The Actual Work

14 years ago

Id be interested to see an answer to this, I think that offline is obviously on the decline but the people who know it and are applying it well do seem to be flying right now. Maybe the move to online has left them with less competition....

Thanks
3 replies

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DavePalermo 14 years ago

I don't think market saturation is as big a problem as some make it out to be.
So if the amateurs are willing to not jump in, then better for the rest of us still hanging around.

Businesses need an online presence.
It's just a matter of striking the right balance.
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Adrian Browning

Banned 14 years ago

[DELETED]

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kenmichaels

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Adrian Browning

You "think" Offline is "on the decline"? Yet you provide no statistics, and even go on to say

First of all what the hell is "Offline"? I had taken the term "Offline Marketing" to mean 'Marketing' in the real world. Since this is the case.. the fact that a grown man chooses to sit down in his chair and type such an erroneous statement on his keyboard really concerns me.

If "Offline" is "on the decline", why is it that when I stepped down from my shower this morning, my cell phone rang and I answered it only to be told that one of my clients just deposited $15K into my account? Why is it that my business is on track to produce 35% more profit than it did last year?.. Why am I turning away more clients than I am accepting?

"Offline" isn't "on the decline" my friend... But I'll tell you what is "on the decline"...

People seem to think that it is still 2006 and that they can still make boat loads of cash from hawking SEO, and web design services... That ship has sailed.. You missed the gold rush... Forget about it - it just isn't going to happen.

All of my SEO and PPC clients have been with me for at least 4 years. This is why I am steadily receiving anything from $15 - 30K for my internet services..

So I'll level with you right now (because no one else will) - if you haven't already got at least 10 high ticket clients under your belt, then forget about it... The most you can hope to achieve from slinging SEO is a measly $300 a month.

However, there are of course other things that are booming right now, just like SEO was 6 years ago. There is another "gold rush" happening right now..

My only advice to you is - as an "offliner", you should be paying attention to everything that is going on around you.. (In the real world of course..). Because I can switch on my television right now, and within 10 minutes I'll have at least one idea which I can easily turn into a new Million $ income stream.

So start paying attention.. and stop following the crowd

- Adrian

When you are NOT being a jack*ass about phone sales...
you are spot on.

If you were some one who would take criticism, and i know you aren't
( so i am wasting my time by posting this....)

I would say, ease up. Not everyone is at the same level, and
not everyone appreciates being talked down to.

EVERYONE, and i do mean EVERYONE, has to learn... at their own pace.

Even if you ... I... and everyone else, thinks they are idiots...

they have to go through "things" to learn...

Some people learn faster then others... Some never learn... other learn quick
and sky rocket to success...

You are eloquent... a douche ( in my book ) but eloquent none the less

YOU... adrian need to decide, are you a teacher... a loner ...
or just another *sshole who wants to lord his success over others
and make them feel inferior....

P.S.

If you think i am attacking you , because of your views on phone sales...
I am not...

I really don't care about that... I DO CARE about you randomly attacking my friends, but paul made it so that you cannot do that anymore. So i am going to just forget about it.

I do bizz with people every day, that i don't believe what they believe, i even do bizz with people i don't like... to me, it matters not.

YOU have a following here... It is easy to see.. That means YOU have an obligation.

don't fall short.

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bluecoyotemedia

14 years ago

Adrian

so I guess I should hang up my spurs and call it a day..

don't mess with Texas

Originally Posted by Adrian Browning

You "think" Offline is "on the decline"? Yet you provide no statistics, and even go on to say

First of all what the hell is "Offline"? I had taken the term "Offline Marketing" to mean 'Marketing' in the real world. Since this is the case.. the fact that a grown man chooses to sit down in his chair and type such an erroneous statement on his keyboard really concerns me.

If "Offline" is "on the decline", why is it that when I stepped down from my shower this morning, my cell phone rang and I answered it only to be told that one of my clients just deposited $15K into my account? Why is it that my business is on track to produce 35% more profit than it did last year?.. Why is it that in 2012, I have turned away more clients than I have accepted?

"Offline" isn't "on the decline" my friend... But I'll tell you what is "on the decline"...

People seem to think that it is still 2006 and that they can still make boat loads of cash from hawking SEO, and web design services... That ship has sailed.. You missed the gold rush... Forget about it - it just isn't going to happen.

All of my SEO and PPC clients have been with me for at least 4 years. This is why I am steadily receiving anything from $15 - 30K per client for my internet services..

So I'll level with you right now (because no one else will) - if you haven't already got at least 10 high ticket clients under your belt, then forget about it... The most you can hope to achieve from slinging SEO is a measly $300 a month.

However, there are of course other things that are booming right now, just like SEO was 6 years ago. There is another "gold rush" happening right now..

My only advice to you is - as an "offliner", you should be paying attention to everything that is going on around you.. (In the real world of course..). Because I can switch on my television right now, and within 10 minutes I'll have at least one idea which I can easily turn into a new Million $ income stream.

So start paying attention.. and stop following the crowd

- Adrian

Thanks

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A clandestine group operating without any external intervention or oversight. Such groups achieve significant breakthroughs rarely discussed in public because they operate "outside the box".
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PeacefulCalamity

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Adrian Browning

...Because I can switch on my television right now, and within 10 minutes I'll have at least one idea which I can easily turn into a new Million $ income stream....

So start paying attention.. and stop following the crowd

- Adrian

Outrageous statement is outrageous.

As far as outsourcing goes, I usually outsource a lot of my work, and I think it's the way to go. If you find a reliable outsourcing service or team, you're not so much doing work as you are managing it. You'll have to be organized and keep track of everything and make sure another person is doing their part, but I think it's a price worth paying in order to get things done without you doing those things.

Thanks

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John Durham

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Humbled

Id be interested to see an answer to this, I think that offline is obviously on the decline but the people who know it and are applying it well do seem to be flying right now. Maybe the move to online has left them with less competition....

This has got to be the answer of the year in the "lacking common sense" category. Im not being sarcastic. Im being very very real.

For the second time ever, Im going to agree with Adrian on something- If you endeavor to be an entrepreneur of ANY kind, then your answer here seriously concerns me.

Thanks

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sadneck

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Humbled

Id be interested to see an answer to this, I think that offline is obviously on the decline but the people who know it and are applying it well do seem to be flying right now. Maybe the move to online has left them with less competition....

Dave is right.... The less likely newbs are to jump into the market, the less saturation there will be... The problem with Offline marketing is it requires you to have a face. To have a phone. To have a voice.

IM is saturated because everyone can sit behind a computer and try to make money from others without really having to look them in the eye or hear their voice... Its intimidating to hear your voice asking another person for money. Cold calling is case in point.

Andrew

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grey38

14 years ago

I'm not sure why you think offline is in the decline. It's certainly not as easy as it was before panda & penguin, but there are new services and social networks coming out every day.

Population will migrate to the new services and social networks, and business owners cannot keep up with the demand for constant change. That's where our ongoing service will be needed. The more offliners there are, will leave less clients per offliner, but that does not mean we are in any less of demand.

As for the work, I'm in a stage where I only do work as needed so it's not a lot overall. I do it all myself. Until I have the need to outsource, I won't.

Off note, but when I do start to outsource, I don't believe I'll use out of country work. A lot of offliners do that, but that is a reason America's jobs are so low and we're falling into debt. Sure there are many other (much more detrimental) reasons, but I wouldn't mind hiring an assistant in my local area if I could trust them.

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Voasi

14 years ago

Originally Posted by DavePalermo

I have a question for all you "Offliners"

Do you do all the seo, web design, Google places etc... work or do you outsource it?

And, if you outsource said work, whom do you use?

Thanks for all your input.

I'd say 50-50.

We do most of the work internally, especially organic SEO, conversion optimization and web design. Some local SEO and PPC I outsource.

My PPC outsourcer was from someone who made a WSO of the Day. Local SEO provider is someone here on the forum that has ranked 100's of local clients.

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socialbacklink

14 years ago

Yeah. I'm not sure where the "offline is declining" quote is coming from. If anything it's really just getting started. I remember when I first start web design and SEO in '96 and for about 4 years through around 2000 or so there was an era where some were jumping into the internet. The dot com era. It left a bad taste in people's mouth when it crashed. The reason it crashed was because of companies with investment capital buying $600 conference room chairs. They showed no value. They were just taking the money and not really working on much. Also, the ones that actually did work were struggling uphill because no one had ever turned a profit from the internet. Then, Amazon turned a profit. From there it really starting working.

Fast forward to today. I have relatives that are 80 years old on Facebook. Things have changed. Here though is where the point is. According to the SBA 50% of small businesses fail in the first 5 years. 70% in the first 10. One of the listed reasons is Low sales. It's not the economy. This has ALWAYS been the case even before the bad economy. According to the NY times one of the top 10 reasons businesses fail is poor Marketing. Brick and Mortar companies will never be able to do their own marketing and truly focus on supplying the product or service. It's a full time job as we know. They also won't be able to hire someone good to do it at anywhere from $60k - $100k per year. Why should they when they can pay someone like me $1-2k per month to do it for them. So then, tell me why offline marketing would be on the decline? I've seen many trends take place in 16 years doing this. In my expert opinion the offline game is just getting started.

And by the way, I can do all of from web design to PPC, Social Media, SEO, etc. But the real way to work is to find good outsourcers. You probably won't find a whole lot of guys giving up their oursourcers because when you find good ones (which are rare) you don't give that stuff away.

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John Durham

14 years ago

@ Ken,

If Adrian could somehow develop a conscious, I do think he would have alot to offer. Not for me to spoonfeed anyone, but I have tried several times to encourage him that he has value if his delivery would change.

I 'did" find the word "Hawking" in his post interesting, but you probably dont understand why...

In any event, if people are willing to grow, heck I will give them the second chance that God gives me everyday... then there is also the school of thought that says "Once someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time..."

Maybe its the bleeding heart thing, that you speak of, which causes me to go back and forth on these things.

Im not sure how much of a strength it is, but its been my weakness many times in life.

Originally Posted by Voasi

I'd say 50-50.

We do most of the work internally, especially organic SEO, conversion optimization and web design. Some local SEO and PPC I outsource.

My PPC outsourcer was from someone who made a WSO of the Day. Local SEO provider is someone here on the forum that has ranked 100's of local clients.

I think thats natural for companies to do more inhouse as they grow. A fulltime SEO person on staff costs 50k per year, or even less....maybe as low as 28k... but outsourcing seo costs like 20% of the gross usually... So it doesnt make sense to outsource when you see $200,000- $300,000 worth of your million dollars gross come OFF the top, and go to one outsourcer.

You may start thinking you can have a person on staff for as low as 28k.

That being said, I outsource more to help other upcoming entrepreneurs... but I try to create profit margins that deliberately facilitate that.

Thanks
1 reply

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kenmichaels

14 years ago

Originally Posted by John Durham

I 'did" find the word "Hawking" in his post interesting, but you probably dont understand why...

From an early age i "hawked" newspapers on a street corner from NY to long beach island NJ...

thats is the only "hawked" i am familiar with...

so... i am all ears in anticipation for you to fill me in on what i missed
with that statement.

Thanks
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John Durham

14 years ago

Originally Posted by kenmichaels

From an early age i "hawked" newspapers on a street corner form NY to long beach island NJ...

thats is the only "hawked" i am familiar with...

so... i am all ears in anticipation for you to fill me in on what i missed
with that statement.

I was referring to something I read the other day about "There goes John Durham Hawking another cause...", by a person with another username ... while that person was simultaneously sabotaging the success of that cause oriented endeavor... It'll come to you in a minute

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1 reply

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DavePalermo

14 years ago

Getting back on the original subject, outsource or in house...

What do you guys use?

I am currently doing ok....
I want to ramp it up to make this my full time income and finally quit my day job. (No I don't hate my job but I am stuck where I am)

I currently outsource and to quote John Durham it is eating away at my profits.
Not greatly but enough to make me cringe.

Thanks
1 reply

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kenmichaels

14 years ago

Originally Posted by DavePalermo

Getting back on the original subject, outsource or in house...

What do you guys use?

I am currently doing ok....
I want to ramp it up to make this my full time income and finally quit my day job. (No I don't hate my job but I am stuck where I am)

I currently outsource and to quote John Durham it is eating away at my profits.
Not greatly but enough to make me cringe.

I should apologize to you .. sorry for derailing things...

to answer your question... Except for 3 VA's
we are completely in-house.

it is a bit more expensive, but it gives us more control, and sometime
it allows us to turn on a dime.

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luke1213

14 years ago

Right now, I plan on doing as much as I can in house as long as I have the time.

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socialbacklink

14 years ago

Originally Posted by cdl512

My question to people outsourcing SEO work; do you tell your client that the work will be done by someone else? If not is that not fraud? Are you selling yourself as an SEO expert and then letting someone else do the work?
If you outsource, how do you know if the work quality is at the highest standard? You want to build a business? build a reputation as being the best. It is very hard to do that by outsourcing. If you have employees that you have doing the work from your workflow and monitored by you then that is a different story.

Side note, Adrian - why the need to try and make yourself look like a baller on a forum were people don't know who you are? Seems very ODD.

Saturation in IM is next to impossible. The more competition in a market the more money there is to be made in that market. If you spend as much time learning about marketing, traffic, metrics as you do worrying about getting clients then you use your skills to get in on the action. Just do more than SEO cause SEO as a business is dead, it just does not know it yet!

With my outsourcers I just mention to clients that I am the expert and I have a team of guys I manage doing the work. Totally the truth. I double check their work if I'm trying out someone new to make sure they are doing things the way I like them done. After they build up a little trust with me I check occasionally to make sure quality is good. I have some guys that I really trust to do a great job for me. I let them do it.

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XprTSEO

14 years ago

@cdl512 being the SEO expert includes knowing how to 'provide the resources' to get the job done - so it's not fraud by any stretch of the imagination. As socialbacklink mentioned, tell the truth, but there's no need to emphasize HOW you're doing this ... as opposed to WHAT you'll be doing for them. Talk about statistics, time-tables, and what results they can expect ... that's what the clients want to hear so keep it simple.

Note: my SEO contracts always include a 3rd party clause with respect to 'The Work'; so if they read the contract and take issue, then I'd simply elaborate about my specialized SEO Team and how we're able to provide a more personalized service for each of our clients

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Hugh

14 years ago

Outsourses. When you find a great one, treat him/her like GOLD.
Give top pay and love.

Hugh

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MalBryc

14 years ago

Amen! I've come to realise (by paying attention) that "Offline" = "Real World" and that face-time and actually speaking to clients is the way forward.

I'm far from your level at the moment Adrian, but I hope to begin to take on high-ticket clients in the near future and get the results they deserve!

Originally Posted by Adrian Browning

First of all what the hell is "Offline"? I had taken the term "Offline Marketing" to mean 'Marketing' in the real world. Since this is the case.. the fact that a grown man chooses to sit down in his chair and type such an erroneous statement on his keyboard really concerns me.

"Offline" isn't "on the decline" my friend... But I'll tell you what is "on the decline"...

People seem to think that it is still 2006 and that they can still make boat loads of cash from hawking SEO, and web design services... That ship has sailed.. You missed the gold rush... Forget about it - it just isn't going to happen.

So I'll level with you right now (because no one else will) - if you haven't already got at least 10 high ticket clients under your belt, then forget about it... The most you can hope to achieve from slinging SEO is a measly $300 a month.

My only advice to you is - as an "offliner", you should be paying attention to everything that is going on around you.. (In the real world of course..). Because I can switch on my television right now, and within 10 minutes I'll have at least one idea which I can easily turn into a new Million $ income stream.

So start paying attention.. and stop following the crowd

- Adrian

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MaryEJ

14 years ago

I do my own images and some websites, but for anything time-consuming, I outsource. I use e-dasher for SEO and other services that would take too much time. If I do it all, I won't have time for any new customers or for prospecting. I prefer to discuss and plan out methods and campaigns.

It is hard to find reliable outsourcers who actually take pride in what they do. Once you find them, they are like gold.

Regarding offline being on the decline... I have to respectfully disagree. On any day during walk-ins, I come across at least 3 or 4 businesses who have never had a website and do not know about anything online. No email addresses or review knowledge at all. Some of them are so focused on their own business, they never see past it. Some places still do not know what a QR code is or that websites are on mobile devices.

We are so deeply 'in it' as marketers, that we can sometimes assume that everyone knows what we know... or knows about what we do. This is far from reality. We are still the experts and we still have a lot of people to help.

Thanks

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DaniMc

14 years ago

Use the Pareto principle...80/20

Your marketing provides you with income...not your fulfillment.

So, you need to spend 80% of your time on marketing and 20% (or less) on fulfillment.

Most people have it the other way around. Don't spend 80% on fulfillment and 20% on marketing...that is how you go broke.

Honestly, I try to keep mine at 90/10 or even 95/5. I want to spend as much time marketing and as little time fulfilling as possible.

So...yeah...I outsource. And, I charge more than my competition. Those two things can change your life.

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The Actual Work

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