44 replies
Hey there,

Jordan Belfort says that there must be an airtight logical and emotional case for a sale to be made. .

I have trouble building emotional cases. Or at least I don't understand them.

Usually, what happens is that I have no problem making people admit that they want what I have or that it at least makes sense. I've had people get visibly really excited (like WOW,is that for REAL?) and yet still screw up the sale.

Sometime they seem to want the offer, they want to buy, but they somehow convince themselves out of principle of not buying on the first call. Some even seem to be aware of what is happening and hangup pre-emptively. I get the feeling it's almost like a point of honor for them as if buying now made them gullible or a lesser being,either that or they simply don't trust me enough to part with their money.

Other people I have trouble closing are simply deadpan. They'll acknowledge the benefit of the product, the savings, etc calmly in the most polite tone possible, but when I try to close, it's always ''Too bad, if you want the deal, you'll send me something in writing first''.

So what motivates people? And how can you help along the process? Am I just coming in too forcefully? Any other thoughts?

It feels almost like trying to motivate a friend to workout. You can easily get them to agree to the benefits of wokring out, you can give them free passes to the gym. You can even offer them a free lift each and every time they want to go to the gym. But you know in your heart that they won't do anything before the doctor tells them they will have to lay off the burgers or they will die (and even then, for certain things, like cigarettes, even risk of death does not deter the user).
#deadpan #people
  • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
    Originally Posted by socialentry View Post


    So what motivates people? And how can you help along the process? Am I just coming in too forcefully? Any other thoughts?

    It feels almost like trying to motivate a friend to workout. You can easily get them to agree to the benefits of wokring out, you can give them free passes to the gym. You can even offer them a free lift each and every time they want to go to the gym. But you know in your heart that they won't do anything before the doctor tells them they will have to lay off the burgers or they will die (and even then, for certain things, like cigarettes, even risk of death does not deter the user).
    You can't motivate people.

    As a seller we don't have the time or money to try.

    Leave that to the social services people.

    My post about the Tipping Point was directed exactly
    at this. People are motivated to change by themselves
    without interference of a marketer or salesperson.

    Knowing this saves heartbreak and a bank account with moths in it.

    Have your message for those that are ready for change.

    Best,
    Ewen
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  • Profile picture of the author TakenAction
    you said,

    it's always ''Too bad, if you want the deal, you'll send me something in writing first''.

    Then why not tell them "okay I will have a contract written up within the hour and sent to your email for you to review and sign as well as a invoice for 50% (cost) upfront."

    I am just confused why you're taking this,

    ''Too bad, if you want the deal, you'll send me something in writing first''.

    as a failure to close?
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    • Profile picture of the author socialentry
      Because for what I do often calling back is the kiss of death. What they really mean is that they want to compare, they'll call their current provider who have teams of salesmen to convince them to stay

      and they'll usually match or best the offer the company I work for provides.
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      • Profile picture of the author RRG
        Originally Posted by socialentry View Post

        Because for what I do often calling back is the kiss of death. What they really mean is that they want to compare, they'll call their current provider who have teams of salesmen to convince them to stay

        and they'll usually match or best the offer the company I work for provides.
        Sounds to me like you're selling a commodity and have no real way to differentiate yourself.

        How can you restructure your offer/proposition so that it can't be compared to anything else?
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      • Profile picture of the author Becky Fourtion
        Originally Posted by socialentry View Post

        Because for what I do often calling back is the kiss of death. What they really mean is that they want to compare, they'll call their current provider who have teams of salesmen to convince them to stay

        and they'll usually match or best the offer the company I work for provides.
        Call backs usually work for me...
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        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
          Originally Posted by Becky Fourtion View Post

          Call backs usually work for me...
          Lots of salespeople make multiple call backs...and they get sales.

          But if you are selling even 20% of the people you call back, that means most of them would have bought, on the first call, if asked.

          Some salespeople are just not going to ask for the sale, and so...people who were willing to buy right then...get relegated to the "call back" list, and they buy later.

          Out of 12,000 in home presentations...I've been promised "I'll buy right after...", maybe 5,000 times. I've had one person actually buy later. And it's because I made a second call on him by mistake.

          Now, it doesn't work that way with e-mails. Lots of people buy later with e-mails.

          But a personal call? Talking to the decision maker? It just took more than one call to ask them to buy.
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  • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
    Are these people going to buy from someone, or are they just tire kickers?
    It's easy to get too excited just having a suspect to pitch to because they have not said no yet.
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  • Profile picture of the author socialentry
    Yeah, sometime I pitch the tire kickers.

    I just choose to pitch 9 or 10 people out of some 100-110 I reach a day and I do have some pretty good offers that are sometime 50% below market price. So if the guy is qualified I am going to pitch him even if he is not thinking about a phone.

    It's just that sometime I get them to admit to things like I'd save them 1400$ over two years and they simply don't care. Or at least they don't care enough to respect my time and not make me jump through hoops like call me back, email,etc.

    Perhaps I should simply ditch them and go to the next one if they're too deadpan?
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    • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
      Originally Posted by socialentry View Post

      Yeah, sometime I pitch the tire kickers.

      I just choose to pitch 9 or 10 people out of some 100-110 I reach a day and I do have some pretty good offers that are sometime 50% below market price. So if the guy is qualified I am going to pitch him even if he is not thinking about a phone.

      It's just that sometime I get them to admit to things like I'd save them 1400$ over two years and they simply don't care. Or at least they don't care enough to respect my time and not make me jump through hoops like call me back, email,etc.

      Perhaps I should simply ditch them and go to the next one if they're too deadpan?
      Maybe saving them $60/mo will be more motivating than $1400 over two years?

      Feature that you can make the switchover painless.
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      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
        I can't hear you on the phone, so I don't have a specific solution.

        But I can tell you where most people kill the sale...

        They hesitate when they close. They sound like they don't expect the prospect to buy. They may ask unnecessary questions, past the point where the person wants to buy.

        It's in the tone of your voice, the tempo. They pick up that you don't absolutely expect them to buy. And they don't even know that's why they are hesitating.

        People want certainty in their life. They can never be certain about any decision they make..so you have to be.
        Don't be overbearing...just talk as though the last 100 people you talked to, bought from you. And you completely expect them to buy also.

        That's one of the main differences between a guy barely making a living in sales, and a superstar.

        The truth is, most people want to be told what to do. Making decisions is hard for most of us humans. Your certainty that they should buy from you..now....partly transfers to prospects.

        This works even better in person, but it makes a huge difference in your voice, as well.

        By the way, in 12,000 in-home sales presentations...of which over 7,000 bought from me on the first call...

        All of them made a sacred pact, that they wouldn't buy from me that day. All of them.

        And every single person that has an absolute vow, that they will "think about it" before they buy...has broken that vow. If you are getting it at the end of the call, it's because they don't want to buy. After all, their rule is just something they made up.

        And I've been told hundreds and hundreds of times, at the beginning of a presentation that "I'll just let you know right now, we never buy on the first day. So we won't be buying anything today".

        And you know what happens? At the end, they decide they want what I have, and never bring up their Iron Clad Vow again....or they use it as a reason not to buy. But it isn't why they didn't buy. It's just easier to blame "my vow" than just saying "I don't want to buy from you".

        If they are excited about your offer, but then bring up their "Vow of not buying"....it's usually just that you indicated, unconsciously, that they shouldn't buy. And they picked up on it.

        And no salesperson that does this ever believes that they are doing it. At least in my experience.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jason Kanigan
    Probably High "C"s in the DISC profile...ultra-logical, math people. If-Then people. You're not going to excite them because they don't get excited very often. Sometimes they might be "D"s with terse phrases and decent organizational skills.

    So you have a choice:

    a) Screen them Out because they're too much hassle, and you can move on to easier-to-close prospects like "S"s and "I"s who easily get emotionally involved

    or

    b) See what happens when you tell one who seems interested in talking to you, "OK man, let's cut out any baloney that might have been here. You probably think I'm out to get you to sign up any way I can, right?" (Wait for them to answer.) "OK. And from my point of view, you might be surprised to learn that when I run across a guy like you, they want to do two things. One, there's NO WAY they are going to sign up based on a simple phone call. Two, they want to see something in writing. So tell me, is that what you're thinking?" (Wait for their answer.) "So here's the deal: I am NOT going to try to push you into anything. You make up your mind on your own. ...But...what do you need to make up your mind? What do you need to SEE?" (Wait for their answer.)

    "All right. And how can I get you that information?" (Fax, email, carrier pigeon.)

    "Now (NAME), before we go any further, I have to tell you that guys like you are too smart for me. Seriously. Here's what happens. I send you the info, and then you go back to your current provider and say, 'Hey, this is what XYZ is promising me if I switch. What are you gonna do for me?' And then you never get back to me, and all I sent my info for was to be used as a negotiation tool. Do you think I like feeling like a tool?" (Wait for response.)

    "So you tell me. After you've done your due diligence, and I appreciate why you'd want to get the best deal for yourself--if I were in your shoes I'd want to do the same thing--will you call me back?" (Wait for answer.)

    "OK so whatever you find out, you promise you'll call me back to tell me? Because I don't want to waste time for either of us. And then you'll tell me what they said?" (Wait for answer.)

    "Fine. Once you do that, then I can let you know if there's anything we can do for you if they could do better than what I offer you today. Maybe we won't be able to. But maybe we will. Either way, I'd like us to have that conversation. Make sense?"

    "And how long do you think it'll take to get a response from your current vendor? When do you think you'll be able to call me back?" (Calendar it.)

    If there's a No from the prospect anywhere along the line, politely end the call and move on.

    Now you have a feedback loop in place and a promise for the prospect to return with further data. Now you have a fighting chance. I personally don't like getting locked into the negotiation pattern, but with these prospects it's best to acknowledge and roll with it. They're gonna do it to you anyway.

    Is it worth it, or too much hassle? You'll have to be the judge.
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  • Profile picture of the author misterme
    Originally Posted by socialentry View Post

    Jordan Belfort says that there must be an airtight logical and emotional case for a sale to be made...

    I have trouble building emotional cases. Or at least I don't understand them...

    I've had people get visibly really excited (like WOW,is that for REAL?) and yet still screw up the sale...

    Sometime they seem to want the offer, they want to buy, but they somehow convince themselves out of principle of not buying on the first call. Some even seem to be aware of what is happening and hangup pre-emptively. I get the feeling it's almost like a point of honor for them as if buying now made them gullible or a lesser being, either that or they simply don't trust me enough to part with their money.

    Other people I have trouble closing are simply deadpan. They'll acknowledge the benefit of the product, the savings, etc calmly in the most polite tone possible, but when I try to close, it's always ''Too bad, if you want the deal, you'll send me something in writing first''...
    Originally Posted by socialentry View Post

    What they really mean is that they want to compare, they'll call their current provider who have teams of salesmen to convince them to stay

    and they'll usually match or best the offer the company I work for provides.
    Then why are you thinking this has to do with making an emotional case? You said you already have people who get "visibly excited" and they still don't buy. So it's not that.

    It's more probably they don't trust you, they don't sense any urgency to do it now, they have unanswered concerns.

    And maybe you don't know how to work with that?

    For example, when they ask you to send them something in writing and you know from past experience all they want is something they can use as a bargaining chip against their current provider, wouldn't you simply need something more powerful to respond with then whatever you're saying now? Isn't that really more specifically what you want? Why don't you try responding with "Sure I can write up something for you" or "better than that I can give you the information right now" followed with "ummm, what part exactly is it you want to know more about?" and get them looped around - another Belfort concept since you're talking Belfort - and back into a conversation giving yourself another chance to close?

    What it really sounds like you need to do in that conversation is to pre-empt the incumbent competition from saving their sale by making the prospect unhappy about the shortcomings their provider has they're not thinking about that results in how they're not being taken care of right by their provider and missing out. Maybe you can volunteer what information you think is best to send them by innocently saying, "well okay let me send you information on how my super widget is coated in steel which lowers its cost by 79% because it lasts longer than the plastic coating others use, would that be okay? And I'll also send you our 62 point check-up sheet where we actually screen our service techs for criminal backgrounds, because it's unbelievable how ex-cons just love working for firms like ours because it gives them easy access into the customers' vaults, you know? So we're the only firm who actually screens" OK, maybe I'm being a bit too over the top here but you get my drift.

    Now that oughtta elicit an emotion.
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    • Profile picture of the author mojo1
      Originally Posted by misterme View Post

      And I'll also send you our 62 point check-up sheet where we actually screen our service techs for criminal backgrounds, because it's unbelievable how ex-cons just love working for firms like ours because it gives them easy access into the customers' vaults, you know? So we're the only firm who actually screens"

      Now that oughtta elicit an emotion.
      Freaking incredible...lol
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  • Profile picture of the author Underground
    Selling on the first call on the phone. This is the emotional sales equivalent of hair-trigger premature ejaculation.

    The cause, or stimulus in this case, is pure desperation for the sale and self-concern over its opposite. Trying to get what you want on the call, an instant sale. Rather than generating a lead and working with them through a multi-step buying process at their pace until they make the decision themselves.

    People who will tell you to go harder are just leading you down the wrong path. They probably watch Glengarry Glen Ross scenes every morning to get hyped and in the zone.

    Trying to close on the first call today is just idiotic and unnecessary. And, to the extent that the adage ''people buy people'' is true, is a rather ugly and obnoxious personality trait very few people can abide.

    On this place, a lot will tell you to forget about the scores of people who would/are interested and potentially a good deal of them would become customers with the right approach, and just seek the ones who will buy. Because they get sales, they think this is the best way.

    People targeting the other demographic, the majority who would lead to far more sales, often see just that as a result.

    There is no magic wand or secret sales skill that can change human nature at the drop of the hat and make more people warm to being sold there and then in cases where they aren't lay-downs anyway. Don't look for one. Look for a different call to action most will accept, as there is little risk or loss of status, to advance the conversation to the next step of the sequence.

    If needed I can give some very well proven sources that will help you create an ideal buying sequence mirrored to how people actually buy.
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    • Profile picture of the author socialentry
      Originally Posted by Underground View Post

      If needed I can give some very well proven sources that will help you create an ideal buying sequence mirrored to how people actually buy.
      I certainly don't agree that a one call close reek of desesperation but sure why not? Shoot, I'm open to anything.

      I am not queasy either way, I am an empiricist and a pragmatist first and foremost.
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      • Profile picture of the author Underground
        Originally Posted by socialentry View Post

        I certainly don't agree that a one call close reek of desesperation but sure why not? Shoot, I'm open to anything.

        I am not queasy either way, I am an empiricist and a pragmatist first and foremost.
        Cool. Same as me. I'll collate some good material later and post.

        Being able to offer people 6 gigs for less than they'd pay elsewhere for one is a very strong selling proposition.


        If you sold this door to door, or on the street like charity campaigners work, where they could see you and look at well-produced literature that backs up your claims, and you did this like a professional company does (very rarely can you compete against the giants if you don't at least look like a professional, credible company with either good collateral or a way to demonstrate, even if your case it strong), you'd sell a lot more and it would be worth going for the one call sign up for a trial service or something if they don't go for the full service straight away.

        I sold cheaper utilities door to door that undercut the big power companies after deregulation in the UK, and being able to say ''would you be interested in seeing how you could save around £300 a year on your electricity bills'', and then having skillful presentation lead to many people being closed on the one call.


        On the phone though, the same interest is there, but there just isn't that human interaction that assuages the distrust they have of making a decision there and then based on your word only. If you can make something tangible to send them from the first call, since obviously you have their interest, like a direct mail piece and somewhere to direct them to online to get their email details and then educate them then you won't be turning off interested people who would have become customers. It's important to educate them, and not in a random way by chucking content at them haphazardly, but in a sequenced way that reflects how people make purchase decisions, and a way that let's them buy when they are ready (and since this is a fairly easy sell, if you do the sequence right they won't need to be strong-armed into buying), then you'll have a far higher success with the people you speak to and far more sales. Provided your service is quality and can deliver.

        One methodology I'll post later is the best one around for how to structure your offerings and sequences in a way that does everything needed to leave no stone unturned in a prospects mind that would stop them wanting to buy what you have or taking action on doing that. It's not theory either.
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  • Profile picture of the author AlexTee
    Originally Posted by socialentry View Post

    Hey there,

    Jordan Belfort says that there must be an airtight logical and emotional case for a sale to be made. .

    I have trouble building emotional cases. Or at least I don't understand them.

    Usually, what happens is that I have no problem making people admit that they want what I have or that it at least makes sense. I've had people get visibly really excited (like WOW,is that for REAL?) and yet still screw up the sale.

    Sometime they seem to want the offer, they want to buy, but they somehow convince themselves out of principle of not buying on the first call. Some even seem to be aware of what is happening and hangup pre-emptively. I get the feeling it's almost like a point of honor for them as if buying now made them gullible or a lesser being,either that or they simply don't trust me enough to part with their money.

    Other people I have trouble closing are simply deadpan. They'll acknowledge the benefit of the product, the savings, etc calmly in the most polite tone possible, but when I try to close, it's always ''Too bad, if you want the deal, you'll send me something in writing first''.

    So what motivates people? And how can you help along the process? Am I just coming in too forcefully? Any other thoughts?

    It feels almost like trying to motivate a friend to workout. You can easily get them to agree to the benefits of wokring out, you can give them free passes to the gym. You can even offer them a free lift each and every time they want to go to the gym. But you know in your heart that they won't do anything before the doctor tells them they will have to lay off the burgers or they will die (and even then, for certain things, like cigarettes, even risk of death does not deter the user).
    ........ of not buying on the first call

    This is the sentence that caught my attention then the following questions:

    So what motivates people?

    And how can you help along the process?

    Am I just coming in too forcefully?

    Any other thoughts?

    I don't know what you are selling and why it is so important to close them on the first call.

    If you are selling software....then getting them to buy on the first call is not likely to happen. If it does happen it is probably not a profitable sale.

    You may not be screwing up the sale and just need to redefine what the sale is (i.e., another appointment or demo, etc.) versus getting them to buy based just on what you are saying on the first visit or phone call.

    There has to be a "proof on concept" stage when selling technology/software to get them off the fence.

    Example:

    Once again, I don't know what you are selling, but you should have a live demo site to take them to so you can show them what they are going to get, how it works and advance the sale while they are in an excited state.

    ..........they simply don't trust me enough to part with their money.

    Once you can demonstrate what you say is true and can combine this with numbers (very powerful) that can either keep cost current and increase productivity.... or lower costs and maintain current levels of productivity.. or..... lower costs and increase productivity, they will release the money!

    .........Too bad, if you want the deal, you'll send me something in writing first''

    What they are looking for is proof here and they won't make this demand if you can prove what you say.

    Technology prospects are motivated by WIIFM....what's in it for me. You have to personalize the sale process by describing how your product/service solve specific problems they are having (pain points).

    There are so many sales reps coming through making outrageous claims about what their software can do so they are skeptical as they should be.
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Socialentry; Maybe it would help, if you told us what you were selling, and to who. Are the people already using your product? (Not from you) Are you calling people that own a business? A small business? Work in a business? Are consumers at home?

      Maybe the reason you are getting conflicting advice from some intelligent people, is that we are telling you how we sell. But what we sell, isn't what you sell. And who we sell to, isn't who you sell to.


      Now, I'm going to go back to watching Glengarry Glen Ross, while I pleasure myself.
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      • Profile picture of the author socialentry
        Well I sell cell phones over the phone to consumers. They are already customers and pay in averages 100$ a month in other services (usually, internet/TV/home phone) so it's not a super-complicated sales/offer.

        The lists are not filtered beyond this. I sell everyone basically.

        The two kinds of people I choose to pitch are people with cell phones already OR that are in the market for a cell phone in the near future.

        The caveat is that the company I work for doesn't have great coverage with their antennas, and so can afford the cheaper plans. E.g. Iphones 5s plans in Quebec are around 80$ with 1 Gb of internet, I can offer it at 66 $ with 6 Gb. The other thing is customer service is generally better (I think the company has 93% satisfaction vs. 83% industry average ) but I've never really been able to use that point efficiently lest the opposition pissed the prospect off at one point.

        I have access to a whole bunch of phones but the items I make most commission on are Samsung Galaxies and Iphones 5s and so I rarely choose to sell anything else then this.
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        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
          Originally Posted by socialentry View Post

          Well I sell cell phones over the phone to consumers. They are already customers and pay in averages 100$ a month in other services (usually, internet/TV/home phone) so it's not a super-complicated sales/offer.

          The lists are not filtered beyond this. I sell everyone basically.

          The two kinds of people I choose to pitch are people with cell phones already OR that are in the market for a cell phone in the near future.

          The caveat is that the company I work for doesn't have great coverage with their antennas, and so can afford the cheaper plans. E.g. Iphones 5s plans in Quebec are around 80$ with 1 Gb of internet, I can offer it at 66 $ with 6 Gb. The other thing is customer service is generally better (I think the company has 93% satisfaction vs. 83% industry average ) but I've never really been able to use that point efficiently lest the opposition pissed the prospect off at one point.

          I have access to a whole bunch of phones but the items I make most commission on are Samsung Galaxies and Iphones 5s and so I rarely choose to sell anything else then this.

          Cell phones? Over the phone to consumers?

          I think the first sale should be getting them on your e-mail list, then a lengthy series of e-mails, to build familiarity with your name. Then a personal phone call once every 3 months...and drip feed links to a video series you have produced. But whatever you do, don't ask them to buy. Eventually, they will tell you when they are ready to buy from you.

          One call selling doesn't work. It may take 12 phone calls, dozens of e-mails...and a Birthday card. You know, really get to know them, before you ever bring up the fact that you sell cell phones and plans. You don't want to risk them finding out that you sell something that they may want to buy. Play it cool. Keep a low profile. That way, it's hard for them to say "No". They may never say "Yes", but you won't have to hear a "No".

          That's the professional way to sell.

          I hope I've helped.
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          • Profile picture of the author Jason Kanigan
            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

            Cell phones? Over the phone to consumers?

            I think the first sale should be getting them on your e-mail list, then a lengthy series of e-mails, to build familiarity with your name. Then a personal phone call once every 3 months...and drip feed links to a video series you have produced. But whatever you do, don't ask them to buy. Eventually, they will tell you when they are ready to buy from you.

            One call selling doesn't work. It may take 12 phone calls, dozens of e-mails...and a Birthday card. You know, really get to know them, before you ever bring up the fact that you sell cell phones and plans. You don't want to risk them finding out that you sell something that they may want to buy. Play it cool. Keep a low profile. That way, it's hard for them to say "No". They may never say "Yes", but you won't have to hear a "No".

            That's the professional way to sell.

            I hope I've helped.
            If you took Claude seriously in this post, you are an idiot.

            Nick, you've been doing these sales jobs for what, 2 years now? And you keep moving from crappy industry to even crappier industry. Sorry to be blunt but this is what it is. You keep picking worse and worse marketplaces to try and succeed in.

            Find a job in a field where you can differentiate yourself...charge more money...really make a transformation in the lives of your customers.

            In stock trading or cell phone plans, you aren't going to do any of these things. You are stuck in a field where there are tons of competitors, all lowballing prices, and struggling for peanuts.

            Oh I guess we have all heard of the busboy or flight safety announcer who does something special to stand out, but that doesn't translate into more, scaleable income or a real difference for their customers.

            Time to THINK instead of just "getting a job and seeing what happens."
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            • Profile picture of the author Recruitment Nick
              Originally Posted by Jason Kanigan View Post

              If you took Claude seriously in this post, you are an idiot.

              Nick, you've been doing these sales jobs for what, 2 years now? And you keep moving from crappy industry to even crappier industry. Sorry to be blunt but this is what it is. You keep picking worse and worse marketplaces to try and succeed in.

              Find a job in a field where you can differentiate yourself...charge more money...really make a transformation in the lives of your customers.

              In stock trading or cell phone plans, you aren't going to do any of these things. You are stuck in a field where there are tons of competitors, all lowballing prices, and struggling for peanuts.

              Oh I guess we have all heard of the busboy or flight safety announcer who does something special to stand out, but that doesn't translate into more, scaleable income or a real difference for their customers.

              Time to THINK instead of just "getting a job and seeing what happens."
              Was this aimed at me, or did I miss where Socialentry named himself Nick?
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            • Profile picture of the author Underground
              Originally Posted by Jason Kanigan View Post

              If you took Claude seriously in this post, you are an idiot.

              Nick, you've been doing these sales jobs for what, 2 years now? And you keep moving from crappy industry to even crappier industry. Sorry to be blunt but this is what it is. You keep picking worse and worse marketplaces to try and succeed in.

              Find a job in a field where you can differentiate yourself...charge more money...really make a transformation in the lives of your customers.

              In stock trading or cell phone plans, you aren't going to do any of these things. You are stuck in a field where there are tons of competitors, all lowballing prices, and struggling for peanuts.

              Oh I guess we have all heard of the busboy or flight safety announcer who does something special to stand out, but that doesn't translate into more, scaleable income or a real difference for their customers.

              Time to THINK instead of just "getting a job and seeing what happens."
              I admired his sarcasm and humour and know he's talking about in face-to-face selling. I thought he was exaggerating to make a humorous point about no going for the sale on the first call.

              In phone selling, even he gets his phone people to set appointments first, so he can then go and sell.

              I now realize, after reading in full properly rather than skimming, he was actually exaggerating to defend the point of going for the kill on the first call.


              What is it with this place and the woeful adherence to trying to sell right there and then? The percentage of people who will do that on the phone is pathetically small compared to those who would agree to a meeting or next step where they are far more likely to be able to be sold.

              Yet the sarcastic dismissals of anyone who goes against the advice of the vets here about having a more sophisticated and effective sales process that involves more than one touch would suggest that the bulk of your prospects are simply waiting there expectantly for you to ''show a pair of balls and just close them''.

              Well, he has been trying to close them for christ's sake after having their interest and not being able to capitalize on it because he turned them off.... By trying to close them there and then.


              Does this not speak for itself? That's he's able to get interest, has actually gone for the close, and yet no-one is buying despite being interested.

              Why aren't they buying? To the idiotic wisdom of this place and the egos, it's because he's not closing hard enough.

              It's due to other reasons. And if he made provisions in his sales process for those reasons and dealt with them, he'd sell more.

              Can't believe this place sometimes.
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              • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
                Originally Posted by Underground View Post

                I admired his sarcasm and humour and know he's talking about in face-to-face selling. I thought he was exaggerating to make a humorous point about no going for the sale on the first call.

                In phone selling, even he gets his phone people to set appointments first, so he can then go and sell.

                I now realize he was actually exaggerating to defend the point of going for the kill on the first call.


                What is it with this place and the woeful adherence to trying to sell right there and then? The percentage of people who will do that on the phone is pathetically small compared to those who would agree to a meeting to where they are far more likely to be able to be sold.

                Yet the sarcastic dismissals of anyone who goes against the advice of the vets here about having a more sophisticated and effective sales process that involves more than one touch would suggest that the bulk of your prospect are simply waiting there expectantly for you to show a pair of balls and just close them.

                Well, he has been trying to close them for christ's sake after having their interest and not being able to capitalize on it because he turned them off by trying to close them there and then.


                Does this not speak for itself. That's he's able to get interest, has actually gone for the close, and yet no-one is buying despite being interested.

                Why aren't they buying? To the idiotic wisdom of this place and the egos, it's because he's not closing hard enough.

                It's due to other reasons. And if he made provisions in his sales process for those reasons and dealt with them, he'd sell more.

                Can't believe this place sometimes.
                No reason to blanket insult people here, or preach your way is best when you don't
                grasp the specific situation.

                Relationship building selling definitely has its place for some products and services.
                One call closing also has it's place for certain products and services.
                A lot depends upon the pre-selling and marketing and entire sales funnel.

                He's not closing because it's cell phone plans to consumers.
                For the majority of consumers there's no significant savings
                and not enough service issues to make them want to go
                through the hassle of switching. And they may still be on contract...

                I worked for a telemarketing firm contracted to sell long distance
                phone service to consumers. The project was abandoned for the
                reasons above. Nobody made enough sales to make it worthwhile.

                ---------------------------

                Socialentry: I agree with Jason. Find something bigger ticket to sell.
                Something more meaningful to businesses or consumers.
                Something that solves a better problem or helps more.
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                • Profile picture of the author Underground
                  Originally Posted by bizgrower View Post

                  No reason to blanket insult people here, or preach your way is best when you don't
                  grasp the specific situation.
                  It's not 'my way'. And look, it goes both ways with the blanket insults. The sarcasm from people still stuck in 80's selling wise in today's environment. Insinuating because some people see no defeat in working with a prospect over several calls if it's clear they can't be closed on the first one but have shown interest, it means they have no balls and are to scared to close at all.

                  What I mean by it's not my way, I mean that is the overwhelming reality of the marketing place today in most spheres when it comes to selling.

                  Reams and reams or studies and results and analysis from the biggest firms in the world, who invest heavily in working out the buying processes and patterns of people attest to this.

                  Yes, you still have the Tom Hopkins types. Yes, they still make sales. But, such approaches are far less effective than they once was, for many reasons people are just to wrapped in their way of doing things to even contemplate.

                  Originally Posted by bizgrower View Post

                  Relationship building selling definitely has its place for some products and services.
                  One call closing also has it's place for certain products and services.
                  A lot depends upon the pre-selling and marketing and entire sales funnel.
                  Of course, if you ring from a well known national company who already have laid the ground work to build the brand so people instantly know who they are and what they are about, it will be far easier to use that to sell there and then.

                  Most warriors haven't got that and just phone people cold out of the blue and expect them to buy there and then because that person uses a few sales techniques.

                  Obvious foolishness and both Jason and Claude understand the need for marketing and such.

                  Yet, still defend the idea that you can call people put of the blue who have never heard of you and sell, and you must just not be doing it right if you can't do that.

                  He's not closing because it's cell phone plans to consumers.
                  For the majority of consumers there's no significant savings
                  and not enough service issues to make them want to go
                  through the hassle of switching. And they may still be on contract...

                  In his case, there is significant savings and interest from them, but they won't buy on the first call out of principle. That is the issue.


                  So what should he do. Forget them and move on. Or find a way to address why the won't buy there and then and create a work-around so they don't have to but still get opportunities to do that for when they are ready.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Jason Kanigan
                    Originally Posted by Underground View Post

                    It's not 'my way'. And look, it goes both ways with the blanket insults. The sarcasm from people still stuck in 80's selling wise in today's environment. Insinuating because some people see no defeat in working with a prospect over several calls if it's clear they can't be closed on the first one but have shown interest, it means they have no balls and are to scared to close at all.

                    What I mean by it's not my way, I mean that is the overwhelming reality of the marketing place today in most spheres when it comes to selling.

                    Reams and reams or studies and results and analysis from the biggest firms in the world, who invest heavily in working out the buying processes and patterns of people attest to this.

                    Yes, you still have the Tom Hopkins types. Yes, they still make sales. But, such approaches are far less effective than they once was, for many reasons people are just to wrapped in their way of doing things to even contemplate.



                    Of course, if you ring from a well known national company who already have laid the ground work to build the brand so people instantly know who they are and what they are about, it will be far easier to use that to sell there and then.

                    Most warriors haven't got that and just phone people cold out of the blue and expect them to buy there and then because that person uses a few sales techniques.

                    Obvious foolishness and both Jason and Claude understand the need for marketing and such.

                    Yet, still defend the idea that you can call people put of the blue who have never heard of you and sell, and you must just not be doing it right if you can't do that.




                    In his case, there is significant savings and interest from them, but they won't buy on the first call out of principle. That is the issue.


                    So what should he do. Forget them and move on. Or find a way to address why the won't buy there and then and create a work-around so they don't have to.
                    I used to respect your posts, Underground. Your posts were rare, but I recognized your nickname and paid attention to what you had to say. About a month ago you suddenly started posting as if you knew the one and only path to success, and it hasn't been good since.

                    Why do you assume you know how I teach people how to sell?

                    Why do you assume I don't understand marketing?

                    Why do you assume I teach people to go for one-call closes?

                    Incorrect, every time.

                    What I teach is a consistent sales process. Nothing like Tom Hopkins', who wrote the first book on selling I ever read back around 1999 or maybe even earlier (the copy belonged to a friend I met in 1994 and I may have borrowed it any time in those years), and quickly decided wasn't for me. At every step, the process either is Over or it Continues. And you know why. No mystery.

                    If it continues, and you started from a prospecting call--the purpose of which is to identify whether this person has any NEED for what you offer--but they aren't ready to buy now, you have many options of how to proceed. Putting them on a drip marketing sequence may be the right answer.

                    I have explained many times and at length how, if you want to be taken seriously and demonstrate you can handle big (ie. big money) projects, you have to have a level of marketing collateral the average person or business just doesn't have.

                    Going for the throat in one-call closes is not the best approach and it is outdated. Again, this is not what I teach people how to do. I do not encourage people to phone new prospects and blast them with features and benefits in order to bowl them over and get the order. I teach them how to prospect and QUALIFY first. Long before selling ever comes into the picture.

                    And maybe you aren't aware of this, but I am a well paid copywriter as well as sales trainer. I fully understand effective marketing and have the case studies to prove it.

                    I have been a manager at large companies and know how all the parts are interrelated.

                    You have made some bad assumptions. There is value in what you have to share, I know there is. Please stop bashing every other method as if you have the Holy Grail of business development, though. Yours is one part of several, and they all work if you stick with them and figure them out.

                    One final point. Some people on this forum think I'm very direct. I find this funny, because in real life I've been told I'm extremely diplomatic. Well, this is a public forum, and I treat it like being a television guest: you have to speak clearly or your message won't be heard. A guest on a TV show who tries to be "reasonable" merely comes across as wishy-washy and forgettable. I am here to help people and change lives. In the past 6 months I'll bet I've made a few thousand dollars from the forum, nothing more...my clients are from far away from here and are in a completely different place financially, mentally and operationally. When I post here, it's because I want to. And I know my messages have changed thousands of lives...and the feedback is around to demonstrate it.

                    If that makes me come across as harsh sometimes, I apologize for that. Sometimes I see a thing and know it's pie in the sky because I've seen the idea before...and I'll say so. Keep in mind I have seen many things in business over the past 25 years. And not that I'm speaking for Claude but he's older than I am and inquisitive, so he must have seen even more. He does local online marketing, too, so he knows all about the value and expertise required in that field.

                    I have never said phone prospecting is the one and only, be all and end all. What I teach is how to sell face to face AND over the phone...sooner or later you are going to have to talk to someone, even if they call or visit you. And then what are you going to do? That's the question I answer and the piece of the puzzle I concentrate on.

                    Now I hope we can get along and help people with our different expertise in different areas of the puzzle of How Do We Attract, Qualify and Sell to Great Clients We Can Get Amazing Results For. Because that's what we really ought to be doing.

                    Oh, @Recruitment Nick, socialentry used to be Nick1 on the old telemarketing forum. I have known him for a long time and even talked with him over the phone.

                    @socialentry, I really do try to help you, not hurt your feelings, and appreciate that you ask questions. Not many people even get that far. Good discussions have come out of those thread-starters.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Underground
                      Originally Posted by Jason Kanigan View Post

                      I used to respect your posts, Underground. Your posts were rare, but I recognized your nickname and paid attention to what you had to say. About a month ago you suddenly started posting as if you knew the one and only path to success, and it hasn't been good since.

                      Why do you assume you know how I teach people how to sell?

                      Why do you assume I don't understand marketing?

                      Why do you assume I teach people to go for one-call closes?

                      Incorrect, every time.

                      What I teach is a consistent sales process. Nothing like Tom Hopkins', who wrote the first book on selling I ever read back around 1999, and quickly decided wasn't for me. At every step, the process either is Over or it Continues. And you know why. No mystery.

                      If it continues, and you started from a prospecting call--the purpose of which is to identify whether this person has any NEED for what you offer--but they aren't ready to buy now, you have many options of how to proceed. Putting them on a drip marketing sequence may be the right answer.

                      I have explained many times and at length how, if you want to be taken seriously and demonstrate you can handle big (ie. big money) projects, you have to have a level of marketing collateral the average person or business just doesn't have.

                      Going for the throat in one-call closes is not the best approach and it is outdated. Again, this is not what I teach people how to do. I do not encourage people to phone new prospects and blast them with features and benefits in order to bowl them over and get the order. I teach them how to prospect and QUALIFY first. Long before selling ever comes into the picture.

                      And maybe you aren't aware of this, but I am a well paid copywriter as well as sales trainer. I fully understand effective marketing and have the case studies to prove it.

                      I have been a manager at large companies and know how all the parts are interrelated.

                      You have made some bad assumptions. There is value in what you have to share, I know there is. Please stop bashing every other method as if you have the Holy Grail of business development, though. Yours is one part of several, and they all work if you stick with them and figure them out.

                      One final point. Some people on this forum think I'm very direct. I find this funny, because in real life I've been told I'm extremely diplomatic. Well, this is a public forum, and I treat it like being a television guest: you have to speak clearly or your message won't be heard. A guest on a TV show who tries to be "reasonable" merely comes across as wishy-washy and forgettable. I am here to help people and change lives. In the past 6 months I'll bet I've made a few thousand dollars from the forum, nothing more...my clients are from far away from here and are in a completely different place financially, mentally and operationally. When I post here, it's because I want to.

                      If that makes me come across as harsh sometimes, I apologize for that. Sometimes I see a thing and know it's pie in the sky because I've seen the idea before...and I'll say so. Keep in mind I have seen many things in business over the past 25 years. And not that I'm speaking for Claude but he's older than I am so he must have seen even more. He does local online marketing, too, so he knows all about the value and expertise required in that field.

                      I have never said phone prospecting is the one and only, be all and end all. What I teach is how to sell face to face AND over the phone...sooner or later you are going to have to talk to someone, even if they call or visit you. And then what are you going to do? That's the question I answer and the piece of the puzzle I concentrate on.

                      Now I hope we can get along and help people with our different expertise in different areas of the puzzle of How Do We Attract, Qualify and Sell to Great Clients We Can Get Amazing Results For. Because that's what we really ought to be doing.

                      Oh, @Recruitment Nick, socialentry used to be Nick1 on the old telemarketing forum. I have known him for a long time and even talked with him over the phone.

                      Jason, there's no need for ad homs and personal slights. Attack the points I make about why I'm wrong about taking a multi-step approach all day. That's not personal.


                      I'm not a zealot or have one particular, systemized approach I promote as superior to the exclusion of all others. I very specifically oppose a zealous, outdated, ridiculous contempt - that is virtually ever present on this board - that pours scorn on anyone who would chose a more multi-step nurturing sales process in favour of a ''get the sale now or GTFO''


                      I simply point that the the former approach has a-lot more going for it and gets far better results and people are being pointed in the wrong direction if they are being dissuaded from taking such an approach.
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                      • Profile picture of the author Jason Kanigan
                        Originally Posted by Underground View Post

                        Jason, there's no need for ad homs and personal slights. Attack the points I make about why I'm wrong about taking a multi-step approach all day. That's not personal.


                        I'm not a zealot or have one particular, systemized approach I promote as superior to the exclusion of all others. I very specifically oppose a zealous, outdated, ridiculous contempt - that is virtually ever present on this board - that pours scorn on anyone who would chose a more multi-step nurturing sales process in favour of a ''get the sale now or GTFO''


                        I simply point that the the former approach has a-lot more going for it and gets far better results and people are being pointed in the wrong direction if they are being dissuaded from taking such an approach.
                        I don't think you read my last post.
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                        • Profile picture of the author Underground
                          Originally Posted by Jason Kanigan View Post

                          I don't think you read my last post.
                          I did. But I just don't want to go down that line of debate. I know there is far more quality in watch you teach.

                          That doesn't mean you haven't been guilty on occasion of mocking sales/marketing process that involve more than just one step.
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                      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                        Children...Children.

                        The ticket on the mobile phone sale is just too small to use a funnel. The only way I can see that, is to call, get the date the contract is up...and follow up then. In fact, that may be a smart way to start the call, and then see if the person is open to talk about switching now.

                        Then you have two tracks; The "I'll call the guy back when his contract is up" list, and the "let's switch them now" presentation.

                        The truth is, you can qualify, discover needs, answer questions, and get the sale...in one call. It doesn't mean "Close, close, close"....it just doesn't usually take more than one call.

                        There are lots of sales positions where multiple calls are almost always needed. In fact, one call selling isn't always the best approach. Sometimes it's nonsensical to think you can gather information, talk to decision makers, establish buying criteria, expand awareness of need, explore the benefits of buying,, and finalizing a sale...in one call.

                        But cell phone plans? One call. It just isn't a complicated sale. There are no committee meetings, not appointment needed, no gathering of documents...it's a simple sale.

                        When I sold life insurance, (in the dim past), I would ask questions, in person, about putting them on my mailing list. The conversation may have taken 10 minutes or so.
                        Partly, I was getting information about birthdays, benefits at work, and was planning for an appointment. But the real reason I asked the questions was to uncover something I could present right then. And the approach worked well.

                        If this were "in person selling", then a phone call, leading up to a presentation may be the right way to proceed. But if it's going to be sold over the phone anyway, why wait?

                        It's a small ticket sale, to an individual. Repeated calls to the same person (or other funnels) would increase your closing percentage. But I don't think it would increase your sales per hour on the phone.

                        To be honest, the Glengarry Glen Ross comment just brought out my snarky side.

                        Some of us are salespeople at our core, and could never see the reason to wait for a chance to make a quick sale. Some of us are marketers, and the sales funnel is what we use. Both are right, depending on the offer, your temperament, ability to accept rejection, size of prospect list, difficulty to get to the main prospect, and more.

                        But in this case, a first call close, is probably the most profitable way.


                        By the way, when selling life insurance in people's homes, it was always a one call close. I tried (at the very beginning) to divide it up into an information gathering meeting, and then a presentation meeting, then a delivery meeting. That's the way I was taught.

                        But I ended up with lots and lots of "we are going to buy someday, just not now. and something has come up" between the first meeting and the second. And multiple follow ups were rarely profitable.

                        So I switched to making an appointment over the phone, and then doing everything in one call. My "sales per prospect" went down slightly. but my "sales per hour" increased dramatically.

                        There is a difference between "waiting for the right time to close" and "putting off the close".

                        Because sometimes, the right time is on the first call. And in this offer, I think it is.

                        I'll now go back to watching my "Death Of A Salesman" Marathon on cable.
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                    • Profile picture of the author socialentry
                      Originally Posted by Jason Kanigan View Post

                      @socialentry, I really do try to help you, not hurt your feelings, and appreciate that you ask questions. Not many people even get that far. Good discussions have come out of those thread-starters.
                      Nah, Jason, I actually really appreciate it. I'd rather have someone tell me what I'm doing wrong then just to spare feelings for the sake of sparing feelings.

                      You're right of course. It's truly a dead end job that I have. I do have something else lined up and I genuinely hope I don't have to stay past September or August.
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  • Profile picture of the author Recruitment Nick
    Claude makes some good points but if you are working for a firm my guess is that you have no decision making powers over lists, etc.

    At this point, it IS a numbers game. I did this for a few months before I got back into recruitment and was good, though not amazing, at it. There were a few things I learned

    1) it IS a numbers game, the more people you speak to the better your chances
    2) Emotional is important, you're right. Laying out the logical argument gets them interested, then you need to find their pain point. If it is simply cost or wanting the latest model then your chances are slim (though not none). Instead leverage that stat you gave on customer service.

    Early on get them to admit that they are not happy with the service they are getting. I changed contract last week because I find EE to be awful at helping me when I had an issue. I was furious with them and left at the earliest opportunity. IF you can get them to think about the problems they have had (it might be reception, replacing a lost phone, problems with billing systems) and show that you are significantly better than the opposition then you are on to a winner. Make them WANT to move by reminding them of the problems they have had.

    Not everyone will have had problems, but many will and have since forgotten about them. Remind them of the pain and anger they felt, show them you are better AND you have a good logical reason to use you.

    This is a low sales closing business, a day I was closing maybe 4 to 5 (or so, worst day was 0, best was 12 iirc) people on the first call (probably around 200 calls a day, though obviously many went to voice mail), so numbers matter. But when you get them to admit their problems, and then sell back their problems with a solution to their emotional AND logical issues, then you have the best chance.

    Many people won't buy over the phone, many people won't want to talk to you. Try not to let them get you down and instead focus on those that DO want your help to solve their pain points. And when you are feeling down remember that your company obviously has good customer service, so that anyone you have sold to isn't just a sales figure, but someone you have actually helped solve a problem. However if you don't believe in what you are selling, move on.

    And as has been said above, confidence in being able to close is key. Assume they will want this, assume that the next step (credit check or what have you) is going to happen, don't be hesitant about it as if you are hesitant then people are unlikely to let you get their financial details over the phone. They CRAVE confidence and belief.
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  • Profile picture of the author Recruitment Nick
    A 2nd thought to help you with confidence. You gave the stat that 83% is the industry average for customer satisfaction. Assuming your percentage is bringing the average up, let's call it 80%. That means 1 in 5 people you pitch are UNHAPPY with their service.

    Speak to 50 people and 10 of them will be looking for a reason to move their provider. Those 10 are your target market.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rearden
    Social:

    How many sales presentations did you make last week?

    Of those you made last week, how many did you close?

    What's your average weekly sales presentation number?

    What's your average weekly close ratio?
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    • Profile picture of the author socialentry
      Originally Posted by Rearden View Post

      Social:

      How many sales presentations did you make last week?

      Of those you made last week, how many did you close?

      What's your average weekly sales presentation number?

      What's your average weekly close ratio?
      66 presentations, closed 8 people. I reach maybe 500-600 decision makers a week so I hang up on a lot of people.

      In average it's around that number, but I've only started keeping stats three weeks ago so the figues varies. And I'm relatively new so I keep tweaking my script and it seems to be improving from week to week. This week is a lot better in perspective.

      Generally, I sell 10 phones to 7-8 people which is slightly above average in sales volume in comparaison to the rest of the room.
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      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
        Originally Posted by socialentry View Post

        66 presentations, closed 8 people. I reach maybe 500-600 decision makers a week so I hang up on a lot of people.

        In average it's around that number, but I've only started keeping stats three weeks ago so the figues varies. And I'm relatively new so I keep tweaking my script and it seems to be improving from week to week. This week is a lot better in perspective.

        Generally, I sell 10 phones to 7-8 people which is slightly above average in sales volume in comparaison to the rest of the room.
        8 sales from 66 cold called presentations? I think that's pretty darn good. I don't know if we (we forum gurus) can improve on that by much. Is there anyone in your company hitting 30% closes? Find out what the best guy is doing, and use that as your ideal to work for. And for being a beginner, I think you're doing well.

        My only thought is to increase the speed you go from call to call. In other words, more calls per hour. And I think that getting more comfortable with the calls may give you a sale or two more a week.

        But, not bad at all. Maybe Jason can add something more. He's the real expert here. (and Ken Michaels, if he's here)

        By the way, you may be able to increase your presentations-per-100 calls....but I don't know if your closing ratio would hold. Sometimes you just spend more time, presenting to people that still won't buy.

        And, if they don't buy...do you do anything with the names? Put them on any kind of an e-mail sequence? Your closing percentage is low enough, that some of these people may come around eventually. Maybe give 100 of them a second call after 3 months, and see if you get a better percentage of those people to buy, than cold calls. I bet you will.

        One of the most valuable things I learned after 35 years of selling, is that the people that almost bought.....have value. In fact, I used to have my sales manager stop by their home a few days after the presentation, for a "customer feedback interview". He could close about half of them..without going through a complete presentation.

        Can you "play manager"? Can you have one of the other reps (or your actual manager) take over the call, if you're real close? Then you can "play manager" for him?

        Another voice, from someone in authority...can work wonders.

        Added a few minutes later; I would keep the numbers of the people that will take your call. That's a much smaller list than the cold call list. So, after you talk to them once.....call them again, every few months, until your results are worse than cold calling. You'll keep adding names to the "People that will talk to me but didn't buy" list. And, that's a good list, I think. You may even (if you can) buy the list, from other reps, of the people who talked to them, but didn't buy. Or you can split any sales from that list. Certainly, get the list of "didn't buy, but will take the call" prospects, when one of the reps quits. Those lists will make you money, I'm pretty sure.
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        • Profile picture of the author Jason Kanigan
          Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

          8 sales from 66 cold called presentations? I think that's pretty darn good. I don't know if we (we forum gurus) can improve on that by much. Is there anyone in your company hitting 30% closes? Find out what the best guy is doing, and use that as your ideal to work for. And for being a beginner, I think you're doing well.

          My only thought is to increase the speed you go from call to call. In other words, more calls per hour. And I think that getting more comfortable with the calls may give you a sale or two more a week.

          But, not bad at all. Maybe Jason can add something more. He's the real expert here. (and Ken Michaels, if he's here)

          By the way, you may be able to increase your presentations-per-100 calls....but I don't know if your closing ratio would hold. Sometimes you just spend more time, presenting to people that still won't buy.

          And, if they don't buy...do you do anything with the names? Put them on any kind of an e-mail sequence? Your closing percentage is low enough, that some of these people may come around eventually. Maybe give 100 of them a second call after 3 months, and see if you get a better percentage of those people to buy, than cold calls. I bet you will.

          One of the most valuable things I learned after 35 years of selling, is that the people that almost bought.....have value. In fact, I used to have my sales manager stop by their home a few days after the presentation, for a "customer feedback interview". He could close about half of them..without going through a complete presentation.

          Can you "play manager"? Can you have one of the other reps (or your actual manager) take over the call, if you're real close? Then you can "play manager" for him?

          Another voice, from someone in authority...can work wonders.
          Basically 1 in 8 closing? For a tough marketplace with a commodity product that's pretty great.

          @socialentry, I know you had to make a ton of dials to get those 60-odd "at bats".

          I would take your skills to a higher-ticket product or service. Even if you close 1 in 10, you will be making SO much more money. But what I suspect will happen, if you are experiencing these numbers now, is that your closing ratio with a better market and product/service will actually increase.
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          • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
            Originally Posted by Jason Kanigan View Post

            Basically 1 in 8 closing? For a tough marketplace with a commodity product that's pretty great.

            @socialentry, I know you have to make a ton of dials to get those 60-odd "at bats".

            I would take your skills to a higher-ticket product or service. Even if you close 1 in 10, you will be making SO much more money. But what I suspect will happen, if you are experiencing these numbers now, is that your closing ratio with a better market and product/service will actually increase.
            That's a Golden piece of advice. A higher ticket sale won't take more calls, more presentations.....but you'll sure make more per sale. And stick with that product. Every time you start over, you lose all your momentum.
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  • Profile picture of the author Underground
    Sometime they seem to want the offer, they want to buy, but they somehow convince themselves out of principle of not buying on the first call. Some even seem to be aware of what is happening and hangup pre-emptively. I get the feeling it's almost like a point of honor for them as if buying now made them gullible or a lesser being,either that or they simply don't trust me enough to part with their money.
    ''Forget people who are interested. Forget the people who get visibly excited at what you offer. Forget putting in the little extra effort to nurture these qualified prospects who just won't buy on the first call, even though they want what you have. Don't be a sissy with no balls.

    F*ck them. They are not your market!

    Move on to the people who will buckle under the pressure of your best high pressure, smooth-talking. macho sales spiel and eventually buy from you due to being worn down.

    (Even though those people will be a very small percentile of people, and you miss out on far more sales)''.


    This is the standard Warrior Forum wisdom and advice.
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  • Profile picture of the author Recruitment Nick
    Underground, from what I read of SocialEntry's posts my guess would be he has no control over the sales funnel, being able to create a more sophisticated system. He is employed to simply call these people and close them over the phone.

    Is there a better method? Probably. But

    a) it is outside of his control
    b) there is an entire industry (with companies that make good money) based upon being able to do all this over the phone, often at 1 touch sales, usually no more than 2 or 3 if they have provisions for call back. My city (Swansea) is famous for having such firms (there's even a reality TV show based on it, though I never watched it as it's meant to be cringeworthy and I hate those sort of shows).

    So not only can it be done, but in the case of his job, I suspect it has to be. Hence advice on how to do so rather than advice on creating better systems.

    I could be wrong and have misread his posts, maybe it's his own business or he has more control. But I suspect not.
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    • Profile picture of the author Underground
      Originally Posted by Recruitment Nick View Post

      Underground, from what I read of SocialEntry's posts my guess would be he has no control over the sales funnel, being able to create a more sophisticated system. He is employed to simply call these people and close them over the phone.

      Is there a better method? Probably. But

      a) it is outside of his control
      b) there is an entire industry (with companies that make good money) based upon being able to do all this over the phone, often at 1 touch sales, usually no more than 2 or 3 if they have provisions for call back. My city (Swansea) is famous for having such firms (there's even a reality TV show based on it, though I never watched it as it's meant to be cringeworthy and I hate those sort of shows).

      So not only can it be done, but in the case of his job, I suspect it has to be. Hence advice on how to do so rather than advice on creating better systems.

      I could be wrong and have misread his posts, maybe it's his own business or he has more control. But I suspect not.
      I see now that is the case. From some of the things he said earlier on I thought he was an independent outfit seeking to undercut big firms.

      If he's forced into one call closing by the company and is not able to send any collateral and schedule a follow up then to get anywhere he just has to tough it out and be on the phone 8 hours a day pitching and looking for the lay-downs and be calling 2-400 people a day. I know you can get sales that way. He would be very unfortunate if he is working for an established corporate company with no sales or marketing procedures beyond a one-call closing strategy.
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  • One solution is closing people with a right-to-cancel within 24 hours.

    Many people go home, and thats when they don't buy. However, if they buy something and can cancel the perspective is that it's already theres, and therefore they reason there decision well.

    Close them with a 'right-to-cancel' within 48 hours - Heard this works
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    • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
      Originally Posted by selfdisciplineacademy View Post

      One solution is closing people with a right-to-cancel within 24 hours.

      Many people go home, and thats when they don't buy. However, if they buy something and can cancel the perspective is that it's already theres, and therefore they reason there decision well.

      Close them with a 'right-to-cancel' within 48 hours - Heard this works
      That's horrible advice.

      That is called pitching a refund, and can land you in the poor house
      faster then you can count to a hundred.

      First and foremost, it is a merchant account killer.

      Second, it always puts you on a razors edge of HAVING to produce
      a certain amount of sales per day or you wind up with more
      money going out then coming in.

      Third, it's bullshit selling ... calling it that is just me being nice.
      In fact it isn't even selling - not by a long shot.
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  • Profile picture of the author SDsurfer
    I like the analogy about the gym. And it's true, you can't MAKE people get motivated. But if you can get them to think it was THEIR OWN IDEA in the first place... that's where the real money is. It's like the movie Inception, you have to plant the idea there in their mind, but in a way that makes them think it was their own idea in the first place. It's hard, and it takes subtlety. I like to ask a lot of questions to do this, and hint, never push.
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