.mobi vs m.

15 years ago

Angela,

I am still trying to get my first mobile client but I have built some mobile sites for reference up to now. My personal preference is to go with m. subdomain name, simply because it is easier to type, doesn't cost anything and is preferred by many large-scale companies. Actually, unless the client asks specifically, I don't see a reason to register another domain name and host it separately. My aim is to reduce all the costs at the client side as much as possible.

Having said that, it may not be the best route for you. You might want to get .mobi domains and charge for hosting, it's all up to you. But, educating your clients about what they really need and what they don't will be a big step towards building trust.

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noangel 15 years ago

Thank you Nail,

That is a very thoughtful answer.
Do you have any idea what you are likely to charge for a mobile site?

Angela
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Nail Yener

15 years ago

Angela, there are a number of price tags floating around and I am doing test on this at the moment. It could be anything between $150 and $400 for smaller websites with less functionalities. $250 is a good figure for a simple 5-7 page mobile site. It all depends on how much value the clients see in this and the requirements they ask. Also the quality of your work is another factor.

If you ever need any technical help or things like that, I will gladly help.

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Quentin

15 years ago

Hi Angela

I go with m.yourdomain.com and this is why.

YouTube - ‪Does indexing a mobile website...

As for charging we charge anything from $200 to many thousands depending on how many pages etc. Generally the average is $350 to $500

Q

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Nail Yener 15 years ago

Originally Posted by Quentin

Hi Angela

I go with m.yourdomain.com and this is why.

YouTube - ‪Does indexing a mobile website create a duplicate content issues?‬&rlm;

Q

Quentin, although I go with m. too, in my opinion that video doesn't justify choosing m. over .mobi. In fact, I couldn't find any justification, if there is, up to now.

Matt says that you should have your mobile version on a separate URL(m. is just an example he gives there) and allow mobile crawlers access to it and add the necessary Doctype declarations so that your mobile site will be treated as a mobile site.

Besides, Google is using a directory like /m/ for their mobile version: (http://www.google.com/m/)
If m. was a best practice according to Google, I guess they would go for it as well.

Nail
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- Luke Bishop 15 years ago
  
  Mobi's perform better in the searches I'd imagine.
  
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Adrian John

15 years ago

Most of the companies use m.comapany.com for their mobile website.
Google also suugest this to avoid the duplicate content penalties.So we better listen to them right?
So that's what i suggest you to use as that is what i use for all my clients.

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Quentin

15 years ago

Well a subdomain is treated like a seperate domain and we can rank quite high on subdomains. We have set up a few blogs in subdomains that rank first page.

It really has more to do with content and keywords than extension

Also see m.youtube.com m.facebook.com and I think they are going with the m.domain thing.

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noangel

15 years ago

So do you guys think that it's not a good idea to charge for hosting?

I have some Real Estate clients who will require that their sites be updated on a regular basis with new properties for sale and for lease. How much would you suggest charging monthly for that? I know if depends on the properties, etc, but I am looking for a ballpark figure.

Thanks,
Angela

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Nail Yener

15 years ago

Originally Posted by noangel

So do you guys think that it's not a good idea to charge for hosting?

I have some Real Estate clients who will require that their sites be updated on a regular basis with new properties for sale and for lease. How much would you suggest charging monthly for that? I know if depends on the properties, etc, but I am looking for a ballpark figure.

Thanks,
Angela

Angela, if they already have a hosting account then I would't charge for hosting because I don't want to get flamed once they learn that they didn't have to pay extra for hosting their mobile site.

If you are considering charging them monthly, then make an agreement on the number of updates before you start. 1 update/mo, 5 updates/mo, 30 updates/mo, etc. Then you can come to a figure based on the number of updates. It is really difficult to predict a ballpark figure without knowing how you will design the site and how much effort it will require to make that update.

It could be $10/update, if it will take 5 minutes of your time. On the other hand, it could be $50/update, if it will take an hour of your time. It all depends on how much your time is worth. But again, for simple updates, $25/update could be a nice figure.

Nail

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scarab

15 years ago

Originally Posted by noangel

So do you guys think that it's not a good idea to charge for hosting?

I have some Real Estate clients who will require that their sites be updated on a regular basis with new properties for sale and for lease. How much would you suggest charging monthly for that? I know if depends on the properties, etc, but I am looking for a ballpark figure.

Thanks,
Angela

Are you looking for some scripts that will pull in the new data to the mobile websites? If so I have a good working script that pulls a new post from a WP site and updates the HTML mobile site. I'll be glad to share.

I only us WP and I know that most real estate sites are html so I don't know how the scripts will work in that aspect but I am sure you cold hack the code to work some how. It can be easily modified to pull as many recent updates or posts as you want.

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allegrity

15 years ago

I am going with m. I agree with pretty much everything Nail has stated above.

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safe as houses

15 years ago

So if you use m.company.com does that mean you have to buy a another domain, or can it be added as a sub domain, Mick.

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Luke Bishop 15 years ago

Originally Posted by safe as houses

So if you use m.company.com does that mean you have to buy a another domain, or can it be added as a sub domain, Mick.

Create a m. under your subdomain.
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Jay Moreno

15 years ago

it really depends on what type of access you will have to the clients hosting and what type of configuration they have set up... often is the case the client wont have access to ftp let alone their control panel!

in an ideal situation having the option to do what you want is great!

has anyone noticed that when you search google from a mobile device or switched your user agent to a mobile device that google now presents an option for the user to link to the site and have google convert it ready for mobile.... it often looks a mess... just like it does with a lot of these autobuilders... however i am sure you will find some business owners using this as an excuse not to have a proper mobile site built.... thats their loss but still - what was extremely annoying was to find that it format sites that have a mobile ready version!!!!!

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QRickit

15 years ago

Since mobile sites are made for use on mobile phones, the shorter URL would be more convenient for mobile users who have to text/type in the URL. (I have fat fingers so I always have a hard time texting on my iPhone).

I have a .mobi domain QRickit.mobi and just auto-redirect visitors to a directory in my QRickit.com website so I don't have to pay extra for hosting another domain. It doesn't hurt to have several domain names/suffixes that all point to the same thing.

I am from Japan and most people just scan the QR Code to go to a mobile site so it doesn't really matter what the URL is because it just opens up in the browser and the user doesn't have to worry about or even see the URL. I am trying to promote the use of QR Codes outside of Japan to make it easier and quicker for mobile users to get content on their phones without having to text, type or call.

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danielkanuck

15 years ago

I would use "m."

Google's gmail mobile site is something like m.gmail.com. As soon as i saw that, i knew that it was for the mobile version of their site.

I think if someone was surfing online on their phone and saw a familar site except for the "m." in front of it, i think they would recognize that it's for the mobile version of the website, and that it will show up appropriately on their phones. So go with the "m." prefix.

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g4r3th 15 years ago

Great tip for creating a mobile website, using the m. saves getting a new domain, cheers.
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noangel

15 years ago

But by the same token, if you saw gmail.mobi you would not have to think twice
about what it means!

If one is doing regular updates for the client, would it make any difference to the
access of the site if it's m. or .mobi?

Also, when you say $25 an update... what does that mean exactly? If I am given
25 properties to enter as an update does that mean $25 in total... per time they
ask for an update, regardless if it's 1 property or 100 properties?

Angela

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smarks70

15 years ago

Originally Posted by noangel

But by the same token, if you saw gmail.mobi you would not have to think twice
about what it means!

If one is doing regular updates for the client, would it make any difference to the
access of the site if it's m. or .mobi?

Also, when you say $25 an update... what does that mean exactly? If I am given
25 properties to enter as an update does that mean $25 in total... per time they
ask for an update, regardless if it's 1 property or 100 properties?

Angela

Hi Angela, Just my two cents. I am currently working with a Real Estate agent here in the states. We just entered into a yearly contract based on up to 10 mobile one page sites per month including any updates for $347 per month. I know this may seem low to some warriors, but it got my foot in the door with a large Broker. This particular agent went ahead and bit on my offer of paying for a year in advance to get two months free, so the total in my pocket was $3470. Much needed at the time I might add

Hope this helps in some small way.

Steve

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noangel 15 years ago

I found this statement in favour of .mobi domains:
--------------------------------------------------

On behalf of dotMobi -- the company behind the .mobi domain -- let me tell you that .mobi is the way to go for several reasons, including:

1. .mobi domains offer better search engine performance. Search engine marketing in North America last year stood at $12.2 billion and is forecast to grow to $25 billion by 2011 and it is now widely agreed that search engine performance is crucial to the success of any business. Because every .mobi domain registered gets its own entry in the Internet Zone File (the files that search engines use to start their crawls) your site will automatically perform better than if you use any other naming convention. Additionally search engines detect when searches are being made from mobile devices and prioritize their results accordingly. Because .mobi sites are high-quality, made-for-mobile sites, they are automatically brought to the top of the mobile search results.

2. .mobi domains are white-listed by network level transcoders. Designing great mobile sites takes time and effort to get the most out of the limited screen resolution and navigation mechanisms of mobile phones. Having invested in creating your mobile presence the last thing you want is a third-party transcoder modifying your site ... but this is exactly what happens when you use a non standard domain name. By industry convention, .mobi sites are automatically white-listed by all network level transcoders so you can be 100% sure that your site will render as you intended on every mobile device.

3. .mobi is emerging as the de facto standard for mobile internet domains. The mobile web is growing exponentially recording 700% growth in the past year. However with this growth comes the need for standardisation to allow the mobile web to continue to develop. We have seen this numerous times in the past where competing technology standards have delayed widespread adoption. In the 70s it was VCR vs Betamax, and in the 1980s it was Digital Audio Tape vs MiniDisc vs CD. In both of these cases it was the format that got in the lead first, and enjoyed the widest industry support, that eventually triumphed. Today .mobi enjoys this same position as the most prevalent mobile domain in use and was founded by a veritable who’s who of the mobile internet.

4. .mobi names are designed for mobile use. Despite having close to 1 million names the reality is that a lot of great names are still available and having short names is essential for mobile where entering long URL’s is cumbersome on mobile devices. This is great news for companies who did not get their first preference .com address. With the mobile web experiencing treble digit growth year-on-year, and forecast to continue doing so, creating a memorable mobile presence now represents a huge opportunity for future growth.

And this site, sets out the Pros and the Cons of both:

http://notixtech.com/blog/mobi-versu...mobile-website

The bottom line in their observation is that there are 2 schools of thought and that m.domain may be in the lead, but that a .mobi site will display better on the phones.

And to answer anyone who said that typing in the m. domain is easier on a mobile phone, that should not be an issue at all, because one should only need to type in the original domain name and then be automatically directed to the mobile version if you are on a mobile phone.

They also say that flipping between the mobile and desktop version is easier with a m. domain and also there is SEO already built in, whereas .mobi is a new domain.

I am very conflicted... I like what I am reading about m. but I am concerned when they say it won't present as well on phones due to carrier transcoding.

Angela
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- james96 15 years ago
  
  .mobi helps search engines recognize it easily that it is a mobile website.
  
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- Nail Yener 15 years ago
  
  1. .mobi domains offer better search engine performance.
  
  BS #1
  I really would like to believe this, but is there a proof of that? I won't believe it unless at least one search engine expert (like Matt Cutts) confirms that.
  
  2. .mobi domains are white-listed by network level transcoders.
  
  BS #2
  Do I need to explain?
  
  3. .mobi is emerging as the de facto standard for mobile internet domains.
  
  BS #3
  Is this the same reason why we see more m., /m, /mobile or /iphone rather than .mobi?
  
  4. .mobi names are designed for mobile use.
  
  BS #4
  You cannot design a domain extension for specific use. It only represents what the owner does with it.
  
  their observation is that m.domain may be in the lead, but that a .mobi site will display better on the phones.
  
  BS #5
  All the popular sites like FaceBook, Google, Amazon, Twitter, Booking etc. have a non-.mobi mobile site and they all just display fine. Really this is not a true statement. I have been developing m. mobile sites and I can assure you there is no such thing as "a .mobi site will better display on the phones".
  
  I am very conflicted... I like what I am reading about m. but I am concerned when they say it won't present as well on phones due to carrier transcoding.
  
  Angela
  
  Angela, I can really understand your concerns as I was at your position before. But after reading a lot of m. vs .mobi comparisons I was able to see the picture clearly. I hope my above answers will help you decide.
  
  Let's put an end to this discussion as it is totally a preference whether to go with m. or .mobi. My purpose is not to speak ill of .mobi, but I am really annoyed the way they market it and the way they don't speak of the turth.
  
  After all, there is no reason for me to pay an extra $20/year for a .mobi domain if I already have a domain for my website.
  
  Thanks
  
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xanders

15 years ago

I'd go for m.domain too.

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noangel

15 years ago

QRickit I have sent you an email from your website, please look out for it.

Thanks,
Angela

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Jay Moreno

15 years ago

fyi as Nail mentioned you can also use domain.com/m thats even simpler to setup!

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ganesh

15 years ago

I have tried both of them. I prefer to use .mobi when the content is unique and limited. They rank better for me but if there is too much content and if it is the same as on the main site, I go with m.

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Sondor

15 years ago

Hi Angela,

When you consider the source you quoted, it's kinda hard to take it seriously?

1) They are suggesting Googles own mobile-bot gives preference to .mobi sites when Google itself doesn't use .mobi extensions? I find that rather ballsy of 'em.

2) They have to be 'white-listed' or they wouldn't work. .m and the /m/ conventions are also 'white-listed' so to speak.

3) Yes, they do a damn good job marketing .mobi. /tip of the hat to .mobi for it too!

4) .m and /m/ aren't designed for mobile use? They only say '.mobi is designed for mobile use'. Yup, sure is. Doesn't make it the best solution for mobile use or that others aren't as well

There isn't any evidence that .mobi displays better on phones. I'd check that statement. What the article suggested is the .mobi optimized sites are mobile optimized so they of course display fine on any mobile phone or network.

Nobody has suggested any standard website is mobile optimized. The debate is .mobi vs other mobile optimized sites and in that case, .mobi does NOT display better or have any advantage.

To rephrase, .mobi has the advantage over many non-optimzed sites, but does NOT have an advantage over other mobile site builds.

Frankly, I'll take .mobi seriously when reputable companies whom I trust like HostGator offer their domains for sale. HostGator will host them, but they don't sell 'em.

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alexei_aus

15 years ago

this would really depend on setup of your mobile platform rather than anything else

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Jay Moreno

15 years ago

i have been doing mobile development since way before the .mobi tld even became available and thought at the time it was a great initiative to make the mobile web more recognizable identifying the .mobi specifically for use with mobile devices...

but with regards to the comments on SEO do a google mobile search right now using your mobile device or mobile user agent and i am pretty sure you wont find any .mobi domains ranking above .coms... google does not appear to show a preference to .mobi domains over .coms for mobile results for example i just did searches for dog training, dog grooming, mortgages, plumbers... zero .mobi showed in the serps for any of those searches... and i went 5 pages deep out of curiosity too...

of course dotmobi will say go with a .mobi domain tld dont forget they are somewhat biased in the matter! lol

if anything .mobi only shows the human end user its a more suitable to viewed on a mobile device it appears google doesnt really care about the domain...

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Russell Hall

15 years ago

Originally Posted by ukescuba

i have been doing mobile development since way before the .mobi tld even became available and thought at the time it was a great initiative to make the mobile web more recognizable identifying the .mobi specifically for use with mobile devices...

but with regards to the comments on SEO do a google mobile search right now using your mobile device or mobile user agent and i am pretty sure you wont find any .mobi domains ranking above .coms... google does not appear to show a preference to .mobi domains over .coms for mobile results for example i just did searches for dog training, dog grooming, mortgages, plumbers... zero .mobi showed in the serps for any of those searches... and i went 5 pages deep out of curiosity too...

of course dotmobi will say go with a .mobi domain tld dont forget they are somewhat biased in the matter! lol

if anything .mobi only shows the human end user its a more suitable to viewed on a mobile device it appears google doesnt really care about the domain...

I've enjoyed this thread as it has some constructive comments but this one by you sticks out as you've evidently been into the mobile net scene for a while.

I think your closing comment sums up the whole issue/conversation very succinctly "if anything .mobi only shows the human end user its a more suitable to viewed on a mobile device it appears google doesnt really care about the domain..."

Thanks and best regards,
Russell Hall

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Sondor

15 years ago

I stumbled upon this response on the topic from Google, so thought I'd share their comments:

John Mueller (John Mu from Google) - "If you have "smartphone" content (which we see as normal web-content, as it's generally a normal HTML page, just tweaked in layout for smaller displays) you can use the rel=canonical to point to your desktop version. This helps us to focus on the desktop version for web-search. When users visit that desktop version with a smartphone, you can redirect them to the mobile version. This works regardless of the URL structure, so you don't need to use subdomains / subdirectories for smartphone-mobile sites. Even better however is to use the same URLs and to show the appropriate version of the content without a redirect "

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.mobi vs m.

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