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Cold Calling Effectiveness

by gcj1408
123 replies
Is cold calling still effective today? I know that this forum is for Internet Marketing and the channel that is used mostly here to sell is the Internet. I also know that some people here may have a cold calling background. If you have a cold calling background please respond. If you have read any stats on if cold calling is effective or not,please note the source or experience and respond. Thank you for your help.
#calling #cold #effectiveness
  • Profile picture of the author Steve B
    I have lots of experience with cold calling . . .

    I receive cold calls everyday and I absolutely hate them!

    Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author tryinhere
      Originally Posted by Steve B View Post

      I have lots of experience with cold calling . . .
      I receive cold calls everyday and I absolutely hate them!
      Steve
      I had some compelete twat ring me the other day, from abc seo company, he asked if i was in charge of the marketing / adwords? "yes" OK I need to ask you some questions to see if you qualify to go through to our accounts manager.

      ? What a f ing joke I says, you ring me up and then you hard ball me into jumping through your ring of fire to be allowed to speak to your darth vader, lol you taking the piss with me now son, and he stuffed even more by telling me that giiggle had given them my contact to call so we could improve the campaign, and lets say the chat did not last much past that point.
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  • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
    Originally Posted by gcj1408 View Post

    Is cold calling still effective today? I know that this forum is for Internet Marketing and the channel that is used mostly here to sell is the Internet. I also know that some people here may have a cold calling background. If you have a cold calling background please respond. If you have read any stats on if cold calling is effective or not,please note the source or experience and respond. Thank you for your help.
    And this is why I'm going to kill myself.
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    • Profile picture of the author gjabiz
      Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

      And this is why I'm going to kill myself.
      Homicide, then we all benefit. Better, yet, sell him a rope, it will make his efforts quicker. HA!

      gjabiz
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    • Profile picture of the author tryinhere
      Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

      And this is why I'm going to kill myself.
      So if the OP was to call you after you kill yourself, would it be still classed as a cold call, with you being dead n all.
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      | > Choosing to go off the grid for a while to focus on family, work and life in general. Have a great 2020 < |
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      • Profile picture of the author Ron Lafuddy
        Originally Posted by tryinhere View Post

        So if the OP was to call you after you kill yourself, would it be still classed as a cold call, with you being dead n all.
        Only if he calls on the dead-line.
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        • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
          Originally Posted by tryinhere View Post

          So if the OP was to call you after you kill yourself, would it be still classed as a cold call, with you being dead n all.
          Originally Posted by Ron Lafuddy View Post

          Only if he calls on the dead-line.
          It would be a really, really cold call.
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          • Profile picture of the author Ron Lafuddy
            Originally Posted by bizgrower View Post

            It would be a really, really cold call.
            Popeye had a 'head' phone

            Bill Clinton had a bed phone

            Batman had a red phone

            But ol' Claude...he had a dead phone
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      • Profile picture of the author dave147
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        And this is why I'm going to kill myself.
        Originally Posted by tryinhere View Post

        So if the OP was to call you after you kill yourself, would it be still classed as a cold call, with you being dead n all.
        Originally Posted by Ron Lafuddy View Post

        Only if he calls on the dead-line.
        Originally Posted by bizgrower View Post

        It would be a really, really cold call.
        that would immediately become a cold case
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      • Profile picture of the author brookeharper08
        Absolutely priceless! lol

        On a more serious note, cold calling is not as effective as social selling. According to studies, a mere 1% of cold calls eventually become opportunities while social sellers have 66% greater quota attainment compared to cold callers.

        Instead of relying on cold calling alone, you might want to explore other sales techniques (traditional or modern) that would present you with higher chances of producing bigger results.
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    • Profile picture of the author animal44
      Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

      And this is why I'm going to kill myself.
      Opportunity...!

      Here's my offers on guns, ropes, cyanide pills, etc....

      And the back end offer on coffins, funerals, life assurance...

      And if you bequeath at least 1 million quid to the "Save the Animal" charity, we'll give you a free fully engraved tombstone*.

      * Limited to 20 words.
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  • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
    Originally Posted by gcj1408 View Post

    Is cold calling still effective today? .
    Sorry, but we get this exact post about once a week here.

    There is an entire industry of cold callers on the phone . Huge companies rely on it. Fortunes are made in cold calling.

    Even if you don't want to cold call, even if you hate getting a cold call, fortunes are made this way.

    Is it the only way? No. Is it the best way? It depends on what you sell, and your target audience.

    But cold calling is effective, if it generates a huge profit. And it can certainly do that.

    What amazes me (nothing personal) is that people ask this question. If you are getting cold calls on the phone, it's because it's profitable. If you get direct mail, over and over again, it's because it's profitable. The internet? Also profitable.

    Posting on this thread? Not so much.
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    • Profile picture of the author animal44
      Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

      Fortunes are made in cold calling.
      If this was the case,there'd be a lot of very wealthy people on here... Where are they...?

      Show me a billion dollar company that made it's billions by cold calling...
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      • Profile picture of the author Michael Nguyen
        Originally Posted by animal44 View Post

        If this was the case,there'd be a lot of very wealthy people on here... Where are they...?

        Show me a billion dollar company that made it's billions by cold calling...
        Probably not many millionaires on here from Cold calling but many may have been made from here. Just because cold calling does not work for you doesn't mean its not effective.

        Billion dollar company that does cold calling? Here: Salesforce.com: The Customer Success Platform To Grow Your Business

        Here's a UK multi million pound operation £51 million in revenue BBC Three - The Call Centre

        Why do you diss cold calling so much? Grant Cardone's team does many outbound cold calls and sells his training programs for 5 figures.
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        • Profile picture of the author animal44
          Originally Posted by Michael Nguyen View Post

          Billion dollar company that does cold calling? Here: Salesforce.com: The Customer Success Platform To Grow Your Business
          Salesforce is a CRM product, I can't find any indication that they cold call as their prospecting system. On the contrary, they advise against cold calling:
          https://www.salesforce.com/blog/2013...d-calling.html
          Everyone dreads cold calls, so my advice is, don't do them. There are so many ways to get to know your prospect and their company before you reach out to them via email or phone that you should never have to make a cold call. Do some homework before you start "dialing for dollars" and cold calls will be a thing of the past.

          Originally Posted by Michael Nguyen View Post

          Why do you diss cold calling so much?
          Many reasons, too many to restate here.

          Main one for this forum is that advice that THE way to get clients is cold calling is so wrong.

          A while back I helped a guy who had been made redundant. That in itself is a hit on your self esteem. Then he goes through the welfare system. Another knock on his self esteem. After cold calling and facing a lot of rejection, self esteem at an all time low.

          I helped him get his first client which then led to many others. He hasn't cold called or advertised and he's really busy. He hasn't had to face much rejection. Sure people do turn him down after he's pitched, but more hire him. And price is rarely an objection, even though he's now earning far more than he was in his job...

          Gary Halbert said the one advantage he'd want is a starving crowd. I think it was Joe Sugarman who said "the right message to the right audience at the right time". Randomly cold calling businesses doesn't fit well with this sage advice...
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          • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
            Originally Posted by animal44 View Post

            Main one for this forum is that advice that THE way to get clients is cold calling is so wrong.
            I honestly don't see that. I see people asking about cold calling, and I see answers to those questions. And truth be told, beginners have fewer options if they need a check by next week, and haven't set up a reliable funnel, that brings in all the business they need.

            I understand why people hate cold calling. The vast majority get beaten down by rejection, and nobody actually likes getting a cold call.

            But to say that money isn't made that way is just silly.

            For the record, for all to see...

            "I, Claude Whitacre...being of sound mind and body..do hereby declare that, for most types of businesses, there are better ways to prospect than cold calling complete strangers. Referrals from buyers, networking, attraction marketing, advertising...all get better results for many businesses.

            And cold calling strangers is not the only way to make money, or build a business"

            Better?

            Now is it possible, just possible, that there are people making money, with cold calling, in many businesses?
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            • Profile picture of the author Ron Lafuddy
              Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post


              "I, Claude Whitacre...being of sound mind...
              And right there, is where you lost me.
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          • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
            Originally Posted by animal44 View Post

            Gary Halbert said the one advantage he'd want is a starving crowd. I think it was Joe Sugarman who said "the right message to the right audience at the right time". Randomly cold calling businesses doesn't fit well with this sage advice...
            "the right message to the right audience at the right time"

            Essentially, businesses that have the right message use cold calling as the method of finding the right audience. It's like building the mailing list, before you mail to it. Cold calling is building your list.

            For example, I used to call (pretty retired now) event managers for speaking gigs. Very little rejection. Everyone treated me well. But I wasn't calling everyone in the phone book either. I was only calling a compiled list of possible prospects.

            And the Chamber Of Commerce truly cold calls, but only to lists of businesses, not the general public.

            And I've never known a direct mail letter, that was just sent to random people in the phone book, that broke closer to even. Halbert's Coat Of Arms letter at least had the person's name. And a near irresistible universal appeal. His offer could have been sold by random cold calling a phone book, I'm sure.

            And "a starving crowd"? Cold calling is finding out who is starving. Cold calling is panning for gold, when the biggest money is made mining for gold. Why is it talked about here? Because panning for gold is far easier to teach, and you can start today.
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            • Profile picture of the author mak25
              Thank you Claude for your posts. It makes it very clear that prospecting by phone is ONE viable way to find businesses that want or need a service or product.

              To be honest, I am so sick and tired of hearing from that animal dude, EVERY time someone mentions using the phone to find clients.

              It's as if he has a Google alert to let him know when someone mentions phone prospecting so he can immediately chime in with his negative BS. It's getting so old, and so repetitive. Enough is enough already.
              I would think he would be embarrassed by now by his over done schtick. He's a one trick pony. Bash phone prospecting. That's it. SMH.

              Thanks again Claude. By the way, I have all of your books. I've learned a lot from them.
              I never learned a thing from that animal dude. Except how to mock people who use the phone for business.
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              • Profile picture of the author Ron Lafuddy
                Originally Posted by mak25 View Post

                Thank you Claude for your posts. It makes it very clear that prospecting by phone is ONE viable way to find businesses that want or need a service or product.

                To be honest, I am so sick and tired of hearing from that animal dude, EVERY time someone mentions using the phone to find clients.

                .
                Mak,

                Blame Claude for the anti-cold calling posts.

                It's all his fault. His posts are so good, that he draws thread views like bees to honey. (sounds better than flies to...)

                That doesn't go unnoticed by the sig jockeys.

                Claude = views.

                Views are where it's at when you're sig parking.

                It's not personal, and really has nothing to do with cold calling.

                Being "anti" allows them to keep thread bumping, which creates more views.

                It's just one of Many games, that go on here.

                Relax, get what you can from the great posts that are being contributed and
                let the rest go by.

                It'll extend your life.

                Ron
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                • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                  Originally Posted by Ron Lafuddy View Post


                  Claude = views.

                  Claude = Donuts.
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                  • Profile picture of the author savidge4
                    Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                    Claude = Donuts.

                    HUH? I thought Claude = Fried Chicken
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                  • Profile picture of the author Zodiax
                    Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                    Claude = Donuts.
                    Note to self*

                    To sell Claude over the phone, sell Donuts.
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                    • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
                      Originally Posted by Zodiax View Post

                      Note to self*

                      To sell Claude over the phone, sell Donuts.
                      I had an employee who would have made Claude hang up the phone.
                      Seriously, he could not call a business and give a pizza away.LOL
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      • Profile picture of the author gjabiz
        Originally Posted by animal44 View Post

        If this was the case,there'd be a lot of very wealthy people on here... Where are they...?

        Show me a billion dollar company that made it's billions by cold calling...
        Over 4,000 employees. 30 call centers. Built on the cold telephone call.

        Infocision. Gary Taylor. In addition, we have several millionaires here in Akron who made their monies with telemarketing.

        gjabiz
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  • Profile picture of the author SalesGod
    Is it still effective? I can't think of anything more effective. It doesn't matter if your using the internet your going to have to get on the phone and close the lead anyways. That's not a cold call however you'll still need the skills to close the transaction. The internet is just a tool in the sales process.
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  • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TeleTech
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by bizgrower View Post

      The Chamber Of Commerce.

      I'm sure there are plenty of trade organizations that build their membership primarily through cold calling their industry. It's how my core industry trade association builds its membership.

      If you own a business, think of all the cold calls you get. I get maybe 15 a day plus another 10-15 robo calls. Sure, a few are selling Viagra, but many are selling credit card processing, or wanting you to change utility providers. But my guess is, they are making money.

      Newspapers cold call to sell subscriptions. And I can't tell you how many calls I've had from Omaha Steaks. I'm assuming these people are making a profit.

      But remember folks; Claude's Law #35. Cold calling is not the only way to get new customers. But it's better than sitting on your ass, doing nothing.

      If you really want to get from point A to point B, you can build a car, or you can start running. If you need to get there by tonight, and you have the stamina? Run.

      But if you want to go much further than you can go by running, building a car will ultimately take you further than running.

      Or......you can built a car after running time. and when your car is finally ready, you'll already be farther to point B....because you took the time to start by running.

      Everyone get that? Running is cold calling, building a car is creating a marketing funnel and networking.
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      • Profile picture of the author scajo
        Awesome reply! You get straight to the point.
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  • Profile picture of the author eccj
    This is a dumb conversation that keeps happening but Claude is right.

    Yes some of the biggest businesses in the world use and were built on cold calling. Almost all the big brokerage houses made it big by cold calling and almost all of them still use it.

    Now lets look at favorites of the attraction marketing, Sales 2.0 types. The shinning examples are Sales Force and Hub Spot.

    Neither make money.
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by eccj View Post

      This is a dumb conversation that keeps happening but Claude is right.

      Yes some of the biggest businesses in the world use and were built on cold calling. Almost all the big brokerage houses made it big by cold calling and almost all of them still use it.

      Now lets look at favorites of the attraction marketing, Sales 2.0 types. The shinning examples are Sales Force and Hub Spot.

      Neither make money.
      Guys; To be fair, there are lots and lots of companies that are making huge money (whatever that is) that have no cold calling at all. It's not an either/or thing.

      Companies may cold call their customer list (or a JV customer list), but not truly cold call to the masses. Some call every business in an area, and do quite well. Some are more selective.

      Dan Kennedy preaches funnel marketing, and variations of it. And for the most part, it's a great way to build a business. But 2/3rds of his event attendance is filled by calling his members. There are all kinds of levels of cold calling, and methods of direct marketing, and they can overlap a lot.

      The main reason I like the idea of someone starting out cold calling, is that it builds strength. Some people can't take it. Maybe most people. I'm not talking about working in a call center..I mean building your own business, calling to add your own clients.

      The greatest insurance salespeople built their business starting that way. The great stock brokers, the great real estate salespeople.......

      There is power in knowing you can pick up the phone, starting with nothing, and have a sale by the end of that day. Do I do it now? No. But it isn't because I can't.

      Most people aren't sales people. Prospecting is selling. It's distasteful and crippling to most. That's why they don't want to do it. I get that.

      My Dad threw me in the lake, to teach me to swim. Really. I swam. Had he held my hand, and let me put my toe in the water, and then eventually let me get used to the water....I still would have eventually learned to swim. But the way my Father taught me? I could swim that day.

      Personally, I agree with Animal that some sort of JV is by far the best way to get new customers. But for the people that don't have a mentor to show them those ropes, and for the guys that need a sale to pay their rent. Cold calling works.

      To say it's not the best way, is fair.
      To say it's not the most profitable way, is fair,
      To say that it's agonizing to do...is also fair.
      To say that you would rather kill yourself than do it...is still OK..
      But to say that it doesn't get business, is nonsense.
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  • Profile picture of the author eccj
    JV is a great way to do business. But you have to prospect for JV's so having the experience from cold calling is going to pay off when you have enough money and experience to move to JV's.

    JV's, in my experience, are a form of selective cold calling. If I want to get an accountant to put on a seminar about financial planning to get clients, I have to call that guy, get in front of him, and pitch my idea.

    I might send an email, make a phone call, or walk right in and introduce myself. I'd probably do all three.

    The ability to talk to people you don't know and get somewhere is invaluable.
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  • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
    I too am tired of this discussion. Some like it, some don't. Some are good at it, some are not.
    Some products or services do not lend themselves to cold calling. Some cold callers enjoy it,
    some don't but are still effective.

    Just about any business should have multiple ways to get business.
    We all know about the IMers who relied too much on Google and lost their shirts.

    American Furniture Warehouse (AFW) stopped newspaper advertising when our two major
    papers merged and raised prices a ton. A short time later they negotiated a new deal
    because they both needed the benefits. Yes, that's a JV, but it's also an example of
    AFW - even though it's a very established regional Brick and Click chain - realizing it can't
    rely on just it's other avenues of getting business.

    JVs, in my experience, require more experience and credibility on the part of the one
    initiating the JV. They, rightly so, run into the resistance of "I'm not going to risk my
    reputation by endorsing you (just yet anyway,maybe)."
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  • Profile picture of the author jimmcdonald909
    I genuinely have to ask...Why do you feel you have to cold call to drum up business?
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    • Profile picture of the author animal44
      Funny ol thread...

      If ever there was a thread that proved this is the cold call forum, this would be it... So much emotion, hate, so little rational discussion...

      As a last word, one of those examples that "prove" cold calling works has their financials posted. They made $4,000,000 revenue in 2014, that's less than 3 million pounds. They apparently need over 13,000 employees to generate this revenue.
      My assitant and I generated more than 3 times that in profits - not revenue, profits - in 2014... just the two of us... Thereby proving beyond any reasonable doubt that my methods are far more efficient, far more effective and far more profitable than cold calling...

      Cheerio Guys and Gals...
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      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
        Originally Posted by animal44 View Post

        Funny ol thread...

        If ever there was a thread that proved this is the cold call forum, this would be it... So much emotion, hate, so little rational discussion...

        As a last word, one of those examples that "prove" cold calling works has their financials posted. They made $4,000,000 revenue in 2014, that's less than 3 million pounds. They apparently need over 13,000 employees to generate this revenue.
        My assitant and I generated more than 3 times that in profits - not revenue, profits - in 2014... just the two of us... Thereby proving beyond any reasonable doubt that my methods are far more efficient, far more effective and far more profitable than cold calling...

        Cheerio Guys and Gals...
        I don't think any proof was needed. I already said that JVs were a better way. But you are not a new guy, and you obviously have experience.

        If this is Monday, and you need a check by Friday, and you are new to the game, cold calling is the surest way...unless you have a mentor to show you how to go through a Joint Venture, and everything that involves.

        Most people here, and probably everyone asking about cold calling, is a newbie, and a one man band. You are obviously a seasoned marketer, who runs a highly profitable efficient operation. Could someone learn your business in a week?

        If they can, why not write a course, or offer coaching?

        Added later;

        If it's a contest you want, manufacturing, to sell through retail chains makes far more money than any of us make.

        Importing, to sell through retailers is also potentially far more profitable than any business model we ever talk about.

        Heck, buying companies, and breaking them up to sell off as parts, makes more money than any of us make.

        A friend of mine arranged to import heaters from China, and sell them through mail order, via full page newspaper and magazine ads. For the first couple of years, he was averaging about a million dollars in profit a week. The only prospecting he did, was contacting manufacturers in China, and negotiating terms.

        There is always a bigger fish.
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        • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
          Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post


          A friend of mine arranged to import heaters from China, and sell them through mail order, via full page newspaper and magazine ads. For the first couple of years, he was averaging about a million dollars in profit a week. The only prospecting he did, was contacting manufacturers in China, and negotiating terms.
          Was that Julian Toth Claude?

          Best,
          Doctor E. Vile
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      • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
        Claude = Fried Chicken, Donuts, and Humor. Oh, and Kung Fu.

        Looks like we might see Oziboomer and Savige4 in OT?


        -----




        Originally Posted by animal44 View Post

        Funny ol thread...

        If ever there was a thread that proved this is the cold call forum, this would be it... So much emotion, hate, so little rational discussion...

        As a last word, one of those examples that "prove" cold calling works has their financials posted. They made $4,000,000 revenue in 2014, that's less than 3 million pounds. They apparently need over 13,000 employees to generate this revenue.
        My assitant and I generated more than 3 times that in profits - not revenue, profits - in 2014... just the two of us... Thereby proving beyond any reasonable doubt that my methods are far more efficient, far more effective and far more profitable than cold calling...

        Cheerio Guys and Gals...

        I think there is a disconnect. Also, it's unfair to gloss over the detailed, rational posts to say
        this proves this is the cold call forum.

        Animal44, if I'm not mistaken, you primarily work in the information product space as opposed
        to offering consulting or marketing services to Offline businesses, or being another type of
        Offline business. Way different than a web guy or SEO in the beginning or early stages of their
        business, or just somebody who plain does well with cold calling.

        This is the Offline section where cold calling happens to come up for discussion a lot.
        "Best" method - again just about any business should use several methods of business
        development- depends a lot on the product or service being offered, as well as the
        skills and resources of the business/business person. A small or one man show who
        can only do 2-3 projects at a time would probably suck at handling a deluge of hot leads
        from a different type of marketing campaign.

        Regardless of the business, I'd say that being good at selling or service on the phones is needed.

        I know of a cranky but very skilled one man show car and truck transmission rebuilder who
        could only take his business to a certain level. He's since sold and retired. The new
        people kept the name/reputation and have grown the business to a 20 person
        operation. Instead of a cranky guy giving quotes while up to his elbows in a transmission,
        they have a few people who are good and pleasant with the incoming calls.

        I managed a pizza place and we grew our delivery business by offering local businesses
        a free pepperoni or sausage pizza. "Hi, this is Dan with _______ restaurant. Would you like a
        free pizza today?" Even so, I had an employee who could not do that to save his life. I never
        had a hang up while he had more hang ups than success. Of course he went into this blabbering
        about how his manager wanted him to call......(I could not get him to stop saying that and ended
        up having him just deliver pizzas).

        Certainly need some telemarketing/sales skills in my main industry.


        Dan
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      • Profile picture of the author tryinhere
        Originally Posted by animal44 View Post

        Funny ol thread...

        If ever there was a thread that proved this is the cold call forum, this would be it... So much emotion, hate, so little rational discussion......
        I would love a cold call forum or sub forum, because that way all of the discussion / people who want to talk about it can be separated.

        ? Now a cold calling forum ? that rings a bell

        the original op has not returned or replied and with such a common spammers nick, you would think it was spam or even paid forum poster trying to bolster activity. (I did notice QBE1234 (or some crap) also posted straight after this as well, so more than likely paid forum posters, but I would be silly to think that would happen here ? not the first time I have thought that as well with some of the sheite posts)

        So yes instead of trying to add all sorts of fancy stuff to the site, make a place for all of this telemarketing talk.
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        • Profile picture of the author Ron Lafuddy
          Originally Posted by tryinhere View Post

          I would love a cold call forum or sub forum, because that way all of the discussion / people who want to talk about it can be separated..
          No reason to separate anything out that has to do with sales or selling.

          This is the Offline Forum.

          We talk about ANYTHING that has to do with selling, sales, marketing, etc.

          That's what we are interested in. That's why we are here.

          We don't need another forum for cold calling.

          It's a proven method for selling successfully. Thus, it belongs here.

          We don't need to change the discussion for sig jockeys, spammers and sock puppets.

          Let THEM go somewhere else.

          Those who come in here with negative, hate-filled comments have an agenda.

          Ignore 'em.

          They'll move on.

          Ron
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          • Profile picture of the author savidge4
            Ok, so to some Cold Calling is not effective. The alternatives in general become e-mail marketing and as Animal44 suggest time and again, a JV scenario. Lets not forget in the list Direct mailing. Mass postal mailing, Social in general, and the entire onslaught of other online and offline options available.

            I can say, personally that I do all the above. That being said, there are some I use more than others - I have found that any number of the options may not be a good fit for delivering certain offers. When looking for clients we ultimately want a perfect match, and in methods for lead gen / advertising.. the same holds true.

            What gets me the most, with this conversation as a whole, is the idea that any of these options are "Easier" than the other. Each and every method presents its pitfalls. There are barriers inherent in all the options. The script, the message, the presentation, the delivery.. understanding on what side of "What's in it for me" you need to be standing on.

            Right down to brass tacks.. NONE of these options are easy for someone that has never done it before. Many of us here speak from a level of experience and knowledge that is far beyond say the average person posting over on the main board.

            From time to time I get contacted from other forum members. "Hey can you look at this." There are some I can say.. "Do this and this" and everything works out. There are times its a couple of steps.. and then more often than not, it is simply an exercise in back peddling.

            A recent back peddling resulted in me saying "look, trust me, and allow me to set the thing up for you." The initial set up got results, and 3 testing periods later the method was producing decent results.

            Setting up a simple funnel, is not so simple. Knowing how to set up a base that will get some amount of results, and then how to systematically test that funnel to a point of decent return... it takes experience, and in some cases tons of it. the science behind what it is WE ( the members of this sub-forum ) do... is down right silly.

            Success is NOT in the method, but the MASTERY of the method.

            My personal bias leans towards "Cold Calling" and "Cold Walk-ins" I don't pick up the phone book or buy a list and start calling away tho. I have a system... my cold is anyone elses warm. I know as much as I can about the business/person I am trying to contact. I try to sell passively. Selling for me is a process. Don't get me wrong tho, I do 1 call closes ( if the language and interest is right )

            Usually when I identify the indicators that point towards an ideal client.. its not something that can be targeted with social media. Its not something that SEO can target. I would be spending money hand over fist with PPC. It simply is identifying the best suited means to an end.

            There is no right or wrong here.. there is what works for you, and you, and you, and for me. This forum is about sharing OUR knowledge and experience. To argue over which is better is right up there with arguing which came first, the chicken or the egg?
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            • Profile picture of the author TCFKen
              Even if you need fast money why wouldn't you put together a legitimate marketing strategy and implement cold calling with it. Cold emails, mail, LinkedIn anything that can position you strongly before you get on the phone.

              I can think of 5 better ways to market yourself for free and implement cold calling with those strategies that will pull way better results than just cold calling alone. For the most part I think people like the idea of "dialing for dollars".. it's very simple but extremely limiting.

              Keep in mind, at some point in your business you're going to have to go beyond just calling. You're going to need multiple flows of marketing working for you if you really want to be successful, you might as well start learning them from the start.
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              • Profile picture of the author DWolfe
                Originally Posted by TCFKen View Post


                I can think of 5 better ways to market yourself for free and implement cold calling with those strategies that will pull way better results than just cold calling alone.
                Welcome to the offline section, looks like you are new to the WF. would you be interested in explaining about your other five steps ? This would help the newbies around here.
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                • Profile picture of the author Jason Kanigan
                  Originally Posted by DWolfe View Post

                  Welcome to the offline section, looks like you are new to the WF. would you be interested in explaining about your other five steps ? This would help the newbies around here.
                  Ken's account is new but he is not. I have known him for years and everything he says is legit. He has built a real business that is larger than most of the businesses that people have in this forum. You can go to the link in his signature and watch the training he has there.

                  Ken, I recommend you make longer posts so that people can understand that you do have legitimate knowledge. It was the first thing I thought of when I saw your new post last night.
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                  • Profile picture of the author TCFKen
                    Originally Posted by Jason Kanigan View Post

                    Ken's account is new but he is not. I have known him for years and everything he says is legit. He has built a real business that is larger than most of the businesses that people have in this forum. You can go to the link in his signature and watch the training he has there.

                    Ken, I recommend you make longer posts so that people can understand that you do have legitimate knowledge. It was the first thing I thought of when I saw your new post last night.
                    Hey thanks man, much appreciated. I'm putting together some posts for the group here, I think people will get a lot of value from them.

                    Let's chat soon
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                • Profile picture of the author TCFKen
                  Originally Posted by DWolfe View Post

                  Welcome to the offline section, looks like you are new to the WF. would you be interested in explaining about your other five steps ? This would help the newbies around here.
                  Absolutely, I'll give you some ideas on what's worked well for us.

                  1) Pick a NICHE market you can approach. Sending out any marketing from a generalized agency puts you in the same position as everyone else. Everyone talks about selling websites that bring in more sales... everyone. This was a good pitch in 2008.

                  Learn to speak their language and really understand the pain points of that market. At that point they won't ask for too much proof of you getting results, many will just assume it (although some will still ask).

                  2) Send a branded positioning piece of marketing. This doesn't have to be anything fancy or expensive.

                  We use email blasts to scraped email lists with positioning content and do a follow up call. We'll look at who opened our email then ask for the business owner. If the content is valuable they'll often times already know who you are. The chances of you having a conversation at that point are 100x stronger than a cold call.

                  You can do the same thing with LinkedIn. Shoot a niche specific video on how to dominate their market (make it educational, shoot for 5 minutes, talk about mobile trends etc.) and send it to people within the groups. You will get people responding to you because you sent valuable content vs. a cold message.

                  These are just a couple things we do to get clients. Position yourself with valuable info then have a conversation afterwards. I'll write a post on our main marketing strategies in the forum, I think it will answer a lot of questions for people.
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                  • Profile picture of the author DWolfe
                    Originally Posted by TCFKen View Post

                    Absolutely, I'll give you some ideas on what's worked well for us..
                    Great post I appreciate your response and will try some of these !

                    Thank you
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  • Profile picture of the author Tim Zager
    Yes, it is effective for people who understand how and want to do it. It is NOT for everyone. That should be obvious on every thread about cold calling.
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  • Profile picture of the author gcj1408
    Thank you for your replies.

    Gary Champion
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  • Profile picture of the author longrobnc
    Cold calling has actually been a hit or miss proposition for me. When I knew no other way to prospect it was the only thing that I did. I had some success and built a decent business from those calls. The issue that I've had is that I am the only person in my company that's ever been good at it. What Claude said was 100% correct for me. When I had no capital and had bills to pay it did help me grow to the point that I did have money to invest in testing ads. I probably had +$1MM in sales before I started investing in advertising.

    Once I started doing print ads and building a web presence the calls fell by the way side.

    I'd love to do JVs because I have thousands of customers in my list, but I've never thought of a way to structure deals to make sure that I get something out of the deal.

    I was considering finding trade partners in the home improvement niche. When I invoice a customer and drop them in my post sale email campaign it would include introductions to my trade partners with articles with valuable information that they provide. The trouble is that I have never thought of a way to hold others accountable to give me that same respect.

    I did 7k jobs this year in my local market, so I think that could be a great value to the right people. Just not sure what I get for my troubles.

    I also considered partnering with a few of my commercial customers. Maybe a Carwash chain and an Oil Change Franchise. I considered asking if they would consider letting me place a lead gen box or finding a way to get exposure with their client base if I bought X number of vouchers for their services.

    I would then use those vouchers in some way in my business as give aways.

    Just can't work the kinks out of any of this.
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  • Profile picture of the author jicenogle1
    Cold calling works depending on the product and what you're trying to do. Its really pretty basic though its a contact sport and you will not enjoy it. Its a grind day in and day out. As said earlier it is not for everyone.
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      One thing sometimes gets lost in the "Is cold calling effective" debate. There are lots of things you can do to make sales that are far more effective than cold calling. Joint ventures (where you market to someone else's list) referrals from ecstatic buyers, creating a marketing funnel where leads come to you ready to buy (or have already bought).

      All these things are more profitable and more fun (to me at least) that getting on the phone and calling strangers.

      But what are you doing when you are waiting for the sales funnel to produce leads? What are you doing when you have called all your referrals?

      May I make a suggestion? Cold calling finds people who happen to be ready to buy..when you called. I've made thousands and thousand of cold calls. And made thousands of high end sales from a cold call.

      I've bought several times...because someone called me at the exact moment that I was thinking of buying what they sold.

      I remember making a cold call (I think it was a car dealer. It was years ago), and he said something like "Why are you cold calling me?"

      And I asked him if he had salespeople on his floor. Of course he did. I asked him what he had his salespeople do, after all the referrals were called and all the followups were made.

      He hesitated and asked again, why I cold called. And I said "Because I'm ambitious".

      I remember him swearing and said something about "Damn it...I wish you worked for me. Come on in". Honestly, it's been too long ago, I don't remember if he bought. I barely remember being there.

      And if you just won't call new people, call your old customers. In my retail store, the single most profitable use of an hour...is calling my old customers saying that I was thinking of them and that I had something they may be interested in. These people will answer the phone when I call, like me, and will at least be nice when they say No. But an hour on the phone always generates sales. Always.

      And (for reasons beyond me) some people think calling their customer list (or their company's customer list) is cold calling. Not to me.

      To me, calling customers that have already bought from you or your company...is like mining for gold..in a vein of gold. It just doesn't get any better.
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      • Profile picture of the author Ron Lafuddy
        Another reason to cold call is...you will improve faster as a salesperson.

        Nothing will take you from zero to a large income faster than making the calls.

        On the phone. On the street. Or, a combination of both.

        Speed matters. Take action and reap the reward.

        Ron
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        • Profile picture of the author animal44
          Originally Posted by Ron Lafuddy View Post

          Nothing will take you from zero to a large income faster than making the calls.

          On the phone. On the street. Or, a combination of both.
          Here's what Halbert thought of selling (from salesletter "how to make maximum money in minimum time")
          Many years ago, I thought I wanted to be a salesman. I got myself a job selling encyclopedias door-to-door and I kept at it until I was dam good. But there was a problem. You see, I could only knock on about 40 doors each evening. And therefore, no matter how hard I worked, there was a definite ceiling on my earning capacity.
          And besides, selling door-to-door is a very hard way to make a living.
          My number one protege started with an email and people threw money at her. 100k in 30 days... 4.4 million in her first year. No need to cold call or wear out shoe leather...
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          • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
            Yup. If you are selling individually, in people's homes...there is a real limit to how much you can make. Halbert was an excellent copywriter, but he didn't use any of that knowledge to make his prospecting any more effective. Knocking on 40 doors to get an appointment is what rank beginners do.

            My average was six doors for one presentation. And that's because I wouldn't present to about half of the people willing to talk to me.

            But I get your idea. Yes, a real ceiling on earnings for an individual selling other individuals.By that, I mean it would be nearly impossible for an individual to earn a million dollars a year, selling in people's homes.

            For most of my selling life, (selling in people's homes) I made between $100,000 and $200,000 a year. But I was exceptional. I do know distributors, with dozens of salespeople working for them, that cracked a million a year though.

            Was it hard work selling to consumers? I suppose. Harder than watching TV. But not as hard as 95% of the jobs out there.

            Selling in people's homes (a tiny subset of selling) was difficult, only in that it required skills that almost nobody has.

            I will say that when I was selling my local online marketing service, I did it almost entirely from speaking to maybe ten groups a year, and that made me about half a million a year.

            Easily a million a year, had I given it any real effort.

            Originally Posted by animal44 View Post

            ")
            My number one protege started with an email and people threw money at her. 100k in 30 days... 4.4 million in her first year. No need to cold call or wear out shoe leather...
            I think by now, we all know that creating Joint Ventures has the capability of generating huge incomes.

            I wonder if an arms dealer will come on here and tell us that we are all making a mistake because he makes $100 million a year selling arms to dictators.....and we are fools for not being in the arms dealing business. Or an actor coming on here and telling us we are all fools, because he makes $100 million a year as a top actor....and we aren't actors.

            And Bill Gates should come on here and tell us that we are all fools, even the Joint Venture guy...because we aren't smart enough to be in the technology development business.

            I think that would help put us all in our place.
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            • Profile picture of the author animal44
              Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

              I wonder if an arms dealer will come on here and tell us that we are all making a mistake because he makes $100 million a year selling arms to dictators.....and we are fools for not being in the arms dealing business. Or an actor coming on here and telling us we are all fools, because he makes $100 million a year as a top actor....and we aren't actors.

              And Bill Gates should come on here and tell us that we are all fools, even the Joint Venture guy...because we aren't smart enough to be in the technology development business.
              But it's OK to talk cr*p. Perhaps ya'all should tell Bill Gates he should give back his billions and take up cold calling, because to quite Ron "Nothing will take you from zero to a large income faster than making the calls"

              In any case, I was refuting Ron's clearly false statement, not telling you or anyone else what they should do...

              Oh, and I can think of a gazillion things I'd do while "waiting for the sales funnel to produce leads"
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              • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                Originally Posted by animal44 View Post

                But it's OK to talk cr*p. Perhaps ya'all should tell Bill Gates he should give back his billions and take up cold calling, because to quite Ron "Nothing will take you from zero to a large income faster than making the calls"


                This is a thread about selling, and cold calling effectiveness. Not which business makes the most money.

                That was my point.
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                • Profile picture of the author animal44
                  Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                  This is a thread about selling, and cold calling effectiveness. Not which business makes the most money.

                  That was my point.
                  And how do you measure your cold calling effectiveness...?

                  Could it be the number of sales you make? i.e. the amount of money you make...?

                  Then you have to have something to compare it to... To decide if it's effective...
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                  • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                    Originally Posted by animal44 View Post

                    And how do you measure your cold calling effectiveness...?

                    Could it be the number of sales you make? i.e. the amount of money you make...?

                    Then you have to have something to compare it to... To decide if it's effective...
                    Good. An intelligent question worth answering.

                    I would compare it to other methods I use to prospect for sales. And I would measure it by dollars earned per hour while prospecting/selling in total.

                    I would not compare it to completely separate industries.

                    And the reason I wouldn't normally do that, is because that wasn't the subject being discussed, and my statement, while true...wouldn't help anyone.

                    And about what Gary Halbert wrote. He was selling something. He had to position selling as the "Before" picture, so that whatever he was promoting would look better by comparison. It was almost certainly a "rags to riches" comparison, with whatever he was selling positioned as the only cure..the Secret.

                    If your motive is truly to add value here, and you hate the idea of cold calling, why not talk about how you prospect for sales...even if it's how to find Joint Venture partners....and how to approach them......anything except "My business is better than your business"

                    Because that helps nobody.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Ron Lafuddy
                      Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                      Good. An intelligent question worth answering.

                      I would compare it to other methods I use to prospect for sales. And I would measure it by dollars earned per hour while prospecting/selling in total.

                      I would not compare it to completely separate industries.

                      And the reason I wouldn't normally do that, is because that wasn't the subject being discussed, and my statement, while true...wouldn't help anyone.

                      And about what Gary Halbert wrote. He was selling something. He had to position selling as the "Before" picture, so that whatever he was promoting would look better by comparison. It was almost certainly a "rags to riches" comparison, with whatever he was selling positioned as the only cure..the Secret.

                      If your motive is truly to add value here, and you hate the idea of cold calling, why not talk about how you prospect for sales...even if it's how to find Joint Venture partners....and how to approach them......anything except "My business is better than your business"

                      Because that helps nobody.
                      Yep. This is a thread about cold calling and things related.

                      Someone may want to start a thread on joint ventures. I've done them. So have others here.

                      They're a different discipline. They involve negotiation. They involve legal agreements, that may or may not include performance clauses.

                      No one will be throwing money at you. In fact, just the opposite. You may find yourself having to enforce the agreement in court. Make sure you do it right and hire an attorney.

                      Judges don't take kindly to those who draft their own contracts, without a legal advisor.

                      Over and out.

                      Ron
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                • Profile picture of the author animal44
                  Originally Posted by socialentry View Post

                  OK so in a nutshell...

                  You buy a swipe files, copy/paste and plug in the client's info, get paid, do the mailing and make (insert SMB owner here) 36 k + ? All in a couple of hour's work?

                  ...and.... that's about it? Swipe file is that powerful?
                  There's nothing more to it then this?
                  Quick answer, yes.

                  However, swipe files are usually copyrighted. You can't just cut and paste. You need to create your own variations. Once you have a couple of these, it's then simply a matter of editing an offer into the letter/email.

                  Or, you could buy the rights to an already successful campaign. And by "Buy", I mean you could do a JV deal where you say "give me the rights and I'll sell the campaign to non competing businesses and we'll share the proceeds", so no up front costs.

                  Or, you can create your own unique sets. This is what I got my proteges to do. Then they go out and found someone to "test" them on and used the results as proof that they worked.
                  Originally Posted by socialentry View Post

                  I have to ask about the caveats.I don't know anything about copywriting.
                  I'm not a copywriter. I'm pretty bad at writing in general. None of my proteges were copywriters. You don't need a copywriter to write to a friend... :-)
                  Originally Posted by socialentry View Post

                  I mean can't these kind of campaigns outright fail?
                  Possibly. However we've never had a failure in that no sales have been made. I consider the example you quoted as a failure because the response was pretty low. The business owner was still happy.

                  The "secret" is that a personal letter will always outperform an Ad. An advertorial will always outperform the usual blatant Ad that most small businesses use. An unusual "reason why" will always outperform the usual "bank holiday sale", "black friday sale", or "winter sale". And making people feel special will always outperform a generic Ad. Combine all or any of those and you have an almost certain winner. And by winner, I mean it will make more sales than whatever the business owner is doing now. And if you continue to test and tweak as you do, you can get some spectacular results.
                  Originally Posted by socialentry View Post

                  Can one (without any experience) really make claims on the basis of "Well, the seller of the swipe file claims that in 20XX it made him XXX K$. The prospect's business is very similar. It should work for him also"?

                  Is that it or is there something I'm missing?
                  You really only need one success to sell it as a "proven" campaign. Then you stack one success on another until you're famous :-)
                  It's not your experience, you're selling, it's the "proven" campaign.
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  • Profile picture of the author Yvon Boulianne
    It work and CAN be very fun and enjoyable BUT for that you have to be on top of your game, very high communication ability and an extravert personality...

    I had a lot of troubles cracking that code but i now close 2-5K deal on the phone laughing with clients

    good luck
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Nguyen
    I just got of this lead I've been working straight from a cold call. We've spoken a few times. The first offer was to do PPC for a small management fee but somehow the offer changed. Its gone from a $200 offer to offering him telemarketing services for a total value of $2500. Qualified on all fronts, I just need to put in writing and close.

    Whether I get the job, is not the point. The point is I got a new lead from cold calling into my funnel which gives me a chance to close. Since coming back on 4th Jan, I have found probably 4-5 good opportunity leads which I will get in front off.

    Tomorrow I have a meeting with a lead that wanted 1 website originally, then its changed to 2, but its going to be 4 websites now.

    Is it effective? Only if you have good sales and prospecting skills otherwise it will be rubbish for you.
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    • Profile picture of the author animal44
      Originally Posted by Michael Nguyen View Post

      I just got of this lead I've been working straight from a cold call. We've spoken a few times.
      Then it's not a cold call.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_calling
      Cold calling is defined as the solicitation of business from potential customers who have had no prior contact with the salesperson conducting the call.
      Originally Posted by Michael Nguyen View Post

      Is it effective? Only if you have good sales and prospecting skills otherwise it will be rubbish for you.
      So why would it be the best method for a rank beginner...?
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      • Profile picture of the author Michael Nguyen
        Originally Posted by animal44 View Post

        Then it's not a cold call.

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_calling



        So why would it be the best method for a rank beginner...?
        My original contact with him was from a cold call. Just because I didn't do a one call close doesn't mean it wasn't from cold calling.
        I don't recall saying, it was the best method for a beginner. Stop picking holes mate. We get you don't like cold calling, maybe you should teach us to do jvs and get quick leads in 7 days.
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        • Profile picture of the author mak25
          Animal44, you're act is getting a wee bit old now, don't you think?

          It's become apparently clear after 100's if not 1000's of your posts belittling phone prospecting, that you're not a fan of such practices. Why do you continue to beat that dead horse? Do you get some sort of carnal delight from your constant negativity, and phone bashing?

          We get your point and perspective by now. Stop it already.

          If anything, like Michael suggested, why don't you with your seemingly infinite wisdom on such matters, start a thread to educate those who would learn how to do JV's and get quick leads in 7 days?

          Otherwise, stop trolling threads that have to do with cold phone prospecting just to spew your venom.

          Fair enough?
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        • Profile picture of the author animal44
          Originally Posted by Michael Nguyen View Post

          I don't recall saying, it was the best method for a beginner.
          Yes, Claude was the culprit...

          Originally Posted by Michael Nguyen View Post

          We get you don't like cold calling, maybe you should teach us to do jvs and get quick leads in 7 days.
          There's a free blog post that gives you more info than I had when I started....

          However I would point out that I didn't bring up JVs in this thread... And less than half my posts mention JVs, and even less are against cold calling.

          Originally Posted by mak25 View Post

          It's become apparently clear after 100's if not 1000's of your posts belittling phone prospecting, that you're not a fan of such practices.
          I have 244 posts. Only a few mention cold calling.
          Originally Posted by mak25 View Post

          Why do you continue to beat that dead horse?
          Why continue to promote the most time consuming, inefficient, least effective and most annoying to most people, method of prospecting. Not to mention the one method that 99.99% of people dread doing...?

          Originally Posted by mak25 View Post

          If anything, like Michael suggested, why don't you with your seemingly infinite wisdom on such matters, start a thread to educate those who would learn how to do JV's and get quick leads in 7 days?
          Already done in a free blog entry...
          Originally Posted by mak25 View Post

          Otherwise, stop trolling threads that have to do with cold phone prospecting just to spew your venom.
          Venom? Really...?

          I guess Savage4 was wrong when he said
          Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

          This forum is about sharing OUR knowledge and experience.
          Guess it only applies if you are a member of the cold calling fan club...

          Are you aware of the ignore button... If you don't like my posts then feel free to use it (the ignore button).

          Though you'll miss the next exciting instalment - a great prospecting method suitable for newbies that doesn't involve cold calling or JVs... Coming soon in a thread near you...!
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          • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
            Originally Posted by animal44 View Post

            Why continue to promote the most time consuming, inefficient, least effective and most annoying to most people, method of prospecting. Not to mention the one method that 99.99% of people dread doing...?
            The answer is, Newbies keep asking about it, and/or posting their results. And, although many of us do far more effective prospecting now, or none at all...we did it in the beginning, so we share what we know.

            A thread about Joint Ventures would sure be more beneficial to us old dogs,. Know anyone who would start one?


            Originally Posted by animal44 View Post

            So why would it be the best method for a rank beginner...?
            Because it requires no sales funnel. It requires no relationship already built with the prospect. It requires no extensive knowledge of how to do joint ventures. You can start today, and get a client by the end of the week.

            Those are the real answers to why newbies are attracted to it. And it's also why it is usually the method newbies are taught.
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            • Profile picture of the author animal44
              Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

              The answer is, Newbies keep asking about it, and/or posting their results.
              Only because they come on a forum like this and see everyone talking about cold calling and assume that's the only way...

              And if someone came up to you and asked "what's the best way to commit suicide", would you simply give the options, or would you try to talk them out of it...?
              Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

              You can start today, and get a client by the end of the week.
              That's not true though. There was a post just before Christmas - I couldn't find it with a quick search - where someone posted that they'd made 500 calls with zero results. I reckon that's what most newbies would experience.

              Even Michael agrees with me
              Only if you have good sales and prospecting skills otherwise it will be rubbish for you.
              As I said:
              a great prospecting method suitable for newbies that doesn't involve cold calling or JVs...
              coming soon...
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              • Profile picture of the author savidge4
                Animal44,

                as much as I agree with everything you say... sure there are Other ways, there may even be better ways.. but NONE of the ways without any experience work well.

                You cant start mass e-mailing tomorrow and expect results. you cant build a squeeze page and send paid traffic to it tomorrow with no previous experience and expect results. you cant be starting from scratch and expect to meet in person or by calling anyone and expect to lock into a JV deal.

                The reality is you have to start somewhere... AND if you are smart enough to have the ability to change what isn't working, I think the phone is the easiest place to create a positive return.

                THAT being said... "Smart Enough" is a stretch... there is simply that point that stupid is as stupid does, and then there are those that learn on their feet and adapt.

                I think a HUGE variable in this is the age of someone and their experiences in life. When you are young and in college or just out of your phone contact list is full of friends and girls / guys etc... as you get older... personal listings in your phone is your wife your kids your mom and dad a couple of friends, and that's about it. the other 300 I have in my phone, and damn near 10,000 in a spread sheet... all business related. That's the advantage of being 47. LOL ( the only advantage )

                Regardless of the avenue of contact.. there is something in the voice... In the words, in the tone, be it printed or spoken, that says "Authority" Its not something you learn, its something you earn. Confidence is only developed by doing - and doing repeatedly. Not only believing, but KNOWING you can make a difference for that client... that is where sales are made.

                I say it here and in other places all the time.. Be it web design, or SEO or CRO or whatever.. build a amazon site and build your site... learn to sell, and learn to develop leads. This really is not an exercise in producing income... it is putting that experience under your belt... its EARNING that confidence, that says Yes I know what the hell I am talking about... Its the tone in what we say that has the authority, and people say Yes I want to work with you.

                Originally Posted by animal44 View Post

                Only because they come on a forum like this and see everyone talking about cold calling and assume that's the only way...

                And if someone came up to you and asked "what's the best way to commit suicide", would you simply give the options, or would you try to talk them out of it...?

                That's not true though. There was a post just before Christmas - I couldn't find it with a quick search - where someone posted that they'd made 500 calls with zero results. I reckon that's what most newbies would experience.

                Even Michael agrees with me


                As I said:

                coming soon...
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                • Profile picture of the author animal44
                  Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

                  The reality is you have to start somewhere... AND if you are smart enough to have the ability to change what isn't working, I think the phone is the easiest place to create a positive return.
                  It's not the use of the phone I object to it's the random cold calling of people who have not shown any interest in whatever you're offering. It's far from easy for most people to do this...

                  All things being equal, a referral will exponentially increase your chances of doing a deal (compared to cold calling a total stranger). So the fastest way of getting a cheque is to let everyone around you know what you are offering. Friends, family, business associates, people you already buy from. These are people who already know you and, unless you've got a reputation as a total loser, they'll want to help.

                  Even strangers you can use. If you're new in town ask your landlord/landlady/Hotel desk clerk/maid/waitress/anyone you have contact with, "who's the best person to talk to about..." and suddenly you've got a referral. And when you talk to that person, they'll want to live up to their reputation of being the best person to talk to...
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                  • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
                    Originally Posted by animal44 View Post

                    "who's the best person to talk to about..." and suddenly you've got a referral. And when you talk to that person, they'll want to live up to their reputation of being the best person to talk to...
                    In my company that sells paper for the point of sale machines, that question you mentioned is used because we don't know who is the right person.

                    The only difference to what you said, is we call on cold to ask that question.

                    The closest thing to a jv type of arrangement we've done is
                    finding other businesses who want to reach the same type of clients as us
                    to share in the cost of printing and mailing which advertise our products/services.

                    Couldn't find a partner.

                    This is still "cold" in the sense the prospective mailing partner never heard of us
                    and the recipient of the mailer wouldn't of heard of us either.

                    You've linked to a direct mail letter I've posted which was from a builder going out to architects...it's cold in the true sense because the architects had never heard of the builder before.

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                  • Profile picture of the author savidge4
                    Originally Posted by animal44 View Post

                    Friends, family, business associates, people you already buy from. These are people who already know you and, unless you've got a reputation as a total loser, they'll want to help.
                    I have a young man that I am currently employing through contract work. Recent graduated college, works at the Outback as a server. His Dad is a framer, and his mother works at Walmart. your basic typical family. The young man has a degree in Graphic arts. His parents want nothing more than the boy to get a "real Job" and work out the rest of his years in misery Just as they have done. The whole concept of doing what you love, vs doing what you have to do to survive has never been a reality for these people.. and I can safely say the same dichotomy over and over with 99% of the world.

                    MY own parents don't get what I do.. forget the success I have.. I should get a real job. The same with the in-laws... I enjoy what I do, get paid well.. but I am not suffering, as they do - HOW DARE I DO THIS.

                    I cant think of once in my life I have gotten a referral from my family, not once. I will say that I do work with my step dad.. but the working relationship is one sided, I find the work and he completes the needed task. ( is a does video work in the Palm Beach FL area if anyone needs some work done lol )

                    referring to my case example the young man that graduated college with a "skill" but is having a hard time finding work... Looking at his immediate source of contacts - fellow waiters etc, it really is not a very hot source of referral.

                    Let me clarify something here.. I am in no way saying this cant be done... but what I am saying is that, I would not consider this route any easier. IF you really look at the last suggestion... in a city you don't know anyone and you start asking people you walk into and interact with... what exactly is the difference in doing THIS vs getting on the phone and doing the same? make a pitch... get rejected, ask if they know anyone that they could refer. I honestly do not see the difference.

                    Look at the text you chose to peel out of my post and respond to... "The reality is you have to start somewhere... AND if you are smart enough to have the ability to change what isn't working, I think the phone is the easiest place to create a positive return." Having the ability to see what it is in what you are doing that is not working, is the key here.

                    I am in no way disagreeing with JV relationships... again I am saying that there needs to be a bit of ground work in place to make even these efforts more effective. I think this is true in all forms of attracting new clients. Cold calling from the yellow pages is stupid.. there in some way needs to be a bit of ground work identifying better suited clients in those pages to make your efforts more fruitful.

                    BUT.. you and I and many here, understand Targeting.. we are smart enough and have a proven ability to change what isn't working to what is... I think this is every individuals path to business growth. The first hurdle in business is getting business. the next hurdle becomes creating a sustainable flow of business. after that you start looking at maintain the business you have, and then there is the point you look at scaling what it is you offer.

                    If you cant get past the first hurdle, you simply are not smart enough or adaptive enough to succeed and need to keep your day job. The young man I speak of here... he sadly is falling into this category.. the drive isn't there, the ability to adapt isn't there. He says "I tried this and it failed" I say "How many times did you try?" he says "I contacted 15 people" I say "that's really not enough to determine its not working.. but if you had to look at those 15, what is it that is not working?" he says "what do you mean?" I say "How did you position your service?" he gives me the same answer as the other bunch of failed attempts... how many times do you need to put the snake in your coat before you understand in doing so you are going to be bit?

                    I keep waiting for him to have that "There has got to be a better way" moment. You cant hand that moment to someone in a box... it has to be experienced. And I honestly think if you have the "Smarts" and the "Ability to Adapt" getting on the phone is the quickest way to that wall.
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              • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                You can start today, and get a client by the end of the week.

                Originally Posted by animal44 View Post

                That's not true though. There was a post just before Christmas - I couldn't find it with a quick search - where someone posted that they'd made 500 calls with zero results. I reckon that's what most newbies would experience.
                It isn't that you disagree with me, it's that your logic is bad.

                I believe (although it's difficult) that someone made 500 cold phone calls without a single appointment or sale. I'm not sure what the caller said that caused 500 people in a row to say "No", but I suppose it's possible.

                But I said you could cold call and make a sale by the end of the week.
                And you said it wasn't true. And your proof is that you heard about one person who tried it...and failed.

                Here is how that sounds to me, "Joint ventures don't work, because I know a guy that worked at it for a week, and couldn't set up a joint venture". See how ridiculous that sounds?

                Nearly ever method to build your business is more fun than cold calling. And will get better results. But saying that it doesn't work, when there are people here who make a good living, doing just that (including me for many years) is just silly.

                For decades, if I didn't have an appointment for that evening, and I wanted one, within an hour or so on the phone, or knocking on doors, I would be on a presentation. And that was almost every time. These were calls to complete strangers, who had no idea that I even existed.

                Granted, I'm not a moron. But a moron would also have a real hard time putting together a Joint Venture, wouldn't they?

                The only reason for my post was to show that your answer to my statement was nonsense. And if a newbie read it, they may get the wrong idea.
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          • Profile picture of the author Ron Lafuddy
            Originally Posted by animal44 View Post

            a great prospecting method suitable for newbies that doesn't involve cold calling or JVs... Coming soon in a thread near you...!
            An impressive 1,743 views as of this point. Not bad guys.

            The "anti-cold calling" posts are a bit boring. (Sorry)

            Only so many ways to "fry that egg", eh?.

            Still, you'll get plenty of views for whatever it is you're planning to hype in the future.
            Make it better than your previous stuff, and I think you'll probably do well with it.

            Ol' Ron is your friend for bumpin' this one.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jake Sacks
    Typical cold calling where you go into it selling barely works. You must find an alternative way to get through.


    What I mean is -

    Calling a business and offering them "SEO" is something that is a thing of the past. You will be making a lot of calls before you have any success whatsoever. You need to find a way of offering these services without actually directly selling immediately.
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  • Profile picture of the author cjsparacino123
    This thread gave me the courage to go out there and start making some calls!
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  • Profile picture of the author J50
    Most energy procurement companies in the UK are built on cold calling.
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  • Profile picture of the author SalesGod
    When I first started my company It was only me making cold calls by myself. I was making them on Behalf of a company to set up appointments for there sales reps. I would consistently set 2 appointments a day at the time and with the industry that I'm in, the company closes 2 out of 5 appointments and makes 20-30k revenue from that. Now of course there's always appointments that cancel however I was consistently bringing in the company at least 2 sales a week and I only worked from 5pm - 730. Still think cold calling can't make money? I now have a room of cold callers on a auto dialer producing way better results then I was, when I was sitting at home Dialing manually with my landline and can't hire fast enough to keep up with the demand of companies that want to work with us.
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  • Profile picture of the author NEMESH
    Banned
    Yes it is still in work. Various little organizations use this technique for sales and marketing.
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    • Profile picture of the author animal44
      Originally Posted by ewenmack View Post

      In my company that sells paper for the point of sale machines, that question you mentioned is used because we don't know who is the right person.

      The only difference to what you said, is we call on cold to ask that question.
      Another difference is that I tend to incorporate questions like this in my day to day interactions. As a result I rarely have to take specific actions to market my services. It's all integrated into my day, whether I'm on business or not. This, in turn, leads to "accidental clients".

      Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

      I have a young man that I am currently employing through contract work. Recent graduated college, works at the Outback as a server. His Dad is a framer, and his mother works at Walmart. your basic typical family. The young man has a degree in Graphic arts. His parents want nothing more than the boy to get a "real Job" and work out the rest of his years in misery Just as they have done. The whole concept of doing what you love, vs doing what you have to do to survive has never been a reality for these people.. and I can safely say the same dichotomy over and over with 99% of the world.

      MY own parents don't get what I do.. forget the success I have.. I should get a real job. The same with the in-laws... I enjoy what I do, get paid well.. but I am not suffering, as they do - HOW DARE I DO THIS.
      We could quote experiences all day. My parents would have been rubbish at referrals.

      By contrast, my neighbours are mostly retired executive types. They're always using their network to help their sons and daughters and grandchildren all the time. I personally think this is the norm. Parents will generally go out of their way to help their offspring.

      I had a mate from school. We spent a lot of time together creating mischief as teenagers do. He became a computer hardware engineer, I became a software engineer. If I had've wanted a new job or a new client I am 100% certain he would've helped and vice versa. That's what mates do... In fact, even though we haven't spoken in over 20 years, I'm confident if I went back there he'd be willing to help me find clients.

      Locally, I don't know many people in my town. I've spent most of the years I've lived here travelling elsewhere. However a neighbour who moved here a few years after us, knows everyone. We're not great friends, we don't really socialise unless it's by accident that we happen to attend the same event. Despite this, he knows what I do and I've had unsolicited referrals from him. If I needed to meet with someone in the town, I am pretty confident he'd be happy to introduce me.
      Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

      I cant think of once in my life I have gotten a referral from my family, not once.
      Have you ever asked...?
      Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

      IF you really look at the last suggestion... in a city you don't know anyone and you start asking people you walk into and interact with... what exactly is the difference in doing THIS vs getting on the phone and doing the same? make a pitch... get rejected, ask if they know anyone that they could refer. I honestly do not see the difference.
      The difference should be obvious...

      Walk up to a stranger and ask directions. Most people will be helpful.
      Walk up to the same stranger and try and sell them something. You'll get a totally different reaction.

      First part is asking someone for help, from which you get a referral.
      The second part is you approach a stranger, not as a total stranger, but as the result of a referral. Referrals of any kind, hugely increase your chances of success.

      I spent the major portion of my life travelling the world. I'd regularly find myself in a strange town, in a strange country, wanting to earn some travelling money. I'd find work as described. There is not one case where I was ever unsuccessful. And it did not involve hundreds of telephone calls. Usually involved speaking to maybe half a dozen people at most...

      Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

      But I said you could cold call and make a sale by the end of the week.
      And you said it wasn't true. And your proof is that you heard about one person who tried it...and failed.
      You missed the bit where I said
      I reckon that's what most newbies would experience.
      And it's not just one person.
      You've previously stated you failed when you started out.

      And Nathan (IAmNameLess) states in his WSO, that a beginner can expect to make 1000 calls to get one client. And he gives a script to use... Is Nathan wrong too?

      How many beginners would give up before 500 calls? or 1000?

      The example I gave earlier, the guy was ready to throw himself under a train after 50 calls...

      By contrast the way I describe would typically require maybe two dozen emails to get a client or three. These are emails to people who know you and are willing to help - if not, you need to change your circle of friends.
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      • Profile picture of the author sconer
        Originally Posted by animal44 View Post

        And Nathan (IAmNameLess) states in his WSO, that a beginner can expect to make 1000 calls to get one client. And he gives a script to use... Is Nathan wrong too?

        How many beginners would give up before 500 calls? or 1000?

        The example I gave earlier, the guy was ready to throw himself under a train after 50 calls...

        By contrast the way I describe would typically require maybe two dozen emails to get a client or three. These are emails to people who know you and are willing to help - if not, you need to change your circle of friends.
        As someone who never cold called and doesn't particularly like it, I really don't see your point in this. 1,000 cold calls can be made in a few days.

        I spent 80-90 hours a week on my business for the first few years and I wish I could have found a new client every few days at the beginning.

        If someone is willing to give up after 500 or 1,000 calls, they don't have what it takes to be in this position and should go find a job that doesn't require any initiative.

        The person you mentioned who wanted to give up after 50 calls (a couple hours of work) must have been looking for a get rich quick scheme. If you're not putting 16 hours a day into your new business, you simply aren't trying.
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      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
        Originally Posted by animal44 View Post

        You missed the bit where I said
        And it's not just one person.
        You've previously stated you failed when you started out.

        And Nathan (IAmNameLess) states in his WSO, that a beginner can expect to make 1000 calls to get one client. And he gives a script to use... Is Nathan wrong too?

        How many beginners would give up before 500 calls? or 1000?

        The example I gave earlier, the guy was ready to throw himself under a train after 50 calls...

        I admit, that new cold callers are abysmal. And nearly every cold call I get is abysmal.
        When I started, I was just as terrible as everyone else. But it didn't take long, through sheer trial and error, before one out of six cold calls to complete strangers got me an appointment. One out of six calls (contacts) calling the white pages of the phone book.

        I mean before I really knew how to sell in depth, and how to only see highly likely prospects, and do all the marketing involved. I was still bright, I was still articulate. And I didn't sound absolutely shocked if someone would talk to me.

        In fact, for several years, before I really knew what I was doing, here were my stats;

        Cold calls on the phone to set appointment; 6
        Percentage of the time I actually presented to them (because of bad appointments, not home, not qualified, or for a load of other reasons)..about 33%

        Sold about a third of those.
        That was about 54 cold calls (contacts, not dials) per net sale. That's if I did the calling.

        When I knocked on doors, it was about one sale for every 6 doors that opened. One out of three would look at my product, and I closed about half. I could qualify better when I was in person.

        I don't have Nathan's WSO. I don't know the script or the product. But, My God, calling 1,000 people for one sale? I mean actually talking to 1,000 people, before one demands that you let them buy? I find that unbelievable.

        On the other hand, I do read the newbie "scripts" that some people use here. And frankly, some of them virtually guarantee that nobody will buy. Some are so bad, I don't even comment, because I believe they cannot be helped.

        When I said that you could cold call & have a client by the end of the week, I meant if you cold called a list of possible prospects (a demographic that could conceivably buy), and knew what to say, and didn't sound like a complete moron when you got them on the phone. I said this;

        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        You can start today, and get a client by the end of the week.
        I did not say that anyone on the planet, would be able to get a client by the end of the week, by cold calling. We all have different aptitudes and competencies.

        I admit, I sometimes forget how absolutely terrible some people are at this. Even some with years of experience. I don't mean Nathan.

        Again, my post was just to point out that your one example, didn't mean that what I said wasn't true, which is what you stated.


        Originally Posted by animal44 View Post

        By contrast the way I describe would typically require maybe two dozen emails to get a client or three. These are emails to people who know you and are willing to help - if not, you need to change your circle of friends.
        I believe you. And I believe, based on your posts, that you are well respected, and are connected socially to business people who could help you...and would want to. And so am I.

        But...that isn't what we were talking about. You said that cold calling to make a sale by the end of the week, wouldn't work. That statement isn't true.

        Frankly it's been awhile since I've had to cold call. I think I did it for two day a few years ago, to give an example in a book I wrote. If I remember correctly, I cold called for maybe 5 hours, and ended up with two paying clients (over $10,000 the first year) out of three presentations. And I think I got something like 15 or 17 appointments. Whatever it says in my prospecting book.


        But this discussion isn't about what works best.

        It's about, will cold calling get you customers/clients. The answer, with a little training, and intelligence... is Yes.
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        • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
          Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

          I admit, that new cold callers are abysmal. And nearly every cold call I get is abysmal.
          When I started, I was just as terrible as everyone else. But it didn't take long, through sheer trial and error, before one out of six cold calls to complete strangers got me an appointment. One out of six calls (contacts) calling the white pages of the phone book.


          I don't have Nathan's WSO. I don't know the script or the product. But, My God, calling 1,000 people for one sale? I mean actually talking to 1,000 people, before one demands that you let them buy? I find that unbelievable.


          I admit, I sometimes forget how absolutely terrible some people are at this. Even some with years of experience. I don't mean Nathan.

          Again, my post was just to point out that your one example, didn't mean that what I said wasn't true, which is what you stated.

          I believe you. And I believe, based on your posts, that you are well respected, and are connected socially to business people who could help you...and would want to. And so am I.

          But...that isn't what we were talking about. You said that cold calling to make a sale by the end of the week, wouldn't work. That statement isn't true.
          Just thought I would chime in here.

          What you're talking about Claude, is very different than my beliefs on cold calling. I believe converting 1 in 6 cold prospects is very doable even for people with half the skill you have.

          What I tell people, so they don't develop the wrong expectations is they can expect 1 lead per 100 dials and 10 leads before 1 sale.

          I believe that to be extremely accurate for beginners. When calling b2b vs. b2c you probably get in touch with the prospect less, because of screening, gatekeepers, etc.

          Hell, you may only talk to one or two business owners per 100 dials if you're having a bad day or at a bad section of your list. The numbers can also vary based on the industry you're calling, assuming you're dialing from a list within the same industry.

          My examples of the numbers given on my blog, posts here, WSO and wherever else are just a generalized figure. It's impossible for me or anyone else to account for all the potential variables that happen.

          However... one point is very important. When I say dials... I mean dials... not contacts.

          I for one, don't think cold calling is efficient. That said, I have generated a lot of sales by cold calling... I also had a team of people cold calling in my office. I wouldn't have done that if it didn't work or didn't provide a decent return.

          Also, 1,000 dials isn't very hard to make. Manually dialing it can be done in 3 days pretty easily even by someone new. Use an auto dialer and it can be done almost in a day.

          If you're paying $15/hr for telemarketers and you continue with those awful numbers and no auto dialer, your cost is $600/week but a conservative estimate of revenue per telemarketer with say... $1,400 websites... would bring you $2,800. You consider the hourly pay and lets say you have 50% margins when you factor in fulfillment/operating expenses/etc. After expenses, wages, etc. you make $800 profit per employee per week without factoring in future upsells, or recurring services. (keep in mind I'm grossly underestimating here lol)

          Cold calling isn't an "either, or" proposition.

          It's part of an overall marketing strategy.

          Know your numbers, no matter what you're doing to generate leads and sales, and you will profit.

          I think why people are so pro-cold calling is because once you've done it and have been successful with it... you know that whenever money is tight or whenever you're in a bind, you can pick up the phone and dial your way out of it. I have 100% confidence if I wanted to do some dialing tomorrow (or today, thursday) I will have a sale by monday, probably by Friday.

          I also can't recommend cold calling for EVERYONE... I've seen some pretty bad situations where people can't be helped. More often though, it's the things going on outside of the call that are going to cause someone to fail.

          Efficient... no, not for most people. Doesn't mean it isn't profitable.
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      • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
        Originally Posted by animal44 View Post


        And Nathan (IAmNameLess) states in his WSO, that a beginner can expect to make 1000 calls to get one client. And he gives a script to use... Is Nathan wrong too?

        How many beginners would give up before 500 calls? or 1000?

        The example I gave earlier, the guy was ready to throw himself under a train after 50 calls...
        Let's be clear. Most people give up before making 1 call. Most people give up long before they really do anything, and I'm not just talking about cold calling!

        I don't really don't give much of a script. I encourage people to have conversations with business owners. I'm not a scripty guy. Also, you'll notice that the section about cold calling in my WSO is just one of many ways to generate leads, and one of the shorter sections when it comes to client acquisition.

        I'm a believer in it... but I think relying on any one method is a recipe for disaster or at the very least going to stunt your growth.
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        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
          Originally Posted by iAmNameLess View Post

          I'm a believer in it... but I think relying on any one method is a recipe for disaster or at the very least going to stunt your growth.
          Nathan; Excellent post here and above.
          To me, cold calling is kind of industry specific. If you are calling to sell Better Business Bureau
          memberships, maybe cold calling business owners is the best way forever.

          Brokers used to call millionaire lists, for years, until they built up a huge clientele. Maybe they still do.

          I started out selling life insurance, and cold calling is what got me started. Eventually, I started working referrals, and cold visiting companies to sell the employees insurance. Great leverage there.

          If I owned a large phone room, I may have my guys cold call. But they would call lists that are at east a little qualified. Maybe call list of Other People's Customers. Maybe lists of former customers.

          But for selling to business owners, by myself? Yes, if you don't eventually use more sophisticated methods, to find likely buyers, you will hit a plateau.

          My biggest gains in selling came when I started implementing marketing strategies with my sales strategies.
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          • Profile picture of the author animal44
            Another example, even with Claude's help, he couldn't make a sale even to a targeted list

            If you've failed with cold calling or just don't want to annoy a lot of potential prospects, try what I suggested instead.
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            • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
              Originally Posted by animal44 View Post

              Another example, even with Claude's help, he couldn't make a sale even to a targeted list

              If you've failed with cold calling or just don't want to annoy a lot of potential prospects, try what I suggested instead.
              The "example" in your first sentence does not prove anything.

              As for your second "example" of how to get business, I manage a hotel and
              I am not likely to "refer" or be a "reference" for a stranger to another local
              business person.

              Please drop your anti-cold calling agenda and jabs at other forum members.

              Please realize that telemarketing is going to fall in the offline section because there is
              not a sub-forum for telemarketing like there is for SEO and CRO and Social Media...

              Please just make solid contributions in areas where you do have the expertise and experience.

              Dan
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            • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
              Originally Posted by animal44 View Post

              Another example, even with Claude's help, he couldn't make a sale even to a targeted list
              Unless I missed it - Claude did not post in that thread.

              and even if he did - you can't learn sales through reading a post or two
              or even reading a book for that matter.
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              • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
                Originally Posted by kenmichaels View Post

                Unless I missed it - Claude did not post in that thread.

                and even if he did - you can't learn sales through reading a post or two
                or even reading a book for that matter.
                Yes. Important clarification. OP in that thread mentioned that he had read Claude's books and
                is really just getting started on cold calling his target market.
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            • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
              Originally Posted by animal44 View Post

              Another example, even with Claude's help, he couldn't make a sale even to a targeted list
              Your behavior is difficult to understand.

              I didn't try to help the guy in the other thread. I don't know him. He just read a book or mine.

              How many people here have read your posts on Joint Ventures, and yet still haven't done a successful joint venture, even with your "help"?

              You seem to take glee in finding people who are inept at cold calling, to try to bolster your point of view.

              Your thought process escapes me.

              Maybe I should also mention that way less than 1% of the people that read a book on selling, implement anything in the book. And nearly every question I get by e-mail (from one of my readers) is a question thoroughly answered in the book they just "read".
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Nguyen
    I find cold calling fun, its my training to see how good I can get and make things happen, just through my voice.

    Fastest route between two points is a straight line which is my phone. Takes skill to be effective which can all be learnt. PM if you want to know more, nothing to sell, just giving back.
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    • Profile picture of the author kirbymarketingconcierge
      "This is my phone. There are many like it, but this one is mine"

      this is my reply, there aren't many like it, it's mine, But luckily other voices on this sub-forum are better than my own.

      thanks to Michael, and others who clearly provide terrific responses.

      I focus on a few good conversations a day.

      cold calls 2 warm prospects with a solid business conversation between 2 business people

      500 calls and nothing? the problem is us and whats in our heads. IMO

      I'm a Businessman(women) communicating to a contemporary.
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      • Profile picture of the author Ron Lafuddy
        Originally Posted by kirbymarketingconcierge View Post

        I'm a Businessman(women) communicating to a contemporary.
        At some point, you're gonna have to decide, ya know.

        It was Claude who started this whole transgender thing on the forums.
        Probably getting ready to introduce his new book on "Transgender Cold Calling".

        I'm sure he'll give us all a "sneak peek".

        Ron
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        • Profile picture of the author kirbymarketingconcierge
          appreciate your sense of humor, and where you live if I remember right (oregon).

          best state in the uniion!


          didn't want to offend all the awesome business women here.

          I am a man.
          And, some of my best bosses have been women, with
          some of the best sales,marketing, business people on the phone, I have witnessed have been women.

          good listening skills are crucial on the phone. actually "hearing" what is not said : meaning and motivation

          give credit where credit is due.

          been off this WF for awhile. good to know the VIP members are still around.

          Claude is neither man or women : an offline and online marketing God maybe!
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          • Profile picture of the author Ron Lafuddy
            Originally Posted by kirbymarketingconcierge View Post


            Claude is neither man or women...
            I understand your confusion.

            I've wondered the same thing myself.

            Someday...with time...and the rapid advancement of science
            in the study of alien life forms...we may yet, have an answer.

            Your interplanetary node,

            Ron
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  • Profile picture of the author amrannkh
    Let's take a closer look at the sales practice of cold calling, or prospecting. Over the last couple of years, several books have claimed that cold calling is a waste of a salesperson's time and effort. Before any conclusions are drawn, it's important to assign an empirical value to determine whether or not cold calling is effective.
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  • Profile picture of the author nhidongthoitai12
    Banned
    [DELETED]
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    • Profile picture of the author kirbymarketingconcierge
      I'm in love with my phone!

      how could I not.

      pre - internet:

      calling complete strangers,anywhere, and in 1-3 weeks have them send me money, while I'm sitting on my butt, in a nice warm office/home, with good coffee and great food...

      with Internet :

      sitting on my butt doing all of above, AND
      doing email, video, webinars, etc..And
      the addition of watching sports online, interfacing with the whole world in real time, reading about any topic of interest, engaging in blogs, forums, and thinktanks.

      cold calling effects me alot!

      did I mention I don't sell Crap, so I get the added Value of helping other business people.

      Change your marketing venue if you can or Change your mind on what the phone Is, Does, and it's good Effects.

      Source of Inspiration : Victor Frankl - If you Can't change your surroundings, then you must change how you see it.

      1 of the greatest "salespeople" to have ever lived - under Nazi occupation

      I bought.
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  • Profile picture of the author nsserve
    Cold calls receive cold response and this is something you don't want.
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  • Profile picture of the author kleanerdude
    I LOVE cold calling. It DOES work and I WILL continue to be doing it for quite some time. I cold call businesses to get leads for carpet cleaning. It's not easy but it's not hard, either. I like talking to people in general, so that makes it the easy part.

    I cold call restaurants a lot and I have learned that it is very easy to reach the Manager or General Manager. Waiters and waitresses are NOT your typical gatekeepers, so that
    is good.

    I would like to hear from other TMers about what small or medium-sized businesses might be best to call that you find it relatively easy to reach the Manager, GM or the owner. The decision-maker is the owner, of course - but circumventing workers and receptionists is a KEY.

    I am really glad to have found this thread. It seems to contain a little bit of everything
    and I can tell right off that if you want to talk about TMing, this is the place. By saying everything, of course, I am talking about both those FOR and AGAINST seeing TM as a great idea.

    Me, like I said, I LOVE TMing. It works for me. It does NOT work for everyone. It does take a person who has the right 'phone voice' and is assertive but not too much so, can handle rejection, the word NO, and has the ability to just hang up and go on to the next call when things seem to be a little down. You cannot get down in TMing, so you have
    to stay UP and just go on. You just have to keep 'dialing for dollars', as they say.

    Anyway, I am going to see what I can learn and share in here and thank you to everyone here for sharing your experiences.
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  • Profile picture of the author techppc
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  • Profile picture of the author Maxima123
    Yes, cold emailing, calling, or anything cold (for that matter), gives you a chance to find a couple prospects that may end up needing you.

    Is it the most effective way of generating credible leads? Probably not.

    With information becoming more accessible to compare and contrast different realtors, you'll probably find less success cold calling than you would ten years ago (people are educated and more apt to sticking with what they know instead of being told).

    However, that first cold call should accomplish setting up an appointment to further explore the prospect's needs and how your service can be a fit.

    Are you able to charm them and give them enough reason to meet with you in the future from that initial phone call? If so, sounds effective to me.
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    Black Car Service and airport car service.
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  • Profile picture of the author animal44
    Hey Ron,

    you do realise that every time you sell something a contract is formed... Better have your attorney follow you around all day. Just in case... After all, "Judges don't take kindly to those who draft their own contracts, without a legal advisor"...

    For all the others who are a little more sensible, in 40 years of doing deals, I've never not been paid and I've never had to enforce one of my deals in a court.

    And Judges have to comply with the law and in accordance with guidance regularly issued based on appeal court and supreme court judgments. They don't have latitude to decide based on their own biases and prejudices.
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    • Profile picture of the author Ron Lafuddy
      Originally Posted by animal44 View Post

      Hey Ron,

      you do realise that every time you sell something a contract is formed... Better have your attorney follow you around all day. Just in case... After all, "Judges don't take kindly to those who draft their own contracts, without a legal advisor"...

      For all the others who are a little more sensible, in 40 years of doing deals, I've never not been paid and I've never had to enforce one of my deals in a court.

      And Judges have to comply with the law and in accordance with guidance regularly issued based on appeal court and supreme court judgments. They don't have latitude to decide based on their own biases and prejudices.
      I can tell you haven't been around much.

      For a while, I refused to believe that you were as ignorant as you appeared to be, in so many posts.

      However, you have proved me wrong.

      From the "great" Jay Abraham himself: 21 Power Principles to Maximize Your Business Success

      Principle Number Nine;

      Rule Number Seven: "Don't start the deal until a "contract of agreement" is fully discussed and signed.
      Don't start to reveal too much. Don't make your assets available. Don't make your operation open to the
      other party until you have an irrevocable, binding, and fully stated agreement. Take my word for it, you
      will regret it if you don't."

      You are fond of quoting Jay, but I've never seen this particular quote from you.

      I wonder why?

      Ron

      P.S. In the U.S. right now, we have a big problem with federal judges "interpreting" the law, rather than
      following it. And, these are "Landmark" court decisions. If you don't think it happens in the lower courts,
      spend some time in the local law library.

      I have been in court on more than one occasion, and had the judge specifically ask, "who drafted this agreement?"

      If it doesn't matter, why would he ask?
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      • Profile picture of the author animal44
        Originally Posted by Ron Lafuddy View Post

        Rule Number Seven: "Don't start the deal until a "contract of agreement" is fully discussed and signed.
        Don't start to reveal too much. Don't make your assets available. Don't make your operation open to the
        other party until you have an irrevocable, binding, and fully stated agreement. Take my word for it, you
        will regret it if you don't."
        If you took Jay's legal agreements, from his book, and planted them in front of the average small business owner, they'd run away faster than a fast thing.
        I use simple, plain english, agreements, easy for the business owner to understand and nowhere near as scary. A solicitor did review them and, of course, wanted to change them, but when pressed she agreed they were just fine as they were.
        However, my first line of defense against this situation is always picking who I do business with. If you're dealing with a dodgy dealer, then no agreement will save you...
        Second line of defense is to start small, so exposure is low.
        As I said in 40 years, I've never been cheated...
        Originally Posted by Ron Lafuddy View Post

        I have been in court on more than one occasion, and had the judge specifically ask, "who drafted this agreement?"

        If it doesn't matter, why would he ask?
        At a guess, he wants to know if a solicitor drew it up. If so, he will interpret it as you knowing exactly what each term legally means. If not, then he will give a bit of latitude as you are a layperson and cannot be expected to know the strict legal interpretation.
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        • Profile picture of the author socialentry
          Originally Posted by animal44 View Post

          However, my first line of defense against this situation is always picking who I do business with. If you're dealing with a dodgy dealer, then no agreement will save you...
          How do you do your due diligence?
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          • Profile picture of the author animal44
            Originally Posted by socialentry View Post

            How do you do your due diligence?
            To be honest, you don't really need much. I did one off deals with total strangers for years and never got burned. As I was asking others who I wanted to talk to, people don't recommend dodgy dealers usually, so due diligence was built in to the way I got the clients.

            When I went full time about four or five years ago, I was already referral only and people tend to refer people like themselves, so by default they're all honest. Then it's really just gut instinct.

            Bear in mind, business people pay suppliers, pay employees, pay sales commission all the time. If they were in the habit of cheating, they'd be out of business in no time. There is always risk of course, but that's part of business. You just mitigate as best you can.

            And with this business, you're really only out a couple of hours of your time on any one deal. I get paid a minimum of 5k up front, so if a deal goes bad, then I haven't really lost anything. And all the ones that go well, I make huge profits from relatively little effort.

            And when you pitch, you make the point that this isn't a one off - you have more tried and tested campaigns. The poorest response we've had from a campaign made the business owner close to 36k* for no effort on their part. With the promise of 12 more similar campaigns over the next year, do you really think they're going to try and cheat you?

            Just get out there and do some deals. Start with people you know, people you're already doing business with. You're already a customer, so you'll have a good idea if they're honest or not. The ideal client is the one who goes the extra mile. You'll get a better response from their customers and therefore make more money. However, you can also help the average business owner increase their profits simply by getting them to do the little extras that make people go wow. Being an existing customer is an advantage - you see ways they could improve.

            My number one protege got a big client right off simply by emailing people she knew. Another spent a lot of time in a local car dealer drooling over his dream car which he knew he couldn't afford. He was known there. When I started training him, he went to the dealer and made notes, then composed a letter to the dealer principal with suggestions of what he could do for them. He got a meeting and did a deal. He hasn't finished his year, however he's already made his million and got his dream car. (A Porsche Boxster - what a girl Now he's got a new dream car, one with more hair on it's chest ) He specialises in car dealers and has 4 clients now, all prestige/supercar dealers.

            * How many inexperienced cold callers could make 36k in sales with a couple of hours work?
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            • Profile picture of the author Ron Lafuddy
              Originally Posted by animal44 View Post

              * How many inexperienced cold callers could make 36k in sales with a couple of hours work?
              All of them.

              Because...it's easy for an inexperienced cold caller to get on the phone and talk to someone who is already interested in what they are selling.

              So, I can put an inexperienced or newbie guy on the phone and he can nail a sale for a $40,000 phone system.

              Why?

              He's calling the right company at the right time. They want to buy.

              So, the newbie cold caller picks up a commission check for $6,000. If he keeps calling, he'll get another sale, because again, he's calling the right folks, at the right time.

              If the newbie cold caller keeps calling, and makes just one $40,000 sale per week he pulls in $24,000 for the month.

              Some sales will be smaller, some larger, so commissions will vary.

              But, if he keeps calling, I can guarantee a newbie cold caller can go from $0 to $200,000 + per year.

              And, for someone who is broke or struggling, that is indeed, "a large income".

              Ron
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              • Profile picture of the author animal44
                Originally Posted by Ron Lafuddy View Post

                All of them.


                I guess I walked right into that...

                How about 144 sales with less than 2 hours work...?

                Using your commission figure, that'd be 864,000... like for like...

                Originally Posted by Ron Lafuddy View Post

                If the newbie cold caller keeps calling, and makes just one $40,000 sale per week he pulls in $24,000 for the month.
                As per my example, my beginner protege made 100k in her first month. While holding down her full time job...

                Our biggest number of sales from one deal - a couple of hours work - was close to 40,000 sales...

                And my point wasn't about cold calling "not working", it was disputing your statement:
                Nothing will take you from zero to a large income faster than making the calls.
                Clearly, there are alternatives that will take people, especially beginners, to a large income faster and with less effort...

                Edit: If this is a targeted list, how is the list formed? The only way would be if the prospect had put their hand up in some way. In which case we're not talking cold calling...
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                • Profile picture of the author Ron Lafuddy
                  Originally Posted by Oziboomer View Post

                  This one of the services my debt collector offers as part of their retainer.

                  It is a big mistake going into any service delivery without a contract of agreement.

                  Pay particular attention to "director's guarantees" and to the fact there is an agreement to pay for any debt recovery.

                  That can save you thousands and also give you ammunition in court if it comes to that.

                  Oz may have different regulations over "cooling off" periods on the phone or when sold via cold calling than in other countries.

                  Signed or authorised guarantees are important and it is only after you have been burnt do you understand the pain of failing to put the right things in place BEFORE supplying a product or service.

                  Best regards,

                  Ozi
                  Yeah, the whole joint venture charade, as pitched in this thread, is a joke.

                  First we "start small, so exposure is low."

                  Then somehow during that same time period, "100k in 30 days".

                  Now that there is some real "forum magic" ain't it??

                  Pretty soon business owners are just "throwing money at us" and we are rolling in millions.


                  Seems over the years we've had plenty of members who've posted about their success cold calling
                  but, I can't recall even one newbie talking about their success with joint ventures.

                  Not one.

                  How bizarre.

                  Anyway Ozi, good real world input. No "magic fairy dust", just a good swift kick in the teeth if
                  you try to shortcut the process by not dotting the i's or crossing the t's.

                  Jay Abraham's guide: "21 Power Principles To Maximize Your Business Success"

                  Should be available online. I am not affiliated in any way. It's a good beginners handbook for navigating the joint venture jungle.

                  Good luck!

                  Ron

                  Originally Posted by animal44 View Post

                  If this is a targeted list, how is the list formed? The only way would be if the prospect had put their hand up in some way. In which case we're not talking cold calling...
                  Everything has a "useful life". (yours is on borrowed time.)
                  Once we know the "When" , a simple cold call is all that's necessary to get the sale.
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                  • Profile picture of the author animal44
                    Originally Posted by Ron Lafuddy View Post

                    How bizarre.
                    Even more bizarre, wonder where the roughly eight million came from...?

                    [Edit]Removed copy of bank statement[/edit]



                    Originally Posted by Ron Lafuddy View Post

                    Everything has a "useful life". (yours is on borrowed time.)
                    Once we know the "When" , a simple cold call is all that's necessary to get the sale.
                    Ah, so. you just call, and people throw money at you...
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            • Profile picture of the author socialentry
              Originally Posted by animal44 View Post

              And when you pitch, you make the point that this isn't a one off - you have more tried and tested campaigns. The poorest response we've had from a campaign made the business owner close to 36k* for no effort on their part. With the promise of 12 more similar campaigns over the next year, do you really think they're going to try and cheat you?

              Just get out there and do some deals.
              OK so in a nutshell...

              You buy a swipe files, copy/paste and plug in the client's info, get paid, do the mailing and make (insert SMB owner here) 36 k + ? All in a couple of hour's work?

              ...and.... that's about it? Swipe file is that powerful?
              There's nothing more to it then this?

              I have to ask about the caveats.I don't know anything about copywriting.

              I mean can't these kind of campaigns outright fail?
              Can one (without any experience) really make claims on the basis of "Well, the seller of the swipe file claims that in 20XX it made him XXX K$. The prospect's business is very similar. It should work for him also"?

              Is that it or is there something I'm missing?
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      • Profile picture of the author Oziboomer
        Originally Posted by Ron Lafuddy View Post

        Rule Number Seven: "Don't start the deal until a "contract of agreement" is fully discussed and signed.
        Don't start to reveal too much. Don't make your assets available. Don't make your operation open to the
        other party until you have an irrevocable, binding, and fully stated agreement. Take my word for it, you
        will regret it if you don't."
        This one of the services my debt collector offers as part of their retainer.

        It is a big mistake going into any service delivery without a contract of agreement.

        Pay particular attention to "director's guarantees" and to the fact there is an agreement to pay for any debt recovery.

        That can save you thousands and also give you ammunition in court if it comes to that.

        Oz may have different regulations over "cooling off" periods on the phone or when sold via cold calling than in other countries.

        Signed or authorised guarantees are important and it is only after you have been burnt do you understand the pain of failing to put the right things in place BEFORE supplying a product or service.

        Best regards,

        Ozi
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      • Profile picture of the author AlphaWarrior
        Originally Posted by Ron Lafuddy View Post

        I can tell you haven't been around much.

        For a while, I refused to believe that you were as ignorant as you appeared to be, in so many posts.

        However, you have proved me wrong.

        From the "great" Jay Abraham himself: 21 Power Principles to Maximize Your Business Success

        Principle Number Nine;

        Rule Number Seven: "Don't start the deal until a "contract of agreement" is fully discussed and signed.
        Don't start to reveal too much. Don't make your assets available. Don't make your operation open to the
        other party until you have an irrevocable, binding, and fully stated agreement. Take my word for it, you
        will regret it if you don't."

        You are fond of quoting Jay, but I've never seen this particular quote from you.

        I wonder why?

        Ron

        P.S. In the U.S. right now, we have a big problem with federal judges "interpreting" the law, rather than
        following it. And, these are "Landmark" court decisions. If you don't think it happens in the lower courts,
        spend some time in the local law library.

        I have been in court on more than one occasion, and had the judge specifically ask, "who drafted this agreement?"

        If it doesn't matter, why would he ask?
        I have been around the block a number of times, and even though this thread is about cold calling, I could not resist to add my 2 cents.

        While it is good to have a written contract/agreement, the truth is that if you are dealing with an honorable person, a written contract/agreement doesn't make a difference and if you are dealing with a non-honorable or dishonest person, a written contract/agreement doesn't make a difference.

        Good people are fair and honest in their dealings - whether written or not. No so good people will find a way to cheat you - whether there is a written agreement or not,
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  • Profile picture of the author J50
    Depends on what type of cold calling you're doing, if you ring garbage data you found for free, then I am sure its effectiveness is hit and miss. If however, you're ringing month old qualified legacy data, then your results are going to be a lot different. Cold calling effectiveness is a lot like the response rate from bulk SMS/Email campaigns, most of your success is down to quality data. Anybody can go and find garbage data to ring, email, post to or text.
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  • Profile picture of the author Greg Green
    Cold Calling is still very effective, but you have to choose a strategy that suits you. Cold calling will give you a quick answer of yes or no. Usually, the goal of the cold call is just to generate interest and get their email or to schedule an actual time to sit down and talk. It's mindset over everything, you shouldn't try and push for a sale on the first call but you should at least try to get some information and set up a strategy call to learn their pain points so that you can develop an offer that suits them. Hope that helps.
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    [STOP COLD CALLING AND COLD EMAILING] LET ME DO THE HARD WORK OF GETTING YOU LEADS
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  • Profile picture of the author brooking1
    Where can I start! whatever you want to call it Cold,Luke Warm, Smart, Tepid it WORKS ! God Yes ! With 25 years exp,i know ! these so -called gurus will tell you it wont to sell you the Program,( take the path of least resistance) yes thats right Sales 2.0 mob use Social Media sit in front of your computer in your pyjamas, and a myriad of gagging prospects will appear and want to become clients BS ! Yes you need a arsenal of prospecting tools, ( including Social Media ) however the phone because it generates fear and rejection with many average sales people , is and WILL be the MOST potent weapon for prospecting for new business.
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  • Profile picture of the author Beehelp
    If I get a cold call first what I say is "no, thanks" And that's all. It's very annoying!
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  • Profile picture of the author mikeandy01
    cold calling can be effictive if you think outside the box with your approach otherwise it can quickly just demoralize you which happens with many and they simply give-up, you should look into outsourcing your cold calling and pay bonuses to workers who deliver results(results interms of client follow-ups, signing up, etc).
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  • Profile picture of the author flopitdown
    Yes, it is, if the people making the calls are experienced and good at what they do. Without that cold-calls are a waste of time.
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