Know your service and do it well.

11 replies
I've just been witness to ONE of the most horrific train wrecks of a site I've ever seen. Not my client - a fellow marketer's. I wanted to vomit. And no I'm not sharing it.

The point is their client paid a lot of money for a joke of a website.

I see this so much. Not only in web sites but also in other online services like SEO and Social Media.

It's easy to see why some clients feel the service they bought has no value. That's because it was done badly in the first place.

I've had to pick up the broken pieces of several bad web authors and honestly *shakes head* it's getting old. And I know I'm not the only one here that feels that way.

If you can't do one service well and know it inside out just leave it alone. Don't even charge for it until you have experience (and yes that does mean doing some test exercises). I've done that a few times when I've wanted to know how everything works. Ask some business owners who may need some extra SEO if you can build a complimentary site and rank it - for free. If they like it and it does the job you've got yourself a reference for your LinkedIn.

Even if you're outsourcing know exactly what you're supposed to be outsourcing.

That's my mini rant for the day.

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#bad #offline #service
  • Profile picture of the author Danny Cutts
    Haha...

    dont even start.... I have about 1 train wreck a week to sort through... stupid companies selling ****ty SEO packages that do nothing...

    Web designers telling clients BS about SEO.... then I have to come in and rip it all to bits which normally means I have to re build the site..

    This industry is full of chancers and wannabes but those that can walk the walk will be around a whole lot longer living in the bigger houses and driving the flasher cars :-) than the people who simply can not compete with the big boys..... or girls
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    • Profile picture of the author Vanessa Reece
      Danny I think there are some chancers yes, and I also think there are those who run before they can walk.

      In the beginning I stuck to putting up websites and setting up social media. Those things I knew. SEO was my real learning experience. I thought I knew but I didn't know everything. I'm not too proud to say that. Which is why I never offered SEO in the very beginning.

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    • Profile picture of the author Adrian John
      Originally Posted by Danny Cutts View Post

      Haha...

      dont even start.... I have about 1 train wreck a week to sort through... stupid companies selling ****ty SEO packages that do nothing...

      Web designers telling clients BS about SEO.... then I have to come in and rip it all to bits which normally means I have to re build the site..

      This industry is full of chancers and wannabes but those that can walk the walk will be around a whole lot longer living in the bigger houses and driving the flasher cars :-) than the people who simply can not compete with the big boys..... or girls
      And why do u thing there are LOTS of "stupid companies selling ****ty SEO packages that do nothing..." ?
      Maybe because of the 10s rehashed WSO's selling hopes that shows up everyday here?
      Hype methods and theories sold here but many who take advantage of those 2-3000 newbies in here that buys everything and do s**tty jobs applying what they've just learned?

      The stupid companies,chancers and wannabes are these newbies, our fellow warriors, trying their best to make some money after they bought an $1000 overnight course for only $17
      Really?
      Would you sell an method that makes you $1000 in 24h/week for only $7,$17 or whatever?
      I don't think anyone would.That's BS.Theory ...

      How many WSO have you bought and made you the money they claimed? How many of them offered something new? How many offered value for you business?

      I only know 4 or 5 max WSO's that worth the price! An Yes, most they're not $7.

      I am just hoping that these newbies will STOP chasing after the hype, dreams sold all over the place and actually buy a product that has reviews from people that really tried the methods sold and can prove that they are successful, cause anyone can read an pdf and give opinion(that will become an RAVE Review=bs ).T
      But hey, that's marketing so ... it's something that will come back through karma some day.

      The best thing for you is that in the end you are the one that will get to fix the "stupid companies" mistakes and get money from the clients too so i don't think you would have anything to complain for.

      I'm not accusing anyone cause we all want to make some money in a way or another.
      But complaining about the the train wrecks, done by newbies who learned from the things that plenty people support/sell here isn't fair from my opinion. They can't do it as good as some real offliner like maybe you are, cause you've got experience, you've met people, you passed the newbie stage long time ago, you are the real deal, they're just the wannabes.
      They deserve little respect too.

      Best luck
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      • Profile picture of the author Vanessa Reece
        Originally Posted by banditu View Post

        And why do u thing there are LOTS of "stupid companies selling ****ty SEO packages that do nothing..." ?
        Maybe because of the 10s rehashed WSO's selling hopes that shows up everyday here?
        Hype methods and theories sold here but many who take advantage of those 2-3000 newbies in here that buys everything and do s**tty jobs applying what they've just learned?

        The stupid companies,chancers and wannabes are these newbies, our fellow warriors, trying their best to make some money after they bought an $1000 overnight course for only $17
        Really?
        Would you sell an method that makes you $1000 in 24h/week for only $7,$17 or whatever?
        I don't think anyone would.That's BS.Theory ...

        How many WSO have you bought and made you the money they claimed? How many of them offered something new? How many offered value for you business?

        I only know 4 or 5 max WSO's that worth the price! An Yes, most they're not $7.

        I am just hoping that these newbies will STOP chasing after the hype, dreams sold all over the place and actually buy a product that has reviews from people that really tried the methods sold and can prove that they are successful, cause anyone can read an pdf and give opinion(that will become an RAVE Review=bs ).T
        But hey, that's marketing so ... it's something that will come back through karma some day.

        The best thing for you is that in the end you are the one that will get to fix the "stupid companies" mistakes and get money from the clients too so i don't think you would have anything to complain for.

        I'm not accusing anyone cause we all want to make some money in a way or another.
        But complaining about the the train wrecks, done by newbies who learned from the things that plenty people support/sell here isn't fair from my opinion. They can't do it as good as some real offliner like maybe you are, cause you've got experience, you've met people, you passed the newbie stage long time ago, you are the real deal, they're just the wannabes.
        They deserve little respect too.

        Best luck

        I actually needed some time to think of how to respond to this without coming across as harsh - which I still might do.

        Here's the bottom line. A WSO or any training material is purely there as knowledge based product. It doesn't get you out of bed in the morning hungry to succeed in your offline business. It will not spoon feed you every-day tough-knocks-business-knowledge. The kind of stuff you only learn when you actually get out on the field.

        A WSO will not give you that inner drive nor confidence to move from sending out a few emails to actually walking into a business and saying, 'Hi, here I am... ' or picking up the phone to do the same. It may tell you the process but it will not knock on your door and make you take the action.

        A WSO will not stop the sweat building up on your brow as you stand in a room full of serious business owners to deliver your very first 60 second pitch. Or provide you with the confidence to speak in front of several hundred people at a seminar.

        A WSO will not teach you integrity and care you must demonstrate with every client and prospect regardless of how they treat you.

        Believe it or not there are countless people in offline marketing who've never heard of this forum nor WSO's and that doesn't stop them going out there and getting clients and for some of them treating the clients like a fast buck meal ticket. There are rip of merchants in every single service industry so honestly I cannot for the life of me understand why you would bring WSO's into this?

        When you get a prospect come to you saying they've spent their savings opening a business and have been totally ripped off with a terrible website and the only keyword they are ranking for is their own name you come back to me and tell me how great that is. Because honestly first and foremost it can be really quite a task to persuade that prospect your business is different and that your fees are fair - because lots of haggling can happen when they've been ripped off (they don't want to be ripped off again).

        Not so long ago before I even thought of launching a WSO I came onto this sub-forum and asked if there was anyone who had any questions about offline marketing because I'd gained a lot from being here and I'd gone off and built a good business. One person responded. Yet you still see some people asking the same thing here they've done from the beginning.

        Much of my working a business knowledge did not come for free and like anyone giving advice there are times to give away knowledge for free and a time to say there is a fee to learn from me. As a coach would.

        This may push some angry buttons but to heck with it - there are people on here who will never succeed in building a business as an offline consultant. Because they're still sitting on this forum looking for the magic pill or will be waiting for an easy route to do something. There are some really quick money making services yes, but to build long term business success you need a plan.

        A successful business where you're working with local businesses takes trust, assertion, integrity, fast thinking in some testing situations and an absolute faith that you are delivering the best possible service for your client. It also takes communication and there are some people here who don't even want to leave the safety net of the seat behind their computers.

        The 'chancers' as Danny calls them will take a piece of the cake because chancers first know how to get clients - but in the long run they leave a lot of business owners wondering if there are any decent marketers out there. Once bitten twice shy and my point was this does not make our job easy nor does it represent offline marketers well in general. Like I said, it's not nice to hear someone has been duped. I don't count WSO's in that - we're all adult enough to figure out there are no magic pills. Well some of us are.

        Btw, this week I've been invited to speak at a conference about businesses using social media - I didn't get asked by the organizers to do that because I simply read a WSO. I got it because I got my tail into gear and have a rep of doing a good job when I do.

        I was a wannabe once too and the one thing I didn't do was blame anybody for my lack of knowledge. I got off this forum and took the knowledge it gave me - free or paid and ran with it. I suggest some people here need to man up and do the same if they want to make a business in offline marketing succeed.

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  • Profile picture of the author hotlinkz
    Hey...what's wrong with being a "train wreck cleaner upper"?

    It's a profitable niche and it goes way beyond website design
    services. These type accounts bring in premium revenue. Charge
    fairly - but charge accordingly.

    Another big plus; each time you turn a disgruntled client into a
    happy client - you contribute to the overall positive perception
    of the entire web design and SEO industries.
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    • Profile picture of the author Vanessa Reece
      Originally Posted by hotlinkz View Post

      Hey...what's wrong with being a "train wreck cleaner upper"?

      It's a profitable niche and it goes way beyond website design
      services. These type accounts bring in premium revenue. Charge
      fairly - but charge accordingly.

      Another big plus; each time you turn a disgruntled client into a
      happy client - you contribute to the overall positive perception
      of the entire web design and SEO industries.
      You make very fair points my friend. Of course you are correct. I tend to think of the large headache cleaning up causes. :p

      I may beg to differ on the changing perception though. You get some excellent building companies, out there, for example, but you also get a lot of terrible ones. It's just rep and research that wins, not so much the general perception, in my opinion.

      Also in my heart I really feel for some of these people (clients) Yes, they should have investigated things but as you know many don't know the technical aspects.

      I just don't like seeing people taken advantage of.

      V
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  • Profile picture of the author more control
    Basic message is give your users what they want.

    Many SEO agencies promise the world and yet fail to either understand the company or the industry and make the mistake of providing a packaged solution that does not add any UX for users.
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  • Profile picture of the author Danny Cutts
    Who mentioned anything about WSO's????

    Not me....
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  • Profile picture of the author Fernando Veloso
    True story:

    Last week had a meeting with a potential customer. He made a 3 hours trip to meet me in central Portugal. During our conversation he asked me if I could place his site on Top 10 for his keywords - I told him "probably, have to work on it - otherwise just shoot PPC and you're good to go."

    Thats when he told me the company that made his site promised him top 10 rankings in 2 months for 10 keywords - and we're talking about a high competition market, and one brand new website.

    So thats when he tells me he paid 3K !!! for his site. It's a 5 pages html website with no titles, headings, internal linking structure, no backlinks... nada. And he is (was) paying 125€ per month for "SEO" for over 1 year.

    And this is NOT the first train wreck we see - in fact, it's getting usual over here.

    Another customer called me this week cause yelooowiiissshh pagessss called him saying "they have a agreement with Google, Yahoo, Msn, etc and they can promise Top rankings - even better then his own company website"... - in fact I shared this story this week in here.

    This world is losing it - not only small companies and curious wannabes. Big companies are losing it big time.

    Just food for thought.
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    People make good money selling to the rich. But the rich got rich selling to the masses.
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    • Profile picture of the author Vanessa Reece
      Yes its shocking Fernando just how much business are getting ripped off for - and you're right, it's not just the small businesses either - large ones too.

      Did you explain to your prospect what he wasn't getting really for the 3k? I mean wow - 3K for what you've said is insane. I think this is where Karma comes in for that specific company.

      Another thing I've noticed is some businesses simply won't complain because they don't feel technically knowledgeable enough to do so. I mean it's hard to complain about something you don't understand. I think this where some offline marketing companies and individuals tend to take advantage.

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  • Profile picture of the author Fernando Veloso
    In the end this creates a unique opportunity for us to achieve two of the things I love the most with offline business owners:

    The chance to perform a ongoing top notch work and ask them for a testimonial with a couple pictures of me and them in their company.

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    People make good money selling to the rich. But the rich got rich selling to the masses.
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