My Direct Mail Strategy $100.000 In 90 Days

Throw it away.

Unless it is the bank, or something I am waiting for -- it goes straight to the trash.

You are overestimating your conversion rates. Don't want to discourage you, but any of the experts in here, probably will agree.

Best of Luck Though! The hardest step is always the 1st, which is to take action.

Thanks
2 replies

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8350260].message }}

Andrew Vozar

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Trent English

My first question is...how on earth are you expecting an open rate of 95%?

Originally Posted by Norbi

Throw it away.

Unless it is the bank, or something I am waiting for -- it goes straight to the trash.

You are overestimating your conversion rates. Don't want to discourage you, but any of the experts in here, probably will agree.

Best of Luck Though! The hardest step is always the 1st, which is to take action.

Throw it away? I don`t do that... you do! So who has the right now? Most people opens all of their mailings, especially when its something strange they never seen before not like "eye surgey" "loan application" you know what I mean. When I see a mail (full colored envelope) saying "get this loan now" that obviously landing in the bin straight away. I knowing this things I designed a totally different mail which is stands out!

Well... It may looks overestimated, but it isn`t really. From 20K mail you can expact 20% opt in rate.

By the way are you Hungarian?

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8350315].message }}

Robert Domino

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Norbi

Throw it away.

Unless it is the bank, or something I am waiting for -- it goes straight to the trash.

You are overestimating your conversion rates. Don't want to discourage you, but any of the experts in here, probably will agree.

I don't agree at all.

Certain types of direct mail get an insane open rate. One thing I started doing is pink letters. Prospects even TOLD me that's why they opened it and read it.

95% I agree is pretty high because lists aren't very accurate, but I can see 80%+ open rate.

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8367531].message }}

Greg guitar

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Robert Domino

I don't agree at all.

Certain types of direct mail get an insane open rate. One thing I started doing is pink letters. Prospects even TOLD me that's why they opened it and read it.

95% I agree is pretty high because lists aren't very accurate, but I can see 80%+ open rate.

Fair enough but why did pink make them open it, and what happens after they open it? I suspect the pink color gets it opened because people have seen it on "urgent" envelopes from bill collectors. The same reason subject lines like "Where Do We Send Your Refund Check?" get opened; they fool people into opening.

Anyway, how many people told you that; is it sufficient to be considered a "random sample", and would you even know what percent you need to generalize responses across the entire list?

Not that it really matters; the only number that counts and is measurable is response, and ultimately, the real numbers that matter are sales, and more to the point, profit. If pink measurably increased profits, great.

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8526603].message }}

TeamBringIt 12 years ago

Originally Posted by Andrew Vozar

Easy... if you get a letter do you open it or throw it away? Of course you`re open it. Remember its not an email...

I wish, something like this was true. In reality, over 50-70% of letters end up in the trash and not opened....
- Thanks
- 1 reply
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8354834].message }}
- Mr. Subtle 12 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by TeamBringIt
  
  I wish, something like this was true. In reality, over 50-70% of letters end up in the trash and not opened....
  
  Actually it's much less. According to the latest data 34.1% of letter-sized envelopes are discarded unopened.
  
  [ 1 ] Thanks
  
  Signature
  
  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8355209].message }}

datingworld

12 years ago

Delivery = £1500

20K mails

What sources are you using to deliver 20K mails with only 1500 pounds? Just curious

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

Free Private Label Dating Guide Book _ _ _ _ _ The Best Dating Affiliate Program

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8350302].message }}

Andrew Vozar 12 years ago

Originally Posted by datingworld

What sources are you using to deliver 20K mails with only 1500 pounds? Just curious

Kids.
And I offer them a small commission for sales I make. This is how I protect those mails... its their business as well.
- Thanks
- 1 reply
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8350331].message }}
- bizgrower 12 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Andrew Vozar
  
  Kids.
  And I offer them a small commission for sales I make. This is how I protect those mails... its their business as well.
  
  This is not legal in the US, so maybe something to look into for where you plan to mail.
  
  Thanks
  
  Signature
  
  "If you think you're the smartest person in the room, then you're probably in the wrong room."
  
  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8352247].message }}

Eddie Spangler

12 years ago

I know you are all gun-ho about this empower network thing and this plan but you will be lucky IF and I do mean lucky IF 10 people sign up.
Save your time and money and seek out a real opportunity and not some BS pie in the sky pyramid scheme.

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

Promise Big.
Deliver Bigger.

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8350321].message }}

Andrew Vozar

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Eddie Spangler

I know you are all gun-ho about this empower network thing and this plan but you will be lucky IF and I do mean lucky IF 10 people sign up.
Save your time and money and seek out a real opportunity and not some BS pie in the sky pyramid scheme.

I know your business is the best all of the forum should join to you! I`m in! Where to join? LOL

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8350339].message }}

Eddie Spangler 12 years ago

Originally Posted by Andrew Vozar

I know your business is the best all of the forum should join to you! I`m in! Where to join? LOL

Send me $500 and I will show you how to make 200k in 90 days.
Really..for realI mean after all a dreamer like you will believe ANYTHING right?
- Thanks
- 1 reply
Signature

Promise Big.
Deliver Bigger.
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8350354].message }}
- Andrew Vozar 12 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Eddie Spangler
  
  Send me $500 and I will show you how to make 200k in 90 days.
  Really..for realI mean after all a dreamer like you will believe ANYTHING right?
  
  No thanks dude!
  
  Thanks
  
  1 reply
  
  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8350368].message }}
  
  Abul-Hussain 12 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Andrew Vozar
  
  No thanks dude!
  
  As someone who has sent out hundreds of thousands of pieces of direct mail in the UK, I can confidently say that you are kidding yourself!
  
  You should be lucky to get a net conversion rate of 1% from a cold list.
  
  95% open rate for letters? The pros struggle to get 20%!
  
  In your original post you missed one critical step -> the action from getting the letter to logging onto your website. That's another huge step in the conversion process, where people will drop off significantly.
  
  The UK is also a more skeptical market than the US, so we need double the "empowerment" to even sign up for a Free Trial!
  
  You're better off investing your money on online marketing [PPC, Solos, Banners, etc].
  
  Good luck!
  
  Abul
  
  [ 1 ] Thanks
  
  Signature
  Author | Speaker | Digital Marketing Coach
  
  I help ordinary people achieve extraordinary results online. Get in touch to see how we can help you build a 6 figure business.
  
  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8353191].message }}

TakenAction

12 years ago

No way in hell you will receive anything close to 95% open rate.

Thanks

Signature

The best thing you can do is put yourself out there.

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8350324].message }}

James Foster

12 years ago

The thing is... people sort their mail over the garbage can.

95% never even gets opened.

If the conversation were said out loud it would sound like this: "trash, trash, trash, bill, trash, bill, coupon, trash, trash, trash"

The best direct response companies IN THE WORLD get around 1% response rate from their direct mail.

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8350347].message }}

TakenAction

12 years ago

No ones trying to be an ass to you man, I think we all just feel like you should know some real stats about what you're trying to do.

Like said above, you wont get more than 1% response rate at best. (far off from what you think you will get, 95%)

When I first started I thought cold direct mailing could pull 50% response rate. You live and you learn.

You need to get out of your fantasy though and realize the truth about your campaign and go from there.

Thanks

Signature

The best thing you can do is put yourself out there.

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8350366].message }}

Voasi

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Andrew Vozar

Hey Folks, Andrew here...
Opening rate (sky high) 95-98% - roughly 19000
Opt in rate (if convert really badly) 15-25% - roughy 4000
Conversion rate (if converts really badly) 1-3% - roughly lowes 400 (that is 1%)

I do direct mail, and do it well with a $6+ to $1 ROI and I can tell you these numbers are WAY OFF.

No way you're getting an open-rate of 95%. Most are lucky to get a double-digit open rate.

Sending people to a website is another big drop-off. Having someone call usually has a higher conversion rate, but traditionally, you lose people having them go to a website and perform another action.

We have a high conversion rate, around 40-60%, but that's with follow-up. We don't wait for them to call us, we call them and talk about our mailer we sent.

I'm all for testing and I NEVER claim to have all the numbers without proper testing, but from my experience and from other Warriors who have been doing mailers for 40+ years, these numbers are VERY EXAGGERATED.

[ 1 ] Thanks
2 replies

Signature

Want $6,000/mo. SEO Clients? Watch My Free Video!

Page 1 Link Building: Finally, Linking That Works, because I do it! Pagerank 5 Homepage Links!!

We do WSO Designs TOO!!! Best on WF! - Click Here

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8350404].message }}

Andrew Vozar

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Voasi

I do direct mail, and do it well with a $6+ to $1 ROI and I can tell you these numbers are WAY OFF.

No way you're getting an open-rate of 95%. Most are lucky to get a double-digit open rate.

Sending people to a website is another big drop-off. Having someone call usually has a higher conversion rate, but traditionally, you lose people having them go to a website and perform another action.

We have a high conversion rate, around 40-60%, but that's with follow-up. We don't wait for them to call us, we call them and talk about our mailer we sent.

I'm all for testing and I NEVER claim to have all the numbers without proper testing, but from my experience and from other Warriors who have been doing mailers for 40+ years, these numbers are VERY EXAGGERATED.

If you are doing it long time a go you must have the experiance and know what you talking about. This is the first helpful reply for my post.

Well I will try it and tweak it try and tweak...

[ 1 ] Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8350439].message }}

Greg guitar

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Andrew Vozar

If you are doing it long time a go you must have the experiance and know what you talking about. This is the first helpful reply for my post.

Well I will try it and tweak it try and tweak...

Why should anyone help you next time around? You just crapped on all the help you got, except the one guy, and you came in asking for opinions, taking the time of generous Warriors who know far more than you, and are kind enough to try to bring you down to Earth gently. The funny thing is, he's repeating what the others said, but I guess since he mentioned his credentials, you're impressed.

Since you're apparently selling that thinly disguised pyramid scheme, it's better you ignore all the good advice anyway.

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8523331].message }}

FitMarketer

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Voasi

I do direct mail, and do it well with a $6+ to $1 ROI and I can tell you these numbers are WAY OFF.

No way you're getting an open-rate of 95%. Most are lucky to get a double-digit open rate.

Sending people to a website is another big drop-off. Having someone call usually has a higher conversion rate, but traditionally, you lose people having them go to a website and perform another action.

We have a high conversion rate, around 40-60%, but that's with follow-up. We don't wait for them to call us, we call them and talk about our mailer we sent.

I'm all for testing and I NEVER claim to have all the numbers without proper testing, but from my experience and from other Warriors who have been doing mailers for 40+ years, these numbers are VERY EXAGGERATED.

Thanks for posting a useful and helpful answer for the OP.

Instead of shutting him down you are offering helpful advice from experience. Its great to have Warriors like you on the forum

Thanks

Signature

Undercover Solo Ads Coaching
One on One Coaching at an AFFORDABLE price
Make Money from First Week with ZERO Subscribers!

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8365029].message }}

mrmatt

12 years ago

I've done a ton of direct mail.

Highly targeted lists, with highly targeted message (to people with big problems that I could fix), with strong copy and testimonials, as well as hand written envelopes for maximum open rate. I was very very happy if I broke over a 1% response rate.

Your numbers are totally unrealistic as everyone has pointed out. Find a better more profitable way to spend your $2500.

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8350460].message }}

SashaLee

12 years ago

Hi there,

You didn't ask for help, you asked for opinions.

Listen to View Profile: Voasi and others on here. You will not get even close to a 95% open unless you trick the recipient into opening the letter, in which case you'll have about 50% of them trash it out of annoyance at being tricked.

Further, you don't even know who your target market is. You don't know if they'll even be receptive to your message, or whether the media you're using is how they'd like to be contacted (since you don't even know who they are).

You plan is not ambitious, it's poorly planned, poorly thought out and will be the biggest waste of your money as you've described it above.

Partner with someone who has knowledge of this arena and you might be able to protect your investment.

Oh - and at the rate you're paying these kids most of your messages will end up in the river or will end up as wrappers for whatever kids smoke these days.

All the best,

Sasha.

[ 1 ] Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8350500].message }}

TheBigBee 12 years ago

Originally Posted by SashaLee

Hi there,

You didn't ask for help, you asked for opinions.

Sasha.

Ohhhhh Sasha...
- Thanks
Signature

FILL IN THE BLANKS!
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8351188].message }}

Mr. Subtle

12 years ago

I LOL when onliners move over to direct mail and talk "open rates." It's something never discussed by direct mail pros because there is no way to track "open rates" in direct mail. You can test envelopes and the results are filtered down to response rates, but there isn't a single direct mail pro who can tell you the "open rate" to any direct mail campaign using an envelope.

[ 9 ] Thanks
1 reply

Signature

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8350593].message }}

Its Trish

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Mr. Subtle

I LOL when onliners move over to direct mail and talk "open rates." It's something never discussed by direct mail pros because there is no way to track "open rates" in direct mail. You can test envelopes and the results are filtered down to response rates, but there isn't a single direct mail pro who can tell you the "open rate" to any direct mail campaign using an envelope.

It's true, in DM (direct mail) open rates cannot be measured directly. But you can get a good idea indirectly by running a test, see below.

Originally Posted by Mr. Subtle

but there isn't a single direct mail pro who can tell you the "open rate" to any direct mail campaign using an envelope.

Sure we can. Sort of. I can tell you that the open rate for mailing piece XYZ is 30% better than the open rate for mailing piece ABC. You simply run a "test piece" against your "control piece" (in the same mailing drop) with the test piece having a different envelope teaser. During a phone order, the telephone order taker can determine from which piece the customer is ordering from. (by asking for the keycode / tracking code located on the mailing label)

General info on the DM testing process:

Measuring "Response Rate" begins when the telephone order operator asks the customer "Can you tell me the 4-digit number at the top right corner of your address label?" and then types that tracking number (aka "keycode") into the system. The order entry software will do all the measuring and fancy graph making later. (Btw, keycode tracking is also used to see how well a new test list works against a know list)

DM marketers always have a "Control Piece" which is simply the mailing piece that works the best, so far. And, every time they do a mailing drop, they run a new "Test Piece" against their control piece. In the same mailing. The test piece should only have 1 difference from the control piece. (e.g. pricepoint, or envelope teaser, or special bonus, etc) And anytime a DM marketer discovers a test piece that performs better than their control piece, then bam! that test piece becomes the new control piece. (we're always striving to improve our control piece) We dropped 70k catalogs per month for 5 years so I became quite familiar with testing.

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8370391].message }}

Mr. Subtle

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Its Trish

It's true, in DM (direct mail) open rates cannot be measured directly. But you can get a good idea indirectly by running a test, see below.
...

Sure we can. Sort of. I can tell you that the open rate for mailing piece XYZ is 30% better than the open rate for mailing piece ABC. You simply run a "test piece" against your "control piece" (in the same mailing drop) with the test piece having a different envelope teaser.

Sorry, but you are WRONG. You can not tell the "open rate" of any direct mail campaign. What you're piking above is RESPONSE RATE.

If you mail 1,000 letters and get a 1% response and then test another envelope using your example and get 30% better response (rate) you jumped from getting 10 orders to 13. It tells you absolutely nothing about open rates. You have no idea if the new envelope was opened by more or less people than the old envelope, the only thing you know is the new envelope got you more orders than the old one.

[ 1 ] Thanks

Signature

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8376388].message }}

Jonwebb

12 years ago

I don't know about this open rate stuff....

Response rates vary, but anywhere between 1-6% is excepted. Anything more then that is great. I've seen combined response rates as high as 30% but that was a mailing sequence as apposed to a single one shot.

Ether way good luck,

Jonathan Webb

Thanks

Signature

"How to value a business or Website for purchase"

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8350920].message }}

Rearden

12 years ago

Originally Posted by mediamarket

Theres near impossible to have an open rate of 95%?

Hand-written envelopes and official-looking, government-looking envelopes typically boost open rate.

But ultimately the result almost directly reflects itself in response rate.

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

David Duford -- Providing On-Going, Personalized Mentorship And Training From A Real Final Expense Producer To Agents New To The Final Expense Life Insurance Business.

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8351806].message }}

Claude Whitacre

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Andrew Vozar

Which areas would be the best to send those letters to?

Wealthy areas?
Mid Class areas?
Poor areas?

Basically its a "how to make money product" so I`m a bit confused...
Wealthy people already makes good money so they are not desperate about money.

Mid Class people (I think the best) they are not swimming in money (if you know what I mean) but they has some money to invest.

Poor people NEED MONEY!!! and its only 25 bucks you know what I mean...

If you have any opinion please share it with me!

Andrew!

Andrew; You mean you are planning on sending this offer to a cold list who have never heard from you before?

I'm very sorry, man...but by the way you are talking, you have no experience whatsoever in direct mail...or copywriting...or picking a list.

This isn't about positive thinking...Direct mail is a science.

Why is it that on this forum, I repeatedly read about guys spending a ton of money on a direct mail campaign...when they don't even have the most basic understanding of how it works?

Is this really an MLM offer?

I just threw up a little.

Young man. I hope you didn't spend your money yet, but if you did...it will be a learning experience for you.

[ 5 ] Thanks
2 replies

Signature

One Call Closing book https://www.amazon.com/One-Call-Clos...=1527788418&sr

What if they're not stars? What if they are holes poked in the top of a container so we can breath?

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8351833].message }}

SashaLee 12 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

Young man. I hope you didn't spend your money yet, but if you did...it will be a learning experience for you.

Hi there,

Claude, unfortunately he'll not learn a thing and then will blame direct mail saying "It doesn't work" or "It's old school".

All the best,

Sasha
- Thanks
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8352094].message }}

bizgrower

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

Is this really an MLM offer?

I just threw up a little.

Young man. I hope you didn't spend your money yet, but if you did...it will be a learning experience for you.

"I just threw up a little. " Best summary of this whole scheme, especially
if it is the MLM thing.

Dan

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

"If you think you're the smartest person in the room, then you're probably in the wrong room."

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8356846].message }}

DABK 12 years ago

Hey, Andrew

I've got 2 options for you that will produce the same results your plan will PLUS a bonus:

a. Donate the £2500 to the DABK Enhanced Happiness Fund, where it will be spent judiciously on raising the world's happiness quotient, one marketer at a time

b. Just fork it over. There's a $995 750 ml bottle of Whiskey I've been meaning to imbibe and have been waiting for some easy money

On a serious note: the first time I sent letters, I got 89 letters = 1 sale. Like you, I had 95% opening rate but, alas, woe it's me and all that, the only thing that mattered was how many people bought.

Unlike you, the letter was sent to condominium owners who were in 30-45, husbands and wives worked too much, had kids under 10 at home, had a likely income of $50k to $80k... so said the list broker... And, they were in my neighborhood and most of the neighbors I saw were like that, I believed him.
- Thanks
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8356972].message }}

Andrew Vozar

12 years ago

Wow...

Many responses, cool! Well I don`t have experiance in direct mailing but I can`t get the experiance if I don`t try! If I get 5% response that is fine for me! What does that mean?
That is 1000 opt ins to my list. Happy days!

By the way bare in mind I`m in UK... I think most of you from US. I don`t know how things goes there but we are not getting lots of direct mail adverts. Seriously!
I can`t remember the time I get a mail trying to advertise something to me. Sooo.
Will see guys, thanks for your opinion anyway!

Thanks
4 replies

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8352894].message }}

zimbizee

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Andrew Vozar

Wow...

By the way bare in mind I`m in UK... I think most of you from US. I don`t know how things goes there but we are not getting lots of direct mail adverts. Seriously!
I can`t remember the time I get a mail trying to advertise something to me. Sooo.
Will see guys, thanks for your opinion anyway!

Well i'm in the UK and our letterbox gets loads of pieces of mail per week with companies trying to either sell or sign upto something or other, they all go straight in the trash.

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8352969].message }}

Arzak

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Andrew Vozar

Wow...

Many responses, cool! Well I don`t have experiance in direct mailing but I can`t get the experiance if I don`t try! If I get 5% response that is fine for me! What does that mean?
That is 1000 opt ins to my list. Happy days!

*facepalm*

Andrew, I know what you're thinking. It makes sense that lots of people will open mail, right? The thing is that a lot of things that seem logical aren't.

Would you think that the Sahara desert is made of mostly sand?

You'd be wrong! Fun fact: it's only about 20% sand. The rest is bare rock.

You're very enthusiastic but at the same time you're expecting too much too soon! Listen to these guys, and if you still insist on sending those letters out, at least look into copywriting. Your letter probably won't convert as well as you think

. Oh and then tell us how it goes.

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8353168].message }}

Claude Whitacre

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Andrew Vozar

Wow...

Many responses, cool! Well I don`t have experiance in direct mailing but I can`t get the experiance if I don`t try! If I get 5% response that is fine for me! What does that mean?
That is 1000 opt ins to my list. Happy days!

Andrew; a 5% response to a cold list? Not even a cold compiled list of a specific niche..just "people"? Maybe you'll become famous...because you'd be the first.

You don't need to keep mailing to learn the basics of direct mail. For $100, you can get a good direct mail library from Amazon...and learn what you need to know. There is no need to go into this blind.

Ever fly an airplane? You don't just get in the seat and "give it a try". There is a lot to learn before you ever get in the plane. It's like that with direct mail.

Thanks

Signature

One Call Closing book https://www.amazon.com/One-Call-Clos...=1527788418&sr

What if they're not stars? What if they are holes poked in the top of a container so we can breath?

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8354663].message }}

krchmar

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Andrew Vozar

Wow...

Many responses, cool! Well I don`t have experiance in direct mailing but I can`t get the experiance if I don`t try! If I get 5% response that is fine for me! What does that mean?
That is 1000 opt ins to my list. Happy days!

By the way bare in mind I`m in UK... I think most of you from US. I don`t know how things goes there but we are not getting lots of direct mail adverts. Seriously!
I can`t remember the time I get a mail trying to advertise something to me. Sooo.
Will see guys, thanks for your opinion anyway!

Responses here doesn't have anything to do with you plan to earn money, and if you think someone will pay you to join your "pyramid scam", you are dead wrong pal. People want to "work to earn", not "pay to earn". So get your head straight, because I think you are on some drugs or something, and do some "real" work.

Thanks

Signature

If you wish to know how I earn for living, check the link here:

http://http://ultimaterouletteguide.siterubix.com/

I assure you, it will make you live your life with ease.

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8531984].message }}

payoman

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Andrew Vozar

I haven`t achieved it yet.

Stopped reading right here.

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8352904].message }}

KMalo

12 years ago

1. Royal mail charge £0.50 per letter for second class delivery, so your delivery costs on that basis would be £10,000, not £1500

2. Even if you use a franking machine, the cost is still £0.33 per letter, still making your delivery costs £6,600

3. How on earth can you track the open rates of a letter? You can't, there is no possible way to track this. As others have said, where physical letters are concerned you can only track response rates.

4. If you're getting a leaflet distribution firm to deliver your mailings, rather than using Royal mail, then that must mean your letters are addressed as "to the Occupant" or something else equally generic and impersonal. Everybody knows that a letter addressed to "the occupant" is nothing more than an annoying sales letter, which means it will be quickly ripped up and thrown in the bin This fact will further reducing your opening rates to what I suspect will be a vanishingly small percentage.

You clearly have drive and are motivated to do something, but this is NOT it.

Originally Posted by Andrew Vozar

Hey Folks, Andrew here...
So lets work out how much this campaign cost me and what do I expect from it.

Envelopes + Papers + Printer Inks = £1000
Delivery = £1500

Total investment: £2500

Lets work out the ROI, based on our records and numbers (roughly)

20K mails

Opening rate (sky high) 95-98% - roughly 19000
Opt in rate (if convert really badly) 15-25% - roughy 4000
Conversion rate (if converts really badly) 1-3% - roughly lowes 400 (that is 1%)

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8353163].message }}

rizy

12 years ago

Is it impossible to make 100,000 in 90 days via Offline Direct Mail.

HELL NO!

But will your method get the job done?

HELL NO!

What method will get the job done?

BOB ROSS (not by itself, you must tweak it)

Good luck!

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8353264].message }}

Mr. Subtle

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Andrew Vozar

Yesterday we had a webinar with our mentor Vick and he was braking down for us how he will going to earn 1 million bucks a month in the next 90 days and its just fired me up big time! It is so simple to do. By the way we are BIG IDEA MASTERMIND... yeah baby!

I hope the information you're getting from this "MASTERMIND" is free. Fortunately the vast majority of people won't act on it and will end up saving themselves thousands of pounds/dollars. The few who will act on it are going to be spanked royally.

Thanks

Signature

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8355226].message }}

Richard Tunnah

12 years ago

Andrew,
I've direct mailed in the UK before and your costs and envisaged results are way out as many have stated.
Firstly I strongly suggest you look at renting a qulaity list of mlm seekers or business opportunity seekers. I've used this company : List Search | Hilite Direct Marketing Services[]=Direct+Mail

Base price is £185 per 1,000 with a minimum of 5,000. Add in your mailing costs and stationary costs then you may struggle to stay within your budget unless you find a list broker that will rent smaler quanities and you start smaller. Problem is then that you may not make your money back on the first mailing, or second..third and so on until you master the type of stationary and copy that works.

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8355536].message }}

TeamBringIt

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Richard Tunnah

Andrew,
I've direct mailed in the UK before and your costs and envisaged results are way out as many have stated.
Firstly I strongly suggest you look at renting a qulaity list of mlm seekers or business opportunity seekers. I've used this company : List Search | Hilite Direct Marketing Services[]=Direct+Mail

Base price is £185 per 1,000 with a minimum of 5,000. Add in your mailing costs and stationary costs then you may struggle to stay within your budget unless you find a list broker that will rent smaler quanities and you start smaller. Problem is then that you may not make your money back on the first mailing, or second..third and so on until you master the type of stationary and copy that works.

Exactly, he's looking at mailing x amounts of envelopes..which may get opened or not..then the letter inside. These types, of campaigns can drain your bank account.....QUICK!

Problems:
People opening, that envelope and NOT throwing it in trash (Like, people clicking on your email and opening)
People, reading the letter and taking next step/action (Like, people reading your email and clicking on the link inside)

Start out, with smaller pieces and test everything. Test, the envelopes and make sure they get opened. Test, the salesletter/letter and make sure it works.
Doing this, will save you thousands and believe me...you do not want to burn money in direct mail, it is WAY too easy to do....

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8355594].message }}

Doran Peck

12 years ago

Firstly scrap the idea of sending out the whole 20k at one time.

Secondly consider using post cards for your first small segmented mailings....this way you circumvent the whole extra step of "opening" anything, they will just see your headline and content regardless.

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8355885].message }}

JohnJMJKEnterprises

12 years ago

I saw that the guy that runs this thing actually encourages this approach. It is a great outcome for him, he gets his word out there at other people's expense though.

You can wish for the very best to happen, but unless you find out a way to get 98% to open your letter, your numbers are already WAYYY off.

I'd say... If you already have 20k mails sitting there ready to go... Go out and spend more on 20k pink bow ties and then you might have a chance of getting your open rate up there.

And they are more likely to take you seriously about the pink bow tie, rather than the pyramid scheme you are trying to pitch them on if you know what I mean.

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8356970].message }}

Claude Whitacre

12 years ago

Originally Posted by JohnJMJKEnterprises

I saw that the guy that runs this thing actually encourages this approach. It is a great outcome for him, he gets his word out there at other people's expense though.

So this is an MLM? A couple decades ago, a "friend" of mine had the same idea...and the MLM CEO sold the mailing pieces, which meant that was really the business he was in. Everyone in the downline did the same thing. direct mail to cold lists.

They were little booklets. We bought them, paid for the list, and postage, and mailed 5,000 of them. It cost me a tad over $5,000.

Not one response. Of course, now I laugh about it. Why would they respond? They didn't know me. They expressed no interest in MLM. They were not qualified in any way.

I was buying printing. If one person in 10,000 signed up...my upline would be happy. What a moron I was.

To the OP. If you already paid for printing...but not mailing...mail 100 at a time. After a few hundred mailings...you'll catch on.

Originally Posted by Andrew Vozar

Yesterday we had a webinar with our mentor Vick and he was braking down for us how he will going to earn 1 million bucks a month in the next 90 days and its just fired me up big time! It is so simple to do. By the way we are BIG IDEA MASTERMIND... yeah baby! So as I said I`m fired up about it. I decided I will do 10th of this so aiming to earn 100K recurring monthly income in the next 90 days.

Did your friend make his "Million" this month?

Man, I can just picture all of this. Very young inexperienced guys with no direct mail knowledge among any of them...and now they are going to make a million a month. From a dead start. With no training.

It's so sad, I can't even laugh.

[ 3 ] Thanks

Signature

One Call Closing book https://www.amazon.com/One-Call-Clos...=1527788418&sr

What if they're not stars? What if they are holes poked in the top of a container so we can breath?

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8358206].message }}

fandbworld

12 years ago

I too used to do ridiculous conversions like this in my head. Then I tested and it was not the outcome. Just don't do all these calculations and predicted outcomes without having anything to base it off of.

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8358062].message }}

4q

12 years ago

Your mentor Vick, would that be Vick Strizeus.....?

If not, never mind, if so, you should know he's a convicted fraudster and still on parole!

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8359643].message }}

Wyteria Jacobo 12 years ago

I say this from a place of love.

First, you should only be sending your message to people who have already raised their hands and said they're looking for a biz op preferably they've already invested in one before.
Second, cheap, ugly postcards perform wayyy better in the biz op market. Notice I didn't say anything about the glossy hype kind most biz-opp companies try to sell you. Heck, you can even go out and print them yourself for about $15-20 buks per 1000 if you have your own printer at home and an office supply store.

Third, always put a website and a 24hr recorded message line on there and tell them it's a 24. hr recorded line, too. Most people are highly skeptical of biz ops even if they've bought into one in the past and some are afraid to talk to someone they don't know.
Expect a 1% rate no matter what Vick Strizheus told you. He's counting on you to be so new to the game that you'll buy into his plan and overspend.

Even with postcards, though, your current numbers are wayyyyy off. Expect a 1% open rate
- Thanks
Signature

Build Your List Like the Gurus Do
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8363789].message }}

mjbmedia

12 years ago

Let him spend the money, take the time, do what he says, and then and only then will he realise his folly.
Some people cant take advice, they only learn by ballsing up themselves, so let him go ahead, balls up and then we wont say we told you so because we are all above that, but we did, but you never listened.
Hell why am I even wasting my time commenting on this thread

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

Mike

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8364124].message }}

Claude Whitacre 12 years ago

I think the OP is gone.

I love it. We all invest time trying to give good advice. And the guy just bails. I think it's funny.
- Thanks
- 1 reply
Signature
One Call Closing book https://www.amazon.com/One-Call-Clos...=1527788418&sr

What if they're not stars? What if they are holes poked in the top of a container so we can breath?
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8364268].message }}
- DABK 12 years ago
  
  Perhaps he learned and he's busy back in square 1.
  
  Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre
  
  I think the OP is gone.
  
  I love it. We all invest time trying to give good advice. And the guy just bails. I think it's funny.
  
  Thanks
  
  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8364896].message }}

mjbmedia

12 years ago

Yeh hopefully others will read it and get something from it

Thanks

Signature

Mike

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8364631].message }}

rafsco

12 years ago

Once I did a 20000 addresses coupon advertisement to send people to my webpage. I got one sale and 100 hits (about). For me it was a disaster. I was advertising pets products which I thought would be popular. I think you are overestimating big time. In my opinion you'll be lucky to get 5 sales. How are you going to send the mail? Do you have a targeted list of addresses?
Good luck

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

Joe Falcade
Make Money with greedyjoe.com

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8374548].message }}

SashaLee

12 years ago

Originally Posted by rafsco

Once I did a 20000 addresses coupon advertisement to send people to my webpage. I got one sale and 100 hits (about). For me it was a disaster. I was advertising pets products which I thought would be popular. I think you are overestimating big time. In my opinion you'll be lucky to get 5 sales. How are you going to send the mail? Do you have a targeted list of addresses?
Good luck

Hi there,

Couple of tips -

How many of your 20,000 were pet owners? If you bought a list you would have been able to segment it. If you just did addresses, then you were shooting sorta blind.

If you had a way to follow up on those 100 hits, you'd be able to squeeze more money from the mailer.

I hate to hear you spent that kind of money and had poor results. Many of our clients have done the same thing and said afterwards,
"Direct mail sucks". Direct mail done properly can earn you a lifetime of revenue. It's a rinse and repeat process.

Thing MESSAGE-MARKET-MEDIA. The message to market portion is the most important.

Again, Sorry to hear you spent the money to mail 20,000 pieces without a little more planning (that's what it sounds like). If you want to give direct mail another shot, shoot me a PM and I'll be happy to consult with you on some ideas to make it at least break even for you, but more likely make you a nice profit.

All the best,

Sasha.

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8375851].message }}

Andrew Vozar

12 years ago

Hey guys...

WOW... lots of comment...

Most of you was wrong! Well, not totally wrong but my results are totally different as what you thought I will get.

By the way sorry for not responding for long time... I was busy with my WSO and I had to wait to see the clear result for this campaign. (some of you said: Oh nice... we give him advices and he did not even answer) HERE I AM NOW. :-)

Right so let`s see the result of this campaign.

20K mails been sent out.
Opening rate: God knows...
response rate: 13% (2600+ email subscribers)
sales: 5% (130+)

Did it worth? Hell yeah!

Now I`m about do a postcard campaign to see which one is better.

Living the dream guys... offline is rocks!!!!!

Thanks
3 replies

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8407453].message }}

Mr. Subtle 12 years ago

never mind.
- Thanks
Signature
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8408401].message }}

misterme

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Andrew Vozar

sales: 5% (130+)

Did it worth? Hell yeah!

Now I`m about do a postcard campaign to see which one is better.

Living the dream guys... offline is rocks!!!!!

Can't wait to find out what the postcard mailing's open rate turns out to be.

Just kidding.
ROI is what it's about, baby! Yeah!

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8408529].message }}

Mr. Subtle

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Andrew Vozar

By the way sorry for not responding for long time... I was busy with my WSO and I had to wait to see the clear result for this campaign.

Right so let`s see the result of this campaign.

20K mails been sent out.
response rate: 13% (2600+ email subscribers)

Let me get this straight...

On July 31st you attended a direct mail webinar.

On August 1st you ran out and bought 20,000 envelopes, 20,000 sheets of paper and enough ink to print these letters.

Then you had to sit down and write your sales letter. After that you had to start printing them. Typical inkjet printer speeds are around 15 pages a minute. So to print 20,000 one sided letters it would have taken you at least 23 hours (of straight nonstop time) to print them. (Probably way longer than that because you had to be filling paper trays, inserting ink cartridges and if it were 2-sided... double that time.)

Next you had to fold 20,000 sheets of paper or have someone do that for you.

Then you had to insert 20,000 sheets of paper into the 20,000 envelopes you bought or have someone do that for you.

Then you had to seal 20,000 envelopes or have someone do that for you.

Lastly you had to have 20,000 pieces delivered by kids. Lets say you were lucky enough to find 12 dumb kids (foolish enough to work on commission) and lets say they could average 1 delivery a minute. It would have taken those poor b@st@rds 3.5 days to deliver them (for FREE ... hoping they'd get some money).

And you did all that in just 16 days ... plus got the results of your effort

Plus it happened sooner 'cause you started writing your WSO.

Amazing.

[ 8 ] Thanks
1 reply

Signature

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8408681].message }}

gasman 12 years ago

Originally Posted by Mr. Subtle

Plus it happened sooner 'cause you started writing your WSO.

Amazing.

Beat me to it.. Nothing more needs to be said, it's very obvious what was going on here from the start.
- Thanks
- 1 reply
Signature

READY SET COMEDY PODCAST

Bored? Need a laugh? Find us on iTunes or wherever you listen to podcasts.
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8412808].message }}
- Claude Whitacre 12 years ago
  
  My only question is;
  Did the OP make up the part where he bought 20,000 envelopes?
  
  Because that's the only part that is physically possible, in this whole story.
  
  Man, my advice is.....if you are going to make up a story, know enough to make it convincing.
  
  All the stories I've make up here...I've done plenty of research.....plenty....to make sure that they sound 100% convincing.
  
  Oh, my new WSO on "How To Make Up Stories To Pre-Sell WSO's"...should be done next week.
  
  [ 2 ] Thanks
  
  1 reply
  
  Signature
  One Call Closing book https://www.amazon.com/One-Call-Clos...=1527788418&sr
  
  What if they're not stars? What if they are holes poked in the top of a container so we can breath?
  
  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8412839].message }}
  
  dave147 12 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre
  
  Oh, my new WSO on "How To Make Up Stories To Pre-Sell WSO's"...should be done next week.
  
  Claude,
  I would like a review copy please
  
  Thanks
  
  Signature
  
  THESE PRODUCTS FREE @ adsense-expert
  When You Get The 300 Logo Templates Here
  $500.00 in FREE Advertising For You Here
  
  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8412843].message }}

EmmaGraham

12 years ago

This is just complete nonsense.

I know the mail order game quite well and the best copywriters in the world aren't achieving a 13% opt-in rate from blind mailings, so unless you've already got a 20k customer list who know you well and are interested in everything you send them, there's no way on earth that you've achieved anything like that.

And 130+ sales? From a blind mailing? Give me a break.

You got your numbers wrong on postage too by the way. Even to send everything by second class post in the UK would have cost you £10,000, not £1,500, for postage alone, and that's before before printing and envelopes.

Lesson to be learned here. Think. Before. Typing. In. Future.

;-)

~ Emma

[ 2 ] Thanks
2 replies

Signature

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8408625].message }}

Mr. Subtle

12 years ago

Originally Posted by EmmaGraham

You got your numbers wrong on postage too by the way. Even to send everything by second class post in the UK would have cost you £10,000, not £1,500, for postage alone, and that's before before printing and envelopes.

He hired kids to drop them off for free (and the hope of a small commission later).

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8408664].message }}

EmmaGraham 12 years ago

Originally Posted by Mr. Subtle

He hired kids to drop them off for free (and the hope of a small commission later).

:-)

No matter which way you look at it, it simply doesn't work.
- Thanks
- 1 reply
Signature
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8408668].message }}
- bizgrower 12 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by EmmaGraham
  
  :-)
  
  No matter which way you look at it, it simply doesn't work.
  
  In the USA it is illegal and heavily fineable for anyone other than a post office employee to put things in mailboxes.
  
  Is it the same in the UK?
  
  Dan
  
  Thanks
  
  Signature
  
  "If you think you're the smartest person in the room, then you're probably in the wrong room."
  
  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8410811].message }}

cbean

12 years ago

Originally Posted by EmmaGraham

This is just complete nonsense.

I know the mail order game quite well and the best copywriters in the world aren't achieving a 13% opt-in rate from blind mailings, so unless you've already got a 20k customer list who know you well and are interested in everything you send them, there's no way on earth that you've achieved anything like that.

And 130+ sales? From a blind mailing? Give me a break.

You got your numbers wrong on postage too by the way. Even to send everything by second class post in the UK would have cost you £10,000, not £1,500, for postage alone, and that's before before printing and envelopes.

Lesson to be learned here. Think. Before. Typing. In. Future.

;-)

~ Emma

How about read before posting? The guy said he would be using kids etc; to distribute.

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

DONE FOR YOU!! Build WEBSITES Fast With My 48HR UNLIMITED WP Plugins And Pages Installation Service

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8522183].message }}

Greg guitar 12 years ago

Originally Posted by cbean

How about read before posting? The guy said he would be using kids etc; to distribute.

I know he said that, but use your head; he's talking 20k pieces. How many kids is he going to hire; who manages them; how is he complying with labor laws? The entire plan is pie in the sky, just like the Empower group and that convicted fraudster that started "Big Idea".
- Thanks
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8523345].message }}

Andrew Vozar

12 years ago

That pic is cool!

Well... I won`t waste my time to explain how I managed to to get this result... even if I do I just get an animated pic...

I have no time for this. If somebody interested in how I did it, get in touch...

Thanks

Andrew

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8410007].message }}

Andrew Vozar

12 years ago

I want one too! Make sure you save one for me

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8413862].message }}

Claude Whitacre 12 years ago

Originally Posted by Andrew Vozar

I want one too! Make sure you save one for me

Andrew; I will say this..you're taking this criticism like a man.
- Thanks
- 2 replies
Signature
One Call Closing book https://www.amazon.com/One-Call-Clos...=1527788418&sr

What if they're not stars? What if they are holes poked in the top of a container so we can breath?
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8414558].message }}
- dave147 12 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre
  
  Andrew; I will say this..you're taking this criticism like a man.
  
  He certainly is
  
  Thanks
  
  Signature
  
  THESE PRODUCTS FREE @ adsense-expert
  When You Get The 300 Logo Templates Here
  $500.00 in FREE Advertising For You Here
  
  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8415326].message }}
- Underground 12 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre
  
  Andrew; I will say this..you're taking this criticism like a man.
  
  He's taking criticism like a child immune to reason. Or like a conman completely devoid of any regard for their marks instead choosing to believe their own lies. Seems like a bit of both.
  
  This guy is brazenly setting up a scam WSO with a fantasy story about some fabricated direct mail campaign. Absolute madness.
  
  Thanks
  
  1 reply
  
  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8523995].message }}
  
  Justin T Wells 12 years ago
  
  The only way to get a 95% open rate is to target a list of empower network members (or insert just about about any mlm here) and print on the envelope something like "refund check enclosed" or "court settlement" in some way that is not illegal. Even then, so many people will be facepalming themselves that they still might be trashing the letter.
  
  If only there as a way to take the dumb money, convince these people to invest it into a real business or alongside a legitimately successful marketer, and teach them how to actually improve their lives selling real products and services that actually help people.
  
  Unfortunately, that will never happen on any scale for a variety of reasons.
  
  Now, it is totally possible that Andrew added or left off some zeros or something since English is not his primary language. Perhaps if he could post a picture of his flyer we could all find out that we were all missing some vital piece of the story here.
  
  Thanks
  
  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8525411].message }}

Kiingme

12 years ago

hahah this guy has to be new to marketing. the only way you're ever getting a 95% direct mail success rate is if you are a letter opener lol

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8416779].message }}

Rus Sells

12 years ago

OP site suspended by hosting company. Where's all those customers you claim to have gotten, did they not pay you?

Thanks

Signature

Review Sentry

Dotcomcodex

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8525531].message }}

SteveSki

12 years ago

IMO the OP is simply following the footsteps of his leaders and probably lying about his results. Just look at his mentors... first you have Vick Strizheus who is a convicted con artist:

Vick Big Idea Mastermind Arrested For Insurance...

Next you have David Wood at the top of the Empower Network Pyramid who calls himself a "Once Homeless Van Man" who believes his own lies. A quick check of the Wayback Machine shows that while he was so called homeless... he was bragging about being a member of the "New Rich" who could afford to travel around Hawaii in a camper van living the homeless lifestyle because he had already banked millions from promoting several other MLM's.

A voluntary luxury camping adventure in Hawaii is a far cry from being homeless....

Both of these guys are masters of "Dark Persuasion Tactics" and if the op wants to be more like them I suggest that he or anyone that does not want to get burned by these or other IM hucksters read the WSO thread at: http://www.warriorforum.com/warrior-...-revealed.html

Thanks

Signature

www.EnchantedPortraits.com.au

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8525613].message }}

David B.

12 years ago

The OP is a total bullshitter but thanks to this thread I learned a lot from the answers of the real direct mail experts here, as to how to approach mailing when I need to do one.

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

Your Body Needs More GLUTATHIONE

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8526698].message }}

Greg guitar 12 years ago

This thread reminds me of another some time ago by some a-hole claiming he was getting something like a 15-20% conversion rate; not response rate, from a single cold email to offline businesses he was targeting for the sale of online marketing services.

I wouldn't mind so much, but it pisses me off on behalf of the eternally credulous Warriors so hungry for a little success that they believe anything hopeful sounding, no matter how unlikely. A number of Warriors who should have known better were congratulating the fool on his "taking action"-and lying about the results.

But at least if they tried to duplicate his "success", they were only out some time. Anyone falling for the op's lies here, will lose big time, due to the high costs involved (and perhaps get arrested for soliciting child commission-slaves to avoid paying for postage).

I agree that the thread was just to generate some buzz for a scam WSO about direct mail, and how easy it is to just grab some gold off the ground with little invested, due to "a top secret, clever Ninja tactic to avoid postage charges" (by exploiting children). Hopefully his WSO will never get approved.
- Thanks
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8526776].message }}

aharrold

12 years ago

LOL at this guy, I feel bad for him. Hopefully this was a learning experience and will make him a better man???

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8526760].message }}

My Direct Mail Strategy $100.000 In 90 Days

Trending Topics

Anyone Here To Guid Me How To Use This Plateform?

Is that me or is Christmas getting sadder as time goes by?

I need to Know about location based keyword and without location Keyword?

What are you thankful for in 2025...

Not sure how I should price my new product for existing members...any suggestions?