Joomla or Drupal for new CMS site?

by evo33
47 replies
Hi,

I need to develop a brand new website for a client. The site will be Professional Brochure Website but will need to be professional and corporate in appearance and will have several pages that will also be updated on a monthly/weekly basis. I was going to code this in XHTML/CSS but based on the expenditure of the site this language would be too costly in the long run and no good as a CMS language.

I have researched forums and other sites and would like to get an opinion at which language is better to use for such a project. I am steering more towards Joomla but Drupal is there if someone can suggest the better platform for this project.

I will point out that the website will aim to get over 50k visitors per month so a strong platform is crucial for the future of this website as well as search engine friendly so the site can get ranked high on Search Engines based on Online Marketing and SEO.

I am confused between the 2 CMS platforms but I will point out:
  • the site will expand over time from 50 pages to possibly 500 after several years
  • The site has to be SEO friendly
  • Is JOOMLA equal in SEO rankings or is DRUPAL better to get a better rank for a website?
  • Is JOOMLA as safe as DRUPAL in regard to SECURITY and HACKING

The site will contain the following features:
  • It will have about 3 categories which will include articles that will be added per monthly basis.
  • It will also include BLOG page with post and no comments
  • A Directory feature of approx 150 Contact Details for Businesses and their website links

Example of the categories for the menu (split into 2 menus - horizontal/vertical and the footer):

1. Home
2. Services - 1 to 3 pages
3. Products - 1 page
4. About - several Sub-Categories
5. Contact Us - Contact Form
6. Gallery - 2 to 3 Galleries

7. Recycling Information - Articles
8. Interesting Facts - Articles
9. Resources - Articles
10. Blog - Regular Posts (no comments)
11. Newsletter - Past and Recent Newsletters
12. Recycling Locations - Directory of all locations (approx 150)

13. Sitemap
14. Privacy Policy
15. Disclaimer
16. Copyright

I look forward to your recommendations whether I should use JOOMLA or DRUPAL for this project. Please let me know some strong advantages why you think this platform is better then the other.

The site will be developed by a professional so if you also have at least 3-5yrs of expertise in these languages and can provide a high quality portfolio you might even get the job.

regards,
elv8.
#cms #drupal #joomla #site
  • Profile picture of the author Mr. Enthusiastic
    Hi Evo, welcome to the Warrior Forum. This is a really terrific site for you to get lots of great up to date information that will help you with your online work.

    I think you're 100% right on target to use a content management system for your new site. This will make it so much easier for you to develop the site, maintain it, expand it, and scale it up to handle more traffic.

    If you use one of the more popular CMS platforms, you'll be able to readily find experts who can help with with all aspects of the project. These aspects including business and marketing plans, content creation, graphic design, coding, and system administration.

    Whichever system you choose, be aware that your team should keep up with the latest security patches from the platform's core programming teams. In addition, it's vital that your web and database servers have proper security configuration and upgrades in place.

    There are far more than two CMS platforms. I occasionally see a Drupal or Joomla post here on the WF, but far and away there's no question that Wordpress is the most popular CMS in the Internet marketing community. From your list of requirements, I don't see anything that Wordpress couldn't handle just fine. Did you look into Wordpress and choose against it for some reason? Or did you just not come across it yet in your research?

    If you give some idea what kind of schedule and budget you have in mind, you might find some WF members who can offer bids on the entire project, all-inclusive, or on particular components where they have skills. Without that information from you, it would just be a guessing game for everyone about whether or not you're in the same ballpark as the vendors.

    Good luck with your project. The WF is a good sounding board to explore your plans and get help with troubleshooting.

    Chris
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  • Profile picture of the author evo33
    Thanks Chris,

    I know of Wordpress and I have about 50 websites currently running using Wordpress - all blog sites. The reason why I have looked upon JOOMLA is from what I can gather from the Internet and user suggestions, Joomla is more of a CMS platform and ideal for large static sites. I have been told that Wordpress is ideal for blogs and I am little confused in respect to which 1 to go for. I do understand that Wordpress is the king of CMS thanks to its widespread usage, flexibility and security but I am just not very convinced to get the detail I wish to have in my interface and functionality of the site.

    Hey, by all means if Wordpress can handle the corporate looking template I will be getting designed that I may definitely steer towards getting the site developed in Wordpress alone over Joomla.

    I am a little confused between the 2 languages and I want the completed website to be professional in appearance but also easy on the servers and secure once it's starts getting high volumes of traffic.

    The site will be used as a purpose to find new leads worldwide but will also be an educational reference for teachers, students and eager visitors to learn more about Recycling.
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    • Profile picture of the author byoung2
      Originally Posted by evo33 View Post

      Hey, by all means if Wordpress can handle the corporate looking template I will be getting designed that I may definitely steer towards getting the site developed in Wordpress alone over Joomla.
      Take a look at Themeforest.net to see the amazing things people can do with Wordpress as a CMS. Twicet is a prime example. I've seen some amazing Drupal sites, but the code is pretty bloated and it's overly complex to get simple things done. Not a fan of Joomla, but I haven't worked with it in several years.

      If you are looking at a really high-traffic site, I would go with Wordpress (plus WP-Super-Cache for static caching) or Movable Type (which publishes static HTML files). Check out Steve's Digicams for an example of a high traffic site (600K uniques/mo) with a lot of content (20K pages) that I ported to Movable Type. It's load balanced across 2 servers and published from a 3rd, so static HTML comes in really handy (Wordpress could run on 2 boxes, but MySQL is tricky to load balance).
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  • Profile picture of the author Product Developer
    Evo

    Joomla can do everything you want (from you post) and more...

    I tested both Joomla and Drupal and prefer Joomla!

    There are many extensions for security I would recommend installing this one - jSecure Authentication - Joomla! Extensions Directory

    Seo with Joomla has one drawback and that's with the (section/category manager) can't set meta for the sections but again this extension here SC Meta - Section Category Meta Manager - Joomla! Extensions Directory Resolves that issue!

    Go with Joomla you won't regret it!

    Alex
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    • Profile picture of the author CarloD.
      I too would use Joomla over Drupal
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    • Profile picture of the author sligon00
      Originally Posted by Product Developer View Post

      Evo

      Joomla can do everything you want (from you post) and more...

      I tested both Joomla and Drupal and prefer Joomla!

      There are many extensions for security I would recommend installing this one - jSecure Authentication - Joomla! Extensions Directory

      Seo with Joomla has one drawback and that's with the (section/category manager) can't set meta for the sections but again this extension here SC Meta - Section Category Meta Manager - Joomla! Extensions Directory Resolves that issue!

      Go with Joomla you won't regret it!

      Alex
      Which of the CMS would you recommend for a newbie starting out ?

      BayAreaSteve
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      • Profile picture of the author Product Developer
        Originally Posted by sligon00 View Post

        Which of the CMS would you recommend for a newbie starting out ?

        BayAreaSteve

        Sligon00

        Joomla!... It can be installed with just a couple of clicks from (Fantasico De Luxe) in control panel (the same as wordpress)

        The administrator panel (joomla back-end) is simple and easy to use for example: click the article tab - write the article - click publish and your contents live.

        There are thousands of extensions, any can be installed in just a couple of clicks and most are straight forward.

        If you've used wordpress before Joomla should be easy for you, If you have no experience whatsoever... Joomla will take you a day or so to pick up.

        Another thing with Joomla is, if you ever get stuck - googling your question will 99 times out of 100, find the answer you're looking for.

        Alex
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  • Profile picture of the author Mr. Enthusiastic
    Evo, I see you've got some Joomla experts here for you. So whichever way you go there are people who can help you with your questions.

    The way that Wordpress looks is determined by the theme, not by Wordpress. There are countless themes to choose from. I really like Atahualpa, because the theme includes its own editor that lets you go in and change a lot of options without separately editing the CSS file. But it's a matter of taste. Chances are that there is a theme that already has 90% of the look you want, and a theme design expert can easily do the last few tweaks.

    byoung2, I'm really glad you brought up Wordpress cache plugins. These pages let the Wordpress script and database generate a page. Then all the html is saved and re-used for the next visitor.

    If the page doesn't have comments, you can just reuse the cached page forever or until you modify the site.

    If you have comments, the cache will give an older version of the page without all the latest comments. But it will run a lot faster than showing all the comments to every visitor.

    These kinds of tricks can let one server handle several times the load. There are several people who have figured out how to split a Wordpress site across several servers if you need more capacity.

    Alex, where's a good place to start with Joomla? I see VirtuMart recommended a lot and I can't find a comparable free shopping plugin for Wordpress. Could I have a Wordpress cart with a sales page only in VirtuMart?

    Steve, the same things that Alex said about Joomla can also be said about Wordpress. Why don't you make a little five page test site with both (in different subdirectories), and decide which feels more comfortable to you?
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  • Profile picture of the author Product Developer
    Chris

    It really depends on what you're trying to achieve, as you know just like wordpress, Joomla can be used to do anything you'd ever want from a website.

    Personally I think VirtueMart is overkill for most (myself included), however there are a few good shopping cart plug-ins and I currently use this one : SimpleCaddy - Joomla! Extensions Directory

    I use it because its simple and easy for the front end user!

    Q.Could I have a Wordpress cart with a sales page only in VirtueMart?

    No not as far as I know, Virtuemart can only be used with joomla.

    Joomla / wordpress - they ain't the same but its all down to personal preference, for me Joomla does what I want!

    Alex
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    • Profile picture of the author Mr. Enthusiastic
      Originally Posted by Product Developer View Post

      Personally I think VirtueMart is overkill for most (myself included), however there are a few good shopping cart plug-ins and I currently use this one : SimpleCaddy - Joomla! Extensions Directory
      Thanks Alex, I'll check it out.

      What I meant was: I have an existing Wordpress site with blogs, articles, etc., for someone who has items for sale.

      I want to have a shopping cart for this site. It needs to show the quantity remaining of each item. If the quantity is below a threshold (say, fewer than 5 remaining), I want it to show a message to ask before ordering, rather than the actual number. I haven't found a Wordpress cart plugin that can do this without a big coding hassle.

      Ideally the shopping cart will confirm each order with an email to the buyer, an email to the vendor, and an auto-update of the sales database with the quantity remaining.

      Can I install Joomla, with a shopping cart extension, in another directory on the same domain name (say site.com/shop); and my Wordpress site links to the shopping page, which is actually in Joomla? There's no need to carry over any user information between the Wordpress comments and Joomla shopping.

      Not sure if I'm making sense here.
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      • Profile picture of the author evo33
        Product Developer; thanks for those extension as they will come handy.

        byoung2; thanks for pointing out that high-traffic site, I would go with Wordpress (plus WP-Super-Cache for static caching) or Movable Type (which publishes static HTML files). Thats what I intend to do over this year to have high volume traffic sites and its damn good to know that you can actually split the site over 2 - 3 servers!!!
        Yes, I have found MySql tricky on load balances especially when running a Virtual Dedicated Server compared to just the basic shared hosting.

        It will be between Joomla and Wordpress, I am still thinking of Joomla for the client as the site will be custom coded from a custom designed template and would like to provide a strong CMS system rather then a blog.

        However, Wordpress is far the KING of blogging sites and as told it is a good CMS system also as long as you can get a theme designed or customized to the right specifications!!!
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      • Profile picture of the author Product Developer
        Originally Posted by Mr. Enthusiastic View Post

        Thanks Alex, I'll check it out.

        What I meant was: I have an existing Wordpress site with blogs, articles, etc., for someone who has items for sale.

        I want to have a shopping cart for this site. It needs to show the quantity remaining of each item. If the quantity is below a threshold (say, fewer than 5 remaining), I want it to show a message to ask before ordering, rather than the actual number. I haven't found a Wordpress cart plugin that can do this without a big coding hassle.

        Ideally the shopping cart will confirm each order with an email to the buyer, an email to the vendor, and an auto-update of the sales database with the quantity remaining.

        Can I install Joomla, with a shopping cart extension, in another directory on the same domain name (say site.com/shop); and my Wordpress site links to the shopping page, which is actually in Joomla? There's no need to carry over any user information between the Wordpress comments and Joomla shopping.

        Not sure if I'm making sense here.
        Chris

        Yes you can do that - install under a directory named (shop) or somthing similar then link to to the directory from your wordpress site. I've done it in the past with Joomla and simple machines forum and it worked well, without problems.

        Here is also an extension that might interest you 'corePHP' WordPress Integration for Joomla 1.5 - Joomla! Extensions Directory
        It's not free but definitely worth a look.


        As far as stock control and quantity remaining - Yes you can do it using Joomla / Virtuemart and this component (it is $49.99 to purchase though) Easy Inventory Control - Joomla! Extensions Directory

        But it only shows the number instead of stock running low, I don't know of an extension that does just say (stock less then 5 ask before ordering) I'm sure it can be done though and I'll take a look for you...

        See the Demo here: Please Wait For Video to Load

        Chris... when watching the Demo video - fast forward to (1:45) one minute forty five seconds and onwards to see stock levels changing!

        Alex
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        • Profile picture of the author Mr. Enthusiastic
          Thanks Alex, I've got some homework ahead of me.

          The shop is for a friend who only has a few hundred dollars worth of inventory. I want to stick with free software if possible. It wouldn't make economic sense to buy a component for this project.

          Thanks again for your help.
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  • Profile picture of the author m4rx
    Nice and simple.
    Joomla - Simple, Secure, Great forum!
    Drupal - More configuration, more secure but more configuration to achieve. AMAZING online support forum. Easier navigation. The administration is front end instead of a completly backend approach.
    Wordpress - Just easy.

    evo I would use Joomla, only because it's easier on administraion. Drupal will be easier to make a theme for(in my opinion).

    Overall the three listed above all come down to personal preference. All are secure, all have an active community, and all have load's of extensions/themes and various other things.

    --m4rx
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    • Profile picture of the author evo33
      Originally Posted by m4rx View Post

      Nice and simple.
      Joomla - Simple, Secure, Great forum!
      Drupal - More configuration, more secure but more configuration to achieve. AMAZING online support forum. Easier navigation. The administration is front end instead of a completly backend approach.
      Wordpress - Just easy.

      evo I would use Joomla, only because it's easier on administraion. Drupal will be easier to make a theme for(in my opinion).

      Overall the three listed above all come down to personal preference. All are secure, all have an active community, and all have load's of extensions/themes and various other things.

      --m4rx
      Yeh, I am more for Joomla based on what people have recommended for this particular site but if it was a site for my personal preference then I would probably go for Drupal as CMS or the king of all Wordpress.
      Cheers for that sum down of the 3 platforms...
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  • Profile picture of the author evo33
    Mr. Enthusiastic Thanks for that theme you recommended Atahualpa. Will have a play around and check it out for sure...
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  • Profile picture of the author mello
    I dropped in on this thread to contribute and found myself getting a few great plugins ... thanks!

    I use both Joomla and Wordpress for different sites. My Joomla site gets me top 10 positioning in G. It's easy to learn (not quite as easy as WP but not far and way easier than Drupal. If your client will be maintaining the system, Joomla or WP but I bend to Joomla for greater flexibility built in without having to use extensive plugins which increases risk of conflicts.

    Good luck.
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  • Profile picture of the author hydseo
    I prefer Joomla than Drupal .. i have been running my site with Joomla I never faced any problem till now

    Good luck
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  • Profile picture of the author cma01
    Evo,

    Drupal, Joomla, and Wordpress are all written in PHP so they are different platforms written in the same programming language.

    There are so many extensions, plugins and addons for all three that it can be really difficult to decide which one is the best.

    If a client either needs a blog or is just publishing straight information, I normally set them up with Wordpress. It's not that the other two can't have blogs, it's just that Wordpress is more centered around the immediacy of the information, user interaction, and pushing your content out. Also, there is less of a learning curve for a new user.

    If you are going to have different types of information and will need different user roles, I would go with Joomla. For example, one of my clients is a pool builder. He has information on his company and services and a photo gallery as well. Pretty basic.

    Another site I did was for a professional services company. The client had information about the company, a long list of services, a blog section, a latest news section for press releases, a portfolio that was optimized for search traffic, an integrated newsletter component, and a project management component where they could manage individual projects for their own clients and have restricted logins for clients and subcontractors per project.

    This was done with existing components that were either open source or low cost commercial components. I did do some customization to the portfolio component to get it to look the way they wanted and styled the individual components to match the theme, but that was it. Because there wasn't very much custom programming that was required, they got a pretty amazing online system at a very competitive price.

    As Mr. Enthusiastic said, you have to keep the platform up to date, because bored kiddies love to search for abandoned Joomla sites and screw them up . . . the same is true of any platform.

    I use SEF patch from Joomla at Work to have more control over SEO options. Actually, I really miss the SEF patch features for the Joomla menu system when I'm working with Wordpress.

    I've used Drupal some, not as much as Joomla or Wordpress. It is more of a framework rather than a ready to go web platform. Programmers like it because they can put in just what they want rather than have a bunch of features they won't use, but to get a customized site it will take more developer time . . . unless you find someone that has already developed a customized version of Drupal with exactly the features you want.

    The one thing that Drupal has over Joomla right now is the granualar ACL (access control levels) that are built into the base platform. It is supposed to be coming in Joomla, but right now you have to use a third party component if you need something other than the standard Joomla user levels.

    One big user difference between Drupal and the other two is that there is no "back end" to Drupal. Once you login, you see all the options that are available to your user role. That is a little odd to me since all of the platforms I cut my teeth on (Oscommerce, ZenCart, Mambo then Joomla, Textpattern, Wordpress etc) have all had a front end and a back end.
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  • Profile picture of the author VisualWebEffects
    personally i use Joomla for every site.

    While wordpress is a powerful blogging platform , lets face it , it is NOT a CMS. If I want blogs, i will install a proper blogging extension into Joomla.

    Drupal, Powerful platform. Not exactly user friendly in my opinion. Not like Joomla is. The fact that the admin and front end are seemless, while that appears to be grand, it can and has provided for quite a bit of confusion. I am one that i like my admin to be seperate, easier to follow, less confusion, better chance of good work flow as i am building a site. Don't take this the wrong way though, Drupal is powerful.

    The only thing that really bugs me about Joomla is the Theme development learning curve. daunting to say the least. Once you get the flow of making them it is good, but getting to that point ... well that is another thing all together.

    And with 1.6 coming soon, the abilities just get even better with Joomla. I have the beta on a dev machine. very cool stuff , nice changes and additions. The one new enhancement: A proper native ACL, that is worth the upgrade all by itself.

    ----

    I personally would choose joomla, but as plenty have mentioned. it is personal preference. try them all. see which one would best fit. There is tons of great open source CMS apps out there. Joomla and Drupal just happen to be the cream of the crop so to speak.
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    • Profile picture of the author cma01
      Originally Posted by VisualWebEffects View Post

      The only thing that really bugs me about Joomla is the Theme development learning curve. daunting to say the least. Once you get the flow of making them it is good, but getting to that point ... well that is another thing all together.
      Really? Are you coding custom options into it? As I'm usually doing a theme for a specific client, I just set it up the way it should be. I think it's a lot easier than a Wordpress theme.

      The one thing that does drive me batty about Joomla and themes is that you have to set up overrides for a CSS layout. Please . . . it's 2010 and the default is still tables? Ughh.

      I haven't tried out 1.6, but I'm really excited to. I hope all my favorite extensions will still work. That took the most time switching to 1.5, finding replacements for my old 1.0 standbys.
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      • Profile picture of the author VisualWebEffects
        Originally Posted by cma01 View Post

        Really? Are you coding custom options into it? As I'm usually doing a theme for a specific client, I just set it up the way it should be. I think it's a lot easier than a Wordpress theme.

        The one thing that does drive me batty about Joomla and themes is that you have to set up overrides for a CSS layout. Please . . . it's 2010 and the default is still tables? Ughh.

        I haven't tried out 1.6, but I'm really excited to. I hope all my favorite extensions will still work. That took the most time switching to 1.5, finding replacements for my old 1.0 standbys.
        this is why it takes me so damned long to do a theme. Because as you mentioned i have to override almost everything. Like you mentioned: tables ... ugh. once the base theme is in i go and edit a peice at a time. Joomla has these items stored all over the damned place so it takes me some time. Like you i design themes custom depending on the site. I am still fairly new to doing themes for Joomla, i come from .NET which has a far superior 'native' and simpler theming schema built right into the framework. That plus the language differences are a bit of a step.

        have not delved into 1.6 too much. There are far to many bugs and quirks in it still to be all that usable.

        right now i am looking into a very promising framework addon for joomla called Nooku. I am hoping to develop a Component/plugin set using this framework to aide in theme development right through the Joomla Admin. But nooku is very extensive so it is gonna take time to read through all the docs.
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    • Profile picture of the author evo33
      Originally Posted by VisualWebEffects View Post

      personally i use Joomla for every site.

      While wordpress is a powerful blogging platform , lets face it , it is NOT a CMS. If I want blogs, i will install a proper blogging extension into Joomla.
      Can you share with me which particular blog extensions you use that are good? Thanks.
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  • Profile picture of the author cma01
    I can see where that would take a lot of time. One of the default templates . . . I think it's the Bee one . . . comes with CSS overrides. I just copy that html folder to my template folder, code the layout, drop in the module positions and I'm done.

    ETA: This is one case where the popularity of the platform with inexperienced web developers has really been a hindrance. From what I've read, the reason the Joomla developers didn't make a CSS layout the default with 1.5 is because it would break the layout of the majority of Joomla sites out there. I guess they figure if you know how to design in CSS, you'll know how to modify the overrides as well.
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  • Profile picture of the author Loren Woirhaye
    My research into who is using Drupal and why indicates that
    it's the platform to use for big, robust, secure sites. If you
    learn it well you'll find your skills in demand as well.

    For Drupal:

    You can install the RootCandy admin theme for a more
    Joomla-like admin experience. Has icon buttons for different
    sections - they are customizable too.

    Look around at the problems in the marketplace - there
    appear to be far more businesses in need of Drupal
    troubleshooters and developers than Joomla ones.
    This indicates an opportunity for growth.

    Whatever the reason for choosing Drupal, companies are
    doing so and committing to it. They need support and
    are having a hard time getting it.
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  • Profile picture of the author customertools
    I don't have much experience with Drupal, but I'd say go with it, Joomla is a security nightmare. And most of the problems are not with Joomla it's self but with the extensions. But I'd choose WordPress as a CMS over both (because I know it inside/out and there are more plugins to do what you want with it).

    -Brad
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  • Profile picture of the author cma01
    Look around at the problems in the marketplace - there
    appear to be far more businesses in need of Drupal
    troubleshooters and developers than Joomla ones.
    This indicates an opportunity for growth.
    Yes, you're right. Drupal takes someone that knows it to customize it. It's not a one click install and it doesn't have an easy extension system like Joomla. Joomla is like Polly Pockets, just snap it on and you're ready to go.

    It makes more sense from a business standpoint to specialize in Drupal because you can charge more, but a lot of my clients are small micro businesses and really don't have a big budget . . . or at least think they don't for a web site.

    And also, I just love Joomla. I have actually gotten quite a few clients for modifications and fixes either because the person that did the install for them didn't do what was needed to make it search engine friendly, or they didn't secure it and their site got hacked. So there is an opportunity, there is just more competition because anyone that has found Fantastico thinks they're a Joomla expert.
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  • Profile picture of the author webknight1
    While they all have their advantages. I have to say that right now there is an undercurrent against Joomla due to security issues. Only because there has also been a number of providers now refusing to host Joomla as a security risk.

    As with any platform a person chooses to go with , take the time to really get to know what you are working with or you will run into issues. Not only should it fit with your work flow comfort, but your clients (if your developing for a client). Priority will always be security.

    I've worked with Drupal, Wordpress and Joomla. After working with Joomla for a little bit I dropped it like a hot potato for what I felt was questionable security options "out of the box". That's not to say it couldn't be secured, but that by default it seems to be thin.

    I have yet to see issues with Drupal on the sites I've used it on. Be forewarned though that it is a bear to configure when you are starting out! How ever as was mentioned before they have a wonderful support forum, and the online documentation is very good as well!

    As for a choice of CMS, only you can decide on what will work and what has too much dead weight for what you really need. There are several options out there beyond Joomla and Drupal that also have fantastic plug-ins but haven't tried to include the kitchen sink in the package. Giving you more flexibility without the bloat.

    As another last thought, if you do a search on CMS through Google there are a number of evaluation sites listing the more popular options out there. Some of them are beefed up versions of Joomla specifically to counter the security issues.
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  • Profile picture of the author justincc68
    I use Joomla as it has lots of useful Addons for expanding the CMS features.
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  • Profile picture of the author tanzeelniazi
    i would say use Drupal
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    • Profile picture of the author Aegir
      Since i build drupal sites i can give you the low down on this, but first lets start with the business model of each.

      Joomla - its more powerful than wordpress but its not drupal
      • Pros
        • You can make a healthy living selling themes and addons. This money the 3rd parties make funds the rapid development and support of their product.
        • Has great articles and books available
      • Cons
        • If you want a feature you buy one.
        • Its community, everyone has a agenda

      Drupal - its a toolbox, you build from scratch the site of your dreams
      • Pros
        • scales
        • multisite support by default
        • can fill any role, need a blog, forum, etc np
        • granular permission based roles which is why drupal is so secure, i get 1-5 security update a module notifications from drupal security team a week its something they take real seriously.
        • truly is a cms, can build custom build data types so it can store anything
        • I can build anything drupal is a web application framework best suited for building custom sites running on real dedicated server
        • Strength is its community, since everything is free there is nothing at stake to entice people to misrepresent things.
        • so many addon modules and they all free
        • flexible taxonomy can handle what you need in categories
        • SEO is really up to the theme in drupal, anything based on ZEN theme is seo friendly
        • clean urls by default none of this website?p=100 crap
      • Cons
        • drupal.org the home of almost everything drupal related requires anything hosted on it to comply with the GPL.
          • Any PHP code that runs on a drupal install is under GPL.
          • While there are a few available themes hosted elsewhere they can only charge for the css+ images in the theme.
        • Due to this lack of revenue drupal modules are not as well supported and slower in bringing out support/new releases.
        • Lack of professional themes.
          • minimum of 25 hrs to build one (every module you install has output that needs to be themed)
          • site specific is next to impossible to write a generic theme since addons easily break em.
          • its really hard to get a drupal site to look even close to what you designed in photoshop
        • Lack of decent documentation and books. This is changing with recent releases from lynda.com, lullabot, orielly, packt. Often its just easier to ask on irc.
        • Anything you do with drupal is generally so site specific that its not really transferable to another project.
        • performance
          • insane amount of queries required to build a page, every module you add just increases this query count thus increasing time to render a page
          • anonymous users are easily cached
          • authorised users(users which log into drupal) are almost uncacheable
        • you really need a vps with 1 gig ram at least to run drupal for any site that has many authorised users
      You don't see many $200 build me a drupal site posts on elance

      cost to develop eg
      if you wanted me to develop just a theme for you i charge $2,500 this is because i must do various things like:
      • conduct a needs assessment to determine what type of modules are required for functionality you desire
      • determine best drupal module of that type to use
      • theme that modules output so it doesnt break the site. 1 might output in ascii another json, another etc...
      if you wanted a complete site and theme it would be $10k

      Send me a PM if you got any questions

      Roger
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      • Profile picture of the author hwijaya
        Drupal is the best platform possible for SEO and Wordpress for blogging apps. Since Wordpress 3.0 supports content type and multi-site, it's starting to look more like Drupal. Great improvement!
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        TotalTheme - Free Drupal Themes

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  • Profile picture of the author lucasdean123
    Joomla has these points stored all over the criticized place so it takes me some time. Like you I design themes custom looking on the site.
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  • Profile picture of the author seo_submission
    Joomla would be better choice because it is simple and whatever you need you can do. Just visit You Tubes Videos of Joomla you would get full information.
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  • Profile picture of the author RichardHK
    If you want to leave tables behind, like you should do, and work with full CSS and XHTML, AND have 100% freedom for SEO and other stuff, try MODx CMS.

    Move with the times guys! Wordpress for blogs, Ok. Joomla rather dated. Drupal fine but complex. Plenty of other kids on the block, and MODx is one of the best out there. Check my site which is a simple CSS/HTML porting to MODx. Only just done so drop some comments in the new system to test it out.
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    Richard, Hong Kong
    Business Consulting

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  • Profile picture of the author smorhaim
    I hate both.. HOWEVER.. Joomla seems to be much better... I know WP is not intended to be a CMS.. but I find that 90% of my projects are easily achieved with WP without using joomla or any of the others.
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    Samuel Morhaim
    Twitter: @smorhaim
    Sites: Smart Social Media Management Tool
    "It's better done that perfect."

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  • Profile picture of the author joomlawala
    Joomla has variety of extensions.
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    Masud
    Email me at: masud@softsubstation.com
    [to start PSD-to-XHTML/CSS $70; PSD-to-Joomla/WP $150 only]

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  • Profile picture of the author rose.m
    Hiii..
    It all depends on your needs. They're both good choices. Word press is more of a blogging platform, while Joomla is a full fledged CMS. They can both be customized and be seo friendly.

    If you require CMS features, I'd go with Joomla. It has a longer learning curve than Wordpress, but once you figure it out you can do anything with it.
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    • Profile picture of the author Blogmudgeon
      Late arrival!

      I have been developing on the J! core since mid-2006 v1.0.3 or .5. A lot of changes in that time. Saying that J! is easy to learn is somewhat of a misnomer--those that say that are smoking better quality rope than I am!

      Yes, one can "learn" very basic functionality in just a couple days. This is akin to "learning" M$ Windows. The real usefulness of either is contingent upon the templating system applied, and the components/plugins/modules integrated. There is the almost vertical curve!

      Security improved tremendously with 1.5--and the fact is that the majority of security failures these days are from issues with modules and components. Want a site hacked in under a month? Install SMF and use one of the common bridges instead of jFusion... One of the major things I like about WP is the update notification system and simple update procedures. With J! one must get on every app's mailing list and keep tracking in the forums and JED for updates. Akeeba makes a nice admin tool that will simply update the core though.

      One of the biggest buggers with J! has been all of the badly coded CSS and the multitude of JS/jQ libraries heaped willy nilly by most of what has been added. Several iterations of J! ago, this issue was partially solved with the integration of mootools to the core. The better app developers are now taking advantage of this instead of loading their own libraries.

      Rocket Theme is the leader in templates at this time, and the old table issues have been pretty well ditched with the introduction of the Gantry/960 tableless framework in November of 2009. This of course brings a whole new set of concerns--and !important is a sorry way to correct many of them...

      I moved from J! to WP in 2008 because of several glaring security issues and all of the petty license type arguments that render quite a bit of integration impossible. As noted, one can fake a lot of CMS functionality into WP, but it is just not that robustly extendable. WP is rushing to be all things to everyone--and is failing at several of them. For those of us developing any sort of Web 2.0 socionets, what is available simply is not mature enough. BuddyPress is a nice toy, but a joke for real scalable or extensible community development.

      Everyone is trying to horn in on the socionet niche. vB, Invision, SMF, and others are trying to integrate everything--with varying degrees of mediocrity and bug ridden bloat. v1.6 promises a solution to the age old ACL dilemma's of J!, and most of the major 3rd party devs are already porting their apps over. I will get on board at about 1.6.3 stable...
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      Patrick

      "There ain't no secret sauce..."

      |My Internet Marketing Adventures Blog :: Facebook Page|

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  • Profile picture of the author cjscully
    Wow. Not much love for Drupal.

    I've been using Drupal for about a year now. The reason I chose it over Joomla was the granularity of its access controls. It was a feature I needed for a project. Since first starting to work with it I've found it to be a very powerful CMS. It's therefore not surprising that Drupal is used for whitehouse.gov, ubuntu.com, theonion.com, grammy.com, emmys.com and many other high trafic/high profile sites.

    I've found Drupal relatively easy to learn and customize.
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  • Profile picture of the author copypilot
    Go with Drupal, it has been proven to be more effective than Wordpress or Joomla in SEO

    search for alledia seo competition to see what I'm talking about
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  • Profile picture of the author Greg D
    Just read the thread, very interesting discussion. Want to throw in my 2 cents.

    A couple of years ago I wanted to build a site and decided to go with Joomla. I got 2 books and a dvd series.

    Downloaded it and started away. For me, it just did not 'click'. I abandoned it for WordPress.

    For some reason (insert jokes here) WordPress 'clicked' for me. I have stuck with it ever since. What I see is more and more plugins and themes are being developed that are more and more robust for the WP platform.

    Because of that and sticking with something that is comfortable (explains the extra years with my failed marriage) I have stuck with it.

    I feel confident that going from total newb to what I can do now with WP, html and php code changes, knowing how to research something, find an answer or a direction and figure it out.....

    That if I were to give Joomla a shot now, I would probably do better with it.

    I like to think about down the road. How easy is it now for you to set up for the client, but what is the support community like?

    With that I mean extensions available, besides just actual forums.

    Because I assume this will be a long term client (or hope to be) and you want to be able to 'scale' growth and tackle problems with ease.

    I am not leaning one way or another on this issue for advice because I would be ignorant to do so, since I have no experience with any other website platform other than WordPress.

    Good luck.

    Greg
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  • Profile picture of the author meganmatthew
    There is much more than two CMS platforms. I sometimes see a Drupal or Joomla WF details but still I solve many questions about Wordpress, which is the most popular CMS, also internet marketing community. Joomla is the better than Drupal.
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  • Profile picture of the author fbhc
    I will always pick Joomla because of its versatility, once you learn it, you will never go back to Wordpress.
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  • Profile picture of the author janejana
    Joomla has lots of bugs and in time your site can be hack while drupal is kind of expensive but surely your accounts are secured
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  • Profile picture of the author indiawebdevelop
    Both Joomla and Drupal are the best free open source web development CMS platforms. But I most use to Joomla with the great addons and features.
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