Problem with customers taking action

35 replies
Hello all,

Not new to the forum, but I have just recently made an account. Got a question and was hoping someone with expertise could help out.

I own a business in which we send a customer something and they have to fill it out and send it back. We're having issues with some customers returning the item, though.

About 60% of them return and the rest don't. I think it could be because they just simply forget or the offer is not incentivised. Can anybody with expertise in marketing provide some advice?

Thank you!

Damon
#action #customers #problem #taking
  • Profile picture of the author agmccall
    Originally Posted by damon015 View Post


    About 60% of them return and the rest don't. I think it could be because they just simply forget or the offer is not incentivised. Can anybody with expertise in marketing provide some advice?

    Thank you!

    Damon
    First off we have no idea what you are talking about. What are you sending? Is it some sort of CPA offer?

    2nd You have a 60% conversion rate, I don't think you could ask for more than that.

    al
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  • Profile picture of the author Isaiah Jackson
    I agree with Al on this one.

    60% conversion rate, isn't that bad.

    Then again we also have no idea what you are sending them so yeah let us know.

    Isaiah
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  • Profile picture of the author michaelswengel
    As the others said, 60% is very good. Remember, you can't make anyone do anything. You can suggest and promote and recommend, but you can't MAKE Subscriber Susan click, buy, download, etc.

    I would be more concerned if you were getting a low conversion rate. But since that isn't the case, I think you're okay.
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    • Profile picture of the author damon015
      Originally Posted by agmccall View Post

      First off we have no idea what you are talking about. What are you sending? Is it some sort of CPA offer?

      2nd You have a 60% conversion rate, I don't think you could ask for more than that.

      al

      Originally Posted by Isaiah Jackson View Post

      I agree with Al on this one.

      60% conversion rate, isn't that bad.

      Then again we also have no idea what you are sending them so yeah let us know.

      Isaiah
      Originally Posted by michaelswengel View Post

      As the others said, 60% is very good. Remember, you can't make anyone do anything. You can suggest and promote and recommend, but you can't MAKE Subscriber Susan click, buy, download, etc.

      I would be more concerned if you were getting a low conversion rate. But since that isn't the case, I think you're okay.
      Guys, we're sending a jewelry return package that they requested on our website. They put their jewelry inside and send it back to us. It's prepaid and costs are covered by us. And I agree, 60% seems good, but our customer acquisition cost is very high. At 60% rate, we're losing money.
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      • Profile picture of the author agmccall
        Originally Posted by damon015 View Post

        Guys, we're sending a jewelry return package that they requested on our website. They put their jewelry inside and send it back to us. It's prepaid and costs are covered by us. And I agree, 60% seems good, but our customer acquisition cost is very high. At 60% rate, we're losing money.
        Then you need a different customer acquisition strategy.

        And now that you tell us what you are doing, basically buying peoples jewelry, I do not think you will get a better return. I have seen this type of business before, in fact, it still shows up on late night tv. People have time to think about what they are doing and probably figure they will not get a real good price for their jewelry so they just say no.

        al
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        • Profile picture of the author damon015
          Originally Posted by agmccall View Post

          Then you need a different customer acquisition strategy.

          And now that you tell us what you are doing, basically buying peoples jewelry, I do not think you will get a better return. I have seen this type of business before, in fact, it still shows up on late night tv. People have time to think about what they are doing and probably figure they will not get a real good price for their jewelry so they just say no.

          al
          Thanks for your input, Al. I think that we do offer a good service and pay above average payments though. We don't have any customer complaints. My question was basically, how do we remind these customers to return their package? With this type of business model, would businesses include like a bonus incentive with an expiry date to create urgency? Or reminder email?

          I agree with you on the fact that many people would not use this service, but I don't think it needs too much thought to decide whether or not you want to send in your jewelry to a website. I would imagine that this would be one of the first things going through a customer's mind.

          We've sent customers reminder emails after a few weeks before, and that noticeably increased return rate. I would just like to know how I can streamline this process, or if there's a more traditional approach.
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  • Profile picture of the author damon015
    Any advice?
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  • Profile picture of the author strawhat
    What is costing you money? That it's prepaid? How about instead of prepaying it, have them print out a shipping label that you email them. I don't know if you pay for that ahead of time or after it's shipped, but if you return things to stores, or sell things like used books, that's what they do. Or maybe that is what you're doing.
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    • Profile picture of the author damon015
      Originally Posted by strawhat View Post

      What is costing you money? That it's prepaid? How about instead of prepaying it, have them print out a shipping label that you email them. I don't know if you pay for that ahead of time or after it's shipped, but if you return things to stores, or sell things like used books, that's what they do. Or maybe that is what you're doing.

      The issue is not even shipping, we're paying a lot of money for Google Adwords. So getting as many customers to return their pack, is crucial. We have an option which allows us to do what you mentioned, but shipping isn't our main expense right now. Not even close.
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  • Profile picture of the author RJKushner
    Is Adwords costing you a lot of money because of the bid price or because of the amount of clicks and conversion rate?

    If it's because of the bid price have you tried looking for other keywords that are low in competition, still a healthy amount of searches a month, and has a low bidding price? If you can find keywords that match this criteria try running ads for them and seeing if you can get comparable conversions.

    If it's because there's too many clicks and not enough conversions it might be an issue that your targeting too broad of an audience. If you haven't already I would try adding in some common negative keywords that might be affecting the conversion rate.
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    • Profile picture of the author damon015
      Originally Posted by RJKushner View Post

      Is Adwords costing you a lot of money because of the bid price or because of the amount of clicks and conversion rate?

      If it's because of the bid price have you tried looking for other keywords that are low in competition, still a healthy amount of searches a month, and has a low bidding price? If you can find keywords that match this criteria try running ads for them and seeing if you can get comparable conversions.

      If it's because there's too many clicks and not enough conversions it might be an issue that your targeting too broad of an audience. If you haven't already I would try adding in some common negative keywords that might be affecting the conversion rate.
      It's a combination of both bid price and not enough conversions for the clicks. We've got a nice list of negative keywords that we're adding to, but the clicks are up to $5 on some keywords. Adds up very quickly. Also, another issue is that the sales process takes a long time, since people take anywhere from 1 week to 2 months to return their items.

      I think if we got most of the kits back, we could manage for now, though. Do you think sending an automated email a month after the person has received the kit would be a good idea? The only reason why I haven't done this yet is because I don't want the email to send to people that may have returned their kit. Any ideas, guys?

      Thanks.
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  • Profile picture of the author damon015
    I would like to set up an autoresponder sequence that will remind all people to send back their pack, regardless if they returned it or not. Is this advisable?
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    • Profile picture of the author cashkid
      Originally Posted by damon015 View Post

      I would like to set up an autoresponder sequence that will remind all people to send back their pack, regardless if they returned it or not. Is this advisable?
      I would fully agree with this. It would be a great way to communicate with your customer and show them you're a real person/company trying to reach out to them. Remind them of the value you are providing them to help remind them why they ordered in the first place.
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      • Profile picture of the author damon015
        Originally Posted by cashkid View Post

        I would fully agree with this. It would be a great way to communicate with your customer and show them you're a real person/company trying to reach out to them. Remind them of the value you are providing them to help remind them why they ordered in the first place.
        Wouldn't it piss off the people that may have returned their pack, though? I could include like a "if you have already returned your pack or put it in the mail, ignore this email please" line or something in the email. Thoughts?

        I could exclude sending the reminder to people that already returned, with an API, because all the packs have tracking, but it would cost too much money.
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    • Profile picture of the author strawhat
      Originally Posted by damon015 View Post

      I would like to set up an autoresponder sequence that will remind all people to send back their pack, regardless if they returned it or not. Is this advisable?
      I would log the ones that did return it and send them a thank you email, and a reminder to the others. I think I would send a reminder to send it back more often than a month later. Maybe remind them about all the nice things they will get if they send it back.

      If it's just one email a month later you could probably get away with a one-size-fits-all if you give a big thanks to everyone, giving a specific message to those who have returned it and another to those who have, so it feels like all the communication has a point for whoever gets it.
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  • Profile picture of the author damon015
    Anyone else care to chime in?
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  • Profile picture of the author damon015
    bump??????
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  • Profile picture of the author umc
    First, why not segment your list between those that sent in their package and those that didn't? That is the best way not to be emailing the 60% that did send it back in. Barring that, what if you did something to add value to the email, like a newsletter of sorts of some sort of coupon they could forward to a friend? Then even if someone already sent theirs in they aren't ticked off at getting the email because it also includes some value.
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  • Profile picture of the author DaniMc
    Sounds to me like you have a structural problem in the business. Throwing more money at something that isn't producing the right results will only create more losses.

    Something about the Adwords strategy is leading to only 60% of people being serious enough to take action.

    There are probably some things you can do to get it up to 70% - but that likely will not solve the problem.

    If you are losing money at 60% - you need to be at 100% to be profitable. And that is a very small profit.

    If you want to profit at 60% - you should be breaking even at 20%. You typically need at least a 3x return on your marketing spend.

    I would advise changing this campaign immediately. Use only ads that have the lowest acquisition cost. Find other places to advertise that are cheaper such as FB or Twitter.

    Yes Adwords is great and can have a great ROI - but you can't break even and stay in business.

    There is a structural issue in the finances of the business that breaks your current campaign.
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    • Profile picture of the author damon015
      Originally Posted by umc View Post

      First, why not segment your list between those that sent in their package and those that didn't? That is the best way not to be emailing the 60% that did send it back in. Barring that, what if you did something to add value to the email, like a newsletter of sorts of some sort of coupon they could forward to a friend? Then even if someone already sent theirs in they aren't ticked off at getting the email because it also includes some value.
      It would be a manual process if I were to do that, no? Also, could I just include a "kindly ignore this message if you've already returned or recently placed your items in the mail" line in the email?

      I'm not sure how good it would be to send someone a reminder with a news letter attached.
      .
      Originally Posted by DaniMc View Post

      Sounds to me like you have a structural problem in the business. Throwing more money at something that isn't producing the right results will only create more losses.

      Something about the Adwords strategy is leading to only 60% of people being serious enough to take action.

      There are probably some things you can do to get it up to 70% - but that likely will not solve the problem.

      If you are losing money at 60% - you need to be at 100% to be profitable. And that is a very small profit.

      If you want to profit at 60% - you should be breaking even at 20%. You typically need at least a 3x return on your marketing spend.

      I would advise changing this campaign immediately. Use only ads that have the lowest acquisition cost. Find other places to advertise that are cheaper such as FB or Twitter.

      Yes Adwords is great and can have a great ROI - but you can't break even and stay in business.

      There is a structural issue in the finances of the business that breaks your current campaign.

      We're in an optimization process, so we're still spending a lot of money test. People who are requesting the kit are forgetting or delaying, it's normal.

      The question is not about finance here, it's whether it be appropriate to send 2 reminders to send the kit back, within 2 months of them requesting the kit? Or maybe whether or not we should offer a bonus offer along with the kit with a time restriction.
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      • Profile picture of the author DaniMc
        Originally Posted by damon015 View Post



        We're in an optimization process, so we're still spending a lot of money test. People who are requesting the kit are forgetting or delaying, it's normal.

        The question is not about finance here, it's whether it be appropriate to send 2 reminders to send the kit back, within 2 months of them requesting the kit? Or maybe whether or not we should offer a bonus offer along with the kit with a time restriction.
        2 reminders in two months? In most sales organizations I have been involved with, this is a very low number.

        I would hit them weekly for 8-10 weeks AND make phone calls.

        At the point they requested the kit, they are just a lead. You then have to kick into sales mode and close the deal. The average sale is made between contact #8-15.

        I bet if you started weekly contacts of your old list (even the people who already sent the jewelry) you would have a lot of results.
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        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
          Originally Posted by DaniMc View Post

          2 reminders in two months? In most sales organizations I have been involved with, this is a very low number.

          I would hit them weekly for 8-10 weeks AND make phone calls.

          At the point they requested the kit, they are just a lead. You then have to kick into sales mode and close the deal. The average sale is made between contact #8-15.
          It's not just that sales tend to be in the 8-15 attempt, but a person is in a different mood, every day. Personally, I would have an excuse to e-mail them every day or two. And then make a phone call maybe 2 weeks in. Why so soon? Because interests fade. Needs change.

          Have you ever had a relative call you, saying they need $500? Do they still call you a month later? No. Why? The need goes away, or they find another source. But either way, it happens quickly.

          I'm assuming they needed to sell their jewelry, because they needed money now. We may be interesting in marketing information, or books on marketing..for years. But imagine you are thinking of selling your family's jewelry, to raise fast cash...how long will that need last? Until the impulse goes away, or that need disappears.

          These "I need money for a ..." needs, may go away quickly. Of course, test. But I'm guessing that there is a point, where the results of further contacts drops off to almost nothing.

          And, let's be honest, this is an impulse decision.. It isn't a studied financial decision. So, the faster it can get done, the better. I might even use that as the appeal in the e-mails.

          Anyway, I'm reading Predictable Revenue: Turn Your Business Into a Sales Machine with the $100 Million Best Practices of Salesforce.com....(on your recommendation) because hearing "sales tend to be in the 8-15 attempt"...still drives me crazy. I need context, so I can sleep at night.


          Originally Posted by DaniMc View Post

          I bet if you started weekly contacts of your old list (even the people who already sent the jewelry) you would have a lot of results.
          I would think that this would be your most productive list. I've never been able to come close with any other list, even referrals. I wonder if the OP can get lists of buyers of other such services...payday loans, car title loans, gambling systems. I bet there is a lot of crossover.


          Added later; My single best cold calling list, when selling in people's homes...was a list of Finance Company customers, that were going to pay off within 90 days. We financed through that company. I wasn't allowed to mention how I got the name, or that I knew they had a loan with the company. Those were the conditions. About half of the names bought from me. I don't mean half of the people I presented to bought. I mean half the list bought. Nearly everyone I presented to, on that list, bought. And of course, the financing approvals were guaranteed. Literally, 100 cold calls (I wouldn't let anyone else do them. Just me) generated 50 sales or so. It was a vein of gold lasting about a year.

          The reason it stopped is because the manager got fired. These customers were supposed to be called by him, to sell another loan. Of course, I was really doing his work for him, gladly. And the home office noticed that every new loan from their paid out customers was for the same amount of money. Oh well.
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  • Profile picture of the author gjabiz
    Originally Posted by damon015 View Post

    Hello all,

    Not new to the forum, but I have just recently made an account. Got a question and was hoping someone with expertise could help out.

    I own a business in which we send a customer something and they have to fill it out and send it back. We're having issues with some customers returning the item, though.

    About 60% of them return and the rest don't. I think it could be because they just simply forget or the offer is not incentivised. Can anybody with expertise in marketing provide some advice?

    Thank you!

    Damon
    How about some case studies when you send the package along with a referral fee offer?

    Once they send the pack back, they become registered referral people who can make a little piece of the pie?

    gjabiz
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    • Profile picture of the author damon015
      Originally Posted by gjabiz View Post

      How about some case studies when you send the package along with a referral fee offer?

      Once they send the pack back, they become registered referral people who can make a little piece of the pie?

      gjabiz
      How about a more direct approach, such as a 10% bonus offer or something, when they send their kit back within a month? And maybe a referral offer after they're a customer?
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      • Profile picture of the author kemdev
        Originally Posted by damon015 View Post

        How about a more direct approach, such as a 10% bonus offer or something, when they send their kit back within a month? And maybe a referral offer after they're a customer?
        That would work.

        What you really need to do is segment the list in your autoresponder. So you could have a master list of leads and two segments: those who returned the package and those that did not. Then set up two different auto responder sequences.

        Whenever someone sends back the package, update the list. Should take like two minutes.

        Create an autoresponder sequence for those who haven't sent back the package...

        Day 7: "bob don't forget our 10% bonus"

        Day 14: "Bob you only have 2 weeks to get your 10% bonus"

        Day 29: "Bob this is your last chance"

        Etc...
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  • Profile picture of the author david2015
    Maybe you can use email marketing by utilizing autoresponder so that it will send a reminder to your customer about the step they need to do.
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    • Profile picture of the author savidge4
      I am going to come a bit out of left field here... First off 60% is pretty damn good... At this point you will be squeezing at percentages, and not looking for signifigant gain... its simply not there. I personally would be looking at the process.

      #1 you have a traffic source- you are converting WELL on the traffic source

      #2 you have X amount committing to the process ( X being 100% )

      #3 you are "sending" out X recover packets.

      #4 you are receiving only 60% of recovery packets.

      It becomes very clear that the friction, or the aspect of the process that needs attention is between steps 3 and 4. BUT... I would actually say that the lack of friction in process #2 is the true culprit.

      #2 is the part of the process were the person basically opts in to the process and say YES, I want you to send me the free recovery kit. ( Yes I want you to buy my jewelry ) Its a yes, its a commitment.. but there is no skin in the game at this point. to be honest I am shocked you are even getting 60%

      What were to happen if you were to charge $5.00 in step 2 for shipping, that is refunded with the payment for processed jewelry? Takes some amount of liability out of your process, and puts an amount of accountability into the end user.

      Then at this point... because there has been an action other than checking "Yes" in terms of commitment, the language used for follow up changes.

      The issue I would see in following up without the financial commitment is the potential for being labeled as SPAM. People that have changed their minds and would get annoyed with a follow up sequence. poor e-mail performance within the Google empire does translate to poor performance in increase cost within say adwords. ( or so I have read )
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      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
        Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

        I am going to come a bit out of left field here... First off 60% is pretty damn good... At this point you will be squeezing at percentages, and not looking for signifigant gain... its simply not there. I personally would be looking at the process.

        #1 you have a traffic source- you are converting WELL on the traffic source

        #2 you have X amount committing to the process ( X being 100% )

        #3 you are "sending" out X recover packets.

        #4 you are receiving only 60% of recovery packets.

        It becomes very clear that the friction, or the aspect of the process that needs attention is between steps 3 and 4. BUT... I would actually say that the lack of friction in process #2 is the true culprit.

        #2 is the part of the process were the person basically opts in to the process and say YES, I want you to send me the free recovery kit. ( Yes I want you to buy my jewelry ) Its a yes, its a commitment.. but there is no skin in the game at this point. to be honest I am shocked you are even getting 60%

        What were to happen if you were to charge $5.00 in step 2 for shipping, that is refunded with the payment for processed jewelry? Takes some amount of liability out of your process, and puts an amount of accountability into the end user.

        Then at this point... because there has been an action other than checking "Yes" in terms of commitment, the language used for follow up changes.

        The issue I would see in following up without the financial commitment is the potential for being labeled as SPAM. People that have changed their minds and would get annoyed with a follow up sequence. poor e-mail performance within the Google empire does translate to poor performance in increase cost within say adwords. ( or so I have read )

        First, phenomenally well thought out post. Thank you.
        Yes, trying to make that 60% go up to 65%, using the same methods, is going to be a problem. You are right, the way to deal with it, is get a minor commitment of a refundable deposit...at the exact point that their desire to follow through is at their highest.

        You already pointed out that this would keep them from thinking of the follow-ups as Spam. But the bigger advantage is that the follow-ups will be far more profitable, because they are now "customers". Sending that refundable deposit, makes them a buyer.

        And the 60% might shoot up to 75-80%.

        Good stuff all around.
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        • Profile picture of the author savidge4
          Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

          First, phenomenally well thought out post. Thank you.
          Mr. Whitacre, first of all thank you for the compliment, means a lot.

          I will say I read over this post a number of times. All of my years in online development has lead me to focusing primarily on CRO ( Conversion Rate Optimization ) My very first gut response to this was the numbers were wrong. 60% yeah right.. of all the people that clicked that were interested maybe. BUT even going through and reading once again I get the impression that they are CLOSING 60% of everyone that clicks an ad.

          Honestly hard number to put your mind around.. and THEN to read that they are at a break even point financially with THAT conversion rate. Honestly a even harder number to get your head around. There simply comes a point when you are trying to squeeze juice from a dehydrated piece of fruit. with enough pressure you may get that last little drop... but to expect 10 15 or 20% more... I am just not seeing it.

          Given the numbers at a face value there is obviously nothing wrong with the traffic source, there is nothing wrong with the offer, there is nothing wrong with the conversion. What is wrong is the expense of traffic vs the leeway for profit. IF your business model REQUIRES you to convert 80 90 and100% to obtain profit.. you simply are kidding yourself.

          The above solution ( previous post ) I will personally GUARANTEE will reduce your overall offer conversion, but will increase the number that do convert to follow through the process. Is this really an answer to the problem at hand and the answer is no. The problem is deeper than how many convert.

          The issue is the expense of the conversion. I would whole heartedly suggest you get your data gathered up in a manor that represents every term and its cost, The number of clicks at each cost, the number of commitments at each cost, and finally the number of conversions ( package sent, and metal received ) and sit down and analyze the living crap out of it.

          We are talking having an accountant look over this. finding that PPC guy that optimizes return for a living. Someone with experience and knowledge in online conversion cost, that can point out the ever elusive magic number.

          Whats the magic number you ask? The number where expense is delivering a return. ( max cost of spend on PPC ) You may have terms that are so expensive no matter how well you convert you may never see return. you may have terms where the conversion is so low, it is only building your average cost. Again, you need to start looking at the whole picture one piece at a time.

          I really don't know about the OP's experience with PPC... but I would suggest getting a real good understanding of the matrix within Google that ultimately determines the cost of a click. They are looking for CONTENT and CONTEXT match. The keyword a user types vs the keyword usage on the landing page. ( this assists in "quality Score" )

          A solid PPC campaign is not a multitude of terms all pointed at a single page. It should be landing pages that match terms. ( the exception being the ability for dynamic keyword insertion )

          Instead of hearing all this crap from me maybe a link to an article is in order: You're Doing AdWords Wrong (Here's How to Make It Right) a slight bit dated.. but still very relevant.
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  • Profile picture of the author misterme
    I think you ought to make the box start ticking... or in lieu of that, have in red large letters on that box some incentive for them to send it in NOW. "For Immediate Attention" "For Best Price" "Extra Bonus Ca$h to first ten we receive back" "Our unconditional guarantee that if ours is not the highest quote..." "send this now and you'll be also be entered in our
    giveaway" --- something, right? A "lift" card (if you're choosing not to send this back, read this now..."). You need to remind them of why they're doing this and re-motivate them.
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  • Profile picture of the author DaniMc
    Great posts savidge4. There is a lot more at work here than just PPC. He says the question is not about finance, but it absolutely is.

    If 60% of the leads follow through, and he is losing money, there is absolutely something wrong structurally. Margins too small, expenses too large, etc...

    Your small charge for shipping is a great idea, I would test it on a small scale first.
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    • Profile picture of the author vndnbrgj
      To the OP...

      What are the rest of your numbers?
      You get X amount of impressions/views
      You get X amount of people that click your ad
      You get X amount that inquire

      From there, you send out prepaid envelopes. 60% of those people send the gold products in.

      Adding a follow up sequence will increase the 60%, but marginally.

      Charging upfront for the envelopes will slightly lower response, however they should be better leads with a better response.

      Even still, the rest of your numbers need to be evaluated. As well as additional traffic sources.
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    • Profile picture of the author Ron Lafuddy
      Originally Posted by DaniMc View Post

      Great posts savidge4. There is a lot more at work here than just PPC. He says the question is not about finance, but it absolutely is.

      If 60% of the leads follow through, and he is losing money, there is absolutely something wrong structurally. Margins too small, expenses too large, etc...

      Your small charge for shipping is a great idea, I would test it on a small scale first.
      Great observation, Dan and others who have posted.

      You guys have identified the "elephant in the room" not discussed by the Lead Gen Hype-sters who regularly post in this forum.

      Process.

      It's different for each and every business, even within the same niche.

      You can't fix a bad process with more leads, as the hype-sters would have you believe.

      That's where their whole calculator-based scheme, falls apart.
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      • Profile picture of the author damon015
        Originally Posted by kemdev View Post

        That would work.

        What you really need to do is segment the list in your autoresponder. So you could have a master list of leads and two segments: those who returned the package and those that did not. Then set up two different auto responder sequences.

        Whenever someone sends back the package, update the list. Should take like two minutes.

        Create an autoresponder sequence for those who haven't sent back the package...

        Day 7: "bob don't forget our 10% bonus"

        Day 14: "Bob you only have 2 weeks to get your 10% bonus"

        Day 29: "Bob this is your last chance"

        Etc...
        I'm not sure exactly how to segment? Would I be creating a segment, then moving all new sign ups to that segment to receive the reminder email, and taking them out of the segment when they sent back their pack?

        Originally Posted by DaniMc View Post

        2 reminders in two months? In most sales organizations I have been involved with, this is a very low number.

        I would hit them weekly for 8-10 weeks AND make phone calls.

        At the point they requested the kit, they are just a lead. You then have to kick into sales mode and close the deal. The average sale is made between contact #8-15.

        I bet if you started weekly contacts of your old list (even the people who already sent the jewelry) you would have a lot of results.


        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        It's not just that sales tend to be in the 8-15 attempt, but a person is in a different mood, every day. Personally, I would have an excuse to e-mail them every day or two. And then make a phone call maybe 2 weeks in. Why so soon? Because interests fade. Needs change.

        Have you ever had a relative call you, saying they need $500? Do they still call you a month later? No. Why? The need goes away, or they find another source. But either way, it happens quickly.

        I'm assuming they needed to sell their jewelry, because they needed money now. We may be interesting in marketing information, or books on marketing..for years. But imagine you are thinking of selling your family's jewelry, to raise fast cash...how long will that need last? Until the impulse goes away, or that need disappears.

        These "I need money for a ..." needs, may go away quickly. Of course, test. But I'm guessing that there is a point, where the results of further contacts drops off to almost nothing.

        And, let's be honest, this is an impulse decision.. It isn't a studied financial decision. So, the faster it can get done, the better. I might even use that as the appeal in the e-mails.

        Anyway, I'm reading Predictable Revenue: Turn Your Business Into a Sales Machine with the $100 Million Best Practices of Salesforce.com....(on your recommendation) because hearing "sales tend to be in the 8-15 attempt"...still drives me crazy. I need context, so I can sleep at night.




        I would think that this would be your most productive list. I've never been able to come close with any other list, even referrals. I wonder if the OP can get lists of buyers of other such services...payday loans, car title loans, gambling systems. I bet there is a lot of crossover.


        Added later; My single best cold calling list, when selling in people's homes...was a list of Finance Company customers, that were going to pay off within 90 days. We financed through that company. I wasn't allowed to mention how I got the name, or that I knew they had a loan with the company. Those were the conditions. About half of the names bought from me. I don't mean half of the people I presented to bought. I mean half the list bought. Nearly everyone I presented to, on that list, bought. And of course, the financing approvals were guaranteed. Literally, 100 cold calls (I wouldn't let anyone else do them. Just me) generated 50 sales or so. It was a vein of gold lasting about a year.

        The reason it stopped is because the manager got fired. These customers were supposed to be called by him, to sell another loan. Of course, I was really doing his work for him, gladly. And the home office noticed that every new loan from their paid out customers was for the same amount of money. Oh well.
        It doesn't sound reasonable to contact them so much, since it will probably take 6-10 days for them to receive the pack in some cases. I think maybe 2-3 reminders is enough, if they didn't take action on the 2-3 reminder, I'm not sure why they would on the 8-10?

        Also, because it's gold jewelry, the repurchase rate of this service I imagine would have to be low, correct? Simply, because people aren't buying new jewelry everyday.

        Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

        I am going to come a bit out of left field here... First off 60% is pretty damn good... At this point you will be squeezing at percentages, and not looking for signifigant gain... its simply not there. I personally would be looking at the process.

        #1 you have a traffic source- you are converting WELL on the traffic source

        #2 you have X amount committing to the process ( X being 100% )

        #3 you are "sending" out X recover packets.

        #4 you are receiving only 60% of recovery packets.

        It becomes very clear that the friction, or the aspect of the process that needs attention is between steps 3 and 4. BUT... I would actually say that the lack of friction in process #2 is the true culprit.

        #2 is the part of the process were the person basically opts in to the process and say YES, I want you to send me the free recovery kit. ( Yes I want you to buy my jewelry ) Its a yes, its a commitment.. but there is no skin in the game at this point. to be honest I am shocked you are even getting 60%

        What were to happen if you were to charge $5.00 in step 2 for shipping, that is refunded with the payment for processed jewelry? Takes some amount of liability out of your process, and puts an amount of accountability into the end user.

        Then at this point... because there has been an action other than checking "Yes" in terms of commitment, the language used for follow up changes.

        The issue I would see in following up without the financial commitment is the potential for being labeled as SPAM. People that have changed their minds and would get annoyed with a follow up sequence. poor e-mail performance within the Google empire does translate to poor performance in increase cost within say adwords. ( or so I have read )
        We don't need them to be commited to the process. The only reason why we need commitment right now is because we're still optimizing our account in Adwords. After we optimize everything and switch over to our shipping account, we won't have to pay for the cost of shipping upfront, like we're doing right now, and leads should be much cheaper.

        So a few packs not returned, won't be such a big issue. When we're talking only a handful of orders a month, 1-2 extra returns is not a minimal gain like people are suggesting here. Perhaps it seems like we're working with huge volume, but that's not the case. An extra pack returned right now is a big deal.

        I do think your idea is very good though. You're basically suggesting that customers foot the bill of shipping or something, correct? Right now the main thing is optimizing the account, because we're paying lots of extra money to test ads and keywords, this is why acquisition cost is so high.
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  • Profile picture of the author damon015
    Thank you to everyone for their input, really appreciate it!
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