Four Clients To Avoid

47 replies
I’ve come to identify the 4 clients I try to avoid when possible.

While these clients may represent businesses I can help, and they may be able to to pay my fees, I still either avoid or drop them if I see certain things happening.

Here’s a rundown: (of course YMMV)

1. “Know-It-All Ned”
For me personally, this is the most annoying. Know-it-all Ned seems to start out very nice, but even early there are usually hints that he has opinions on everything. …and slow but sure, opinions turn into ‘facts’…pseudo facts like, “Google ranks you higher for Flash” and ..”don’t you think we’re overdoing it with content?” …”who’s going to read all that?” Ned is happiest when he gets to tell you his opinion….and frequently answers my statements with, “…of course!” He’s an advertising expert, a Google expert and a business genius, while his own business is struggling.


2. " Fantasy Fred" – Most optimistic fellow you will ever meet! Believes every thing he’s ever read. This type is convinced that getting to the top of Google is a 2 week sprint, not a long term marathon. And, he usually imagines HUGE streams of traffic once he’s on page one of G. I once had a client who I did PPC for and he couldn’t believe he was only getting a handful of leads every week, since he just assumed thousands in his small town were looking for what he was selling.

3. "Lowball Louie"- Knows the price of everything and the value of nothing. He/she is often in a very cutthroat business themselves, and sees beating up the vendor on price as standard operating procedure.
Can be defensive when you try to inquire if they have a budget, and loves to bring up some lowball offer they received, just to see what your reaction is. All that aside, I still find if I can demonstrate value, these types can be won over.


4. "Undecided Elvira". I picked a female name, but just as many men display this pattern. Basically they cannot decide anything. …at least on their own. Everything must be run past the ‘authority figure’ in their world. On client needed is son at college to give his blessing to everything we did on his website. His son would send me chunks of text (obviously copied from his textbooks) telling me to ‘find a place to use this’ and usually my client, the dad, would listen to this.

Also some suggestions:
Try to do a little research on your prospect, if you sense any of these behaviors. If you have good relations with some other similar businesses, ask if they know the prospect, and have any opinions about him/her. You will have to do this discreetly.
Make sure the client knows what the project is to include, the timetable, and other details before you start. I always send an email after the meeting re-capping what was said/agreed to.
As much as it seems at odds, try not to take on new clients out of sheer desperation. Follow your instincts, and don’t take on clients you just don’t feel right about.
_____
Bruce NewMedia
#avoid #clients
  • Profile picture of the author Mary Wilhite
    Hi Bruce, I've been in sales for over 30 years and all I can say is I agree, you hit the nail on head. The only thing I wish for the "Undecided Elvira" you pick male's name instead of a females. But it true both sexist have this issue.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    "Lowball Louie"- Knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.


    I LOOOVE THAT!!!!

    Speaking along the same lines of my last post, you can subtly use your knowledge of these personality types in your pitch, as in "talking about them", when describing your day or how your business works...and incrementally kill half of your prospects objections before the close because he doesnt want to be classed in one of these groups...

    Believe it or not, its the subtle things like that that can make all the difference. Start using the customers inward dialogue. You can be having one conversation on the outside, but on the inside be saying "You dont want to be one of THOSE types do you..."?

    Bruce ALWAYS hits it on the head because he has been to the rodeo more than once. Always enjoy reading your posts Bruce. Thanks. I will use this stuff.

    NOBODY wants to be thought of as a lowball Louie once you have pointed out that you recognize them and have them type cast, the prospect knows how he will be classified if he gives that objection.

    You can tell a story about a person who knows the price of everything and value of nothing, and subconsciously warn your prospect ahead of time (pre objection stopper) that you are aware enough to know who you are talking to. Thats one excuse you wont hear at the close.

    He wont want to be any of those.
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  • Profile picture of the author Seantrepreneur
    Hi Bruce, I've been in sales for over 30 years and all I can say is I agree, you hit the nail on head. The only thing I wish for the "Undecided Elvira" you pick male's name instead of a females. But it true both sexist have this issue.
    He had a male names for the first 3?

    These are spot on! I have a Know it all Nancy AND a Fantasy Fred right now and it's killing me. I have to learn how to say no sometimes.
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  • Profile picture of the author Warrior Ben
    Bruce,

    This is a very excellent post! Many people who are just starting out in the business want to get any client they possibly can and don't really give thought to the follow-up that needs to take place. I have a few clients that contact me multiple times a week for seemingly unrelated things to the services I offer. Sometimes I think they just want to chat and have somebody to talk to!

    Now when I see warning signs of people like this, I actually shy away from closing them. It's not that I want to turn away deals, but I don't want to spend the time it takes to manage these difficult clients.

    Newbie Warriors... take note of the type of people Bruce outlines above. While it can be tempting to just get a client, you can end up spending a lot of time managing these types of people and down the road you'll realize the short term influx in cash is not worth the long term headaches!

    -Ben
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  • Profile picture of the author MissPatty
    Very interesting thread!

    I'll keep an eye on clients who present such behaviors closely.

    Thanks for sharing your experience @brucerby! Much appreciated.

    - Patty
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  • Profile picture of the author PPC-Coach
    Excellent post.

    Don't take on everyone, take on clients you like. You'll be far happier that way.
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  • Profile picture of the author sloanjim
    what about Fiercem Freddie. Who threatens to give you a Glasweegen kiss if you "bother" him again!
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  • Profile picture of the author jasonx2
    Originally Posted by brucerby View Post

    I’ve come to identify the 4 clients I try to avoid when possible.

    While these clients may represent businesses I can help, and they may be able to to pay my fees, I still either avoid or drop them if I see certain things happening.



    1. “Know-It-All Ned”
    2. "Fantasy Fred"
    3. "Lowball Louie"
    4. "Undecided Elvira"
    Geez, Whos left to sell to?

    "Submissive Sam"? (notice the gender neutral name.) ; - }
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    • I'll throw in one:

      Negative Norm- everything is bad. The market, the economy, his business, his home life. Everything you say is wrong. I mean everything. Like "Good morning!" "Cut with the good morning routine!" haha.

      Strangely, if you can hang in there, Negative Norm will spend money with you. He's not always a low-baller and he can be very successful.

      It's just how he parses the world.

      That said, it's a grind. You have to decide if it's worth the hassle!
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      Marketing is not a battle of products. It is a battle of perceptions.
      - Jack Trout
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  • Profile picture of the author SiteSmarty
    brucerby: Your points are proof you've been around a while. I agree with you. That's why I don't like phone, email or any other type of spam. If you spam you'll get 99% of the folks you describe.

    The key is to choose your clients wisely. When you do this, you'll be turning business away. Great list.
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    • Profile picture of the author BizGrabbers
      Originally Posted by SiteSmarty View Post

      brucerby: Your points are proof you've been around a while. I agree with you. That's why I don't like phone, email or any other type of spam. If you spam you'll get 99% of the folks you describe.

      The key is to choose your clients wisely. When you do this, you'll be turning business away. Great list.
      Hey SS, did you notice that your user name could be used for one of these types to avoid. Only talking about your name, not you, so please don't be offended.
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  • Profile picture of the author Fernando Veloso
    Lately (and maybe this is a national thing over here - Portugal) but it seems every business owner is a "google expert". And they love it!!!



    Last week had a guy telling me he didn't want UNIQUE CONTENT and SEO for his brand new ecommerce website - He just wanted a BOT to go banging his flashy green/red/yellow Hit Counter all day long, 24/7, and then Google brings the site to #1.

    Ahahahah!!! Priceless.

    Another genius decided to tell us our work was not professional and his wife wanted to have a chat with me, "cause she knows better then anyone how to achieve a great design - after all she sells printers and toners and does some stuff in MS Word"... Real words from the guy! LMAO

    At the end of the day I enjoy them all, they're just a step behind.

    :p
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  • Profile picture of the author MrSS
    Certainly agreed to the list of brucerby!
    Those clients are can be encounter even when you talk to them over the phone, setting appointment. I also encounter (hearing) those people like these:

    'Looking' > 'Get back' > 'Update' for nothing: this are people you already talked to, already sent a proposal, have some agreement and the final say is still pending. When you do follow up call(s) they will always say this "We are looking into it", "I will get back you on that", "We will give you update". Darn! After a long while the answer is still the same, suggestion? MOVE ON. Find another prospect.

    Not Interested: I bet you already how hint. Alright, this client is similar to “Know-It-All Ned”, they tend to know about everything. But the ultimate rebut you can say is "How could you be not interested to the things you never heard before? If you don't have time to spend for the thing that could actually benefit you business then you're losing business". Yes, this might be harsh.

    Thanks,
    MrSS
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  • Profile picture of the author angmoore
    ok how about Too Many Questions Quinn? - I had a client that had beyond basic questions that just went on an on. Had six emails in one day and had to tell her she was interferring with me getting her webiste done. It was not pleasant and after I got all of the set up done, I had to tell them to find someone else. It was a hard decision but it was the right one.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
    Bruce, by what means do you acquire clients? Telmarketing? Email? Postal? Outside sales?
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    • Profile picture of the author Bruce NewMedia
      Originally Posted by Rus Sells View Post

      Bruce, by what means do you acquire clients? Telmarketing? Email? Postal? Outside sales?
      Generally, by referral...then by direct mail, and personal visit and COI.
      I'm actually about to post an example of one approach that works very well for me....

      So, thanks for asking, Russ.

      NOTE: I think many of the posters here enjoy making up more funny names for these clients..lol :-)
      _____
      Bruce NewMedia
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      • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
        The reason I ask is because I think that many of these types of posts are from people who aren't usually meeting people face to face to pitch and close the deal.

        Know it all Ned can be changed into Humble Hal and,

        Fantasy Fred can be changed into Reality Ron and,

        Lowball Louie can be changed into Highball Howard and,

        Undecided Elvira can be changed into Decisive Deb,

        all within an hour.

        This can't usually be done when your getting new clients via digital means because you can't read them. Additionally you get to find out upfront before they become your client what type they are.

        Originally Posted by brucerby View Post

        Generally, by referral...then by direct mail, and personal visit and COI.
        I'm actually about to post an example of one approach that works very well for me....

        So, thanks for asking, Russ.

        NOTE: I think many of the posters here enjoy making up more funny names for these clients..lol :-)
        _____
        Bruce NewMedia
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        • Profile picture of the author digichik
          Originally Posted by Rus Sells View Post

          The reason I ask is because I think that many of these types of posts are from people who aren't usually meeting people face to face to pitch and close the deal.

          Know it all Ned can be changed into Humble Hal and,

          Fantasy Fred can be changed into Reality Ron and,

          Lowball Louie can be changed into Highball Howard and,

          Undecided Elvira can be changed into Decisive Deb,

          all within an hour.

          This can't usually be done when your getting new clients via digital means because you can't read them. Additionally you get to find out upfront before they become your client what type they are.

          ...And that's the truth.

          When did looking someone in the eyes, and allowing them to look you in the eyes, go out of style?
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          • Profile picture of the author BizGrabbers
            Originally Posted by digichik View Post

            ...And that's the truth.

            When did looking someone in the eyes, and allowing them to look you in the eyes, go out of style?

            My father-in-law made me sit where he could look me in the eyes when I asked for his daughter's hand in marriage.
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            • Profile picture of the author ronr
              Ahh #1 know-it-all-Ned,

              I remember when I used to try to help them. It's impossible. They know nothing about a topic but are happy to tell all why it will or won't work for them.

              Ned: My business is down.

              You: Have you tried x? It's helped 25 in your situation.
              Ned: X doesn't work, tried it once.

              You: What about y?
              Bruce: Never tried y but I know it doesn't work.

              You: What about Z?
              Bruce: I know all about Z. Z will never work either.

              Ron
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  • Profile picture of the author somacorellc
    Never Talks to You Nellie: This is the client you've landed, sent the contract to, and she's signed, but that's about it. Emailing them yields nothing, Phone calls are either unanswered or met with brief statements like "I like green." No direction, no idea what she likes, and she gives you no content. Eventually you get the site done, but you have no idea if she likes it. She's paid you, yeah, but who knows what she really thinks? Also declines any other offer to do any more work for her at all.

    Grandiose Gerald: This guy knows everyone. If you sign up to do his website for some ridiculously low price, he'll give you more referrals then you could ever imagine. He knows people in high places, low places, round places, square places - and they're all itching for a website from whoever Gerald hires to do his. But then the day of reckoning comes, and the leads are nowhere to be found! Gerald stops returning your calls, stops sending you emails, and drops off the face of the earth. Gerald never had any leads at all, did he?
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    • Profile picture of the author caseycase
      Originally Posted by somacorellc View Post

      Never Talks to You Nellie: This is the client you've landed, sent the contract to, and she's signed, but that's about it. Emailing them yields nothing, Phone calls are either unanswered or met with brief statements like "I like green." No direction, no idea what she likes, and she gives you no content. Eventually you get the site done, but you have no idea if she likes it. She's paid you, yeah, but who knows what she really thinks? Also declines any other offer to do any more work for her at all.

      Grandiose Gerald: This guy knows everyone. If you sign up to do his website for some ridiculously low price, he'll give you more referrals then you could ever imagine. He knows people in high places, low places, round places, square places - and they're all itching for a website from whoever Gerald hires to do his. But then the day of reckoning comes, and the leads are nowhere to be found! Gerald stops returning your calls, stops sending you emails, and drops off the face of the earth. Gerald never had any leads at all, did he?
      I could totally live with Never Talks To You Nellie!
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  • Profile picture of the author MrSS
    True brucerby. Many Warrior members are experiencing those kinds of clients. If not for money, of course who cares to interact with them. My workmate told me a sales person should somewhat be a kiss *ss. Yeah right, kinda effective.

    May I ask everyone, what is your ultimate rebuttal?
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  • Profile picture of the author Not So New
    I agree Bruce

    #1 & #4 are a pain in the butt : )
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    • Profile picture of the author henrichowe
      Hey Bruce,

      I don't want to hijack this thread but I am interested in your wso's. Which one is the best to start off with for a complete newb?
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      • Profile picture of the author Centurian
        Absolutely Rus!

        That's why selling face-to-face is my preferred method.

        Originally Posted by Rus Sells View Post

        The reason I ask is because I think that many of these types of posts are from people who aren't usually meeting people face to face to pitch and close the deal.

        Know it all Ned can be changed into Humble Hal and,

        Fantasy Fred can be changed into Reality Ron and,

        Lowball Louie can be changed into Highball Howard and,

        Undecided Elvira can be changed into Decisive Deb,

        all within an hour.

        This can't usually be done when your getting new clients via digital means because you can't read them. Additionally you get to find out upfront before they become your client what type they are.
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      • Profile picture of the author Bruce NewMedia
        Originally Posted by henrichowe View Post

        Hey Bruce,

        I don't want to hijack this thread but I am interested in your wso's. Which one is the best to start off with for a complete newb?
        henrichhowe, I'll send you a pm, rather than promote anything on this thread.

        Bruce
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  • Bruce,

    I Agree with you 100%, I ran into fraud frank a few times. & I recently met Charge-back Nelly Friday on a transaction that took place almost 4 months ago.

    -Great job! "People need to do there home work" big time!-
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    • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
      LOL Those names are EPIC! Love it!

      Originally Posted by WebdevelopmentGroup View Post

      Bruce,

      I Agree with you 100%, I ran into fraud frank a few times. & I recently met Charge-back Nelly Friday on a transaction that took place almost 4 months ago.

      -Great job! "People need to do there home work" big time!-
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  • Profile picture of the author MrSS
    I wanna add 1 more:

    Discount Dude. These are client who once you offered a discount no matter how affordable your offer is, they will still ask for more discount. That's why I find it hard to rebut once I open up about the discount. But I tell bringing up the discount once they already signed. ehehe ..
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    • Profile picture of the author Mar
      Originally Posted by MrSS View Post


      Discount Dude. These are client who once you offered a discount no matter how affordable your offer is, they will still ask for more discount. That's why I find it hard to rebut once I open up about the discount. But I tell bringing up the discount once they already signed. ehehe ..
      Don't you just dream of saying -

      "If I have to negotiate, the price goes up." - 8-)

      A smile in your voice, of course ....

      Mar
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  • Profile picture of the author bateati
    Damn that know-it-all-fred lol

    This is going to make me self conscious next time I negotiate a business deal.
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  • Profile picture of the author raleigh
    Nice job on giving the undesirable customers a name. LOL Unfortunately as much as we do not want to encounter them, eventually one, a couple or at times all of them would pop up as our customers in a day or two. :-) Best way to go about them is treat them as a challenge and make converts out of em I say. LOL
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  • Profile picture of the author creationz
    Wonderful Post.
    Over the years, i have come across all these types.
    But fact is at times, you wont be able to avoid these clients no matter how much we try.
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  • Profile picture of the author shekinah
    Hey,discount dude, its my skills you need. C'mon!!! Or should i discount the skills too. 25% less
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  • delayed sammy

    paid 50% for project development, I mentioned that we would be done in 2 weeks.
    He then disappeared for 1 month & 10 days.

    When he returned he approved the job signed my agreement. through our gmail chat he wasn't answering my questions. About 25 minutes into the gmail chat "he said I have to go I'll get back to you with anything I forgot to add on"

    "keep in mind he already gave me the details for the project & he approved"

    LOL!!! no no no it doesn't work that way!...Developers & designers take your work seriously "don't let people run your business" YOU RUN YOUR BUSINESS NO ONE ELSE DOES!

    Charge your fee's!
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    • Profile picture of the author theaer
      Hahaha... I'd call them Delayed Danny, but those are the most difficult of clients. I have a couple clients that I picked up nearly 10 years ago. They are always 3 months late in their payments, but as loyal as a offline marketer could want.

      I agree with the OP, go with your gut. No one is perfect so you'll always have some issue. That's why business is called a battle ground by some.

      Originally Posted by WebdevelopmentGroup View Post

      delayed sammy

      paid 50% for project development, I mentioned that we would be done in 2 weeks.
      He then disappeared for 1 month & 10 days.

      When he returned he approved the job signed my agreement. through our gmail chat he wasn't answering my questions. About 25 minutes into the gmail chat "he said I have to go I'll get back to you with anything I forgot to add on"

      "keep in mind he already gave me the details for the project & he approved"

      LOL!!! no no no it doesn't work that way!...Developers & designers take your work seriously "don't let people run your business" YOU RUN YOUR BUSINESS NO ONE ELSE DOES!

      Charge your fee's!
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  • Profile picture of the author IsGabeW
    I'd also add someone like 'Broke Joe' - want the best services, top rankings and ultimate conversions - but only wants to spend $200 MAX!
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    • Profile picture of the author Wisdom Raphael
      Originally Posted by IsGabeW View Post

      I'd also add someone like 'Broke Joe' - want the best services, top rankings and ultimate conversions - but only wants to spend $200 MAX!
      Hit the bull's eye! most of my clients fall into this category. Very hard selling stuffs to this category of clients. They come in with lots of questions then try to force the price down even when they see the value. I don't waste time with them.
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      • Profile picture of the author dtaylor
        This is a great thread! As I read the descriptions the faces of people I have dealt with popped up. I got a real chuckle out of putting their faces with the descriptions here.

        Probably the best way I have found to deal with these types, or any of the hard-to-deal with clients is to use what Tom Hopkins called "the Porcupine". This is where you keep throwing questions or hypothetical situations into their lap to make them react and respond. Many times, they will end up batting down their own objections in just a few minutes. This puts you into the postition of observer rather than salesman or explainer.

        DTaylor
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    • Profile picture of the author ryanmckinney
      I want the client that drives the top of the line BMW, buys things just because they are expensive, and want's to brag to his buddies on the golf course "Yeah my marketing guy costs thousands a month to do everything and he is great!".

      So I guess I want an Arrogant-Al? Showboat-Sally?
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  • Profile picture of the author davidlieder
    Having a problematic customer can certainly drain a lot of energy and cause a lot of stress. It is sometimes hard to say no to a deal, but sometimes it is the best thing!! As you are saying, a problematic customer is not worth the money you make, in the end it is sometimes like a bad marriage and there can be regret.
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  • Profile picture of the author danielkanuck
    “Know-It-All Ned” is funny haha.
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  • Profile picture of the author Face Cap
    Thanks for the info
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  • Profile picture of the author RentItNow
    LOL, just love this thread. My coworkers used to tease the hell out of me for pigeon holing people this way but eventually they would use the same names I was as code in meetings.

    The “Know-It-All Ned” has been with facebook lately. They say their friends are telling them they need more of a facebook presence and we need more facebook stuff, meanwhile they are getting AMAZING results with adwords.

    Lowball Louie" is the worst because you know you are eventually going to have collection troubles or service disputes. I have to be too careful with these types to be comfortable with a client.

    Good post, Bruce. Thanks
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    I have no agenda but to help those in the same situation. This I feel will pay the bills.
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