20 Things 20-Year-Olds Don't Get

by DaniMc
31 replies
Just came across this article. I think it's not just for people in their 20's - it's for anyone just getting started in business!

If you are just trying to get things moving, you have basically stepped into a new career. You are now "in your 20's" no matter how old you are.

Every single one of these is true. Internalize them. Change to fit them. Don't say "oh that's not me." You shouldn't change truth to match you. You should change yourself to match the truth.

20 Things 20-Year-Olds Don't Get - Forbes
#20yearolds #things
  • Profile picture of the author ADukes81
    An awesome list! Great share, Dan!
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  • Profile picture of the author Aaron Doud
    Interesting article. I think some things I did flew in the face of what he is saying though.

    Time is Not a Limitless Commodity: Agree 100% here. I find it interesting that a later point he makes goes against this. I will get to that later. But always assume you will have less time never more. So make the most of it.

    You’re Talented, But Talent is Overrated: No one cares if you are the smartest person in the room. They do care if you are the go to guy that finds solutions. It is the application of Talent that will make or break you. Also how you use said talent to make the team, company, and your boss look better. People matter not skills/etc. Most people can be taught most things. Never assume knowing or not knowing how to do something will help or hurt your career.

    We’re More Productive in the Morning: Complete BS. This guy is more productive in the morning and he is forcing his staff to play on his time table. The most productive part of the day will vary by person. It is one of the many reasons I am a big believer in paying for results not time. If you can do the $40k a year job in 5 hours a week that is great. In fact let's double your work and double your pay. Instead we force people to work 9 to 5 and many are only "working" to fill the time. Give them goals, pay them for doing them, and send them home. if you need a "body" hire one but pay everyone else based on what they produce.

    I will agree that working super late for most people is not productive. But for some working at 3am may be the most productive. Just need to make sure they can work at that time vs forcing them to work at 8am.

    Social Media is Not a Career: I both agree and disagree with this. Marketing is the career with growth but there will always be people paid to be the social media person. That said they limit their income by doing just that.

    Pick Up the Phone: You can't hide behind a computer even if your job is 99% about the internet. Could not agree more. Too many people (especially on this board) limit themselves by not doing things on the phone and in person.

    Be the First In & Last to Leave: This is BS. The only time this matters is if your boss equates time to value. And in his company he is clearly one of those bosses.

    The truth is to get ahead you need to produce more and better results. True leaders would rather you be the guy putting in the least hours and getting the most results.

    Time = Value is stupid as most people fill their day with busy "work" and a lot of non-work. I'd bet the average American working a 45 hour work week could get his job done and produce more in a focused 15 hour work week. We waste time because we are paid based on time even on salary. The only people not paid on time are commissioned sales people and even there too many managers want them working set hours.

    Don’t Wait to Be Told What to Do: I agree to a point. You shouldn't need to be micro managed. But at the same time don't just go do a bunch of things not related to your job. Don't do "more" and burn out. Get more results out of what you do.

    Seeing a theme that this guy values time and overworked staff members. Great thing about the modern internet is you can research managers and companies like this and know to avoid them.

    Take Responsibility for Your Mistakes: Hell just take responsibility period. Too many people like to blame everyone for what happens in their life. As for mistakes you might as well admit to them. The faster you admit them the faster they can be fixed. And if you keep making mistakes it will be clear to everyone including yourself that the job is not a good fit for you.

    You Should Be Getting Your Butt Kicked: You should be challenged but if your boss is a dick that is a sign to move on. of course this is likely aimed at people who are not me so I get what he is saying. But he is a bit of a sadomasochist, isn't he?

    A New Job a Year Isn’t a Good Thing: You need to further your career and change jobs when it is time to change jobs. If that is once a year so be it. Early in my management career I lasted no more than 2 years at a job. Staying longer meant leaving money on the table and being bored. You need to move on when you are maxed out at your current job and have no way to advance with the company. If that is in 9 months so be it.

    Trust me the hiring manager will not care that you stayed at _____ for only 14 months when you explain that you were the top producer and you left to take the job at _______ which increased your pay 20%.

    They will want you even for a short time for the results. And the often unfounded hope that they will be the one to keep you.

    Of course I speak as a high performer and he is likely talking to the mass of average.

    People Matter More Than Perks: A lot of things matter more than perks or even pay early in a career. People, Titles, Company Prestige, and etc can all help you in your career a lot more than $10, $20, or even $50k more a year. You want to maximize your pay but at the same time the fastest path to better pay may be the lower paying job. This is something that high performers know and understand.

    Map Effort to Your Professional Gain: Same idea on this one. You need to do things with the bigger picture in mind. Yeah you don't want to help your boss do ____ but the fact you did will score you points later.

    Speak Up, Not Out: If you wouldn't say it to your boss you shouldn't say it. Basically have some balls.

    You HAVE to Build Your Technical Chops: (Commentary aimed at what he said: I immediately toss a resume or cover letter that uses the word "ninja". Grow up and pretend you are not a 90's kid. I don't talk about robots all the time like an 80's kid could.)

    But yeah you need to know tech. Even if it has nothing to do with your job. My tech skills have been invaluable to me over the years.

    Both the Size and Quality of Your Network Matter: If someone wants a huge network and to give them all facetime that is fine. But like all time it is limited. Clearly the author here believes every moment should be work related. But for normal people just be real. I'm not big on networking. Never been my thing and I don't for one second believe it held me back. Hell I don't even drink so going out to a bar with co-workers is not something I ever wanted to do.

    As always Results Matter. The rest you can fumble through. If you are twice as productive as Jim no one will care that Jim was at every get together while you blew them off to drive your Corvette. But at the same time still be social and help your network but you don't have to do it the way he said.

    You Need At Least 3 Professional Mentors: I have not once in my life had a long term mentor. But I learn from everyone rather they are further ahead or somewhere behind me on the career ladder. Learning is the key.

    In a pure corporate world you may need mentors but that is about politics. And if the company promotes and pays based on politics why are you, a high achiever, sticking around?

    Pick an Idol & Act “As If”: I like this idea. WWJD but more capitalistic.

    Read More Books, Fewer Tweets/Texts: Read more period. If tweets provide value read them. But do read more non-fiction books. 1 a month at least as he said.

    Spend 25% Less Than You Make: I think everyone here knows I disagree with this. Time is short and none of us know when our "time" will come. So spend your money and enjoy life. Just don't over spend. I bought a Corvette at 23 and have had 2 car payments most of my adult life. Most would think that was silly. But they are the ones who will buy a Corvette when they are 50 & 60 and wish they had done it sooner. So stop putting off living.

    Focus on cash flow. I can show everyone the math on why investing and saving is silly. Inflation simply keeps the earnings too low. So focus on increasing your cash flow as you get older. Don't save just because you plan to have no income besides savings at 65. That is a cash flow problem.

    Transferring money from today (saving/investing) to then is not a true solution. Making sure you have cash flow at 65 is the solution. It's a different but in my opinion smarter way to look at it.

    Your Reputation is Priceless, Don’t Damage It: Unless you do something really stupid no one will remember it in 5 year let alone 10 or 20 years. Your reputation is not as big of a deal as he says. But by the same token you should be and act like the person you want to be. That alone should keep a good reputation (if you want that, a bad reputation could be better for some).
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    • Profile picture of the author DaniMc
      Originally Posted by Aaron Doud View Post

      Interesting article. I think some things I did flew in the face of what he is saying though.

      Time is Not a Limitless Commodity: Agree 100% here. I find it interesting that a later point he makes goes against this. I will get to that later. But always assume you will have less time never more. So make the most of it.

      You're Talented, But Talent is Overrated: No one cares if you are the smartest person in the room. They do care if you are the go to guy that finds solutions. It is the application of Talent that will make or break you. Also how you use said talent to make the team, company, and your boss look better. People matter not skills/etc. Most people can be taught most things. Never assume knowing or not knowing how to do something will help or hurt your career.

      We're More Productive in the Morning: Complete BS. This guy is more productive in the morning and he is forcing his staff to play on his time table. The most productive part of the day will vary by person. It is one of the many reasons I am a big believer in paying for results not time. If you can do the $40k a year job in 5 hours a week that is great. In fact let's double your work and double your pay. Instead we force people to work 9 to 5 and many are only "working" to fill the time. Give them goals, pay them for doing them, and send them home. if you need a "body" hire one but pay everyone else based on what they produce.

      I will agree that working super late for most people is not productive. But for some working at 3am may be the most productive. Just need to make sure they can work at that time vs forcing them to work at 8am.

      Social Media is Not a Career: I both agree and disagree with this. Marketing is the career with growth but there will always be people paid to be the social media person. That said they limit their income by doing just that.

      Pick Up the Phone: You can't hide behind a computer even if your job is 99% about the internet. Could not agree more. Too many people (especially on this board) limit themselves by not doing things on the phone and in person.

      Be the First In & Last to Leave: This is BS. The only time this matters is if your boss equates time to value. And in his company he is clearly one of those bosses.

      The truth is to get ahead you need to produce more and better results. True leaders would rather you be the guy putting in the least hours and getting the most results.

      Time = Value is stupid as most people fill their day with busy "work" and a lot of non-work. I'd bet the average American working a 45 hour work week could get his job done and produce more in a focused 15 hour work week. We waste time because we are paid based on time even on salary. The only people not paid on time are commissioned sales people and even there too many managers want them working set hours.

      Don't Wait to Be Told What to Do: I agree to a point. You shouldn't need to be micro managed. But at the same time don't just go do a bunch of things not related to your job. Don't do "more" and burn out. Get more results out of what you do.

      Seeing a theme that this guy values time and overworked staff members. Great thing about the modern internet is you can research managers and companies like this and know to avoid them.

      Take Responsibility for Your Mistakes: Hell just take responsibility period. Too many people like to blame everyone for what happens in their life. As for mistakes you might as well admit to them. The faster you admit them the faster they can be fixed. And if you keep making mistakes it will be clear to everyone including yourself that the job is not a good fit for you.

      You Should Be Getting Your Butt Kicked: You should be challenged but if your boss is a dick that is a sign to move on. of course this is likely aimed at people who are not me so I get what he is saying. But he is a bit of a sadomasochist, isn't he?

      A New Job a Year Isn't a Good Thing: You need to further your career and change jobs when it is time to change jobs. If that is once a year so be it. Early in my management career I lasted no more than 2 years at a job. Staying longer meant leaving money on the table and being bored. You need to move on when you are maxed out at your current job and have no way to advance with the company. If that is in 9 months so be it.

      Trust me the hiring manager will not care that you stayed at _____ for only 14 months when you explain that you were the top producer and you left to take the job at _______ which increased your pay 20%.

      They will want you even for a short time for the results. And the often unfounded hope that they will be the one to keep you.

      Of course I speak as a high performer and he is likely talking to the mass of average.

      People Matter More Than Perks: A lot of things matter more than perks or even pay early in a career. People, Titles, Company Prestige, and etc can all help you in your career a lot more than $10, $20, or even $50k more a year. You want to maximize your pay but at the same time the fastest path to better pay may be the lower paying job. This is something that high performers know and understand.

      Map Effort to Your Professional Gain: Same idea on this one. You need to do things with the bigger picture in mind. Yeah you don't want to help your boss do ____ but the fact you did will score you points later.

      Speak Up, Not Out: If you wouldn't say it to your boss you shouldn't say it. Basically have some balls.

      You HAVE to Build Your Technical Chops: (Commentary aimed at what he said: I immediately toss a resume or cover letter that uses the word "ninja". Grow up and pretend you are not a 90's kid. I don't talk about robots all the time like an 80's kid could.)

      But yeah you need to know tech. Even if it has nothing to do with your job. My tech skills have been invaluable to me over the years.

      Both the Size and Quality of Your Network Matter: If someone wants a huge network and to give them all facetime that is fine. But like all time it is limited. Clearly the author here believes every moment should be work related. But for normal people just be real. I'm not big on networking. Never been my thing and I don't for one second believe it held me back. Hell I don't even drink so going out to a bar with co-workers is not something I ever wanted to do.

      As always Results Matter. The rest you can fumble through. If you are twice as productive as Jim no one will care that Jim was at every get together while you blew them off to drive your Corvette. But at the same time still be social and help your network but you don't have to do it the way he said.

      You Need At Least 3 Professional Mentors: I have not once in my life had a long term mentor. But I learn from everyone rather they are further ahead or somewhere behind me on the career ladder. Learning is the key.

      In a pure corporate world you may need mentors but that is about politics. And if the company promotes and pays based on politics why are you, a high achiever, sticking around?

      Pick an Idol & Act "As If": I like this idea. WWJD but more capitalistic.

      Read More Books, Fewer Tweets/Texts: Read more period. If tweets provide value read them. But do read more non-fiction books. 1 a month at least as he said.

      Spend 25% Less Than You Make: I think everyone here knows I disagree with this. Time is short and none of us know when our "time" will come. So spend your money and enjoy life. Just don't over spend. I bought a Corvette at 23 and have had 2 car payments most of my adult life. Most would think that was silly. But they are the ones who will buy a Corvette when they are 50 & 60 and wish they had done it sooner. So stop putting off living.

      Focus on cash flow. I can show everyone the math on why investing and saving is silly. Inflation simply keeps the earnings too low. So focus on increasing your cash flow as you get older. Don't save just because you plan to have no income besides savings at 65. That is a cash flow problem.

      Transferring money from today (saving/investing) to then is not a true solution. Making sure you have cash flow at 65 is the solution. It's a different but in my opinion smarter way to look at it.

      Your Reputation is Priceless, Don't Damage It: Unless you do something really stupid no one will remember it in 5 year let alone 10 or 20 years. Your reputation is not as big of a deal as he says. But by the same token you should be and act like the person you want to be. That alone should keep a good reputation (if you want that, a bad reputation could be better for some).
      Wow Aaron...

      Well..I don't argue online...but I'll just say...flat out...the early morning thing is true. It has nothing to do with forcing employees to do anything. If you get your team together early in the morning, you simply get more done. Period.

      I learned it in the corporate world. It was confirmed to me 100% in the military. And now in the business world it holds true. People argue and say "I'm not a morning person" - are just missing the boat. He's not talking about the one-man army who can do whatever they want.

      Hes talking about moving into a new career. Working as a team and proving yourself to the world. First in and last out is not about hours...its about working hard and doing more than the people around you.

      In a lean and mean startup, if ANYONE is just punching the clock, they are fired. I can't keep someone around who is not producing as much product per hour as possible. When someone gets there early and stays later producing - they get a raise. When times get lean and I have to let a few people go, the producers get to stay.

      And, wealthy people don't put their last 25% into things that lose value. Spend 25% less than you earn. Use that other 25% to knock out interest payments and put into things that will earn you more.


      .
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      Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle.
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      • Profile picture of the author SashaLee
        Originally Posted by Dan McCoy View Post

        In a lean and mean startup, if ANYONE is just punching the clock, they are fired.
        Hi there,

        Amen to that. Now, the difficult part is finding people who think like that. We just opened an office outside Atlanta USA and my task is to oversee the hiring of sales folks. I don't know if it's the city itself, or our high expectations but so far all our applicants think they know more than they do and are more interested in the clock-punch than the progression of their own abilities and skills.

        In Europe, we have no problem finding motivated individuals who understand that entry-level means just that - the opportunity to prove yourself and earn what you're worth.

        All the best,

        Sasha.
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        • Profile picture of the author DaniMc
          Originally Posted by SashaLee View Post

          Hi there,

          Amen to that. Now, the difficult part is finding people who think like that. We just opened an office outside Atlanta USA and my task is to oversee the hiring of sales folks. I don't know if it's the city itself, or our high expectations but so far all our applicants think they know more than they do and are more interested in the clock-punch than the progression of their own abilities and skills.

          In Europe, we have no problem finding motivated individuals who understand that entry-level means just that - the opportunity to prove yourself and earn what you're worth.

          All the best,

          Sasha.
          Hi Sasha - Have you considered bringing people in on a trial basis? They are at first brought in as a 1099 contractor.

          If they hit X,Y,Z metrics in the first two weeks - they can be brought on as real employee - commission only.

          Then, if they hit x,y,z metrics in the first month - they have the choice of a base + commission or keep full commission.

          You aren't even looking for the best seller - that can be taught I think. If you can just find people who will create x number of leads, document y number of conversations, and then z number of followups - you know you have someone with potential.
          Signature
          Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle.
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      • Profile picture of the author Aaron Doud
        Originally Posted by Dan McCoy View Post

        Wow Aaron...

        Well..I don't argue online...but I'll just say...flat out...the early morning thing is true. It has nothing to do with forcing employees to do anything. If you get your team together early in the morning, you simply get more done. Period.

        I learned it in the corporate world. It was confirmed to me 100% in the military. And now in the business world it holds true. People argue and say "I'm not a morning person" - are just missing the boat. He's not talking about the one-man army who can do whatever they want.

        Hes talking about moving into a new career. Working as a team and proving yourself to the world. First in and last out is not about hours...its about working hard and doing more than the people around you.

        In a lean and mean startup, if ANYONE is just punching the clock, they are fired. I can't keep someone around who is not producing as much product per hour as possible. When someone gets there early and stays later producing - they get a raise. When times get lean and I have to let a few people go, the producers get to stay.

        And, wealthy people don't put their last 25% into things that lose value. Spend 25% less than you earn. Use that other 25% to knock out interest payments and put into things that will earn you more.
        People have different times when they are most productive. Study after study have shown this. And while there are averages for groups of people those vary by age. It's the reason we shouldn't have teens start school at 8. If we started them at 10 the vast majority would do better.

        Now if you have a team that must function as a team there may be something in starting them all at a time that makes the most function well. But really stop and think about it. How many teams truly are like that? Most teams are made up of individuals getting their part done. Yes they need team time but that can be done once a week. But I wouldn't want to start the morning person at 8am if he is best starting at 6am any more than I would want to start a guy at 8am who isn't fully productive till 10am.

        That's not to say that all jobs can accommodate every schedule. But if I have a high achiever who works best 3rd shift you can bet I will find a way for him to work 3rd shift.

        I've never understood how anyone is missing the boat by not working early. Just do not get it. I understand if you are in sales you need to be there when the people who are buying are. But really ask yourselves (everyone who has should) how many sales did you make early. In sales environment after sales environment I have been in the peak is in the afternoon. So the early bird just got in to prepare for sales later in the day and there is nothing wrong with doing that. But why force someone to do that who works much better later?

        The "early to work = productive" idea is a myth. A myth based on some realities of our farming past. A past when you had to do it early for various reasons. But it is a myth when placed into the modern business world. There were multiple reasons that farmers got up at dawn to work and none of them had to do with it being more productive. It had to do with light, weather, heat, and the natural cycle of the animals. We should not be basing our business lives around rules of farming.

        And I am not talking about one man armies. I am talking about making each indivdual as productive as possible to move the team & company forward.

        "First In - Last Out" the way he ad most people describe it is about hours. I've done it myself. Be super productive for 3 hours and just milk the rest of the day. But leave after everyone else or at least the majority have. It's a great way to "score points" but it doesn't benefits you, your boss, the team, or the company. It is merely playing the game.

        Doing more than those around you is great and what you should strive for. It's what companies should want. But are those people rewarded? By paying based on what they do not how long they do it you can reward them. So the guy doing 3 times the work gets 3 times the pay. But the current business world continues to pay people based on hours. They still judge people by the number of hours they put in. And IMO productivity suffers.

        I've seen it first hand and I have tried to explain to my bosses how certain pay plans were promoting people to work slower. I won't name names or even say what company it was. But the staff was so afraid of having to work harder that they purposely came down hard on every new hire to get them to slow down. There simply was no incentive to work harder as any increase in pay they could gain would be offset by having to work harder for the same pay later.

        And I have friends in union companies that can tell similar stories that happen in factory jobs. And if you don't believe this happens I can show you a real world example of it. You imply need to visit one major factory of your choice that is union. Say John Deere, GM, or Ford for examples I have seen personally. Next you will tour the Jayco Jay Flight factory in Indiana.

        In the union factory you will see them moving slow. In the Jay Flight factory you will see people running. They actually call them the Amish mafia due to the fact they pressure anyone too slow to quit.

        So what is the difference? John Deere pays by the hour with a small reward for production. Jayco pays by the hour and sets realistic daily goals. Hitting those goals not only gets them bonuses. But they often leave early. That's right they build their 25 or so units and shut the line down. They get paid for their full hours plus they get the bonus.

        So working hard and fast is rewarded at Jayco. At John Deere on the other hand working your hours is rewarded. In fact due to overtime you are rewarded even more if it takes too long. Need 20? You don't speed up to get them done. You work normal speed and collect the overtime for anything over 8 hours (yes they get daily overtime).

        As for those a lean start up that all is great. But are you sure you wouldn't get three times the production in half the time if you didn't pay by the hour? I merely giving another way to think about it. Paying people based on what needs to be done vs. paying for their time. It will not work for every job. But wouldn't you rather know the fix cost to get _____ done vs. trying to figure out the average when John gets 2 per hour, Jane 4, and Steve 6? And shouldn't Steve make three times more than John since he is producing three times as much?

        It's fair to everyone except those who want to milk the clock. And honestly most of them don't want to milk the clock. They simply can do it faster and don't feel like doing three times the work for the same pay. And I personally believe most people work slower and fill their days with "busy work" because they are filling time. They likely are not even conscious of it.

        To use an example that Tim Ferris used think about it this way. Have you ever had a day right before your vacation where you seemed to get a weeks worth of work done? Why did you get so much done that day? And why don't you get that much done every day?

        Now what if you could get people to work like that every day? Wouldn't you want that? What I am suggestion can do that if implimented right. You simply set the quota, the per item pay, and the deadline. And if you want more you give them an amount they can do max. Say a quota of 8 due by 8 pm. They can do up to 10 if they want and you will pay $10 per. Think someone might be able to do those 10 in 4 hours vs. the normal 8 per 8 hours?

        I know I am getting a bit number crazy so I hope everyone could follow along with that.

        Finally what someone chooses to spend their money on is their choice. Their are multimillionaires who live like they are on welfare and their are guys making $150k per year driving Lambos. If they are happy and can afford to live that way I don't judge.

        What I do judge are those people I meet all the time who waited till they were 50 to buy their Corvette. They always wanted it. But they waited for a variety of reasons. And every single one of them when you really talk to them regrets it.

        I work in an RV dealership. I used to directly sell RVs most of my day. The worst part of the job was talking to the people who were buying their first RV after having waited for decades. They regret it.

        So what will you (to everyone) regret not buying or doing now? Could you afford to do it now if you stopped saving money to do it later? That is my point. If the only reason you are making money s to make money that is quite pointless. But most (if not all) people are making and saving money to do or buy things. And if they actually looked at the cost they likely could do or buy those things now. Because honestly if you can't afford it now you likely won't be able to save to afford it when you are older.

        Now I would never tell anyone to go into debt or buy something with a credit card. That is just silly. But if you want a sports car and can afford a$500 car payment why don't you buy one now. You could be dead two months from now. So why live in the future by saving when you can live in the now and enjoy life.

        And you know the great thing? You are motivated like hell to make more money if it will benefit you now vs. later.

        As for using the 25% to pay down interest? I don't have any besides my car payments. One car I would need either way and other than buying a cheap car I would likely always have a payment so I just figure that as a monthly bill to use the car. I simply don't lease due to the mileage I put on. As for the Corvette that is my fun budget. Many people I know spend more on getting drunk each month than I do on my Vette. Is mine worse because it has interest on it? I don't think so.

        As for using the 25% to invest that is fine if....
        1. You are not giving up things now for things later. Remember you may be dead in two months. Never give up something today to get it later. Find a way to have it now and have it later.
        2. You are sure that said investments will give you a return worth the money.

        Problem with that is that for most people it fails #1. In fact many people save and invest and then buy things on credit cards. Simple math here. Even if the investment makes 8% if they are paying 20% in interest they are losing. And that isn't figuring in inflation.

        I don't want anyone to have debt unless said debt is replacing a monthly bill such as a car lease and house rent or it is buying something they consider worth the monthly payment. And even then only if the interest and the payment are reasonable. That is why rent to own and credit card debt is bad. The interest and payments are not reasonable for the item you are getting.

        So if someone has extra cash put it to work for you. But I would never suggest traditional investments as the returns are too low and inflation is too high. You need to invest to increase cash flow not to increase wealth. The guy who has a cash flow of $1 million a year and negative net worth is better off than the guy with a net worth of $10 million but only $100,000 in yearly income. Too many people would say the opposite but that is because they don't understand how inflation work.

        Many of the people we think of as rich have net worth far lower than people would think. What they have instead is positive and growing cash flow that pays their debts. The rich know how to use other people's money for their gain. The poor become trapped in debt by using other people's money. And the middle class are the ones saving so the rich and the poor can borrow their money.

        The poor try to spend their way into feeling rich. Which leads to debt.
        The middle class try to save their way into feeling rich. Which leads to a delayed life.
        And the rich use their cash flow to actually live rich.

        The poor and the middle class could live good lives based on what their income is but they are not willing to live within their means. BTW some middle class people live like they are poor so include them in the poor group for what I meant.

        Ok I think I will end this mad rambling now. Hopefully that wasn't too confusing. My brain thinks much faster than I type so at times thoughts and connections are lost when I put them to page.

        EDIT: Just saw how long this was. Sorry for making a mountain of text lol
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  • Profile picture of the author SashaLee
    Hi Dan,

    We're currently doing that although the 1099 process eliminates many people I think. I don't understand US tax laws, so that's also a hurdle (my not understanding).

    We're currently letting go about 95% of the applicants every three weeks (we use three instead of two as a measuring tool).

    We'll find gold, I'm sure - it just takes time.

    All the best,

    Sasha.
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    • Sasha,
      Originally Posted by SashaLee View Post

      Hi Dan,

      We're currently doing that although the 1099 process eliminates many people I think. I don't understand US tax laws, so that's also a hurdle (my not understanding).

      We're currently letting go about 95% of the applicants every three weeks (we use three instead of two as a measuring tool).

      We'll find gold, I'm sure - it just takes time.

      All the best,

      Sasha.
      You are killing your own efforts. 1099 is strictly for Independent Contractors and means the individual is self-employed. It also means they can do work for you and then do work for your competitor and they are not required by law to disclose this information to you.

      You would be better served to put your new hires through a salaried 90 day process. Then you transition the sales personnel over to commission only. But make sure this is in writing or you will learn what Unemployment Arbitration is all about.

      3 weeks! Seriously!? Bear in mind it is your responsibility to train them and then evaluate them. That's why 30, 60, and 90 day evaluations work to build a strong sales force.

      I turned a failing franchise around and it took every bit of 8 months to bring the old staff around. It easily took 90-120 days for my new hires to really show they understood the process and became high producers.

      If you are judging those here based on your European culture and the way business is conducted in your country then you are in for a rude and disappointing experience.

      Not to mention that what you trained them to learn and do they can now go somewhere else with that knowledge and you've given your competitor the advantage.

      Good Luck!
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  • Profile picture of the author Aaron Doud
    Sasha

    Are you saying you are not hiring 95% of applicants or that you are firing 95% of the people you hire? If it is the second that is crazy.

    For me personally you eliminate long before they are hired. I hate turnover and the #1 way to eliminate turnover is to hire better from the start. #2 way is to make the job better than anything else they could leave it for. And that isn't just about pay in fact it is more about environment.

    As for the 1099 thing people do seem to hate it because they don't understand it. First you need to make sure that what you are hiring for can be a 1099. If you are setting their hours or anything like that the IRS will likely toss you into W2 fine hell so just start there.

    If they are truly independent then you can explain to them how 1099 allows them to write off their mileage, computer, phone, and etc. Explain how it allows them to be paid more but be taxed on less. For an outside sales person it is a huge advantage which is why anyone selling insurance will be a 1099.

    If the pay is good you can easily show them how being a 1099 is an advantage. If the pay is bad they will realize that after paying self employment tax they would be making too little so they would jump from it.

    Over all without knowing how you have things set up it is hard to know what is wrong. But if I read that right and you are losing 95% of the people you hire that is really bad. Turn and burn companies never do well and seldom can hire the best people as they get a reputation. Where companies with low turnover get the best trying to get hired even when they are not looking for help. Its the same as for an employee. Do you want to hire the guy who is currently working or the guy who has been out of work for a year?
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      ost companies hiring entry level workers have a set period of 60-90 days of training and evaluation.

      I don't know if it's the city itself, or our high expectations but so far all our applicants think they know more than they do and are more interested in the clock-punch than the progression of their own abilities and skills.
      Atlanta is a big business city - if you can't find good workers there, it's a problem in your approach, your salary or your expectations.

      Entry level in the US usually refers to salary and to skills level.
      We're currently doing that although the 1099 process eliminates many people I think. I don't understand US tax laws, so that's also a hurdle (my not understanding).
      You need to learn the laws before you hire if you are trying to hire entry level workers on a commission only basis. These are Independent Contractors and there are things you CAN'T do as am employer when you hire a commission only sales force.
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      • Profile picture of the author WilsonThomas
        That was a fun read. These are important principles we need to stress for the young adults of today. With the times changing so fast it's hard to keep up. The newer generation is under rapidly changing circumstances that us older folks didn't quite experience growing up. With the internet and information age it's both a blessing and a curse to the young people of today.
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  • Profile picture of the author Khalifa Malih
    Thank you Dan for sharing this article, you raised my moral.
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  • Profile picture of the author bsummers
    Read this article last week and one argument that it caused is the author said that social media is not a career. Do you agree?
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    Need help in LEADS for your business? Ask me on how to generate qualified and targeted leads from appointment setting and lead generation campaigns through calling, social media and email marketing.
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    • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
      Originally Posted by ThePromotionalGuy View Post

      3 weeks! Seriously!? Bear in mind it is your responsibility to train them and then evaluate them. That's why 30, 60, and 90 day evaluations work to build a strong sales force.
      I've fired people in less time than that. People that seem great on paper, awesome in an interview and then flat out don't perform.

      Hire slow... fire fast.
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      • iAmNameLess,
        Originally Posted by iAmNameLess View Post

        I've fired people in less time than that. People that seem great on paper, awesome in an interview and then flat out don't perform.

        Hire slow... fire fast.
        I appreciate your comments, however when firing people nowadays the Arbitration procedures can kill a business and more and more states are adopting laws that protect employees and punish the business owner.

        I've spent way to many times presenting documents to Arbitrators as to why this employee had to be terminated. The 30, 60 and 90 day evaluations protect the employer from disgruntled employees that have been let go.

        Also have an Operations Manual and Training Material that the employee must use during those first 90 days. This was something else I would bring along to show in the hearings that the employee used and signed off on in each section. This proved that the employee was taught, trained, and tested on his/her knowledge and understanding.

        Like an old wise COO once taught me, "DOCUMENT, DOCUMENT, DOCUMENT. It's the only proof you have that you did everything possible and this individual simply was not trainable, wouldn't follow instructions and would not comply with company practices.

        Even here in Florida, which is a right to work state, Arbitration for those fired or terminated from their jobs works against business owners and favors the terminated employee.

        My advice, Protect Your ASSets. DOCUMENT EVERYTHING or pay the price.
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        • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
          Originally Posted by ThePromotionalGuy View Post

          iAmNameLess,

          I appreciate your comments, however when firing people nowadays the Arbitration procedures can kill a business and more and more states are adopting laws that protect employees and punish the business owner.

          I've spent way to many times presenting documents to Arbitrators as to why this employee had to be terminated. The 30, 60 and 90 day evaluations protect the employer from disgruntled employees that have been let go.

          Also have an Operations Manual and Training Material that the employee must use during those first 90 days. This was something else I would bring along to show in the hearings that the employee used and signed off on in each section. This proved that the employee was taught, trained, and tested on his/her knowledge and understanding.

          Like an old wise COO once taught me, "DOCUMENT, DOCUMENT, DOCUMENT. It's the only proof you have that you did everything possible and this individual simply was not trainable, wouldn't follow instructions and would not comply with company practices.

          Even here in Florida, which is a right to work state, Arbitration for those fired or terminated from their jobs works against business owners and favors the terminated employee.

          My advice, Protect Your ASSets. DOCUMENT EVERYTHING or pay the price.

          Luckily, I live in a state where you can fire anybody for any reason or no reason at all. Which is kind of strange considering it is one of the most liberal states.
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          • Profile picture of the author SashaLee
            Originally Posted by iAmNameLess View Post

            Luckily, I live in a state where you can fire anybody for any reason or no reason at all. Which is kind of strange considering it is one of the most liberal states.
            Hi there,

            Yep, it's called an "employment at will" state, and that was one reason we established the company where we did. Hire slow, fire fast - while somewhat of a cliché, it's a good mantra to operate by if your company is one that comprises what people call "movers and shakers". Your momentum and productivity can be really soured by dragging your heels when it comes time to drop dead weight.

            All the best,

            Sasha
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  • Profile picture of the author VegasGreg
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    Greg Schueler - Wordpress Fanatic... Living The Offline Marketing Dream...

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  • Profile picture of the author TaylorRoss
    A good read!

    Thank you
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  • Nice material to go over again and again when ever it shows up in my life.

    Thanks for the useful resource, Dan.

    LLS
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  • Profile picture of the author misterme
    I've actually read material on WHY 20-somethings (millenials) act and think the way they do, so to be able to better tweak my marketing to them. Maybe adding this in to the mix will add some contextual insight to the conversation. I'm not quoting this source as gospel however, though it makes sense.

    It's as if we're dealing with another culture. Just like Western businesspeople had to learn the nuances of dealing with Japanese businesspeople in the 80's, so it goes with the millennials.

    Millennials grew up on digital and online, so rather than calling to speak with someone, they first gather all the information they seek and look there for their answers. Then after that recon do they call.

    But it's so normal for them to use texts and emails that the phone is not their preferred mode of communication.

    And because of the immediacy of texts and emails, they're used to getting super fast responses, not waiting hours to hear back from someone.

    They won't say "look it up on Google." That would be redundant to them.
    They'll simply say, "look it up."

    In school they were focused on participating in group work and that other views were acceptable, valid, and in hearing them all, and in making team decisions. So what appears to you as them questioning your expertise and offering up their inexperienced opinions, is to them their collaboration.

    That group think upbringing is the reason their peers' opinions matter to them.
    And because it's aligned to give immediate feedback from peers, social media is the perfect tool they embrace.
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  • Profile picture of the author Aaron Doud
    Dan the HBR article is not working. I could not find another location for it but found this summary of it.

    On Purpose Leadership - The Early Bird Really Does Get the Worm

    What I found interesting were these two lists.

    Common Traits of Morning People include:
    • Agreeable
    • Optimistic
    • Stable
    • Proactive
    • Conscientious
    • Satisfied with life
    Common Traits of Evening people include:
    • Creative
    • Intelligent
    • Humorous
    • Extroverted
    • Pessimistic
    • Neurotic
    • Depressed
    What's most interesting about them is that there are negatives and positives on each list. But the things I would most look for in my staff happen to be on the Evening people. In fact if the study really does say this it tells me not only do I want to personally be an evening person (I'm actually a late morning/afternoon person) but that I would want to hire people who were not morning people.

    Let's look at each trait and why I like or dislike each.

    Common Traits of Morning People include:
    • Agreeable: Agreeable on it's surface seems like something you would want. But I don't want to be surrounded by "yes men". I want to be challenged because discussion and being challenged by those around us is how we get better. Of course you don't want a jerk. But might it be that because these people are "agreeable" that they simply agree with the myth of early to rise? They simply agree with what their bosses want vs. thinking about what would be best for them?
    • Optimistic: Can't think of anything wrong with this one. But I can find this out in an interview. So if I can get the positives from the evening people but only hire the ones with positive attitudes I can get the best of both worlds.
    • Stable: Depending on how you define stable this could be good or bad. I like a staff that challenges the status quo. Ask me why I am doing something. Make me justify it to you and myself. Life only has one constant and that is change. I want people around me open to change and who will drive change.
    • Proactive: This is awesome but it is a learned trait. You can find people who are not morning people with this. So once again a good interview will help you find those with this.
    • Conscientious: I want people to produce quality. So this is good. But in life you must learn that good enough is what to aim for. Waiting for perfect is a fault. One I have and I am not a morning person. Once again you can interview for this.
    • Satisfied with life: I never want someone satisfied with life. They have to have a burning desire to be better. Of course you don't want them depressed either so you have to interview for a positive outlook and a desire for more.
    Common Traits of Evening people include:
    • Creative: Who doesn't want creative people who can find new ways to solve problems?
    • Intelligent: And have the intelligence to use that creativity well. These two together mean no micro managing.
    • Humorous: In sales and life there are few things that will get you further than humor. I'd say the first three here are three of the things I am always looking for in staff members.
    • Extroverted: I'm actually in the middle but slightly more introverted. I happen to be of the belief that neither is better and have read studies that what you want are those nearly in the middle.
    • Pessimistic: You can interview for positive attitudes and eliminate this.
    • Neurotic: Interview to eliminate.
    • Depressed: Interview to eliminate.
    As you can see from this list the negatives on one can easily be weeded out. And the same could be said for the other. I clearly have a bias. But then again I want people working when and however long they want to and need to in order to get the job done. So I am cool with morning people. I just will never be one.

    I think most people would actually be most productive in the 10am to 4pm range. And while I can't remember the studies I have seen some that pointed to this idea. Other than extreme night owls it allows most to be happy.

    The morning people can get their personal things done before work. Coming in recharged and ready to attack the day. The non-morning people will not be barely awake and not function for those first two hours. If you are selling it gives people time to get into the office and settled before you start calling them. You basically are starting your day once people have cleared their desk. Can't think of a better way to get their full attention, can you?

    But overall i think we need to let people work when they are best. We need to separate work from hours. I don't care how much you do per hour. I care about what you do for me no matter how little or much time it takes you. So why not pay people that way and let them schedule themselves?

    The only reason not to is if you have a personal bias toward mornings and bankers hours. But you should never let bias get in the way of making money.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jason Kanigan
    This has been a fun thread to follow. I have to say that while the days I start early are productive, what I tend to get done on those days are the grunt tasks.

    It's the 10:30PM "Holy Cow!" ideas that I have that keep me up until 4AM implementing that have made me real money. I've done a lot of video and content creation in those hours. During the morning, I never seem to feel as confident about it as I do at night.
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  • Profile picture of the author Stephen Root
    That follows pretty much my pattern. I used to sleep long, now at my 30s I wake up early to get more done. When I was still working as an employee I was enough talented that I just did the needed stuff quickly and still got praised. After jumping to entrepreneurship I got a so called cold shower. Action kicks talents butt. I've seen so many people who don't appear very intelligent but they get stuff done. Everything can be learned from books, you just need to do the implementation which is always the hardest part.

    Another important thing is the reputation. I don't think young people put enough thought into what they say or post publicly. I know I didn't but thank god earlier it was all IRC channels, nicknames and some random forums that have all died long time ago. And it's not just that you post something dumb like "my boss is a dick". It's that if all your photos you publicly share are photos of you partying and drinking it will give me a certain mental image of you.
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    • Profile picture of the author Aaron Doud
      Originally Posted by Stephen Root View Post

      Another important thing is the reputation. I don't think young people put enough thought into what they say or post publicly. I know I didn't but thank god earlier it was all IRC channels, nicknames and some random forums that have all died long time ago. And it's not just that you post something dumb like "my boss is a dick". It's that if all your photos you publicly share are photos of you partying and drinking it will give me a certain mental image of you.
      I have friends like that on my Facebook feed and it's pretty clear why they are also always complaining about money and working two jobs/etc.

      But I don't think it hurts their reputation long term. It is merely that their reputation is clearly the reality. But a mistake here or there will not harm most people long term. As a society we like come backs and turn around stories.

      It takes something really big and bad to harm you long term. And even then will it really? Think of how many celebs come back from things like rape, racism, and etc. Only harms them in the short term. In a few years no one cares. Of course something hidden in your past can harm you when it comes forward. But once it is out it loses power as time goes on.
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    • Profile picture of the author DaniMc
      Originally Posted by Stephen Root View Post

      After jumping to entrepreneurship I got a so called cold shower. Action kicks talents butt. I've seen so many people who don't appear very intelligent but they get stuff done.
      Truth!

      I'd rather have 1 hard-working take-action worker than 3 highly talented people who struggle to execute.
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      Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle.
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  • Profile picture of the author maxfactor
    Thanks for sharing this. I love reading this kind of stuff. Useful tips, as you say, for everyone, not just 20-year-olds. For Spend 25% Less Than You Make I would humbly add, "and invest the 25% in something with a good return". Put compounding to work for you early. You'll thank yourself later.
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  • Profile picture of the author James Fame
    Some points I don't agree with, but a majority of the points are surprisingly insightful. Thanks for the share, enjoyed the read!

    James Fame
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    Fire me a pm if you have a question. I build businesses and provide consulting. I do not do finance/money/internet marketing niches. Fitness, self-improvement and various others are welcome.

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  • Profile picture of the author Abitha
    Wow!!I really like it. These words are really true. "The most guaranteed path to success is to emulate those who’ve achieved what you seek. You should always have at least 3 people you call mentors who are where you want to be. Their free guidance and counsel will be the most priceless gift you can receive."
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  • Profile picture of the author mediamarket
    That goes for any age really, it depends how far along your understanding on the subject is,
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