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Is this a game changer?

by TheBigBee
47 replies
There's a ton of info I'd like to condense to share with you folks so as to get your opinion. I'll try to make this short and sweet, lets start with a story.

You walk into a business, and offer to set them up with some direct mail marketing using EDDM. You add on SMS, plus daily deals so they get cash instantly + opt ins. You sit down and see that in order to get a mailer out it's going to cost about .30 cents a card to you - total. You mark that up to $1 per card because you justify it this way:
  1. 10,000 people will receive cards; "win free pizza for life."
  2. 1,000 to 1,500 will opt-in (this projection is based on some research done on Google.
  3. One person will get a free pizza pie each month for "life."
  4. 999 to 1,499 people will get a consolation offer; "You didn't win the grand prize, but purchase this coupon for 50% off."
  5. 99 to 149 people are going to buy (based on Groupon data and other sources.
  6. The average price of a Groupon is $25, so the busines owner just generated $2,500, and if he does it once per month (one text blast deal), he'll bring in another $30k per year.

Ok, so now that you have justified your price and the business owner is following along and agrees this makes sense ESPECIALLY if they have run a daily deal, how do you get $10,000 out of a guy?

My strategy was to make it easy for them to sign up and apply for an alaternative business loan. It turns out that while everything made sense on paper - folks found it hard to pull the trigger. I had contracts and funding approvals, but couldn't get folks to sign a piece of appear to receive the funds. Getting wired on Monday for $10k, and having me take the entire $10k on Tuesday was a bit much for folks to swallow.

So, I went back on the phone and sold "air." I said to people; "it will cost you nothing to get started, we simply will get paid from your future credit / debit card receivables." Selling that was fantastically easy. The hard part came in actually setting everything up...

Now that you have a $10,000 receivable that you'll get paid on over 6 months, what is it worth if you can't get this guys' mailer done for the $3,000 right now? What are you going to say to the guy; "I am going to collect a few grand from you before I do any work? It's going to take 2 months..." No way in hell anyone buys that.

So, what I did was went out and found a funding company who will operate under the following scenario:
  1. You go out and close whatever sale you want - direct mail, SEO, etc and get the merchant to sign a document to pay you directly to your bank account - every single day via his future credit / debit card swipes.
  2. At this point this note has zero value unless you have the upfront cost on hand, so a funding company I am partnered with will purchase the notes.
  3. You sell them at a discount, passing the risk on to the funding company, let's say you book a $10k sale, they'll give you $6k or $7k to cash out. If your mailers are thirty cents a pop, you are doubling your money - using other people's money.
  4. The most important thing is that you have now delivered your clients customers on credit, for absolutely nothing down. A ton of marketing, and instant cash - its like magic.

I am pretty pumped up about all of this... However, just because this will be valuable for me to have in ANYTHING I sell, doesn't mean it will be as valuable to you, as it is to me. So, as I contemplate helping Warriors get set up on a program like this, I'd like to know whether or not I am wasting my time? There's a TON of work that goes into tying all of this together to make it all freakishly simple for marketer, business owner, and funding company, and I cannot afford to put in 100 or so hours into this if it's not going to make any of you richer.

Is this something you guys would want / use? Is being able to walk into a business, sell anything you want zero down, and have someone else pay you for your services a game changer for your life and financial situation?

I welcome your thoughts - thanks in advance for your feedback folks!
#changer #game
  • Profile picture of the author Ron Lafuddy
    TheBigBee

    Is this something you guys would want / use?

    No.

    I don't like dealing with businesses that are cash poor or broke. I find that there's a certain mentality that goes with that condition, that I just can't work with.

    By the way Bee, a much easier approach is just find businesses that have the money to pay you. They are everywhere. When a business owner actually wants what you have to offer more than you want to sell it to him - the money is never a problem.

    I have seen money and checkbooks magically appear, when the customer initially claimed they weren't available. What changed? They really wanted what I was offering.

    Selling to buyers who are hungry for what you've got, rather than working on fancy financing schemes, is a better use of your time. IMO
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    • Profile picture of the author midasman09
      Banned
      Hey BigBee....you're in the wrong "Hive"!

      Your thingee is not for people looking to make money with their KeyBoard! You need to contact people on the "Direct Sales"sites.....Entrepreneur Mag, etc....and people with Huge lists of "Sales" people you can work a JV with.

      When I first started setting up "dealers" or "Buyers of my Biz-Ops"....I went to Ads in "Opportunity Mags" and USA Today (until the MLM bs caused them to shut down)

      Don Alm
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      • Profile picture of the author ThePromotionalGuy
        Bee,

        Follow the money, not borrowed money.

        Why would you want to slap more debt on a business that can't work within their current budgets?

        If a business owner won't pull the trigger then you did not prequalify them and to make this project work you go out to find financing in the hopes they'll finally say yes.

        This is to risky on many levels.

        Find businesses that have an interest and the capital to move forward. Remember you're a marketer not a financial counselor.
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        • Profile picture of the author TheBigBee
          Originally Posted by ThePromotionalGuy View Post

          Bee,

          Follow the money, not borrowed money.

          Why would want to slap more debt on a business that can't work within their current budgets?

          If a business owner won't pull the trigger then you did not prequalify them and to make this project work you go out to find financing in the hopes they'll finally say yes.

          This is to risky on many levels.

          Find businesses that have an interest and the capital to move forward. Remember you're a marketer not a financial counselor.
          Referencing my car service example - the guy is banking $40k per month and would rather borrow money to invest in marketing, and use the $40k to buy more cars and pay for existing ones.

          We all share the opinion that you should go out and find folks who are willing to pay you. The market for folks who will take a "bad marketing deal" is much greater exponentially greater than the market for folks who have the money and are willing to pay you. Want proof? Every daily deal site is a bad deal for the business owner.

          Also lets not forget one thing, you should sell what people are willing to buy. period. My mistake - my biggest mistake in all of my failures is that I have been trying to be "too smart" for my customers by selling them what I want them to buy, rather, I should be selling them what I know they will buy. Here is the plain simple fact of the matter, and I strongly encourage you to validate for yourself.

          The market for folks who would love to get a ton of new customers for almost next to nothing up front is way larger than the market for folks who can be sold high ticket marketing. If the deal sites can rake in billions from these types of businesses, and literally have them on wait lists, surely I, or you can scoop up six figures in value per year, closing just 3 sales a month...

          Get customers now, pay for them later.
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      It's going to be very difficult to sell.

      You have to sell clients on the promotion...then you have to sell them on financing. Even if it's from future CC sales..it's still financing.

      And why accept a 30-40% discount from the "Factor" company?

      I hate to say this....

      But there used to be a real need for this kind of financing. Years ago, most people had no credit cards...or a $500 limit.

      Now? If they have good credit, most have $10,000 available on a card (or small group of cards). How do I know? Because I sell a $6,000 service. And they pay up front. So they pay with credit cards..or a check.

      And the people that own businesses and can't use their credit cards for this kind of offer? They usually have bad credit...and will be a real problem.

      Sell your promotion, not the fact that you'll arrange financing. Just like Ron said.

      As far as offering this set up to others? Maybe. But I can tell you know that they will have a hard time selling it. And, with all due respect...

      I know how this works, I really do. And it isn't a scam. But it sure can sound like one, when you try to explain it to a prospective client.
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      • Profile picture of the author TheBigBee
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        It's going to be very difficult to sell.

        You have to sell clients on the promotion...then you have to sell them on financing. Even if it's from future CC sales..it's still financing.

        And why accept a 30-40% discount from the "Factor" company?

        I hate to say this....

        But there used to be a real need for this kind of financing. Years ago, most people had no credit cards...or a $500 limit.

        Now? If they have good credit, most have $10,000 available on a card (or small group of cards). How do I know? Because I sell a $6,000 service. And they pay up front. So the pay with credit cards..or a check.

        And the people that own businesses and can't use their credit cards for this kind of offer? They usually have bad credit...and will be a real problem.

        Sell your promotion, not the fact that you'll arrange financing. Just like Ron said.

        As far as offering this set up to others? Maybe. But I can tell you know that they will have a hard time selling it. And, with all due respect...

        I know how this works, I really do. And it isn't a scam. But it sure can sound like one, when you try to explain it to a prospective client.

        Claude,

        The first sale was made under this arrangement earlier. There's a car service I pitched this to back in August over the phone. He's focusing on putting cars on the road with Über and has this balance he's trying to strike; how to keep buying cars, and also invest in marketing?

        We met in person, he was excited about everything. We arranged for the financing, he got approved, all was going well. Then when I sent the contracts over, he went radio silent. I finally got him to respond and he said something about "try next year..." yeah right.

        I pinged him today after I got the deal done to sell my receivables and he said this; "that makes a lot more sense to me now, lets do it."

        In between August and now, I realized that I should be going squarely after daily deal retailers. That was a wise decision because I've gone from speaking Greek to English when I prospect. I attack Groupon head on using 5 salient points, visuals, and a video.

        So having closed this under this pretext today, naturally, I am pretty pumped. I figured if I could do it, anyone who is dabbling in direct mail can.
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        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
          Originally Posted by TheBigBee View Post

          Claude,

          The first sale was made under this arrangement earlier. There's a car service I pitched this to back in August over the phone. He's focusing on putting cars on the road with Über and has this balance he's trying to strike; how to keep buying cars, and also invest in marketing?

          We met in person, he was excited about everything. We arranged for the financing, he got approved, all was going well. Then when I sent the contracts over, he went radio silent. I finally got him to respond and he said something about "try next year..." yeah right.

          I pinged him today after I got the deal done to sell my receivables and he said this; "that makes a lot more sense to me now, lets do it."

          In between August and now, I realized that I should be going squarely after daily deal retailers. That was a wise decision because I've gone from speaking Greek to English when I prospect. I attack Groupon head on using 5 salient points, visuals, and a video.

          So having closed this under this pretext today, naturally, I am pretty pumped. I figured if I could do it, anyone who is dabbling in direct mail can.
          I get it. You are finding people that this will solve a problem for.

          When I sold in people's homes, I had lots of sales to "financing motivated" customers. The financing is really what sold them.

          But, as a group, they aren't the best customers. If you are going ahead with this, may I make a suggestion? Lead with it. Use it in a direct mail piece or an e-mail, or a cold call.

          Something like "Want To Market Your Business But Lack The Funds Right Now?" then "New program allows you to pay for your marketing out of the profits of the sales you generate. Call...to see if you qualify".

          You now have a couple of examples of this working.

          My thought was on larger scale business, this will appeal to a small segment. But if you target them first, you'll see if it's how you want to sell.

          Good luck, an I'll look forward to seeing the results.
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          • Profile picture of the author TheBigBee
            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

            I get it. You are finding people that this will solve a problem for.

            When I sold in people's homes, I had lots of sales to "financing motivated" customers. The financing is really what sold them.

            But, as a group, they aren't the best customers. If you are going ahead with this, may I make a suggestion? Lead with it. Use it in a direct mail piece or an e-mail, or a cold call.

            Something like "Want To Market Your Business But Lack The Funds Right Now?" then "New program allows you to pay for your marketing out of the profits of the sales you generate. Call...to see if you qualify".

            You now have a couple of examples of this working.

            My thought was on larger scale business, this will appeal to a small segment. But if you target them first, you'll see if it's how you want to sell.

            Good luck, an I'll look forward to seeing the results.
            Claude

            I hammer hard with the tag lines; "customers on credit," and "get customers now and pay for them later." My video does a lot of the heavy lifting.

            But this is not about my product - it's about a new form of alt financing that accidentally created to help me sell this product. I know this is not your thing, but if it were you could sell your marketing packages this way at a higher price. Again, this may not be your thing.

            Finally, I had the chance to consult for two funders; one likes premium deals. One likes sub prime. The guy doing the sub prime stuff is closing 400 deals a month, the premiumt guy is around 75. Sub prime marketing companies (Groupon) cater and make a killing off of businesses on the verge of shutting down. Clearly the market is huge.

            Quite honestly I'll sell whatever they're buying on credit, I'll have a field day calling marketing firms, SEO companies, etc to help them convert their junky sub prime stuff into wads of cash.

            Posting here may have been a mistake - no one "gets it."

            You are being paid by a finance company to deliver your services. If that's not impactful I don't know what it is.
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            • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
              Originally Posted by TheBigBee View Post

              Claude

              I hammer hard with the tag lines; "customers on credit," and "get customers now and pay for them later." My video does a lot of the heavy lifting.

              But this is not about my product - it's about a new form of alt financing that accidentally created to help me sell this product. I know this is not your thing, but if it were you could sell your marketing packages this way at a higher price. Again, this may not be your thing.

              Finally, I had the chance to consult for two funders; one likes premium deals. One likes sub prime. The guy doing the sub prime stuff is closing 400 deals a month, the premiumt guy is around 75. Sub prime marketing companies (Groupon) cater and make a killing off of businesses on the verge of shutting down. Clearly the market is huge.

              Quite honestly I'll sell whatever they're buying on credit, I'll have a field day calling marketing firms, SEO companies, etc to help them convert their junky sub prime stuff into wads of cash.

              Posting here may have been a mistake - no one "gets it."

              You are being paid by a finance company to deliver your services. If that's not impactful I don't know what it is.
              You're a lot further along with this than I thought. I see the marketing now.

              I think I get it now. It wasn't clear before.

              If you create a WSO, I'll certainly buy it. It sounds a lot more interesting now.
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            • Profile picture of the author akazo
              Originally Posted by TheBigBee View Post

              Posting here may have been a mistake - no one "gets it."

              You are being paid by a finance company to deliver your services. If that's not impactful I don't know what it is.
              I'm not trying to be a jerk, but I still think that your financing concept, not business model, is flawed.

              1. Maybe the reason you have a hard time getting $10K from a client is because they don't see the return.

              2. Maybe some people do get it, but, in your example, you mention that you could sell the note for $6K. If you are willing to do the work for $6K, why don't you offer it to the client for that and deliver even greater value? You just might have an easier sell.

              3. I haven't had too many clients that don't have access to $6K even if it is on a credit card. If they don't have a credit card with a $6K limit, do you think they will be credit worthy enough to get financing for $10K?

              I guess the answers will probably be in a WSO...
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              • Profile picture of the author TheBigBee
                Originally Posted by akazo View Post

                I'm not trying to be a jerk, but I still think that your financing concept, not business model, is flawed.

                1. Maybe the reason you have a hard time getting $10K from a client is because they don't see the return.

                2. Maybe some people do get it, but, in your example, you mention that you could sell the note for $6K. If you are willing to do the work for $6K, why don't you offer it to the client for that and deliver even greater value? You just might have an easier sell.

                3. I haven't had too many clients that don't have access to $6K even if it is on a credit card. If they don't have a credit card with a $6K limit, do you think they will be credit worthy enough to get financing for $10K?

                I guess the answers will probably be in a WSO...
                1. I actually closed that $10k sale. I've alluded to that numerous times here. Here's how the deal worked. The merchant agreed to sign me over $10,000 of his credit card and debit card swipes over six months, with a maximum daily hold back of 20% of his swipes. In order to cover the $3k to get him going, I sold that receivable to the guy who brought me into the business and who now is a funder looking for "out of the box" oppty's. He bought it from me at a great discount, but I still come out with sick profit.


                2. The sale price is $10k. That's what the merchant pays. The funder buys this $10k receivable for $6k ish. My cost is $3k. Rich people grow rich using other people's money... This is a prime example of this whopping you upside the head. However, lets unpack this further.

                This is the point you are missing entirely here. Even business owners who do not have $6k, are not willing to cough it up all at one time unless you're Claude Whitacre. Claude crushes it because HE'S ONE OF THEM. He's a retailer. THAT'S HIS SECRET, THAT'S WHY 99.9% OF YOU WILL FAIL TRYING TO REPLICATE / BE LIKE CLAUDE.

                They don't feel they are being sold by "some marketing guy who needs to get a real job." Someone like them, who was in their shoes is helping them out and making a few bucks in the process.

                Also, men lie, women lie, numbers don't. Daily Deal sites have proven that business owners are dumb. The fact that you would not want to capitalize on this stupidity is beyond me, they have proven that STUPID BUSINESS OWNERS ARE A MULTI BILLION DOLLAR MARKET. THEIR MODEL IS WOEFULLY FLAWED, BUT THEIR ARE RAKING IT IN AREN'T THEY!??

                There are owners literally wait listed. Lining up for months to be screwed. Why? Because they can get customers now, without paying anything up front. So, if you would like to place a bet with me that I can sell "CUSTOMERS ON CREDIT" for $6k faster than you could ever collect a check for $6k, I'll definitely bet $6k and put it in escrow. Keep in mind that I have spent a few thousand dollars on graphic design and video, site, etc. so my presentation is on point...

                I've been living this split funding / merchant financing thing for 5 years... I didn't just hop out of bed with a brain fart last night. I was the first human being to get a credit card processor to agree to do split batching for a NON business finance related product. I HAD to convince at least one in order to make the now defunct Grubraise work.

                3. THIS IS AN AMAZING POINT. The market of business owners who do not have access to $6k is HUGE. I generated over 5,000 business funding leads for all of my clients combined this year and MOST of these folks were applying for an alternative loan because they did not already have the money laying around. To further this amazing point you made, pick up the phone and call 10 daily deal retailers in their area tomorrow. Screw it, call 5. Use the "Interview Method" - there's a WSO about this around here, found out how many DAILY DEAL retailers (in smaller markets, not NYC) have access to $6k via cash, credit, credit line, or a combination. Then ask them if getting customers on credit is something they'd be interested in?

                Finally, the market for alternative financing has been growing exponentially each year. Amazon is dablling into funding, PayPal has a partner its offering funding through, Zazma is pretty cool... The list goes on. Why is the demand for money gone up? Can it be because business owners have less of it?

                I know you are not trying to be a jerk, it's just that you don't quite understand what is going on here. Let's OVER simplify this. YOU the marketer are getting a FINANCE COMPANY TO PAY YOU DIRECTLY FOR SERVICES RENDERED TO A BROKE BUSINESS OWNER. They take all the risk, you get paid. They have built their entire business around dealing with stupid business owners, so they have systems close to 20 years old to keep the market oppty lucrative.

                I hope this clarifies things.
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    • Profile picture of the author TheBigBee
      Originally Posted by Ron Lafuddy View Post

      TheBigBee

      Is this something you guys would want / use?

      No.

      I don't like dealing with businesses that are cash poor or broke. I find that there's a certain mentality that goes with that condition, that I just can't work with.

      By the way Bee, a much easier approach is just find businesses that have the money to pay you. They are everywhere. When a business owner actually wants what you have to offer more than you want to sell it to him - the money is never a problem.

      I have seen money and checkbooks magically appear, when the customer initially claimed they weren't available. What changed? They really wanted what I was offering.

      Selling to buyers who are hungry for what you've got, rather than working on fancy financing schemes, is a better use of your time. IMO

      Ron,

      I really appreciate your opinion. No fewer than 5,000 alternative loan / business cash advance deals are done each year where the stated intent was "I need money for marketing." I know because I sold my first deal 5 years ago and this summer was paid a crap load by a client to devise scaleable ways to find these exact type of customers. They didn't want desperate customers - they wanted the guy who wants to invest.

      In conducting interviews with these folks they say "I need money for marketing" but most had no real plan on how to spend it. So "Customers on credit" was born to address this issue. I gave them a very specific value prop. Getting their eyes to dance was easy - getting signed contracts back was hard.

      Ron you seem like you can def walk into any business and sell a $10k marketing package and have the guy cut you a check on the spot. Not everyone is as skilled as you are, so this is a way for the little guy to get more bigger sales - faster.

      I have a ton of GORGEOUS marketing collateral I can email you so you can pitch air.

      Let's keep it simple though. Groupon makes an average if $15k PER merchant per deal. Groupon charges zero to get going. Groupon is a bad deal because folks don't own the customers - they rent them.

      The most inept Warrior is going to turn half of the people he approaches who have run Groupons into hot leads. Why? 50% say never again. That's the market I have been targeting. Re-engineering the financing will def lead to a nice residual income if I focus on a targeted direct mail campaign.
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  • Profile picture of the author akazo
    Originally Posted by TheBigBee View Post

    1. 10,000 people will receive cards; "win free pizza for life."
    2. 1,000 to 1,500 will opt-in (this projection is based on some research done on Google.
    3. One person will get a free pizza pie each month for "life."
    4. 999 to 1,499 people will get a consolation offer; "You didn't win the grand prize, but purchase this coupon for 50% off."
    5. 99 to 149 people are going to buy (based on Groupon data and other sources.
    6. The average price of a Groupon is $25, so the busines owner just generated $2,500, and if he does it once per month (one text blast deal), he'll bring in another $30k per year.
    I'm not sure that the numbers are there... Say you live in an area with even 50,000 households close enough to the restaurant for the offer to be attractive to them (That's a big city considering average husehold sizes!). You would run out of households after 5 mailings. Who would want to make the same offer to the same people again and again? There is no doing "it once per month" only 5 months.

    The majority of businesses can't offer services at half price every time, just the first time to get customers in the door. They have too much overhead to offer the same discount again and again to the same customers.
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    • Profile picture of the author TheBigBee
      Originally Posted by akazo View Post

      I'm not sure that the numbers are there... Say you live in an area with even 50,000 households close enough to the restaurant for the offer to be attractive to them (That's a big city considering average husehold sizes!). You would run out of households after 5 mailings. Who would want to make the same offer to the same people again and again? There is no doing "it once per month" only 5 months.

      The majority of businesses can't offer services at half price every time, just the first time to get customers in the door. They have too much overhead to offer the same discount again and again to the same customers.
      After you have collected the SMS numbers via the original mailing, you never have to mail again on behalf of that business.

      Keep in mind, this is the way MY business is set up as I am in NYC. Millions of people here, I'll never run out of mailings. Impossible. So, I am not asking for feedback on my business / business model. I am asking for feedback as to whether or not offering alternative financing to clients is something Warriors would want to do.
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      • Profile picture of the author akazo
        Originally Posted by TheBigBee View Post

        After you have collected the SMS numbers via the original mailing, you never have to mail again on behalf of that business.

        Keep in mind, this is the way MY business is set up as I am in NYC. Millions of people here, I'll never run out of mailings. Impossible. So, I am not asking for feedback on my business / business model. I am asking for feedback as to whether or not offering alternative financing to clients is something Warriors would want to do.
        I've been to NYC many times due to many friends there, and people do not venture out of their neighborhoods enough to make mailing too far away from your target business attractive enough to consumers to get the return you are anticipating. You can run out of 'good" mailings.

        But fair enough, I will stay out of your discussion... good luck!
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        • Profile picture of the author TheBigBee
          Originally Posted by akazo View Post

          I've been to NYC many times due to many friends there, and people do not venture out of their neighborhoods enough to make mailing too far away from your target business attractive enough to consumers to get the return you are anticipating. You can run out of 'good" mailings.

          But fair enough, I will stay out of your discussion... good luck!
          There's are well over 100k homes per zip code here in Manhattan!
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  • Profile picture of the author mnall01
    Very interesting. I would like to explore this a bit more. A couple of questions;

    1. What are the collection practices of these financing companies? Will they be too aggressive and damage your good will with your customer?


    2. How difficult is it for the customer to pay you daily, and is that a reasonable expectation for a small business owner to follow through with?

    3. What mechanism are you using to track those sales generated by your marketing and matching that up to your daily deposits received?

    4. How does the funding company track the same question above?

    5. I assume SMS isn't included in the $1 per card. If not, what do you charge and do you also include that in the notes you sell to the funding companies?

    Sorry if some of these questions are a bit elementary. The method is intriguing and I would like to understand it a bit better.
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    • Profile picture of the author TheBigBee
      Originally Posted by mnall01 View Post

      Very interesting. I would like to explore this a bit more. A couple of questions;

      1. What are the collection practices of these financing companies? Will they be too aggressive and damage your good will with your customer?


      2. How difficult is it for the customer to pay you daily, and is that a reasonable expectation for a small business owner to follow through with?

      3. What mechanism are you using to track those sales generated by your marketing and matching that up to your daily deposits received?

      4. How does the funding company track the same question above?

      5. I assume SMS isn't included in the $1 per card. If not, what do you charge and do you also include that in the notes you sell to the funding companies?

      Sorry if some of these questions are a bit elementary. The method is intriguing and I would like to understand it a bit better.

      1. Collections are made automatically from a business owners credit card sales. Each day they close the business, a set percentage will be siphoned off (auto magically) to your bank account. Once the sum of all of these deposits total the note size, payments cease. So, if a guy KILLS it Monday for $1,000 in sales, he pays off $200. If the next day he only gets $100 in sales, he pays $20 through his CC sales.

      2. The beauty of it is that there are no collections to be made. Every thing is done through split batching.

      3 & 4. When the note is sold, they know what they are expecting to collect. The merchant processing company that facilitates this issues daily reports.

      5. SMS is absolutely included in the $1 per card. It's 1 cents per SMS. Even if you got 10,000 opt ins, that's still only 200 to send out 2 initial texts to those 10,000 people. All this does is magnify the value of SMS.


      Let me say this, perhaps I went overboard in explaining how this works for MY business. Clearly anyone can do exactly what I am doing with the proper backend support. To that end, this can be used to facilitate the sale of any service you intend to offer.
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  • Profile picture of the author trader909
    My number one rule now

    It's bout 90% of the reason for a successful business.

    Rich people spend $20k getting their dogs false teeth etc....too much money.

    Average Joe.....broke


    I don't like dealing with businesses that are cash poor or broke. I find that there's a certain mentality that goes with that condition, that I just can't work with.
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    • Profile picture of the author TheBigBee
      Originally Posted by trader909 View Post

      My number one rule now

      It's bout 90% of the reason for a successful business.

      Rich people spend $20k getting their dogs false teeth etc....too much money.

      Average Joe.....broke
      When I did door to door sales, it was EXTREMELY difficult to get sales in wealthy neighborhoods. When they would come, they were slightly larger in size, but if you put me in a poor neighborhood, I would tear it to shreds.

      The average broke Joe, is willing to part with his future money more easily than a rich guy. It's way easier to get money out of the average broke Joe. The problem with broke Joe, is that he's broke. So you're taking the only thing he has - his future sales. Then you're selling his future sales to someone else for cash right now.

      You are getting a finance company to pay you for the services you rendered to broke Joe because broke Joe doesn't have the money to pay you right now himself.
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      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
        Originally Posted by TheBigBee View Post

        When I did door to door sales, it was EXTREMELY difficult to get sales in wealthy neighborhoods. When they would come, they were slightly larger in size, but if you put me in a poor neighborhood, I would tear it to shreds.

        The average broke Joe, is willing to part with his future money more easily than a rich guy. It's way easier to get money out of the average broke Joe. The problem with broke Joe, is that he's broke. So you're taking the only thing he has - his future sales. Then you're selling his future sales to someone else for cash right now.

        You are getting a finance company to pay you for the services you rendered to broke Joe because broke Joe doesn't have the money to pay you right now himself.
        My experience exactly. To be honest, in the last several years, I've only been dealing with business owners that have enough money to pay me up front.

        But I see that this market is far larger, and they are far easier to sell, as long as they don't have to pay you up front.

        It's also much easier to get to see them, as they have less layers of management and rarely have a real gatekeeper.

        I'm not sure this is an exact match for me, but I can see how it makes selling much easier.

        When selling in people's homes, a big breakthrough was when I found a company that would finance anyone with a checking account and a phone.

        My sales tripled in a month. It was far easier to get to see these marginal people. And they bought easier. They also gave more referrals than the higher end customer. And, they also occasionally gave you a referral that qualified for either a credit card purchase or our better financing.

        Maybe 25% of my sales were to these bad credit people. The reason my sales tripled is that they gave so many more referrals, and some of those referrals had good credit, or paid cash..

        We never told the customer they were one of out marginal sales. The finance company took 40-60% of the sale. We still made a profit.

        I still think you should print up a WSO. I'd certainly buy it. And I don't think you can explain every detail on a thread like this.
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  • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
    What happens if a client like this closes his doors soon after you start?
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by bizgrower View Post

      What happens if a client like this closes his doors soon after you start?
      The "finance" company bought the note. It's between them and the client. You still have your money. At least that's my understanding.


      Originally Posted by trader909 View Post

      depends hat you re selling. Rich people an't interested in crap generally. Try and sell $1m+ corporate bond to "average Joe".

      "Door to door"....and you were selling what exactly?

      Average Joe doesn't have millions to invest......and that isn't "hawked door to door"
      We aren't selling anything for a million dollars. Or Corporate bonds.

      The assumption that anyone sells "crap" is not founded in reality. For me, it's the same product to everyone. Just the financing is different.

      I can't speak for BigBee.
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      • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        The "finance" company bought the note. It's between them and the client. You still have your money. At least that's my understanding.
        That's what I was guessing. Of course, you would have to clearly set it up that way with the financier.

        Could be good leverage for some businesses. Others, the 20% might hurt their ability to pay
        their lease, mortgage or equipment payments - especially if sales don't increase, or increase fast enough. Definitely not for every client.

        Dan
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        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
          Originally Posted by bizgrower View Post

          That's what I was guessing. Of course, you would have to clearly set it up that way with the financier.

          Could be good leverage for some businesses. Others, the 20% might hurt their ability to pay
          their lease, mortgage or equipment payments - especially if sales don't increase, or increase fast enough. Definitely not for every client.

          Dan
          Dan; It takes a different mindset. To be honest, I don't enjoy talking to business owners that are struggling. But that doesn't mean there is anything wrong with it.

          It isn't a matter of ethics. I just would rather talk to the far more successful..but far more rare...business owner.

          As far as anyone not being interested in this process, I'd certainly like to know more. At least, I'd be able to pass on it after a thorough investigation.

          And there is a place for it. The same as a place for financing in any retail store. Some sales are just easier with financing.

          And many (maybe most) sole proprietorship owners have marginal or bad credit. This would solve the 'I don't have a credit card with that high a limit" problem.
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          • Profile picture of the author TheBigBee
            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post


            And there is a place for it. The same as a place for financing in any retail store. Some sales are just easier with financing.

            And many (maybe most) sole proprietorship owners have marginal or bad credit. This would solve the 'I don't have a credit card with that high a limit" problem.
            That sums it up. There is a market. Period. There's money to be made in getting a finance company to pay you for services rendered to a business owner without a large credit card, or check book.
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          • Profile picture of the author socialentry
            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

            Dan; It takes a different mindset. To be honest, I don't enjoy talking to business owners that are struggling. But that doesn't mean there is anything wrong with it.

            It isn't a matter of ethics. I just would rather talk to the far more successful..but far more rare...business owner.

            And many (maybe most) sole proprietorship owners have marginal or bad credit. This would solve the 'I don't have a credit card with that high a limit" problem.
            Originally Posted by Ron Lafuddy

            I don't like dealing with businesses that are cash poor or broke. I find that there's a certain mentality that goes with that condition, that I just can't work with.
            Hi , could you please expand on this?

            I have trouble understanding the mindset of these people.

            I had to take a temp job phoning people to offer them merchant cash advance, I have tons of trouble talking to these kind of folks. It's almost as if even if they needed the money, they are too proud to admit it.
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            • Profile picture of the author TheBigBee
              Originally Posted by socialentry View Post

              Hi , could you please expand on this?

              I have trouble understanding the mindset of these people.

              I had to take a temp job phoning people to offer them merchant cash advance, I have tons of trouble talking to these kind of folks. It's almost as if even if they needed the money, they are too proud to admit it.
              You want them calling you. If you are cold calling MCA - that model is a quick way to the poor house. If you're gonna do it, go it alone and hammer away at direct mail to UCCs
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  • Profile picture of the author trader909
    depends hat you re selling. Rich people an't interested in crap generally. Try and sell $1m+ corporate bond to "average Joe".

    "Door to door"....and you were selling what exactly?

    Average Joe doesn't have millions to invest......and that isn't "hawked door to door"

    The average broke Joe, is willing to part with his future money more easily than a rich guy. It's way easier to get money out of the average broke Joe. The problem with broke Joe, is that he's broke. So you're taking the only thing he has - his future sales. Then you're selling his future sales to someone else for cash right now.
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    • Profile picture of the author TheBigBee
      Originally Posted by trader909 View Post

      depends hat you re selling. Rich people an't interested in crap generally. Try and sell $1m+ corporate bond to "average Joe".

      "Door to door"....and you were selling what exactly?

      Average Joe doesn't have millions to invest......and that isn't "hawked door to door"
      I was a kid selling books.
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  • Profile picture of the author mjbmedia
    Big Bee you asked if this is something people would be interested in, most are saying an emphatic no, so why are you still trying to get them to say yes?
    If you don't like the answer you might receive, don't ask the question
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    • Profile picture of the author TheBigBee
      Originally Posted by mjbmedia View Post

      Big Bee you asked if this is something people would be interested in, most are saying an emphatic no, so why are you still trying to get them to say yes?
      If you don't like the answer you might receive, don't ask the question
      mjbmedia,

      The people who are most interested in my posts PM me. Over the past year the a pattern with me has been this:

      I Post a big idea - and get flamed on the thread. Then get PM's from folks who see the value and who want the help.

      I knew this would be the case before I posted.

      mjbmedia, I am not trying to get anyone to say yes to being paid by a finance company for services rendered to broke business owners. I wanted to see if there is a market. My PM's tell me all signs are a go.
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    • Profile picture of the author mojo1
      Originally Posted by mjbmedia View Post

      Big Bee you asked if this is something people would be interested in, most are saying an emphatic no, so why are you still trying to get them to say yes?
      If you don't like the answer you might receive, don't ask the question
      That's just his nature, hence the name TheBigBee. Only speaking from a brief experience. The guy has energy to go back and forth til' infinity or until your eyes glaze over:rolleyes:
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      • Profile picture of the author TheBigBee
        Originally Posted by mojo1 View Post

        That's just his nature, hence the name TheBigBee. Only speaking from a brief experience. The guy has energy to go back and forth til' infinity or until your eyes glaze over:rolleyes:
        When I was a part of technology incubator, I learned to think on levels mortals don't think on. Quite honestly, i was the dumbest kid in the room... full of 20 somethings who were discussing funnel analyses, scaling customer acquisition, achieving critical mass, etc. Everything was a math problem with these guys.

        If you ever get the chance, read the writings of Ben Horowitz. Google "Ben Horowitz" blog. A lot of what he teaches is higher level stuff most applicable to tech companies, but many of that stuff is transferrable. It will certainly elevate your level of thinking.

        Also, do you remember Google 411? Google set up a service where you could dial 411 for information. Here was a company with it's eyes on the future investing in something that would be a thing of the past very soon. Why were they doing that? No one could figure it out... then?

        They didn't do it to help you find the number to the pizza joint, they did it to take, download, and analyze human voices to power all of its voice recognition services today. No Google 411, they'd be way behind the ball in their voice stuff.

        I allude to the Google example because this thread was done "Google style." I didn't post this thread to receive validation in much the same way Google didn't do 411 to help folks find phone numbers. My validation comes each month when I pay my bills and put money away for my family's future.

        When I post threads about my "big" ideas, I am always up to something else that is not the obvious.

        Here's the bottom line. Zero percent of Warriors can use this product and I'll still make several metric fecal tons of money because there are tons of companies - established companies selling $10,000 + marketing packages who hit the "I don't have the money" wall every day. Many of these companies buy PPC, so it would behoove them to not turn their trash into cash.

        I made my first sale to a local business owners after 12 months here... All other sales have been larger B2B sales.

        I came here flat broke and went for the gusto... I didn't want to sell $500 sites, I wanted to sell five figure monthly consulting deals, I did that. I wanted to charge and get paid $1,000 per hour for my time. I DID THAT. PM me, because the proof to this claim is very public. I used Clarity.fm - 2 more sales at $1,000 per hour, they will make me a "featured expert" to get residual $1,000 calls.

        Sir, the knowledge I posses regardless of this thread can make you a boat load of money. PM me so we can trade value!
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        • Profile picture of the author mojo1
          Originally Posted by TheBigBee View Post


          When I post threads about my "big" ideas, I am always up to something else that is not the obvious. I have accomplished my goal with this thread, and if you figure out what the goal was, I'll give you a free copy!!
          E x a s p e r a t i o n S t r a t e g i e s
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          • Profile picture of the author Marty S
            [DELETED]
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            • Profile picture of the author TheBigBee
              Originally Posted by Marty S View Post

              “If I weren’t too proud, I’d boast of my exaggerated opinion of myself.”
              ― Bauvard
              Bill Gates - Noted narcissist and billionaire.
              Mark Zuckerberg - D-bag narcissist and billionaire.
              Vince McMahon (WWE) - Complete narcissist and mega millionaire.

              Read "Business Brilliant." Millionaires tend to become millionaires because they think highly of themselves. No meek, demure, overly humble person goes on to be super successful. They become teachers and accountants.

              Most people who set out to build big businesses fail. That's a fact. But the ones that succeed on a massive level are run by overly confident, cocky, entreps.

              Über is an example. Travis thinks his poop smells like roses, but he is absolutely crushing it in every major market on the globe - in less than 4 years. To say, "I am going to complete disrupt the way people access transportation" takes a lot of gumption and a high opinion of one's self.
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              • Profile picture of the author mojo1
                Originally Posted by TheBigBee View Post

                Bill Gates - Noted narcissist and billionaire.
                Mark Zuckerberg - D-bag narcissist and billionaire.
                Vince McMahon (WWE) - Complete narcissist and mega millionaire.

                Read "Business Brilliant." Millionaires tend to become millionaires because they think highly of themselves. No meek, demure, overly humble person goes on to be super successful. They become teachers and accountants.

                Most people who set out to build big businesses fail. That's a fact. But the ones that succeed on a massive level are run by overly confident, cocky, entreps.

                Über is an example. Travis thinks his poop smells like roses, but he is absolutely crushing it in every major market on the globe - in less than 4 years. To say, "I am going to complete disrupt the way people access transportation" takes a lot of gumption and a high opinion of one's self.
                Please add Kanye West to that ar um Narcissist millionaire's list. The stuff he's saying of late definitely qualifies him
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  • Profile picture of the author Aaron Doud
    Originally Posted by TheBigBee View Post

    You walk into a business, and offer to set them up with some direct mail marketing using EDDM. You add on SMS, plus daily deals so they get cash instantly + opt ins. You sit down and see that in order to get a mailer out it's going to cost about .30 cents a card to you - total. You mark that up to $1 per card because you justify it this way:
    1. 10,000 people will receive cards; "win free pizza for life."
    2. 1,000 to 1,500 will opt-in (this projection is based on some research done on Google.
    3. One person will get a free pizza pie each month for "life."
    4. 999 to 1,499 people will get a consolation offer; "You didn't win the grand prize, but purchase this coupon for 50% off."
    5. 99 to 149 people are going to buy (based on Groupon data and other sources.
    6. The average price of a Groupon is $25, so the busines owner just generated $2,500, and if he does it once per month (one text blast deal), he'll bring in another $30k per year.
    Claude and others have discussed the financing side to kingdom come. And while that is not for me I see how with the right approach it would work.

    What I want to talk to you about is this plan right here. I want you to understand what is wrong with it.

    First we will make some assumptions about this Pizza Place being pitched based on real info from restaurants I know.

    1. Food cost is 33% (fairly standard for a well ran place)
    2. Labor Cost is 12% (little low but makes round number)
    3. Large Pizza is $16 (higher then some lower than other)
    Second we will assume your numbers are right so let's do some math. So 100 people buy this deal each month. 100 * $25 = $2,500 * 12 = $30,000. $30,000 of revenue sounds really good doesn't it? But wait...

    Third we need to figure out how much profit they will make on that $30,000 but remember since that is a 50% off deal we have to remember that we need to figure costs based on $60,000 of normal priced revenue. To keep this simple let's just use Food Cost & Labor Cost. No need to figure in building or utilities even though in the real world we know there are more costs. So we have 33% and 12% which low and behold is 50%. And 50% of $60,000 is $30,000.

    Wait now we have $30,000 in revenue minus $30,000 in costs or $0 profit. That sounds bad but we all remember that their is a lifetime value to a customer so we can pitch that right?

    Fourth what is the lifetime value of a customer. Let's say they all like the pizza and they are all new customers. Let's also say they will buy one pizza per month for the next 24 months on average. So the math would be $16(price of pizza) * 100 (new customers) * 12 (months of running this promotion) * 24 (avg number of months they stay customer) = $460,800 in revenue. But of course profit is half of that. So $230,400 is a pretty good number.



    Fifth we have to figure up the cost of the prize. Let's assume that prices will keep up with inflation so we can use today's dollars. The average lifespan in the US is 78 years and for easy math let's say the average winner is 38 years old so they get 40 years worth of pizzas. We know each pizza costs $8 (50% of $16) so let's do the math. $8 * 12(winners) * 40 (years) * 12 (per year) = $46,080.

    Looks like we have a nice profit from this of $230,400 - $46,080 = $184,320. Which minus your $10,000 fee is very good still at $174,320. But of course that is assuming that assumes many things.

    1. Every single person who signs up is unique. So you will need to send this to 120,000 unique people.*
    2. You have to convert at the percentages you used and get 1,200 customers to this business.
    3. None of those 1,200 customers can be current customers (EDDM will not let you scrub out names).
    4. Based on the pizza market they have to be close enough to the pizza place to convert into monthly customers for 24 months.
    I think you see the point but if not...

    • Do you truly believe that you can find a market with 120k homes within the market footprint of a pizza place? (There is a reason that pizza chains build stores every few miles. Get too far outside of that and you lose the delivery circle.)
    • Do you truly believe that only new customers will buy this offer? (I suspect many will be current customers looking for a deal actually)
    • Do you believe that these new customers will actually turn into multi-visit customers? (Remember they were already within the footprint of the place and yet were not customers already. And we know from Groupon horror stories that many simply buy the deal and never return.)
    *At $.30 per postcard that is $36,000 BTW so $10,000 does not cover you unless you meant $10,000 each month for 12 months in which case the profit is much lower for the business. $184,320 - $120,000 = 64,320 which IMO is not worth the hassle of 12 lifetime pizza winners.

    Now given all of that. Do you truly believe the pizza place will show a profit? And do you truly believe you can explain the profit?

    Based on this math and all of this happening 100% according to plan they are at best seeing a 1.536 ROI multiple ($184,320 profit/$120,000 cost) which means for every $1 they spend they will see a profit of $1.53 or $0.53 in profit after the cost of marketing is removed. Of course they could very likely see no profit at all since as I pointed out your numbers assume a lot.

    You know I love your go getter attitude but I really want you to pounder this. I know I created a wall of text to read but the purpose was to show that a wall of text (or in your case presentation) would be needed to sell them on this.

    I could have simply said this.... "This plan sounds overly optimistic and overly complicated. Are you sure you can sell people on it?" But it would not have accomplished it as well as this visual.
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    • Profile picture of the author TheBigBee
      Originally Posted by Aaron Doud View Post

      Claude and others have discussed the financing side to kingdom come. And while that is not for me I see how with the right approach it would work.

      What I want to talk to you about is this plan right here. I want you to understand what is wrong with it.

      First we will make some assumptions about this Pizza Place being pitched based on real info from restaurants I know.

      1. Food cost is 33% (fairly standard for a well ran place)
      2. Labor Cost is 12% (little low but makes round number)
      3. Large Pizza is $16 (higher then some lower than other)
      Second we will assume your numbers are right so let's do some math. So 100 people buy this deal each month. 100 * $25 = $2,500 * 12 = $30,000. $30,000 of revenue sounds really good doesn't it? But wait...

      Third we need to figure out how much profit they will make on that $30,000 but remember since that is a 50% off deal we have to remember that we need to figure costs based on $60,000 of normal priced revenue. To keep this simple let's just use Food Cost & Labor Cost. No need to figure in building or utilities even though in the real world we know there are more costs. So we have 33% and 12% which low and behold is 50%. And 50% of $60,000 is $30,000.

      Wait now we have $30,000 in revenue minus $30,000 in costs or $0 profit. That sounds bad but we all remember that their is a lifetime value to a customer so we can pitch that right?

      Fourth what is the lifetime value of a customer. Let's say they all like the pizza and they are all new customers. Let's also say they will buy one pizza per month for the next 24 months on average. So the math would be $16(price of pizza) * 100 (new customers) * 12 (months of running this promotion) * 24 (avg number of months they stay customer) = $460,800 in revenue. But of course profit is half of that. So $230,400 is a pretty good number.



      Fifth we have to figure up the cost of the prize. Let's assume that prices will keep up with inflation so we can use today's dollars. The average lifespan in the US is 78 years and for easy math let's say the average winner is 38 years old so they get 40 years worth of pizzas. We know each pizza costs $8 (50% of $16) so let's do the math. $8 * 12(winners) * 40 (years) * 12 (per year) = $46,080.

      Looks like we have a nice profit from this of $230,400 - $46,080 = $184,320. Which minus your $10,000 fee is very good still at $174,320. But of course that is assuming that assumes many things.

      1. Every single person who signs up is unique. So you will need to send this to 120,000 unique people.*
      2. You have to convert at the percentages you used and get 1,200 customers to this business.
      3. None of those 1,200 customers can be current customers (EDDM will not let you scrub out names).
      4. Based on the pizza market they have to be close enough to the pizza place to convert into monthly customers for 24 months.
      I think you see the point but if not...

      • Do you truly believe that you can find a market with 120k homes within the market footprint of a pizza place? (There is a reason that pizza chains build stores every few miles. Get too far outside of that and you lose the delivery circle.)
      • Do you truly believe that only new customers will buy this offer? (I suspect many will be current customers looking for a deal actually)
      • Do you believe that these new customers will actually turn into multi-visit customers? (Remember they were already within the footprint of the place and yet were not customers already. And we know from Groupon horror stories that many simply buy the deal and never return.)
      *At $.30 per postcard that is $36,000 BTW so $10,000 does not cover you unless you meant $10,000 each month for 12 months in which case the profit is much lower for the business. $184,320 - $120,000 = 64,320 which IMO is not worth the hassle of 12 lifetime pizza winners.

      Now given all of that. Do you truly believe the pizza place will show a profit? And do you truly believe you can explain the profit?

      Based on this math and all of this happening 100% according to plan they are at best seeing a 1.536 ROI multiple ($184,320 profit/$120,000 cost) which means for every $1 they spend they will see a profit of $1.53 or $0.53 in profit after the cost of marketing is removed. Of course they could very likely see no profit at all since as I pointed out your numbers assume a lot.

      You know I love your go getter attitude but I really want you to pounder this. I know I created a wall of text to read but the purpose was to show that a wall of text (or in your case presentation) would be needed to sell them on this.

      I could have simply said this.... "This plan sounds overly optimistic and overly complicated. Are you sure you can sell people on it?" But it would not have accomplished it as well as this visual.


      Aaron,

      You should know by now I don't post just to post!

      My first sale was made to a car service. Done deal. Profits booked.

      I completely screwed up on this post, I should have made it short and sweet; "Are you Warriors interested in closing more sales by using other peoples money?" More specifically, "Are you folks interested in having finance companies pay you for whatever services you render to broke business owners?" The BEST products are created completely on accident. This is truly groundbreaking and was done completely on accident because I was trying to find product market fit.

      Frankly speaking, and personally speaking, this is about capitalizing on a market of less than savvy business owners. Any biz owner can do any of the stuff I outlined themselves. My car service could have, but instead they paid me $10k, of which I received 2/3.

      So again, lets not even discuss my business model at all, because this is a business I run, not a WSO I am planning. I started, launched, and marketed it without once considering making it as WSO. I did it because I wanted a way to get more than $5k per sale. I'm close.

      To make it so that ANY WARRIOR can sell ANYTHING on credit to any cash advance worthy busienss owner is going ot require a lot of work as back end processes have to be re-engineered and invested in. So, judging by Claudes reaction and the PM's for reveiw copies I've gotten, all signals point to go.

      Ultimately, this is NOT a product that will be made for Warriors, rather a product that MAY be used by Warriors. For instance, there are guys selling tablets to restaurants who may be interested. Equipment leasing companies may be interested seeing as how this reduces their cost of customer maintenance, and so on.
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  • Profile picture of the author BillyParadise
    I think I saw something similar to this (the financing side anyway) on the Shark Tank:

    Credit Card Processing and Factoring - Shark Tank Blog
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  • Profile picture of the author Aaron Doud
    I think the financing side is great. Though I will admit I am a bit lost on how it all will work. But it's not something I personally would want to do. That said I think the financing side and how that works sounds solid.

    I wanted to give feedback only on the part that didn't seem solid which was that section I commented on. Like you I have a habit of being a bit long winded. And being long winded and overly complicating the pitch has hurt me in selling in the past.

    Claude seemed to hit on this as well. The point being that you need to keep it simply and if the financing is key lead with it. The pizza example you gave was IMO too complicated. It also hit on their fear of costs (prize & 50% off deal) which is the exact opposite of what you are promoting with no money up front financing.
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    • Profile picture of the author TheBigBee
      Originally Posted by Aaron Doud View Post

      I think the financing side is great. Though I will admit I am a bit lost on how it all will work. But it's not something I personally would want to do. That said I think the financing side and how that works sounds solid.

      I wanted to give feedback only on the part that didn't seem solid which was that section I commented on. Like you I have a habit of being a bit long winded. And being long winded and overly complicating the pitch has hurt me in selling in the past.

      Claude seemed to hit on this as well. The point being that you need to keep it simply and if the financing is key lead with it. The pizza example you gave was IMO too complicated. It also hit on their fear of costs (prize & 50% off deal) which is the exact opposite of what you are promoting with no money up front financing.
      Aaron,

      Solid points. Life works in strange ways man. Suffice it to say, I'll get more value (revenue) from helping folks sell anything they want, direct mail, SEO, websites, etc. through zero percent interest financing.

      Quite honestly - no reason to pursue my other business. Kind of like Groupon, they started out with a socio / government mission to organize people to participate in the way laws were written - first in the city of Chicago. It sounded awesome to them, but no one wanted to participate. Before going broke, they tried an experiment, and thats how they went from civic action to daily deals.

      When you are constantly moving and tinkering, you ultimately find product market fit!
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      • Profile picture of the author umc
        I personally think that the idea, as a business model, is fantastic. I know that years ago when doing marketing for a home improvement company there was lots of money to be made, not in the wealthy end of town where they could pay cash for work, but in the lower income areas where people had dreams of better things and just needed a payment to match. Wealthy people ask "how much", and poor people ask "how much a month".

        However, I personally also would have a hard time taking advantage of the stupidity of small business owners, ala Groupon. I know that there's money to be made, I just don't think I could do it. I grew up as that poor, stupid person that asked "how much a month", and as a small business owner I wasn't very good with money either. Then I learned how foolish I was, how I had that poor man's mentality that I grew up around, and I worked my tail off to get out of debt. To put business owners in debt to me just wouldn't feel right. I'm not here to be the ethics police, everyone has their own point of view, I just couldn't do it. I did years ago as a telemarketer because I didn't know what I know now. I'm sure that lots of the people that bought the home improvements that we pushed to them eventually couldn't make the payments and ruined that future. Future income and sales sounds good, but we all know that if these business owners aren't very savvy, the likelihood that they make it isn't very good either, and putting them in debt may very well just expedite the process.

        Best of luck with it though. I am a huge fan of The Big Bee's posts. Love the way you think outside the box. Different strokes for different folks on the model. I'm sure you'll do well with it.
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  • Profile picture of the author NewParadigm
    You could work with the biz owner's CC merchant for a merchant cash advance, paid back by merchant taking a direct % cut of future CC sales. That way you'd get paid in advance. or, poss work out agreement where you front the cost, and get paid your 10k as % of CC sales from processor. Not sure if they do that though.
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    • Profile picture of the author TheBigBee
      Originally Posted by NewParadigm View Post

      You could work with the biz owner's CC merchant for a merchant cash advance, paid back by merchant taking a direct % cut of future CC sales. That way you'd get paid in advance. or, poss work out agreement where you front the cost, and get paid your 10k as % of CC sales from processor. Not sure if they do that though.
      I tried that first. Sold the marketing but couldn't sell the merchant cash advance interest rate on top of a $10k package. I even tried to partner with companies when I was a merchant cash advance broker to have them sell the 35% interest to their clients. No one felt comfortable offering their client financing at 35% interest. It has to be zero interest financing for it to be marketable.

      The second thing you mention is called split batching. I posted about it in March I think and got flamed. The problem with that is - you'd have to front the cost. AND youd have to learn to underwrite merchant cash advance deals because your money will be at risk. AND you'd have to find a processor with the right relationships with Visa and Master as they prohibit 99% of MSPs from running finance programs on their logos.

      Where I am going with this is no interest rate charged to biz owner and no need for the marketer to acquire any new exotic skills.
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  • Profile picture of the author Raymond Duke
    I would sell just the EDDM so they can see how well it works. Offer the upsell (SMS) after trust is built.
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  • Profile picture of the author Marta K
    I think tne problem is not with financing bit of the post- is your numbers used to explain services offered. The deal doesn't make any profit for the owner, just makes them busy. But, as you said, dumb and broke....buy with money they don't have and if they go bankrupt, hey, you keep the money.
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