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Guess who is doing really well these days?

by GordonJ
52 replies
Last week, I reached out to many people I know from their Remote Direct Marketing businesses, and in particular, those who are still sending out USPS Mail Or any country's mail...the whole envelope with stamp, postcard or package thing.

And guess what?

Almost all of them are doing BIG business.

Several years ago, here at WF, maybe a decade ago???...the 9x12 EDDM postcard was hot.

Over the years, it may have cooled, once folks found out it wasn't as easy as it was made out to be...but, those who stuck with it, or refined it or modified it...

Well, today, thousands of postcards are being mailed.

And many letters, packages etc.

And of course Amazon delivers untold gazillions of packages an hour too.

I found out last week, that there were many a one person show, doing variations of the giant postcard thing, and are selling out ads in a matter of hours. HOURS. Not days, not weeks, not months, but getting their thousand dollar profits in a matter of hours.

So, just a reminder to all would be ONLINE and IM wannabees, don't forget the good old mail box, and there are programs in the REAL/OFFLINE world which cost nothing to start and could produce fast, and easy (a relative term) profits for minimum efforts.

GordonJ
#days #guess
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  • Profile picture of the author StevenTylerPjs
    Thanks for the update Gordon.
    I've always liked the idea of doing a postcard but never actually got around to doing it...

    Themes seemed like the obvious choice to me - Mothers Day, Fathers Day, BACK TO SCHOOL (approaching before you know it)

    I'm doing some fundraising for a charity right now. I still use USPS mail and face-to-face cold calling.
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    • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
      Originally Posted by StevenTylerPjs View Post

      Thanks for the update Gordon.
      I've always liked the idea of doing a postcard but never actually got around to doing it...

      Themes seemed like the obvious choice to me - Mothers Day, Fathers Day, BACK TO SCHOOL (approaching before you know it)

      I'm doing some fundraising for a charity right now. I still use USPS mail and face-to-face cold calling.
      Thanks StevenTylerPjs,

      I don't have permission to share what I was told, however, I did uncover a very common element among the most successful, which I can and will share with you, in a moment...

      First, one reason why I think the EDDM and overall postcard thing picked up is due to the COVID shock, that sent many a small business running for their livelyhoods.

      No secret, many went out of business, but those survivors, want to get back to business and are open to ways of getting people back into their stores.

      Today, they all (small biz) get pounded about online, IM, youtube, etc., SEO, etc. Yelp, etc., etc. all online stuff.

      So, the old world way of BILLBOARD IN THE MAILBOX, finds new interest.

      OK. The common thing the successful people have is...

      And this isn't anything new, in fact it is pretty OLD...

      The common thing is...they first FIND a HOST, and let the host help fill up the card.

      And today, you don't need 18 on a card.
      You don't need 16
      or 10
      or 8.

      3 to six on a card, and six is the sweet spot, with the host being 7, and some forms of them get done in just a couple of hours.

      The charity would be a great host, and you might find 6 advertisers easily within their mailing lists or whatever.

      Good luck on your venture, and you are right to think about holidays and events, but one piece of advice, some of the most successful, do smaller mailings, 2500-5000 at a lower cost to advertiser, more often, and don't have to wait for biz owners/managers to get back to them. Make the price a no brainer compared to what other coverage they could get for that price.

      Host. Lower costs. Lower number of cards, more mailings.

      GordonJ
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      • Profile picture of the author StevenTylerPjs
        Thanks again Gordon. I just wrote a long response that somehow didn't post...

        Anyway, the main premise was something I've seen you talk about for years... and that's waking in to talk to people face-to-face! That's what I've been doing with this charity thing. I've done it with other niches as well.

        It easier than cold calls over the phone (certain aspects anyway). On the phone, people aren't afraid to be jerks. In person, they're much friendlier. And I like to think people can appreciate a person hitting the streets putting themself out there to make sales.. but if people can get over the fear of just walking in to places, it would open a lot of doors for them.

        Anyway, if I do this postcard thing I will post results and my experience. But it will absolutely be face to face cold calls, walking in to businesses. Thanks for the tip on being "the host", as well as keeping the mailer smaller and more local.

        This reminds me, I want to update an old thread on solar sales.
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        • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
          Originally Posted by StevenTylerPjs View Post

          Thanks again Gordon. I just wrote a long response that somehow didn't post...

          Anyway, the main premise was something I've seen you talk about for years... and that's waking in to talk to people face-to-face! That's what I've been doing with this charity thing. I've done it with other niches as well.

          It easier than cold calls over the phone (certain aspects anyway). On the phone, people aren't afraid to be jerks. In person, they're much friendlier. And I like to think people can appreciate a person hitting the streets putting themself out there to make sales.. but if people can get over the fear of just walking in to places, it would open a lot of doors for them.

          Anyway, if I do this postcard thing I will post results and my experience. But it will absolutely be face to face cold calls, walking in to businesses. Thanks for the tip on being "the host", as well as keeping the mailer smaller and more local.

          This reminds me, I want to update an old thread on solar sales.
          Well, I think finding a good host is much easier to do face to face, in fact, everything is easier face to face. Isn't it?

          Of the many scores, maybe even hundreds of people who dove into 9x12 or coop postcards, I found very few are still doing it today, some may dabble and every now and then do one.

          The magic elixir, which a couple of people have tried to sell, is the REMOTE version which would allow you to offer it anywhere in the country, from the comfort of your home.

          There were some really BAD, simply awful sloppy and messy ideas that came from these experts. There is a review circa, 2014 in the archives about a lot of this.

          Now, that being said, I know of two people who have achieved success remotely, selling cards in different parts of the country, with just email and phone. There may be more, I just don't know them.

          The ones I do know, their secret sauce, is putting time and effort in finding a good host, so as not to spend a lot of time, and then get the host to complete the card at breakneck speed, say one afternoon and the next morning.

          But, both of these guys have been doing these and other coop advertising vehicles for years and years, so they have an edge.

          With local, you want two zip codes and know how many routes are in each one, and what the business district is and where the cards are going to go, then you custom tailor the EDDM route map, and show the host exactly where the cards are going, and by rolling out only 2500, it can be a test, with quarterly rollouts to the same zip codes with different hosts and advertisers, or just go next zip over, and find the biz that serves both areas.

          What works best face to face, is a sample (easily gotten from one of the many printers, some even sell a whole bunch for a few bux), a map, a list of potential advertisers and an ATTITUDE, you are there helping everyone, not selling anyone.

          Hope this helps a little.

          If anyone perfects their REMOTE methods, I highly advise, they keep them a secret and USE them...we have too many secret method products in this area which do not work as is.

          Also, templates, don't give the host or advertisers much to do, pick one, and set a date for approval, which if it isn't met, you get someone else, don't leave it open ended, a big mistake in the early days of EDDM coop cards.

          GordonJ
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          • Profile picture of the author StevenTylerPjs
            Just brainstorming, I'm wondering what the main objections would be. Burger King might say, "That's a corporate thing", or "We already have our advertising needs met."

            I'm not sure if management at corporate chains have power to authorize something like this. Privately owned businesses would obviously be easier targets...

            "We already advertise" - they know advertising works, this would be an additional bonus. Show the value they're getting for what they're paying and how many extra eyeballs they'll be getting to see their offer

            "We tried that and it didn't work" - their offer must not have been compelling enough. Better advertising is needed - a different offer or angle.

            "Our advertising budget is already maxed" - again it would be value. Depending on the business, rapport, etc I might try to explain that advertising budgets don't need to be static. They should be fluid and tested and tracked to maximize their returns.

            Good tip on having a set date for approval. I might even make it a one-call only. They have to sign there on the spot with payment - check, cash, venmo, etc. I tell them today is the only day I'm offering because I'm getting this thing sent out in the next 2 weeks... I'd hate for them to miss out. Creating the urgency may help some prospects ignore any of the above mentioned objections.

            And like you said Gordon, you're their to HELP them, not sell them anything...

            Do you suggest taking a mock-up with other advertisers already on there, or just a blank card with the general layout?
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            • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
              Originally Posted by StevenTylerPjs View Post

              Just brainstorming, I'm wondering what the main objections would be. Burger King might say, "That's a corporate thing", or "We already have our advertising needs met."

              I'm not sure if management at corporate chains have power to authorize something like this. Privately owned businesses would obviously be easier targets...

              "We already advertise" - they know advertising works, this would be an additional bonus. Show the value they're getting for what they're paying and how many extra eyeballs they'll be getting to see their offer

              "We tried that and it didn't work" - their offer must not have been compelling enough. Better advertising is needed - a different offer or angle.

              "Our advertising budget is already maxed" - again it would be value. Depending on the business, rapport, etc I might try to explain that advertising budgets don't need to be static. They should be fluid and tested and tracked to maximize their returns.

              Good tip on having a set date for approval. I might even make it a one-call only. They have to sign there on the spot with payment - check, cash, venmo, etc. I tell them today is the only day I'm offering because I'm getting this thing sent out in the next 2 weeks... I'd hate for them to miss out. Creating the urgency may help some prospects ignore any of the above mentioned objections.

              And like you said Gordon, you're their to HELP them, not sell them anything...

              Do you suggest taking a mock-up with other advertisers already on there, or just a blank card with the general layout?
              Don't waste time with any franchise or corporate store. You are right, they don't have authority, stick with decision makers only.

              Now all of what you talk about, has been tried, tested, and for the most part proven very ineffective over the last decade, especially with EDDM CoOp marketing. None of those objections are made, although, they ALL are heard by cold call advertising sales people, they always look for a FAST NO, GET OUT OF HERE.

              It is basic biz behavior. The way is to not have any objections, again, that is done by NOT selling.

              So, of the dozens of people I spoke to, including several warriors here 7 or 8 years ago, very few were salesman, and couldn't overcome those and other objections.

              It is all about the presentation. Spend time screening a host, after all she is getting advertising for FREE, so the least they would do is refer and give others a chance to participate. .

              Back in the day, even a decade ago, 9x12 gurus tossed around numbers, and some of those claims were outrageous, I lost interest when a guru talked to a pizza shop owner across the country and told him a 5% would not be unusual...I never bought anything from that guy, ever. Nor would I.

              Outrageous claims are only made by scammers, in my opinion.

              You don't have to even talk about numbers focus on distribution, TARGETED to local areas, where their customers are already coming from.

              I remember some guys doing 10k as an average, with some sending 25k or more out.

              10k, is nearly impossible for one person to do alone, that is why the gurus have back ends, fulfillment offers, and printing to do that for you.

              But 10k is too many, even 5k may be too many. Better to drip that over two or more mailings.

              I want to emphasize this, and speaking as a salesman, BEING ONE with this, is the kiss of death.

              So, even thinking about objections kicks your mind into that mode.

              Find a host, give her the chance to do a solid for 6 or her friends, and everyone will thank you and become valuable customers.

              NO francises, NO corporations, don't try to sell ads. GIVE the host spot away, get her to refer, on a first chance opportunity.

              I once sold an ad on a menu board, and the restaurant owner got complaints from his plumber, for not giving him the chance to be on the board, so got steamed every time he ate and saw his competitor on his friend's board. It is all about how you explain it to the host.

              If they don't give their own lists a chance, will there be resentment when they see a competitor on the billboard that lands in their mailbox????

              GordonJ
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              • Profile picture of the author StevenTylerPjs
                Great stuff Gordon!! And I love the angry plumber story! It all makes sense...
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  • Profile picture of the author StevenTylerPjs
    Thanks again Gordon. Great suggestion with using a "host".

    And I've had such success with this charity thing the last couple of months. And it's because of something you've talked about forever (I read and search through a lot of posts here) - walking in and talking to people face-to-face.

    If people can just get over the fear of that, it would open up so many avenues. It's much much easier to be a "jerk" to a faceless voice over the phone. Or to just ignore an email and never respond with an answer.

    But people don't talk or act like that in person. They're nice. Even when it's a "no", they're nice about it. They even apologize lol. This isn't just because it's charity work. I've done a few other things as well over the last couple of years. The interactions are the same.

    People just aren't as aggressive in-person, for all of the obvious reasons anybody could think of. (ie "the keyboard warrior"). Most people just don't want to be a jerk and break rapport. And I'm sure some can appreciate a person just out and about doing a job and trying to get some sales.
    But generally speaking, people are pretty friendly.

    The easiest thing to get rid of? A phone call or email.

    The hardest thing to get rid of? A body.

    Where have I heard this before?
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  • Profile picture of the author savidge4
    speaking of Host... maybe a revisit to: ( https://www.warriorforum.com/offline...ost-cards.html )
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  • Profile picture of the author CharlesHeflin
    I got started using direct mail 25 years ago. I quit doing it once this thing called the Internet came out. What's old is new again... solid!
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  • Profile picture of the author Steve The Copywriter
    Coughs, splutters and nearly split my coffee...

    It's always a golden moment for me - when the wonderful world of Postcards are discussed, cheered and hailed with great praise - fabulous - thanks everyone!

    Parchment and Ink pinned to a tree - may have ecliped them slightly - but Postcards were one of the first ever advertising mediums.

    Fair to say they have very successfully and constantly stood the trials of time.


    (Inexpensive. Only need a small "test." You get the results fast. Great fun to write. Clients SO appreciate the extraordinary high revenues they can bring in. In the age of gazillions of digital ads and the endless interweb - they stand out EVEN more. And always have an outstanding chance of being read. You can't bin them without glancing at them - and that quick "look" so often creates a "Eureka" moment - and are kept and responded to)


    When done well - they've always been and still are a phenomenal form of advertising.


    It's difficult NOT to do them properly - as long they are oozing with empathy. Have an enticing message and an irresistible offer - and are fired off to your targeted people.


    Sometimes the results may need to kick up a gear or so - the answer - send a series.


    And when you see the ever increasing momentum of buyers - keep doing them!


    Don't be surprised - if you stop sending them frequently - many, many customers aching to buy - often again and again - will ask, "Where's the latest Postcard?"


    (They may have already bought - so diplomatically and with the best of reasons - prompt them to buy again. Always be building a "relationship" - bit like a "close knit" family - above all else - make sure your esteemed readers know you truly and genuinely CARE about them - they'll rarely feel this from other Ads)


    In the UK when we're on holiday - we often send Postcards to friends saying, "Wish you were here!."

    In an advertising Postcard - make it, "We would love you to be here and we'll make SURE you have the best time!"


    I could ramble on about how effective they are - as I have for decades...

    But as I usually do Solo cards - one thing I never considered was using a Host - when doing a group of Ads on one card.

    Brilliant idea.

    Sincere thanks to Gordon for mentioning it.


    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author alias2002
    Interesting! I would like to know more about it. Thank you!
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  • Profile picture of the author Steve The Copywriter
    Hi alias,

    Just type Postcards in the search box.

    And you should find stacks of stuff.


    Eons ago - I posted on the Copywriting Forum - a "Secret Formula" on PDF - all about Postcards.


    Trouble is I can't find it!

    I wandered through the acres of posts but to no avail.


    One reason I love Postcard Marketing - it's not all that technical - useful for me - but I don't think I've ever "lost" a Postcard - until now.


    Hopefully the info you do see - is interesting to you.


    Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
      Originally Posted by Steve The Copywriter View Post

      Hi alias,

      Just type Postcards in the search box.And you should find stacks of stuff.
      Eons ago - I posted on the Copywriting Forum - a "Secret Formula" on PDF - all about Postcards.
      Trouble is I can't find it!
      I wandered through the acres of posts but to no avail.
      One reason I love Postcard Marketing - it's not all that technical - useful for me - but I don't think I've ever "lost" a Postcard - until now.
      Hopefully the info you do see - is interesting to you.
      Steve
      Steve The Copywriter,

      I think that was a link, which has since been removed, either by time, changing of moderation guards, or software...but it was in 2013, maybe Aug. or so, and the pdf was hosted somewhere off site?

      If you have it, and are willing to share it again, I think you might find some fresh folk in the Parade of Life who would be grateful.

      Thanks for sharing, your experience and professionalism is appreciated.

      GordonJ
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      • Profile picture of the author Steve The Copywriter
        Hi Gordon,

        Yes I think it was in 2013.

        My complete lack of technical acumen wouldn't have enabled me to post it in cyberspace - so it could only have
        been in here.


        As you say - the link, page etc - must have long gone.

        I'll dig through my Postcard archives and see if I can unearth the original.


        But it was several computer hard drives and Olivetti typewriters ribbons ago - when I did it - so I'm not exactly hopeful.

        If I ever get the chance - I'll write it again.


        The plus side is because Postcard Marketing is evergreen - the "how to" content never needs updating a great deal.

        But as you know - there are always new angles - showing how astonishingly well Postcards can be used.


        Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author max5ty
    @steve the copywriter - I remember that report and I downloaded it. I will/have been going through my files to try and find it...could take some time...especially since I have been finding reports I had forgotten about and end up going down a rabbit hole for hours. I need better discipline.

    I also discovered tonight that Joe Sugarman had died in April. Don't know if anyone mentioned it and I didn't see it. He was one of my all-time favorite copywriters.

    I do hope I can find your report because I remember it was good and worth saving.

    Edit: I did find it. Sent you a PM with the file
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  • Profile picture of the author Steve The Copywriter
    Max,

    Thanks so much for finding it!

    I've sent you a PM.


    I did hear about Joe - and yes - what a brilliant copywriter he was.

    Highly - beyond heights - recommend his books - 30 Triggers - what a treasure chest of techniques.

    And of course The Copywriting Handbook.


    Steve


    P.S. For those who may not know about Joe, his copywriting and entrepreneurship.

    And for the rest of us - who would like to see some of the legacy he left us.

    Just type Joe Sugarman into YouTube.
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  • Profile picture of the author max5ty
    Hey Gordon -

    I was googling around to see if some of the websites that used to be around were still around with people advertising doing the postcards. Couldn't really find any still up...pretty sure there's still some doing it though.

    I think a good idea would be to do one with service providers...plumber, electrician etc. People could hang it on their fridge and have a list of who to call. I think I'd only have one of each business listed. 1 plumber, 1 electrician, 1 mechanic, 1 carpet cleaner, etc.

    By having just 1 slot for each it could cause some competition to get on the card. I don't know, just a thought.

    A couple days ago I was at a convenience store and was watching the people buying lottery tickets and thinking one of those tip sheets would probably work again. Don't know why they went out of style...but I'm thinking the time is right to start them again. Easy to make and could provide a decent little income for not a lot of work.

    I'm a big believer that some of the things that used to work and died out have a cycle where they come back again. Don't know...just me thinking again which I'm not sure is always a good thing...
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    • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
      I know some doing great with postcards, just don't want to share on WF. But, speaking of lottery and tips.

      I don't know if you remember the old mail order circulars, but, they are still around and growing. One, Shore to Shore has become the flagship. I'm thinking of bringing back my hotsheet I used to run. I'M BUYING.

      As you say, the cycle. I call it the Parade of Life, and newer band members come marching along.

      https://www.doubleredlucky.com/monthly-tips/

      These guys, or the forerunner owners, used to have little stands at the lottery counters in many stores. I guess it is mostly online now. After I win a biggie, I'll probably be launching my Personal Psychic Lottery Generator. Could be any day now, (and since I've been saying that for decades, it must be close).

      Gordon
      P.S. I know there is a nostalgia market, but I think it would be better to dust it off, polish it up, and present it as something newly updated. Soon, when more states, I think we're next year?? when sports gambling goes live...a lot of opportunity for those same kinds of little hotsheets, GRANDMA'S LOCKS. Cincy v Cleve. I go with Cincy from now until the cows come home to New Albany. HA!


      Originally Posted by max5ty View Post

      Hey Gordon -

      I was googling around to see if some of the websites that used to be around were still around with people advertising doing the postcards. Couldn't really find any still up...pretty sure there's still some doing it though.

      I think a good idea would be to do one with service providers...plumber, electrician etc. People could hang it on their fridge and have a list of who to call. I think I'd only have one of each business listed. 1 plumber, 1 electrician, 1 mechanic, 1 carpet cleaner, etc.

      By having just 1 slot for each it could cause some competition to get on the card. I don't know, just a thought.

      A couple days ago I was at a convenience store and was watching the people buying lottery tickets and thinking one of those tip sheets would probably work again. Don't know why they went out of style...but I'm thinking the time is right to start them again. Easy to make and could provide a decent little income for not a lot of work.

      I'm a big believer that some of the things that used to work and died out have a cycle where they come back again. Don't know...just me thinking again which I'm not sure is always a good thing...
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      • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
        Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post



        when sports gambling goes live...a lot of opportunity for those same kinds of little hotsheets, GRANDMA'S LOCKS. Cincy v Cleve. I go with Cincy from now until the cows come home to New Albany. HA!
        Not big on quoting myself, but let me justify it, by this: a huge opportunity coming your way.

        I have several NEW reports at the ready, none of which will be released until next year.

        One is, (tentative title) How to Drink for Free at Your Favorite Pub and get Paid to do it.

        I think there might be an audience for that report, anyhow, back in May of 2018 I started a thread about sports gambling, thinking then, that Ohio was decades away...but money talks, and a ton of politicians have done well...meaning...

        SPORTS BETTING, multi-billion dollar business is coming to Ohio the first of next year. Already, the Casinos and race tracks have their Class A licenses, and 40 B licenses, similar to NJ off track betting sites...and for only a 1000 bux, any bar in Ohio can have a kiosk, and that means there will be hundreds, if not thousands of places to place your bet.

        I am working on INFORMATION products, targeted to the millions of Ohioans who will be spending their lunch money, especially early on, on the sports books.

        Ohio lottery, of course, will be the biggest bookie of all. Or, the rich, will get richer.

        The REASON I am calling your attention to this, is...there is always talk here about trends and predicting demand for products...and as I have often said, just get on the track and let the train run you over.

        Sports Betting, an idea in 2018, a reality in a few months, and I'm ready for it. In fact, with the talk of the old lottery hotsheets, there could be a huge demand from the pubs/bars, which could offer their own branded hotsheet, which could be easily printed and sent out bimonthly. I will probably test that locally, but may still prefer online information.

        Also, I'm presenting several downtown bars, the opportunity to let the people know, they will have the kiosk, and can get the jump on competitors with a Dec. mailing EDDM.

        Anyhow, if anyone is looking to offline, there is a way to see the future, look to what your state legislature is doing, follow the money trail, and see the profits in your future, if you don't overcomplicate it.

        GordonJ
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  • Profile picture of the author Mobstra
    Interesting! I would like to know more about it. Thank you!
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  • Profile picture of the author SARubin
    Hey Gordon,

    I couldn't agree more about direct mail being alive and well.

    I've never done the 9 X 12 multi-ad like you're talking about, but a friend of mine (friend / client) owns a local construction company. And we recently got some pretty good results with a direct mail postcard.

    It's a small company doing mostly residential work (6 or 7 guys working for him in the summer, and usually 3 or 4 stay on for the winter interior season).

    Most of his work comes from repeat clients and referrals, and he already has online stuff going (GMB, local SEO, facebook, and craigslist) which brings in some business.

    Then a couple months ago I suggested he try targeting clients directly in their homes, instead of waiting for people to find him.

    "Hesitant" would be a polite way to describe his response. (a "Fahque - Mind your own business look" might describe it more accurately) And I couldn't blame him. After all, we've only known each other a short time.

    But I told him to try it, and if it didn't work I'd pay for it out of my own pocket. And because I'm a big fan of bartering, when it does work my only fee is he turns my back deck into a 3 season porch to make my wife happy.

    Hard to argue with that kind of offer, right?


    For my part, the key was targeting the right neighborhoods with the right offer.

    I spent a few hours driving up and down streets, looking at houses. There was a nice middle class neighborhood with a few roofs that could use some love, and some other exteriors that could use some painting.

    The copy practically wrote itself with the main selling point being "Protect the beauty and value of your home while being the envy of your neighbors".

    I based it partly on a postcard that Ewenmack shared with us a couple years ago, on this forum.

    Just last month he spent a little over $1500 (printing and postage) EDDM to a single zip code, and it landed over $120,000 worth of work, so far.

    Those numbers might not look big to some people here, but it's nothing to shake a stick at.

    Bottom line... He's getting work, my wife's getting a new porch, and everybody's happy.



    Another way I know direct mail is still alive and kicking...

    I still get a ton of pre-approved credit cards offers in the mail practically every other day. Along with insurance offers (property and life).

    And, much to my dismay, I've recently started seeing "death benefit" offers show up in the mail. (I know I'm getting old but Jeez, can they at least wait until my body's a little colder before they try to bury me?)
    But I digress...

    The point is, big companies wouldn't keep spending millions of dollars every month on direct mail if it didn't work.

    Anyway, I happy to see I'm not the only one here who still believes in tried and true marketing.

    Thanks for this thread man.
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    • Profile picture of the author savidge4
      Originally Posted by SARubin View Post

      Just last month he spent a little over $1500 (printing and postage) EDDM to a single zip code, and it landed over $120,000 worth of work, so far.

      Those numbers might not look big to some people here, but it's nothing to shake a stick at.
      "so far" those 2 words - dont make you an optimist... it makes you a realist - KNOWING how the world actually works.

      That $120,000 is a blast to his already performing system of referrals that has kept him and 7 guys busy probably for years. That $120,000 is $240,000 next year and $1,000,000 the year after and so on. The 3 season room was a miniscule price to pay... he knows that now

      And for you... the hesitant $1500 customer is $3000 is $6000 and the value of the case study is priceless.

      EDDM is the sleeping giant of the modern advertising world. When the full circle of conversions needed to make an EDDM piece work, fires on all cylinders its just magical. The circle of conversions meaning the message, the target, and the ability of the advertiser to close the deal - such good stuff... just talking about it gives me goose bumps.
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      • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
        So good, it needs to be read again:

        EDDM is the sleeping giant of the modern advertising world. When the full circle of conversions needed to make an EDDM piece work, fires on all cylinders its just magical.
        And for the irony mentioned in the title; everyday copywriters asking how to get started, how to find clients, how to get new customers.

        As you have said many times, LOCAL is a great place to start (and stay).

        All these would be copywriters, tens of thousands of them competing at fiverr, upwork, freelancer, etc. They want to sell their services to the world, while ignoring Ma and Pa, or more likely these days, the young Entrepreneur who started something new or update Mama and Papa's place.

        If any copywriter can't write copy that converts on EDDM postcards, probably can't sell anything and should stick with blogging.

        Big, huge, gigantic printers, in FL, NJ, CA, are running 3 shifts to keep up with the demand for postcards.

        And if you fire on all cylinders, it is as automatic a repeat business as Friday Night Pizza in millions of American households.

        Well, I know...most of the newer copywriters are looking for that 10,000 dollar gig, with a cut of the action, right?

        Whatever is, I guess, is.

        But I do know EDDM, both stand alone, and multiple promotions on a single card...IS.

        IS money in the bank.

        GordonJ



        Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

        "so far" those 2 words - dont make you an optimist... it makes you a realist - KNOWING how the world actually works.

        That $120,000 is a blast to his already performing system of referrals that has kept him and 7 guys busy probably for years. That $120,000 is $240,000 next year and $1,000,000 the year after and so on. The 3 season room was a miniscule price to pay... he knows that now

        And for you... the hesitant $1500 customer is $3000 is $6000 and the value of the case study is priceless.

        EDDM is the sleeping giant of the modern advertising world. When the full circle of conversions needed to make an EDDM piece work, fires on all cylinders its just magical. The circle of conversions meaning the message, the target, and the ability of the advertiser to close the deal - such good stuff... just talking about it gives me goose bumps.
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        • Profile picture of the author savidge4
          Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

          As you have said many times, LOCAL is a great place to start (and stay).
          I personally do not understand the need to complicate things. Working locally makes things sooooo much easier it isnt funny. At this point in my career, I understand the ins and outs and nuances of my local market both online and offline to the point of not even being funny.

          Its the whole I dont want to talk to people that starts the downhill slide to justifying targeting anywhere and everywhere. Its the internet... i dont have to talk to people... so lame, just so lame. I could name a few on this forum that have made it very clear they dont want to talk to people either... but in the end they are damn good at it... yourself included.

          Im obviously sand baggin this conversation a bit... I do single client cards, multi client cards, and am pretty heavy in host cards. To the point that it made sense to have the ability to print the cards Control and the ability to dictate speed across the entire process. Literally had a client come in Tuesday last week and had the cards delivered Saturday ( yesterday in context of time related to this discussion ) for an event on Monday. A NEW client I may add.

          Working locally does so many things... for you. The conversion circle... I can identify and work with ideal clients... forget the ability to pay upfront for the service.. its the ability to take advantage of the advertising and run with it... actually close deals. I can produce the best advertising piece ever created, but if the client wont, cant, just doesnt close deals the whole thing is for nothing.

          Its simply an absolute pleasure working with clients that answer online forms, and answer the phone and actually follow up on any and every avenue of contact. These clients are few and far between... but when you find ONE.. you know pretty quick that they are worth the effort to convert to a client of your business.
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          • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
            Because we both follow our bliss, we carefully pick and choose how we spend our time.

            YOU could easily add a dozen more biz' to your stable, if you wanted. Now, I know, this doesn't interest you too much, but...consider a few brief hours dictating, or better yet, conferring with or recording (with permission) your consults and turn them into information products, hire One more person to oversee it all.

            You have too much experience, knowledge and HOW TO, and many Warriors/others could benefit from it, as they do now with your WF posts.

            I envy your print biz background, and although I have some experience, as a dabbler, I have always loved 'PAPER AND INK' products. I published my first newsletter at 10, after getting a 'toy' printer for Christmas.

            It is fun for me to see the likes of a risen from the dead Dan Kennedy go back to a paper and ink product, a newsletter. And, to the OP, I started the thread because I know Postcards are a great opportunity, one which you have great depth of experience in.

            A couple more employees, and you'd be printing around the clock, not that I know you don't, or don't want too, just saying...the business is there.

            And a little time dictating, being interviewed, or recording consults...well, an Information Empire we all would be jealous of.

            I see a million dollar product just on postcard design, best offers, best times, etc., etc...and a complete course, once built, goes to auto (or better yet, an employee task to take care of).

            And you are right, too many are scared...and in several decades, so far, I've never had a gun pointed for walking into a store, even when the NO SALESMAN signs were out. What fragile snowflakes we have become, it is sad to think that a few convos with locals could be all the difference between abject failure and unqualified success, eh?

            GordonJ



            Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

            I personally do not understand the need to complicate things. Working locally makes things sooooo much easier it isnt funny. At this point in my career, I understand the ins and outs and nuances of my local market both online and offline to the point of not even being funny.
            (Its the whole I dont want to talk to people that starts the downhill slide to justifying targeting anywhere and everywhere. Its the internet... i dont have to talk to people... so lame, just so lame. I could name a few on this forum that have made it very clear they dont want to talk to people either... but in the end they are damn good at it... yourself included.

            Im obviously sand baggin this conversation a bit... I do single client cards, multi client cards, and am pretty heavy in host cards. To the point that it made sense to have the ability to print the cards Control and the ability to dictate speed across the entire process. Literally had a client come in Tuesday last week and had the cards delivered Saturday ( yesterday in context of time related to this discussion ) for an event on Monday. A NEW client I may add.

            Working locally does so many things... for you. The conversion circle... I can identify and work with ideal clients... forget the ability to pay upfront for the service.. its the ability to take advantage of the advertising and run with it... actually close deals. I can produce the best advertising piece ever created, but if the client wont, cant, just doesnt close deals the whole thing is for nothing.

            Its simply an absolute pleasure working with clients that answer online forms, and answer the phone and actually follow up on any and every avenue of contact. These clients are few and far between... but when you find ONE.. you know pretty quick that they are worth the effort to convert to a client of your business.
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      • Profile picture of the author SARubin
        Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

        "so far" those 2 words - dont make you an optimist... it makes you a realist - KNOWING how the world actually works.

        That $120,000 is a blast to his already performing system of referrals that has kept him and 7 guys busy probably for years. That $120,000 is $240,000 next year and $1,000,000 the year after and so on. The 3 season room was a miniscule price to pay... he knows that now
        Yes, absolutely.

        In all honesty I wasn't even thinking about that when I wrote those two words.
        I was still thinking short term.

        Like when stragglers trickle in after the first few weeks of the mailing, or when the neighbors see work being done on someone else's house, and suddenly want an estimate for work on their own house.

        But you're absolutely right. The long term residuals could add up to exponentially more than the short term.
        Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

        EDDM is the sleeping giant of the modern advertising world. When the full circle of conversions needed to make an EDDM piece work, fires on all cylinders its just magical. The circle of conversions meaning the message, the target, and the ability of the advertiser to close the deal - such good stuff... just talking about it gives me goose bumps.
        Agree. Even with the Internet being such an amazing avenue for advertising, I still believe many local businesses can greatly benefit from offline marketing.

        It just seems if the target market is people in their neighborhood, maybe they should try directly marketing to the people in their neighborhood.
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    • Profile picture of the author savidge4
      Originally Posted by SARubin View Post

      For my part, the key was targeting the right neighborhoods with the right offer.

      I spent a few hours driving up and down streets, looking at houses. There was a nice middle class neighborhood with a few roofs that could use some love, and some other exteriors that could use some painting.
      This is the POWER of local... A majority of my professional life is having the ability to read a map. knowing what neighbors hoods are owned homes vs rented, knowing the financial demographic of neighborhoods... knowing where within the 12 mile gap between the town I live in and the town next door where google says its either or... knowing where Cable stops and Satellite begins etc etc etc

      Targeting the right audience for a client is by enlarge the greatest hurdle. You want to attract customers for your clients that will either have the ability to pay or have the ability to buy such a service, within the area your client services.

      Sending HVAC offers to an area that is high density rental is foolish... sending offers for a local pizza place outside of their delivery area is foolish... sending roofer ads to newly developed neighborhoods is foolish. And the only way you are going to know this stuff... is driving around.

      My biggest day to day objection is "We have tried this or that and it didnt work" To which I respond "do you have the details of what was done?" and you see the very things I mention above - or they say "I was getting calls from outside of my area"

      All you have to do is get clients that get the type of response that SARubin's client got... you can then say look this last one cost you X $1500.. i can throw you on a card with X, Y and Z for $500 a month - for the next 6 months - they are saving money... and you just increased your profit margin.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
    Eons ago - I posted on the Copywriting Forum - a "Secret Formula" on PDF - all about Postcards.


    Trouble is I can't find it!

    Is this it?


    https://www.warriorforum.com/offline...b-content.html
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  • Profile picture of the author Steve The Copywriter
    @ Kay

    Yes it is - thank you Kay.

    If anyone wants to... (click the link on Kay's Post 29)

    Then...

    Click the link on Post 1.

    Then go to Post 8 and click "Secret Formula. pdf"


    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author max5ty
    So, although I think the postcard thing is a great idea...for almost 100% of the people it won't work.

    Walking cold into a business and asking for $500 to send the postcard is going to get you nowhere.

    If you notice, those that sold the program have a print shop and are dealing with customers they already have...

    if you already have customers in the local market...you have a chance.

    I hate to be a killjoy but I'm being honest here.

    I'm just not going to be behind something that sounds good in theory but doesn't work in reality.

    I edited this: I'm not talking about single postcards...I'm talking about the 9x12 EDDM thing
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    • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
      Max5ty, I agree 90%.

      The other 10, is for those who know and are experienced, and do not do things the way you say.

      I would never walk into a business and ask for 500 to send a postcard out. The RIGHT way, for those of us who DO NOT own a print shop or have that as our backend, is to do it in a tried and tested and proven way.

      Best way, from MY perspective, find a host. They PAY NOTHING, not 500, not 400, not 300...but NOTHING, to have their business on a co-op card. Then, THEY, in lieu of paying you, give referrals, and you give them FIRST chance to be on card, before you call their competitors. If Mary the Realtor hosts the card, and she refers me to Joesphine the Plumber, and Jo sez no...then I ask her which one of her competitors would she like to see on the card.

      And by having several business SHARE the cost of the card, none of them have to spend 500, or 400 or whatever. And, smaller mailings, a pizza shop, for example has no reason, not good business to send out an offer on 10,000 cards. Better to target a neighborhood of up to 2500 within their markets.

      I agree that MOST won't be able to do it, mainly because they drank the kool aid and bought into the hype, from the guys/gals with printing businesses...and probably 90% or more who tried it a few years ago, today wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole.

      Getting a referral from a HOST, is totally different than cold calling on businesses and selling ADVERTISING, totally WRONG approach.

      Most people, shouldn't even give this a second look.

      But, a few...it doesn't have to be complicated, difficult and can even be done remotely.

      Other than that, I agree with you 98%

      GordonJ





      Originally Posted by max5ty View Post

      So, although I think the postcard thing is a great idea...for almost 100% of the people it won't work.

      Walking cold into a business and asking for $500 to send the postcard is going to get you nowhere.

      If you notice, those that sold the program have a print shop and are dealing with customers they already have...

      if you already have customers in the local market...you have a chance.

      I hate to be a killjoy but I'm being honest here.

      I'm just not going to be behind something that sounds good in theory but doesn't work in reality.

      I edited this: I'm not talking about single postcards...I'm talking about the 9x12 EDDM thing
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      • Profile picture of the author max5ty
        Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

        Max5ty, I agree 90%.

        The other 10, is for those who know and are experienced, and do not do things the way you say.

        I would never walk into a business and ask for 500 to send a postcard out. The RIGHT way, for those of us who DO NOT own a print shop or have that as our backend, is to do it in a tried and tested and proven way.

        Best way, from MY perspective, find a host. They PAY NOTHING, not 500, not 400, not 300...but NOTHING, to have their business on a co-op card. Then, THEY, in lieu of paying you, give referrals, and you give them FIRST chance to be on card, before you call their competitors. If Mary the Realtor hosts the card, and she refers me to Joesphine the Plumber, and Jo sez no...then I ask her which one of her competitors would she like to see on the card.

        And by having several business SHARE the cost of the card, none of them have to spend 500, or 400 or whatever. And, smaller mailings, a pizza shop, for example has no reason, not good business to send out an offer on 10,000 cards. Better to target a neighborhood of up to 2500 within their markets.

        I agree that MOST won't be able to do it, mainly because they drank the kool aid and bought into the hype, from the guys/gals with printing businesses...and probably 90% or more who tried it a few years ago, today wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole.

        Getting a referral from a HOST, is totally different than cold calling on businesses and selling ADVERTISING, totally WRONG approach.

        Most people, shouldn't even give this a second look.

        But, a few...it doesn't have to be complicated, difficult and can even be done remotely.

        Other than that, I agree with you 98%

        GordonJ
        Thanks Gordon.

        Like you, I've been in this whole thing for almost 40 years...

        says a lot when you look back over the forum and see posts from those that were on fire a few years ago and now you look at their websites and there's nothing there.

        Hanging in and loving the whole thing for over 40 years says a lot for someone.

        I did an exhaustive search on the whole 9x12 thing (yes, I have too much time on my hands) and I found that almost all of them that advertised were nowhere to be found anymore...

        it was a lot of hype that sold a bunch and then faded away (like most of the shiny things).

        You're experienced. You have a lot of hard miles and ups and downs. You know as well as I do that this whole 9x12 thing isn't going to work for almost 100% of the people that try it.

        My only thing is... I think unless you're experienced or have customers already, this isn't going to work...
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        • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
          I want your opinion, because I am either too jaded, or gotten so old I forgot.

          What you say about the 9x12 crowd, and how it doesn't work for most, and in my words, there was kool aid sold, kool aid bought and kool aid drunk...and most of those early profits died long ago.

          I have a similar feeling about COPYWRITING as a business opportunity. We've seen tens of thousands of people want to become copywriters, and we can both go back in time and see how it was a more specialized, professional craft.

          But, it is sold, marketed and promoted as a biz op, and I feel that very few will ever make a decent living from it, and those people, are like the 9x12 KoolAid kids, just can't do it.

          Am I being too much of a curmudgeon? Cause surely, there will be a few who do very well and as the saying goes, hope springs eternal.

          Maybe I am being too hard on the industry?

          Gordon


          Originally Posted by max5ty View Post

          Thanks Gordon.

          Like you, I've been in this whole thing for almost 40 years...

          says a lot when you look back over the forum and see posts from those that were on fire a few years ago and now you look at their websites and there's nothing there.

          Hanging in and loving the whole thing for over 40 years says a lot for someone.

          I did an exhaustive search on the whole 9x12 thing (yes, I have too much time on my hands) and I found that almost all of them that advertised were nowhere to be found anymore...

          it was a lot of hype that sold a bunch and then faded away (like most of the shiny things).

          You're experienced. You have a lot of hard miles and ups and downs. You know as well as I do that this whole 9x12 thing isn't going to work for almost 100% of the people that try it.

          My only thing is I think unless you're experienced or have customers already, this isn't going to work...
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  • Profile picture of the author max5ty
    Most of those that came into the (industry), never came into the (industry)...

    they didn't sell squat. It was all promises that if they learned how to put together a sales letter they would have fortunes. Didn't happen.

    Some big names (I won't mention) made a tidy sum...I see they're all over Facebook again trying to revive their old scams, but it isn't working
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  • Profile picture of the author Steve The Copywriter
    coughs...

    I've been in the game for over 40 years as well.

    And mentored a few good people in the wonderful world of copywriting (never using the dreaded words "biz op").


    Instead I suggest it can become a very lucrative career - with the emphasise on "long term."

    But it needs 2 things.

    A lot of effort.

    To learn how to sell (in person and in print).


    Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
      Originally Posted by Steve The Copywriter View Post

      coughs...
      I've been in the game for over 40 years as well.
      And mentored a few good people in the wonderful world of copywriting (never using the dreaded words "biz op").

      Instead I suggest it can become a very lucrative career - with the emphasise on "long term."
      But it needs 2 things.
      A lot of effort.
      To learn how to sell (in person and in print).


      Steve
      Yes Steve,

      But I will argue there is a huge difference between having a MENTOR, and buying a course, say AWAI or one of the thousand out there and reading a few books, joining a Facebook group...and then calling oneself a copywriter.

      The difference between, say, a craft learned from a pro like yourself...and a Biz-Op, where for 500 bux there is a promise for quick, easy and anyone can do it. NO?

      Maybe, mentors, having someone actually guiding a student, and a GROUP leader, with 25k members who hasn't written copy in years, and didn't write all that much to begin with maybe, having a mentor is one line in the sand between the two.

      Not debating the skill, the craft, the DEDICATION and LONG term part of it...just gander at Freelancer, Upwork, etc., and then tell me Copywriting has NOT been marketed as a BizOP.

      GordonJ
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  • Profile picture of the author Steve The Copywriter
    For me -

    It has to be one mentee at a time.

    If they are not serious - they'll soon fade away.

    But when they are dedicated - they are such a pleasure to work with.

    And deserve a solo spot.


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  • Profile picture of the author savidge4
    I get whats being said here... 99% if not damn near 100% wont make this work. same is true with any and every method of making money known to man... buying and selling real estate, the stock market, Affiliate marketing, selling goods, selling any service.

    Sure I have a printing press in my shop... Im that guy, that says "oh its easy". BUT keep in mind here... I didnt buy the press and then start offering the service. I used GotPrint for Y E A R S before I finally made the investment ( and should have done it earlier )

    I am going to go out on a limb here... the basic concept of walking into any store or place of business and offering a spot on a card is probably the most beginner friendly service to sell. With companies like GotPrint, and Fiver or Freelance to do the graphic work - there is essentially no skill base required.

    Not that those reading this in the shadows wants to hear this... but selling face to face, at a local level is easier than building some online sales funnel with umpteen working parts that can "create" failure.

    The people that you are talking with are not saying NO to YOU... they are saying NO to the way you presented your offer. Its the offer that sucks, NOT you. Once you get that through your head... the game becomes easy.

    How I personally would walk in and sell this... how Gordon would walk in and sell this... how Claude would walk in and sell this... how Steve might walk in and sell this... each and every one of us, I would more than bet will have a different approach.

    Im sorry to call this out, but the Oh you guys have a client base to sell this too... absolute none sense. Do I offer this to existing clients... sure I do. Do I drive my happy tail end to say Pittsburgh and go Face to Face with people I have no clue who they are and they have no clue who I am... you bet I do.

    The cold hard truth is selling takes practice - one less NO to a YES ( thank you Colonel Sanders ) and this does not just apply to selling post cards... this applies to selling on eBay... read the assorted threads of Art's that is running around... he is struggling a bit.. its not as easy as my experience on my eBay thread... why is that? I have experience for days selling crap online... once you know it... you KNOW it.

    Selling is a learned skill... a skill that will serve anyone and everyone for the rest of their lives... 99.9% that even attempt this will fail - will quit. The failure isnt in whats being sold... its not changing up whats said and how its being sold. I dont close every deal I make - I have "Failure" ( and honestly I dont even call them that - they are poor fits for what I am selling ) because you can never sell to 100% of those you are making an offer to.

    You can replace the post card in this discussion with anything... Vacuums, used goods on eBay, Little reports, Knife sets, Girl Scout cookies - ANYTHING. If you are not out there regardless of the form that may take ( online, offline ) TRYING to sell, and adjusting as you go to the point you actually start selling... you are not failing - you have QUIT - and to not even try... eh, get a day job and shut up about not enjoying it - its on you ( choices )
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    • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
      Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

      I get whats being said here... 99% if not damn near 100% wont make this work. same is true with any and every method of making money known to man... buying and selling real estate, the stock market, Affiliate marketing, selling goods, selling any service.

      Sure I have a printing press in my shop... Im that guy, that says "oh its easy". BUT keep in mind here... I didnt buy the press and then start offering the service. I used GotPrint for Y E A R S before I finally made the investment ( and should have done it earlier )

      I am going to go out on a limb here... the basic concept of walking into any store or place of business and offering a spot on a card is probably the most beginner friendly service to sell. With companies like GotPrint, and Fiver or Freelance to do the graphic work - there is essentially no skill base required.

      Not that those reading this in the shadows wants to hear this... but selling face to face, at a local level is easier than building some online sales funnel with umpteen working parts that can "create" failure.

      The people that you are talking with are not saying NO to YOU... they are saying NO to the way you presented your offer. Its the offer that sucks, NOT you. Once you get that through your head... the game becomes easy.

      How I personally would walk in and sell this... how Gordon would walk in and sell this... how Claude would walk in and sell this... how Steve might walk in and sell this... each and every one of us, I would more than bet will have a different approach.

      Im sorry to call this out, but the Oh you guys have a client base to sell this too... absolute none sense. Do I offer this to existing clients... sure I do. Do I drive my happy tail end to say Pittsburgh and go Face to Face with people I have no clue who they are and they have no clue who I am... you bet I do.

      The cold hard truth is selling takes practice - one less NO to a YES ( thank you Colonel Sanders ) and this does not just apply to selling post cards... this applies to selling on eBay... read the assorted threads of Art's that is running around... he is struggling a bit.. its not as easy as my experience on my eBay thread... why is that? I have experience for days selling crap online... once you know it... you KNOW it.

      Selling is a learned skill... a skill that will serve anyone and everyone for the rest of their lives... 99.9% that even attempt this will fail - will quit. The failure isnt in whats being sold... its not changing up whats said and how its being sold. I dont close every deal I make - I have "Failure" ( and honestly I dont even call them that - they are poor fits for what I am selling ) because you can never sell to 100% of those you are making an offer to.

      You can replace the post card in this discussion with anything... Vacuums, used goods on eBay, Little reports, Knife sets, Girl Scout cookies - ANYTHING. If you are not out there regardless of the form that may take ( online, offline ) TRYING to sell, and adjusting as you go to the point you actually start selling... you are not failing - you have QUIT - and to not even try... eh, get a day job and shut up about not enjoying it - its on you ( choices )
      Yes.

      You are not failing, you have quit, and to not even try, well get a day job and SHUT UP about not enjoying it, its on you, it is/was your choice.

      I'd like to use this as the title/headline for my next report: IT'S ON YOU.

      I confess, I often forget what I know and where that came from, and experience has become so ingrained, it may be second nature. Whereas, many people, just starting, or starting over like our old Warrior friends in the main forum, just don't know what they want, or how to proceed.

      The INTERNET had one huge promise built into it, back in the very early 1990s, it had the idea that we would SOMEDAY, be able to sell things to anyone, anywhere in the world, while sitting in our lazyboy chairs. It was a subtle promise, which early bird marketers, many from the Remote DIRECT MARKETING industry jumped on.

      Think how those silly, stupid and spurious guys must have been to think they could sell stuff to people all over the world from their easy chairs in their home offices, or from the kitchen table...HA, and the real simpleton had the idea he could sell electrons. How Ridiculuous was that, in 1993? VERY.

      And yet, today....he. he. he sez the simpleton.

      Now, selling direct to someone, along with public speaking has always been a huge no no, a great fear and a dreaded thing to do, for MOST. And those that COULD, or actually would, received really good rewards, especially financial ones.

      Mail Order was the precursor to IM, it also had the promise of NOT having to see anyone or talk or GOD FORBID, go and try to sell someone something...

      It can be done REMOTELY, using either eensy-teeny classified ads, mail, space ads, TV, radio and newspaper/magazines and the sales were made by COPY, or advertising.

      And, most Warriors, I bet the 99% of them, come here seeking the HOW to, exactly because they don't or can't even imagine actually talking to someone and try to get them to buy something from them...it is the built in PROMISE of IM, after all. Press keys on your keyboard.

      That is fine and dandy. So, those guys who are STARTING OVER in the main forum, will be advised on ways that they can currently PRESS KEYS, and start over with their IM, while in the meantime, the very few, the smaller % that even read OFFLINE, cause, sheesh, that might involve talking to someone...

      the very few. Indeed. Will at least know that there is opportunity right outside their doors, be it vacuums, reports, tshirts, cookware, dinnerware, pills, ointments, even dreams... all ready to be offered to people with cash in their pockets and a willingness to buy, IF you give them a good enough reason to do so.

      The thing is, you have to present that MESSAGE, for the most part, as a person, albeit, with eBay, etc., a VIRTUAL one, but still...

      putting yourself out there...Or just get that day job and S*** U* already.

      GordonJ
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  • Profile picture of the author max5ty
    @Savidge4 - thanks for your comment.

    I get the whole sales thing. I've posted on here before about how I started out in car sales in the 80s and quickly became a sales manager where all I did is close deals all day that other salespeople couldn't close...so yes I understand sales.

    I also understand how important postcards are.

    Every. Single. Month. we get one from the Hollywood Casino in Toledo. Free money to gamble and free food...and Every. Single. Month. we end up there because I own a couple of businesses in Toledo.

    My girlfriend (we've been together for over 20 years) always gets a better one than me. They're personalized.

    I'm a cheap skate. To me, $1000 is my limit for the day. Hers is about $10K. I play the penny machines where the minimum bet is .20...but of course, she is in the high limit area. This has caused us many arguments in the past. I've learned to just buy the $5 beer and get a buzz and relax...

    I've often tried to consider how to keep these postcards from coming.

    My comment about being a printer did not apply to you. I had no idea you owned a print shop.

    The guy that originally sold the course owns a print shop in New York. After the postcard thing, he sold another course on selling printing to local businesses.

    I have nothing against anyone trying to sell a course or making money...

    I just think there are better ways for someone to make money locally
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    • Profile picture of the author savidge4
      Originally Posted by max5ty View Post

      I have nothing against anyone trying to sell a course or making money...

      I just think there are better ways for someone to make money locally
      This right here is a big hang up for me... I can make more money DOING the service than I can taking the time and effort selling how to do the service - so why exactly would I do that?

      And I know that statement opens up a whole can of worms...

      but I could write out a whole eBay, an Etsy, A Facebook, An Instagram, An Amazon Makers store program and sell them each for say $79.00 each... how many of those am I going to sell? and then compare time to dollars on actually doing the thing ( selling on those platforms) If I am paying someone to be a 20% of operations of a 7 digit business or 100% of a $100,000 business ( selling the courses ) as a business owner, where do you direct your resources?

      Now putting this into an either or box.. one man show type... yes, You just take the time and build out the course and let the "Passive" income stack up. Even though we all know there is nothing passive about it..

      OR

      as a business owner with employees you start weighing out time spent by the employee and ROI on the investment that is Payroll... I can add another person to my actual platform team and more than likely increase 7 digit sales by 20% or I can add another employee and have them produce something south of 10% of the selling business.

      I have talked about it.. IT being Legacy... i need to start sharing what I know in a meaningful and comprehensive way - much like Claude does ( respect the crap out of that path he is on )

      My business has gotten to the point I am a COO - I do sales and make sure everyone is happy and has what they need - I call myself the Chief Dynamics officer - basically Im a very under qualified psychologist haha The overall environment that I work in, as well as everyone around me is very important - Priority one - Happy me, happy employees... happy employees, happy me - and in the end we end up with happy customers.

      So back on topic...Im not a big fan of people pushing courses.. because the reality is how many of them are successful at what they are doing? Because again, if they are successful... they wouldnt have time to be selling how to.

      In some cases, yes the actual course is an avenue of revenue to the service the seller provides.. IE sell a postcard bus op, and have a printing press.

      I personally go great lengths NOT TO offer my services in any way shape or form here on a professional level... have I pulled business from the WF? sure I have... entered into some outstanding partnerships... have gained BIG clients - all of my words here have not been for nothing. All the more reason I take the time most days to share here - to give back to what has given to me.

      The art of selling is just that... it is an art... it is learned through practice - 10,000 hours ( if not more )

      Selling on eBay sounds super easy... but understanding the dynamic of the Title, the pictures, the price, and then throwing in shipping is a THING. Its an art... it is learned - and because we at 40 yrs in, are so used to doing these things its hard for us to see the complications.

      What gets interesting and I am sure you all have read me say this before... once you can get selling on eBay down... the skills of Headlines, Pricing and Presentation of an offer are LEARNED skills meaning you did your time already... you understand how those things work - selling becomes easier - AND you are getting paid to learn..a nd not hurting a client in the process.
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      • Profile picture of the author animal44
        Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

        So back on topic...Im not a big fan of people pushing courses.. because the reality is how many of them are successful at what they are doing? Because again, if they are successful... they wouldnt have time to be selling how to.
        Better sit down, I'm in agreement with you...!

        Except... I'm teaching people.

        Why?

        Because my motivation has nothing to do with me making money....

        And being successful doesn't mean working 18 hour days. Just the opposite.

        Today is a Sunday and I've just slept in. Well I wasn't actually sleeping... but this is family friendly forum...

        Meanwhile I have 8 campaigns running making me money... all on autoresponder... I have all the time in the world to sit around in my "lazyboy chair" if I choose to do so.

        Or to teach somebody how to do the same...

        My issue with Gordon's premise is that the client gets a raw deal. It's the selling Ice to Eskimos mentality. Who cares so long as I make money, right?

        So, from a client's perspective what would do better than a postcard full of ads?
        A postcard with a single ad.

        What would do better than a postcard with a single ad?
        A letter.

        What would do better than a letter?
        A personalised letter

        What would do better than a personalised letter?
        A sequence of personalised letters

        What would do better than a sequence of personalised letters?
        A sequence of personalised letters sent to a list of known buyers

        What would do better than a sequence of personalised letters sent to a list of known buyers?
        Ha! You have to buy the WSO to find that out...!

        So what's better for the client?

        Who's going to get the repeat business?

        Who's going to achieve a level of success that they can spend their time how they choose whether it be sitting around in their "lazyboy chair", or teaching others, or spending their mornings playing games with wifey...?

        PS I'm doing really well these days...
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        People say nothing is impossible, but I do nothing every day.
        What I do for a living

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  • Profile picture of the author max5ty
    So, I've talked before over the years in different posts on here how we have a group that meets once a month...and have for years. We brainstorm business problems, new ideas, etc. We've come up with some stuff that is just mind-blowing and earth-shattering, and...well, you get the idea...

    we had discussed (although not in great depth) the whole new (at the time) 9x12 craze that was sweeping the marketing circles. We all agreed there were better options, but...

    here are a couple of thoughts for those that do postcards or the 9x12 thing...and actually you can go up to 12x15 for eddm.

    No advertising should have any wasted opportunities. Every single penny you spend on advertising should explore every possible angle to achieve the best results you can possibly squeeze out of it.

    What I'm going to suggest, I haven't seen on any 9x12 example or heard anyone talking about this, but I believe it's something you should consider if you're in the postcard business.

    If you put a coupon on your 9x12 (and I'm just using this size because it's the most talked about)...the customer brings the coupon in and gets the special.

    But, the way most are set up, they're missing out on the 90% important part, which is helping the vendor build a database of customers that they can continue to market to over and over again.

    Offering a database is a plus for the vendor, and it builds value in your offer.

    Yes, there are very few vendors that will get a customer's info when they use the coupon...but the number of vendors that do is very very minimal. Why not make it easy for them with a drop-dead simple method?

    A very easy method is to put a QR code on each coupon. Since virtually every phone can scan a QR code now without any additional app...it's easy. They scan the code, it takes them to a form where they put their phone # or email, and they're either sent the coupon by text or email.

    You can send texts now for 2 cents each, and of course, email is free or dirt cheap also.

    By having the customer fill out the form to get the coupon, you're building a database for the vendor. It's a great selling point.

    If you decide not to go with the QR code, you can also go with the tablet method.

    By the register have a tablet mounted with the form displaying (phone or email), and have the customer fill out the form to be able to use their coupon.

    This seems like a complicated process for the business owner, but you can take a website builder and have like 30 pages, and each page just has a signup form for each business. You then just have the tablet opened to that page at each business. Holders for these tablets are cheap. You could include these?

    I could go on and on about how important a database is, but hopefully, you're aware of what advantages they offer without me droning on for another 5 paragraphs.

    Just a couple of quick ideas. Good luck if you decide to go the giant postcard route.

    Added: Forgot to say, once your customer has a database, you then have an upsell where you can send targeted cards to their customers etc
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    • Profile picture of the author savidge4
      Originally Posted by max5ty View Post

      No advertising should have any wasted opportunities. Every single penny you spend on advertising should explore every possible angle to achieve the best results you can possibly squeeze out of it.

      If you put a coupon on your 9x12 (and I'm just using this size because it's the most talked about)...the customer brings the coupon in and gets the special.

      But, the way most are set up, they're missing out on the 90% important part, which is helping the vendor build a database of customers that they can continue to market to over and over again.

      Offering a database is a plus for the vendor, and it builds value in your offer.
      So here is my thinking and solution to this problem...

      The Biggest hurdle here is yes getting those names on a list... and the NEXT hurdle is converting them to another platform for message delivery - and as I say "let the friction begin"

      So the customer walks in with a postcard / coupon... on said postcard / coupon is the mailing address of the user... all you need at this point is the NAME of the customer - maybe a credit card transaction? or if paying cash simply ask and write the name on the postcard / coupon.

      Rate of success stays at its highest percentage if the method of communication remains the same through out the relationship. If you meet a business owner doing face to face... when possible and more so speak that client face to face. If you get them from facebook..communicate through facebook... if the initial contact is by mail... mail them.

      Case and point here... the Casino is sending 2 cards to your address- do they calll? do the send e-mails? do they send text messages? have they asked you to scan a QR code?

      The most effective method of communication is the method used to onboard a new client.

      Get the address of the mailer - insert the name and send them a thank you card THAT DAY.

      A dirty little secret... you KNOW the address', there is nothing saying that certain customers within an EDDM stack of cards cant have a separate message - ding ding ding. Call this the advantage to in house printing LOL
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      • Profile picture of the author max5ty
        Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

        So here is my thinking and solution to this problem...

        The Biggest hurdle here is yes getting those names on a list... and the NEXT hurdle is converting them to another platform for message delivery - and as I say "let the friction begin"

        So the customer walks in with a postcard / coupon... on said postcard / coupon is the mailing address of the user... all you need at this point is the NAME of the customer - maybe a credit card transaction? or if paying cash simply ask and write the name on the postcard / coupon.

        Rate of success stays at its highest percentage if the method of communication remains the same through out the relationship. If you meet a business owner doing face to face... when possible and more so speak that client face to face. If you get them from facebook..communicate through facebook... if the initial contact is by mail... mail them.

        Case and point here... the Casino is sending 2 cards to your address- do they calll? do the send e-mails? do they send text messages? have they asked you to scan a QR code?

        The most effective method of communication is the method used to onboard a new client.

        Get the address of the mailer - insert the name and send them a thank you card THAT DAY.

        A dirty little secret... you KNOW the address', there is nothing saying that certain customers within an EDDM stack of cards cant have a separate message - ding ding ding. Call this the advantage to in house printing LOL
        Couple quick things:

        I'm confused when you say the customer walks in with the address on the card because EDDM doesn't have addresses...

        also, yes, every machine can be played at the casino by scanning a QR code...it opens the app which records everything. Also, the cards have a QR code to scan for prizes.

        Edit: maybe I misread parts of your comment

        Also to add to this. I've found that when a customer is getting a special offer, they don't mind giving you their info. They're at your place because they're interested in it. Scanning a QR code (or tablet method), etc., to me is drop-dead simple and takes a few seconds. I would not however recommend sending non-stop offers or spamming them because it leads to bad relationships (obviously)
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        • Profile picture of the author savidge4
          Originally Posted by max5ty View Post

          I'm confused when you say the customer walks in with the address on the card because EDDM doesn't have addresses...
          It has to have an address, and in many cases will have "Current Resident" for the name. Some mailing lists will have the name of the address.

          Aww I have a permit... so I have to include the address ( costs less to send this way ) or you can Use Retail EDDM and use "Local Postal customer" - but it cost more to do this.
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          • Profile picture of the author max5ty
            Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

            Aww I have a permit...
            Oh ok...because we've sent a ton load of EDDM (not the 9x12 type) and it's always local postal customer with no address
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  • Profile picture of the author max5ty
    So this probably won't appeal to many...and it is only available in the U.S...

    I actually spent about 6 hours studying this today and thought it was worth someone trying if they were into direct mail...and I think it could go along with this post.

    Some of you may have heard about informed delivery. You can sign up with the USPS and every morning you get an email that shows you a scan of all the mail you'll be getting for that day. It's free to sign up.

    There are actually millions that have signed up.

    But, the good thing about the program for marketers is you can market to those people that have signed up if you're sending direct mail.

    You can have your piece linked to a website etc., as well as place an ad...there is no charge for this service.

    Your prospect sees they're getting a mail piece from you...there can be an ad, or not...with a link. If someone clicks the link you can then follow up blah, blah, blah. This is all before they ever actually receive your mail piece. I did some research on those using it and they said they were getting good results...and since it was free, the price was right for the extra boost.

    It's free which is good. Takes a little understanding of it. But from the statistics, I've seen it's worth it.

    Here's the program from the USPS:

    https://www.usps.com/business/informed-delivery.htm

    Won't go into all the details because it would take a whole course to explain...but if you're interested, it's something you could look into. Just a little tip.

    I also discovered another tip that tops this one and is good worldwide. I'll mention it tomorrow, but in the meantime, if you're doing direct mail this is worth looking into. Sorry for being short on time
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    • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
      The beta test of digital offers caught my eye. Too early into it, but it looks promising for the Business Card Distribution mailer, and adding a link to the USPS to get the recipients to sign up, may be a win/win/win for all.

      Thanks for staying on top of this stuff, again, too early to say, but maybe after 200+ years of being the F up USPS, they are finally getting something right??? Although, they could do a better job letting people know about this, but, a lot is still beta.

      Thank goodness you're here.

      Always fun to be on the front of the wave, if it doesn't crash us into the rocks.

      GordonJ


      Originally Posted by max5ty View Post

      So this probably won't appeal to many...and it is only available in the U.S...

      I actually spent about 6 hours studying this today and thought it was worth someone trying if they were into direct mail...and I think it could go along with this post.

      Some of you may have heard about informed delivery. You can sign up with the USPS and every morning you get an email that shows you a scan of all the mail you'll be getting for that day. It's free to sign up.

      There are actually millions that have signed up.

      But, the good thing about the program for marketers is you can market to those people that have signed up if you're sending direct mail.

      You can have your piece linked to a website etc., as well as place an ad...there is no charge for this service.

      Your prospect sees they're getting a mail piece from you...there can be an ad, or not...with a link. If someone clicks the link you can then follow up blah, blah, blah. This is all before they ever actually receive your mail piece. I did some research on those using it and they said they were getting good results...and since it was free, the price was right for the extra boost.

      It's free which is good. Takes a little understanding of it. But from the statistics, I've seen it's worth it.

      Here's the program from the USPS:

      https://www.usps.com/business/informed-delivery.htm

      Won't go into all the details because it would take a whole course to explain...but if you're interested, it's something you could look into. Just a little tip.

      I also discovered another tip that tops this one and is good worldwide. I'll mention it tomorrow, but in the meantime, if you're doing direct mail this is worth looking into. Sorry for being short on time
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  • Profile picture of the author danwalker
    It's always a shocker to see people still doing direct mail heavily. But then I look in my mailbox and see tons of random stuff, so there's definitely still money in it. Good stuff
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