This section of the Forums could be better

64 replies
focused if we'd have a sticky thread with a better description of what topics are actually "NOT" on topic for this forum.

My perception of what this section of the forums isn't about are some of the following:

How to make money with pallet reclamation
How to make money with refrigerator magnets
How to make money with electric drills
How to make money selling bracelets
How to make money selling novelty items to small businesses.
How to sell BALLOONS! WTF seriously?

I understand that there are several posts like this on the forums here and there's even been some discussion and feedback on those threads however, they just aren't germane to the actual topic of discussions on this section of the forums.

This isn't a business opportunity forum guys. This is about digital/online marketing for local small businesses.

I'd like to hear any ones thoughts on this good or bad so please lets hear the replies!
#forums #section
  • Profile picture of the author mjbmedia
    Also threads titled the likes of (and this is made up)

    $479 from one ad placement/phone call/letter etc etc when they have done literally one ad placement, its a one off result who knows if it will be repeated , come back 6 months down the line when its all still working , having been tweaked of course, then tell us about your successes
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  • Profile picture of the author umc
    Although I do agree with you to a large degree, nobody will read the sticky, and you will have more of the same unless moderated heavily.

    I don't see a problem with a lot of the offline ideas as far as how to advertise local businesses with magnets and such. That always made sense to me.

    How to make money with a drill and other such business opportunities don't make sense to me as part of this section of the forum, but people like those threads (including myself) because we're all business junkies to whatever degree. Maybe create a section for those types of things, and having that would help separate them.

    Just my 2 pennies.
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  • Profile picture of the author Aaron Doud
    I don't see an issue with threads of that nature in and of themselves. While the ideas themselves are very basic they can at times inspire thoughts of taking them further.

    The issue though is when there are a flood of them from certain users who are clearly using them for self promotion.

    The best solution to that is simply to ignore those thread and post and interact with the better ones.

    In my mind Offline Marketing encompasses a few ideas.
    1. Digital Marketing for Offline Businesses (many would say this is and should be the main focus)
    2. Digital Marketing Consulting; How to (similar to the first but a separate topic IMO)
    3. Offline Marketing for Online Businesses (and even Offline Businesses)
    4. Marketing Consulting (in general; mainly since there is no board for this) (this is where many of the threads you mention would come in)
    5. Selling (As related to Marketing Consulting mainly)
    6. General Business Advice (As related to Marketing Consulting mainly)
    7. Misc Sub-Topics that tie back into those 6 (example: Kindle Book Writing for Consultants)
    8. Offline Money Making Ideas/Businesses (seem to default here since there is no other place even when they don't related to Consulting or Marketing directly)
    I have in the past ask for a separate board for Offline Selling and my PM was ignored by the admin which IMO means that they feel those topics are best left here. Some of us may disagree with that and feel these topics should be more divided but that is not our place to decide.

    Now if one or more individuals are abusing this forum and posting threads that barely remain on the topic perhaps we as the community need to speak with the moderators. Maybe we even need a moderator assigned specifically to this community (that is how we handle it on IGN).

    But I can't say we should outright ban those type of threads as some (not all) do have value.

    Edit: Another problem that having a dedicated moderator could fix is the fact that random old topics (including many on the topics you mentioned) getting randomly bumped up (without anything of value being added).
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    • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
      Aaron, we as members are the moderators.

      Originally Posted by Aaron Doud View Post

      I don't see an issue with threads of that nature in and of themselves. While the ideas themselves are very basic they can at times inspire thoughts of taking them further.

      The issue though is when there are a flood of them from certain users who are clearly using them for self promotion.

      The best solution to that is simply to ignore those thread and post and interact with the better ones.

      In my mind Offline Marketing encompasses a few ideas.
      1. Digital Marketing for Offline Businesses (many would say this is and should be the main focus)
      2. Digital Marketing Consulting; How to (similar to the first but a separate topic IMO)
      3. Offline Marketing for Online Businesses (and even Offline Businesses)
      4. Marketing Consulting (in general; mainly since there is no board for this) (this is where many of the threads you mention would come in)
      5. Selling (As related to Marketing Consulting mainly)
      6. General Business Advice (As related to Marketing Consulting mainly)
      7. Misc Sub-Topics that tie back into those 6 (example: Kindle Book Writing for Consultants)
      8. Offline Money Making Ideas/Businesses (seem to default here since there is no other place even when they don't related to Consulting or Marketing directly)
      I have in the past ask for a separate board for Offline Selling and my PM was ignored by the admin which IMO means that they feel those topics are best left here. Some of us may disagree with that and feel these topics should be more divided but that is not our place to decide.

      Now if one or more individuals are abusing this forum and posting threads that barely remain on the topic perhaps we as the community need to speak with the moderators. Maybe we even need a moderator assigned specifically to this community (that is how we handle it on IGN).

      But I can't say we should outright ban those type of threads as some (not all) do have value.

      Edit: Another problem that having a dedicated moderator could fix is the fact that random old topics (including many on the topics you mentioned) getting randomly bumped up (without anything of value being added).
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      • Profile picture of the author Aaron Doud
        Originally Posted by Rus Sells View Post

        Aaron, we as members are the moderators.
        I assume you mean using the report button.

        I have not been a mod here but have been a mod for over ten years at IGN. And I will tell you that having a community based mod is always more effective than using report buttons (and similar). It does seem that mods here act more like what I would call a manager (using the IGN board term) or even an administrator vs. a pure moderator which may be an issue with not wanting to create too many.

        But I would still say we would have less issues if we had an Offline Board Community Member who was a moderator. Paul occasionally posts here but is not really part of this specific community. He (and others who I do not do) do a fine job and my belief is in no way faulting them. My believe is based on my experience dealing with one of the largest message board systems on the internet and seeing what works and what does not.
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  • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
    Originally Posted by Rus Sells View Post

    How to sell BALLOONS! WTF seriously?
    That one had me about rolling on the floor.

    Were your ears burning yesterday? My partner and I were talking about you.
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    • Profile picture of the author TheBigBee
      Some of the stuff can be whimsical, but if it inspires thought / curiosity / exploration in folks, then perhaps it's implied value is greater than the perceived value.
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    • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
      My ears are contently burning bro!

      Yes there was a thread about balloons too.

      Originally Posted by kenmichaels View Post

      That one had me about rolling on the floor.

      Were your ears burning yesterday? My partner and I were talking about you.
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  • Profile picture of the author Huskerdarren
    I agree with Russ. If Don and Martin want to start a forum, they should. I don't see most of those threads as a good fit with the overall tone of offline.
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    • Profile picture of the author ronr
      I don't mind those types of posts since their aren't that many of them. If there were a lot more then it would be more of an issue for me.

      Ron
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  • Profile picture of the author Brandon Tanner
    Originally Posted by Rus Sells View Post

    This is about digital/online marketing for local small businesses.
    Why would you assume that it's limited to only that? The tagline for this section of the forum is "Offline Marketing strategies, techniques and ideas". That sounds much broader than your description. Unless the powers that be state otherwise, I will have to assume that "Offline Marketing" means anything related to offline marketing.

    That said... I don't mind seeing threads that discuss "biz opp" ideas, so long as they're realistic... because the occasional gold nugget can be found in a small percentage of those threads, and spark a good idea.

    The problem is... the vast majority of the "biz opp" threads are over-hyped nonsense and nowhere near realistic (ie 80% conversion rate claims via cold email for a high-priced product/service that would provide zero or very little value to any sane business owner).

    Seasoned marketers will recognize the BS claims right away, but a lot of newbs will fall for it, sadly, and spend their time/effort/money figuring out the hard way that they're not going to get rich overnight by firing off a handful of cold emails and clicking a few buttons. So in that regard, those types of threads can most certainly cause a lot of damage. But a small percentage of those threads can provide at least some value, so long as you know how to filter out the BS.

    On a related note... I do think that it would be a good idea to have stickies in each section that cover the most common topics, FAQ's, etc. If the mods want to set any specific rules for this section though, I'm sure they will.

    - My 2 cents.
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    • Profile picture of the author akazo
      Originally Posted by Brandon Tanner View Post

      I don't mind seeing threads that discuss "biz opp" ideas, so long as they're realistic... because the occasional gold nugget can be found in a small percentage of those threads, and spark a good idea.

      The problem is... the vast majority of the "biz opp" threads are over-hyped nonsense
      This! I don't mind these threads until the SAME PERSON tells multiple tales of how he made $20K a week and doesn't know why he ever stopped doing it...
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  • Profile picture of the author RichBeck
    Rus,

    I disagree... totally.

    Why?

    If it is ANYTHING Offline, it should be posted here.....

    You can look at the post title... think... I could care less about selling balloons offline.... Don't click on the post and read it. Skip it.... Pretty simple.

    Where I would have an issue is when people use one post title and the post text is unrelated. That, to me, is a big no-no.

    All The Best,

    Rich Beck BCIP, MCSD, MCIS
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  • Profile picture of the author misterme
    Originally Posted by Rus Sells View Post

    My perception of what this section of the forums isn't about are some of the following:

    How to make money with refrigerator magnets
    That reminds me of how "back in da day"..... before the innerweb... I was walking myself down the street and saw a 'fridgyater put out on the curb for junk pick up later in da week when all of a sudden my "Marketing Mojo" sense kicks in and sez... HEY! DIS HERE STREET GOTS SOME 500, 800... POSSIBLY 7,000 PEOPLES PASSIN' BY... an' so I knocks on de door of "Mr. & Mrs. Householder" right there an' introducez meself an' sez "Hey Mr. Jones... HOW many peoples ya think be seein' dat dere fridgyater door every day? We can fits up to 125 2x3" biz cards right on dere.... AND THEN CALL UP EVERYONE OF THOSE BUSINESSES WHOOZE CARD WE STICK ON DE DOOR... AN' CHARGE EVERYONE $175 and I ain't no "Match Genius"..... BUT.... seems to me that comes out to...... at least 125 times $175.... That's $21,875 smackeroonies... in one week! HOLY CAMOLY and whaddya know? One guy starts outbiddin' de other for space and dis goes backn' forth, up, up, and AWAY!!!... da next thing you know iz.... ONE BUSINESS CARD TOOK ALL THE SPACE OVER AND THAT'S HOW I INVENTED THE BILLBOARD.
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    • Profile picture of the author Aaron Doud
      Originally Posted by misterme View Post

      That reminds me of how "back in da day"..... before the innerweb... I was walking myself down the street and saw a 'fridgyater put out on the curb for junk pick up later in da week when all of a sudden my "Marketing Mojo" sense kicks in and sez... HEY! DIS HERE STREET GOTS SOME 500, 800... POSSIBLY 7,000 PEOPLES PASSIN' BY... an' so I knocks on de door of "Mr. & Mrs. Householder" right there an' introducez meself an' sez "Hey Mr. Jones... HOW many peoples ya think be seein' dat dere fridgyater door every day? We can fits up to 125 2x3" biz cards right on dere.... AND THEN CALL UP EVERYONE OF THOSE BUSINESSES WHOOZE CARD WE STICK ON DE DOOR... AN' CHARGE EVERYONE $175 and I ain't no "Match Genius"..... BUT.... seems to me that comes out to...... at least 125 times $175.... That's $21,875 smackeroonies... in one week! HOLY CAMOLY and whaddya know? One guy starts outbiddin' de other for space and dis goes backn' forth, up, up, and AWAY!!!... da next thing you know iz.... ONE BUSINESS CARD TOOK ALL THE SPACE OVER AND THAT'S HOW I INVENTED THE BILLBOARD.
      Seriously LMAO over here. Are you revealing who you really are?
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    • Profile picture of the author TheBigBee
      Originally Posted by misterme View Post

      That reminds me of how "back in da day"..... before the innerweb... I was walking myself down the street and saw a 'fridgyater put out on the curb for junk pick up later in da week when all of a sudden my "Marketing Mojo" sense kicks in and sez... HEY! DIS HERE STREET GOTS SOME 500, 800... POSSIBLY 7,000 PEOPLES PASSIN' BY... an' so I knocks on de door of "Mr. & Mrs. Householder" right there an' introducez meself an' sez "Hey Mr. Jones... HOW many peoples ya think be seein' dat dere fridgyater door every day? We can fits up to 125 2x3" biz cards right on dere.... AND THEN CALL UP EVERYONE OF THOSE BUSINESSES WHOOZE CARD WE STICK ON DE DOOR... AN' CHARGE EVERYONE $175 and I ain't no "Match Genius"..... BUT.... seems to me that comes out to...... at least 125 times $175.... That's $21,875 smackeroonies... in one week! HOLY CAMOLY and whaddya know? One guy starts outbiddin' de other for space and dis goes backn' forth, up, up, and AWAY!!!... da next thing you know iz.... ONE BUSINESS CARD TOOK ALL THE SPACE OVER AND THAT'S HOW I INVENTED THE BILLBOARD.
      OMG!!! I have snot Coming out of my nose. You must be a Noo Yawka!!
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      • Profile picture of the author misterme
        Originally Posted by TheBigBee View Post

        You must be a Noo Yawka!!
        It's a parody.

        What I don't like much on the forum, besides hype, are money making ideas which actually only result in making a few hundred bucks. I get that for some people that's a step up, but even for them to spend the same amount of time making $100 as they could put in to make $1,000, it seems to me would be a better use of time and effort.

        We just need the better role models in front of us.
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        "Best book on answering objections I have seen... it's for photographers but it has brilliant techniques you can use in any business." - Claude Whitacre. When They Say That, You Say This (Amazon Kindle)
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        • Profile picture of the author TheBigBee
          Originally Posted by misterme View Post

          It's a parody.

          What I don't like much on the forum, besides hype, are money making ideas which actually only result in making a few hundred bucks. I get that for some people that's a step up, but even for them to spend the same amount of time making $100 as they could put in to make $1,000, it seems to me would be a better use of time and effort.

          We just need the better role models in front of us.
          I know it was a parody based on the midas man. Good stuff nonetheless!
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    • Profile picture of the author NewParadigm
      Originally Posted by misterme View Post

      That reminds me of how "back in da day"..... before the innerweb... I was walking myself down the street and saw a 'fridgyater put out on the curb for junk pick up later in da week when all of a sudden my "Marketing Mojo" sense kicks in and sez... HEY! DIS HERE STREET GOTS SOME 500, 800... POSSIBLY 7,000 PEOPLES PASSIN' BY... an' so I knocks on de door of "Mr. & Mrs. Householder" right there an' introducez meself an' sez "Hey Mr. Jones... HOW many peoples ya think be seein' dat dere fridgyater door every day? We can fits up to 125 2x3" biz cards right on dere.... AND THEN CALL UP EVERYONE OF THOSE BUSINESSES WHOOZE CARD WE STICK ON DE DOOR... AN' CHARGE EVERYONE $175 and I ain't no "Match Genius"..... BUT.... seems to me that comes out to...... at least 125 times $175.... That's $21,875 smackeroonies... in one week! HOLY CAMOLY and whaddya know? One guy starts outbiddin' de other for space and dis goes backn' forth, up, up, and AWAY!!!... da next thing you know iz.... ONE BUSINESS CARD TOOK ALL THE SPACE OVER AND THAT'S HOW I INVENTED THE BILLBOARD.

      You must be Tommy Fla-nagan! yeahhhhhhhh, thhhhhhhat's the ticket!!!

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  • Profile picture of the author socialentry
    I don't want to do stuff like pallet placement, but I think it is better to have freedom of speech and have people cherry pick what they read.

    But yeah, having less would probably be better but largely, I just don't click on those kinds of thread.
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  • Profile picture of the author NewParadigm
    My big beef with that stuff is BS income claims with no backup. Making crap ideas up and making income claims with no proof. Especially from years/decades ago.

    And spamming the same ideas in multiple threads/posts.
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  • Profile picture of the author Marvin Johnston
    I disagree with the OP for a number of reasons.

    1) Freedom of choice in what we *choose* to read seems like a good concept... censorship is not.
    2) Like any idea, other ideas will sprout up that may be more relevant to the reader.
    3) I enjoy reading ideas where others have had success.

    [Edit] Russ, you offer so much helpful advice and comments here... are you having a bad day?

    Marvin
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    • Profile picture of the author NewParadigm
      Originally Posted by Marvin Johnston View Post

      I disagree with the OP for a number of reasons.

      1) Freedom of choice in what we *choose* to read seems like a good concept... censorship is not.
      2) Like any idea, other ideas will sprout up that may be more relevant to the reader.
      3) I enjoy reading ideas where others have had success.

      [Edit] Russ, you offer so much helpful advice and comments here... are you having a bad day?

      Marvin
      This is hardly about censorship. It's about relevant REAL, TIMELY information w/out BOGUS unsubstantiated income claims.

      It's about RESPECT for the forum in providing truthful accurate information and experiences.
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      • Profile picture of the author Marvin Johnston
        Originally Posted by NewParadigm View Post

        This is hardly about censorship. It's about relevant REAL, TIMELY information w/out BOGUS unsubstantiated income claims.

        It's about RESPECT for the forum in providing truthful accurate information and experiences.
        The problem with your statement is it provides no useful information. If you are calling some people liars, you have provided no proof for that statement.

        And that is strange considering you are expecting someone else to provide proof for their statements.

        So my question is why should anyone have to provide proof of what they are saying? Or does this only apply to certain people?

        This just doesn't seem like a very worthwhile wormhole to fall into.

        Marvin
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      • Profile picture of the author Mark Singletary
        Originally Posted by NewParadigm View Post

        unsubstantiated income claims
        No offense but EVERY income claim on this entire forum is unsubstantiated - even those by people we like. No one has ever provided any real proof of anything.

        Mark
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  • Profile picture of the author TeamBringIt
    Anything that, relates to offline or selling to offline businesses...is fair game. I simply ignore "bogus" money claims and simply don't bother reading posts...by people that I don't care, to read about
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  • Profile picture of the author Mark Singletary
    Can I ask a question without getting shot and thrown out of town???

    Where does THIS thread rank in terms of how to do any of the things this forum is supposed to be about as mentioned in the opening post?

    It doesn't. It doesn't belong here IF this forum is ONLY about the things listed. By putting it here you are violating the forum rules, going off topic (there is a forum for that you know), and wasting our time that would be better spent discussing selling online marketing to offline businesses.

    So why is it okay for YOU to write what YOU want to but others can't?

    NOTE: THIS IS NOT AN ATTACK. I LIKE THE THINGS YOU POST. I FOLLOW YOUR POSTS. I APPRECIATE YOUR CONTRIBUTION. But I think this one is a little unfair as well as hypocritical if you follow the very things you are ranting about.

    Mark
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  • Profile picture of the author TheCG
    ...because it is just too hard to not click on threads that don't interest you. hahaha
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  • Profile picture of the author SirThomas
    Originally Posted by Rus Sells View Post

    This isn't a business opportunity forum guys. This is about digital/online marketing for local small businesses.
    Do they actually have a description of what this section should be about or we just assume it?

    It's called "Offline Marketing Discussions". It doesn't say "Online strategies for offline businesses" or "Offering online marketing to offline businesses"... It could be "offline strategies for online businesses" and it would still fit the name of this section ... lol
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  • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
    This comment isn't directed at anyone in particular, so for what it's worth...

    I've seen several threads where people are picking apart the original post or the person who posted it -- as if that's their purpose for reading the thread.

    In the very same posts people are bent on tearing apart, or "exposing" if you prefer, I've picked up some good ideas. That doesn't mean I believe the claims or the person making them, it just means I'm looking for what I can use rather than ... something else.

    There's some truth to the old adage that we tend to find what we look for. If we look for things to disagree with we'll find them; and if we look for what we can use, we'll find that too.
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    • Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

      This comment isn't directed at anyone in particular, so for what it's worth...

      I've seen several threads where people are picking apart the original post or the person who posted it -- as if that's their purpose for reading the thread.

      In the very same posts people are bent on tearing apart, or "exposing" if you prefer, I've picked up some good ideas. That doesn't mean I believe the claims or the person making them, it just means I'm looking for what I can use rather than ... something else.

      There's some truth to the old adage that we tend to find what we look for. If we look for things to disagree with we'll find them; and if we look for what we can use, we'll find that too.



      Mega Dittos
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  • Profile picture of the author rafsco
    This is one of the most populated forums, I guess warriors like it. I do.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
    Lots of great replies from every one!

    Some people aren't opposed to the business opportunity posts feeling that they fall under the topic of this thread but I still disagree and here's my perspective on why I'm not swayed by any points made.

    If you look at what this forum is, what's discussed, what the spirit and purpose of the forum is, it's about making money through various methods using the the internet, "Making money online".

    This section of the forums was born due to the fact that a sub niche of the MMO is taking these methods principles and techniques and applying them to local store front type brick and mortar businesses.

    So if we keep in mind the spirit of this forum then it's reasonable to say that discussions about business opportunities not related to the spirit of the forum in regards to making money aren't on topic or germane to the forums vision.

    They only section of the forums where business opportunities are welcomed is the WSO section, so why are posts in this section of the forums getting a pass. Should a member want to tell the world about Electric Drill Profits then the place for that is the WSO section, by allowing these types of posts on other sections of the forums it's essentially stealing advertising space from the forum owner. That's my perspective.

    A post about how to make money with Balloons, electric drills, etc. etc. etc., and business opportunities in general aren't what this section of the forum is about or why it was even started.

    This forum has been around for many years, it wouldn't be unreasonable to think that the owner may have already considered having a section for making money selling balloons and electric drills, or how great of a businesses opportunity it is to do pallet reclamation. Oh wait he did consider it, it's called the WSO section where you can pay to advertise any type of businesses opportunity you want as long as it's legal and you abide by certain laws and rules on this forum.

    So that's pretty much my perspective about it and I don't expect every one to agree with me but that's ok!

    Have a great weekend every one!
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    • I agree Russ. Here is my advice.

      I think 'offline' is the totally wrong name for this section and too broad.
      Most of us use it for discussing online marketing after all.


      And I think it's too broad and again just badly named. I think it should be split and renamed.

      1) Local SEO or Local Search Marketing.

      2) Small Business Marketing - where folks can discuss refrigerator magnet marketing, pizza boxes, email marketing or whatever.

      That is how most forums divide it up. Local online marketing and general small business offline marketing ideas.
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      • Profile picture of the author shane_k
        Originally Posted by Marty S View Post

        You can instantly improve the quality of your time spent in this forum by applying the 80/20 rule. That is, 80% of the "nonsense" comes from 20% of the users here - I can name a few right off. Once you identify these dreamers/schemers/self-delusionals, just click the IGNORE feature that the forum offers, and the BS will magically evaporate.
        lol, this is so true.

        Originally Posted by Rus Sells View Post


        by allowing these types of posts on other sections of the forums it's essentially stealing advertising space from the forum owner. That's my perspective.

        I think this could be true if the person who started the thread is the one who keeps bumping the thread over and over again, but if it is other forum members who are the ones who keep bumping the thread then that just shows there is an interest in those ideas.


        Originally Posted by Catalyst eMarketing View Post

        I agree Russ. Here is my advice.

        I think 'offline' is the totally wrong name for this section and too broad.
        Most of us use it for discussing online marketing after all.

        And I think it's too broad and again just badly named. I think it should be split and renamed.

        1) Local SEO or Local Search Marketing.

        There are many good reasons to have the title of this forum be broad.

        One reason is some of us don't do Local SEO or Local Search Marketing, but we do offer services that fit into Offline Marketing.

        2) Small Business Marketing - where folks can discuss refrigerator magnet marketing, pizza boxes, email marketing or whatever.

        I think again this is too narrow.

        There are those of us who don't target Small Business, but instead target Medium to Large Businesses. So naming it Small Business Marketing would leave many warriors out.
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  • I feel it's always good to have warriors, especially those with gravity, speak up about what is going on in the forums and what is the best protocol. I liked the observation.

    LLS
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    • Profile picture of the author savidge4
      My take like anyone cares....

      This is an OFFLINE forum. Take away the internet and what's left?

      We are talking printed goods, face to face sales, phone sales, sales letters, the benefits of business cards in all spectrum of business, how to stock shelves for better turn on product, the power of end caps, how to compete with Walmart, etc...

      The reality is, like myself I use Offline tactics to help my online business' as much as I do the reverse. There is POWER IN PRINTING! and THAT is offline!
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  • Rus,

    Originally Posted by Rus Sells View Post

    This isn't a business opportunity forum guys. This is about digital/online marketing for local small businesses.
    Your comment is puzzling to me. This forum section is not about digital/online marketing for small businesses. Even the title of the forum states it is Offline Marketing strategies, techniques and ideas.

    When I read that I take away that it is offline strategies, techniques and ideas forum, but no mention of digital/online marketing.

    How did you come to this conclusion that we are to draw the same conclusion as you?
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    • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
      Offline is the term "coined" to describe digital marketing and digital services to local brick and mortal businesses.

      Originally Posted by ThePromotionalGuy View Post

      Rus,



      Your comment is puzzling to me. This forum section is not about digital/online marketing for small businesses. Even the title of the forum states it is Offline Marketing strategies, techniques and ideas.

      When I read that I take away that it is offline strategies, techniques and ideas forum, but no mention of digital/online marketing.

      How did you come to this conclusion that we are to draw the same conclusion as you?
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      • Interesting. Thank you.

        Originally Posted by Rus Sells View Post

        Offline is the term "coined" to describe digital marketing and digital services to local brick and mortal businesses.
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      • Profile picture of the author Joe Stewart
        Originally Posted by Rus Sells View Post

        Offline is the term "coined" to describe digital marketing and digital services to local brick and mortal businesses.
        Very true, but some of us sell other products to local (and nationwide) brick and mortar businesses that are completely non-internet related. I happen to fall into that category.

        Some people use mailers to generate leads. Some like to do business in person.

        There are many of us here that use telemarketing as their primary (or only) method of contacting businesses. I happen to fall into this category as well.

        There are some individuals here that are just great sales people. I've "been around the block" for several years now myself, but I'm always interested in learning how others are doing things, what's working well NOW, what kinds of challenges others might be facing, etc.

        It's nice to have somewhere where I can go and "talk shop" with others that are doing stuff similar to what I'm doing. It doesn't have to be "exactly the same". There are some intelligent people here.

        I do understand your point, but the only way I could see to do it would be to separate those that sell online services exclusively from everyone else. The term "offline" is simply too broad otherwise.
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        • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
          I'd think that almost all of what you mentioned would fit nicely in this section of the forums for sure. I see that you mentioned you sell other non internet related stuff to small businesses and that's awesome.

          The issue is that electric drill profits, selling balloons, palette reclamation, magnets, pizza box advertising space, and all that related stuff isn't germane to the topic of this forum and it really doesn't belong here.

          This isn't the how to make money off small business owners forum, this isn't the, here's a business or money making idea forum either, and surely this isn't the, "Psst... make $532.50 Today" forum. Is it?


          Originally Posted by Joe Stewart View Post

          Very true, but some of us sell other products to local (and nationwide) brick and mortar businesses that are completely non-internet related. I happen to fall into that category.

          Some people use mailers to generate leads. Some like to do business in person.

          There are many of us here that use telemarketing as their primary (or only) method of contacting businesses. I happen to fall into this category as well.

          There are some individuals here that are just great sales people. I've "been around the block" for several years now myself, but I'm always interested in learning how others are doing things, what's working well NOW, what kinds of challenges others might be facing, etc.

          It's nice to have somewhere where I can go and "talk shop" with others that are doing stuff similar to what I'm doing. It doesn't have to be "exactly the same". There are some intelligent people here.

          I do understand your point, but the only way I could see to do it would be to separate those that sell online services exclusively from everyone else. The term "offline" is simply too broad otherwise.
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          • Profile picture of the author Joe Stewart
            Originally Posted by Rus Sells View Post

            I'd think that almost all of what you mentioned would fit nicely in this section of the forums for sure. I see that you mentioned you sell other non internet related stuff to small businesses and that's awesome.

            The issue is that electric drill profits, selling balloons, palette reclamation, magnets, pizza box advertising space, and all that related stuff isn't germane to the topic of this forum and it really doesn't belong here.

            This isn't the how to make money off small business owners forum, this isn't the, here's a business or money making idea forum either, and surely this isn't the, "Psst... make $532.50 Today" forum. Is it?
            Hi Rus,

            I do agree with what you're saying. There are some things that are clearly off the wall and self promotional. On the other hand, it's hard to always know for sure. I can tell you from experience that there IS money in electric drills, drill bits, electrical tape and just about anything else industrial and some of those companies have no problem buying them over the phone.

            I don't know about box advertising space, but there is money in advertising on calendars, ink pens, coffee cups, t-shirts and more. I believe CafePress still does a lot of that stuff, but I haven't been over there in awhile.

            I don't know anything about the other stuff, but do you see my point? I'm 100% in agreement with you about stuff that's clearly ridiculous or self serving, but there are markets everywhere that need to be serviced. Just because we haven't thought of them doesn't mean that they're not credible.

            I hope that make sense. I'm still working on my morning coffee. lol

            Joe
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            • Profile picture of the author MRomeo09
              Personally I find the "off topic" items fairly amusing. I approach things differently than most though. About once every two months or so I'll buy every WSO on anything to do with offline, and while I find much of it to be complete BS, every now and again I get a little insight and inspiration from what I read. I look at the stuff that isn't internet marketing for brick and mortar businesses in the same light. I may never use any of it, but it's still useful to read on occasion. I typically only read what I find interesting, it doesn't take long to figure that out.

              The problem with any censorship is where does it start and where does it end? Bob Ross has done some really cool stuff with EDDM, that's not technically internet marketing for offline businesses. Should that be banned too?

              I get what you're saying, I'm just not sure censoring what is posted is the wisest of choices. We all choose what we do with our time, you're more than welcome not to read anything you don't want to read.
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              • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
                Hey, thanks for your input.

                There is no problem here with censorship because it is a privately owned forum and as such anything can be censored for whatever reason.

                Free speech rights don't apply here, one can post whatever they like but can't legally force the forum owner to allow it to remain.

                Originally Posted by MRomeo09 View Post

                Personally I find the "off topic" items fairly amusing. I approach things differently than most though. About once every two months or so I'll buy every WSO on anything to do with offline, and while I find much of it to be complete BS, every now and again I get a little insight and inspiration from what I read. I look at the stuff that isn't internet marketing for brick and mortar businesses in the same light. I may never use any of it, but it's still useful to read on occasion. I typically only read what I find interesting, it doesn't take long to figure that out.

                The problem with any censorship is where does it start and where does it end? Bob Ross has done some really cool stuff with EDDM, that's not technically internet marketing for offline businesses. Should that be banned too?

                I get what you're saying, I'm just not sure censoring what is posted is the wisest of choices. We all choose what we do with our time, you're more than welcome not to read anything you don't want to read.
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              • Profile picture of the author midasman09
                Banned
                In the "spirit" of THIS section of the Forum; "OFFline Marketing Discussion" I'd like to add a "money-making" project [snip]

                Moderator note: Knock it off, Don.
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                • Profile picture of the author Brandon Tanner
                  Originally Posted by midasman09 View Post

                  In the "spirit" of THIS section of the Forum; "OFFline Marketing Discussion" I'd like to add a "money-making" project I've helped MANY people to pick up some INSTANT CASH
                  Does anyone else find it funny that a thread which was started in order to bash "biz opp" discussions here... now has a "biz opp" idea posted within the thread?

                  Irony at it's finest.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
                    I don't find it funny at all. The poster is showing us a prime example of thread hijacking which IS against forum posting policy.

                    Originally Posted by Brandon Tanner View Post

                    Does anyone else find it funny that a thread which was started in order to bash "biz opp" discussions here... now has a "biz opp" idea posted within the thread?

                    Irony at it's finest.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Aaron Doud
                    Originally Posted by Brandon Tanner View Post

                    Does anyone else find it funny that a thread which was started in order to bash "biz opp" discussions here... now has a "biz opp" idea posted within the thread?

                    Irony at it's finest.
                    Pretty much blatant trolling. If only I had a ban stick lol
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                    • Profile picture of the author Brandon Tanner
                      Originally Posted by Aaron Doud View Post

                      If only I had a ban stick lol
                      Here ya go. I normally sell these for $9.99, but since you're a fellow Warrior... if you order before midnight tonight, I'll hook you up with my 20%-off "VIP" discount, and I'll even throw in my 35 page guide (valued at $47), "7 Steps To Troll Banning Success", at no extra cost!





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                    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
                      The problem with any censorship is where does it start and where does it end?
                      Well put. That is indeed the question.

                      Nobody believes the place would be better off without any sort of censorship (read: moderating) at all. A forum that went that route would quickly become full of spam and other forms of digital trash, and would be used by, and useful to, no-one.

                      If a forum is dedicated to a specific topic, it is incumbent on the moderator(s) to keep it focused within that area. I believe Russ makes a valid and useful point here.

                      He suggested this as a guide for the topics in this section:
                      This is about digital/online marketing for local small businesses.
                      That is my understanding of Allen's intent in creating this sub-section. I would think it could also include using offline methods to promote an online business.

                      The culture of the group here seems to have grown to include things like cold calling and direct mail. I don't see any reason to exclude those. They can be valuable components of a sales strategy. For the most part, this is probably the most civil and professional of the open discussion areas in the whole place, so I'm not really keen on messing with what you folks have developed.

                      This section was not meant, though, for "bucket bootstrapping" ideas, like "Make $500 a day polishing headlights" - unless you're using the net to sell the service. There's nothing at all wrong with using that sort of idea to get started, but this just isn't the place for it. Especially since the main proponent of those ideas is a fellow who Allen personally banned from this forum, and who saw fit to ignore the owner's expressed wishes and barge back in to annoy and insult the rest of the members.

                      Hint: I'm not talking about Martin.

                      Aaron Doud summed it up nicely here. I tend to agree with his outline, except that I would remove #8 from his list.

                      His comments here are especially on point:
                      I will tell you that having a community based mod is always more effective than using report buttons (and similar). It does seem that mods here act more like what I would call a manager (using the IGN board term) or even an administrator vs. a pure moderator which may be an issue with not wanting to create too many.
                      Nice description. Seriously. Well-considered.

                      Community mods have worked well in the copywriting and SEO sections. The trick is finding people who are active in the section, willing to do the work, and not given to pushing a specific agenda or blocking/deleting posts with which they simply disagree.

                      As you know, Aaron, the number of people who fit that description is a relatively small subset of any online group. And I don't know this group well enough to know who would fit. For example, I had no idea we had anyone in here who had that much experience moderating.


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                      • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
                        Paul, thanks for your input on this topic. I totally get that there are other related services that one can use to help a small business that aren't directly related to marketing on the internet for sure. Cold calling, direct mail, etc. etc. (client getting).

                        Additionally threads about helping others get clients would be germane to the topical focus of this forum as well.

                        It's just the business op type posts I've taken issue with and I'm glad that you clearly hold the same view as well.

                        So now that you've helped clarify some things, is it possible to get a clearer description for this section of the forums please.

                        Appreciated!

                        Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

                        Well put. That is indeed the question.

                        Nobody believes the place would be better off without any sort of censorship (read: moderating) at all. A forum that went that route would quickly become full of spam and other forms of digital trash, and would be used by, and useful to, no-one.

                        If a forum is dedicated to a specific topic, it is incumbent on the moderator(s) to keep it focused within that area. I believe Russ makes a valid and useful point here.

                        He suggested this as a guide for the topics in this section:That is my understanding of Allen's intent in creating this sub-section. I would think it could also include using offline methods to promote an online business.

                        The culture of the group here seems to have grown to include things like cold calling and direct mail. I don't see any reason to exclude those. They can be valuable components of a sales strategy. For the most part, this is probably the most civil and professional of the open discussion areas in the whole place, so I'm not really keen on messing with what you folks have developed.

                        This section was not meant, though, for "bucket bootstrapping" ideas, like "Make $500 a day polishing headlights" - unless you're using the net to sell the service. There's nothing at all wrong with using that sort of idea to get started, but this just isn't the place for it. Especially since the main proponent of those ideas is a fellow who Allen personally banned from this forum, and who saw fit to ignore the owner's expressed wishes and barge back in to annoy and insult the rest of the members.

                        Hint: I'm not talking about Martin.

                        Aaron Doud summed it up nicely here. I tend to agree with his outline, except that I would remove #8 from his list.

                        His comments here are especially on point:Nice description. Seriously. Well-considered.

                        Community mods have worked well in the copywriting and SEO sections. The trick is finding people who are active in the section, willing to do the work, and not given to pushing a specific agenda or blocking/deleting posts with which they simply disagree.

                        As you know, Aaron, the number of people who fit that description is a relatively small subset of any online group. And I don't know this group well enough to know who would fit. For example, I had no idea we had anyone in here who had that much experience moderating.


                        Paul
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                        • Profile picture of the author Marvin Johnston
                          Originally Posted by Rus Sells View Post

                          It's just the business op type posts I've taken issue with and I'm glad that you clearly hold the same view as well.

                          So now that you've helped clarify some things, is it possible to get a clearer description for this section of the forums please.
                          I'd suggest that "offline marketing" is a pretty clear description by itself.

                          One problem I see too frequently are people who want to add/change/restrict/??? based on their own viewpoints as opposed to what is good for the community as a whole. Kind of like there is no molehill small enough that can't be made into a mountain.

                          It is easy to tell a vibrant community as people are generally respectful of other peoples viewpoints.

                          One shining example is Paul... I've seen posts referring to him in rather unflattering terms. He is also clear with posts he publicly agrees/disagrees with. I'm constantly amazed at the amount of restraint he shows in such cases as a moderator. And he makes his viewpoints known while still maintaining order.

                          Maybe his actions are worth emulating.
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                          • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
                            Very true, however some people are completely obtuse.

                            Originally Posted by Marvin Johnston View Post

                            I'd suggest that "offline marketing" is a pretty clear description by itself.

                            One problem I see too frequently are people who want to add/change/restrict/??? based on their own viewpoints as opposed to what is good for the community as a whole. Kind of like there is no molehill small enough that can't be made into a mountain.

                            It is easy to tell a vibrant community as people are generally respectful of other peoples viewpoints.

                            One shining example is Paul... I've seen posts referring to him in rather unflattering terms. He is also clear with posts he publicly agrees/disagrees with. I'm constantly amazed at the amount of restraint he shows in such cases as a moderator. And he makes his viewpoints known while still maintaining order.

                            Maybe his actions are worth emulating.
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                            • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
                              Russ,
                              So now that you've helped clarify some things, is it possible to get a clearer description for this section of the forums please.
                              I could post a "sticky," but I'm not changing the descriptions Allen put in.

                              I'm not all that sure a "sticky" is needed or desirable. They tend, when things are already going well, to become things people try to use to forum-lawyer their way into doing stuff they weren't intended to encourage or allow.

                              We try to make as few rules as possible.
                              Very true, however some people are completely obtuse.
                              If those people get out of line and we know they have no respect for the rules anyway, there are better ways of handling them. Why should we inflict extra restrictions on everyone else to deal with a single destructive person, or even a small handful of them?

                              Put plainly, if Don doesn't want to work and play well with others, he can always be transferred out. I'd prefer he learn to express himself in more civil fashion and stop acting as though he owned the place. I know he can do it, as I've seen it occasionally over the past 2 decades.

                              As far as the "bucket bootstrapping" posts, just report them. They're easy enough to delete, and, given the amount of chaos they tend to generate, they should be deleted.


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                              • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
                                Thanks again for your reply Paul. A sticky is a good idea!

                                Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

                                Russ,I could post a "sticky," but I'm not changing the descriptions Allen put in.

                                I'm not all that sure a "sticky" is needed or desirable. They tend, when things are already going well, to become things people try to use to forum-lawyer their way into doing stuff they weren't intended to encourage or allow.

                                We try to make as few rules as possible.If those people get out of line and we know they have no respect for the rules anyway, there are better ways of handling them. Why should we inflict extra restrictions on everyone else to deal with a single destructive person, or even a small handful of them?

                                Put plainly, if Don doesn't want to work and play well with others, he can always be transferred out. I'd prefer he learn to express himself in more civil fashion and stop acting as though he owned the place. I know he can do it, as I've seen it occasionally over the past 2 decades.

                                As far as the "bucket bootstrapping" posts, just report them. They're easy enough to delete, and, given the amount of chaos they tend to generate, they should be deleted.


                                Paul
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            • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
              Thanks for your reply.

              Sure, some of the things already mentioned may or may not be a way to make money but just how does that relate to online marketing for small businesses, or any other type of money making scheme.

              How does it relate to the reason this sub forum was created? How does it relate to anything a online marketing agency would provide or offer to a small local business looking to do something marketing wise online? Nothing!

              So it's not a question of credibility, it's a question of being relevant to the forums topic.



              Originally Posted by Joe Stewart View Post

              Hi Rus,

              I do agree with what you're saying. There are some things that are clearly off the wall and self promotional. On the other hand, it's hard to always know for sure. I can tell you from experience that there IS money in electric drills, drill bits, electrical tape and just about anything else industrial and some of those companies have no problem buying them over the phone.

              I don't know about box advertising space, but there is money in advertising on calendars, ink pens, coffee cups, t-shirts and more. I believe CafePress still does a lot of that stuff, but I haven't been over there in awhile.

              I don't know anything about the other stuff, but do you see my point? I'm 100% in agreement with you about stuff that's clearly ridiculous or self serving, but there are markets everywhere that need to be serviced. Just because we haven't thought of them doesn't mean that they're not credible.

              I hope that make sense. I'm still working on my morning coffee. lol

              Joe
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              • Profile picture of the author Joe Stewart
                Originally Posted by Rus Sells View Post

                Thanks for your reply.

                Sure, some of the things already mentioned may or may not be a way to make money but just how does that relate to online marketing for small businesses, or any other type of money making scheme.

                How does it relate to the reason this sub forum was created? How does it relate to anything a online marketing agency would provide or offer to a small local business looking to do something marketing wise online? Nothing!

                So it's not a question of credibility, it's a question of being relevant to the forums topic.
                I understand what you're saying. I just think that unless they change the name of the sub-forum from "Offline Marketing Discussions" to something extremely direct, the door is being left open to talk about practically any kind of offline marketing there is. Even though the term "offliners" was coined for those individuals that are targeting small businesses with website, SEO and other services, that's not singled out in any way. That means that everyone's welcome - even the "riff-raff". :-)

                I've had this discussion with a few people in the "Building eCommerce Sites - Wholesale, Drop Shipping" sub-forum as well. There are many other people that sell items that you can drop ship besides those that just build eCommerce sites.

                Those two things are completely unrelated. I could have an ecommerce site, stock 100% of my products and never drop ship at all. I could also not have a website, use other methods to sell and drop ship everything. Does that make sense?

                To me that sounds like a lot of work building the site and a lot of work, money or both to advertise it.

                It's not all wrapped up neatly into a "one size fits all" package. There are different people that are involved in different elements of it. Just because they may not be building an ecommerce site doesn't mean that they know nothing about drop shipping. I don't own an ecommerce site, but I've been drop shipping for many, many years.

                Am I making sense? Unless the sub-forums are tightly niched down we're going to have people from all walks of life.

                I guess other posters are correct in saying that if it isn't relevant to us or it looks scummy, just don't click on it.

                Just a thought, if you or anyone else would feel more comfortable with just the one topic you could always either ask the Mods to create one or create your own. Some of you with a lot of experience in that niche could even open up a full fledged monthly membership and make some money teaching others what you know. Just a thought.
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  • Profile picture of the author mjbmedia
    when this forum started it was from discussions on the main forum about how to use internet marketing skills to help grow offline businesses ie sell our services to them etc, that's why it started, it has morphed and changed , but Russ is suggesting it should be what it started out as, and I to some extent agree.
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    • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
      Originally Posted by mjbmedia View Post

      when this forum started it was from discussions on the main forum about how to use internet marketing skills to help grow offline businesses ie sell our services to them etc, that's why it started, it has morphed and changed , but Russ is suggesting it should be what it started out as, and I to some extent agree.
      Not to be pedantic, but another way to say that is that it has evolved to serve the needs of the community.
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      • Profile picture of the author mjbmedia
        Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

        Not to be pedantic, but another way to say that is that it has evolved to serve the needs of the community.
        there's loads of ways to say it, but has it? Engagement on here has been well down in the last 6 months so is it serving the needs , maybe not, possibly as it has morphed and changed too much
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        • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
          Originally Posted by mjbmedia View Post

          there's loads of ways to say it, but has it? Engagement on here has been well down in the last 6 months so is it serving the needs , maybe not, possibly as it has morphed and changed too much
          Since the whole topic is subjective, the answer to "has it" will be different for everyone.

          There was a similar post recently in the Off Topic forum. Perhaps "engagement" and "quality" are forum-wide issues rather than confined to this sub-forum. Or perhaps it's even broader than that. Perhaps the issues are not what they appear to be.
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  • Profile picture of the author massiveray
    Personally I think this thread is a bigger waste of time than the ones that it's moaning about, at least those "£10 bajillion in 5 mins from vagina waxing" threads make me giggle sometimes.

    This one is literally just moaning!
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    • Profile picture of the author midasman09
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      "Beam Me Up, Scotty! No sign of "real life" here!"

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