Offline Consultant Questions....

73 replies
Hi,

I have seen several reports about offline marketing for local businesses.

I know how to approach the business but what I need to know is what someone would sell as a package. For instance -

$500/month includes:

site updates each month per client request
2 new keyword analysis and SEO for those keywords each month
2 press releases each month
2 articles each month

should I be including anything else in this package?

What about $1000/month - what else would you include in a package like that?

Basically it seems that I will be charging them xxx per month to build their online reputation and presence.

I am guessing they already have a website, if they don't I know that will be extra and I can either do it myself or source it out.

Thanks
Bryan
#consultant #offline #questions
  • Profile picture of the author Jill Carpenter
    I wouldn't (and don't) charge that much.

    May I ask where you are pulling these figures from?
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    • Profile picture of the author sal64
      We work on a simple principle: To provide the best value within the clients budget.

      First things first... determine what their budget is, and work out your costs.

      It also comes down to how you define your services.

      Are you providing a website for them? In this case I'd work out the cost and add a 100% mark up.

      As for the ongoing service, I provide various levels to suit their budget. It's simple marketing really. Have a Silver, Gold, Platinum and Diamond level.

      Make sure that any hosting is done on your reseller hosting sit, same with autoresponders.

      Hope this helps you in some way.
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  • Profile picture of the author ArtiGal
    Hi,
    One additional thing you might want to offer is to create a site or add an email capture to an existing site if the client isn't collecting leads. You can offer to create a bi weekly or monthly newsletter for your clients as part of the monthly.

    I recall Tim Castleman (offline marketer to local businesses) putting together a good, better and best package - or call it bronze, silver and gold package. For the bronze level, I believe he charged a flat $250 for setting up email capture and autoresponder - this would be the one off charge and client takes it from there.

    There are lots of different ways you can tailor your package deals - just depends on what you feel comfortable offering for a fair price.

    Hope that helps a bit,

    Elise
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  • Profile picture of the author b.super13
    Those figures are from a few reports I have read that say you should not charge less than $500 a month for services - in their opinion - obviously you can charge whatever you want

    Maybe I can have a $250/month package and a $500/month package
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  • Profile picture of the author b.super13
    Thanks Elise, that does help.

    that is a good idea, bronze, silver, and gold

    I guess what I am trying to get at is what SHOULD I do for say $500 a month?

    You think this would be reasonable

    Add lead capture
    bi weekly newsletter to clients
    2 press releases a month
    2 articles a month
    optimize site for 3 keywords relating to the business and the area

    Then I can send the client a monthly report saying how many leads they have received and a traffic report
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  • Profile picture of the author b.super13
    Cool - thanks for the tip

    You mean if they don't have a website then send them through the hosting I'm affiliated with and the autoresponder I'm affiliated with, right?
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    • Profile picture of the author dremora
      Originally Posted by b.super13 View Post

      Cool - thanks for the tip

      You mean if they don't have a website then send them through the hosting I'm affiliated with and the autoresponder I'm affiliated with, right?
      You can host their stuff on your reseller acct and and autoresponder.
      Charge them for hosting and managing it.
      But really screw selling a commodity, you are better off acting like a real consultant/strategist and price it accordingly. Don't be the little guy who does the SEO.
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    • Profile picture of the author sal64
      Originally Posted by b.super13 View Post

      Cool - thanks for the tip

      You mean if they don't have a website then send them through the hosting I'm affiliated with and the autoresponder I'm affiliated with, right?
      To a degree yes.

      You are going to have 2 levels of clients (and I agree that SEO is dead end). These will be based on ability and willingness to spend. As has been pointed out. Some pay $1000's for yellow pages, so they are willing to spend. These I would target immediately.

      Now, having said that... if a client can afford to spend 5 figures, they get everything set up for them. Naturally, if you are setting up hosting and an AR service, then sign them up as an affiliate so you get residual income.

      If they are low budget, then I'd consider hosting them on my account as well as email management on my account. If they want full control later, then arrange a buy out figure.

      If there is monthly maintenance involved, then set up your outsource team... Work out hard costs, then add 100% margin.

      I have a simply philosophy in this business...

      You must avoid a situation where you do things for a low monthly fee... then the clients says thanks very much, we don't need you.

      So if I make sure that I charge a high up front to protect my interests. And if they can't afford it, then they are welcome to lease my assets on a monthly fee.
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  • Profile picture of the author dremora
    Well I wouldn't bother with SEO other than the initial SEO consulting. SEO is the least of your concerns for offline business.

    Make them a twitter account and facebook fan page, get them targeted local followers, make press release and youtube vids, also regularly updated blog. I would charge more than 500 for all of that (if you are starting out and have a hard time selling, you can charge less or even offer free trial for a couple weeks to hook them up)

    Some companies are chaging $500 for just facebook fan page landing templates.

    SEO sharks in my town charge $3000 for web site design + SEO (and that's the low end!)

    You can charge them $1000/mo for just setting up and managing autoresponder account and help building their customer database (which will be pretty much autopilot) and writing (or outsourcing) copy for autoresponder emails.
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    • Profile picture of the author sal64
      Originally Posted by dremora View Post

      Well I wouldn't bother with SEO other than the initial SEO consulting. SEO is the least of your concerns for offline business.

      Make them a twitter account and facebook fan page, get them targeted local followers, make press release and youtube vids, also regularly updated blog. I would charge more than 500 for all of that (if you are starting out and have a hard time selling, you can charge less or even offer free trial for a couple weeks to hook them up)

      Some companies are chaging $500 for just facebook fan page landing templates.

      SEO sharks in my town charge $3000 for web site design + SEO (and that's the low end!)

      You can charge them $1000/mo for just setting up and managing autoresponder account and help building their customer database (which will be pretty much autopilot) and writing (or outsourcing) copy for autoresponder emails.

      Agree totally. If you set up a website, then the main keywords would already be a part of the site. So I'm not sure how much seo you'd want to do.
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  • Profile picture of the author dremora
    Remember some of these people pay up to $20.000/mo for full page yellowpages ads, which gets them 0 results. You shouldn't turn your work into some commodity and charge ridiculously low fees. Target the yellowpages customers and sell them social media marketing packages.
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    • Profile picture of the author Jaymark
      Originally Posted by dremora View Post

      Remember some of these people pay up to $20.000/mo for full page yellowpages ads, which gets them 0 results. You shouldn't turn your work into some commodity and charge ridiculously low fees. Target the yellowpages customers and sell them social media marketing packages.
      All useful info. However the primary focus seems to be on what to sell someone. For example I've seen some folks say you can approach a biz and offer to create a FB biz page for five hundred bucks. What if you have no idea how to create a biz page????

      I'd feel a lot better soliciting businesses if I had either more knowledge of or specific resources to actually provide them with the actual deliverables. Any ideas or suggestions would be appreciated.
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      • Profile picture of the author John Durham
        Originally Posted by Jaymark View Post

        All useful info. However the primary focus seems to be on what to sell someone. For example I've seen some folks say you can approach a biz and offer to create a FB biz page for five hundred bucks. What if you have no idea how to create a biz page????

        I'd feel a lot better soliciting businesses if I had either more knowledge of or specific resources to actually provide them with the actual deliverables. Any ideas or suggestions would be appreciated.

        This is a given... if you dont understand how to facilitate a customer then you need to work for someone else and learn their canned pitch...

        I guess we presume that most people who want to do offline, as we encourage it as a good business opportunity, probably have a clue of what they want to offer already, but just dont know how to present it... but that is a false presumption.

        I am noticing alot of people who want to learn offline sales, arent even familiar with offline products.

        Interesting. You dont need to know alot as long as you outsource to someone capable, but you do need to at least have an idea of what you might want to offer, and understand your customers basic needs.

        I would hook up with a service provider in the classified section here... find out what they offer, , pick a package to res[present, learn to quote their offer (on that package) off the cuff and explain it like you know the back of your hand... and offer JV with them (the servic e provider) and represent their package. You do sales they do fulfillment.

        You may only offer ONE package, but make sure you can talk about that package from every angle.
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  • Profile picture of the author b.super13
    wow Thanks alot guys, this helps a great deal

    Thanks
    Bryan
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    • Profile picture of the author MRomeo09
      Platinum Package $2,195 down, $1,395/mo.(12 months)
      Google Maps, Local SEO and PPC

      Gold Package $1,495 down, $995/mo (12 months)
      Google Maps and Local SEO

      Silver Package $595 down, $450/mo (4 months)
      Google Maps Placement

      That was what I signed up a client for today. They took the Gold Package across multiple websites. So if they have 3 locations, they pay Gold X 3.

      That's just a sample, I price it based upon what I feel the competition will require. Here's another pricing structure for a meeting I have tomorrow.

      Website Redesign: $1795, $900 Down, $895 When Completed

      Platinum Package $1995 down, $1095/mo (12 Months) Google Maps, Local SEO and PPC

      Gold Package $1195 down, $795/mo (12 months) Google Maps and Local SEO

      Silver Package $595 down, $395/mo (4 months) Google Maps Placement

      Hope this helps.

      Marcos
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    • Profile picture of the author SDenham
      I haven't done a whole lot of offline consulting, but the little bit that I did do, it was painfully obvious that most offline B&M business owners don't have the basics of IM. Maybe you could offer to spend a little time going over the basics with them.

      Call it a Tutoring Session, and charge $150.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    1 would rather have 1000 people paying me 19.99 per month.... When you deal in volume you dont depend too much on any one customer. Plus the figure is so insignificant that people arent bothered by paying it for years.
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    • Profile picture of the author Jill Carpenter
      Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

      1 would rather have 1000 people paying me 19.99 per month.... When you deal in volume you dont depend too much on any one customer. Plus the figure is so insignificant that people arent bothered by paying it for years.
      Yes! I totally agree.

      Getting on Google maps takes all of like 5 minutes to do.

      Yes, yes, I know - we know things and need to charge for them. But don't rape the customers either.

      I know companies who just gave up on spending anything because they spent a ton and saw no results in a few months.

      Be fair.

      And I agree - much better to get some long term clients sending money regularly than hit hard for a month or 2 and have to dig up more.
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      • Profile picture of the author sal64
        It's not a question of raping a customer... and you would be crazy to not set up a recurring income stream as well.

        Fair value @ fair cost.

        You don't promise what you cannot deliver. Simple.

        1000 clients paying $20 sounds great.. but it also invites a ton of customer service issues.

        Find the 20% of clients who make you 80% of your income and sack the rest. Then find more of the same. That's what we do, and frankly, most if it is through word of mouth.

        I'd rather have 100 clients paying me $2k per month.

        If you want 1000 paying $20 then start a hosting company.

        Let's also define what being a consultant is. Are you a marketing consultant or a webmaster? 2 different services.

        As an online marketing consultant, you are paid to get results, not provide over priced websites.

        So your fees should reflect your expertise.
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        • Profile picture of the author Jill Carpenter
          Originally Posted by sal64 View Post


          1000 clients paying $20 sounds great.. but it also invites a ton of customer service issues.
          And that is when you charge a bit more - for special needs.

          With 20K a month, you can certainly hire on a couple of employees to man the phones...
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          • Profile picture of the author AndrewCavanagh
            I'm not going to go into charging here except to say that you don't necessarily have to charge large fees per month to get paid the same money.

            A larger upfront fee will often achieve the same thing...for example charging $2,500+ upfront (50% in advance...50% on completion of project).

            Also having a set fee structure is not necessarily a good idea.

            Every project is different so every fee should be different. Giving a prospect 2 or 3 options to choose from when you give them suggestions on the other hand can work well.

            Clients who pay more upfront are usually easier to work with.

            Charging more in general is a good principal as long as you understand what I'm about to say next...


            The amount you charge should be directly related to the value you deliver.

            In other words $500 can be a complete rip off for the the business or a stunning bargain based on the return in sales and profits you bring back for that business with the work you do.

            If you bring back $1,500+ in profits and charge $500 then that's a bargain regardless of what you did to get those results.

            If you bring back no profits yet have the business optimized all over google then you may have just ripped them off (unless you find a way to turn that work into profits).

            What you do is not so important...the results are.

            You've already listed quite a few services you could provide...article marketing, SEO, backlinking...you could also do lead generating reports, video, online press releases, adding email optin forms to a website with a compelling offer, email marketing (especially capturing existing prospects and clients offline in an email list) and anything else you can think of.

            When you're starting out it's usually best to focus on the things you know you can do easily yourself or you know you have someone you trust you can outsource to or joint venture with.

            And to really think through how you're going to help the businesses you work with make real profits.

            If you do that they'll hire you for project after project and happily give you high quality referrals.

            Kindest regards,
            Andrew Cavanagh
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          • Profile picture of the author sal64
            Originally Posted by avenuegirl View Post

            And that is when you charge a bit more - for special needs.

            With 20K a month, you can certainly hire on a couple of employees to man the phones...
            No doubt about it.

            As one can see on this thread... it all comes down to what you want to offer.. how long you want to work... and what type of model you want to create for your business.

            I believe you can have both.

            But the bottom line for me was and will always be that I fire clients that give me headaches.

            Now let's just break this down beyond straight numbers...

            As a consultant, what would you sell for $20 per month?

            As has been stated, you start by offering things you can do. At $20, I'd assume you're looking at seo and stuff like that? Then if so, it comes down to whether you want to employ a team of specialists to handle it for you, because if they screw up, it's your rep on the line.

            That's why I prefer the marketing approach. Sure a website is part of it, but I'm a marketer and charge accordingly for my expertise.

            I have sold products at voth ends of the price spectrum and in over 20 years, the higher priced products invite less stress if they deliver value for money.

            Bottom end attracts cheapskates who will bleed you dry in most cases. And I make no apologies for that comment.

            I like many value my time on an hourly basis, so it makes sense to charge accordingly.

            A customer service problem that takes one hour to solve is still one hour regardless of whether the customer is paying you $20 or $2000 per month.
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      • Profile picture of the author MRomeo09
        Originally Posted by avenuegirl View Post

        Yes! I totally agree.

        Getting on Google maps takes all of like 5 minutes to do.

        Yes, yes, I know - we know things and need to charge for them. But don't rape the customers either.

        I know companies who just gave up on spending anything because they spent a ton and saw no results in a few months.

        Be fair.

        And I agree - much better to get some long term clients sending money regularly than hit hard for a month or 2 and have to dig up more.
        I don't get out of bed for less than $2,000, PERIOD. In fact I don't sign clients any longer that don't sign up for less than $10k a year. The deal I signed this morning was one client, was more than my last salary as a senior developer in the "real world". But this is also a $50 Million dollar business with almost 20 locations. Who's the one who is taking advantage of who?

        And for all the silly talk about let me do Google Maps for $200, and struggling to get clients. I'm turning away clients wanting to give me $2,000 for the same service you can't sell for $200. You have to understand in the business world how things work.

        Rent = $1-5k a month
        Utilities = $1-2k a month
        Yellow Pages = $500-5k a month
        Insurance = $1k a month

        If you approach that business owner promising prominent placement on Google Maps for $200, you'll find they have a hard time believing you. It doesn't jive with what they are used to paying. You don't have any credibility, you sound like all the other spam emails they get daily.

        I'm good at what I do, and I value what I do. And I do what I say I'm going to do. I produce 10-20x the results of what I charge. And that's in the first year, then after that it's all profit on their end. I have a client who ended up on the talk show circuit, and went from a three person office to over 15 people due to paying me roughly $5k back in 2005. I have a testimonials where he calls me his $5 Million dollar man, and you're telling me that I'm ripping him off charging him $5k? Who ripped off whom?

        To be honest someone who believes 1,000 clients at $20/mo is better than 10 clients at $2k a month doesn't get it.

        How many business owners have you sat face to face and belly to belly with? I'm not talking, tried to sell anything to them, just find out about their business and what makes it run. Do you know how high their bills are? Are you used to the size of the checks that they write? Compare what you do to what the yellow pages charges, and then take a real hard look at what you're charging. It's not uncommon for a small business to have $100k flow through accounts monthly. The numbers are greater than you might think.

        The real truth is I can't charge enough to get compensated honestly for the work that I do. I tell them that within the first minute we meet too. I come right out and tell them if you could write me a check right now for $200k at the end of this meeting, it would still be a bargain for you. What type of frame do you set with that kind of statement? I walk away with big checks, and they feel like they got a deal.

        That's why I'm moving to lead gen and consulting agreements for percentages of gross. If I can get 8-20% of gross above baseline, that's compelling to me. But paying me $250 to do Google Maps where they will make $250k next year is an insult.

        Marcos
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        • Profile picture of the author John Durham
          Originally Posted by MRomeo09 View Post


          To be honest someone who believes 1,000 clients at $20/mo is better than 10 clients at $2k a month doesn't get it.

          How many business owners have you sat face to face and belly to belly with? I'm not talking, tried to sell anything to them, just find out about their business and what makes it run. Do you know how high their bills are? Are you used to the size of the checks that they write? Compare what you do to what the yellow pages charges, and then take a real hard look at what you're charging. It's not uncommon for a small business to have $100k flow through accounts monthly. The numbers are greater than you might think.

          Marcos
          I've OWNED businesses that did 100k per month, and have Managed others that did much more than that.

          The most successful business I have ever managed sold one hundred listings per day at 19.99 per month, and I have mentioned a gazillion times on this forum , sold 20,000 web listings the year I managed. Multiply that by ten years.

          There are many ways of doing business. My best friend made 30 million per year for 10 years straight selling a product that costs 50 cents per unit to walmart and lowes...

          The truth walks on many paths, yours is one.
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          • Profile picture of the author optimax
            I can see where you might be having difficulty with pricing.

            Just try and remember that the higher the perceived value, the more you can charge.

            I many cases, raising the price does have a much higher perceived value.

            Now we all know just because it retails for more, that does not mean it is better, or has more value than a lower price like item, but the truth is many do believe so.

            Case example, on one of my sites, I increased the retail pricing by approx. 15%, and I felt my pricing was already high for this particular product.

            I had more sales per day, and my average sale increased.

            Dramatically,

            Go figure?
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          • Profile picture of the author MRomeo09
            Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

            I've OWNED businesses that did 100k per month, and have Managed others that did much more than that.

            The most successful business I have ever managed sold one hundred listings per day at 19.99 per month, and I have mentioned a gazillion times on this forum , sold 20,000 web listings the year I managed. Multiply that by ten years.

            There are many ways of doing business. My best friend made 30 million per year for 10 years straight selling a product that costs 50 cents per unit to walmart and lowes...

            The truth walks on many paths, yours is one.
            But have you owned both kinds of businesses? Because they are radically different beasts. I have and do.

            For instance I own a service business. I have residential clients and commercial clients. The numbers don't lie the commercial clients are FAR more valuable to the business than the residential clients. Even though 80% of the new business we get is residential, 80% of the revenue is from the commercial. Pareto principal at it's best all in one business.

            I own businesses with average transactions of less than $50 and others where average transaction is greater than $10k. And all day every day I'd trade the $50 business for the $10k. All DAY!

            I get that you have anecdotal evidence to support your claim. I just happen to find the reality of business to support the higher transaction cost businesses over the lower ones. You rarely find cardiologists whose businesses fail, versus house painters who often fail.

            Specifically as far as consulting to "offline clients" goes, it's much easier to manage 20 clients than it is to manage 200. And if you can find a way to make just as much off the 20 as the 200 then you're golden.

            The real money is when you specifically target your EXACT market. I like business owners with multiple locations that own them locally. I prefer to develop a relationship with one decision maker that could bring a large stream of revenue without having to build new relationships. While John prefers the scattershot approach of client acquisition, I'm much more into the Chet Holmes Dream 100 laser targeted client acquisition. I just don't think it's that much more work to get 20 good value customers over trying to acquire 2,000.

            It's just my opinion, and according to my wife I'm usually wrong.

            Marcos
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            • Profile picture of the author John Durham
              I am not saying they are the same beast... Im defending the idea that one model is just as valid as the next, and for you to imply that anyone who charges a small monthly fee as opposed to a large one is basically ignorant, is basically ignorant.

              Especially being that there are MAJOR companies that operate on similar terms to the ones that I described above and do hundred of millions per year more than you in all likelihood will ever do.
              You say "I get that you have anecdotal evidence to support your claim".

              What kind of evidence do you recommend?

              One warrior HERE, made 20k his first two week of implementing the strategies in one of my reports after reading it... is that qualifying evidence?

              I am of the feeling that you are offended at my MASSIVE amount of free sharing on this forum.

              People know my intentions. There really isnt anything in my report, that you cant find me saying for FREE in the forums in literal VOLUMES... but people still buy it. In fact there isnt anything that you cant see Andy, or Andrew, or George or anyone else saying...

              Once again, people still buy it.

              Why?

              When you GIVE that much, and people know that you care that much... they will care more about what you know.

              The models presnted here are business models that 100's of people on this very forum make their living with, and when they go to the bank they dont feel stupid. Myself included.

              You can convince another person that doesnt know, but those who make bank deposits everyday off these systems that you say wouldnt pass your first sniff test... they know the truth.

              200 customers isnt hard to deal with than twenty... its all about your business being "systems" dependent and not "client" dependent.

              Originally Posted by MRomeo09 View Post

              But have you owned both kinds of businesses? Because they are radically different beasts. I have and do.

              For instance I own a service business. I have residential clients and commercial clients. The numbers don't lie the commercial clients are FAR more valuable to the business than the residential clients. Even though 80% of the new business we get is residential, 80% of the revenue is from the commercial. Pareto principal at it's best all in one business.

              I own businesses with average transactions of less than $50 and others where average transaction is greater than $10k. And all day every day I'd trade the $50 business for the $10k. All DAY!

              I get that you have anecdotal evidence to support your claim. I just happen to find the reality of business to support the higher transaction cost businesses over the lower ones. You rarely find cardiologists whose businesses fail, versus house painters who often fail.

              Specifically as far as consulting to "offline clients" goes, it's much easier to manage 20 clients than it is to manage 200. And if you can find a way to make just as much off the 20 as the 200 then you're golden.

              The real money is when you specifically target your EXACT market. I like business owners with multiple locations that own them locally. I prefer to develop a relationship with one decision maker that could bring a large stream of revenue without having to build new relationships. While John prefers the scattershot approach of client acquisition, I'm much more into the Chet Holmes Dream 100 laser targeted client acquisition. I just don't think it's that much more work to get 20 good value customers over trying to acquire 2,000.

              It's just my opinion, and according to my wife I'm usually wrong.

              Marcos
              Ps. Yes I have owned and operated both kinds of businesses. I teach 'small monthly" for several reasons... the main one is this: "I want to help people who dont necessarily have the skills to close a 50k deal like you and I do".

              Does that makes sense? It falls under basic caring and giving... you would have to understand those basic fundamentals to get it.

              PS I edited this post after re reading some of your material. At first I was a bit offended for some "imagined slight" as Paul often refers to... then I went and read some of your valuable contributions and I know that your intentions are not to harm... in fact I gained some respect for you.

              Sorry for the initial distasteful response.

              So, anyway, there are alot of ways to skin a cat.
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              • Profile picture of the author MRomeo09
                Sorry John, just read your post. No worries my friend. I'm sure your heart is in the right place. I just don't really post that often. I'll go months between posts, and most posts don't catch my fancy. I've ruffled other peoples feathers over time. But I've been here for 8 years, just lost my old login sadly.

                We can agree to disagree. I like low volume, high transaction cost businesses. But can definitely see the value in high volume, low transaction cost businesses. But the best of all possible worlds is high volume, high transaction cost businesses.

                PM me I'll give you some examples of some killer deals I'm working on. I'm no AP though, I don't like to brag.

                Marcos
                Signature
                We do not have to become heroes overnight. Just a step at a time, meeting each thing that comes up ... discovering we have the strength to stare it down. - Eleanor Roosevelt

                Your opinion of yourself becomes your reality. If you have all these doubts, then no one will believe in you and everything will go wrong. If you think the opposite, the opposite will happen. It’s that simple.-Curtis Jackson- 50 Cent
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                • Profile picture of the author Dr Dan
                  Originally Posted by MRomeo09 View Post

                  I'm no AP though, I don't like to brag.

                  Marcos
                  That funny because I read a post on another thread and was wondering if you were AP trying to resurface under a new account.
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                  • Profile picture of the author MRomeo09
                    Originally Posted by rockstarinlife View Post

                    That funny because I read a post on another thread and was wondering if you were AP trying to resurface under a new account.
                    ROFL, that's kind of funny. Should I take that as a compliment or an insult? Actually if you go back through my post history, you'll see I called AP out within his first few weeks of being here. I saw a shyster from a mile away.

                    http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...ell-_____.html

                    So let me get this straight AP, you have this long resume of experience which for some reason you feel you have every right to spout out in this thread. Questionable honestly. And you've "thought about buying websites", and "have a friend who makes millions doing this"?

                    I don't know bud, you kick off my BS sensors. Thinking about buying websites and knowing people who buy them are completely different things than actually BUYING WEBSITES.
                    Hard to derail those trains when they get rolling. My one and only WSO in 5 years made me enough for dinner at Emeril's in NOLA which was my purpose.

                    I'll probably get wrapped up in other stuff and won't come back here for months(seems to be my pattern).

                    Marcos
                    Signature
                    We do not have to become heroes overnight. Just a step at a time, meeting each thing that comes up ... discovering we have the strength to stare it down. - Eleanor Roosevelt

                    Your opinion of yourself becomes your reality. If you have all these doubts, then no one will believe in you and everything will go wrong. If you think the opposite, the opposite will happen. It’s that simple.-Curtis Jackson- 50 Cent
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                    • Profile picture of the author Dr Dan
                      Originally Posted by MRomeo09 View Post

                      ROFL, that's kind of funny. Should I take that as a compliment or an insult? Actually if you go back through my post history, you'll see I called AP out within his first few weeks of being here. I saw a shyster from a mile away.

                      Hard to derail those trains when they get rolling. My one and only WSO in 5 years made me enough for dinner at Emeril's in NOLA which was my purpose.

                      I'll probably get wrapped up in other stuff and won't come back here for months(seems to be my pattern).

                      Marcos
                      Thats funny. Yea, it wasnt meant to be either insult nor compliment. Just read one of your useful posts and thought to myself "Wonder if AP will try to come back as someone else".

                      Thanks for contributing with good stuff and helping use offline newbies. Everyone here and at Dexx's offlinegoldforum.com helped me take my biz full-time now.

                      Now I have a few clients paying me anywhere from $400 to $2,000.
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                    • Profile picture of the author MRomeo09
                      Here's an E-Myth idea for you John. I like systems too.

                      You should look into PPC. There are interesting possibilities for PPC if you approach it right. Many people talk about PPC like they are providing a service, what if you could package it in a way like it was a product? Then the metrics and the way business is handled can be completely different.

                      It's called licensing. I've been following Bob Serling's licensing material for 10 years. Here's a video where they talk about it.

                      Million Dollar Licensing - Bob Serling & Buck Rizvi

                      I do this but without the risk of being a braggart lets talk about it in theoretics. I've said for years I can't stand the idea of doing work and only being paid once, I transform businesses I deserve to be rewarded for it.

                      Let's take for instance Plumbers. You always have a choice who you want to work with in any industry. You can work with the bottom 20% or the top 20%, I personally like to work with the Top 20% of any industry. The top 20% of plumbers are $1M to $1.5M gross companies with 5-10 trucks on the road. Make sense so far?

                      Now if I were to go in and sell PPC services. I would normally get anywhere from $1,000-3,000 as setup, and between $500-1,500 in monthly fees. But the difference is I'm not selling a brand new product, I'm selling a tested and verified working model of business generation. It's a little bit positioning. Look at how I position it.

                      What if I come in with a ready to go, turnkey box? The website that converts, the landing pages that convert, opt-in boxes, free reports, videos, video spokespersons, keyword lists, optimized keyword groupings. And I come in with a track record where I take a Million Dollar business and generate an extra $500,000 in business every year. Now I might be able to get $30,000 to $50,000 out of that business for my "system in a box", and up to $100,000 if I take care of click costs.

                      Do you see how that works?

                      Why would that customer ever leave you? If you're really taking $30,000 and turning it into $500,000 do you think they would ever leave? You're a freaking modern day alchemist. They just don't, and the customer service issues are super simple. In my case I have a database setup where they can view all of the calls that have come in over the last year as well as actual recordings of the calls that come in. It's all automated so they don't really have to call us if they don't want to. And the last thing they want to do is turn off that stream of customers and give that up to their biggest competitors.

                      That's why when I approach a client, I'm very conscious of getting really deep into their business. I understand them, I understand their business. I GET THEM. That's also why I don't take no for an answer, there are only a handful of million dollar plumbers that can write me $100,000 checks if I produce. Make sense? It's a different model than John's model of calling 1,000 plumbers to get 10 of them. I'm identifying the best 10 and GETTING them. To put it another way, I only date supermodels. It's harder to get them, but ohhhhh the rewards.

                      This fits the E-Myth model, once you have this "system in a box" setup. You can hire a $12 an hour person to implement. It's not like it's that difficult once you've paid the copywriters to produce kick ass landing pages, and you've gotten your PPC expert(you?) to find the exact keyword searches that convert. Expensive to do right the first time, but that is all coming out of the first client who hires you.

                      And to address John's last problem of the $2,000 a month client leaving you. Keep in mind I control all assets. All I have to do is some minor edits on the website, and get the tracking phone number to point to a new client. If my client leaves me, I just go down the street to his other competitor and I show them all my metrics for the last year. That sale is even easier than the first sale in a market. Because if Bob down the road knows he can steal 30% of Plumber John's business, cheaply and legally he's all over that. Maybe not that 20 minutes that John takes but still not all that difficult to handle.

                      The basis of the conversation is a heck of a lot different than what you would normally have with someone. They get 10 calls a day talking about how they can get on first page of Google, they are numb to it. But if you go in with a proven system in a box, turnkey where they can take $50k and turn it into $500k with absolutely no risk, now you're talking. The conversation is different. It's a system, just a lot higher paying one than is normally talked about. I'm the one in power, not them. If I don't like them, I'll just go down the street. And where most people are worried about how to get people to get someone to call them from an email, I'm trying to think up new and innovative ways to spend more money to get my ideal client.

                      If you have a true "system in a box" what limits you? How many times can you sell that system?

                      I just don't think it takes that much work to think up a model where you can get paid large checks. No offense to my new friend John.

                      Marcos

                      P.S.- I'll be out of town for at least a week, so I may not respond to this post or any other. Wife likes it when I am engaged with the family.
                      Signature
                      We do not have to become heroes overnight. Just a step at a time, meeting each thing that comes up ... discovering we have the strength to stare it down. - Eleanor Roosevelt

                      Your opinion of yourself becomes your reality. If you have all these doubts, then no one will believe in you and everything will go wrong. If you think the opposite, the opposite will happen. It’s that simple.-Curtis Jackson- 50 Cent
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        • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
          BAM you just....

          OWNED THIS THREAD!

          Originally Posted by MRomeo09 View Post

          I don't get out of bed for less than $2,000, PERIOD. In fact I don't sign clients any longer that don't sign up for less than $10k a year. The deal I signed this morning was one client, was more than my last salary as a senior developer in the "real world". But this is also a $50 Million dollar business with almost 20 locations. Who's the one who is taking advantage of who?

          And for all the silly talk about let me do Google Maps for $200, and struggling to get clients. I'm turning away clients wanting to give me $2,000 for the same service you can't sell for $200. You have to understand in the business world how things work.

          Rent = $1-5k a month
          Utilities = $1-2k a month
          Yellow Pages = $500-5k a month
          Insurance = $1k a month

          If you approach that business owner promising prominent placement on Google Maps for $200, you'll find they have a hard time believing you. It doesn't jive with what they are used to paying. You don't have any credibility, you sound like all the other spam emails they get daily.

          I'm good at what I do, and I value what I do. And I do what I say I'm going to do. I produce 10-20x the results of what I charge. And that's in the first year, then after that it's all profit on their end. I have a client who ended up on the talk show circuit, and went from a three person office to over 15 people due to paying me roughly $5k back in 2005. I have a testimonials where he calls me his $5 Million dollar man, and you're telling me that I'm ripping him off charging him $5k? Who ripped off whom?

          To be honest someone who believes 1,000 clients at $20/mo is better than 10 clients at $2k a month doesn't get it.

          How many business owners have you sat face to face and belly to belly with? I'm not talking, tried to sell anything to them, just find out about their business and what makes it run. Do you know how high their bills are? Are you used to the size of the checks that they write? Compare what you do to what the yellow pages charges, and then take a real hard look at what you're charging. It's not uncommon for a small business to have $100k flow through accounts monthly. The numbers are greater than you might think.

          The real truth is I can't charge enough to get compensated honestly for the work that I do. I tell them that within the first minute we meet too. I come right out and tell them if you could write me a check right now for $200k at the end of this meeting, it would still be a bargain for you. What type of frame do you set with that kind of statement? I walk away with big checks, and they feel like they got a deal.

          That's why I'm moving to lead gen and consulting agreements for percentages of gross. If I can get 8-20% of gross above baseline, that's compelling to me. But paying me $250 to do Google Maps where they will make $250k next year is an insult.

          Marcos
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  • Profile picture of the author rushindo
    My prices for offline clients are based on how much money I can make for the client, PERIOD!

    They don't need to know what I'm doing unless it somehow affects their reputation. If I believe I can help a client make an extra $20,000 per month, my price will be based on that and nothing else.

    Brandon
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    • Profile picture of the author sal64
      Originally Posted by rushindo View Post

      My prices for offline clients are based on how much money I can make for the client, PERIOD!

      They don't need to know what I'm doing unless it somehow affects their reputation. If I believe I can help a client make an extra $20,000 per month, my price will be based on that and nothing else.

      Brandon
      Nail - Hammer - Head!
      Signature
      Internet Marketing: 20% Internet - 80% Marketing!
      You Won't See The Light Until You Open Your Eyes.
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  • Profile picture of the author Quentin
    We break all our offerings up into modules.

    This makes it very easy for offline customers to see what is happening and budget their marketing.

    So we start off with a base site and then add on modules like posting, google places, powerpoints, adwords, seo etc.

    Every time a customer asks for something new we create a new module and work out a pricing structure for it.

    This has worked great and allows us to email existing customers when we add a new module.

    Quentin
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      This is the idea. It starts with a basic site and grows exponentially.

      Originally Posted by Quentin View Post

      We break all our offerings up into modules.

      This makes it very easy for offline customers to see what is happening and budget their marketing.

      So we start off with a base site and then add on modules like posting, google places, powerpoints, adwords, seo etc.

      Every time a customer asks for something new we create a new module and work out a pricing structure for it.

      This has worked great and allows us to email existing customers when we add a new module.

      Quentin
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  • Profile picture of the author Fernando Veloso
    Discuss pricing plans is difficult cause your hour rate is different from mine, your expertise is different from mine, your skills are different from mine, and so on.

    Clients pay NOT ONLY the work they get delivered BUT ALSO our expertise.

    That's why you pay more to see a specialized doctor then a all around.

    Question is: whats your expertise? Answer that and then get paid what you know is a common fee from experts to deliver that service.

    Fernando
    Signature
    People make good money selling to the rich. But the rich got rich selling to the masses.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dexx
    Even my own consulting business email gets DAILY emails from people in India and the Philippines offering to do exactly what you are mentioning for pennies a day... (I can only imagine how many annoying emails/phone calls that local business owners must be getting)

    What you are opening yourself up to is a "me too" business structure which will be price-shopped or ignored.

    Be a provider of solutions, not of pre-made packages...

    That, or keep doing what you are planning to do, and then watch as better positioned marketers fly-in and take all your clients away...your choice...

    ~Dexx
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Dexx, I admire alot of your thoughts, and respect you. I even agree with your basic premise... theoretically it sounds good... but people buy packages still... packages that perform exactly as the salesmen said they would, exactly as the buyers expected... an no one is taking their business...

      There really is too much market for me to ever worry about anyone causing any stir in my business waters...

      However the difference is that when you lose a $2500 a month client it hurts you... but if I lose a twenty dollar one, it can be replaced in 10 minutes easily, and I can get 1000 20 dollar per month clients faster than you can get 100 $200 per month ones, and regularly replace them if needed with ease. Losing one doesnt rock my business. Because it doesnt depend on any client. It depends on a system.

      Ultimately it comes down to constantly running employment ads and hiring sales people. (Thats the secret).

      It doesnt take a rocket scientist to put up a google map and identify some good local keywords to capitalize on... that comes with the "package"... and 8 dollar per hour data entry people put up the listing... by following precise instructions... which over the course of a week become second natrure to them. There's your real life seo training.

      I know a guy who runs a 10 million dollar per year web development business, and has for 12 years now successfully... and there isnt a web designer in the place... just data entry people who have been instructed with "systems".

      It doesnt even depend on 'talent", because telemarketers can be systematically replaced as well... and when they sit in that booth the numbers are gonna work the same as they did for the last guy who sat there. "Systems".

      I dont need a college degree to figure out how to get a google listing up... and guess what? It's gonna work for me as good as if You or anyone else high priced did it themselves?

      Systems.

      People need to read emyth around here.




      Originally Posted by Dexx View Post

      Even my own consulting business email gets DAILY emails from people in India and the Philippines offering to do exactly what you are mentioning for pennies a day... (I can only imagine how many annoying emails/phone calls that local business owners must be getting)

      What you are opening yourself up to is a "me too" business structure which will be price-shopped or ignored.

      Be a provider of solutions, not of pre-made packages...

      That, or keep doing what you are planning to do, and then watch as better positioned marketers fly-in and take all your clients away...your choice...

      ~Dexx
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    • Profile picture of the author Peter Olson
      Originally Posted by Dexx View Post

      Even my own consulting business email gets DAILY emails from people in India and the Philippines offering to do exactly what you are mentioning for pennies a day... (I can only imagine how many annoying emails/phone calls that local business owners must be getting)
      Yeah but at the same time, almost every biz owner I've talked to would rather deal locally and meet w/ someone face to face. I've heard this several times: "well we were looking at so-in-so, but your local right? We really would rather go local so we can hunt you down if you don't come threw" ha.
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  • Profile picture of the author sdentrepreneur
    I charge $2,500 Per Month with 6 Month Contracts for list below. I charge less if clients don't want Google Adwords. Hope this helps.

    My Business Marketing

    * Connect your Website with My Business Marketing Platform
    * Custom Graphics for all Social Media Sites
    * Set Up Accounts For Top 20+ Social Media and Feeds
    * Branding Your Business as Leader in Industry
    * Create Custom Blog Page
    * Extensive Keyword Research To Pin Point Target Marke
    * Set Up 10+ Google Adwords Campaigns or Adgroups
    * Add 1,000 Keywords
    * Dominate Google Front Page PPC in 24 hours
    * Client Pays Google Directly For PPC Fees
    * Twitter Account Setup – Pictures, Backgrounds and Bio
    * LinkedIn Account Setup - Pictures and Bio
    * Facebook Account Setup – Pictures and Bio
    * YouTube Account Set Up - Pictures, Backgrounds and Bio
    * MySpace Account Set Up - Pictures, Backgrounds and Bio
    * Set Up System to get 3,000 Friends/Followers/Connections in 90 Days
    * Create Video or Slide Show to Promote Business
    * Use Video on all your Social Neworks
    * Keyword Research on Where to Place Ads on Google/Yahoo/MSN
    * Get Video on Google/Yahoo/MSN Front Page with 3 Different Keywords per month
    * Set Up Article Submission Service To 30 Different Social Bookmarking Sites
    * Custom E-Mail Marketing Campaigns
    * Complete Auto Responder System Set Up
    * Training on E-Mail Marketing and Social Media Training
    * Get Your Business On First Page of Google Maps
    * Create Internet Based Sales Funnel For Lead Generation and List Building
    * Two Hours Of Personal Coaching with JMH Marketing Group or Prestige Insight

    CONTACT US BELOW FOR CUSTOM PRICING TO FIT YOUR BUDGET

    San Diego Internet Marketing | Business Marketing Online - My Business Marketing
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    Learn to become Digital, Internet and Social Media Marketing Consultant to Business Owners
    Click here to learn more - Internet, Digital and Social Media Marketing Training Course

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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by sdentrepreneur View Post

      I charge $2,500 Per Month with 6 Month Contracts for list below. I charge less if clients don't want Google Adwords. Hope this helps.

      My Business Marketing

      * Connect your Website with My Business Marketing Platform
      * Custom Graphics for all Social Media Sites
      * Set Up Accounts For Top 20+ Social Media and Feeds
      * Branding Your Business as Leader in Industry
      * Create Custom Blog Page
      * Extensive Keyword Research To Pin Point Target Marke
      * Set Up 10+ Google Adwords Campaigns or Adgroups
      * Add 1,000 Keywords
      * Dominate Google Front Page PPC in 24 hours
      * Client Pays Google Directly For PPC Fees
      * Twitter Account Setup – Pictures, Backgrounds and Bio
      * LinkedIn Account Setup - Pictures and Bio
      * Facebook Account Setup – Pictures and Bio
      * YouTube Account Set Up - Pictures, Backgrounds and Bio
      * MySpace Account Set Up - Pictures, Backgrounds and Bio
      * Set Up System to get 3,000 Friends/Followers/Connections in 90 Days
      * Create Video or Slide Show to Promote Business
      * Use Video on all your Social Neworks
      * Keyword Research on Where to Place Ads on Google/Yahoo/MSN
      * Get Video on Google/Yahoo/MSN Front Page with 3 Different Keywords per month
      * Set Up Article Submission Service To 30 Different Social Bookmarking Sites
      * Custom E-Mail Marketing Campaigns
      * Complete Auto Responder System Set Up
      * Training on E-Mail Marketing and Social Media Training
      * Get Your Business On First Page of Google Maps
      * Create Internet Based Sales Funnel For Lead Generation and List Building
      * Two Hours Of Personal Coaching with JMH Marketing Group or Prestige Insight

      CONTACT US BELOW FOR CUSTOM PRICING TO FIT YOUR BUDGET

      San Diego Internet Marketing | Business Marketing Online - My Business Marketing
      Wow now that is a clear concise offer! Cool. What a valuable contribution! Not that it needs validation.

      If you can do all that and charge 5k per month thats awesome.

      I am more referring to having a hands free business model, where you perform a quick service, not elaborate, and one that doesnt require alot of management... such as designing a website... and you get paid a small amount for years to come.

      No lie: I dont meant to wear this out but JACER (wf member) has made 20k in 2 weeks time doing this what I am describing.

      I am talking about something simple that can be systematized and isn't dependent on having talented people.

      This model is based on having a large, relatively quiet customer base (not alot of CS)... and you do HUGE volume.

      YOURS is a really nice model too! BLOW em away with features and offer a comprehensive marketing package at a high price. Lots of CS though Im sure.

      I am trying to get away from as much account management responsibilities as possible personally, and just provide a service that does what it says and performs a simple function that doesn't require management.

      This is impressive.


      I gotta get outta here.
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    • Profile picture of the author rhinocl
      How can you possibly target 1000 keywords per month at that price?
      Originally Posted by sdentrepreneur View Post

      I charge $2,500 Per Month with 6 Month Contracts for list below. I charge less if clients don't want Google Adwords. Hope this helps.

      {snip}
      * Add 1,000 Keywords
      {/snip}

      CONTACT US BELOW FOR CUSTOM PRICING TO FIT YOUR BUDGET

      San Diego Internet Marketing | Business Marketing Online - My Business Marketing
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      • Profile picture of the author Scott Voss
        I think he is talking about associating the Adwords campaigns to 1,000 keywords, not getting 1,000 keyword targeted pages.

        Either that, or he a basement full of SEO experts chained up against their will in his basement.

        Originally Posted by rhinocl View Post

        How can you possibly target 1000 keywords per month at that price?
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      • Profile picture of the author sdentrepreneur
        Originally Posted by rhinocl View Post

        How can you possibly target 1000 keywords per month at that price?

        It's 1,000 Keywords total, I normally cover that over a 3 to 6 month contract. I try not to work too hard...
        Signature

        Learn to become Digital, Internet and Social Media Marketing Consultant to Business Owners
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        • Profile picture of the author netkid
          It seems like a trend in the WF regarding what to charge for offline consulting.

          We have two distinct ways to go:

          1) the high end charges for the $5 million + clients

          2) the low to medium charges for small businesses and other businesses that make under $1 million

          IMHO I don't think there is a right or wrong way to charge. It depends on the mindset of the offline consultant and the clientele that is being pitched.

          Quite simple: either go after less of the high dollar clients, or go after high volume lower priced clients. There isn't a right or wrong.....just preference. There is a wide open market out there to serve as a lot of the posters are mentioning, AND doing.

          Main thing is you get off your butt and produce
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    • Profile picture of the author Jill Carpenter
      Originally Posted by sdentrepreneur View Post

      I charge $2,500 Per Month with 6 Month Contracts for list below. I charge less if clients don't want Google Adwords. Hope this helps.

      My Business Marketing

      * Connect your Website with My Business Marketing Platform
      * Custom Graphics for all Social Media Sites
      * Set Up Accounts For Top 20+ Social Media and Feeds
      * Branding Your Business as Leader in Industry
      * Create Custom Blog Page
      * Extensive Keyword Research To Pin Point Target Marke
      * Set Up 10+ Google Adwords Campaigns or Adgroups
      * Add 1,000 Keywords
      * Dominate Google Front Page PPC in 24 hours
      * Client Pays Google Directly For PPC Fees
      * Twitter Account Setup - Pictures, Backgrounds and Bio
      * LinkedIn Account Setup - Pictures and Bio
      * Facebook Account Setup - Pictures and Bio
      * YouTube Account Set Up - Pictures, Backgrounds and Bio
      * MySpace Account Set Up - Pictures, Backgrounds and Bio
      * Set Up System to get 3,000 Friends/Followers/Connections in 90 Days
      * Create Video or Slide Show to Promote Business
      * Use Video on all your Social Neworks
      * Keyword Research on Where to Place Ads on Google/Yahoo/MSN
      * Get Video on Google/Yahoo/MSN Front Page with 3 Different Keywords per month
      * Set Up Article Submission Service To 30 Different Social Bookmarking Sites
      * Custom E-Mail Marketing Campaigns
      * Complete Auto Responder System Set Up
      * Training on E-Mail Marketing and Social Media Training
      * Get Your Business On First Page of Google Maps
      * Create Internet Based Sales Funnel For Lead Generation and List Building
      * Two Hours Of Personal Coaching with JMH Marketing Group or Prestige Insight

      CONTACT US BELOW FOR CUSTOM PRICING TO FIT YOUR BUDGET

      San Diego Internet Marketing | Business Marketing Online - My Business Marketing
      I like the timeline

      I like the ongoing true support - teaching how to man the ship

      I think this package is very fair for the price. Well done.
      Signature

      "May I have ten thousand marbles, please?"

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  • Profile picture of the author b.super13
    Awesome everyone, I have some really good ideas from this. Thanks so much

    John - when you say getting 1000 customers at $20 a month, what kind of service are you talking about? Hosting? Or something like you have 1000 customers paying you $20 a month to promote their business?

    Thanks again
    Bryan
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    @ Bryan,

    I will show you this and see if you can put the peices together, otherwise, long story. This below link is to a page that showcases "famous daves"... within a site called "citysearch.com"

    City search offers a national directory for small businesses. Now I dont know what they charge now but back when I was their competition a few years ago, city search reps were charging people 20 bucks per month for a full page listing like this.

    So Dave pays twenty bucks per month for the page you are about to view, he more than likely has been for 5 or ten years now...

    City Search has around a MILLION customers all over America all paying 20 bucks per month for pages like this, and they are just one of 100's of companies that do the same on a large scale.

    Famous Dave's - Kansas City, KS, 66111 - Citysearch

    There is a classic example.

    Now when it comes to "Yeah the real seo people are gonna steal your business..." . A person who charges 500 a month has about a 1 in one hundred chance of closing a guy who is a "20 bucks per month" kinda payer.

    If you can get that one in 100 customer of mine to give up his loyalty and pay you $500 per month... hey, Good job. Go for it.

    I still have 999 and that one you got will be naturally replaced every 20 minutes of the business day, by a telemarketer.

    Heck if your customer stops paying me the twenty bucks... Im not even gonna bother to take their listing down... they can have it and continue to benefit. It's really no prob. It took all of five minutes to put up.

    That's a systems dependent business model.

    Its not as shaky as a "client" or "talent" dependent one.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Marcos, I bow my hat to you. You are the man. I learned alot from the above. I guess I was presumptuous about people who charge alot and their business models, and the systems that go along with it.

    Once Jimi Hendrix was asked "whats it like to be the greatest guitarist in rock n roll".... and he said "I don't know, you have to ask Phil Keagy".

    Honestly what you are laying out here is some of the best offline material I have ever seen, by merit of your words alone I can henceforth say say "I dont know, you'll have to ask Marcos".

    Thanks for all the great, enlightening info. You are the real deal man, and you lay it out passionately too. Comes from the heart. I appreciate you.

    That being stated: What are your thoughts about the citysearch.com business model?
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    • Profile picture of the author MRomeo09
      Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

      Marcos, I bow my hat to you. You are the man. I learned alot from the above. I guess I was presumptuous about people who charge alot and their business models, and the systems that go along with it.

      Once Jimi Hendrix was asked "whats it like to be the greatest guitarist in rock n roll".... and he said "I don't know, you have to ask Phil Keagy".

      Honestly what you are laying out here is some of the best offline material I have ever seen, by merit of your words alone I can henceforth say say "I dont know, you'll have to ask Marcos".

      Thanks for all the great, enlightening info. You are the real deal man, and you lay it out passionately too. Comes from the heart. I appreciate you.

      That being stated: What are your thoughts about the citysearch.com business model?


      Well thanks, I wasn't trying to be "right" was just trying to help.

      As far as the citysearch.com model. I was discussing it just the other day on another offline board. It can definitely work, as long as you have upsells and other methods to make some money with it. What else can you do to monetize it?

      While you can probably get people to pay $20 a month to be on it. What could you sell a premium listing for? Could you get $50 a month, and maybe have a picture or logo? What about for the top listing for a specific keyword phrase, how much would that listing go for? What about a whole video, audio, full page listing, what would that be worth? I'm more into finding out ways to monetize it for greater than a flat rate $20/mo thing.

      I'm also more interested in niche type websites. Like not so much citysearch.com, but what if I own BestMiamiDoctors.com, and I SEO'd it so it shows up in Top 3 of Plastic Surgeons and all the other doc searches in Miami? What could I charge the Top doc on that page, and #2 and #3? And how many unique and different ways could I monetize the page?

      I've seen examples of sites like these that are million dollar producers for one single website.

      Ok, I really do have to get going. Getting up at 4am tomorrow for a family trip.

      HTH,

      Marcos
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      • Profile picture of the author John Durham
        Originally Posted by MRomeo09 View Post



        Well thanks, I wasn't trying to be "right" was just trying to help.

        As far as the citysearch.com model. I was discussing it just the other day on another offline board. It can definitely work, as long as you have upsells and other methods to make some money with it. What else can you do to monetize it?

        While you can probably get people to pay $20 a month to be on it. What could you sell a premium listing for? Could you get $50 a month, and maybe have a picture or logo? What about for the top listing for a specific keyword phrase, how much would that listing go for? What about a whole video, audio, full page listing, what would that be worth? I'm more into finding out ways to monetize it for greater than a flat rate $20/mo thing.

        I'm also more interested in niche type websites. Like not so much citysearch.com, but what if I own BestMiamiDoctors.com, and I SEO'd it so it shows up in Top 3 of Plastic Surgeons and all the other doc searches in Miami? What could I charge the Top doc on that page, and #2 and #3? And how many unique and different ways could I monetize the page?

        I've seen examples of sites like these that are million dollar producers for one single website.

        Ok, I really do have to get going. Getting up at 4am tomorrow for a family trip.

        HTH,

        Marcos
        Yeah, to me its the most beautiful offline model because if you can get a half million businesses to pay you like city search at 20 bucks a month, then anything you up sell them is just gravy.

        Its very low maintenance because the sites ranking (BestMiamiDoctors.com) does all the work. As long as you keep your own site ranking the your customers are happy... because they buy it on that merit.

        Heck if you could just get 2,000 people to pay you 20 bucks per month, that would be beautiful. Then you just keep a couple of people onstaff, a data entry person and a single telemarketer to manage retention.

        IE;

        Lets say at 2000 customers you experience a fallout of 20 cancellations per month: 1 part time telemarketer can replace those 20 easily each month, and keep you over 2000.

        Beautiful. I love this model.
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      • Profile picture of the author netkid
        @Bryan,

        One most important thing, based on your original post, I surely hope you either know how to do these services for the client or know how to outsource them and work out your profit margins.

        All of us have been talking about specific services but you need to have a feel for what the client needs and not "pigeon holing" a program for them.

        To "offline consult" is to ask questions and find out in your "expert opinion" what they need. Don't package anything until you find out their needs. They could care less about the features, they want the benefits = Get me Sales!
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  • Profile picture of the author RichardHK
    Yep, Marcos is the man to follow - even if his wife doesn't think so! The main difference between a Marcos approach and the IM majority here is being aware of business value. Those above talking hourly rates are stuck in an unhealthy mindset and unlikely to be wealthy. Day job mentality. And like Marcos noted, talking $250 for a job or whatever should be seen as a joke and a waste of your time. Be professional.

    Focus on what value you bring to organisation/client, and work out a fee based on that. If the business is saving thousands of dollars from dropping old-school yellow pages and such, and is making much more from your work, then YOU are worth lots. Charge a fee based on a percentage of what $$ value you can jointly calculate and deliver. It will NOT be $250, and if it is, move on. And talk to the person who pays you, not the accounts, HR, or whoever. Establish your value and relationship with the real buyer who will then keep the others away.
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  • Profile picture of the author Vincenzo Oliva
    I am in this business and the best advice I can give is not to confuse your clients with your packages. A confused customer does not take action. Offer your packages not based on SEO, backlinks, web 2.0, all that talk is foreign. Offer your packages based on RESULTS, Page 1, more traffic, more sales, more conversions, more leads. Offer in time format..3 months of Maximum exposure $2997, 6 months-$4997 12 months $8997
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    • Profile picture of the author Scott Voss
      Vincenzo,
      This is not a comment about what you are doing, but more so of what I am not. So, whatever works for you, run with it brother.

      I rarely find my self offering Page 1. It just has too many factors that I cannot control. The same thing goes for traffic, but we can have more control on sales/visit and conversions. So, I guess I could be persuaded to go that route.

      But I am 100% in agreement with you about not confusing the client by having confusing packages. Spot on.

      I am interested in your pricing model you described. I haven't considered, much less tested 3, 6 and 12 month packages. At roughly $1000, $830 and $750 per month respectively, which package do you sell more of?

      Do you get a ton of conversions of folks who buy the 3 months and then at the end get the 12 month package.

      Very interesting. Thanks for sharing!

      -Scott Voss

      Originally Posted by Vincenzo Oliva View Post

      I am in this business and the best advice I can give is not to confuse your clients with your packages. A confused customer does not take action. Offer your packages not based on SEO, backlinks, web 2.0, all that talk is foreign. Offer your packages based on RESULTS, Page 1, more traffic, more sales, more conversions, more leads. Offer in time format..3 months of Maximum exposure $2997, 6 months-$4997 12 months $8997
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  • Profile picture of the author glycodoc
    Wow just spent the last 30 minutes reading all the post here - some really good discussions. Just FYI - I see what the client is spending now on advertising and what they are getting in return and then show them how I can help them make more for the same as they are spending now.
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  • Profile picture of the author paulie888
    I think many people get too tripped up on the pricing, what you really have to keep in mind here is that there will inevitably be a difference in the price you charge according to the value that you bring to a business - you can perform the very same SEO tasks for a plastic surgeon and a pizza shop, and chances are the plastic surgeon will pay much more for the very same thing, as your work is worth much more to him in terms of the monetary value the resulting increase in business brings him.

    Some of you may not think this is fair, but at the end of the day what you should really be concerned with is whether your services are providing him a positive ROI, and this is all that matters to a business!
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    • Profile picture of the author Vincenzo Oliva
      I just spat some numbers out but true, customers want to save money especially in these times. If you discount longer commitments you both win.
      I don't know what amount of work that you're offering your clients but often a 3 month trial is a good "teaser" as long as you deliver results they'll be ready for a longer commitment. Like if you offer a 6 month package for $5997 you can offer a 12 month for $9997 saving them $1k and getting you a longer committment. I can understand if you want to break it down in months as it represents a smaller figure but you should require a minimum 6-12 month contract. Like 6 months at $1497 a month or 12 month at $1297 saving them $2400 a year.
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  • Profile picture of the author Justin.Zimmerman
    I believe it was Dexx?(Sorry if that's wrong) who had mentioned to price your services so they do not cost anything to your clients.

    Find out the life time value of each customer for your respective business you will be working with. Like many I recommend the top businesses in their industry especially if you can find a high margin service industry. They will just have more money to spend.

    Then take what you know or what you are comfortable outsourcing. For some that may just be on page seo with backlinking. Maybe more advanced such as auto-responder with copy write of the emails, or full on building a sales funnel with lead generation etc...

    If you only can do something simple like backlinking then how many customers can you get them? A simple service maybe just 1 or 2 new customers a month, where a more advanced service could do 5, 10, hundreds even.

    Now you know what you are offering so now you price it so it's free to them. If 1 customer is worth $500 and you can get them 2 a month then price your services $500-$600. The business owner still makes profit....just an example.

    If your client has a really big budget and you can only offer something simple then JV with someone to offer more. They pay you a $1000 you do on page seo with backlinking and your JV might do map listing with video marketing and press releases.

    If you get a client who is cheap or just can not afford much then try to find services that are helpful but still will allow you to make a profit. If you can not then fire them or refer them to someone who may be able to help with a referral fee.

    You only want to offer services that you can perform or outsource(preferably) and still make a profit and still have FREE time.

    If you really just want to make $500 a month from each client then find a niche where the average value of the customer is $500 where your services can only bring 2 a month.

    I suggest that because every client is different. I may charge a client $500 for one thing and another client $1500 for the exact same thing.

    I really hoped that made sense and I wasn't rambling too much. I got put in the dog house last night and spent the whole night TRYING to sleep on the couch and I'm exhausted!
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  • Profile picture of the author reilly3000
    Guys. I'm loving this thread. Let's keep it going.

    I have a few thoughts about low fee, large client base businesses:
    A. They take great systems. Systems are expensive to conceive and expensive to build.

    B. Think about customer acquisition costs. One can't just snap their fingers to get 2000 clients. What if it costs you $45 to get a $20/month client.

    C. Think about churn. ReachLocal, Yodle, and YP.com have churn rates of near 100% in 9 months WITH an offline salesforce(not cheap re:customer acquisition costs). Those companies employee dozens of MBAs that think about this stuff all day long.

    D. Think about competition. All of the sudden, instead of competing with the handful of other SEO guys, you're against IAC, the 8th largest network of sites on the planet. And dozens of other F500 publicly traded 800 ton godzillas...

    E. Think about customer service. This is what gets you in trouble. People like me who just think about this stuff all day long and read emyth and the 4 hour work week think that the turnkey web business is just moments away... It's not. As you grow in customers, you need to have great service systems AND people in place. It may be 1 customer service person per 500 clients, but there is a ratio that needs to be established. Plus you need a place to house them, somebody to manage them, somebody to hire and fire them, somebody to run the systems they use, somebody to train them, and if that is you, who is making sales?

    I'm not trying to be a downer here, I am just trying to illuminate why low fee, high volume businesses are difficult to sustain and grow. Highly rewarding, mind you, but highly difficult.

    Now, somebody teach me how to do it right... I eventually want that. Right now I've got over 60 offline clients and have made most mistakes in the book, but it has been feeding my family for almost 2 years. The product type of biz appeals to me, but frankly I really enjoy deep relationships with my clients and the referrals I get. Sometimes, though... sometimes they can just get on my nerves like nothing else!! I suppose that's life. Low fee clients are even more dramatic sometimes than high fee ones anyways.

    My $.02!!
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  • Profile picture of the author jsherloc
    reilly,

    Aweome post, and so very very true.

    After about 1 yr plus of going after every client I could get, I quickly realized I'd be less stressed out working 30 hours a week stocking shelves at the grocery store.

    You get so excited at the potential of grabbing up hundreds of clients, and even follow through for awhile like I did, but then you realize you have just created the type of job you're working night and day to avoid. It hurts. I got myself centered and have cut ties with a few "unfortunates", and now I'm trying to shift focus on the more "high-end" businesses. I feel like it will be a lot less stressful working with less than 30 clients or so overtime, rather than trying to "take over the world" like I had initially wanted to do. It all comes down to ROI...

    - Jim
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  • Profile picture of the author tryinhere
    An interesting post / I think the original question by the op was a bit different to the alternate lead gen / biz in a box as presented later which can be sold out as % on return as indicated.

    For the first original part pricing is really dependent on each persons business plan / goals and position / and there is no wrong or right way but what suits you and your way.

    Both can and do work well. A bit like giving a race car or a billy cart to somebody with 2 left feet, they are going to crash both regardless.

    probably the biggest hurdle is people spending to much time to work anything out / they spend so much time in analysis or making sure the stapler and ruler are placed correctly on the desk, the bin is empty and every other non essential part of the business that they never really just get down to doing any business so the whole thing becomes a mute point, maybe start midstream ? then adjust your business as required when working with real numbers.
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  • Profile picture of the author opiniones
    Originally Posted by sdentrepreneur View Post

    I charge $2,500 Per Month with 6 Month Contracts for list below. I charge less if clients don't want Google Adwords. Hope this helps.

    My Business Marketing

    * Connect your Website with My Business Marketing Platform
    * Custom Graphics for all Social Media Sites
    * Set Up Accounts For Top 20+ Social Media and Feeds
    * Branding Your Business as Leader in Industry
    * Create Custom Blog Page
    * Extensive Keyword Research To Pin Point Target Marke
    * Set Up 10+ Google Adwords Campaigns or Adgroups
    * Add 1,000 Keywords
    * Dominate Google Front Page PPC in 24 hours
    * Client Pays Google Directly For PPC Fees
    * Twitter Account Setup – Pictures, Backgrounds and Bio
    * LinkedIn Account Setup - Pictures and Bio
    * Facebook Account Setup – Pictures and Bio
    * YouTube Account Set Up - Pictures, Backgrounds and Bio
    * MySpace Account Set Up - Pictures, Backgrounds and Bio
    * Set Up System to get 3,000 Friends/Followers/Connections in 90 Days
    * Create Video or Slide Show to Promote Business
    * Use Video on all your Social Neworks
    * Keyword Research on Where to Place Ads on Google/Yahoo/MSN
    * Get Video on Google/Yahoo/MSN Front Page with 3 Different Keywords per month
    * Set Up Article Submission Service To 30 Different Social Bookmarking Sites
    * Custom E-Mail Marketing Campaigns
    * Complete Auto Responder System Set Up
    * Training on E-Mail Marketing and Social Media Training
    * Get Your Business On First Page of Google Maps
    * Create Internet Based Sales Funnel For Lead Generation and List Building
    * Two Hours Of Personal Coaching with JMH Marketing Group or Prestige Insight

    CONTACT US BELOW FOR CUSTOM PRICING TO FIT YOUR BUDGET

    San Diego Internet Marketing | Business Marketing Online - My Business Marketing
    Thank you for this post sdentrepreneur! I have a couple of questions for anyone that may be able to answer. Nothing too difficult.

    1. Do you guys give ownership of the web properties to the client? Basically if you create youtube/social networking and other accounts for a business and let's say they decide to cancel the deal after 2 months do you hand the passwords and everything over to them that you created? Do you even give them access to those accounts while they are still your clients?

    I ask this because people mention doing less expensive month to month deals but what if the client were to be approached by someone that charges less than you and they could just take over all the accounts you created and just maintain them from then on?

    So is it wise not to do month to month deals but just do guaranteed contracts for up to a certain amount of months to avoid such a thing happening?
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    • Profile picture of the author rhj12345
      Originally Posted by opiniones View Post

      Thank you for this post sdentrepreneur! I have a couple of questions for anyone that may be able to answer. Nothing too difficult.

      1. Do you guys give ownership of the web properties to the client? Basically if you create youtube/social networking and other accounts for a business and let's say they decide to cancel the deal after 2 months do you hand the passwords and everything over to them that you created? Do you even give them access to those accounts while they are still your clients?

      I ask this because people mention doing less expensive month to month deals but what if the client were to be approached by someone that charges less than you and they could just take over all the accounts you created and just maintain them from then on?

      So is it wise not to do month to month deals but just do guaranteed contracts for up to a certain amount of months to avoid such a thing happening?
      Good question.

      I make sure all my clients own a hosting package and 1 domain name under their business name and credit card, and that' it. This is there main domain and the center of my attention.

      After that I create lots of other web sites based around keywords, kind of in a link wheel format. I own all these sites and use them as leverage to maintain monthly fees from my clients. If they leave so does most of my work.

      Then the next client gets the benefit of a bunch of mature web sites and some with great PR, content and traffic.

      Its the rent a site model and it works great. If you set up a wordpress site with auto posts and a lead gen form, it not only gets leads it helps push their web site to the top of the serps. Just make sure every new post has a back link with the correct anchor text to their site. As you ad a post you ad a back link.

      Everybody wins.

      Hope this helps

      Rob
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  • Profile picture of the author LarryS
    What a great thread! I'm new to WF and am amazed at the wealth of knowledge available here.

    My 2 cents on this topic: I really like the "module" idea mentioned earlier. I would have certain services available in each module. But then the price of the module would be higher depending no the clients ability to pay. For example, module A may include a simple website and a listing on Google Maps. For a house painter you might charge $500 for that module but for a chiropractor you could charge $5000.

    There's no "one size fits all".
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  • Profile picture of the author toplinepub
    I would change it to 1 pr every 6 months and at least 15 SEO articles every month
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  • Profile picture of the author Graphix Guru
    This is a profoundly important thread for offliners! I hope many see it, because it's practically a PhD level discourse (certainly a "short course") on the things one should consider as an offliner re: your business model.

    I think a lot of Warriors have heard about how great it is to be an offliner, and the concept is certainly a sound one. But like anything else, if you want it to work, you'd better have a plan.

    The problem is, if you don't know what you're doing, how can you come up with a plan? This thread really helped me, and I've been "an offliner" in one form or another, most of my adult life. I just haven't been an offliner in the IM consulting realm, specifically, so this thread is GOLDEN!!!

    Specific thanks and a shout-out to Sal64, John Durham and MRomeo69 for their really great, informative posts. I'm probably forgetting a few too. Thanks to everyone for their contributions!
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    • Profile picture of the author DaniMc
      If the OP is still interested, here is how I handle pricing, packages and selling.

      When you go into a sales situation, you must ask questions and listen. Ask a LOT of questions. Learn to hear what they are saying about their business and find out what THEY WANT TO BUY.

      When I first started, I came up with standard packages and it just didn't work. I finally got smart and realized that every business owner has different thoughts about what to do and they have different priorities.

      So, once you know what THEY want...THEN you come up with the packages that are centered around their goals. There are no one-size-fits-all packages. You must tailor them.

      When you find out what their true desires are, you can come back with "That is exactly what we do." Forget about the other stuff and sell them what they want!

      If you have ever read anything about pricing, you may know that given three choices a large percentage of customers will pick the middle price point.

      People connect value with price. They don't want to buy the lowest because they associate it with being cheap. They don't buy the highest because they may think it is more than they need.

      In a nutshell...listen more than you talk. Craft three custom packages just for them, and price the package you want to sell in the middle. They can't resist.

      After you have done this a few times, you will easily create packages on the fly and the customer will thank God they found you.
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  • Profile picture of the author PaulintheSticks
    Wow! What an awesome thread. Maybe it should be a sticky.

    My first two clients are extremely cheap and are difficult to work with in general. I'm really starting to learn that I don't want to do business with them. I want to do business with the most successful businesses in their respective industry. They are successful for a reason. In general, they have bigger marketing budgets, get things done, know better how to convert a lead, are higher quality people and most importantly....pay their bills.

    I agree with the posters that said pricing should be based on results. Although if budget is a serious issue, I would give them an introductory discount till I could prove that the services more than pay for themselves.
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    • Profile picture of the author Randy Miller
      Thanks everyone, this thread has been real helpful. Currently I focus my efforts on local SEO/SEM for small businesses. I have been using 3 packages with no monthly support after the initial period.

      I'm going to be putting serious thought into redesigning my entire model.
      • Stay tuned as I move away from "one size fits all" packagse and move towards customized offerings to met my clients needs (I hear that client wants L*E*A*D*S and don't give a $#it about page rank mumbo jumbo.
      • Not offering monthly support has been a disservice to the client. Whats the point of working hard to getting him ranked on page one (and lots of LEADS) and then just letting him fizzle and fade back because of no ongoing support and maintenance.
      The great thing is, by helping my client to have more success, it's quite likely I'll have even more success myself.
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