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Are The Yellow Pages Really Dead?

by prmoise76
70 replies
Hey Warriors,
I came across this video about the yellow pages and thought it was interesting. Wanted to pass it along.

Take care,
Pierre

#dead #pages #yellow
  • Profile picture of the author DylanJames
    I would argue that there is more opportunity for business in your local yellow pages then there is on the entire internet. The reason is simple. Only about 4% of sales are made online. That means that 96% of sales are made offline...face to face...in your local economy. Sure internet sales are growing but not at the pace anyone ever expected them to grow at. In 2000 they were about 1% of retail sales. In Q1 2010 they were just under 4%. At that growth rate I'll stick to my yellow pages. All those figures are from the US Census.
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    • Profile picture of the author michaljohn
      People who find your business in the yellow pages are actively looking for someone to do business with, and they are ready to make a call. Those who find you via the web may be doing a bit more research on their own before they get in touch. These are potential customers as well, so you need a web site that satisfies the "researchers," but you can't neglect the people who just want to pick up the phone and talk to you.
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      • Profile picture of the author wbinst2
        There are different keywords to target to differentiate searchers from buyers.



        Originally Posted by michaljohn View Post

        People who find your business in the yellow pages are actively looking for someone to do business with, and they are ready to make a call. Those who find you via the web may be doing a bit more research on their own before they get in touch. These are potential customers as well, so you need a web site that satisfies the "researchers," but you can't neglect the people who just want to pick up the phone and talk to you.
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      • Profile picture of the author Jagua
        Good insight MIchael. Customers online or offline going into the yellow pages are at the bottom of the buying funnel..they have a need and they are trying to pull the trigger. Like anything else, yellow pages is one facet of a multi channel marketing plan. I don't know the stats but my hunch is that more folks who are about to buy something are increasingly entering key words and then their locale, which means yellow page usage share is dropping
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Grant
      Originally Posted by DylanJames View Post

      I would argue that there is more opportunity for business in your local yellow pages then there is on the entire internet. The reason is simple. Only about 4% of sales are made online. That means that 96% of sales are made offline...face to face...in your local economy. Sure internet sales are growing but not at the pace anyone ever expected them to grow at. In 2000 they were about 1% of retail sales. In Q1 2010 they were just under 4%. At that growth rate I'll stick to my yellow pages. All those figures are from the US Census.
      4% of sales may be online, but 82% of people search the Internet first for local services.

      You cannot pay a dentist on his website.
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      • Profile picture of the author myob
        Yellow Pages are actually a goldmine! The majority of advertisers in the Yellow Pages seem to be small businesses. They either don't have a website or if they do it's crappy. That's where I get a very large percentage of my clients - start calling from the Yellow Pages.
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      • Profile picture of the author DylanJames
        Originally Posted by mgtarheels View Post

        4% of sales may be online, but 82% of people search the Internet first for local services.

        You cannot pay a dentist on his website.
        They search for information and then buy offline. That's not me saying that, it's the Government saying it. Those are the numbers. It doesn't matter if it's dentists or toys or anything else. 4% is 4%.

        That means that people who are selling products exclusively online are competing for 4% of sales as opposed to people who are completely offline or do both who are competing for 96% of sales.

        Also, people research products. This means that people can research a specific car seat online to find reviews on places like amazon and such and then they will go to their local economy to make the purchase.

        People mainly buy products online for 3 reasons. First, digital products. Second, products that aren't available in their local economy. Third, holiday shopping (no lines, etc.).

        As far as the yellow pages go, generating new business from a yellow pages listing might not be what it used to be but the yellow pages is much more than that.

        The book contains contact information to a super large majority of businesses, broken down by niche, in your local economy. There is HUGE value in that alone.
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        • Profile picture of the author Mike Grant
          Originally Posted by DylanJames View Post

          They search for information and then buy offline. That's not me saying that, it's the Government saying it. Those are the numbers. It doesn't matter if it's dentists or toys or anything else. 4% is 4%.

          That means that people who are selling products exclusively online are competing for 4% of sales as opposed to people who are completely offline or do both who are competing for 96% of sales.

          Also, people research products. This means that people can research a specific car seat online to find reviews on places like amazon and such and then they will go to their local economy to make the purchase.

          People mainly buy products online for 3 reasons. First, digital products. Second, products that aren't available in their local economy. Third, holiday shopping (no lines, etc.).

          As far as the yellow pages go, generating new business from a yellow pages listing might not be what it used to be but the yellow pages is much more than that.

          The book contains contact information to a super large majority of businesses, broken down by niche, in your local economy. There is HUGE value in that alone.
          You're conjoining two arguments.

          You first said the YP is better for a business than the entire Internet.

          To use your current argument, you cannot buy via the YP book, either. It's simply a means of advertising for generating leads.

          Just because they're not buying online does not mean that's not how they discovered the product and or company.

          Again, 82% of people looking for local services look on the Internet first. If you think the YP book can compete with that, you're mistaken.

          Simply put, the Internet and all it's tangibles destroys the YP book in terms of advertising.
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          • Profile picture of the author DylanJames
            Originally Posted by mgtarheels View Post

            You're conjoining two arguments.

            You first said the YP is better for a business than the entire Internet.
            It is.

            Originally Posted by mgtarheels View Post

            To use your current argument, you cannot buy via the YP book, either. It's simply a means of advertising for generating leads.
            The title of the thread is "Are The Yellow Pages Really Dead?" and the answer to that question is NO. Is D&B dead? Hoovers? NO!

            You are thinking of the Yellow Pages in terms of making sales. I am thinking of the Yellow Pages in terms of making relationships. There is a BIG difference.

            Originally Posted by mgtarheels View Post

            Just because they're not buying online does not mean that's not how they discovered the product and or company.
            Yes, they research the product online before buying. But the fact remains that people stop at the research phase. They do not go on to actually pull out the credit card and make the purchase. That is done in the store.

            Originally Posted by mgtarheels View Post

            Again, 82% of people looking for local services look on the Internet first. If you think the YP book can compete with that, you're mistaken.
            We established the fact that 96% of sales are made offline. That would mean that some of those people must be local....right? People aren't going to drive 6 hours to buy a pair of pants. So they have to be local.

            You correctly states that 82% of people research online before making a purchase. How many of those 82% are in your local area? Maybe 1%?

            How many of those businesses listed in your Yellow Pages are in your area? 100%.

            Originally Posted by mgtarheels View Post

            Simply put, the Internet and all it's tangibles destroys the YP book in terms of advertising.
            Not even close. And it won't be even close until my grand kids (my older child is 11) are my age...if ever!

            You are thinking in terms of strictly selling a product or service. I am thinking in terms of running a business. The two are completely different.

            Simply selling a product or service is part of running a business but it is not nearly the entire deal.
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            • Profile picture of the author Mike Grant
              Originally Posted by DylanJames View Post

              It is.



              The title of the thread is "Are The Yellow Pages Really Dead?" and the answer to that question is NO. Is D&B dead? Hoovers? NO!

              You are thinking of the Yellow Pages in terms of making sales. I am thinking of the Yellow Pages in terms of making relationships. There is a BIG difference.



              Yes, they research the product online before buying. But the fact remains that people stop at the research phase. They do not go on to actually pull out the credit card and make the purchase. That is done in the store.



              We established the fact that 96% of sales are made offline. That would mean that some of those people must be local....right? People aren't going to drive 6 hours to buy a pair of pants. So they have to be local.

              You correctly states that 82% of people research online before making a purchase. How many of those 82% are in your local area? Maybe 1%?

              How many of those businesses listed in your Yellow Pages are in your area? 100%.



              Not even close. And it won't be even close until my grand kids (my older child is 11) are my age...if ever!

              You are thinking in terms of strictly selling a product or service. I am thinking in terms of running a business. The two are completely different.

              Simply selling a product or service is part of running a business but it is not nearly the entire deal.
              Again, you're arguing several different points. You never once mentioned anything about building relationships in your initial, or even second, post. If you think you can put more on a YP ad than on a website, again you're mistaken.

              Your reply to me was that 4% of people buy online, which does not refute that 82% of people still search online first for local services. Last I checked, when you search "orlando dentist", you're not going to receive information about Miami dentists .

              I also never once claimed the YP are dead. Never. They serve their purpose, pending on the niche.

              People don't search the YP for building a relationship. They search the YP for a local service or product they need. Why? To buy said service or said product.

              And your math is incorrect. If 82% of people are searching on the Internet for a local service first, it's safe to assume that 82% of the people in my geo are searching on the Internet for a local service.

              If you're in an extremely rural area, I'd imagine 82% to be a high estimate. In this same area the YP would also be much cheaper than in a metro where 82% would be the norm for searching online first.

              I'm not thinking in terms of selling a service or product, but merely utilizing the best available market space to reach my demographic. Explain to me why I would pay more money to be in the YP for a year than to have a website created and have it on the first page for your local keywords? Surely it's not to establish a relationship because a YP book does not have video, does not have as much info a website can have, does not have a map to give you step by step directions from your house, (probably) does not list all their services and prices (if that's their biz model). A YP book cannot get a customer's email address to build rapport with them with bi-monthly emailings.

              If the YP book is that much better than the entire online space, why does the YP have an online version?

              Don't get me wrong, I definitely thing the YP serves it's purpose but that is largely dependent on the niche. Most often, the amount of money spent on the YP can yield a much higher return if that was either spent on direct mailings or on the Internet.
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              • Profile picture of the author DylanJames
                Originally Posted by mgtarheels View Post

                Again, you're arguing several different points. You never once mentioned anything about building relationships in your initial, or even second, post. If you think you can put more on a YP ad than on a website, again you're mistaken.
                When writing on a business forum and talking business, do I have to specially point out that building relationships is important? Again, the OP asked if the Yellow Pages are dead. The title wasn't "For generating sales and leads, are the Yellow Pages dead?" If it was, my answer might have been different.

                Originally Posted by mgtarheels View Post

                Your reply to me was that 4% of people buy online, which does not refute that 82% of people still search online first for local services. Last I checked, when you search "orlando dentist", you're not going to receive information about Miami dentists .
                When you open the Yellow Pages in Orlando you won't find Miami Dentists either. And guess what, there are more dentists in the Yellow Pages than there are online.

                Originally Posted by mgtarheels View Post

                I also never once claimed the YP are dead. Never. They serve their purpose, pending on the niche.
                They serve a purpose for every niche in every area. The Yellow Pages contains almost all the businesses in every niche. Businesses are also consumers. They are also sellers. Business is about putting those two together.

                Originally Posted by mgtarheels View Post

                People don't search the YP for building a relationship. They search the YP for a local service or product they need. Why? To buy said service or said product.
                Really? WOW! I won't even comment.

                Originally Posted by mgtarheels View Post

                And your math is incorrect. If 82% of people are searching on the Internet for a local service first, it's safe to assume that 82% of the people in my geo are searching on the Internet for a local service.
                Nope, that isn't true at all. That's like saying "50% of the country are Democrats so I can assume that half the people in my area are Democrats". If I live in Texas, I'm dead wrong...it's probably more like 25%. If I live in New York City, I'm dead wrong...it's probably more like 75%.

                You can't take a total figure across a huge sample and try to localize it without further studies.

                Originally Posted by mgtarheels View Post

                If you're in an extremely rural area, I'd imagine 82% to be a high estimate. In this same area the YP would also be much cheaper than in a metro where 82% would be the norm for searching online first.
                I don't pay for my Yellow Pages so I have no idea how much it costs.

                Originally Posted by mgtarheels View Post

                I'm not thinking in terms of selling a service or product, but merely utilizing the best available market space to reach my demographic. Explain to me why I would pay more money to be in the YP for a year than to have a website created and have it on the first page for your local keywords? Surely it's not to establish a relationship because a YP book does not have video, does not have as much info a website can have, does not have a map to give you step by step directions from your house, (probably) does not list all their services and prices (if that's their biz model). A YP book cannot get a customer's email address to build rapport with them with bi-monthly emailings.
                You still aren't getting the fact that the Yellow Pages are much, much, more than just an advertising tool.

                Originally Posted by mgtarheels View Post

                If the YP book is that much better than the entire online space, why does the YP have an online version?
                Because the management of YP understands the most important basic business principal - Give People What They WANT Regards Of The Need!

                They understand that their are many more people who think like you as opposed to people who think like me. There are people being bred daily that are trained to think like you as well. If they can make a few dollars off them, why not. That's business.

                People don't turn to DOERS anymore for their education. They turn to people who read a book, rewrite the book and then resell the book. If they turned to the DOERS they'd understand that YP is one of the most valuable sources a business can have.

                Don't get me wrong, I definitely thing the YP serves it's purpose but that is largely dependent on the niche. Most often, the amount of money spent on the YP can yield a much higher return if that was either spent on direct mailings or on the Internet.[/QUOTE]
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                • Profile picture of the author Mike Grant
                  Originally Posted by DylanJames View Post

                  When writing on a business forum and talking business, do I have to specially point out that building relationships is important? Again, the OP asked if the Yellow Pages are dead. The title wasn't "For generating sales and leads, are the Yellow Pages dead?" If it was, my answer might have been different.



                  When you open the Yellow Pages in Orlando you won't find Miami Dentists either. And guess what, there are more dentists in the Yellow Pages than there are online.



                  They serve a purpose for every niche in every area. The Yellow Pages contains almost all the businesses in every niche. Businesses are also consumers. They are also sellers. Business is about putting those two together.



                  Really? WOW! I won't even comment.



                  Nope, that isn't true at all. That's like saying "50% of the country are Democrats so I can assume that half the people in my area are Democrats". If I live in Texas, I'm dead wrong...it's probably more like 25%. If I live in New York City, I'm dead wrong...it's probably more like 75%.

                  You can't take a total figure across a huge sample and try to localize it without further studies.



                  I don't pay for my Yellow Pages so I have no idea how much it costs.



                  You still aren't getting the fact that the Yellow Pages are much, much, more than just an advertising tool.



                  Because the management of YP understands the most important basic business principal - Give People What They WANT Regards Of The Need!

                  They understand that their are many more people who think like you as opposed to people who think like me. There are people being bred daily that are trained to think like you as well. If they can make a few dollars off them, why not. That's business.

                  People don't turn to DOERS anymore for their education. They turn to people who read a book, rewrite the book and then resell the book. If they turned to the DOERS they'd understand that YP is one of the most valuable sources a business can have.

                  Don't get me wrong, I definitely thing the YP serves it's purpose but that is largely dependent on the niche. Most often, the amount of money spent on the YP can yield a much higher return if that was either spent on direct mailings or on the Internet.
                  [/QUOTE]

                  -Exactly, he didn't ask about sales and leads. You threw the figures out there, I merely pointed out more important figures.

                  -You think there are more listings for dentists in the YP? LOL! I mean....LOLL! That's the equivalent of saying the US has more population than the entire world. Simply put, the Internet has every listing of the YP. But, yet, you still never addressed the point I made to refute your 1% argument.

                  -Wait, you mean businesses buy and sell?!?! WHO'DA THUNK! What's your point? If you can justify having a YP ad for the same amount of money (typically much more expensive) as having a website ranking for local keywords, then I have to ask if you have ever tracked this? I have for quite a few niches, and the differences are ridiculous. We're talking over 10x more lead generation, much greater exposure, and builds much more credibility.

                  -If you think the YP is still around for business prospecting (for people like me. Sry, don't know if you're a consultant or not), that is foolish. Is it a great tool for us offliners, hell yes. Is that the purpose of the book? Hell no. Will that be the reason the book continues to be republished? Hell no.

                  -Yes, it does hold weight. Law of averages. Varies town by town, city by city, state by state. And for reference, Obama received 47% of the popular vote in Texas.

                  -I can. The difference between Orlando and even Daytona Beach is huge, let alone small town like Ocala. By huge I mean thousands per month.

                  -Yes, I do understand the different reasons you can use the YP for. But that doesn't defeat the purpose of the YP. The YP is created for business advertising. All you have to do to drive the point home is simply look at the meta data of yp.com. You still did not address my refute of the relationship building.

                  -Seems you've been reading a bit too many WSOs and ebooks found here on the WF of just regurgitated hearsay. People don't turn to doers for education? Explain the majority of doctors, law professors, plumbers, etc. ANY trade, you think they learned that from a regurgitated book? There's a reason why 95% of the time you're trained with hand holding during a typical 9-5 job.
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                  • Profile picture of the author DylanJames
                    Originally Posted by mgtarheels View Post


                    -Exactly, he didn't ask about sales and leads. You threw the figures out there, I merely pointed out more important figures.

                    -You think there are more listings for dentists in the YP? LOL! I mean....LOLL! That's the equivalent of saying the US has more population than the entire world. Simply put, the Internet has every listing of the YP. But, yet, you still never addressed the point I made to refute your 1% argument.
                    In your local area, yes. And that goes for every niche out there.

                    Originally Posted by mgtarheels View Post

                    -Wait, you mean businesses buy and sell?!?! WHO'DA THUNK! What's your point? If you can justify having a YP ad for the same amount of money (typically much more expensive) as having a website ranking for local keywords, then I have to ask if you have ever tracked this? I have for quite a few niches, and the differences are ridiculous. We're talking over 10x more lead generation, much greater exposure, and builds much more credibility.
                    You are still talking "Ads" and selling products.

                    Originally Posted by mgtarheels View Post

                    -If you think the YP is still around for business prospecting (for people like me. Sry, don't know if you're a consultant or not), that is foolish. Is it a great tool for us offliners, hell yes. Is that the purpose of the book? Hell no. Will that be the reason the book continues to be republished? Hell no.
                    I never said they were around for "business prospecting". I said that a Yellow Pages is one of the most valuable tools a business can have because it lists all the businesses in the local area and is great for relationship building. Notice I said "Having a Yellow Pages" not an "Ad".

                    Originally Posted by mgtarheels View Post

                    -Yes, it does hold weight. Law of averages. Varies town by town, city by city, state by state. And for reference, Obama received 47% of the popular vote in Texas.
                    It doesn't hold weight at all because the numbers are not localized. We established that only 4% of sales are made online. 96% of sales are not. Because of that, your sales have to come from the local economy.

                    82% of people research products before buying. That is true. But that doesn't mean that 82% of people IN YOUR AREA research products before buying. It depends on the area.

                    It's the same thing with the 4% number. That number is higher in certain areas and lower in others.

                    Originally Posted by mgtarheels View Post

                    -I can. The difference between Orlando and even Daytona Beach is huge, let alone small town like Ocala. By huge I mean thousands per month.

                    -Yes, I do understand the different reasons you can use the YP for. But that doesn't defeat the purpose of the YP. The YP is created for business advertising. All you have to do to drive the point home is simply look at the meta data of yp.com. You still did not address my refute of the relationship building.
                    Yellow pages is a business directory just like D&B and Hoovers. People use it for advertising but it's a directory.

                    Originally Posted by mgtarheels View Post

                    -Seems you've been reading a bit too many WSOs and ebooks found here on the WF of just regurgitated hearsay. People don't turn to doers for education? Explain the majority of doctors, law professors, plumbers, etc. ANY trade, you think they learned that from a regurgitated book? There's a reason why 95% of the time you're trained with hand holding during a typical 9-5 job.
                    I've never bought a WSO in my life and don't plan on it. Just because one person made 4 million dollars in ten minutes while playing Xbox and eating chips don't mean I can do it.

                    I forgot that I had to spell everything out letter by letter for you. I didn't mean doctors and lawyers. I meant the swarm of people who think that they can turn their computer on on a Tuesday and be Mark Zuckerberg that Friday.

                    Those people don't turn to experts like Jobs, Trump, Gates, Buffet, Blair, Iaccoca, Ford, Bloomberg, Etc. Etc. Etc. They turn to the "4 million in ten minutes while on Xbox" people. If they turned to books (and I mean the ones in the library or book store) that are written by proven experts in business and learned basic business principals and how to run a company instead of looking for the quick fix they'd be better off. They'd also understand my point about the Yellow Pages a bit more.

                    You said yourself that every business is both a buyer and a seller (remember...WHO'DA THUNK!). We also know that the Yellow Pages provides a listing of almost every business in your local area broken down by niche with contact information. If you can't put those two facts together and make something out of it, I'm sorry.
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      • Profile picture of the author Black Hat Cat
        Banned
        Originally Posted by mgtarheels View Post

        4% of sales may be online, but 82% of people search the Internet first for local services.
        Yeah, I'm calling BS on that one.
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        • Profile picture of the author Justin Jordan
          Originally Posted by Black Hat Cat View Post

          Yeah, I'm calling BS on that one.
          I strongly suspect that if that's not just a made up number (not from the poster, but the original source) it's based on an online survey that would naturally have enormous selection bias built in.
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        • Profile picture of the author DylanJames
          Originally Posted by Black Hat Cat View Post

          Yeah, I'm calling BS on that one.
          I'm assuming you were referring to the 82% number. I didn't post that so I have no data to back it up. I was assuming he was right because the number sounded reasonable.

          The 4% number is true tough according to the US Census.

          1st Quarter 2010

          That's quarter 1 2010. That was the latest data I could find. Still right around 4%.

          The scary thing is not the 4% number. The scary thing is that in 2000 it was around 1%. 3 percentage points in 10 years is not good considering the fact that many "experts" were predicting that it would be much higher.

          The only thing I could find about people searching before buying was on Smart Company. The figure was around 50%. Here's the article.

          How do people research online before buying in-store? - Business news, business advice and information for Australian SMEs | SmartCompany

          And it's from August of 2009. Not too old but certainly not current.
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          • Profile picture of the author Justin Jordan
            Because I was interested, I checked out how many household have internet access in the US, and the number seems to be right aroun eighty percent, so I am deeply suspicious of the eighty two percent search figure.
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            • Profile picture of the author jsherloc
              Originally Posted by Justin Jordan View Post

              Because I was interested, I checked out how many household have internet access in the US, and the number seems to be right aroun eighty percent, so I am deeply suspicious of the eighty two percent search figure.
              Even so, would you not agree it would be wise for a business to go after the majority of the pie first? I guess that is where I am coming from....

              What percentage do you believe it to be realistically around? (asking everyone)

              - Jim
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              • Profile picture of the author Justin Jordan
                Originally Posted by jsherloc View Post

                Even so, would you not agree it would be wise for a business to go after the majority of the pie first? I guess that is where I am coming from....

                What percentage do you believe it to be realistically around? (asking everyone)

                - Jim
                At the risk of sounding like I'm waffling, it's going to depend on the business. If I'm a mechanic in rural Pennsylvania, Yellow Pages is a way better use of my money. On the other hand, if I'm the owner of a vintage clothes boutique in NYC, the Yellow Pages are going to be pretty far down in value to me.

                But I think in general, it's worth having a Yellow Pages ad and a web presence.
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                • Profile picture of the author jsherloc
                  Originally Posted by Justin Jordan View Post

                  At the risk of sounding like I'm waffling, it's going to depend on the business. If I'm a mechanic in rural Pennsylvania, Yellow Pages is a way better use of my money. On the other hand, if I'm the owner of a vintage clothes boutique in NYC, the Yellow Pages are going to be pretty far down in value to me.

                  But I think in general, it's worth having a Yellow Pages ad and a web presence.
                  Totally agree. I just think for the majority of businesses people are working with and the areas they are located in (sorry rural folk we win numbers-wise,... and my family is from kentucky, west virginia, and southern ohio, sorry :p), an optimized local web presence (local serp domination PPC included) will get them results much quicker than a YP ad or a "yp online presence". Just my opinion...

                  edit: I should add that even in places where this is not the case CURRENTLY, I think we could all agree it (local ad spend) is trending heavily towards the "online sector" and should continue to do so, based upon numerous studies? Like I mentioned earlier, I believe most rural US will be way more connected and "researching local businesses to do business with" within a decade TOPS at the rate we are going now. Even in the extremely low-income areas. Basic Internet access (in several forms) is getting CHEAP.

                  - Jim
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                  • Profile picture of the author Amir Luis
                    Originally Posted by jsherloc View Post

                    .... Even in the extremely low-income areas. Basic Internet access (in several forms) is getting CHEAP.

                    - Jim
                    This is so true... The rural communities look on the internet too. Even the grandmas emailing the grandkids... Low income internet usage is definitely on the rise. Look at PrePaid cell phone providers that include unlimited 3G internet in thier unlimited talk and text plans for $40 per month.


                    John... I wish the YP designers were making $10 per hour. But they outsource everything to India... so it's more like $3 Yet I know a sales rep that is getting $20k in residuals on top of his salary and other commissions. So... you are absolutely right... the sales people that are cold calling on a daily basis... they are the ones making the money.
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  • Profile picture of the author Chad Heffelfinger
    It might not be dead, but it's deffinitely dying. Just because a larger percentage of people buy in person doesn't mean that the majority are using the Yellow Pages to do the business search to find the business, that argument just doesn't work.

    Sure there are some busineses that still need to advertise there, but more and more people are just tossing them into the trash and never even using them at all.
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  • Profile picture of the author k60mall
    I agree with Chad. Even though only 4% are purchased online over 70% use the Internet to find that online business before they visit the business premises.

    You must also realise that there are a lot of service businesses out there and these guys are not counted as online sales as they don't actually have a product to sell.

    Keith
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  • Profile picture of the author markosolo
    As a business trying to advertise, the yellow pages are dead. As someone looking for customers, they are not

    However, I have worked at some large corporates that check all tender applications against the yellow pages, and if your not in it, you don't get the job...
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  • Profile picture of the author SubUrbanHype
    If you have to opt-in to get the Yellow Book, it would most certainly die, because nobody is using them, except sales people and internet marketers to find businesses to call.
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    • Profile picture of the author timmykins
      Businesses use the Yellow Pages and continue to pay for it, simply because it's something they've always done and probably what their competitors are doing, so they do the same. It is the same with newspapaper advertising too. And, these businesses have no real idea whether it is actually working for them or not, ie, whether they are getting a good return on their investment or not.

      I've had several clients who were advertising in the yellow pages, and paying a lot for it, drop their ads and redirect their marketing budget to the web because they can see it is actually working and bringing new clients to their business.

      That's what is important when you are prospecting, educating businesses to the massive return on their investment that they could be getting with a decent website.

      Just my tupence worth

      Tim
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  • Profile picture of the author MichaelHiles
    Yeah those Yellow Pages sure are dead.

    How about taking a look at just one regional Yellow Pages provider

    Dex One Corporation

    They're running a massive PPC campaign right now on Facebook.

    They're into SEO, Mobile... a whole bunch of stuff...

    Products & Services | Dexknows.com

    Oh... they're massive... billion dollars a year in sales... and growing...

    If you guys are naive enough to think that these billion dollar companies are just going to sit around and disappear because their traditional product is on the backside of the bell curve, you're making a huge assumption.

    Marketing folks understand the idea of a product lifecycle, and successful companies are already prepared to fill in the void with new products and services. Most of these directory publishers have been working diligently on delivering online services for a very long time.

    They already have a massive sales force in place, and an existing customer database... not to mention an existing relationship.

    Well entrenched competition.

    Marching through the front door, decrying the Yellow Pages to the business owner (who has already had multiple conversations with sales reps from the directory involving all the other services) simply causes one to be completely unaware of the marketplace. Not too confidence inspiring to any business owner with a slight modicum of success when the self-described "marketing expert" in front of them isn't aware of the marketplace.



    Oh... and yes, literally millions and millions of people still use Yellow Pages in every market.


    The point to all of this is that if you're going to sell marketing services to business, and try to use a negative sales comparison to Yellow Pages providers, you may want to rethink your strategy.
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    • Profile picture of the author Brenden Clerget
      Originally Posted by MichaelHiles View Post

      Yeah those Yellow Pages sure are dead.

      How about taking a look at just one regional Yellow Pages provider

      Dex One Corporation

      They're running a massive PPC campaign right now on Facebook.

      They're into SEO, Mobile... a whole bunch of stuff...

      Products & Services | Dexknows.com

      Oh... they're massive... billion dollars a year in sales... and growing...

      If you guys are naive enough to think that these billion dollar companies are just going to sit around and disappear because their traditional product is on the backside of the bell curve, you're making a huge assumption.

      Marketing folks understand the idea of a product lifecycle, and successful companies are already prepared to fill in the void with new products and services. Most of these directory publishers have been working diligently on delivering online services for a very long time.

      They already have a massive sales force in place, and an existing customer database... not to mention an existing relationship.

      Well entrenched competition.

      Marching through the front door, decrying the Yellow Pages to the business owner (who has already had multiple conversations with sales reps from the directory involving all the other services) simply causes one to be completely unaware of the marketplace. Not too confidence inspiring to any business owner with a slight modicum of success when the self-described "marketing expert" in front of them isn't aware of the marketplace.



      Oh... and yes, literally millions and millions of people still use Yellow Pages in every market.


      The point to all of this is that if you're going to sell marketing services to business, and try to use a negative sales comparison to Yellow Pages providers, you may want to rethink your strategy.

      And UNFORTUNATELY, it's hard to justify your services even more when YP.com has a television ad that advertises "Get a website set up for $99" or whatever it is, and when you quote a client, you say "The website is going to blow..." but in more detailed terms, and it's not enough sometimes to push them away from a cookie cutter site.

      Mr Hiles touched on this, but you shouldn't be positioning the YP ad a dying market as much as a less beneficial way to spend their marketing spend, than the traditional SEO and Web advertising that you offer. You have to frame questions and thoughts to the owner that answers their own concerns about what you're advertising.

      When the information companies have all the marketing budget, and you can't even reach 1% of their marketing spend, you have to do other things to try to make sales.

      But yes - the yellow pages are dead, and dying, but it doesn't mean they're not going to continue being successful in other market sectors, just like Michael said.

      Easier way to answer this: When's the last time YOU picked up the phone book to find a business' information? Oh well if they don't make their sales online - but I bet you're finding them online a much higher percentage than you're finding them in a phone book.

      And even MORE importantly, a lot of the people NOT using the internet to find them, are people that grew up in the market where the phone book was the place, and as the generations shift over the next 20 years, I'd be amazed if people are even using a phone book almost at all anymore with the new technologies and things coming out. You'll be buying a mobile app or something - or using the ones that already exist, that I even have on my phone.
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  • Profile picture of the author MichaelHiles
    Brenden, I think the one mistake that we can make is actually using ourselves as the test of the effectiveness of Yellow Pages.

    By asking, "When was the last time YOU used the Yellow Pages?" isn't actually a relevant question for a client because YOU may not be their target customer, and YOU are skewed towards being a technical user.

    There are literally millions of non-technical folks with billions and billions of spending power who couldn't begin to tell you how to open a browser, let alone do a Google search for a local business.

    Our task as a marketing consultant isn't to superimpose our own view of the world upon a business owner - but alas, that's exactly what a whole bunch of "offliners" do - instead of actually figuring out the fundamentals for their particular business client, and putting together a solution that's tailored specific to the needs of that company.

    Some people get all offended and their feathers ruffled up when I say these things. They bristle because they see their own goose that lays the golden egg as SEO, local search, etc... when in fact, their own goose might be something as mundane as helping a local business build and manage a database list and send out direct mail pieces on a monthly basis as a managed campaign.

    Whodathunkit.
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  • Profile picture of the author jsherloc
    Yeah, I gotta agree with mgtarheels on this one. I'd be interested to hear what other people's clients on here have experienced in terms of Yellow Pages ROI / advertising versus purely online SEO, etc.....

    In my limited experiences the only niches where they effectively tracked (supposedly) their YP results and showed a clear result was HVAC and plumbing. Both of these make sense to me, along with a few other niches. So yeah, every other biz owner has told me they are basically worthless (in print form AND their web garbage now), and their target markets are CLEARLY not using them (from tracking tests they've done to just years of getting little to no results, etc).

    The YP will have its place for a bit, especially in certain local niches, but I wouldn't advise many businesses to get a full page color ad any time soon either.

    I can't really think of more than a handful of niches where I would bet money that their YP ad could be producing more revenue than their local SEO efforts. (all other things considered "level" -- good YP ad in print or online -- good local seo efforts).

    I don't believe I have the golden goose for one moment, but there are more geese to catch on the Internet than ANYWHERE else right now in MOST major local areas / niches....so that is where I hang my hat. I would hope most here don't believe that SEO ALONE will ultimately save / grow a business, but I'm sure many here believe that it is one of the best ways / is often the best way to get started building a LONGTERM presence or brand in a local area. I'm sure many believe it is one of the best ways to capture local targeted traffic and leads as well, while implementing an automated sales funnel, etc...

    - Jim
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  • Profile picture of the author DylanJames
    Here is a video from someone who has taught me a lot over the years. Most of you might not have heard of him but he is a business LEGEND who has done Hundreds of Millions of dollars in sales over the years. His name is Jim Straw and this video has a lot to do with this thread.

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  • Profile picture of the author vip-ip
    Pierre,

    Excellent share, thank you. My partner recently made a telemarketing case study and YellowPages was all to inefficient for her as well. Check it out, it's free: http://www.warriorforum.com/make-mon...ail-optin.html

    Best Regards,
    vip-ip ...
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  • Profile picture of the author usualwork17
    Yellow pages are still useful nowadays.
    Even with the advancement of the internet,
    still many of business transactions are made face to face, offline.
    And that most transactions came from yellow pages.
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  • Profile picture of the author MichaelHiles
    What's ironic to me is how a lot of Yellow Pages publishers give away high quality web & SEO services as free bonuses for buying a print ad.

    Now my esteemed marketing professional friends... why do you suppose that they do that?

    I've recently discussed this with the CEO of a large YP publishing company. I know the real answer.

    I'll probably be called arrogant and condescending again for actually giving the answer.

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    • Profile picture of the author vip-ip
      Originally Posted by MichaelHiles View Post

      What's ironic to me is how a lot of Yellow Pages publishers give away high quality web & SEO services as free bonuses for buying a print ad.

      Now my esteemed marketing professional friends... why do you suppose that they do that?

      I've recently discussed this with the CEO of a large YP publishing company. I know the real answer.

      I'll probably be called arrogant and condescending again for actually giving the answer.
      Oh come on now! :rolleyes:

      Best Regards,
      vip-ip ...
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Grant
      Originally Posted by MichaelHiles View Post

      What's ironic to me is how a lot of Yellow Pages publishers give away high quality web & SEO services as free bonuses for buying a print ad.

      Now my esteemed marketing professional friends... why do you suppose that they do that?

      I've recently discussed this with the CEO of a large YP publishing company. I know the real answer.

      I'll probably be called arrogant and condescending again for actually giving the answer.
      Loss leader.
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      • Profile picture of the author MichaelHiles
        Originally Posted by mgtarheels View Post

        Loss leader.

        Competitive block out.

        This is the very reason I talk about NOT being a "one trick pony". That concept irritates some people who are diehard, "SEO is the alpha and omega of marketing" folks.

        When you have well capitalized, well entrenched, well informed competition with an array of services, and a gigantic customer base going directly after the very business you want to sell by giving away your services for FREE at an equal or superior quality of delivery (they have access to lots of offshore folks too)... well... you better have another offering.

        The big guys know that there's an extremely low "barrier to entry" for the online marketing space, which is why there's a horde of new players every day trying to cast their lot in the game.

        They also know that they can't afford to allow an erosion in the growing segment of marketing in their existing customer base... so they block out by giving away the services as an add-on bonus.

        They understand the lifetime value of their customer and can amortize the cost across a longer timeframe, whereas the tiny guy has to eat. An independent "offline SEO service provider" can't afford to give away their services, so it puts them at an incredible disadvantage. Not that it cannot be overcome, but there are sharks in the water.

        Raw, in your face business 101. What's your plan? Will you be in business in 24 months?
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        • Profile picture of the author JamieSEO
          The Yellow Pages may not be dead... but it is definitely not as popular as it used to be.

          Most of my offline clients used to have 1/4 or 1/8 page ads in the Yellow Pages, but have now reduced to either just a tiny, basic ad, or are ignoring the Yellow Pages altogether and going with local online directories.

          Of the 9 clients I have that did this none of them suffered a reduction in clientele - in fact, on average they saved several thousand dollars, and all of them had increases in their customer traffic by focusing on Twitter, Facebook, Google Places and free local directories.

          There are so many more effective alternatives now I have to wonder how long the Yellow Pages can last.
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          • Profile picture of the author biggoogle
            One of my clients spent $30,000 on YP last year, and he got only ONE phone call (he was tracking results). The lead wasn't closed by the way. Mighty expensive me thinks.

            His ad was pretty big and he had 4-5 other competitors who had big ads also.

            YP may not be dead... but it is definitely on its way out. Fast.

            Just take a look at the stats of Google (and Google Places) vs. YP.

            Gabriel
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by MichaelHiles View Post

      What's ironic to me is how a lot of Yellow Pages publishers give away high quality web & SEO services as free bonuses for buying a print ad.

      Now my esteemed marketing professional friends... why do you suppose that they do that?

      I've recently discussed this with the CEO of a large YP publishing company. I know the real answer.

      I'll probably be called arrogant and condescending again for actually giving the answer.
      I'll tell you why Michael... because they can train a data entry person for 10 bucks per hour to do all the populating of the templates and seo, just like a chicken plant production line employee.

      This is where people are so arrogant. The skills that many wear like a badge of honor, companies like this train virtual MONKEYS to perform , mindlessly, through step by step processes.

      And their Monkey's can complete the whole webpage/seo fulfillment process in 15 minutes or less on each customer.

      Also because , even though some poeple here would charge 200 bucks per month to perform the same service... YP can copmplete 4 customers an hour for 10 bucks... even so it adds a ton of "perceived value" to their YP print ads.

      To us its a business to perform these tasks, to them though its just a cheap value add.

      Hint: Their telemarketing sales people get paid more than the ones doing the seo and web pages... because a salesperson is more valuable. Period.

      There's my two cents.
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  • Profile picture of the author joelwalters
    This may sound wierd coming from an internet marketer, but the Yellow Pages do have their place, and are still very effective. It all depends on how well the ad is written. Direct response is the only way to go. A good ad should have the usual 1. Headline 2. An offer (incorporating the USP) 3. Some kind of urgency or scarcity of possible.
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  • Profile picture of the author redlegrich
    I think the use of the YP is very demographic dependent. In Seattle they are deader than a doornail. Other cities it may be better, the "older" generation tends to use them a bit more. I keep at least one copy for emergency uses, other than that they go stright from the doorstep to the recycle bin.

    They do have one really good use though. They are a great research tool! It's a good way to find market niches, find who is doing a lousy job etc. Also, see who has the largest ad, they are spending LOTS of money! Maybe they'd like to reduce that spend, that's where we come in ;-)

    Lastly, check out this webinar by HubSpot:

    Free Webinar: Why Yellow Pages Ads are a Waste of Money
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    • Profile picture of the author Justin Jordan
      I live in the sticks.

      This is important, because it means that Yellow Pages are incredibly useful to me and people like me. Most businesses don't have any website to speak of, so it's whole lot faster for me to grab the Yellow Pages and look for what I need to know.

      So for businesses around here, the Yellow Pages are a good investment. In the heart of big city, much less so.

      That said, given the expansion of smartphones and the like, the Yellow Pages as they are now are derinitely dying, but it's a slow death and, realistically isn't dying so much as changing.
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  • Profile picture of the author jsherloc
    Dylan, you bring up some solid points. The only reason I have to a disagree with you as a whole is based upon my countless conversations with business owners and the many demographics in MY local area.

    The whole "want" vs "need" thing is a bit of a stretch IMO. Most people on here doing this will be the first to tell you that many businesses have no clue what they truly NEED marketing-wise, but the biz owners sure don't have a problem coming up with their business "wants" --- and these wants are essentially their NEEDS on the most basic level, agreed? They want more local customers, more leads, more local exposure, more relationships, reoccurring relationships, more money, etc. My first step in working with them to accomplish their "wants / needs" would be local SEO work, not advising them to advertise in the YP.

    I will say though that someone opening a YP to look for "orlando dentists" and someone searching the net for "orlando dentists" BOTH clearly have BUYING INTENT, which is a plus in ANY form of advertising. These people are not just browsing the YP to "research", unless they are like us of course! Scratch that, could be price-hunting I guess....

    I do have to ask though, Who exactly are these DOERs that you speak of? It is a bit puzzling and slightly condescneding, but as Michael has stated, we are all big boys here and we're here to exchange ideas, so I'm game I promise my SEO-feelings won't be hurt. If there are a bunch of statistics and studies that back up what you are saying about the YP being :" one of the most valuable sources a business can have". When you say "valuable", are you saying YP are "one of the most PROFITABLE sources?" for most businesses to have, or just "one of the most valuable sources" in terms of other things, like research wise, relationship building, etc? Because if we are not talking about actual profitability here but other business "growth", then we are not arguing anything.

    All I can reference is my own experiences / conversations and the collective experiences and opinions from people doing this all over the country here in the U.S. (have no clue about YP usage in International areas, curious somewhat though...)

    Crap, if there is some magical other ways for a business to use the YP to "grow", I am all ears. I'd even buy a book and give it to my clients....but wait...would it actually be written by a DOER? I kid I kid...

    - Jim
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Grant
      Originally Posted by jsherloc View Post

      Dylan, you bring up some solid points. The only reason I have to a disagree with you as a whole is based upon my countless conversations with business owners and the many demographics in MY local area.

      The whole "want" vs "need" thing is a bit of a stretch IMO. Most people on here doing this will be the first to tell you that many businesses have no clue what they truly NEED marketing-wise, but the biz owners sure don't have a problem coming up with their business "wants" --- and these wants are essentially their NEEDS on the most basic level, agreed? They want more local customers, more leads, more local exposure, more relationships, reoccurring relationships, more money, etc. My first step in working with them to accomplish their "wants / needs" would be local SEO work, not advising them to advertise in the YP.

      I will say though that someone opening a YP to look for "orlando dentists" and someone searching the net for "orlando dentists" BOTH clearly have BUYING INTENT, which is a plus in ANY form of advertising. These people are not just browsing the YP to "research", unless they are like us of course! Scratch that, could be price-hunting I guess....

      I do have to ask though, Who exactly are these DOERs that you speak of? It is a bit puzzling and slightly condescneding, but as Michael has stated, we are all big boys here and we're here to exchange ideas, so I'm game I promise my SEO-feelings won't be hurt. If there are a bunch of statistics and studies that back up what you are saying about the YP being :" one of the most valuable sources a business can have". When you say "valuable", are you saying YP are "one of the most PROFITABLE sources?" for most businesses to have, or just "one of the most valuable sources" in terms of other things, like research wise, relationship building, etc? Because if we are not talking about actual profitability here but other business "growth", then we are not arguing anything.

      All I can reference is my own experiences / conversations and the collective experiences and opinions from people doing this all over the country here in the U.S. (have no clue about YP usage in International areas, curious somewhat though...)

      Crap, if there is some magical other ways for a business to use the YP to "grow", I am all ears. I'd even buy a book and give it to my clients....but wait...would it actually be written by a DOER? I kid I kid...

      - Jim
      YP is good for the following:
      business prospecting
      pending on the niche, lead generation
      Studying copy
      Further intricacies of studying your competition
      "Swipe files"


      Basically, for the majority it is hardly, if even, worth the dollar for it's actual intent. The dollars are better spent elsewhere, as mentioned like direct mail, online advertising, giveaways.
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    • Profile picture of the author DylanJames
      Originally Posted by jsherloc View Post

      Dylan, you bring up some solid points. The only reason I have to a disagree with you as a whole is based upon my countless conversations with business owners and the many demographics in MY local area.

      The whole "want" vs "need" thing is a bit of a stretch IMO. Most people on here doing this will be the first to tell you that many businesses have no clue what they truly NEED marketing-wise, but the biz owners sure don't have a problem coming up with their business "wants" --- and these wants are essentially their NEEDS on the most basic level, agreed? They want more local customers, more leads, more local exposure, more relationships, reoccurring relationships, more money, etc. My first step in working with them to accomplish their "wants / needs" would be local SEO work, not advising them to advertise in the YP.
      I never once said that advertising in the Yellow Pages was a good or bad idea. That wasn't the point of what I was saying.

      To your point though, if you walked into one of my companies as a marketing consultant and I told you that I wanted to be listed in the Yellow Pages and you refused to do it I wouldn't work with you.

      Yellow Pages is offering online stuff because that's what people WANT. It's not their job to determine what's actually good for their customers. It's their job to give the customers what they want, price it right, and service the account after the sale.

      Originally Posted by jsherloc View Post

      I will say though that someone opening a YP to look for "orlando dentists" and someone searching the net for "orlando dentists" BOTH clearly have BUYING INTENT, which is a plus in ANY form of advertising. These people are not just browsing the YP to "research", unless they are like us of course! Scratch that, could be price-hunting I guess....
      I would say that someone searching the hard copy of Yellow Pages is more of a buyer than someone searching online for something.

      Maybe calling them more of a "buyer" is not right. But they are more likely to buy from the person they contact as opposed to someone online. Someone could easily click hundreds of websites looking at something but they aren't going to call hundreds of stores in the YP.

      Originally Posted by jsherloc View Post

      I do have to ask though, Who exactly are these DOERs that you speak of? It is a bit puzzling and slightly condescneding, but as Michael has stated, we are all big boys here and we're here to exchange ideas, so I'm game I promise my SEO-feelings won't be hurt. If there are a bunch of statistics and studies that back up what you are saying about the YP being :" one of the most valuable sources a business can have". When you say "valuable", are you saying YP are "one of the most PROFITABLE sources?" for most businesses to have, or just "one of the most valuable sources" in terms of other things, like research wise, relationship building, etc? Because if we are not talking about actual profitability here but other business "growth", then we are not arguing anything.
      What I meant by that is people will benefit more from getting a really good business foundation from someone who is proven as opposed to learning a "secret" from someone online. No doubt there are plenty of people online who offer great ideas, and I never bash anyone, but for a beginner, in my view, a solid foundation in business principals is the most important.

      Most of the courses and ebooks I've seen advertised online in reference to "business" don't talk about any of that. Most of them highlight the exact opposite of what it takes to truly operate a successful company.

      Originally Posted by jsherloc View Post

      All I can reference is my own experiences / conversations and the collective experiences and opinions from people doing this all over the country here in the U.S. (have no clue about YP usage in International areas, curious somewhat though...)

      Crap, if there is some magical other ways for a business to use the YP to "grow", I am all ears. I'd even buy a book and give it to my clients....but wait...would it actually be written by a DOER? I kid I kid...

      - Jim
      Read my last post. All businesses are buyers and sellers. The Yellow Pages is a directory of almost every business in your local area broken down by niche with contact information. That right there is enough information to grow a business or start a brand new company and make a serious living if you can put it all together.
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  • Profile picture of the author John7447
    I own a replacement window and siding company , yellow pages is a very poor return for the buck. Money spent on PPC and SEO 200% return and up , in a very bad economy. For emergency type business like plumber , it sill works for the over 50 folks. I feel it will be
    dead in 5 years. Most young people don't even have land lines.
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  • Profile picture of the author jsherloc
    Written a decade ago too...wow. Yeah I honestly don't know ANYONE with a land line. Every one seems to have a cell phone. Actually one of my grandmothers still does have her landline I believe. My other grandmother recently had hers disconnected though. That was kind of a "sign" for me....

    Also, that article made me think about the whole "predictability" about the connection between Internet shopping and owning a personal computer. The stats on owning a personal computer are probably staggering at this point....

    Hate to say it, but the people that are NOT online in some form or another at this point in time, well they probably are not going be your target customers anyways...for a multitude of reasons, unfortunately, poverty being one of the largest I'd imagine.
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  • Profile picture of the author jsherloc
    LOL I was rereading it like WAIT A MINUTE....gotcha.
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  • Profile picture of the author jsherloc
    Yeah, the other thing to consider is the rising use of smart phones / GPS. I just got a GPS, and I have stopped in places and purchased things I never would have found without "browsing" around local businesses on it.

    All the major local business data directories are supplying them, so chances are if your clients are on all those local directories and listings, they are automatically popping up on people's GPS. Interesting stuff. Also, consider that many/most? new cars will have a built-in GPS as well in the next few years. Of course, most people with a GPS probably have a computer AND a smart phone at this point......

    - Jim
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    • Profile picture of the author vip-ip
      Originally Posted by MichaelHiles View Post

      What's ironic to me is how a lot of Yellow Pages publishers give away high quality web & SEO services as free bonuses for buying a print ad.

      Now my esteemed marketing professional friends... why do you suppose that they do that?

      I've recently discussed this with the CEO of a large YP publishing company. I know the real answer.

      I'll probably be called arrogant and condescending again for actually giving the answer.
      Excellent point. This is worth bringing up to a client if you're selling SEO services and Google Maps listings: "Hey, I've seen a lot of people with smartphones in the area ... do you ever wonder how many folks look for you on their gadgets but just can't find you? Let's get you there as soon as next week, because I know how."

      Best Regards,
      vip-ip ...
      Originally Posted by jsherloc View Post

      Yeah, the other thing to consider is the rising use of smart phones / GPS. I just got a GPS, and I have stopped in places and purchased things I never would have found without "browsing" around local businesses on it.

      All the major local business data directories are supplying them, so chances are if your clients are on all those local directories and listings, they are automatically popping up on people's GPS. Interesting stuff. Also, consider that many/most? new cars will have a built-in GPS as well in the next few years. Of course, most people with a GPS probably have a computer AND a smart phone at this point......

      - Jim
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  • Profile picture of the author www_retireonme_com
    WOW! talk about a bunch of different views here. OK, my turn.

    Yellowpages are dying a bit in my mind. Here is why, yes 82% of the people look online to find a service or read or learn more about it. You cant tell me that they can look you up in the phonebook, click your website link, watch a video, look at color pics, optin for more info, print a coupon. See, as an offline marketer, I do offer Google Places listing support. We rank them high in google for local search terms,etc.

    Now think about this. With all these advanced cell phones out there, you are using more tech, then ever before! My friends do not even grab the phone book, they just 'talk' into the phone for whatever they are looking for and all the listings appear on google, and then then can browse them (in color, pics, videos,etc)

    I know that YP's will still be around for a while, but honestly I only use them for one thing and that is usually looking for a number in the 'white page listing' area.


    Lets just say this, if I were to look for a lawyer in my home town, and I KNOW that I am going to spend good money on this guy, I am going to research them for a while. I will go to the phone book as well, but the guys with the big checkbooks will all have the biggest ads, so I will also look on the internet.

    I try to look at the top listings in google(yes they pay to be that high) BUT, I can look around their website and try and learn more about them, I can do my own research of them before I pick up the phone to call. When you just look at the YP ad, it is all business and they can only fit so much in the ad, whereas on the internet you will find many pages within their website to read and learn as much about this company as you want to.

    You have to remember this, we are evolving very fast in the technology part of all this, I just can not see a huge paperbook being around forever. Everything is digital and computerized and businesses are already seeing this, some are trying to split their budget between the book and the net. Everyone of my friends in the age of 30's have used the book less and less over the past 5 yrs.

    Besides like mentioned many times above, most of the businesses locally do not sell online to local customers. They are researched by local customers for their numbers, hours of operation, location, etc. So, again that tells us that you would want to have atleast your business listed within the top 3 positions of google places, we already know as marketers that people click those listings the most and do not really research the rest. It is almost like the YP, people see these damn large full page ads and then they call them first. And the listings in the yp's are in alpha' order, whereas on the net they are listed in other ways(seo).

    I might have gotten off track here, but I own 2 small businesses, and I hate the yp's. I can also tell you that most small businesses around me do too, the only reason most of them advertise is of outside pressure of their competitors. I cant stand the fact that I or others have to pay anywhere from $75 - 2,000+ per month to be them. You can not really measure the results. Oh, and that is probably why, YP's have really been advertising the fact of putting your business online thru their site(yellowpages.com) because they know as well, people are online ALOT!


    I know some of you are going to flame me for my opinion, but its what I feel.


    Tommy
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  • Profile picture of the author www_retireonme_com
    Oops, 1 more thing.

    something that works against phonebooks is 'attraction'

    In Internet Marketing they teach you about 'attraction marketing' , with a phone book, I do not think you can position yourself or attract as many clients as a website can or video about yourself on your website,etc. Attraction = more customers.

    just another 2 cents
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  • Profile picture of the author jsherloc
    I guess I'm just waiting to hear about all of the YP-success stories from small to medium sized business in my area....I have not heard many. I mean, if there is some underlying business "growth" strategies (that we haven't already established in this debate) that solely revolve around YP usage, once again, I am all ears as I'm sure others here are too.

    IMO, They will be busy playing "catch up" for the next half-decade at least by trying to get people signed up on their online crap. Their problem is that they were once essentially "the solution" for most local businesses. No marketing thought or creative advertising necessary, just keep listing us every month and the people will find us! And it obviously worked well for them for awhile. There was not a PURPLE book, or a RED BOOK, there was ZERO competition for them for a LONG time. Who would have been dumb enough to step up against the YP in the 80s? Now, their audience (BIZ OWNERS) is online because THEIR audience is online "local consumers". And there are probably more local ONLINE data directories operating now than there are SEO firms in India.

    Make no mistaker they are a PLAYER in the game and will continue to be an advertising outlet for awhile and businesses will continue blindly spending their ad $$$ (though as mentioned some niches obviously still profit), but I'm really questioning how much longer before they are completely benched. A few of the other "local" players seem to be approaching things a bit more progressively...but even then...they are truly a dime a dozen on the Internet....and Google primarily.

    I mean, how do you expect to experience true longterm growth by "aggregating and listing local business information" on the Internet when you are now essentially competing against the largest local data aggregator on the planet? I can assure most that you will get more bang for your buck working and spending $$$ WITHIN the largest search engine, rather than working AROUND it, all to be essentially INCLUDED in it after all is said and done? I'm just not seeing a clear longterm future for this stuff....how many online directories do we need? How many does Google need? They've got a lot more business/consumer data than the YP I'd wager at this point...That could be a good or a bad thing depending upon who you ask.


    - Jim
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  • Profile picture of the author twoblind
    Hi As far as I am concerned, the phone books are dead. I dont even read them anymore. Its so much easier to jump online and look for numbers that way. In addition My wife is totally blind, so can you imagine the garbage she would have to go through to use a phone book?

    in addition, I have an offline client that is using the phone book now and he does get sales from it, but with the cost of advertising so high and the fact that the phone book companies lock you in to a contract. he is not even breaking even on the cost of being in the phone book.

    To me how many people use the phone book is not the issue. Instead we should consider how much these poor business owners are paying for it

    Just my two cents worth.
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  • Profile picture of the author vip-ip
    I think it would be interesting to hear from non-US offliners from countries where they don't have Yellow Pages type phone books. How do they get business?

    Best Regards,
    vip-ip ...
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  • Profile picture of the author jsherloc
    Yeah I am really curious about the other major international markets. UK, Australia, Japan, SK, India, etc. You'd really have to look at the major metros in those areas to even do a slight comparison though...

    - Jim
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  • Profile picture of the author simpsondavid123
    About yellow pages as i suppose, 30% of the whole internet based business owner were make their earning through it. Yellow pages is short and simple way to earn online for anyone.
    Any more suggestion or question would be much appreciated.
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  • Profile picture of the author Amir Luis
    I can't believe I am just seeing this thread.....

    I have a friend that is a Yellow Book Sales Manager. I know exactly what they do.... and how they do it...

    I can't believe people actually think that a LARGE organization like this would just die off. They have the market research to know everyone is turning to the internet.

    They give print ads away for free so they can sell thier SEO, Social Media, and various other IM packages.

    They also do things that you or I could never afford NOT to do starting out in this business.


    If you think the Yellow Pages are Dead... you might want to do a little marketplace research. You will find that all the major YellowPage directories have switched their focus a couple of years back to ONLINE Marketing. We are not our only competition. If you don't know what your competition is doing... and your not willing to do the same thing...

    Your peice of the pie... just got a WHOLE LOT smaller.

    I am willing to do what they do. And I do so.....

    Haven't felt a bump one.

    Just one... i call big bird... Yellowbook360 builds 15,000 websites a month. How many do you build?

    They are one of the few companies that have a wholesale partnership with Google. Do you have that?

    They have a team of 20 people in each area selling SEO and Web Marketing Services... Do You?

    Better start doing what they are doing if you want to succeed.
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    • Profile picture of the author jsherloc
      I understand that they are an enormous player and will continue to be (my guess is 10 yrs tops), but I have honestly not heard more than 3 semi-successful (if you could even call it that) stories from biz owners in the past few years.

      Still, even with their enormous sales force and "relationship" with Google (doesn't seem to help them where it really matters in the high-competition SERPs), I do not see them as a threat.

      I can understand where you are coming from Amir, but I also believe that attempting to replicate or do what they do is just going to make things harder for you or others trying to do it in the longrun IMO. At this point, just about anyone can put up a template'd local page, inclouding biz owners...and they are becoming increasingly aware of this. The YP is selling useless commodities (IMO), and they are FANTASTIC at it. So I agree they can be seen as competition, but only if you are cranking out crappy template'd sites with no advertising ROI in mind. They are just like every other dick and harry designing websites in yourtown, USA....except they have gajillions of dollars to hound biz owners and work the "numbers" game.

      Question, for those who do not see the YP as dying out in the next 10 years, where exactly do you seem them? Just ranking local companies with solid SEO, etc? Like I mentioned, there are more online data directories than SEO firms in India....unless they have a plan to TAKE OVER the first page of SERPS like those of us SEO'ers and keep you there, all while using great direct-response marketing and excellent offpage/onpage SEO tactics, etc....well I don't seem them being anything for MOST of us to worry about. This has just been my experience in my area, as mentioned, other localities are different.

      I don't design websites for a living for the very reasons you stated (they build thousands daily and sell thousands daily. Crank n Bank n MAYBE RANK?...no thanks) I don't try to work with every single business in my area like these guys hounding them daily on the phones do. I pick specific business that meet my own qualifications, and go from there. Often times they have been using the YP for over a decade...still not too many "happy" business owners raving about their great ROI.

      So, where do you see the YP in 10 years?

      - Jim
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      • Profile picture of the author Amir Luis
        Originally Posted by jsherloc View Post

        I don't design websites for a living for the very reasons you stated (they build thousands daily and sell thousands daily. Crank n Bank n MAYBE RANK?...no thanks) - Jim
        That was freakin' hilarious....

        You rock Jim.


        Where do I see them? I see them exactly where they are now. Doing the same things they are doing. The only reason... and I mean the one and only reason I push webdesign is to provide myself a quality, HOT lead for other services.

        I am not in the web design business. I am in the results business. My USP compared to "the other guys" is 5 direct response marketing principles included in the content with a strong call to action.

        If I am to go into a client meeting with the intention of making money... I won't be as successful as going in thinking...

        "How can I help these guys grow?"
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        • Profile picture of the author jsherloc
          Originally Posted by Amir Luis View Post

          That was freakin' hilarious....

          You rock Jim.


          Where do I see them? I see them exactly where they are now. Doing the same things they are doing. The only reason... and I mean the one and only reason I push webdesign is to provide myself a quality, HOT lead for other services.

          I am not in the web design business. I am in the results business. My USP compared to "the other guys" is 5 direct response marketing principles included in the content with a strong call to action.

          If I am to go into a client meeting with the intention of making money... I won't be as successful as going in thinking...

          "How can I help these guys grow?"
          You're right. We are all doing this for charity here above any type of monetary stability.

          Where did I ever say that I am not trying to grow a business with what I am doing? I would hope we are all in the results business here first and foremost. If not, they won't last, and most of us on here are certainly aware of this fact. I agree with you that a website is obviously the starting point for it all as far as IM. But I choose not to market myself WITH THE WEBSITE DESIGN FIRST before the "results and better ad roi, etc" thing you mentioned.

          But my primary point is pretty much exactly what you said as well: "I see them exactly where they are now". If that is the case for most here with intensive IM/direct response/SEO/etc backgrounds...well then they shouldn't be too much to worry about. Once again, my opinion and experiences...and coming from my location. Results vary.

          - Jim
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      • Profile picture of the author JamieSEO
        Originally Posted by jsherloc View Post

        The YP is selling useless commodities (IMO), and they are FANTASTIC at it. So I agree they can be seen as competition, but only if you are cranking out crappy template'd sites with no advertising ROI in mind. They are just like every other dick and harry designing websites in yourtown, USA....except they have gajillions of dollars to hound biz owners and work the "numbers" game.

        I don't design websites for a living for the very reasons you stated (they build thousands daily and sell thousands daily. Crank n Bank n MAYBE RANK?...no thanks) I don't try to work with every single business in my area like these guys hounding them daily on the phones do. I pick specific business that meet my own qualifications, and go from there. Often times they have been using the YP for over a decade...still not too many "happy" business owners raving about their great ROI.
        You crack me up Jim

        And you also made a very good point - they play the numbers by approaching a huge number of prospects and then trying to sell them on something that USED TO BE great.

        I have been with my clients trying not to laugh my ass off while a Yellow Pages rep has been pitching to them.

        For a business what matters is ROI.

        When spending $10k on marketing that year with me instead of over $26k just for their Yellow Pages ad gets them the same number of sales or more, it is just a total no-brainer.
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  • Profile picture of the author Iemagine
    I agree with Chad. The yellow pages are dying. In my area the only way you learn about a new place is if its word of mouth or on the radio. When I'm trying to find out about a new place or get directions to a particular store I can't find what I'm looking for. I can't believe that the majority of the businesses in my area do not have a web presence. I mean its good for me because I can cold call them which I have been doing. Have you ever wanted to find a new place or particular store and you happen to open the yellow pages to find it. First you have to sift through all that small print if they don't have adspace on the page, then you get an address. Ok well you are back to square one because you don't have a map or any information besides a name, phone number and address. I guess I'm just different I don't know but when I need information I go to the internet everytime. I hate having to track or paper trail stores. I'ts irritating. Sorry I guess I just needed to vent. Business owners really need to upgrade.
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  • Profile picture of the author sfossy
    No its not dead for me, local business enquiry comes from the yellow pages regularly and some bulk orders also comes from there.
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