Some thoughts for cold callers...

44 replies
Two hours per day on the phone is insignificant, but two sales per week is pretty significant.


Remember , you may have heard yourself pitch 50 times in a row, but this is the first time that the next guy you call has ever heard it. Give him your best and treat every call like it was your first of the day.


Go easy on people, and go easy on yourself. There is no need to worry, just dial the numbers and be nice, the absolute laws will bring you sales.


"I will first learn the law of numbers, Then I will learn to bend it to my bend to my good" - Og Mandino


Go easy on yourself, telemarketing works if you work it. Stay on the phone. It's only two hours. Don't panic. The law of numbers is absolute. Learn it by experiencing it for yourself, and then learn to bend it to your will. You CANNOT fail.


-JD
#callers #cold #thoughts
  • Profile picture of the author sandalwood
    Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

    Two hours per day on the phone is insignificant, but two sales per week is pretty significant.


    Remember , you may have heard yourself pitch 50 times in a row, but this is the first time the next guy you call ever heard it. Give him your best and treat every call like it was your first of the day.


    Go easy on people, and go easy on yourself. There is no need to worry, just dial the numbers and be nice, the absolute laws will bring you sales.


    "I will first learn the law of numbers, Then I will learn to bend it to my bend to my good" - Og Mandino


    Go easy on yourself, telemarketing works if you work it. Stay on the phone. It's only two hours. Don't panic. The law of numbers is absolute. Learn it by experiencing it for yourself, and then learn to bend it to your will. You CANNOT fail.


    -JD
    John,

    I expect you will hear from the anti cold call crowd but for those of us who actually cold call both in person and on the phone, what you wrote is pure gold.

    You cannot escape the law of numbers. The next guy has no idea you've talked with 20 other people or what you said. I've said this before but what the hell I'll say it again. I used the phone book to cold call people when I was a stock broker. That should get some loud laughs. Went from 0 clients to 333 saying the same thing over and over and over. It took me one year but the income - this was in the 80s - was what some people use today to entice people to buy their WSOs.

    Funny how that works if you work it.
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by sandalwood View Post

      I used the phone book to cold call people when I was a stock broker. That should get some loud laughs
      Went from 0 clients to 333 saying the same thing over and over and over
      .

      It's the call center owners who make a million dollars per year for twenty years straight, by saying the same thing over and over who laugh last.


      Millions of dollars can be made solely based upon a single proper turn of phrase. I'm glad you shared this. Thank you. Hopefully someone will reread your post about 3-4 times and "get" it.


      It doesn't have to be complicated. Find something to say that works, and then just say nothing but that.


      As American Muscle TA pointed out, "it's easier to find a new audience than to make a new speech". There are plenty of numbers. No shortage.


      As you go along, you will learn to make the law of numbers bend to your will. In the interim it will get you sales.
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  • Profile picture of the author AmericanMuscleTA
    Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

    Remember , you may have heard yourself pitch 50 times in a row, but this is the first time the next guy you call ever heard it. Give him your best and treat every call like it was your first of the day.

    This reminds me of what Dan Kennedy said, "It's easier to find a new audience than write a new speech."
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    • Profile picture of the author Coqui Colunge
      Originally Posted by AmericanMuscleTA View Post

      This reminds me of what Dan Kennedy said, "It's easier to find a new audience than write a new speech."
      what a Master phrase! Dan Kennedy... one of the best!
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  • Profile picture of the author Defacto
    I think you have to have a certain personality for cold calling. I absolutely hate it so no matter how effective I know it is, I won't do it. I use PPC (adwords,bing,facebook) both mobile and desktop along with some targeted emailing to get prospects to call me.
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    • Profile picture of the author Freebiequeen1999
      Originally Posted by Defacto View Post

      I think you have to have a certain personality for cold calling. I absolutely hate it so no matter how effective I know it is, I won't do it. I use PPC (adwords,bing,facebook) both mobile and desktop along with some targeted emailing to get prospects to call me.

      Hmmm....I don't like paying for ppc....

      although I can manage a ppc campaign for others, I don't like it

      so maybe I should put a link in my sig to some cold call report I can sell and then I can go troll around the ppc forums and let them know I don't like ppc and oh take a looky looky at my sig?

      hahaha
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    • Profile picture of the author Barry Unruh
      Originally Posted by Defacto View Post

      I think you have to have a certain personality for cold calling. I absolutely hate it so no matter how effective I know it is, I won't do it. I use PPC (adwords,bing,facebook) both mobile and desktop along with some targeted emailing to get prospects to call me.
      I can empathize with your point.

      The only problem is how many small business owners abhor wasting time online.

      They want the benefits of getting new business, or finding new services, but mechanics, dentists, liquor store owners, beauticians, and many other business owners rarely check email, do not like searching for services, and prefer the personal touch.

      I'm not a fan of cold calling, either...But it does work.
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  • Profile picture of the author WilloxPerez
    This is a great lesson for not just cold calling and that is the true value of this post.

    #1 Law of Numbers is Supreme
    #2 Consistency

    These 2 principles can be applied in anything you do that is an effective action to accomplishing a goal you have. Understand that with the law of numbers you will eventually start piling up sales/ leads etc. as long as you are consistent and stick to it.

    The hardest part regarding seeing the benefit of the law of numbers is staying consistent. I have done it myself, making a commitment only to let negative thoughts of doubt stop me thinking it just wasn't working.

    Being able to do something even when you are not in the mood to do it is critical to building that action/process into a consistent habit. -> This is what I am currently working on mastering =-D
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    • Profile picture of the author Freebiequeen1999
      Originally Posted by WilloxPerez View Post

      This is a great lesson for not just cold calling and that is the true value of this post.

      #1 Law of Numbers is Supreme
      #2 Consistency

      These 2 principles can be applied in anything you do that is an effective action to accomplishing a goal you have. Understand that with the law of numbers you will eventually start piling up sales/ leads etc. as long as you are consistent and stick to it.

      The hardest part regarding seeing the benefit of the law of numbers is staying consistent. I have done it myself, making a commitment only to let negative thoughts of doubt stop me thinking it just wasn't working.

      Being able to do something even when you are not in the mood to do it is critical to building that action/process into a consistent habit. -> This is what I am currently working on mastering =-D
      The hard part around here seems to be people who jump and run for any new "plan" promising them instant riches haha

      Old Japanese saying = something like "fall down 10 times get up 11"

      People don't stick to what they know and some of them don't seem to know much

      They run from "system" to system and "niche" to niche etc...and don't give it a chance
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      • Profile picture of the author sdingram
        Thanks for posting this. What a great reminder. I have been thinking "How am I going to reach 4 more people for this book project I'm working on?" I was seriously coming up with all kinds of complicated ideas. Jeesh! I will pick up the phone tomorrow.

        Thanks!!
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        • Profile picture of the author scottdrv
          Originally Posted by sdingram View Post

          Thanks for posting this. What a great reminder. I have been thinking "How am I going to reach 4 more people for this book project I'm working on?" I was seriously coming up with all kinds of complicated ideas. Jeesh! I will pick up the phone tomorrow.

          Thanks!!
          Did it work? How many calls did you make?

          "Don't put off until tomorrow what you can do today."

          ― Benjamin Franklin
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  • Profile picture of the author winnerman
    Hi John if you could help me in recommending outbound sales remuneration strucutre I would really appreciate http://www.warriorforum.com/offline-...structure.html
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  • Profile picture of the author Nikkijuharris
    Hi John,

    First I just want to thank you, I discovered this forum while searching for ways to make money fast when you're pressed for time. As I get ready to make the phone calls, one thing I realize I'm most afraid of is not feeling confident about what I'm offering. I have no experience in creating websites, seo, graphic design and such but I do understand the concept of selling a service and outsourcing it.

    I guess I'm just curious about what happens when a possible client wants to see my previous work and I have none to show. I imagine some clients want to see previous work before writing a check because there are so many scams out there.

    Also in your report you said something that really stood out to me, you said "At any given time I have 7 different directions I can go if I need to earn some quick cash. After awhile opportunity begins to come easily and frequently, if you practice “Action”. It stood out to me because I also want to know that at any given time I have a abundance of options if push ever came to shove.

    If you don't mind sharing some other ways for people are aren't as tech savvy as others ways to bring in a income.

    Thanks again! You are awesome
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by Nikkijuharris View Post

      Hi John,

      First I just want to thank you, I discovered this forum while searching for ways to make money fast when you're pressed for time. As I get ready to make the phone calls, one thing I realize I'm most afraid of is not feeling confident about what I'm offering. I have no experience in creating websites, seo, graphic design and such but I do understand the concept of selling a service and outsourcing it.

      I guess I'm just curious about what happens when a possible client wants to see my previous work and I have none to show. I imagine some clients want to see previous work before writing a check because there are so many scams out there.
      You have identified the true problem with most would be cold callers. I learned this long ago. They arent afraid of the people who say "Not interested", they are more afraid of someone saying they are interested, and then not knowing how to react or conversate.

      In the case you described it may be better to sell for someone else who has a solid offer that you feel confident in. Almost any web designer on this forum will JV with you, if you want to make some money selling for them.
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  • Profile picture of the author sdingram
    Nikki,
    What report are you referring to?
    John, do you have some training I could access?
    Thanks!
    Sdingram
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    • Profile picture of the author Nikkijuharris
      Originally Posted by sdingram View Post

      Nikki,
      What report are you referring to?
      John, do you have some training I could access?
      Thanks!
      Sdingram
      Hey it's titled
      " The Great Offline Telemarketing Report:
      "How you can make $500 - $1,500. , or more This Week in 'Offline Cash' starting NOW"!

      You can find it on one of the threads here or by googling it! It's pretty awesome!
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    • Originally Posted by sdingram View Post

      Nikki,
      What report are you referring to?
      John, do you have some training I could access?
      Thanks!
      Sdingram
      yeah the the great telemarketing report JD is giving away will help you a lot. and is free
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  • Profile picture of the author dgmufasa
    When calling potential clients, a reason they could say "no" is because the message did not resonate with them - or worse yet - it is not effective enough.

    So, with the law of numbers, the idea is that a message (whether effective or not) should resonate with ~somebody~??

    Just trying to understand at what point do "you just tweak the message" vs just plodding away with the same one? How do you know if the reason you are getting turned down is because you need to do more "tweaking" vs just continuing to plod along in the hope that ~someone~ will like it?
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    • Profile picture of the author Michael Nguyen
      Originally Posted by dgmufasa View Post

      When calling potential clients, a reason they could say "no" is because the message did not resonate with them - or worse yet - it is not effective enough.

      So, with the law of numbers, the idea is that a message (whether effective or not) should resonate with ~somebody~??

      Just trying to understand at what point do "you just tweak the message" vs just plodding away with the same one? How do you know if the reason you are getting turned down is because you need to do more "tweaking" vs just continuing to plod along in the hope that ~someone~ will like it?
      Great question

      You simply test.

      Here are the other factors that can affect the message:

      Is your energy up
      Is your question engaging and does it it a financial/health implication
      Have you stopped them in their tracks and gained the full attention?
      Did you handle their objection?

      The above may seem difficult if you don't even know what to took for so the last resort as many have said is sheer volume of calls which will let you know if the message is good.
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  • Profile picture of the author SugaryShane
    Hi, Does anyone know where I can get a good script for selling web design packages?
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    • Profile picture of the author SalesGod
      Hey sugaryshane I actually design scripts and sales material for company's on a daily basis. I produced a script for home solar that is currently making a company 6 million a month in New sales. I wouldn't mind helping out.
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  • Profile picture of the author massiveray
    Yezzir, I'm terrible on the phone but learned very early on that just putting the numbers in and being a normal conversational person with a good offer gets consistent results.

    Even though I try to avoid the phone as much as possible, I have no doubt that if I went out of business tomorrow, I could buy a list of numbers and make some sales.

    Also all of the versions of the great telemarketing report are very good reads.
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  • Profile picture of the author Joe Stewart
    Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

    Two hours per day on the phone is insignificant, but two sales per week is pretty significant.


    Remember , you may have heard yourself pitch 50 times in a row, but this is the first time the next guy you call ever heard it. Give him your best and treat every call like it was your first of the day.


    Go easy on people, and go easy on yourself. There is no need to worry, just dial the numbers and be nice, the absolute laws will bring you sales.


    "I will first learn the law of numbers, Then I will learn to bend it to my bend to my good" - Og Mandino


    Go easy on yourself, telemarketing works if you work it. Stay on the phone. It's only two hours. Don't panic. The law of numbers is absolute. Learn it by experiencing it for yourself, and then learn to bend it to your will. You CANNOT fail.


    -JD

    John,

    I just read your report in one sitting and I must say that it's fantastic. I've been in this "game" for many years, too, but have been suffering from burnout recently and gradually trying to change direction.

    The way you lay out the simple script is very similar to what I used to do myself when cold calling, but somehow I got away from that. I recall my old boss who used to say "if you ever start to struggle or hit a slump, go back to the original script and use it for a few days. You'll soon realize where you veered off course."

    Once again, excellent report! The link to it is below for anyone else who'd like to read it.

    Regards,

    Joe


    http://www.warriorforum.com/offline-...ml#post5084540
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  • Profile picture of the author Underground
    Two sales in a week is a joke for many businesses. Most will barely make a living doing that. There's a free case study from Jason Kanigan with a client who helped to make over 200 sales in week through automating the process of selling.

    People here might not have their own list of 50,000 people to whittle down to the top 2000 odd ideal prospects, but anyone who can make two sales a week by phone could certainly set up some deals that gives them access to someone else's list and greatly leverage their results with a similar launch funnel, with the right creativity and offer.

    One to one selling and hoping for 1 or 2 sales after a week of serious calling is a ridiculous return.
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    • Profile picture of the author savidge4
      WOW really.. people that come here in general DONT have a LIST.. they DONT have any JV leverage what so ever.. 2 sales in a week is AWESOME!!

      Its all about perspective man PERSPECTIVE
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      • Profile picture of the author Underground
        Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

        WOW really.. people that come here in general DONT have a LIST.. they DONT have any JV leverage what so ever.. 2 sales in a week is AWESOME!!

        Its all about perspective man PERSPECTIVE
        This reply is just irrational on so many levels. It's bordering on the insane. 200 in a week versus 2? Lost for words here right now.

        You really think it's easier to spend a week cold calling hundreds of people who don't know you, who have no idea who you are to give you money, and to try to make two sales than it is to craft a highly compelling approach to sell the idea of your services and how they can benefit a complementary businesses' user base and offer them a highly attractive proposition like something free or a profit share or some other incentive (you shouldn't be in marketing and sales if you don't know how to craft compelling propositions anyway)?

        Even if you find 2 people with large email lists and networks serving your target market, you could reach and automate your selling to 1000's of people.

        What is the matter with you Savidge? Seriously?

        Yes, it's all about perspective. The wrong one will have you thinking 2 sales in a week is better than engineering a situation where hitting 200 in a week is achievable. Who in their right mind would prefer 2 sales in a week over at least 10x that?
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        • Profile picture of the author savidge4
          Say I just started a business I am going to do SEO.. never really done it before except for my sites and my moms... I have NO leverage... I am not going to be able to walk in and have any leverage in working a deal with someone that has a mailing list of 1000's. Much less even really know who might have such a list.

          REALITY.. you get on the phone you make it happen you build the hard way.. and with this process you DEVELOP leverage.. you then open up further possibilities.

          you have to START somewhere.. and to say go out and broker a deal before you have ever landed client #1 is IRRATIONAL

          again PERSPECTIVE




          Originally Posted by Underground View Post

          This reply is just irrational on so many levels. It's bordering on the insane. 200 in a week versus 2? Lost for words here right now.

          You really think it's easier to spend a week cold calling hundreds of people who don't know you, who have no idea who you are to give you money, and to try to make two sales than it is to craft a highly compelling approach to sell the idea of your services and how they can benefit a complementary businesses' user base and offer them a highly attractive proposition like something free or a profit share or some other incentive (you shouldn't be in marketing and sales if you don't know how to craft compelling propositions anyway)?

          Even if you find 2 people with large email lists and networks serving your target market, you could reach and automate your selling to 1000's of people.

          What is the matter with you Savidge? Seriously?

          Yes, it's all about perspective. The wrong one will have you thinking 2 sales in a week is better than engineering a situation where hitting 200 in a week is achievable. Who in their right mind would prefer 2 sales in a week over at least 10x that?
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          • Profile picture of the author Underground
            Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

            Say I just started a business I am going to do SEO.. never really done it before except for my sites and my moms... I have NO leverage... I am not going to be able to walk in and have any leverage in working a deal with someone that has a mailing list of 1000's. Much less even really know who might have such a list.

            REALITY.. you get on the phone you make it happen you build the hard way.. and with this process you DEVELOP leverage.. you then open up further possibilities.

            you have to START somewhere.. and to say go out and broker a deal before you have ever landed client #1 is IRRATIONAL

            again PERSPECTIVE

            You're full of it as always. Particularly with THESE CAPITALISED INFLECTIONS to try to make your point.

            If you would have read my first post in a sensible way, I said if you had the right creativity or offer. Many gormless people just do not have the mindset to get around a problem and find a solution. They instantly dismiss proper concepts and strategies because of that.

            In other words, assuming creativity and a good offer, you have to be smart and craft something, like Jason did for his client.

            If you're picking SEO, then you have no leverage in either case. If you have results from yours and your mom's site, then you could scrape the bottom of the barrel and go and try and use that for leverage, but people have no business selling skilled services if they don't have the skills. Selling shit, I guess you can be happy with two sales a week and selling on a proper scale is not for you.

            But for SEO, you find a method of ranking fast, like with Youtube live events, where you can create an event and get an almost instance place holder that will show you where you video will rank once you upload it. Do this with a few keywords and you'll know which one is going to rank on the first page right away.

            So, you use the right tools to find influencers and people will large email lists and networks, and you approach them on the basis of doing some free SEO on the basis that if you get them ranked and prove your concept they'll agree to share you with their list.

            This is basic business development. It's well worth doing. More people are going to go for that proposition than giving some amateur 500 a month for seo who's only ever done it on their Mum's site.

            You're extraordinary Savidge, the way you take offence and argue against logical things that actually work in the real world.

            Kanigan's is one of a whole slew of product launche successes. Every top marketing you know in this space uses them as the first port of call to sell a new service.

            It's people docile mindset that stops them using similar principles right away when they come to selling a product.

            I detest even answering your nonsense on stuff like this. I'm really trying to help other to shift their perspective to think bigger and get better results, and you seem to really be bugged out by highly leveraged methods and argue against them for some reason.
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            • Profile picture of the author savidge4
              Originally Posted by Underground View Post

              I detest even answering your nonsense on stuff like this. I'm really trying to help other to shift their perspective to think bigger and get better results, and you seem to really be bugged out by highly leveraged methods and argue against them for some reason.
              That's the point.. I am as you, pointing out that they ARE "leveraged" and to those just starting... they have to work up to it. Leverage is developed.. through experience or by creative means ( whatever that is )

              You can walk into a potential JV and say "Bob, hey I have been getting X results for a few clients.. what do you say we work out a deal so I can do this for your clients as well? or you can say "Bill, I don't know shat for nothing, never done it before, but Id like to offer my services to your clients.. tell you what, my wife makes a mean angel food cake.. I will have her make you 1 a week for the next 3 months if you can make this happen."
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              • Profile picture of the author savidge4
                Look at the 4 most recent threads I found above and then look at this statement you made:

                "If you're picking SEO, then you have no leverage in either case. If you have results from yours and your mom's site, then you could scrape the bottom of the barrel and go and try and use that for leverage, but people have no business selling skilled services if they don't have the skills. Selling shit, I guess you can be happy with two sales a week and selling on a proper scale is not for you."

                THIS forum... people looking for advice? you summed it up very nicely actually.. "Selling shit"

                But then you say there is a better way? Sure there is... but for the "Selling shit" people that have no business selling what they are trying to... let them get on the damn phone, fail in 5 days or less and get them back into a day job like they are ment to have and be on their way.

                That's the thing with this forum in general. There are those that know nothing to little and are seeking advice, and there are those that do use more developed and complicated methods that try to assist those just starting.

                I am working on a project right now that has a mailing list of 200K + selling a service in the $3000 to $10000 buy in range that has re-occurring back end income. I could lay out the whole funnel.. but is that going to help those just starting? no.. its going to confuse the day lights out of em.

                I will say it again... start your business.. get some clients under your belt.. have a base of results... that becomes the leverage needed to get into deals as you suggest. you don't start there.. you work to get there. and since this is an offline forum.. the general most basic method to getting there is getting on the phone.

                Granted.. not such an option for those that are reading from the UK. you simply cant go and make calls like we can in the States. But most of the folks I know in the UK that have started a small business and grew.. started locally hit the pavement and shook hands and did what they had to do. in the process they developed their network of contacts and grew from there.

                Regardless the beginning method.. the whole thing is a progression. start with 1 on 1 communication and grow from there. Honestly that is the way business has been done and will continue to be done.

                Did Kanigan start with Mailing lists and JV's? I can point you to a recent post that would suggest NO he did not.. he started on the PHONE. I will bet within the last 5 days Kanigan has been on the phone making a cold call or 2. There is a time and a place for each and every method of communication there is no one better than the other.. there is however one better than another based on circumstance and desired outcome.
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                • Profile picture of the author Jason Kanigan
                  Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

                  Look at the 4 most recent threads I found above and then look at this statement you made:

                  "If you're picking SEO, then you have no leverage in either case. If you have results from yours and your mom's site, then you could scrape the bottom of the barrel and go and try and use that for leverage, but people have no business selling skilled services if they don't have the skills. Selling shit, I guess you can be happy with two sales a week and selling on a proper scale is not for you."

                  THIS forum... people looking for advice? you summed it up very nicely actually.. "Selling shit"

                  But then you say there is a better way? Sure there is... but for the "Selling shit" people that have no business selling what they are trying to... let them get on the damn phone, fail in 5 days or less and get them back into a day job like they are ment to have and be on their way.

                  That's the thing with this forum in general. There are those that know nothing to little and are seeking advice, and there are those that do use more developed and complicated methods that try to assist those just starting.

                  I am working on a project right now that has a mailing list of 200K + selling a service in the $3000 to $10000 buy in range that has re-occurring back end income. I could lay out the whole funnel.. but is that going to help those just starting? no.. its going to confuse the day lights out of em.

                  I will say it again... start your business.. get some clients under your belt.. have a base of results... that becomes the leverage needed to get into deals as you suggest. you don't start there.. you work to get there. and since this is an offline forum.. the general most basic method to getting there is getting on the phone.

                  Granted.. not such an option for those that are reading from the UK. you simply cant go and make calls like we can in the States. But most of the folks I know in the UK that have started a small business and grew.. started locally hit the pavement and shook hands and did what they had to do. in the process they developed their network of contacts and grew from there.

                  Regardless the beginning method.. the whole thing is a progression. start with 1 on 1 communication and grow from there. Honestly that is the way business has been done and will continue to be done.

                  Did Kanigan start with Mailing lists and JV's? I can point you to a recent post that would suggest NO he did not.. he started on the PHONE. I will bet within the last 5 days Kanigan has been on the phone making a cold call or 2. There is a time and a place for each and every method of communication there is no one better than the other.. there is however one better than another based on circumstance and desired outcome.
                  Yeah, I made some calls this week...looking for sponsors for the TV show.

                  Car dealers and jewelers. Got me in to a couple. You can get some info like when the slow times are this way, which they won't advertise on their website.

                  It's nice to have all the marketing collateral for prospects to go through before they speak with you, as that presells them on working with you, but what if you don't have it?

                  I believe the first thing anyone starting a business has to have is KNOWLEDGE of something. Even if it's digging ditches or cleaning bathrooms. That's your competency you build your business and marketing around.

                  As far as my case study goes, I'll share a couple things.

                  First, most of the people who read it are wannabe copywriters trying to find out how it was done. No doubt they'll be stealing the method and writing it up as if it was their own.

                  Second, those who click to fill out the survey...most are scaredy-cats. They don't have anything, no business, no idea...I've seen people say, "I'm working on step #1" and they never get anywhere. They don't BELIEVE they can do it. So they run from the application.

                  The most effective prospects for this are the ones I've deliberately put it in front of...usually by calling them.

                  I really ought to run more and better traffic to it.

                  IDK if you guys know this, but I'm in some high ticket selling groups and the feedback there made me feel a bit better...I thought it was just me, but people are spending $60-100 or so for a completed application and that's following a full webinar.

                  Some time every week, even if it's one hour, ought to be dedicated to phone prospecting because it gives you the chance to reach out to new people who otherwise would never have heard of you.

                  Yes, on average you're only going to connect with 1 in 4 people you dial. But when you do get a conversation, you really stand out...which makes the marketing info following that much more effective. They genuinely want to see it.

                  I don't look for one call closes. If that happens, great, but I don't expect it. The important factor is getting the conversation started effectively. That may sound simple, but it's not and is one of the top two issues I see in salespeople at companies I train. They don't know how to reach decision makers, and start conversations. We all have a brain and a mouth and believe we're experts at these things, but we are not.

                  And sooner or later, if you're any good at what you do, you're going to have to talk to someone--whether it's to negotiate a JV or have an executive hire you. If you don't know how to sell, you're going to be taken advantage of because This Is Business.

                  I believe in having many prospecting methods, inbound and outbound. One isn't better than the other. If you can get prospects to come to you, yes it can be easier because they've gone through your marketing and if you did a good job you're differentiated in their mind before you speak.

                  Both you and Underground are members I respect here. There's more than one road to success. A lot has to do with comfort zone and what an individual is willing to do.

                  Something important that Underground kind of accidentally pointed out was that if you're only shooting for 1-2 sales a week, you need to be selling something that supports your revenue requirements.

                  So don't be betting on some $197 offer. Don't do "foot in the door" because you'll never have enough time or momentum to make it work with the back end offers. You need an offer you keep at least $1000 from...probably more like $2000-5000. Make sure your revenue equation supports your lifestyle.
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          • Profile picture of the author savidge4
            so lets look at some recent threads here...

            http://www.warriorforum.com/offline-...ng-script.html this guy.. yeah he could automate. JV this maybe probably not. but he could be hitting an e-mail campaign with this for sure.

            http://www.warriorforum.com/offline-...sale-fast.html this one.. what the hell can they bring to the table? Obviously just starting up... no clue what they are doing.. needs money right NOW! So it is advised thathe wander the streets looking for a JV opportunity? I would say time better spent trying to close a deal on the phone.

            http://www.warriorforum.com/offline-...e-website.html this guy.. trying to build a better mouse trap. I have respect for the guy.. thinking out of the box.. has a specific target in mind ( many would argue the validity of his target ) but is there a mailing list for people that don't have websites? who exactly would this guy JV with? I might suggest that they look in all of the local print publications that they can, as well as radio websites and tv websites to get a list of advertisers. ( people paying to advertise ) and then one by one see if they have a site.. if they don't I would call.

            http://www.warriorforum.com/offline-...ing-niche.html This one gets a bit interesting... They have experience of sorts... Says they are having issues due to not having a "Portfolio" understandable somewhat... what would the power of 2 to 4 clients do in this case? again it would open up the possibilities to get more in line with a JV type deal... without that tho... would you offer her services to YOUR list? I wouldn't.

            IF you already have a business.. you have had some amount of success. you have a TRACK record.. then yeah JV opportunities have its place. if you are just starting out, im simply not seeing it.
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  • Profile picture of the author Underground
    Jesus Christ. I don't know what it is with you Paul.

    How you get so carried away on emotion and proving some academic point and make a load of ******* noise, spouting of with such certainty and bombast you no doubt convince a lot of people about this kind of nonsense. I know you MO enough to know that first you have some massive, emotive over-reaction to some point, and then will go to the ends of the earth thinking of far far fetched reasons to prove why you are right. Which is all pointless speculation and always arguing against proven things.

    None of them has creativity or a good offer/proposition and don't have the brains or the real world smarts to create a solid product or service if you reckon they are hopeless cases who couldn't get at least two people sold on their strategic alliance. Without that then stick to breaking your back and just scalping a few sales here and there to get by.

    But this premise here stands: If you have something that you can convince someone to buy, you sure as hell can convince someone else that's it's worth sharing that with their list in exchange for a good proposition that genuience benefits them.

    A good proposition here we're talking about. That means a great funnel, a solid product that gets results or there is a market for, and good relationship building and educational content that is trust worthy and legit and the people you contact can feel comfortable recommending to their list.

    This is the growth hacker mindset. Those businesses who use very little but their ingenuity and skill to get massive traction and growth.

    I guess it's rare.

    You're certainly advocating people to think small, be easily held back by unnecessary, self-imposed barriers, and to sell shit, and you can't imagine ways to gain leverage from standing start so try to convince everyone else here not to bother. That's only your own limitation Paul and lack of insight.


    The method I gave to prove the concept of seo, is a good one. A guy called Kotton Grammer who got his SEO firm up to $150,000 had something similar using web 2.0's and social accounts to rank.

    My whole point was to think smarter and find better ways.

    Phone 500 people and try to sell them some service and you might get one of two sales. Do the same thing but selling your JV idea and get two people interested, then you're greatly expediting your success. It's absolutely proven, the product launch thing.

    You're just waffling on based on some assumption it's easy to sell some junk product you have no experience with than it is to sell a couple of influencers on the idea of free service or something they want in exchange for introducing you to their circle if they like what you do.

    Just stop Paul for god sake. You pick arguments for some wild reason and go full pelt. It's pointless.
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  • Profile picture of the author Underground
    If you somehow work out a way to find a service you know nothing about and sell a few of those in a week, then you have sales skills.

    If you have sales skills, you'll know how to create a sellable concept and what's needed for people to be sold (know, like, trust, hot-buttons, common problems, etc).

    Since you know how to create a sellable concept, you much better of approaching and selling people who agree to introduce you and your product/services to hundreds, even thousands of people over night.

    It's that simple. The reason their are so many failures here is because of the terrible advice and mindset that is most often taught to people here.

    Nearly every top-tier method meets fierce resistance here.
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  • Profile picture of the author Underground
    I'm not interested in flowery BS or rhetoric that sounds good.


    This is the real world. You're going on faulty premise and logical fallacies.

    Start 2 people from scratch. One selling on a one to one basis, the other selling on the premise they'll find influencers with lists and approach them with a solid proposition.

    Both have to prove their services and fulfil the contract and do the work. The one who does that for two people who can open up doors is much better set to gain the traction he needs to set up long term success.

    Let's assume it takes just the same to sell 2 people on the idea of introducing you to their list than it is to sell people on buying your service outright. Who's better of at the end of the week?

    The person who has put themselves in a position for further, massive promotion, or the one who has made two sales.


    You're whole argument is based on the assumption that it will be far easier to sell a stranger to buy outright than it is to get a couple of people to buy your idea of further promotion once you've proved yourself.

    You have no evidence for that at all.

    Most people should be taught right from the very beginning how essential it is to use their time and resources in the best possible way. That they aren't here doesn't mean anything other than even the experts and pretenders don't have a clue for the most part.
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    • Profile picture of the author savidge4
      Originally Posted by Underground View Post

      You're whole argument is based on the assumption that it will be far easier to sell a stranger to buy outright than it is to get a couple of people to buy your idea of further promotion once you've proved yourself.

      You have no evidence for that at all.
      How can you say that? Jason Kanigan. he uses his methods he gets results... Kotton Grammer.. for the love of God man.. he had the #1 position for "Tokyo SEO" just because he could..

      The very examples you are providing are the proof and evidence. If they sucked you wouldn't even mention them.

      So lets go a step further.. my current project.. I have an interest in a business that sells medical services to Doctors. My part of the deal is to develop and implement online marketing. I have at this point with the assistance of another partner developed a linkedIn campaign that is reaching out to 100 or so docs a day and we are funneling these through a process of pre-qualification etc to develop a lead list.

      I am using the same method in the form of mass mailings that at this point are not so en-mass ( 100 a day or so) due to the plausible bottle necks that we are incurring with our current process. We are in the process of obtaining and developing solutions to make the lead process more streamline and manageable.

      At the same time we have a team of sales reps out in the field knocking on doors and making phone calls. setting appointments and per-qualifying etc.

      Part of the overall structure in the services we provide is the development of local based care centers. "local" becomes the focus here. our online targeting has to be directed towards a specific market. Our offline ground troops as it were are working in the same area at the same time. We have to in a very short time build and develop a number of leads into clients that share in the Local based care center.

      As we develop leads through these processes, there is passing of non disclosures etc and then there is a meeting set with our principle partners and the group of local based Docs. ( our principle partners travel to each of these meetings )

      It would be great to operate this whole pre-qualification process with the use of online means only.. but here is the rub... we are providing a service. Our service requires that we have a semi local rep in the area once these services are put in motion. Because we have implemented "field reps" we can then use these same people in this manor as service managers after the initial close phase.

      This is where I could go through the whole concept of a 1099 sales rep vs hiring an employee after the fact to fulfill the after setup process... basically it makes more sense to have 1099 reps in place.

      As it stands right now.. reps vs online lead generation.. it stands at about 50 - 50 overall there are some cases of overlap, but surprisingly not as much as one might assume. So the deployment of a 2 branch lead approach is basically multiplying our reach.

      So a real world experience as evidence... Cold calling is reaching a good amount of people my pretty hefty online outreach is not. Could the process be done using either method.. obviously more than likely.. Could it be done in a time frame that is advantages for my companies needs? ehh probably not.. considering the long term need for reps in the field, is this approach the right one for this situation? I would have to say so.

      One is not better than the other. Each have their own strengths and weaknesses. The specific targeting in this instance has been a bit difficult for the e-mail campaign. The overall long term needs of the company is also another variable at play.

      So did I JV to get my list of 200K? yeah you could say that.. has it taken a good amount of time to nurture that list into something that I can ultimately use in the manor that I need to... a lot longer than I thought it would. But I now have a list broken down by state, and in more than a few cases broken all the way down to the city.

      And I think there is a point to be made here... Geography. With the UK being about the size of say California, concepts as above are not as a big an issue. As a marketer in the States I am dealing with 6 times zones not 1. Think about that one for a moment... best times for Facebook marketing - we will just say 10am and 6pm. Those times occur 6 times each for us here in the States.

      We work in a VERY different marketing environment. I have said this before and you scoffed.. but time management becomes an issue that we in the States deal with. It would be great to have a 9 to 5 window to operate in.. depending on our targeting it can be a 9 to 9 day real fast.. and in some cases longer ( I try and not target Hawaii and Alaska in most of my efforts haha )
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      • Profile picture of the author Underground
        Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

        How can you say that? Jason Kanigan. he uses his methods he gets results... Kotton Grammer.. for the love of God man.. he had the #1 position for "Tokyo SEO" just because he could..

        The very examples you are providing are the proof and evidence. If they sucked you wouldn't even mention them.

        So lets go a step further.. my current project.. I have an interest in a business that sells medical services to Doctors. My part of the deal is to develop and implement online marketing. I have at this point with the assistance of another partner developed a linkedIn campaign that is reaching out to 100 or so docs a day and we are funneling these through a process of pre-qualification etc to develop a lead list.

        I am using the same method in the form of mass mailings that at this point are not so en-mass ( 100 a day or so) due to the plausible bottle necks that we are incurring with our current process. We are in the process of obtaining and developing solutions to make the lead process more streamline and manageable.

        At the same time we have a team of sales reps out in the field knocking on doors and making phone calls. setting appointments and per-qualifying etc.

        Part of the overall structure in the services we provide is the development of local based care centers. "local" becomes the focus here. our online targeting has to be directed towards a specific market. Our offline ground troops as it were are working in the same area at the same time. We have to in a very short time build and develop a number of leads into clients that share in the Local based care center.

        As we develop leads through these processes, there is passing of non disclosures etc and then there is a meeting set with our principle partners and the group of local based Docs. ( our principle partners travel to each of these meetings )

        It would be great to operate this whole pre-qualification process with the use of online means only.. but here is the rub... we are providing a service. Our service requires that we have a semi local rep in the area once these services are put in motion. Because we have implemented "field reps" we can then use these same people in this manor as service managers after the initial close phase.

        This is where I could go through the whole concept of a 1099 sales rep vs hiring an employee after the fact to fulfill the after setup process... basically it makes more sense to have 1099 reps in place.

        As it stands right now.. reps vs online lead generation.. it stands at about 50 - 50 overall there are some cases of overlap, but surprisingly not as much as one might assume. So the deployment of a 2 branch lead approach is basically multiplying our reach.

        So a real world experience as evidence... Cold calling is reaching a good amount of people my pretty hefty online outreach is not. Could the process be done using either method.. obviously more than likely.. Could it be done in a time frame that is advantages for my companies needs? ehh probably not.. considering the long term need for reps in the field, is this approach the right one for this situation? I would have to say so.

        One is not better than the other. Each have their own strengths and weaknesses. The specific targeting in this instance has been a bit difficult for the e-mail campaign. The overall long term needs of the company is also another variable at play.

        So did I JV to get my list of 200K? yeah you could say that.. has it taken a good amount of time to nurture that list into something that I can ultimately use in the manor that I need to... a lot longer than I thought it would. But I now have a list broken down by state, and in more than a few cases broken all the way down to the city.

        And I think there is a point to be made here... Geography. With the UK being about the size of say California, concepts as above are not as a big an issue. As a marketer in the States I am dealing with 6 times zones not 1. Think about that one for a moment... best times for Facebook marketing - we will just say 10am and 6pm. Those times occur 6 times each for us here in the States.

        We work in a VERY different marketing environment. I have said this before and you scoffed.. but time management becomes an issue that we in the States deal with. It would be great to have a 9 to 5 window to operate in.. depending on our targeting it can be a 9 to 9 day real fast.. and in some cases longer ( I try and not target Hawaii and Alaska in most of my efforts haha )

        Please, anyone on the sidelines, do not take this guy seriously on this. He's a serial liar who will say anything to defend his point, not matter how flawed his position is. I don't point this out for malice but because it's perfectly possible for someone to hustle up a couple of opportunities to blow their sales and lead generation results sky high in today's day and age with the social web, email and automating large parts of the sales process, and people who talk people away from those methods and detract them from that in favour of methods that you're lucky to get 2 sales in a week have no idea just how ignorant they are about how severely they are (unintentionally) misguiding people.



        It's a given you must have something worthwhile to sell that can get the client of customer what they want. When you do, you're going to need to learn to sell and promote that. You better quickly learn to get something together or replicate someone like Kotton Grammer if what you currently offer is complete junk. It's not that hard, everyone can and should learn.

        Getting on the phone is essential, but make sure your aiming to set yourself up for the maximum return by acting smarter.

        Do not become one of the many here who jump on the bad advice, make hundreds of calls, and never meet real success.

        It's up to you to find and research market, create offers and services based on what that market want, and then constantly learn the best ways to reach that market.
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  • Profile picture of the author Underground
    Every time you throw out these fabricated figures as well about how much money you're making or have made, but somehow the 'little people' should be taught that 2 sales a week is awesome, you should be teaching them how to make big money like you.

    Yes, teaching people foundational skills that are very easy to grasp right from the outset, instead of filling their head with junk and stupid out-dated methods that only the most redundant and failed business people are still clinging to and getting mediocre results with that set them back years.

    How fast can a beginner be taught how to best sell and promote their new service and business? A few weeks with the right templates and guidance if you stripped away the rest of unhelpful 90% they're fed consistently.

    How long do they waste going from failure to failure because they've been taught to get on the phone all day every day and be happy with a few sales at the end of the week but which never propel to the kind of growth and success that would really make a massive difference in their life?

    A beginner could read Jason's study, follow the 5 steps, get some training or outsource funnel creation, and then be contact and selling people like Jason client with a good list ripe for mining, in weeks.

    It's just the backwards way of the WF, that the simple fundamentals seem like they are 'advanced and complex'. They're not. People are just feed so much mis-info and mis-education here is prevents them from being able to be focused and avoid being misguided.
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  • Profile picture of the author Underground
    For a leveraged method a person can start right away, that has great scripts and reasons to contact businesses, I'd get the Content Domination platform and course. It's so very possible to start with nothing other than a solid service or idea and good sales and marketing material, and greatly expand the number of people who know about you to many thousands of people in couple of days. It's work of course, and you need just as much commitment to set up as any other method, but once it is it's leveraging technology and the way people have become conditioned to buying today to greatly amplify your efforts and results.


    I speak from someone with experience of the soul destroying unprofitable path to trying to make it in offline with the same services that are the standard recommended services to offer here and using the one to one methods most often taught by default. Unless you're in the £2500 and up mark and 2 sales a week is fine and because you're a serial low-baller with next to no ambition who would rather coast along picking up a few deals here and there, you'd surely prefer to be able to create such massive demand and exposure for your business with the right audience, you could quickly book yourself to capacity with leads and get the cash injection and cash flow needed to seriously grow and expand your business while making it far easier to generate leads and enquiries.


    The people who think 2 sales a week at £500 or less constitutes a successful business has never really got to a profession stage where they took their business seriously and did the numbers for real. And will never get wealthy till they change their mindset and start thinking realistically.

    Something like course like Content Domination, that teaches sound methods for how to find and approach partners for contests and give aways so you can reach their lists and quickly grow you email base is something beginners could do easily is a far better use of their time than one to one prospecting.
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    • Profile picture of the author marketingstatic
      Originally Posted by Underground View Post

      For a leveraged method a person can start right away, that has great scripts and reasons to contact businesses, I'd get the Content Domination platform and course. It's so very possible to start with nothing other than a solid service or idea and good sales and marketing material, and greatly expand the number of people who know about you to many thousands of people in couple of days. It's work of course, and you need just as much commitment to set up as any other method, but once it is it's leveraging technology and the way people have become conditioned to buying today to greatly amplify your efforts and results.


      I speak from someone with experience of the soul destroying unprofitable path to trying to make it in offline with the same services that are the standard recommended services to offer here and using the one to one methods most often taught by default. Unless you're in the £2500 and up mark and 2 sales a week is fine and because you're a serial low-baller with next to no ambition who would rather coast along picking up a few deals here and there, you'd surely prefer to be able to create such massive demand and exposure for your business with the right audience, you could quickly book yourself to capacity with leads and get the cash injection and cash flow needed to seriously grow and expand your business while making it far easier to generate leads and enquiries.


      The people who think 2 sales a week at £500 or less constitutes a successful business has never really got to a profession stage where they took their business seriously and did the numbers for real. And will never get wealthy till they change their mindset and start thinking realistically.

      Something like course like Content Domination, that teaches sound methods for how to find and approach partners for contests and give aways so you can reach their lists and quickly grow you email base is something beginners could do easily is a far better use of their time than one to one prospecting.
      funny you mention this I did mention one way I did something I think your eluding too here in another post but was just about to create on asking what are some of the better people and or services you have found are a good match lets say if I offer video marketing for example to JV with and how do you find the best people are you vetting them in any way?
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  • Profile picture of the author steve2036
    Cold Calling is something I can definitely attest to, and have built a business generating a majority of our revenue fueled by cold calling generating leads for service based businesses. Cold calling is something that is certainly effective and cost effective but is something hardly anyone wants to do. So they hire me to do it for them so they can focus on actually talking to people only interested in what they have to offer. So I am making money from cold calling!
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    • Profile picture of the author Michael Nguyen
      Originally Posted by steve2036 View Post

      Cold Calling is something I can definitely attest to, and have built a business generating a majority of our revenue fueled by cold calling generating leads for service based businesses. Cold calling is something that is certainly effective and cost effective but is something hardly anyone wants to do. So they hire me to do it for them so they can focus on actually talking to people only interested in what they have to offer. So I am making money from cold calling!
      You gotta be a beast to kill it at cold calling. I've set two appointments already and a ton more new leads in the pipeline. So full I can't even get to them all.
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      • Profile picture of the author John Durham
        Originally Posted by Michael Nguyen View Post

        You gotta be a beast to kill it at cold calling. I've set two appointments already and a ton more new leads in the pipeline. So full I can't even get to them all.
        Here is some excellent advice on cold calling that you can apply to anything you sell. This guy lays it out like it is.

        Really.

        (Not An Affiliate Link)

        The 500 day war (for rookies) | WealthManagement.com

        Notice Im not linking you back to one of my own threads. Self promotion is not the purpose here. Although I would have no problem linking to one of my own threads if it were helpful and relevant. I cant think of another article more relevant to what you just said, though. This guy nails it!

        His article is for Investment Bankers I believe, but it can apply to anything. Just adjust the numbers to your price point...

        Actually, here is the meat of the article (Below) Url Citation obviously above:

        - Speak to 25,000 people via telephone; business owners and corporate directories only. It will amount to 2500 leads and 250 new accounts (households). Average account should be 100k; that's 25 million @ 1% paying you 250k gross on an annual basis.
        - Make an effort to open all accounts over the phone; discourage appointments (we'll revisit this theory later on) unless it is high 6 figures or a million dollar prospect. Takes too much time. With the travel, meeting time, etc; we are solely focusing on the numbers here. Eventually you'll meet with them AFTER they become clients.
        - Purchase a laptop for your contact management; have this in front of you at all times and place the firm workstation BEHIND you. Too distracting and you will rarely need it anyway in the first two years.
        - Have all of the compliance approved marketing material as well as new account/ACAT documents available via email to send to prospects. Make every effort to utilize this at all times to speed up the process.
        - On a monthly basis, send a blast email as well as a paper-based copy of some idea/market related info to all of your prospects. This is to be done on Saturday unless you can afford to hire someone to do it for you.
        - If there is no "sale" on the first follow up call, make every effort to (politely) try and disqualify them. This is done to prevent clogging up the pipeline with nice people who are (in reality) not interest or not qualified. Or both.
        - Don't consider spending any of your time on seminars, networking, wholesalers. Too much time/effort with unpredictable results. These activities can be initiated after you've survived and have built a base to build on.
        - Make 3 cold calls for every follow up call during the day. It insures you are always talking to new people and not getting comfortable/lazy speaking only with existing prospects who will likely treat you in a kinder manner.
        - Don't solicit or accept friend or family accounts. In addition, politely let them know that you are not to be called at work before 6 pm unless there is an emergency. No time for idle chit/chat and friendly calls often turn into long conversations. Keep up contact evenings/weekends.
        - Plan the next day (in particular you call list) before you leave. 30 minutes after arriving to work you should be on the phone.
        - Do not take active traders for clients, especially fee-based traders. Takes too much time and interferes with prospecting.
        - Ask every prospect if it would be ok to call them on Saturdays; great day to call/reach people in a relaxed state; this is the only time I would call home #'s and only after they've given you permission.
        - Use regular mail and email to keep your name in front of prospects on a regular basis. However, ALL outgoing phone calls should be dedicated to asking for orders.
        - During the week, gather all research/articles/etc and put it in a pile; this is to be read on Sunday when you have time, and not interfering with prospecting efforts.
        - Keep diligent notes on conversations with prospects; quickly peruse them before following up and mention previous things they've said. Sets you apart and will impress any prospect.
        - Promote referrals immediately after the first sale is made. Something along the lines of sending them an additional brochure for someone they may know. Do not ask for specific names, simply let them know you would appreciate any introductions.
        - Be the first to arrive and generally the last to leave. Do not socialize with fellow brokers as they want you to fail. Bust your tail and impress them via your work ethic and results. You are the only one who decides your paycheck.
        - Find a city that you would like to visit often, preferably on the opposite coast (different time zone). Spend 1-2 hours calling this area every day. If you are on the East Coast and calling SF, this can be done in the evening (your time) while it's still afternoon out there. Conversely, West Coast people can be calling east at 6 am.
        - Keep a daily scorecard and be diligent tracking activity/results. Set ambitious (yet reasonable) goals and exceed them. Time management is crucial; waste one hour a day and you have just wasted 25 working days a year. Yeah, it's that much.
        - Assume everyone has caller ID and always leave messages for existing prospects; no messages on cold calls. Leave one message a week for a prospect. And when you get a new prospect, ask them what time and what # they prefer to be contacted.
        - Work for today but keep tomorrow in mind. Try and build a business that is primarily fee-based/recurring revenue. It's a great feeling to come into year 3 with 250k already "done" and to see dividends for years to come as a result of the 500 day war.
        So there's a start and I'll try and add more as I think of them. In addition, I'll post some ideas on what a broker in their 3rd year should start considering doing to grow the business.


        Edit:

        Nobody can say it better than that!

        -John
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Originally Posted by sdingram View Post

    John, do you have some training I could access?
    Thanks!
    Sdingram
    Unfortunately not anything recent , however I have an old report, from 2010 I believe , in the War Room called "The Great Telemarketing War Report" You may find helpful. Many have in the past. Thanks for asking.

    Ps. Sorry for not seeing your post earlier.
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