9x12 Troubleshooting (I guess?)

10 years ago

For the QR code stuff it depends on how you want to set up your list then you can go to QRStuff.com and for free point customers to whatever you want.

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RyanGillam

10 years ago

How can you say there is a 10% return on their investment? It seems like something that is very difficult to prove. In addition to this it seems like quite a high number.

I was a little taken aback by your comment "this is not something that needs to be sold". It really is 0_o

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DougPage

10 years ago

If you want all the info you need and be able to ask questions of those doing this, check out this WSO by bob ross:
http://www.warriorforum.com/warrior-...down-soon.html

Thanks
1 reply

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Darrin Bentley

10 years ago

Originally Posted by DougPage

If you want all the info you need and be able to ask questions of those doing this, check out this WSO by bob ross:
http://www.warriorforum.com/warrior-...down-soon.html

It certainly appears Bob knows his stuff on this subject! How does that WSO compare to his most recent (Emergency Profits and Print Profiteering) in terms of duplicate info? I guess the better question is...would his most recent WSO be the better option (especially considering some of the info in his old WSO may be outdated)?

Thanks

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Synnuh

10 years ago

Originally Posted by StevenDelong

For the QR code stuff it depends on how you want to set up your list then you can go to QRStuff.com and for free point customers to whatever you want.

I went to the site. I get that part of it now, but then what about collecting the names when the users scan those codes? Is that an Aweber type setup, or something similar, I'm guessing?

Originally Posted by RyanGillam

How can you say there is a 10% return on their investment? It seems like something that is very difficult to prove. In addition to this it seems like quite a high number.

I was a little taken aback by your comment "this is not something that needs to be sold". It really is 0_o

14 ads per card, with 1% return on each ad. It's the average for direct mailers. 10% is conservative.

The comment about it being sold means it should be a no-brainer for business owners, or at least I would think.

Thanks

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SashaLee

10 years ago

Hi there,
o
Have you read Bob Ross's WSO? If not, and you're attempting to go at this bootstrap-style then you're doing yourself a dis-service.

Yes, the system needs to be "sold" but selling is simply providing a solution to what someone wants.

You're either targeting the wrong prospects/area or you're positioning your product incorrectly.

All the best,

Sasha.

Thanks
1 reply

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TheBigBee 10 years ago

Business owners don't understand "QR Codes" but they do understand SMS. Use the cards to market a compelling offer to be unlocked only via SMS. Example; "text 12345 to win free tanning for life." One person wins, everyone else receives a consolation prize; a coupon for 50% off that they can purchase right then and there. So, the business owner just pre sold excess inventory AND secured a cell phone number in the process.

This approach works best if you can somehow find a way to finance the card entirely. Business owners love "free." Make sure you place in your contract that you keep 100% of each sale up to X amount until their share is paid for at cost. Then split the rest of the proceeds. Push out an offer once per month and BANK!!!

The card that keeps on giving!
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BUFFALOBT

10 years ago

Originally Posted by insuranceguy

I'm trying to diversify my income to avoid a repeat incident of my last business, so I want to market a 9x12 postcard, in addition to my lead gen services and building personal niche sites. I've spent about a month on this card, so far, and haven't had much success. I'm not a sales guy, but I don't feel like this has to be sold. So I am coming trying to get some help, insight, ideas, what have you to get this off the ground.

I've already mocked up a card, that has space on the back for my own company's advertisement, the pricing, and a list of the benefits. So far, the benefits I have come up with are:

- 10,000 homes per mailing (sent to coupon users)
- Large, vivid color ad professionally designed to get attention.
- 9x12 size gets noticed, because the box won't shut!
- It's easy to glance at a 9x12 card while going in the house.
- Serves only local businesses, no big corporate franchises overrunning their ad.
- Less than 5c per house, with average 10% return.
- QR codes to build your customer list.
- Only $495 to reserve a spot today.

So I am wondering about the QR codes. I want to offer it to make the card feel trendy, but also serve as a way to add value that other's in my area aren't doing, and also build the business's list. I have zero idea how to implement this type of technology, though, and haven't found much success in the searches I've done so far. Is there some place that can give me a crash course on implementing QR codes that you guys can recommend? And, is this really a value add that will produce results, and not just end up with egg on my face from something that doesn't deliver? I'll keep searching in the meantime.

I am also wondering about the pitch. Like I said, I'm not a salesman. I wanted to hire a one to fill the spots, but after some initial research and owners saying people are doing the same thing for $100 and $150 a spot, I am wondering how I can really ask for $495 a spot with a straight face -- and then get it? With so many other people in my city trying this same thing, and asking so little...? I don't mind putting in more work to provide more value, in order to justify the price, I am coming up with blanks, though, in terms of how to provide that value or if what I'm offering is legitimately enough.

Is this something you are giving them a high price for, and then dropping down to your real price? Or do you come out and give them the real, take-it or leave-it price?

I have considered setting up a local site for businesses to add their page for free, and post updates then drive social traffic to it. Would offering this web presence, along with the QR code and signup form be enough value to ask for $495? Or is it really possible to compete with these other guys with just the card, itself?

I know doubt kills most projects, but there is a part of me that is stuck on this project and wants to see it through. I've got plenty of time to take action, so as long as I can clear up some of these things I think I should be able to get over the doubt that I can possibly fill enough spots to at least break even and pay a salesman from the first card.

Thanks for any help, and like always I'll give back where I can!

I would skip the QR thing, along with your 10% comment...imho.

Business owners know they have to spend money to find new customers. Your mailing is one of several ways they can get in front of their target market...no need to promise or guarantee anything else.

I advertised a $450 ad price, but would go down to $400 to make a sale. Even though I call it a sale, I wasn't ever selling, rather sharing a way to help them to build their business.

And I did it all virtually, using email and closing when needed over the phone.

Good luck!

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Huskerdarren

10 years ago

Buffalobt, You've been involved with this on Bob's board for a couple of years now. How's it going? Do you have multiple cards going? Thanks

Thanks
2 replies

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ronr 10 years ago

I read yesterday on Bob's board that someone was sending out his 38th card...and it was a bigger card with even more ads than the 9x12.

Ron
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- BUFFALOBT 10 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by ronr
  
  I read yesterday on Bob's board that someone was sending out his 38th card...and it was a bigger card with even more ads than the 9x12.
  
  Ron
  
  Yep he is rolling...very inspiring.
  
  Thanks
  
  1 reply
  
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  Vikuna2009+ 10 years ago
  
  The size he uses is a 15x12, GINORMOUS, lol.
  
  Eva
  
  Thanks
  
  1 reply
  
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  Matt Lee 10 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Vikuna2009+
  
  The size he uses is a 15x12, GINORMOUS, lol.
  
  Eva
  
  And it's still allowed for EDDM? Wow!
  
  Thanks
  
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BUFFALOBT

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Huskerdarren

Buffalobt, You've been involved with this on Bob's board for a couple of years now. How's it going? Do you have multiple cards going? Thanks

Hey Husker,

I banged out 2 editions back in 2012 all using email and the phone.

Stopped because I have a full-time job...didn't have the time needed to keep it up.

I love the business model...where else can you NET 3K without ever leaving your house, and never having to buy anything...for every edition you do?

I have been thinking strongly lately about diving back in.

Peace,

BT

Thanks
1 reply

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Huskerdarren

10 years ago

Originally Posted by BUFFALOBT

Hey Husker,

I banged out 2 editions back in 2012 all using email and the phone.

Stopped because I have a full-time job...didn't have the time needed to keep it up.

I love the business model...where else can you NET 3K without ever leaving your house, and never having to buy anything...for every edition you do?

I have been thinking strongly lately about diving back in.

Peace,

BT

Me too. I was unsuccessful at my first go around because I didn't have a focused strategy and lost interest. Since reading Amber's WSO, I've gotten some great ideas to pursue this with email, direct mail and phone prospecting. I'm going to add value with daily deal offerings, mobile coupons and possibly landing pages. In the email, Bob just sent out, he's urging folks to ramp up for a Valentines Day card and I think it's a great idea.

To every obstacle that comes up, there is a solution if we'll look hard enough. I too have a regular 9 to 5, but I'm not going to let that stop me.

Thanks

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Synnuh

10 years ago

Damn, 15x12 is pretty sweet. I'm going to check it out when I get some time.

I guess the main thing I am wondering with the whole project is... how is it best to pitch this type of thing? I am guessing telling them what it is, go over the benefits, then the 5cent cost per house, and ask to reserve a spot?

I know the business owners don't care what a "QR Code" is but I can tell them that it is another way to track the return on the card.

Thanks
2 replies

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Matt Lee

10 years ago

Originally Posted by insuranceguy

Damn, 15x12 is pretty sweet. I'm going to check it out when I get some time.

I guess the main thing I am wondering with the whole project is... how is it best to pitch this type of thing? I am guessing telling them what it is, go over the benefits, then the 5cent cost per house, and ask to reserve a spot?

I know the business owners don't care what a "QR Code" is but I can tell them that it is another way to track the return on the card.

Forget the QR code- nobody uses them (not enough anyway that will boost the value significant enough to make it worth your wild).

How do you pitch it? I'd go in with a sample card, during the morning or afternoon (not lunch time) and try to talk with the owners & decision makers of local businesses in my area. Tell them that you're a local business marketer (or whatever) and you're starting a new big card direct mail program.

Push the "delivered to 10k" benefit

Make sure they understand that they get exclusivity i.e. only 1 Chinese restaurant, 1 pizza place, etc.

Convey the value, and quality of the card. There's many "mailers" but make sure they understand why the big card is better. Let them touch it, feel it, etc.

Tell them you'll give them $50 off this first card, to start a business relationship with them.

Most importantly, be confident. The card will sell itself.

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Synnuh

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Matt Lee

Forget the QR code- nobody uses them (not enough anyway that will boost the value significant enough to make it worth your wild).

How do you pitch it? I'd go in with a sample card, during the morning or afternoon (not lunch time) and try to talk with the owners & decision makers of local businesses in my area. Tell them that you're a local business marketer (or whatever) and you're starting a new big card direct mail program.

Push the "delivered to 10k" benefit

Make sure they understand that they get exclusivity i.e. only 1 Chinese restaurant, 1 pizza place, etc.

Convey the value, and quality of the card. There's many "mailers" but make sure they understand why the big card is better. Let them touch it, feel it, etc.

Tell them you'll give them $50 off this first card, to start a business relationship with them.

Most importantly, be confident. The card will sell itself.

I apologize if this is.. I dunno how to put it, not sure if I made it known or not? I don't want that to be construed the wrong way!

Anyways, I have a card mocked up that I took around to do some research. It probably wasn't the best idea, because it didn't turn out too well. They let me know there were numerous people in my area trying this same thing, asking for $100 to $200 per ad.

Having said that, do you still feel that asking for $495 and offering $50 is good? Just do it, and if they bawk, onto the next? How do I tell them (4 out of 5 told me the prices the others were asking for) that the $100 is them, but I am $495, make it out to...?

I was nervous going in, I'm definitely not a sales guy, or a social/outgoing type of person in general. I pushed the benefits that I listed in the OP, but didn't push for a close.

I want to make sure that my conversation/pitch (hate calling it that) with the owners is good, and that I am just lacking confidence in the price, and the product.

I'll drop the QR code and website (more work, anyway!) and look into the 15x12 cards. Mocking up some ad sizes and display formats to see how much profit could be generated with it.

Thanks
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jimbo13

10 years ago

If others in your area are already doing this have you ever seen one?

Sounds like you have not so where are they being posted?

$100 is loose change not a business decision so if this is the case nearly everyone who told you this would have agreed to do it.

Did they?

If yes what was their return?

If not why not?

None of them have said 'look here it is' and all of them would have a few copies so why haven't they shown you?'

Seems a little odd to me.

Now that doesn't mean it is not true as I am obviously not there and also I can't relate to these costs as I am used to £££s in England not $$$s where ever you live, but I would know the answers to the above by now.

And if it is true that you can get an Ad on a shared mailer delivered to 10,000 homes for $100 or $200 in your area then yes you are way overpriced.

There is almost zero benefit to me using you other than the 1% return may be profitable, so I would just repeat order the $100 or $200 one.

Dan

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baxterblue

10 years ago

Originally Posted by jimbo13

If others in your area are already doing this have you ever seen one?

Sounds like you have not so where are they being posted?

$100 is loose change not a business decision so if this is the case nearly everyone who told you this would have agreed to do it.

Did they?

If yes what was their return?

If not why not?

None of them have said 'look here it is' and all of them would have a few copies so why haven't they shown you?'

Seems a little odd to me.

Now that doesn't mean it is not true as I am obviously not there and also I can't relate to these costs as I am used to £££s in England not $$ where ever you live, but I would know the answers to the above by now.

And if it is true that you can get an Ad on a shared mailer delivered to 10,000 homes for $100 or $200 in your area then yes you are way overpriced.

There is almost zero benefit to me using you other than the 1% return may be profitable, so I would just repeat order the $100 or $200 one.

Dan

I totally agree. Just by doing some simple math I don't think that an average sale price of $150 would pay for the printing or postage.

$150 x 15 ads = $2,250 per mailing.

Now I don't know what the postage cost is but i would guess at least $1,500 and then add the postage for another $300 - $500.

It just doesn't add up. You, the biz owner or both are not comparing apples to apples. Maybe the biz owner is confused with a totally different program.

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Synnuh

10 years ago

Originally Posted by jimbo13

If others in your area are already doing this have you ever seen one?

Sounds like you have not so where are they being posted?

$100 is loose change not a business decision so if this is the case nearly everyone who told you this would have agreed to do it.

Did they?

If yes what was their return?

If not why not?

None of them have said 'look here it is' and all of them would have a few copies so why haven't they shown you?'

Seems a little odd to me.

Now that doesn't mean it is not true as I am obviously not there and also I can't relate to these costs as I am used to £££s in England not $$ where ever you live, but I would know the answers to the above by now.

And if it is true that you can get an Ad on a shared mailer delivered to 10,000 homes for $100 or $200 in your area then yes you are way overpriced.

There is almost zero benefit to me using you other than the 1% return may be profitable, so I would just repeat order the $100 or $200 one.

Dan

I've never seen one, like what we're talking about. Car dealers, HVAC, etc use the 9x12 all the time, for themselves only, though.

You're right about the $100. I didn't dig in to what they were saying because I'm not really a pushy person. I don't think they could have answered those questions, though. $100 is tossed around, probably the same as £100.

I don't think you can truly get it for that price, but I haven't done any research to determine whether or not it is true.

The benefit is what I'm trying to figure out. I've got a few days to get this together before I start working on it again.

Originally Posted by baxterblue

I totally agree. Just by doing some simple math I don't think that an average sale price of $150 would pay for the printing or postage.

$150 x 15 ads = $2,250 per mailing.

Now I don't know what the postage cost is but i would guess at least $1,500 and then add the postage for another $300 - $500.

It just doesn't add up. You, the biz owner or both are not comparing apples to apples. Maybe the biz owner is confused with a totally different program.

The printing is $900 + $200 shipping, and the postage is $1600 + $115 tax. The total comes to $2,815 with a $185 break even point on each ad.

I'm thinking I just haven't pushed it properly. I had the mockup card with me, and a list of the benefits on the back.

I'd assumed (wrong, I know) that I could walk in and businesses would want to jump on board because they were growing their own business.

----------------------

So with this, just walk into the businesses, talking about the benefits of what I'm doing and how cheap it is for them to get on board? Then what happens when they start objecting? Go back to the low cost, run over the benefits again?

Keep repeating until they kick me out or give me a check?

I'm not completely comfortable with the process, but I'm also not against it at all. I know not being assertive enough cost me sales in insurance, but if it's just a simple 'get over yourself' I can, and will, and put in some more effort.

Thanks
1 reply

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BUFFALOBT

10 years ago

Originally Posted by insuranceguy

I've never seen one, like what we're talking about. Car dealers, HVAC, etc use the 9x12 all the time, for themselves only, though.

You're right about the $100. I didn't dig in to what they were saying because I'm not really a pushy person. I don't think they could have answered those questions, though. $100 is tossed around, probably the same as £100.

I don't think you can truly get it for that price, but I haven't done any research to determine whether or not it is true.

The benefit is what I'm trying to figure out. I've got a few days to get this together before I start working on it again.

The printing is $900 + $200 shipping, and the postage is $1600 + $115 tax. The total comes to $2,815 with a $185 break even point on each ad.

I'm thinking I just haven't pushed it properly. I had the mockup card with me, and a list of the benefits on the back.

I'd assumed (wrong, I know) that I could walk in and businesses would want to jump on board because they were growing their own business.

----------------------

So with this, just walk into the businesses, talking about the benefits of what I'm doing and how cheap it is for them to get on board? Then what happens when they start objecting? Go back to the low cost, run over the benefits again?

Keep repeating until they kick me out or give me a check?

I'm not completely comfortable with the process, but I'm also not against it at all. I know not being assertive enough cost me sales in insurance, but if it's just a simple 'get over yourself' I can, and will, and put in some more effort.

Just emailed you...

Thanks

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BUFFALOBT

10 years ago

Originally Posted by insuranceguy

Damn, 15x12 is pretty sweet. I'm going to check it out when I get some time.

I guess the main thing I am wondering with the whole project is... how is it best to pitch this type of thing? I am guessing telling them what it is, go over the benefits, then the 5cent cost per house, and ask to reserve a spot?

I know the business owners don't care what a "QR Code" is but I can tell them that it is another way to track the return on the card.

I don't sell anything...I share it with them.

You need to stumble on the ones who "get it", and move on from the ones who don't.

This is a very simple business model...you are in or out.

Thanks

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txmediaman

10 years ago

I too tried this a few months ago without much success. I got a couple of NOs and many others told me the owner of the biz wasn't available. To be fair, I must say I only tried this for about four-to-five days until I grew tired of not progressing, and just quit. I really think this is a good idea but very hard to sell (at least for me). Occasionally I still think about trying it again but I'm easily discouraged. Any advice?

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BUFFALOBT

10 years ago

Originally Posted by txmediaman

I too tried this a few months ago without much success. I got a couple of NOs and many others told me the owner of the biz wasn't available. To be fair, I must say I only tried this for about four-to-five days until I grew tired of not progressing, and just quit. I really think this is a good idea but very hard to sell (at least for me). Occasionally I still think about trying it again but I'm easily discouraged. Any advice?

I'm getting close to diving back in, but with less ads...12 instead of the 14 I rolled with the last go around.

Same pricing, but will add a few things to make it an even easier decision for the business owner.

I'll make less, but the goal is to have less pressure to fill each card.

Happy to pull you along if you're up for it. You do one there...I'll do one here.

I'll share my exact model...all designed to be as easy as possible to get ads sold.

Thanks

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baxterblue

10 years ago

I personally really like the 9x12 system and I agree with you also... I would have thought that it would be a "easy" sale compared to a lot of other services being offered to small biz's.

On a side note...
I have something that would help add value to your sales and would help make closing sales a lot easier and faster - I think it would separate you from the other companies offering direct marketing also. This would fit perfectly with the 9x12 system. Shoot me a PM if your'e interested.

Thanks

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OfflineWars

10 years ago

BuffaloBT & Insurance Guy, Got a good thread here going and makes a good case study, keep us updated.. thank you!

Thanks

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ozlizard

10 years ago

Why do IM sell these ideas to us?

Because they try them until they fail then they use the early info to sell the idea to us.

This isn't sustainable. You need at least 12-16 businesses who get a great response to their offer every time, otherwise they pull out and you have to get new ones.

I tried it and it didn't work.

Thanks
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bob ross

10 years ago

Originally Posted by ozlizard

Why do IM sell these ideas to us?

Because they try them until they fail then they use the early info to sell the idea to us.

This isn't sustainable. You need at least 12-16 businesses who get a great response to their offer every time, otherwise they pull out and you have to get new ones.

I tried it and it didn't work.

Easy fix. Stop selling them ads hinged on response. I bet most of us with cards out would agree that our recurring advertisers typically care less about response; they want the exposure.

You think a newspaper ad rep, tv rep, radio rep, and outdoor billboard rep, finds their advertisers pulling out every time there's no response?

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Huskerdarren

10 years ago

Originally Posted by bob ross

Easy fix. Stop selling them ads hinged on response. I bet most of us with cards out would agree that our recurring advertisers typically care less about response; they want the exposure.

You think a newspaper ad rep, tv rep, radio rep, and outdoor billboard rep, finds their advertisers pulling out every time there's no response?

************************************************** ********
So true. It is a mini billboard delivered right to the mailbox, with a 100% 'open rate' and a call to action. That's better than a billboard IMO.

You can see the businesses that get their offers out in many different ways all at once (billboards, radio, TV, newspaper, postcards, coupon mailers, email marketing, daily deals, register rect's and on and on) Worst case, I think any business that advertises with EDDM breaks even. But if they have a compelling offer and use it to build their own list, they can market to existing and past customers.

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mojo1

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Huskerdarren

************************************************** ********
So true. It is a mini billboard delivered right to the mailbox, with a 100% 'open rate' and a call to action. That's better than a billboard IMO.

You can see the businesses that get their offers out in many different ways all at once (billboards, radio, TV, newspaper, postcards, coupon mailers, email marketing, daily deals, register rect's and on and on) Worst case, I think any business that advertises with EDDM breaks even. But if they have a compelling offer and use it to build their own list, they can market to existing and past customers.

Recent Harvard study echos this exact conclusion:
Unused Coupons Still Pay Off - Harvard Business Review

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Doran Peck 10 years ago

Originally Posted by mojo1

Recent Harvard study echos this exact conclusion:
Unused Coupons Still Pay Off - Harvard Business Review

Great find Mojo1 ! Thank You. This is golden for 9x12ers. Don't be shy about letting your clients read this.

As I've often said, mail success is not always about the list. Exposure, awareness, and the ability to nudge thinking in your direction have significant value.

Kudos Mojo.
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Achiz768

10 years ago

insuranceguy: I'd have to say that the biggest thing to talk up when it comes to the postcard is exclusivity. Business owners are happy to pay premium prices in my experience because they are the ONLY pizza joint or salon or whatever.
Also- I always present the pricing as half down--half upon ad approval. So I don't say--well the ad is $450--instead I say something like, "To lock in your spot on our upcoming 10k drop it's just $225 today--you'll be the ONLY pizza place on the card we won't allow any of your competitors--we'll take care of everything so you have no headaches--the design, the copywriting, printing and mailing. Once you approve your ad then you'll go ahead and pay the other half of $225. What's the best email address to go ahead and send the invoice to? (or however you're taking payment).

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Mady1234

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Achiz768

insuranceguy: I'd have to say that the biggest thing to talk up when it comes to the postcard is exclusivity. Business owners are happy to pay premium prices in my experience because they are the ONLY pizza joint or salon or whatever.
Also- I always present the pricing as half down--half upon ad approval. So I don't say--well the ad is $450--instead I say something like, "To lock in your spot on our upcoming 10k drop it's just $225 today--you'll be the ONLY pizza place on the card we won't allow any of your competitors--we'll take care of everything so you have no headaches--the design, the copywriting, printing and mailing. Once you approve your ad then you'll go ahead and pay the other half of $225. What's the best email address to go ahead and send the invoice to? (or however you're taking payment).

Hi Amber,

Read your course, really innovative! My compliments

Thanks
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Achiz768 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Mady1234

Hi Amber,

Read your course, really innovative! My compliments

Thanks!! I'd love to hear your success story with it
- Thanks
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