Contract?

14 years ago

Yes, I would say to use one.

It defines what work you will do for the client in writing and they can't argue that you were supposed to do more work than what you had originally agreed upon.

Also, I would not state what you are going to do for the client in general terms such as building a website or seo. Put it in descriptive terms. How many pages is the website? Any specific features needed on the website? End goal of seo? How many keywords and what are the keywords?

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Jason Kanigan

14 years ago

I typically write something up and get them to agree to the principles via email.

If it is a really large dollar value we're talking about then getting a lawyer involved might be a good idea.

For the smaller dollars I figure it's just going to be unenforceable or cost too much to collect, so as long as I get their agreement to the process it's OK. I also want at least 50% and often 100% payment up front to get money out of the picture. That's your best defense.

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jayspann

14 years ago

We used "agreements" when we started... don't call them contracts LOL. It was always a big hassle, they always want to change this or that language.

Now I just do business on a handshake. That being said I'm well known now and live in a smaller community then Philly

I would not work with someone (now) that I would not invite over to dinner or share a beer or several with.

That wasn't always the case. I've worked with e-cig companies before and others that I wouldn't think about taking on if I had to do it over. Oh and I've had people default on their agreements and after it was said and done is wasn't worth my time and effort chase after the money.

WOW I went off on a tangent. Yes if your getting started I would use a standard performance agreement. You agree to perform XYZ for $$$$ bla bla bla. That's normally enough for both of your and their "piece of mind"

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jayspann

14 years ago

Something that I didn't think about in my first post... if you are ever thinking about investors or getting a credit line then you need to do contracts.

Investors didnt give a shit that we had crazy positive cash flow. All they cared about is guaranteed future income (contracts) the longer the better.

We started to give BIG discounts for multi-year agreements. Our cash flow cut in half but it did help us build an asset that I was able to sell to the investors.

The company had got too big for me and I made too many stupid business decisions so I wanted to sell my 54% and run for the hills

Long story short... contracts do give you an asset and an exit strategy.

Originally Posted by jayspann

We used "agreements" when we started... don't call them contracts LOL. It was always a big hassle, they always want to change this or that language.

Now I just do business on a handshake. That being said I'm well known now and live in a smaller community then Philly

I would not work with someone (now) that I would not invite over to dinner or share a beer or several with.

That wasn't always the case. I've worked with e-cig companies before and others that I wouldn't think about taking on if I had to do it over. Oh and I've had people default on their agreements and after it was said and done is wasn't worth my time and effort chase after the money.

WOW I went off on a tangent. Yes if your getting started I would use a standard performance agreement. You agree to perform XYZ for $$$$ bla bla bla. That's normally enough for both of your and their "piece of mind"

Thanks

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Mwind076

14 years ago

I'm with most everyone else. We don't do "contracts" we try to spell out and agree via emails what we will do and what they can expect. There will still be those that misinterpret or want above and beyond, but for most people, simple outlines in email work.

Contracts are a waste of time as most people use some standard thing they find on the internet and it usually doesn't apply to each state. It's also impossible to enforce a contract unless you are going to take it to court and usually that'll cost you more than what you paid out. Also, the "legal" wording isn't even enforceable. You can't keep someone from doing their "business" or livelihood with all SEO companies because they once worked with you.

So, that's why we don't do them. Also, for us, we do weekly pay ahead of time, if we don't want to work with you, we haven't lost much if you don't pay.

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theotherguys

14 years ago

Originally Posted by DavePalermo

Hey everyone,
Does anyone use contracts with clients?
I am about to sign a good sized client for a lot of work (seo, website etc...)
and I was considering having them sign a contract.

Does anyone use contracts?

Looking for some input...
Thanks

If big money is in stake, definitely use a contract. It's a way of insuring yourself that you will get what you paid for.

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eb219

14 years ago

As others have mentioned, it depends on the business, the owner, and the amounts. Emails can be considered written agreements, so typically this is fine. If you can read people well, be it face to face or over the phone, this usually helps to shape the nature of how you should proceed, but always have something in writing, no matter how minimal. Every client relationship is different, so a good judgment of character is always a prerequisite.

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Hugh

14 years ago

With their check in my pocket, from my office, I send a
"Memorandum Of Understanding" by email. Try to include
everything we had agreed on. "Does this cover it?. Let me
know if you agree."

That's my "contract."

Hugh

PS. Long ago I was told that my lawyer would protect my butt so well that no-one would sign it. And their lawyer would build in so many loophole as to make it worthless.

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thattaway

14 years ago

Hey Dave.
This is a great topic! I've been looking for one as well, until I remembered an "order sheet" that I received with a Maria Gudelis WSO a while back. It has bundled services listed with prices. I tweeked it and included ongoing monthly services with almost every marketing project. Then at the bottem, I included an authorization for autopay by check draft. This is a normal practice in many business, and no one should balk at it. As an attorney by training, I can tell you that 9 pages of legal boilerplate scares the whiskers off most people, including me, and is not necessary. Hope this helps.

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RedShifted

14 years ago

Yes I have tons of contracts. Do you need some?

What winds up happening is my friends/people I work with send contracts to me to look over, and give my opinion on.

Then I wind up saving them all in my documents. I just got a new one yesterday from expreseo.com. Probaly one of the better SEO/PPC/SEM contracts I've seen. I have one from seo.com too, and a bunch others I can't remember.

Let me know if you want the expreseo one, I have like 5-6 others for SEO but the one I got yesterday was my favorite. Its much better than the contract I use to use for web design, thats for sure.

ps. I'm not sure if its wrong to share contracts from other businesses so maybe someone can let me know? I mean they will send them over if you just call and ask so I don't see how it could be wrong.

Thanks
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jodamy

14 years ago

I would use a contract for building their website if it is a large job, but I do not push contracts for monthly fees such as SEO maintenance. The reason for this is I like to tell them that they can cancel at anytime if they are not happy with the results. I feel like this shows them my confidence in my work.

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shane_k

14 years ago

I use contracts all the time!

Maybe it's because I have lived with a Lawyer my whole life (my father is one) And have heard from him tons of stories about people who have said the very same things that others have said in this thread.

And because of this I am going to comment on things from my point of view which might help or not.

Originally Posted by Jason Kanigan

For the smaller dollars I figure it's just going to be unenforceable or cost too much to collect

Originally Posted by jayspann

Oh and I've had people default on their agreements and after it was said and done is wasn't worth my time and effort chase after the money.

Originally Posted by Mwind076

It's also impossible to enforce a contract unless you are going to take it to court and usually that'll cost you more than what you paid out.

The problem with these 3 quotes, and I don't mean anything to you guys, is that you are all thinking from your point of view and how much it will cost you to get the money from a client.

The thing is your client might not have the same attitude. Especially if he feels wronged by you. He might feel it is totally worth it to go after you, to get his money back from you.

A contract not only states the work that you are going to do, but it also protects you from him, and him from you.

And by not having one you are leaving yourself open and vulnerable from attacks by him.

Originally Posted by jayspann

Now I just do business on a handshake.

lol, I can just imagine what my father would say about this.

You know, I have heard tonnes and tonnes of sad stories over the years about many, people who felt it wasn't "honorable" to use contracts, or saying things like, "we do things differently here in this small town. We don't need contracts like you big city folk."

You might think a handshake might mean something now, when you are both happy with one another, but when it comes down to it, when one of you is pissed off at the one, or feels that cheated, man the gloves are going to come out and you are going to get hit hard.

Sure you might not have been hit yet, but that doesn't mean it won't happen in the future.

Originally Posted by Mwind076

Also, the "legal" wording isn't even enforceable. You can't keep someone from doing their "business" or livelihood with all SEO companies because they once worked with you.

You are talking about a Non-compete agreement right?

Is this your opinion or have you been told this by a Lawyer?

I am not sure about non-compete but other contracts are definately enforceable.

Especially if you have a great contract with tight wording, and a smart Lawyer.

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shane_k 14 years ago

For the smaller dollars I figure it's just going to be unenforceable or cost too much to collect

Now I just do business on a handshake.

One more thing that I want to mention about these two ideas.

A lot of the stories that I have heard from my father, have had nothing to do with money at all.

A lot of it had to do with people's vindictiveness, people's anger, even just plain wanting to win, people wanting to get revenge, wanting to get back at someone who they felt wronged them, scammed them, cost them frustration, time and money, even cases where it had to do with the person's principles and them feeling that they were wronged and they wanted to make sure that the person they felt wronged them was punished.

So like I said in my above post

1) by not having a contract you are leaving yourself vulnerable to these things.

and 2) people might be nice and honorable and sensible now, but when the gloves come off people change.

Look at how terrible divorces are and that will give you an idea of what I mean.
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PlasticCards

14 years ago

Use a contract, if they give big money

Thanks

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Contract?

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