Cold calling - looking for some script feedback

by PJMC
42 replies
Hi,

Any feedback welcome.

SCRIPT:
Good morning / afternoon, is John around please?

John, would I be able to ask you a couple OF QUICK questions?

DO YOU HAVE PERSONAL LIFE INSURANCE AND HAVE YOU HAD IT FOR LONGER THAN A YEAR.

John the reason I asked? There was a massive review of the insurance industry at the end of last year. And as a result 9 out of 10 people in your situation can get far more cover at no extra cost, if they review their policy now.

John, Can I send a letter out to you with a view to reviewing you policy?

I then ask general questions about policy - no more than a minute

You should get this in the post in the next few days, just sign and return it. We will come back to you with the outcome of that review. You're under no obligation to follow thru.

--

My average hit rate is 1 in 8 calls say yes, and I get back a month about 16 letters over 18 working days. Mostly calling small business across the UK with no more than 1 to 5 people working for the company.

Thanks
PJ
#calling #cold #feedback #script
  • Profile picture of the author Mwind076
    SCRIPT:
    Good morning / afternoon, is John around please?

    John, this is Mike with XYZ Insurance, I'm calling because last year there was a review of the insurance industry that we've found allows much more coverage at no extra cost. I'd like to ask a few questions and send you a letter on how we can review your policy. Could I ask you a few questions?

    Yes - proceed
    No - I understand your hesitation, let me send you a brief letter so you can review more information and get back to us.

    I have your address as _____/Can you verify your address for me? (Go ahead and ask if they've had insurance for more than a year, and then ask as many of your other questions as you can slip in while getting the address).

    Great, thanks for your time. You should get this in the post in the next few days, just sign and return it or feel free to give us a call if you have questions. We will come back to you with the outcome of that review. You're under no obligation to follow thru.
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    • Profile picture of the author Underground
      Originally Posted by Mwind076 View Post

      SCRIPT:
      Good morning / afternoon, is John around please?

      John, this is Mike with XYZ Insurance, I'm calling because last year there was a review of the insurance industry that we've found allows much more coverage at no extra cost. I'd like to ask a few questions and send you a letter on how we can review your policy. Could I ask you a few questions?

      Yes - proceed
      No - I understand your hesitation, let me send you a brief letter so you can review more information and get back to us.

      I have your address as _____/Can you verify your address for me? (Go ahead and ask if they've had insurance for more than a year, and then ask as many of your other questions as you can slip in while getting the address).

      Great, thanks for your time. You should get this in the post in the next few days, just sign and return it or feel free to give us a call if you have questions. We will come back to you with the outcome of that review. You’re under no obligation to follow thru.

      Nice and tidy. I like this alot. Only thing I'd do differently is to have done a little research on them beforehand to be able to something personalized and relevant in place that can grab their attention emotionally, and let them know that I've at least checked out their business. Just like in direct marketing, personalization increases response.


      I particularly like this: ''I'd like to ask a few questions and send you a letter on how we can review your policy. Could I ask you a few questions?''

      Although it's frowned upon here and you're likely to be a called a sissy for not going for the close there and then, that statement lets them know up front your intention and very few people would turn down being sent something.

      You diffuse the analysis going on in their head about whether they are about to have some shitty pitch forced on them, right of the bat.

      With the questions segment, if they let you proceed, you can then build interest, desire and give them a call to action to find out more so they'll actually look at your letter and how you can help them.


      This approach is a win/win as you either get to engage them there and then or send a letter if they decline that.

      Great approach.
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  • Originally Posted by PJMC View Post

    Hi,

    Any feedback welcome.

    SCRIPT:
    Good morning / afternoon, is John around please?

    John, would I be able to ask you a couple OF QUICK questions?

    DO YOU HAVE PERSONAL LIFE INSURANCE AND HAVE YOU HAD IT FOR LONGER THAN A YEAR.

    John the reason I asked? There was a massive review of the insurance industry at the end of last year. And as a result 9 out of 10 people in your situation can get far more cover at no extra cost, if they review their policy now.

    John, Can I send a letter out to you with a view to reviewing you policy?

    I then ask general questions about policy - no more than a minute

    You should get this in the post in the next few days, just sign and return it. We will come back to you with the outcome of that review. You’re under no obligation to follow thru.

    --

    My average hit rate is 1 in 8 calls say yes, and I get back a month about 16 letters over 18 working days. Mostly calling small business across the UK with no more than 1 to 5 people working for the company.

    Thanks
    PJ
    I'm admittedly from the other side of the pond, but if that's working for you then I'd stick with it. That said, in the states, this is a great way to get blown off and ignored. Sending stuff in the mail means they're just ignoring you, the key here is to look for appointments. I put a bunch of stuff up on FreeTelemarketingScripts based on stuff I've used that's worked. Your experience might be different, but you'd probably get something out of it.

    The most obvious difference is rarely would we ask for folks by name, just jump into it. For example, "I'm calling you today because I'm helping people that have had life insurance for more than a year get better coverage at better rates. Would you like to find out how much I can help you?" Then go for an appointment. Is that too direct?
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    • Profile picture of the author Underground
      To others who might want to act on the info in this thread. Make what you send them in the mail valuable, if you go that route.

      Here's Sam Oven's on Lumpy Mail. He gives away his exact campaign that accounted for 90% of his sales, and quickly got him up to £50,000 plus a month in consulting gigs.

      Follow people who are successful. MWind script is perfect if you want to call ahead and virtually guarantees most people are going to be open to hearing from you and receiving info.

      It could even fast track the Lumpy Mail method and immediately get you customers.

      http://cashflowconsulting.ontraport....ihx/v4sORGbV2w


      A 1 in 8 hit rate is good, but I'd bet can be greatly improved with Mwind script. Being able to phone them first means that a personalized approach like Sam takes will be much more efficient as you know before hand there is interest.
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      • Profile picture of the author anpharmd09
        Awesome share Underground, thanks for the great resource. I am going to try this particular lumpy mail method in my own business.



        Originally Posted by Underground View Post

        To others who might want to act on the info in this thread. Make what you send them in the mail valuable, if you go that route.

        Here's Sam Oven's on Lumpy Mail. He gives away his exact campaign that accounted for 90% of his sales, and quickly got him up to £50,000 plus a month in consulting gigs.

        Follow people who are successful. MWind script is perfect if you want to call ahead and virtually guarantees most people are going to be open to hearing from you and receiving info.

        It could even fast track the Lumpy Mail method and immediately get you customers.

        Sam Ovens Free Training On Consulting


        A 1 in 8 hit rate is good, but I'd bet can be greatly improved with Mwind script. Being able to phone them first means that a personalized approach like Sam takes will be much more efficient as you know before hand there is interest.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mwind076
    I didn't change the "send mail" part because he didn't ask us to. If what the OP is doing is getting him results, then by all means...don't change it. There also isn't really a "close" here, nor was I going for the kill. Could we get the close in one call on this? Of course, but this basic approach allows him to learn and change. The OP can throw in a few trials of "I'd like to ask you a few questions and then show you how we can get you more coverage." He can try it on that call, or even do it via email, with setting up a call back for the close (an appt), etc. There are many ways to go, and much room for improvement. It's also not a free service to write scripts I was just doing what he asked and critiquing THIS script.
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    • Profile picture of the author Underground
      Originally Posted by Mwind076 View Post

      I didn't change the "send mail" part because he didn't ask us to. If what the OP is doing is getting him results, then by all means...don't change it. There also isn't really a "close" here, nor was I going for the kill. Could we get the close in one call on this? Of course, but this basic approach allows him to learn and change. The OP can throw in a few trials of "I'd like to ask you a few questions and then show you how we can get you more coverage." He can try it on that call, or even do it via email, with setting up a call back for the close (an appt), etc. There are many ways to go, and much room for improvement. It's also not a free service to write scripts I was just doing what he asked and critiquing THIS script.
      The great thing about the way you've structured it is that if they do let you proceed, you can see if they are right to and want to be closed there and then if it's a simple sell and that can be done. If not, you get pitch them via other means as they prefer, so you cover all angles with very little waste, or having to pick either/or.
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  • Profile picture of the author Matthew North
    So you are sending letters and stuff in the mail to unqualified people. Saying yes is the easiest way of them getting you off the phone and on to what you are doing. You don't need to try and close the deal right then, at the mininum ask them a few questions to see if they could actually use or benefit from what you are selling. This saves you from calling people back that don't want it, people that have trouble saying no.. which is far more than you'd think. You save your own time and focus on the people who really want and can afford what you are selling.

    You have a higher chance of getting a meeting then when you're on he phone with them.. talking about their needs and selling as you are going along.. they are 'in heat', in a buying mode. Once they recieve whatever you are sending the desire to buy would have completely vanished.
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    • Profile picture of the author Underground
      Originally Posted by Matthew North View Post

      So you are sending letters and stuff in the mail to unqualified people. Saying yes is the easiest way of them getting you off the phone and on to what you are doing. You don't need to try and close the deal right then, at the mininum ask them a few questions to see if they could actually use or benefit from what you are selling. This saves you from calling people back that don't want it, people that have trouble saying no.. which is far more than you'd think. You save your own time and focus on the people who really want and can afford what you are selling.

      You have a higher chance of getting a meeting then when you're on he phone with them.. talking about their needs and selling as you are going along.. they are 'in heat', in a buying mode. Once they recieve whatever you are sending the desire to buy would have completely vanished.
      Please stop pushing that nonsense. In nearly every professional B2B company there are a lot of touches before a buyer buys. It's well documented that many don't buy on the first call, but that number keeps going up with each touch over multiple channels.

      You advocate giving up on anyone who doesn't buy or agree to a meeting now. It's terrible advice and will cause people a lot of lost sales. This place should be about sharing how people can find the best methods to help people not personal biased misinformation that is just your preferred way of doing things because you had a background in telemarketing.

      If you trigger their 'telemarketer reflex', they want to get you off the phone any which way, but if you mention sending info before they are even scrambling around to get you off the phone it's not a brush of and they'll be far more consistent. It's not the same thing as a brush off. Most people need a variety of touches to get to know you, your company, the opportunity and how it benefits them if you are selling the kind of services most do here.

      You're a telemarketer who can sit there all day phoning people for 8 hours to sell one or two things maybe. Mobile sites or whatever it is.

      Not many business owners would be able to sustain that and run their business and do all the other stuff. Or be cut out for that.

      Getting them to receive the letter, if you can't get them to get an appointment, or even a sale, there and then, and then following up on that letter with a call and email is around 5 touches. The success rate of people buying on the 5th touch is proven far higher than on the first one.

      Mike Cooch, who got his operation upto $150,000 a month uses that kind of multi-channel approach with lumpy mail and phone calls and emails, in what he calls the chase formula.

      Sam Ovens $50,000 a month with lumpy mail and follow up email and calls.

      Sooo many other examples I can site. Why do you keep opposing that and pushing a false economy method that seems to pay immediate dividends because you might get a few sales a week by only ever calling someone once, when if you did follow up in multi-touch, multi-channel you'd make more sales without needing to spend 8 hours on the phone each day speed dialing numbers?

      Actually, here's Mike talking about the system he uses. ''You need a sales and prospecting system that is worked day in day out.''

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syK_BzB7_Ds#t=101
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  • Profile picture of the author PJMC
    Thanks for your replies, If i could ask any other people that feel like posting to hold back, until i have replied in detail to these posters and added some additional inform.

    Regards PJ
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    • Profile picture of the author PJMC
      'Mwind' - Thanks for your take on my script, I agree with 'Underground' that this is a tidy script and will try this out. 'Undergound' I have limited information on the company, I.E if they are the owner manager, just manager etc and what services the company provides. Some times i have their personal address and sometimes i have the business address.'Matthew North' I will provide you with more information below, maybe this will give you a different take on your reply.

      Firstly I always ask if this is a bad time, if they say yes, I just say i will call back.
      If they say no, i thank them and proceed.

      My role with in the business, is to call people I have never spoken to before, then try and get as much general information over the phone.

      I.E Who they have insurance with and how long they have had it, if its a single or joint policy, if joint get the other persons name, the amount of cover / term, there home address if registered there, most are as the policy is personal, if they smoke or not, email address mobile, DOB and best time to call in the future.

      On 80% of calls I manage to get that information, and if i have an email address i send this email:

      Dear,
      Thank you for taking the time to talk to me today.

      As discussed over the telephone, we are running a very successful campaign to review existing life assurance policies with no cost or obligation and our clients are benefitting from some outstanding results. The quicker we get the completed form back, the quicker we can get the review underway and come back to you with the outcome of the review.

      I have arranged for one of my colleagues to give you a call in a couple of weeks and sent a letter by post as discussed.

      Any information given to us by you is kept private and confidential and there is no obligation to follow through with anything.
      Please do not hesitate to contact me if I can be of any further assistance.
      Regards,

      If we dont get the letter back with in two weeks, then a follow up call is made by the insurance broker, not me. My job is to warm the lead up, not to close.

      'Mwind' I dont tend to send letters out, if I dont have at least 80% of the information, so the 'No' part of your script will work well if i have the home address and they are willing to provide some other details etc.

      I am always calm and relaxed with the people I speak to, and very clear with my tone so people can understand me first time.

      I hope this give you a better understanding of what i do and how i go about it, would like to thank you all for your input and I will try and respond to your comments as i have done today.

      regards

      PJ
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      • Profile picture of the author Mwind076
        Originally Posted by PJMC View Post


        Firstly I always ask if this is a bad time, if they say yes, I just say i will call back.
        If they say no, i thank them and proceed.
        STOP doing that asap. Here's why. If they are talking to you, then they have time. You talk to them, engage them (don't just mindlessly read your script or ramble), and they will talk with you. IF they are busy, or if this isn't a good time, they wouldn't have taken a call, picked up the phone, or they will say "this isn't a good time, can you call back/email/mail me something." IF they say that, you simply say "sure, what's your email address?" then get it and say "how about I follow up on Tuesday at 4pm?" Or just let them lead you to a day and time. Is it a blow off - sometimes, but sometimes they are just busy and they'll tell you.

        You don't ASK if it's a bad time, because you're putting it in their head and giving them an out right when you've gotten them on the phone.

        There are others that disagree with this, but in over a decade I've never asked anyone if it's a bad time...or a good time. We just talk.
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        • Profile picture of the author PJMC
          Originally Posted by Mwind076 View Post

          STOP doing that asap. Here's why. If they are talking to you, then they have time. You talk to them, engage them (don't just mindlessly read your script or ramble), and they will talk with you.
          Appreciate your take on this, the reason I find it works for me is, most of the businesses I call have less than 5 people in, or even just one. They answer the phone as they perceive it as potential business and may well have stopped what they are doing for that reason. Quite often I get the reply that they are with a client or in the middle of a job for a client. I say, no worries I understand, when is good time to call back? and I am often thanked for understanding their situation and offered a better time to contact them. Even if this happens a couple of times on the occasion they are not busy I get there full attention because I have respected their previous requests.

          My script is there as a guide, to help me stay relaxed and focus on what the customer is saying, a route map if you like, so I always sound confident and get the key points across.

          I would like to thank you all for your help, and look forward to many more chats and interesting ideas or challenges to the status quo!

          Regards
          PJ
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          • just an idea.

            works for me

            when you get prospect on the phone

            "sounds like I caught you at a bad time?"

            most of the time they say " no, whats this about"

            response - "I'll take 60 seconds to tell you why I called, and you tell me if you'd like to continue, sound good?"

            do not go past 60 seconds!

            they can't then say they have no time,
            you showed respect for their time and empathy of biz. owner position,
            and you maintain control

            hope this helps
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            • Profile picture of the author PJMC
              Thanks for your reply

              Regards

              PJ
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  • Profile picture of the author misterme
    Originally Posted by Underground View Post

    Please stop pushing that nonsense. In nearly every professional B2B company there are a lot of touches before a buyer buys. It's well documented that many don't buy on the first call, but that number keeps going up with each touch over multiple channels.

    You advocate giving up on anyone who doesn't buy or agree to a meeting now. It's terrible advice and will cause people a lot of lost sales.
    Not to agree or disagree with you but just as a point of information, how does that reconciliate with the seemingly successful concept of "high probability prospecting" which does advocate finding only the prospects motivated to buy right now? That's what it looks like Matthew North is advocating.

    Because I don't see where Matthew North said anything "giving up." He's saying this is a way to save your time and effort in not following up bad prospects in the following days after the call, spinning wheels putting stuff together to send them, spending time calling them, trying to get them on the phone...

    ...but that's a different matter then calling again perhaps three months or six months later to see if their circumstances have changed where maybe now they're in the market ready to buy.

    In which case, that kind of tickler file system is certainly not anywhere near "giving up."
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by misterme View Post

      Not to agree or disagree with you but just as a point of information, how does that reconciliate with the seemingly successful concept of "high probability prospecting" which does advocate finding only the prospects motivated to buy right now? That's what it looks like Matthew North is advocating.
      Another step in the High Probability approach, when the prospect says "We're not really interested", the salesperson says "You mean not now, or not ever?".

      This separates the people who are truly not prospects at all, from those that are not prospects today.


      I actually had a guy ask me that recently. I was so taken aback by his candor, that I asked him more about what he was selling. It's a great question to ask. "Not now, or not ever?"
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      • Profile picture of the author Underground
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        Another step in the High Probability approach, when the prospect says "We're not really interested", the salesperson says "You mean not now, or not ever?".

        This separates the people who are truly not prospects at all, from those that are not prospects today.


        I actually had a guy ask me that recently. I was so taken aback by his candor, that I asked him more about what he was selling. It's a great question to ask. "Not now, or not ever?"

        Claude, did you ever sell a vacuum cleaner by going door to door and saying ''Hi we sell vacuums cleaners, would you be interested in knowing more? Would you like to a see presentation on how they can help you? OK, great. Well, they come in 2 colours. Green and Red. Have you had issues with dust build up in your home? How does that make you feel. Well, these vacuum cleaners will eliminate that, blah,blah, blah. They cost $230 and will last you 5 years. Full 5 year warranty. If you give me your credit card details and $230 I'll have one sent over to you within 2 working days. Which one do you want, the Red or the Green one.''

        Did you sell them like that in the first call, in the first 2 minutes. Or did you seek to gain a real presentation where they could get to know you for a few hours, get to see in fuller detail then then the scenario above where they'd get to see how it could help them. In other words, you found out whether they'd be interested into looking into it further, and if they was, that is where the specially crafted selling process would begin.

        Could you have skipped the inhouse presentation and just did that all on the phone or by simply describing to them verbally and still got anywhere near the success rate you did?

        With your marketing business, how many people have you rang up out of the blue, who didn't know and sold them on 1000's of $'s worth of marketing on the spot without them needing to consider or see anything else, just because your tie-downs were so strong they couldn't resist? If you ever did it that way, how does that compare to the building your authority status, writing books and getting presentations where you get a load of people in the room for a few hours and sell them from the stage when they are fully warmed up and all their buying criteria met.

        It really looks like you often try to push the one call cold calling side, rather than how you actually do things, where the first step is just to get their interest to know more and to get them into your funnel. Whether that funnel is a two hour demo in their home or a seminar from the stage.

        These people are ready to buy. Just not in the first two minutes in most cases. Maybe in the next, few hours yes for way more people.

        You may not see it because you just assume the rest of the process as a given since it comes so naturally now, but this is the definition of 'high probability selling' here: if they don't show they are ready to buy in the first 2 minutes (the brief verbal description stage), you put them in the excel spreadsheet column where all the rest of the prospects are that you'll call back in a few months and move on to people who will buy in the first two minutes with just a quick description of what you do.

        This is what gets taught here to people for the most part and which you often seem to endorse.

        Why is that?
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        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
          Originally Posted by Underground View Post

          With your marketing business, how many people have you rang up out of the blue, who didn't know and sold them on 1000's of $'s worth of marketing on the spot without them needing to consider or see anything else, just because your tie-downs were so strong they couldn't resist? If you ever did it that way, how does that compare to the building your authority status, writing books and getting presentations where you get a load of people in the room for a few hours and sell them from the stage when they are fully warmed up and all their buying criteria met.
          Cold calls? To people who never heard of me? I close half for $6,000. But this isn't over the phone. I call on the phone, and make an appointment. This is a one call close on an appointment, just like I teach.

          Originally Posted by Underground View Post

          It really looks like you often try to push the one call cold calling side, rather than how you actually do things, where the first step is just to get their interest to know more and to get them into your funnel. Whether that funnel is a two hour demo in their home or a seminar from the stage.

          These people are ready to buy. Just not in the first two minutes in most cases. Maybe in the next, few hours yes for way more people.

          Somehow, someone is not communicating well.

          I teach cold calling as one method of prospecting. I've done it extensively in the past, and know how it works. Depending on the purpose of the call, and the product sold, this can be an immediate sale, or a sale made later by appointment.

          When I sold in people's homes, I made one call to get an appointment. Then I made one presentation to get the sale. That's two calls.

          What I did not do, was call them over and over again...to make an appointment....and then call them over and over again, after the presentation. There isn't anything terribly wrong with making additional calls to the same person, but it may not be as profitable as just calling new people.

          Although, the last few years, I found that seeing people that someone else almost sold, paid off quite well.

          The High Probability Selling method is to call for an appointment, and then go on the appointment. That's two separate calls. But it isn't 20 separate calls. That's a marketing funnel. And it doesn't have to be "one call, and close them right them on the phone"

          If I were selling insurance (in person), I'd call for an appointment, then go on the appointment to present.

          If I were selling it long distance, I'd call to see if they were likely to buy from me, and then either talk to them right then, or make an appointment for later.

          Some products/services have to be presented/demonstrated. Some do not. Insurance doesn't, for example. Some products can be sold in one 5 minute call over the phone, some can't (and it would be silly to try)

          Personally, I want the prospect as qualified as possible, before I talk to them. I may (If I were doing this) call them, get them to a webinar, and then have them contact me for a consultation. Those leads would be worth their weight in gold. Or maybe I wouldn't call them at all at first, just do PPC marketing to gather the leads of people who were already thinking about insurance.

          The OP's method (assisted by Mwind) sounds pretty solid to me.

          But the salesman in me might want a little more interest before I mailed them anything.

          May I make a suggestion? Be nicer.
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          • Profile picture of the author Underground
            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

            Cold calls? To people who never heard of me? I close half for $6,000. But this isn't over the phone. I call on the phone, and make an appointment. This is a one call close on an appointment, just like I teach.




            Somehow, someone is not communicating well.

            I teach cold calling as one method of prospecting. I've done it extensively in the past, and know how it works. Depending on the purpose of the call, and the product sold, this can be an immediate sale, or a sale made later by appointment.

            When I sold in people's homes, I made one call to get an appointment. Then I made one presentation to get the sale. That's two calls.

            What I did not do, was call them over and over again...to make an appointment....and then call them over and over again, after the presentation.

            Although, the last few years, I found that seeing people that someone else almost sold, paid off quite well.

            The High Probability Selling method is to call for an appointment, and then go on the appointment. That's two separate calls. But it isn't 20 separate calls. That's a marketing funnel. And it doesn't have to be "one call, and close them right them on the phone"

            If I were selling insurance (in person), I'd call for an appointment, then go on the appointment to present.

            If I were selling it long distance, I'd call to see if they were likely to buy from me, and then either talk to them right then, or make an appointment for later.

            Some products/services have to be presented/demonstrated. Some do not. Insurance doesn't, for example. Some products can be sold in one 5 minute call over the phone, some can't (and it would be silly to try)

            Personally, I want the prospect as qualified as possible, before I talk to them. I may (If I were doing this) call them, get them to a webinar, and then have them contact me for a consultation. Those leads would be worth their weight in gold. Or maybe I wouldn't call them at all at first, just do PPC marketing to gather the leads of people who were already thinking about insurance.

            The OP's method (assisted by Mwind) sounds pretty solid to me.

            But the salesman in me might want a little more interest before I mailed them anything.

            May I make a suggestion? Be nicer. It's why people are ignoring you. At least, it's why I was.


            Firstly, to be honest I'm past concerns about being nice and kowtowing to people here who have positioned themselves as experts yet give bad advice or at least incomplete advice. In my view, if you are going to set yourself as an expert dispensing advice then at least make sure that what you teach people is going to make them money and help them advance quicker. I'm not implying you here. To many people have mistaken the specialized role of the Closer, who in most organizations only engages with leads after they have gone through the funnel, as being the sole way to get business. As if there is nothing more than getting on the phone to a complete stranger and closing them there and then or they aren't worth the time.

            The reason I post is to challenge some of the stuff here that influential people pass on to newbs that misleads a lot of them, often those with something to sell. That misinfo causes a lot of misery and costs people thousands and so wasted time. It's not really that hard to teach people the reality and how to really craft a sales process that lets you take advantage of lay downs and profit from those, who are more reticent for whatever reason, but who might respond to the third letter.

            I need to be forthright in challenging stuff like that or the people I intend to reach won't pay attention. Plus it just pisses me off. Stuff like ''if they don't agree their and then' they'll lose all desire. Don't bother following up''. I've become just as contemptuous towards those giving poor advice as they are to other successful methods that aren't their personal preferred ones.

            So yes, in terms of what you do to get clients, you do a lot of things. The ideal is to get straight to those people who will buy, the laydowns. And to have a short as sales cycle as possible. If you're luck enough to have a full pipeline everyday of eager people to pitch then you are very fortunate. For most other people, they are going to have be far more persistent to get success if they know they are targeting the right people.

            Ideally, if we send out direct mail, everyone will respond on the first one. But many millions of dollars could testify that if you've targeted right, you can see similar response rates on the second and third letter.

            If it was so easy to close half of 6000 grand on cold calls for your business, then yes, sit there all day and just go for those who would buy. We both know that is extremely rare.

            Here's the point. If someone did show interest, but didn't want to buy there and then, and didn't want to jump on an appointment right away, but wanted some info, would it be wise to cut them off and not send them anything and follow up and take the gamble of going and making another 100 calls to find a 'high probability prospect', rather than just matching their pace, not assuming they've brushed you off, and sending that info and following up.

            The choice is, send another email with some powerful copy and persuasive info and call them a few days later, if they've engages with your stuff (which you can track with online tools), or ring hundreds more people looking for sure things.

            It's a bad assumption to make that anyone wanting more than 2 touches is brushing you offer, in anything more than simple sales.
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  • Profile picture of the author Underground
    This is what you guys call it? High probability prospecting? Ring hundreds of people a day to find the .5 to 1% who have a high probability of buying there and then. Yet ignore the 10-20% who have interest, need, budget etc and would buy if you had a decent sales process in place that matched their buying process and successfully addressed their buying criteria.

    Originally Posted by misterme View Post

    Not to agree or disagree with you but just as a point of information, how does that reconciliate with the seemingly successful concept of "high probability prospecting" which does advocate finding only the prospects motivated to buy right now? That's what it looks like Matthew North is advocating.

    Because I don't see where Matthew North said anything "giving up." He's saying this is a way to save your time and effort in not following up bad prospects in the following days after the call, spinning wheels putting stuff together to send them, spending time calling them, trying to get them on the phone...

    ...but that's a different matter then calling again perhaps three months or six months later to see if their circumstances have changed where maybe now they're in the market ready to buy.

    In which case, that kind of tickler file system is certainly not anywhere near "giving up."

    I knew I should have highlighted the specific part I was addressing, which was:

    You have a higher chance of getting a meeting then when you're on he phone with them.. talking about their needs and selling as you are going along.. they are 'in heat', in a buying mode. Once they recieve whatever you are sending the desire to buy would have completely vanished

    This is the complete opposite of the successful B2B buying cycle for most business. Where the first call is usually just the start of the sales process that could be up to 7 touches or more and include webinars, trials, reading articles and PDF's, having consultations and reviewing proposals, before the efforts pay off.

    It isn't always that convoluted, but since most B2B go through a cycle with at least a few of those elements, it's safe to say that the idea of if they are not closed on a meeting or sales there and then, while they are supposedly ''in heat'', their desire will evaporate, is nonsense. The biggest studies done on the subject, and case studies from nearly any company or organization about their successful sales processes, prove otherwise.


    They aren't getting .5 success rates by trying to find buyer there or then or if not logging there details and calling them a few months later. They get far higher success rates because they properly match the buying cycle of their buyers and don't suffer from some hair-trigger impulse to need to close or make a sale there and then because that matches their preferred 'selling cycle' and impatience.
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    • Profile picture of the author misterme
      Originally Posted by Underground View Post

      This is what you guys call it? High probability prospecting? Ring hundreds of people a day to find the .5 to 1% who have a high probability of buying there and then. Yet ignore the 10-20% who have interest, need, budget etc and would buy if you had a decent sales process in place that matched their buying process and successfully addressed their buying criteria.
      No, that's what those guys call it. Here, let me google it for you.

      I don't think you should ignore the 20% who may buy later either. Yet, if you have a high ticket item and that 1% who are ready now puts a high pay off, and quicker turnaround, in your pocket (following up on the 20% later in time), then you've streamlined your time to get the highest fastest reward for hours invested.

      If on the other hand you spend a great deal of time every day working on that 20% who aren't going to buy right now or tomorrow, then you've basically involved yourself investing your time with a lesser slower probable payoff.
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      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
        Originally Posted by misterme View Post

        No, that's what those guys call it. Here, let me google it for you.

        I don't think you should ignore the 20% who may buy later either. Yet, if you have a high ticket item and that 1% who are ready now puts a high pay off, and quicker turnaround, in your pocket (following up on the 20% later in time), then you've streamlined your time to get the highest fastest reward for hours invested.

        If on the other hand you spend a great deal of time every day working on that 20% who aren't going to buy right now or tomorrow, then you've basically involved yourself investing your time with a lesser slower probable payoff.
        Everyone in sales should buy the book. You can buy used copies on Amazon for practically nothing. The prospecting section is very helpful.
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      • Profile picture of the author Underground
        Originally Posted by misterme View Post

        No, that's what those guys call it. Here, let me google it for you.

        I don't think you should ignore the 20% who may buy later either. Yet, if you have a high ticket item and that 1% who are ready now puts a high pay off, and quicker turnaround, in your pocket (following up on the 20% later in time), then you've streamlined your time to get the highest fastest reward for hours invested.

        If on the other hand you spend a great deal of time every day working on that 20% who aren't going to buy right now or tomorrow, then you've basically involved yourself investing your time with a lesser slower probable payoff.

        I knew the idea behind it. If I didn't it wouldn't piss me off so much. False logic, when it's used to entirely dismiss everything else, tends to do that to me. I was more trying to point out it is a misnomer. A kind of oxymoron.

        For example, from that article you linked:

        Don't waste time with low probability prospects

        If the prospect says "no," you say "Okay, good bye." Wait for them to say "good bye," hang up, and immediately dial the next one on your list.

        If the prospect says "Yes," you say "Why?" If they have a good reason, make an appointment. If they are only "interested", don't. Remember not to use the word "interested" in your offer, since "interested" implies a lack of commitment and a low probability of buying

        If a prospect wants you to send literature, get their email address and send a standard file with a standard cover note. Don’t put anything in the mail. Call back within 5 days and present a different prospecting offer for the same product or service.

        Do not leave voice mails. You will sell less and add to your frustration if you do.

        Probability is defined as high probability to buy right away, not probability of the percentage of people in a certain group likely to buy what you offer. An important distinction because it then advocates ignoring up to 19% of prospects who could easily become customers. So flawed in logic that it's complete moronic. It' suggests looking for the 1% who want what you have now. Yet, still following up with those who don't fit that one percent with another proposition.


        Dan Kennedy has been known to say that if you buy a list of 2000 of your ideal prospects, and market to them in a three step sequence, you'll make all the money you need or something like that. He's an advocate anyway.

        Why is that? Because although, say, 1% of that two thousand is ready to buy there and then, research shows that around 10% to 20% have interest and need and will likely buy as some point if you have a good sales system in place, a great offer and great product.

        So if you're product makes you a $1000 profit, and you only target the 1 percent, you'll make $20k in profit. If you also target the 19% consistently till they are ready to buy you'll make $400,000 profit.

        You'll have to contact 40,000 people in order to make $400,000 instead of just 2000. And that won't be cheap and will take a hell of a lot of time.

        It's a misnomer because you should directed your sales process to the 20% (the higher % of people who will likely buy at some point ) versus 1% (the lower percentage).


        Just because they'll buy right now, the guys in that article would pass up far greater profit potential for short term gain.

        It's outdated nonsense from short-sighted people.
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        • Profile picture of the author misterme
          Originally Posted by Underground View Post

          For example, from that article you linked:
          I didn't link any article. I linked to the results of a Google search.

          Originally Posted by Underground View Post

          So flawed in logic that it's complete moronic.
          Actually sir, the flaw in logic appears to be on your part. You're ignoring the time factor as well as that High Probability Prospecting doesn't say NOT to keep getting back to that alleged 19%.

          You have 2,000 people to call...

          (By the way, Dan Kennedy doesn't spend time on the phone calling people, he's already minimized his prospecting time down to nil by not needing to devote man hours at all to the task of speaking personally to each and every person on that 2,000 member list. But if you're going to call 2,000 people, that takes some time. I think we can agree that takes time. Even so, with DK's three touches, it's still only three times the prospects are being gotten back to and that 19% would need to buy before the three touches are done so there's still a time factor at play here)

          The question then becomes: how long do you want it to take you to earn that total $400,000 from the combined 1% of buyers and the 19% group of "later" buyers?

          Plan A. And let's assume you're able to get everyone on the phone when you call to keep this simple. All 2,000 prospects. You get to engage each one.

          You speak to 100 people a day. So in 20 days you worked through the list.

          The only people who bought of course were the ones ready to buy the day you called. No one buys if they're not ready, so it's always that 1%. Everyone else you'll need to follow up with.

          So it took you 20 days to go through the list, you had 2,000 conversations and you sold that 1%, with plans to get back to the others.

          Assuming your example of selling a product with a $1,000 profit...

          You made $20K in 20 days.

          Plan B. Again, assuming you get to speak to everyone you call.

          Now let's say instead you ONLY speak to the ones buying today, cut all other conversations short and get back to the non-buyers after you've gone through the list once. And you keep repeating that pattern until you've worked through that 19% group and catch them when they're ready to buy, when they become that 1%.

          So say speaking only to people buying today, only engaging them and them alone, that 1%, say it takes 4 days to work through the list because you only had 200 conversations you put time into instead of 2,000.

          But now you made that same $20K in 4 days, didn't you? Because it took only 4 days to find that 1% instead of 20 days.

          $20K in 20 days vs. $20K in 4 days.

          Of course I don't know if it takes 4 days or 20 days but reason dictates it takes much more time to speak to 2,000 people than it does to speak to 200 people. What would that be? Maybe 10 times longer?

          (If so then maybe my example should be 40 days to speak to 2,000 people instead of 20 days. So maybe it's 40 days to make $20K vs. making $20K in 4 days.)

          I'm not any math wizard but it seems to me that the return is greater once we take into account the time factor.
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          • Profile picture of the author Underground
            Originally Posted by misterme View Post

            I didn't link any article. I linked to the results of a Google search.



            Actually sir, the flaw in logic appears to be on your part. You're ignoring the time factor as well as that High Probability Prospecting doesn't say NOT to keep getting back to that alleged 19%.

            You have 2,000 people to call...

            (By the way, Dan Kennedy doesn't spend time on the phone calling people, he's already minimized his prospecting time down to nil by not needing to devote man hours at all to the task of speaking personally to each and every person on that 2,000 member list. But if you're going to call 2,000 people, that takes some time. I think we can agree that takes time. Even so, with DK's three touches, it's still only three times the prospects are being gotten back to and that 19% would need to buy before the three touches are done so there's still a time factor at play here)

            The question then becomes: how long do you want it to take you to earn that total $400,000 from the combined 1% of buyers and the 19% group of "later" buyers?

            Plan A. And let's assume you're able to get everyone on the phone when you call to keep this simple. All 2,000 prospects. You get to engage each one.

            You speak to 100 people a day. So in 20 days you worked through the list.

            The only people who bought of course were the ones ready to buy the day you called. No one buys if they're not ready, so it's always that 1%. Everyone else you'll need to follow up with.

            So it took you 20 days to go through the list, you had 2,000 conversations and you sold that 1%, with plans to get back to the others.

            Assuming your example of selling a product with a $1,000 profit...

            You made $20K in 20 days.

            Plan B. Again, assuming you get to speak to everyone you call.

            Now let's say instead you ONLY speak to the ones buying today, cut all other conversations short and get back to the non-buyers after you've gone through the list once. And you keep repeating that pattern until you've worked through that 19% group and catch them when they're ready to buy, when they become that 1%.

            So say speaking only to people buying today, only engaging them and them alone, that 1%, say it takes 4 days to work through the list because you only had 200 conversations you put time into instead of 2,000.

            But now you made that same $20K in 4 days, didn't you? Because it took only 4 days to find that 1% instead of 20 days.

            $20K in 20 days vs. $20K in 4 days.

            Of course I don't know if it takes 4 days or 20 days but reason dictates it takes much more time to speak to 2,000 people than it does to speak to 200 people. What would that be? Maybe 10 times longer?

            (If so then maybe my example should be 40 days to speak to 2,000 people instead of 20 days. So maybe it's 40 days to make $20K vs. making $20K in 4 days.)

            I'm not any math wizard but it seems to me that the return is greater once we take into account the time factor.
            If I seem rude to you personally on this it is not intended, by the way. I strongly oppose the argument itself, and people dismissing others sales processes, but don't mean to appear contemptuous to you.

            I used Dan Kennedy and the dunning letter stats of around 20% of the list buying after three just to show there was some evidence of around 10-20% of a demographic being ready to by, but not all straight away.

            There are many practitioners of high prob prospecting on this place. Rarely do I see the experienced ones post a 1 in 100 success rate. Matthew once told me he's on the phone 8 hours a day to get 1 or 2 sales. Newbs who get into the John Durham thing can make up to thousands of calls with no success.

            Many people just hate telemarketers and shut down. If you have a pitch like the OP's, which gets 10% wanting to see more info, and 90% discounting themselves, or an approach like Mwinds, which I think would bump that number, you'll find that 10-20% straight away and still get to pitch the laydowns when you know you've found them.

            The difference is engaging them, like Mwind and the OP do, in a non-telemarketer way. Therefore not turning of people unnecessarily who could become buyers.

            Having a sales process in place to sell them, which isn't random but structured based on how you know your customers to by and all the info they need to do that and has a set time frame, and which can be tracked so you can see who opens your email, how long they read your landing pages and watch your videos or webinar, interact with your trial offer, you don't have to waste time.

            You're not following up with 80% of people who won't buy. You've already eliminated them, you're only marketing to the ones who are at least in the market for what you offer and can be persuaded.

            It's too late and I've had too little sleep to understand the maths in your argument, but I do know that any belief that the high probability stuff is more efficient and more profitable is an illusion.
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            • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
              Originally Posted by Underground View Post

              I used Dan Kennedy and the dunning letter stats of around 20% of the list buying after three just to show there was some evidence of around 10-20% of a demographic being ready to by, but not all straight away.
              I'm familiar with the Kennedy model. The percentages you gave (if they came from Kennedy) are for mailings to a very select list of previous buyers from Glazer-Kennedy. These are not phone calls, and they are not to a cold list.

              I can give you real life results, and they fit perfectly with what Kennedy (and his herd of mini-gurus) experience.

              In a market that has never heard of you, and has never bought from you....it will work something like this; (These numbers are in direct mail, not phone calls, but there should be a parallel of principles).

              If you are a guru, sending sales letters to a niche....the total percentage that will buy from you eventually, tops at about 5%. meaning that about 5% will buy, given a good enough reason, after multiple attempts...under ideal conditions.

              Remember, this is a cold list, in a niche. A list of your current buyers may give you 10-20% eventually. But we are talking about a cold list.

              You may get a 1% response on the first mailing. Of the 99% that didn't buy, another mailing will typically give you half of the result you got from your first mailing.

              Kennedy talks about a 3 mailing sequence. But that's not what he does. That's not what I do either. That's not what his following of mini-gurus do either. What do we do? We keep mailing until the response stops generating a profit. Then we stop.

              And typically, the response may be 1% (which can vary dramatically, but 1% is on the high end). Then typically, you'll get half of that result for the next several mailings.

              So we may get the 5%. But that's not the question.

              The question is, how big is the list? Because we won't get the same result from our second mailing, as we got from our first. We will get a lower result. Typically half.

              It may still be profitable to send repeated mailings. But do you know what's even more profitable? Mailing to new names. And you keep mailing to new names, until you run out of names, and then you re-mail to the list of people who didn't buy.

              In the case of large mailers, they mail to the list of people that didn't buy..until it no longer is profitable (results go down with each mailing, in multiple mailings, not up. Ever) and they also mail to new people...because both mailings are profitable. That's what Kennedy does.

              So, what has this got to do with cold calling on the phone?

              Well.....

              Phone calls take time. Mailings do not.
              And, if you know...after making hundreds of calls (or thousands, in my case) That you'll get an appointment every six calls (my average with in house monitored telemarketers), if you talk to the business owner...on the first call....you can create usable figures for a formula. If I called personally, it was a bit higher.

              If I get people that say "Not now, but maybe later"...and we keep calling them back, my number of appointments per call (to that list) very quickly sinks to;

              Second call to same prospect; one in 15...
              next calls...one in 46....
              next calls...one in 70.
              I stopped at the 4th call.

              Yes, I actually tested this once about 12 years ago, when I started trying to use the names of people who didn't make an appointment, and who didn't buy. I did this once, over a 90 day period. And that was enough for me. I used in house telemarketers,

              Why the sharp decline after each call? Because the people who would never make an appointment with me...were still on my list to call.

              And their percentage (the non-appointment makers) of the list, keeps growing. Until I'm really just calling the... "I'm never going to make an appointment with you ever" list.

              So....calling a list, over and over, will increase your results-per-name. But the results will grow slower with each successive call. And that growth curve drops off sharply after the first call.

              Now...would it be worth mailing them? Maybe. Because mailing doesn't take time. As long as it generates some profit...keep doing it. E-mailing the "non-appointment prospects" would be worth while, I would think. Send them to a website, a webinar? E-mail? Sure.

              But the reason I only call once (assuming contact with a viable prospect), is because my results dwindle by half, if I call them again (actually slightly more than half). So...I just call new names.

              We were just talking about making an appointment, not trying to sell on that first call. Although the results would be similar, just as the results of a direct sales letter would decline with repetition.

              As far as multiple calls after a presentation? Again, I don't do it. But I know it's profitable. Especially, if you are calling the people who didn't buy...from an incompetent salesperson. Those leads are gold.


              And phone calls to people who saw a presentation, but didn't buy? Those calls are worth making. Because a person who was qualified to see a presentation (in any form), and now, knows who you are, is very likely to buy eventually..from someone. You may get 10%-30% to buy from you eventually, with repeated contacts and phone calls.

              I personally don't call the non-buyers, because it's just more profitable to pitch a new person. But if your sales skills aren't formidable, repeated calls will be more profitable.

              I never did a study of repeated sales calls to non-buyers. Although calling non-buyers the next day, once, was very profitable. But it was a 5 minute phone call, not a 2 hour presentation.

              Anyway, I sure hope this helps someone, because it was a pain looking up my old figures.

              And Underground; You're not a fool, and neither am I. And neither is anyone (I can only vouch for three) on this thread. So, somehow, we are misunderstanding each other. Our experiences can't be that different.
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              • Profile picture of the author Underground
                Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                I'm familiar with the Kennedy model. The percentages you gave (if they came from Kennedy) are for mailings to a very select list of previous buyers from Glazer-Kennedy. These are not phone calls, and they are not to a cold list.

                I can give you real life results, and they fit perfectly with what Kennedy (and his herd of mini-gurus) experience.

                In a market that has never heard of you, and has never bought from you....it will work something like this; (These numbers are in direct mail, not phone calls, but there should be a parallel of principles).

                If you are a guru, sending sales letters to a niche....the total percentage that will buy from you eventually, tops at about 5%. meaning that about 5% will buy, given a good enough reason, after multiple attempts...under ideal conditions.

                Remember, this is a cold list, in a niche. A list of your current buyers may give you 10-20% eventually. But we are talking about a cold list.

                You may get a 1% response on the first mailing. Of the 99% that didn't buy, another mailing will typically give you half of the result you got from your first mailing.

                Kennedy talks about a 3 mailing sequence. But that's not what he does. That's not what I do either. That's not what his following of mini-gurus do either. What do we do? We keep mailing until the response stops generating a profit. Then we stop.

                And typically, the response may be 1% (which can vary dramatically, but 1% is on the high end). Then typically, you'll get half of that result for the next several mailings.

                So we may get the 5%. But that's not the question.

                The question is, how big is the list? Because we won't get the same result from our second mailing, as we got from our first. We will get a lower result. Typically half.

                It may still be profitable to send repeated mailings. But do you know what's even more profitable? Mailing to new names. And you keep mailing to new names, until you run out of names, and then you re-mail to the list of people who didn't buy.

                In the case of large mailers, they mail to the list of people that didn't buy..until it no longer is profitable (results go down with each mailing, in multiple mailings, not up. Ever) and they also mail to new people...because both mailings are profitable. That's what Kennedy does.

                So, what has this got to do with cold calling on the phone?

                Well.....

                Phone calls take time. Mailings do not.
                And, if you know...after making hundreds of calls (or thousands, in my case) That you'll get an appointment every six calls (my average with in house monitored telemarketers), if you talk to the business owner...on the first call....you can create usable figures for a formula. If I called personally, it was a bit higher.

                If I get people that say "Not now, but maybe later"...and we keep calling them back, my number of appointments per call (to that list) very quickly sinks to;

                Second call to same prospect; one in 15...
                next calls...one in 46....
                next calls...one in 70.
                I stopped at the 4th call.

                Yes, I actually tested this once about 12 years ago, when I started trying to use the names of people who didn't make an appointment, and who didn't buy. I did this once, over a 90 day period. And that was enough for me. I used in house telemarketers,

                Why the sharp decline after each call? Because the people who would never make an appointment with me...were still on my list to call.

                And their percentage (the non-appointment makers) of the list, keeps growing. Until I'm really just calling the... "I'm never going to make an appointment with you ever" list.

                So....calling a list, over and over, will increase your results-per-name. But the results will grow slower with each successive call. And that growth curve drops off sharply after the first call.

                Now...would it be worth mailing them? Maybe. Because mailing doesn't take time. As long as it generates some profit...keep doing it. E-mailing the "non-appointment prospects" would be worth while, I would think. Send them to a website, a webinar? E-mail? Sure.

                But the reason I only call once (assuming contact with a viable prospect), is because my results dwindle by half, if I call them again (actually slightly more than half). So...I just call new names.

                We were just talking about making an appointment, not trying to sell on that first call. Although the results would be similar, just as the results of a direct sales letter would decline with repetition.

                As far as multiple calls after a presentation? Again, I don't do it. But I know it's profitable. Especially, if you are calling the people who didn't buy...from an incompetent salesperson. Those leads are gold.


                And phone calls to people who saw a presentation, but didn't buy? Those calls are worth making. Because a person who was qualified to see a presentation (in any form), and now, knows who you are, is very likely to buy eventually..from someone. You may get 10%-30% to buy from you eventually, with repeated contacts and phone calls.

                I personally don't call the non-buyers, because it's just more profitable to pitch a new person. But if your sales skills aren't formidable, repeated calls will be more profitable.

                I never did a study of repeated sales calls to non-buyers. Although calling non-buyers the next day, once, was very profitable. But it was a 5 minute phone call, not a 2 hour presentation.

                Anyway, I sure hope this helps someone, because it was a pain looking up my old figures.

                And Underground; You're not a fool, and neither am I. And neither is anyone (I can only vouch for three) on this thread. So, somehow, we are misunderstanding each other. Our experiences can't be that different.
                The dunning example I heard Kennedy speak about was a restaurant owner to a geo-targeted of non-customers I believe. Just 2000 people near his restaurant.

                There was a stat you commented on the other day that showed how the chances of a sale increased steeply with each touch. This doesn't mirror your experience. And you said that it was because most of the sales people were probably bad.

                That could be the case on the first call, but they sure did get their game in order as they progressed through the cycle.

                Point is there is a alot of variance in response rate and figures but over all there is enough facts and data out their to suggest around 20% of a certain qualified list have the probability of becoming customers. I would try to determine those with interest on first call and not write off or treat anyone who shows interest as second priority just because their personal buying process may be slower than the laydowns. I'd just see the laydowns as a bonus. After getting them to agree to at least having a letter sent, you can probe a bit to find out.

                I think it was Jon Goldman on the lumpymail.com site the other day who said that in the dunning sequence the response rate remains roughly the same for each touch. I've been trying to find it but can't right now. It's why I supposed that 20% could be closed with the right process in place.

                We do seem to be more in agreement about things. I think the true experts here maybe aren't always the best teachers until they are really prompted to go into detail or motivated to. I think this is due to a factor some guy I know who trains elite performers, where he often points out sometimes they have a hard time explaining what and how they do things because so many of the tiny little things that go into what they do and the success they've achieved is second nature to them and outside of conscious awareness, but to others not at the level, these details are massive important to know. I know both you and Jason for example work extremely hard at marketing and sales and are studious, and that there is way more to what you do then comes across. I know this. I know you guys use a variety of media and tools and tricks that are essential today because customers are accustomed to multi-channel marketing and sales material from companies.

                We both agree too, that chasing after the ''80%'' or whatever the figure is who will never buy is a waste of time.
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                • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                  Originally Posted by Underground View Post

                  The dunning example I heard Kennedy speak about was a restaurant owner to a geo-targeted of non-customers I believe. Just 2000 people near his restaurant.
                  This is the example he uses to sell Magnetic Marketing
                  The results were pretty much like I said; Half on the first mailing, and a fourth on each of the third and fourth mailings. The secret to even that success, was that the mailings built on each other, and reflected the previous mailing.


                  He uses the 3 step mailing example a lot, because that's what he's selling in his Magnetic Marketing program. But I promise you, he isn't using a 3 step program to sell anything.

                  But if he said "I have this 24 step program, including 2 phone calls, 15 e-mails, and 14 mail pieces" he wouldn't sell anything. So he has to use a simple 3 step program as his example.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Underground
                    Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                    This is the example he uses to sell Magnetic Marketing
                    The results were pretty much like I said; Half on the first mailing, and a fourth on each of the third and fourth mailings. The secret to even that success, was that the mailings built on each other, and reflected the previous mailing.


                    He uses the 3 step mailing example a lot, because that's what he selling in his Magnetic Marketing program. But I promise you, he isn't using a 3 step program to sell anything.

                    But if you said "I have this 24 step program, including 2 phone calls, 15 e-mails, and 14 mail pieces" he wouldn't sell anything. So he has to use a simple 3 step program as his example.

                    Yes, in that example the response rates weren't uniform but overall I remember 20% took up his offer from the 45 day, 3 step campaign or something. That was one example that comes to mind.

                    Another, of many I could site that proves that around 10-20% on average are worth pursuing once they've raised their hand, is a three step multi-channel sales process can be found in the book Maximum Lead Generation by Ruth Stevens.

                    Here's a tight little, three touch approach. May hurt your eyes to read but well worth truly thinking over. It was to a list of only 1500. They wanted to target the 98% who didn't respond to previous marketing efforts by email and direct mail. They managed to generate 750 qualified leads out of that 98%, generated 7 figures and got 41-1 roi on their 3 step campaign.



                    Case Study in Lead-Generation Excellence: How Anritsu Reached Key Decision Makers with a Three-Touch Campaign

                    To whet your appetite for how powerfully lead-generation programs can help drive your business success, enjoy the case of Anritsu, who cleverly figured out how to find and attract wireless industry engineers to express interest in learning more about a new handheld instrument for testing cellular base station transmitters. Anritsu, a leader in test and measurement equipment for the wireless industry, had a problem getting through to its target audience for the company’s handheld BTS Master Base Station Analyzer. The decision makers their sales team coveted were hard-to-reach engineers who spent most of their time in the field. Historically, these professionals had responded poorly to Anritsu’s email and direct mail campaigns, converting from prospect to sales lead at a rate of only 2 percent. Anritsu’s marketers needed a way to engage the other 98 percent. After they had the prospects’undivided attention, their job would be to convince them that Anritsu’s instrument was faster, more accurate, and more compact than its competitors’. Anritsu’s director of marketing communications, Katherine Van Diepen, engaged Beasley Direct Marketing Inc. and Direct Marketing Partners to produce a multi- touch, door-opener campaign.

                    The program’s objectives were to

                    • Penetrate the sales team’s wish list, comprising about 1,500 key customer targets at the four top wireless carriers in the U.S. • Engage key decision makers.
                    • Set appointments for in-person demos.
                    • Enhance and validate the target database for future efforts.
                    • Track results and demonstrate a positive ROI.

                    Over the course of three months, the program’s developers planned to achieve their objectives with three highly targeted touches. The first touch was a personalized, dimensional direct mail piece sent with a box replicating the product’s compact size and picturing its actual controls on the outside, as shown in Figure 1.1. Respondents were invited to visit a personalized landing page (see Figure 1.2), which was pre- populated with the prospect’s contact information. A business reply card (BRC), pictured in Figure 1.3, also came inside the box along with a brochure.

                    The second touch was a personalized email to the same target audience. The email, shown in Figure 1.4, was intended to drive responders to a PURL.

                    A third touch, in the form of a personalized teleprospecting call to responders and nonresponders, came a day or two after the email. The call to action for all three touch points were the same: to set an appointment for an in-person demonstration of the base station analyzer. A free iPod Shuffle (preloaded with Anritsu’s datasheets and collateral) would be the incentive offer. The results? Wow! To say the program was successful is a mammoth understatement. The campaign improved the response rate by a staggering 425 percent over prior campaigns and delivered seven-digit sales revenues. An enviable 7 percent of total targets visited the landing page, and 4 percent filled out the response form.

                    A full 49 percent of prospects contacted by telephone emerged as qualified leads. At last tally, the return on marketing investment (revenue to expense ratio) was 41 to 1. It doesn’t stop there. In addition to exceeding sales-ready lead targets, the program gave Anritsu a model to drive revenue from hard-to-engage accounts. It’s no small wonder that the program earned an Echo Award from the Direct Marketing Association in the highly competitive Information Technology category. The secrets to the success of this campaign: • A clear understanding of the target market, their motivations, and their buying process • Multiple touches through proven media channels, deployed to capture the maximum penetration of a relatively narrow segment • A powerful set of benefits and a compelling offer • Strong focus on metrics, tracking the performance on each touch, not only response but qualification rates, and conversion to sales In short, this campaign took advantage of proven best practices in B-to-B lead generation today. So, now, on to the rest of this book, where you can learn these practices and principles for yourself.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                      Originally Posted by Underground View Post

                      Another, of many I could site that proves that around 10-20% on average are worth pursuing once they've raised their hand, is a three step multi-channel sales process can be found in the book Maximum Lead Generation by Ruth Stevens.
                      Yes, yes, yes...."once they have raised their hand" they are now a very qualifierd list. Those people can be contacted over and over again because;

                      They haven't had a full presentation, they have just shown interest.
                      They are probably the top 5% of any list, and now they know something about you.

                      So, now you are investing most of your effort to multiple contacts to an elite list.

                      I don't think I would keep calling them on the phone, but multiple exposures would sure get results.

                      I am on the list of a lady named Jenny Hanby (I think). She had a manual for sale for a few hundred dollars. And I kept getting her e-mails every few days.

                      On the 22nd e-mail, I bought. I know, because after I bought, I went back and copied every e-mail she sent me.

                      Here's why that worked.
                      1) I was a highly qualified lead. I had proven to buy something similar to what she was selling, in the past....and I bought in the media she was selling in (an e-mail sequence)

                      and

                      2) Her e-mails were educational, and not pitchy....so she eventually wore me down.

                      On the other hand, I am subscribed to several e-mail lists, from which I'll never buy.
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                      Terence Fletcher: "There are no two words in the English language more harmful than Good Job." Whiplash.
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                      • Profile picture of the author Underground
                        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                        Yes, yes, yes...."once they have raised their hand" they are now a very qualifierd list. Those people can be contacted over and over again because;

                        They haven't had a full presentation, they have just shown interest.
                        They are probably the top 5% of any list, and now they know something about you.

                        So, now you are investing most of your effort to multiple contacts to an elite list.

                        I don't think I would keep calling them on the phone, but multiple exposures would sure get results.

                        I am on the list of a lady named Jenny Hanby (I think). She had a manual for sale for a few hundred dollars. And I kept getting her e-mails every few days.

                        On the 22nd e-mail, I bought. I know, because after I bought, I went back and copied every e-mail she sent me.

                        Here's why that worked.
                        1) I was a highly qualified lead. I had proven to buy something similar to what she was selling, in the past....and I bought in the media she was selling in (an e-mail sequence)

                        and

                        2) Her e-mails were educational, and not pitchy....so she eventually wore me down.

                        On the other hand, I am subscribed to several e-mail lists, from which I'll never buy.
                        Yes, I think most people like to buy at their own pace and don't like someone just pitching them. I've had that experience. The latest one was Ryan Deiss. I'd ignored his emails for a long time thinking they'd be just like the overly promotional stuff from the majority of the SEO, but when I checked them out one day the content of the emails and blog posts were seriously high educational value and there was a little prompt at the end that I could check out further if I wanted but nothing intrusive. After a few of those I started realizing how powerful their approach was and different from the rest and bought from them. I learned their ''secret selling system'' process and exactly how they structured their sales and marketing processes after first experiencing how powerful it was first hand because they really stuck out out of hundreds of emails and gurus. That's another place I got the 20%.

                        The difference most people have in terms for people who provide education and change the way they look at things or helps them improve their knowledge to those who just pitch them at every opportunity should not be understated. It's enough to shut many people who would be interested in buying down and turn them off you completely so you never get the chance to pitch because they can't take to you personally.

                        In the OP's case, I would treat all those who agreed to receive info as those who raised their hands. In his case, that is currently around 12 percent. And all having a likelihood to buy and craft a strategic sales process to try to close as many of them as possible, even if some go on an auto-responder list for months.

                        Once they'd agreed to having the letter sent that would show them how they could take advantage of that change in the industry, I would really talk up the info that is being sent, as well as trying to qualify them. Let them know about what they can expect from the content, a couple of key benefits, about any offers, how the offer is time sensitive etc, and really ''screw things down'' so the consistency principle comes more strongly into effect. It doesn't have to be a boring letter but can be info that acts as a powerful sales tool that does the closing itself with a link to webinar, a lead magnet to get them onto an educational autoresponder sequence, a video sales pitch, sales pages, payment pages, etc, tools to automate the buying process. Many are accustomed to that.

                        But OP, since you can't go to appointments, I'd really focus on trying to improve the number of people into the funnel, and in crafting exceptional high-level content with strong messaging that covers every angle necessary to move them to a buying decision in a variety of the formats above, and make it easy for them to buy. If you just seek continually improvement in those areas, and you're not really going to get a better pitch for your situation the Mwind provided, and then work on your back-end and product line and upsells, there isn't really anything else needed.

                        You'll be getting a nice number of people agreeing to be sent info, talking that up so they look forward or are curious to check it out, and then make sure what you send and the path to purchase is compelling at every step of the way and does a great job in presenting what you do so it drives as many people to action as possible and then you can scale.

                        But here's some great advice on tying things down, and ensuring they place significance on it and take you seriously.

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                        • Profile picture of the author PJMC
                          Thanks again.

                          Will come back to this post in a couple of weeks and update you on my progress.

                          Regards
                          PJ
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                          • Profile picture of the author Underground
                            Originally Posted by PJMC View Post

                            Thanks again.

                            Will come back to this post in a couple of weeks and update you on my progress.

                            Regards
                            PJ
                            I hope if anything, you read the case study on Amritsus I gave very carefully a few times to grasp the key points. Some people will never be open and humble enough consider new ideas and I don't expect them to take things on, but that obviously can't be said of you, and with all the noise in this thread it would be a shame if you glossed over that case study and the success principles that it contains.

                            Having a multi-step approach with the same message and call to action, with a letter first, email second, and call third, generated 60 leads in the first two steps, then around 700 sale read leads with the call to those recipients. That is four times more effective then the figures you are getting now.

                            If what your company offers is any good, and an approach like that is feasible, where you send letters and emails first, then phone, it is now doubt worth pursuing. I'm working on a similar campaign to finalize it and will be replicating that as much as possible. I'll post result here.


                            If you sell commoditized, low-grade junk that when set against competitors in your industry would make you look a joke, then the going for the low hanging fruit of people who have a hard time saying no to someone assertive might be the way to go, because you'd just waste a lot of money and time trying to reach people who won't by because what you offer is garbage.

                            I know that isn't the case. If you do have the means to send out mail first to prospects then I would strongly consider it. And crafting an online funnel to present to them remotely, with a video or webinar, in place of holding appointments.

                            Many successful marketers have online funnels that do all the selling for them and never have to go to meetings.

                            If you want the book that contains that case study, I'll pm it to you.
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                            • Profile picture of the author PJMC
                              Thanks that would be perfect if you would.

                              Regards

                              PJ
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  • Profile picture of the author Underground
    I' just want to add that the only chance that your best opportunity to sell is there and then because if you send them something and they lose all desire, is if what you sell is absolute, overpriced junk and if they did their due diligence you'd be found out. Or if your supplementary sales collateral is awful to non-existent.

    There's a good reason that highl-level, multi-millionaire marketers often sell clients on a webinar, video presentation, seminar, trial or live demonstration first, because that is where they can get prospects into a buying state. It's proven that the longer you can keep someone at a presentation or webinar the more chance they will buy.



    If you think you can create anywhere near that kind of effect and put them into a buying state on cold telemarketing call in the same numbers and with the same results, you're just deluded.
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    • Profile picture of the author PJMC
      Thanks for the feedback.

      I guess there are many different ways to approach what I do. I am not looking for the quick fix. I have been at this for just 2 years and really enjoy what I do. Based on the additional information provided in my reply, do you have any more suggestions that would suit my approach? Since I am unable to visit clients and my only point of contact is phone or mail/email, as my potential clients are country wide.

      Regards

      PJ
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  • Profile picture of the author Underground
    Anyway, just to try to be more concise, if took you a month to phone 2000 people, and got 400 hundred who said yes I'll buy now or send me info, and you sent a great informative webinar or something that changed their paradigm or made them see things different (as advocated in the Challenger Sale), with an offer to a low cost trial of some sort, or an appointment, and closed 50% like the stats Sam Ovens is getting, all in a week long process of first call (so 27 days in all from start to end), you'd make $200,000 in 25 days. I don't know how you got to the 20 k in 4 days, but if you repeated that with the same success rate, you'd still be short 80 grand and would have had to make 12,000 calls instead of 2000 with half the revenue, and far most costs, both financially and time wise.


    It leaves me with a very unsettled feeling inside that I have to debate this kind of thing as a relatively lone voice on this place.

    More money, in less calls, with less cost per customer. And I need to debate that and argue that is a good thing?
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  • Profile picture of the author Underground
    Matthew is a guy who personally believes sending someone anything is fannying around. Find that 2% and keep finding it, ignore the rest. And teaches that on the forum. Like promoting your business all comes down to getting on the phone all day to strangers and looking for people who you can close right there.

    That seems to be the dominant mindset here. I think a more multi-touch, multi-channel strategic approach to getting leads attentions, educating them in a variety of ways, incentivising them with the right offers, and following up is essential and that you're leaving so much on the table not basing your sales approach on your customers preferred buying cycle, like they did in the Amritsu case study above. Sales includes more than just qualifying and closing.
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  • Profile picture of the author socialentry
    Honestly, if they give you things like DOB, they're probably interested enough to agree to an appointment (or at least a live transfer) right there and then.

    Either that, or you're calling truly naive and trusting people.
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    • Profile picture of the author PJMC
      Originally Posted by socialentry View Post


      Either that, or you're calling truly naive and trusting people.
      No they are not stupid, I am just good at getting what I need, to get the job done. We want to review a product they already have, so we need to get the details of the policy. I agree if i was selling a new policy, then dealing with it then or sorting an appointment time later that day to ask the questions required, the company would make more money. But I am happy as things are, it allows me to time, (only work 4 days) and to gather information for my own non competing future business.

      Regards
      PJ
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  • Profile picture of the author Reddy20
    Great script. I am getting more ideas here.
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