Rapport When Selling Services by Claudius

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I received an e-mail asking me about which step "gaining rapport" was. Did you "gain rapport" before the "Small talk" or after you "set the stage"?

The whole concept is wrong.
"Gaining rapport" isn't a step in the sales process. It's just being a caring professional looking out for the best interests of the prospect.

But "How do you gain rapport?". You don't. You be that person that people like and trust. Be likable. Be trustworthy.

Aren't there people that like you now? Well, what did you do to make them like you? You were a friend. You treated them with respect. You showed an interest in what they liked. You didn't just talk about yourself. You made them feel better about life when they were talking with you. There. Do that with prospects.

Is "building rapport" telling jokes?

Do you have a doctor? Do you trust him/her, and follow their advice, nearly always without question? The answer is "yes"

When you first met them, did they tell you 5 jokes? Did they say mean things about other doctors? Did they tell you about the last patient that was a pain? No.

No. They asked sincere questions to find out the best way to help you...and then they did. That's rapport.

It's rapport when you are both on the same side. Aren't you on the same side?...fighting against low profits for your client? Fighting with him/her to make their business more profitable? That's rapport. You are comrades in arms.

Want to kill rapport? Talk about things that do not help the client.
Talk about benefits that don't fit anything the client has brought up, as an interest to them. That will kill rapport.

Want to kill a sales? When you are at the closing, hesitate. Don't ask them to buy. talk past the moment. Keep talking. Sweat. Act nervous. change your tone, pacing, posture. Make it obvious that you'd be shocked if they said "Yes". I've seen that so often, I'm gritting my teeth just talking about it.

But...want to kill rapport, without either of you being aware that you are doing it?
Try to sell faster than they want to buy. In other words, ask them to buy before they want to.

Have you ever been taught "Close early, close often, always be closing"?
Really?

Wouldn't it be smarter to close after the prospect wants to buy? Wouldn't that be easier?

Let the prospect discover that they want your offer. How? Want to know what real rapport is? Real rapport is selling at the speed that the prospect wants to buy.

Have you ever gone fishing? Do you throw the hook in and "Yank the hook early, yank often, always be pulling the hook out of the water"? Does that make sense? No.

You put the hook (and bait) in the water. You wait until there is a nibble. Then you wait a little longer until the fish decides to bit the hook. They you wait a few seconds more until the fish is committed to eating that bait. Then you pull the line out of the water. And you'll nearly always have a fish.

The same with selling.

If the prospect isn't excited at the beginning, don't be enthusiastic. It will break rapport. You will look desperate. The prospect will cross their arms, dig in their heels, and get ready for battle.

But you aren't there for battle. You're there to help them. You're on their side. Remember?

So, I always sound about as excited as the prospect. Maybe a tad less. I may even say something like "I don't know. Maybe this isn't for you. Should I go on or not?". And I'm not smiling.

On a scale of one-ten (one being no interest at all, and ten being interested enough to buy) I always want to be at the same level as the prospect. Maybe a tad below.

When they hear something they like, I may ask "You sure? How would this benefit you?" And I make them tell me. Why? Because it's impossible to feel pressure when you are telling me why you like what I sell. And it's the very definition of rapport when you are exactly as interested as they are.

They have a problem? I want them to tell me all about it..."and how much will it cost your company?" "Would it help if you could....?" (this will match my solution, which is part of my service) "Well...OK, we will..... will that solve the problem?"
Them "Yes"
And then ask them "How?". And when they answer, they are discovering that they want what you are offering.

Do that with the biggest benefits that fit their concerns. With any experience, you'll see when they are ready to buy. It's usually a few seconds after they asked a question or two, that nobody would ask unless they were going to buy. "When could you get started?" "How do we pay you?"

You give the answer in exactly the same tone, pace, volume, as during the whole discussion.

"Is this OK then?" Ask it like you just asked what time it is.

Rapport isn't a step in the sale, it's matching your enthusiasm, and speed of selling to the client's speed of buying.

I hope this helped someone.
#claudius #rapport #selling #services
  • Profile picture of the author design89
    awesome man
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  • Profile picture of the author laurencewins
    As usual, your thread has inspired many of us. Rapport isn't ONE step...it's an on-going process with many people in your life, all at different stages.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rearden
    I have heard and read of some sales programs where there is a big push-back against training your salesmen on typical rapport-building techniques, preferring to cut the training out entirely or to let the consultative philosophy take care of the rapport concept.
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  • Profile picture of the author globalpro
    So glad to hear you saying this Claude. I always felt bad about spending the extra time to get to know potential client first. Especially after hearing over and over about the 'churn and burn' sales process.

    Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

    Have you ever gone fishing? Do you throw the hook in and "Yank the hook early, yank often, always be pulling the hook out of the water"? Does that make sense? No.

    You put the hook (and bait) in the water. You wait until there is a nibble. Then you wait a little longer until the fish decides to bit the hook. They you wait a few seconds more until the fish is committed to eating that bait. Then you pull the line out of the water. And you'll nearly always have a fish.

    The same with selling.
    Great analogy with fishing. You have to have patience to see if they are biting and you get to see where the best 'fishin' holes are at.

    Am finding now that 'trollin' works very well too.
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by globalpro View Post

      So glad to hear you saying this Claude. I always felt bad about spending the extra time to get to know potential client first. Especially after hearing over and over about the 'churn and burn' sales process.



      Great analogy with fishing. You have to have patience to see if they are biting and you get to see where the best 'fishin' holes are at.

      Am finding now that 'trollin' works very well too.
      When I was a boy, my Dad took me fishing. I never understood why we were doing it, but sitting next to my Dad by a lake was fun.

      He tried to make me like fishing. He would explain how to know when to fish, where, what bait to use, how to tease the bait, and when to yank the line.

      It wasn't until decades later that I realized that he taught me how to sell.

      I actually thought of writing a book "Everything I Know About Selling I Learned While Fishing With My Dad"
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  • Profile picture of the author misterme
    Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

    Do you have a doctor? Do you trust him/her, and follow their advice, nearly always without question? The answer is "yes"

    When you first met them, did they tell you 5 jokes? Did they say mean things about other doctors? Did they tell you about the last patient that was a pain? No.
    May I add too that when the patient tells the Doctor the tick bite that gave them Lyme disease was picked up while they were camping, the Doctor doesn't spend five minutes rambling on about how he or she loves to go camping too.

    I guess you could sum up rapport building by the old saying, "they won't be your clients until they know you care."

    Want to kill rapport? Talk about things that do not help the client.
    Talk about benefits that don't fit anything the client has brought up, as an interest to them. That will kill rapport.
    May I add that being dismissive of, adversarial to, or to just plain ignore what the client (or prospect) just brought up which interests them, can also kill rapport.
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by misterme View Post

      May I add too that when the patient tells the Doctor the tick bite that gave them Lyme disease was picked up while they were camping, the Doctor doesn't spend five minutes rambling on about how he or she loves to go camping too.
      Misterme; No you may not. Ok, you can say it..but this is the last time.

      added later: To your point....Yeah, The doctor doesn't talk about his own passion for camping...and neither does any smart professional. If they have picture of their kids displayed, that isn't an invitation to talk about your kids.


      Originally Posted by misterme View Post

      I guess you could sum up rapport building by the old saying, "they won't be your clients until they know you care."
      You could just say that. But it's more impressive if you take a whole page. At least that's my theory. And I never say in a sentence what I could say in a whole book.


      Originally Posted by misterme View Post

      May I add that being dismissive of, adversarial to, or to just plain ignore what the client (or prospect) just brought up which interests them, can also kill rapport.
      Ok, that's pretty good. Yes, if the client brings it up, at least show a passive interest. I usually just ask a question about their interest, to show I value their opinion. It gives a chance for them to shine..

      And sometimes I really am interested. And I'll ask quite a few questions. But I won't do it once the presentations really starts. Maybe I'll being it up again after they buy.

      One rule I make sure I follow. I never sound smarter than they are when they are talking about their hobby or interests. It's always me asking questions.

      If they are talking about the stuffed bear in their living room, they don't give a sh1t about the stuffed bear in your living room. And you better notice it, because they put it there for a reason. I always comment on trophies, awards, anything that makes them look special. If they have a small business making crafts, it's always interesting, and I usually buy something.


      Actually, you brought up all good points. But I know you knew that already.

      by the way, Misterme...

      You didn't comment on my "Fishing with Dad" story. I find that dismissive, and I feel ignored.
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      • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        You didn't comment on my "Fishing with Dad" story. I find that dismissive, and I feel ignored.
        But, Claude, you hope for nothing, so you simply can't feel ignored. I hope that
        makes you feel better.

        To be serious, my main take away from your OP is about the "mirroring" techniques mentioned in some sales training to build rapport. Some of it is phony and many prospects have had that training and they see right through it.

        It seems that the real thing to "mirror" is their interests in their business (or whatever you are meeting with them to help). That's probably best mirrored by intense listening that one can demonstrate verbally or non-verbally.

        I once worked for a video dating firm. The member reps would meet prospects in closed rooms with a glass wall. When the most successful membership rep was with a prospect, you could see the intense focus and listening on her face and in her eyes.

        Dan
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        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
          Originally Posted by bizgrower View Post

          But, Claude, you hope for nothing, so you simply can't feel ignored. I hope that
          makes you feel better.
          Touche!

          Originally Posted by bizgrower View Post

          To be serious, my main take away from your OP is about the "mirroring" techniques mentioned in some sales training to build rapport. Some of it is phony and everybody has had that training and they see right through it.

          It seems that the real thing to "mirror" is their interests in their business (or whatever you are meeting with them to help). That's probably best mirrored by intense listening that one can demonstrate verbally or non-verbally.

          I once worked for a video dating firm. The member reps would meet prospects in closed rooms with a glass wall. When the most successful membership rep was with a prospect, you could see the intense focus and listening on her face and in her eyes.

          Dan

          Yeah, I'm familiar with NLP and Mirroring, and Pacing.
          To be fair, that's not why I do it. I've just found that if you are intensely interested in them, and show it in subtle ways, they are engaged.

          It really made a difference when I figured out that always being enthusiastic in front of a prospect could hurt you. Have you ever seen a conversation between a very enthusiastic person, and a laid back person who isn't that interested? It looks odd. And the enthusiastic person looks manic, and desperate.

          One thing I do almost subconsciously, is act, after they have told me their story/hobby/interests/complaints/whatever....is suddenly snap into focus and say "Wow, sorry for taking all your time on your stamp collection. Time goes quickly when it's something interesting. What were we talking about?"

          See? It feels to them like I was deeply engrossed in their story.

          And (I'm not sure this will make sense), during the time I'm with them..I really am engrossed in the story. It's a huge compliment when you listen intently to someone.

          I know deep down why I'm doing all these things. At some level, it's all technique. But while I'm with them? It's all real.

          People can tell (especially women) when you aren't sincere. You can't fake it. Your face and body give it away. You really have to be interested.
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  • Profile picture of the author dbrown12331
    Claude, I have been reading your materials as well as a few others on this board and it is complete gold. I just wanted to say thank you for always contributing so much information. I wouldn't be where I am today without the knowledge I have learned on this board, and you are one of the shoulders that I stand on when I am out selling myself.

    On a more related note, in the begininng I was terrible at selling... and fishing. There's the connection. Overtime, I kept at it and became a bit better at selling. Still not too good at fishing but it gives me hope that even that can be improved upon. I was always rushing myself due to being so nervous. Now I am slightly less nervous but I still find myself talking a bit too fast for a prospect to understand.

    P.S. I would most likely read that book about fishing and selling that you mentioned Claude.

    -David
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by dbrown12331 View Post

      Claude, I have been reading your materials as well as a few others on this board and it is complete gold. I just wanted to say thank you for always contributing so much information. I wouldn't be where I am today without the knowledge I have learned on this board, and you are one of the shoulders that I stand on when I am out selling myself.

      On a more related note, in the begininng I was terrible at selling... and fishing. There's the connection. Overtime, I kept at it and became a bit better at selling. Still not too good at fishing but it gives me hope that even that can be improved upon. I was always rushing myself due to being so nervous. Now I am slightly less nervous but I still find myself talking a bit too fast for a prospect to understand.

      P.S. I would most likely read that book about fishing and selling that you mentioned Claude

      -David
      Thank you. I've learned a lot here too. The offline Forum has several experienced intelligent minds that constantly deliver. I'm honored to be included in that group.

      The talking too fast? Being nervous? My advice is to actually practice what you say, and how you say it. It's better, role playing with another salesperson, but I still do it in my car...just imagining objections and questions...and answering them out loud.

      Yup, after 40 years of selling...I still work on it.
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      • Profile picture of the author Jamie Ambition
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        Thank you. I've learned a lot here too. The offline Forum has several experienced intelligent minds that constantly deliver. I'm honored to be included in that group.

        The talking too fast? Being nervous? My advice is to actually practice what you say, and how you say it. It's better, role playing with another salesperson, but I still do it in my car...just imagining objections and questions...and answering them out loud.

        Yup, after 40 years of selling...I still work on it.
        Great thread as always, Claude.

        A point I'd add in regard to your response to dbrown - the best way to alleviate nerves I've ever found is to stop being outcome dependent. I understand this is very hard when money is tight etc, but in my experience being dependent on the outcome of a sale is only detrimental to your performance.

        Online if you get a 2% conversion rate that's pretty good. But that means 98 people have said no for every 2 sales. Expect the same offline (if not worse) and know you can't sell everyone. Just know the sale could very well be on the next call, so giving up is the only way you can actually fail.

        On a side-note: Anyone in the seduction niche will know the importance of NLP. It's mind blowing how much seduction and sales overlap. Food for thought!
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        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
          Originally Posted by Jamie Ambition View Post

          Great thread as always, Claude.

          A point I'd add in regard to your response to dbrown - the best way to alleviate nerves I've ever found is to stop being outcome dependent. I understand this is very hard when money is tight etc, but in my experience being dependent on the outcome of a sale is only detrimental to your performance.

          Online if you get a 2% conversion rate that's pretty good. But that means 98 people have said no for every 2 sales. Expect the same offline (if not worse) and know you can't sell everyone. Just know the sale could very well be on the next call, so giving up is the only way you can actually fail.
          I agree. I also know that (I know you'll agree) it's very hard not to be outcome dependent when you really need that sale today.

          But...
          When I was selling in people's homes, It never bothered me when they didn't talk to me, let me in the home, buy from me. And I didn't get excited when I made a sale. It was all the same process to me. For example;

          I knocked on the door to see if they were home.
          Then I talked to them to see if they wold let me in.
          Then I would see if they qualified.
          Then I would decide if I wanted to show them a demonstration.
          Then they would decide if they wanted to buy.

          So most of the process, I didn't care which way it went. There was always the next door. And I only showed my product to people that I was convinced were very likely to buy.


          Originally Posted by Jamie Ambition View Post

          On a side-note: Anyone in the seduction niche will know the importance of NLP. It's mind blowing how much seduction and sales overlap. Food for thought!
          Yeah, Dan Kennedy recommended a book on Seduction by Neil Strauss titled The Game. It was brilliantly written. And you're right, it's all marketing.
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          • Profile picture of the author AndrewCavanagh
            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

            When I was selling in people's homes, It never bothered me when they didn't talk to me, let me in the home, buy from me. And I didn't get excited when I made a sale. It was all the same process to me. For example;

            I knocked on the door to see if they were home.
            Then I talked to them to see if they wold let me in.
            Then I would see if they qualified.
            Then I would decide if I wanted to show them a demonstration.
            Then they would decide if they wanted to buy.

            So most of the process, I didn't care which way it went. There was always the next door. And I only showed my product to people that I was convinced were very likely to buy.
            Great attitude.

            People get so hung up on whether THIS prospect will buy
            they screw the process up because they come across as
            pushy or needy.

            You simply don't need any particular client.

            You have a world of businesses who can use the services
            you have to offer.

            Kindest regards,
            Andrew Cavanagh
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            • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
              Originally Posted by AndrewCavanagh View Post

              Great attitude.

              People get so hung up on whether THIS prospect will buy
              they screw the process up because they come across as
              pushy or needy.

              You simply don't need any particular client.

              You have a world of businesses who can use the services
              you have to offer.

              Kindest regards,
              Andrew Cavanagh
              I would take a new salesman out with me, and they would ask "What are the chances of getting in a home and doing a presentation?"

              I would say "Tonight? 100%. Getting in each door we knock on? Maybe one in six. But I just want one."

              But I only really had time for one presentation. So I really wanted to make sure I had a very good chance at a sale. I could talk to a lot of prospects in the time it took for a presentation. So if here was anything I could see what might kill a sale, I'd simply go to the next door.

              And because I only wanted to do one presentation, I would qualify heavily.
              So, my closing ratio was exceptionally high.

              Mostly, it was because I was so picky in who I showed my product to.
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              • Profile picture of the author Jason Kanigan
                Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                I would take a new salesman out with me, and they would ask "What are the chances of getting in a home and doing a presentation?"

                I would say "Tonight? 100%. Getting in each door we knock on? Maybe one in six. But I just want one."

                But I only really had time for one presentation. So I really wanted to make sure I had a very good chance at a sale. I could talk to a lot of prospects in the time it took for a presentation. So if here was anything I could see what might kill a sale, I'd simply go to the next door.

                And because I only wanted to do one presentation, I would qualify heavily.
                So, my closing ration was exceptionally high.

                Mostly, it was because I was so picky in who I showed my product to.
                Could not agree more.

                Most "rejection" is actually salespeople presenting too early and to unqualified prospects, ie. to the wrong people and at the wrong time.
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    • Profile picture of the author globalpro
      Originally Posted by dbrown12331 View Post

      Claude, I have been reading your materials as well as a few others on this board and it is complete gold. I just wanted to say thank you for always contributing so much information. I wouldn't be where I am today without the knowledge I have learned on this board, and you are one of the shoulders that I stand on when I am out selling myself.
      I will definitely second that.

      Originally Posted by dbrown12331 View Post

      On a more related note, in the begininng I was terrible at selling... and fishing. There's the connection. Overtime, I kept at it and became a bit better at selling. Still not too good at fishing but it gives me hope that even that can be improved upon. I was always rushing myself due to being so nervous. Now I am slightly less nervous but I still find myself talking a bit too fast for a prospect to understand.
      Fishing is all about patience, persistence and focus. To be good at it, you have to spend the time learning what works and doesn't work (bait, hooks, lures, where to fish and best times, etc.). After a while you get the hang of it, it becomes something you really enjoy doing.

      Another thing is sometimes the fish are biting, and sometimes they aren't, but it doesn't mean you stop fishing, it just means they aren't biting right now. And you can figure out why (tides, weather, time of year, etc.). Same as what Claude said about "So most of the process, I didn't care which way it went. There was always the next door. And I only showed my product to people that I was convinced were very likely to buy."

      More than anything, you won't catch any fish if you don't get a line in the water.

      Hey Claude, let me know if you need any contributors to the 'fishin' book. I can tell the story of my brother ripping the bottom out of my Dad's boat racing to where someone said the fish were biting.
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  • Profile picture of the author AndrewCavanagh
    Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

    I received an e-mail asking me about which step "gaining rapport" was. Did you "gain rapport" before the "Small talk" or after you "set the stage"?

    That is really funny.

    It's really crucial that you don't look at people as
    "potential sales" and a sales process you have to
    go through to get money.

    That attitude is going to come across and it will
    kill your results.

    When you genuinely care about the people you
    talk to and you're genuinely interested in them and
    their business that will make building rapport quite
    easy and natural.

    Kindest regards,
    Andrew Cavanagh
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  • Profile picture of the author mjbmedia
    so Claude if you looked into their hallway and it was all spick and span, would you consider them an ideal prospect (houseproud) or a less ideal prospect (already have a vacuum that they clearly use and it clearly works) , of course youd need more than that I know but genuine interested , as in with marketing if a business is trying a lot of approaches are they deemed a better prospect than another business that is only trying one or two approaches but therefore perhaps has more potential .
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    • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
      Originally Posted by mjbmedia View Post

      so Claude if you looked into their hallway and it was all spick and span, would you consider them an ideal prospect (houseproud) or a less ideal prospect (already have a vacuum that they clearly use and it clearly works) , of course youd need more than that I know but genuine interested , as in with marketing if a business is trying a lot of approaches are they deemed a better prospect than another business that is only trying one or two approaches but therefore perhaps has more potential .
      Personally, I would never trust only visual queues. I would have to back them
      up by talking to the prospect. When I pre-qualify its like a psychology test.

      Same question asked five different ways ... then I know they aren't lieing,
      or misinformed about their own situation.

      That is just me tho, I am interested in Claude's answer as well.
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    • Profile picture of the author Jason Kanigan
      Originally Posted by mjbmedia View Post

      so Claude if you looked into their hallway and it was all spick and span, would you consider them an ideal prospect (houseproud) or a less ideal prospect (already have a vacuum that they clearly use and it clearly works) , of course youd need more than that I know but genuine interested , as in with marketing if a business is trying a lot of approaches are they deemed a better prospect than another business that is only trying one or two approaches but therefore perhaps has more potential .
      This doesn't tell you anything other than SOMEONE there values tidiness. Of course, they may have just cleaned up because a visitor is coming (you). It could be a good starter for asking questions. Make an appreciative comment, and then head into, with a smile, "So, who is it who said, 'We gotta get this place cleaned up?'" If they regularly clean, they'll tell you; if they don't, the culprit will be proudly revealed.

      As far as vacuum sales goes, imo home cleanliness tells you very little about their need, budget and personality fit as potential customers. All it is is a way in to further questioning...to which they hopefully provide honest answers.
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by mjbmedia View Post

      so Claude if you looked into their hallway and it was all spick and span, would you consider them an ideal prospect (houseproud) or a less ideal prospect (already have a vacuum that they clearly use and it clearly works) , of course youd need more than that I know but genuine interested , as in with marketing if a business is trying a lot of approaches are they deemed a better prospect than another business that is only trying one or two approaches but therefore perhaps has more potential .
      It has nothing to do with cleanliness or tidiness. Some of my easiest sales were to people living in a pigsty. The least important part is if they would actually use the vacuum. If they were spic and span, any dirt I found at all, would freak them out. Again, it was good either way.

      I would ask them what they did for a living. I was looking for a stable job. Far easier to finance. I would make sure the wife was there, and that they weren't leaving in the next hour. I would ask about their car, and about how long they've had it (most of these questions were credit questions.)I

      I would find out if they owned their home or rented. If renting, how long. If they rented and had short job time (maybe under a year), I wouldn't stay. Way too easy for credit to be declined.

      I would ask what kind of vacuum cleaner they had, how old it was, and what they liked about it. A key was "How old is it?" Because, I could tell how old it would be by looking at it. If they said it was older than it was, that meant they were already trying to justify buying something new.

      I would ask if anyone had allergies, if they had pets, and if the pets shed a lot. I would really be asking these questions to open their mind to reasons they may need a new vacuum cleaner, and I would bring them up (if the answers were "Yes" ) while demonstrating.

      If I saw bills with red stamps on them, that meant they were from collectors. That was a very bad sign. If they had one small TV sitting on top of another one...that was a bad sign.

      I also wanted to see if they were nice people. And if they would let me turn off the TV while I was there. If they said "No" I would leave.

      It had nothing to do with whether they were clean or dirty, or even if they needed a vacuum cleaner. I just wanted to know if there was something keeping them from buying (and being approved for credit).

      If they had a brand new expensive vacuum cleaner, I would ask what they liked about it. If they sang it's praises, I knew it would be harder. But if they told me it was too heavy (or they couldn't get service) then I would still go ahead.

      I would ask if they ever had a salesman come into their home. If they did, I wanted to know what happened. Did they buy? (Great if Yes). Did they buy and cancel? (No!!!!!)

      If I see something that looks like an in home salesperson sold it (vacuums, fire alarms, water softener, security systems), I ask about the experience. It tells me a lot about how to proceed.

      And I never presented to a wife without the husband, or a husband without a wife there. That was a monumental waste of time.

      The actual desire to buy would come later in the presentation. Almost nobody showed interest before I started. I would nearly always start at a Zero. My qualifying was about buying habits and ability to pay.

      This sounds like it may take an hour to ask all these questions, but it really was only several minutes, and it would just sound like conversation.

      Most people observing would just see this as "getting to know them". But to me, it's deciding if I want to proceed.
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      One Call Closing book https://www.amazon.com/One-Call-Clos...=1527788418&sr

      "Be kind. For everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle".....Ian Maclaren
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