web designer vs a programmer

76 replies
this might sound like a dumb question..
but what would be the difference between a web designer vs a programmer?

if i'm looking to hire someone to make a website
should i look for someone that is a programmer or a designer
does the designer do both?
what would the advantage of a programmer be?

thanks for your time.
#designer #programmer #web
  • Profile picture of the author darthdeus
    It depends on what you need. Web designer can usually only create "static website", while programmer is able to create very customized solution like e-shop.

    If you only want a simple website, you can use CMS like Wordpress and have designer create you a template. You might even do this without any designer and choose from bunch of free templates out there.

    On the other hand, programmers almost never do design, so if you want to hire a programmer, you also need someone else to make you a design.
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    • Profile picture of the author judelive1986
      i agree with this... web designer...they are more on the GUI ...... Programmer more on solutions. but some programmer knows how to design a web and some designers know how to program..
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  • Profile picture of the author ninal
    You first have to establish the specifications of your project. Most designers can handle designing and coding static sites (plain html/css).

    But if you need your site to have a certain type of functionality (e.g. membership sites, anything that requires a database, etc) then you definitely need a programmer.

    Although you could always assign the design aspect to a designer then have a programmer integrate your required functionality.
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  • Profile picture of the author jedz
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    Hi seangreen,

    It all depends on the project. Most of the designer can also code but it's rare to have a programmer who has some designing skills. It would be better if you could provide the job details/description, so we could give you a better offer.
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  • Profile picture of the author arnoldsmithh
    If you are looking to hire someone for creating website so make sure that he is a web designer and programmer both.
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  • Profile picture of the author prtt75
    If it is a site that requires membership features or any database functions or custom scripting you need a web developer/programmer. Sometimes, the web developer do have a graphics designer to do the GUI layout for the site as well.

    And yeah, a web programmer/developer is paid higher than a web and a graphic designer.
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  • Profile picture of the author chuawenching
    actually there are difference between web designer vs programmer vs developer

    web designer - all the web stuff you name it, including css and graphics, maybe flash (front end)

    programmer vs developer - do everything under the sky, but developer has better grasp on the overall solution design, requirements, planning, unlike programmer only follow instructions .. if boss say yes, then is yes ...

    again this is my 2 cents, really depends on individual
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    • Profile picture of the author dageshi
      I'm a programmer so from experience.

      Programmers are more suited to building and customising software so for example a programmer would have no problem installing wordpress or getting to grips with writing a custom module for a CMS like drupal. However they are probably not very artistic, our heads tend not to work with anything but lines of code so ask us to write some extra functionality for a website AND make it look nice might be asking alot! It is for me anyway I can knock out code easy enough but spend hours staring at a crappy page thinking... erm how do I make this look good.

      Designers on the otherhand do all the prettifying, making things look good.

      There is overlap of course, some people can do both but from my experience they are quite rare! People that can do both are generally going to be pretty expensive or not very good at either.

      Just my 2cents.
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  • Profile picture of the author seangreen
    thank you all for clearing this up.
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  • Profile picture of the author Damien Roche
    You want a web developer who can do both design and development.
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    • Profile picture of the author kiopa
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      Originally Posted by Damien Roche View Post

      You want a web developer who can do both design and development.
      Personally, I'd never contract to someone who says they're good at both, design and development. You can be good at one or the other, or mediocre at both, but you can't be good at both. Being a quality designer and quality developer takes two completely mind sets.
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  • Profile picture of the author jackmiloto
    Better hire someone who can do both, it's really a big advantage.
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  • Profile picture of the author digital29
    The web designer works on how a site looks, and the programmer on how the site works, interactivity, pages, etc.
    The best thing is to hire both: a web designer for the template and a programmer for coding and others, but there are people who can do them both..and it is a lot cheaper this way
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  • Profile picture of the author Katie_White
    I think its really depends on your requirements, If oyu need static site then you need designer and for dynamic you need programmer
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  • Profile picture of the author Harrison Ortega
    As many have mentioned, try to find a firm who has both a developer and a designer. Or maybe, hire both. Careful with the ones that say they can do both and possible style your hair, do your laundry and fix your car (The ones that knows everything). Ask for proof of designs and programming skills.

    By the way. Static sites are HTML and it is programing not designing as some are saying here.
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    • Profile picture of the author RobertWallace
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    • Profile picture of the author MrYossu
      Originally Posted by Harrison Ortega View Post

      By the way. Static sites are HTML and it is programing not designing as some are saying here.
      Sorry, but I have to disagree here.

      First, "Static sites are HTML" doesn't make any sense. Excluding rare oddities like sites entirely written in Flash (very bad idea), then ALL web sites are HTML. That's the language of the web, and is what is used to tell the browser what top do with the content. Irrespective of the discussion of designer vs programmer, the end result will be HTML. Sure, it may include Javascript, and there's likely to be CSS and maybe other stuff as well, but at the heart of it, there will be HTML.

      Second, HTML is NOT a programming language. By definition, a program does something. HTML (on its own) doesn't "do" anything. HTML is a markup language. It allows you to designate certain parts of the content as a main heading, something else as a subheading, etc. You can mark links, lists, etc. The user agent (most commonly a web browser such as FireFox or IE) will read that markup and translate it into a display style.

      This has nothing to do with programming. To do programming on web sites, you need either (or both of) server-side programming, which is done with things like ASP.NET, PHP and so on, or client-side programming, which is most commonly done with Javascript.

      HTML is not a programming language.

      Strictly speaking, HTML isn't supposed to be used for design either. It's actually intended for marking the structure of the content. CSS is the way to add design to the HTML, but a lot of people (ab)use the HTML for design purposes as well.

      Hope this clarifies matters.
      Alan

      P.S. I have been a web designer/programmer for about 13 years - significantly longer than the vast majority of web designers around. I have studied the subject academically, and I do know what I'm talking about
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      • Profile picture of the author scorpio9
        Absolutely correct MrYossu.
        There is no programming in HTML. Anyone can buy a web design tool such as MS Frontpage, Adobe Dreamweaver, or plain Notepad and create a website without understanding a single line of programming language.

        Hyper Text Markup Language, I believe, was copied from the printing industry and adopted for the web.

        scorpio9


        Originally Posted by MrYossu View Post

        Sorry, but I have to disagree here.

        First, "Static sites are HTML" doesn't make any sense. Excluding rare oddities like sites entirely written in Flash (very bad idea), then ALL web sites are HTML. That's the language of the web, and is what is used to tell the browser what top do with the content. Irrespective of the discussion of designer vs programmer, the end result will be HTML. Sure, it may include Javascript, and there's likely to be CSS and maybe other stuff as well, but at the heart of it, there will be HTML.

        Second, HTML is NOT a programming language. By definition, a program does something. HTML (on its own) doesn't "do" anything. HTML is a markup language. It allows you to designate certain parts of the content as a main heading, something else as a subheading, etc. You can mark links, lists, etc. The user agent (most commonly a web browser such as FireFox or IE) will read that markup and translate it into a display style.

        This has nothing to do with programming. To do programming on web sites, you need either (or both of) server-side programming, which is done with things like ASP.NET, PHP and so on, or client-side programming, which is most commonly done with Javascript.

        HTML is not a programming language.

        Strictly speaking, HTML isn't supposed to be used for design either. It's actually intended for marking the structure of the content. CSS is the way to add design to the HTML, but a lot of people (ab)use the HTML for design purposes as well.

        Hope this clarifies matters.
        Alan

        P.S. I have been a web designer/programmer for about 13 years - significantly longer than the vast majority of web designers around. I have studied the subject academically, and I do know what I'm talking about
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        • Profile picture of the author MrYossu
          Originally Posted by scorpio9 View Post

          Hyper Text Markup Language, I believe, was copied from the printing industry and adopted for the web.
          Actually, HTML is an application of SGML, which is well explained here What is SGML and How Does It Help?

          As far as I remember, SGML was designed for the electronic world rather than the printed one. HTML was an application that was designed for marking up documents, and was adapted (or abused depending on how you look at it) for the web.

          Not that anyone nowadays needs to know any of this stuff . I was just disagreeing with the idea that HTML is a programming language. As you pointed out, it's a markup language, which is significantly different.

          Ta ra
          Alan
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          • Profile picture of the author thriftgirl62
            The 2 best friends any smart business owner has used to be #1 the best Attorney and #2 his Doctor but that has been updated to 3 best friends and guess who's #3 - a good Programmer.

            And for websites, that means a Back-End Programmer to be exact.

            That does NOT include self-taught marketers who claim to be Programmers because they know some HTML, CSS and even php. Stay away from them or risk getting some extra special code added to your website that only another Programmer who knows what to look for can find. That is especially true for turn-key ready to go websites priced so cheap... I don't wonder why. I know why!!

            Now don't hate me because I'm about to get ugly but some people, and you know who you are, sneak extra special code into what they offer right here on this forum. That's not a scam either. It's called price equalization aka getting what you pay for.

            You get a bargain and save $$ - the other guy gets paid the real price when you follow the installation directions which usually includes deleting a directory or certain files so the software will work. Now everyone is equally happy but only IF you actually install and use what you purchased.

            The longer someone does something without getting caught, the bolder they become. Some even offer free installation at the risk of being scrutinized if anything is ever discovered. The first question will be "Who installed it? and Where are the original files?" Hmmm, didn't YOU install the software and delete the evidence? Case closed.

            Real Programmers are not cheap. Most of them are not marketers and they don't even LIKE the sales end of their business. The ones who do their own marketing do not offer bargains or deals you just can't pass up. They ask market price and settle for a little bit less for older products and some run specials along with other 1-time offers that you CAN pass up unless you're in the market for it already.

            Real Programmers build ugly websites that work beautifully from the inside out. But then something happens and your website is not so ugly anymore. The look and feel is different than when your first saw it. Wow, it's looking pretty good now that money is filling up your bank account. This is when you can hire a designer but if people prefer ugly then why bother? Marry a fat ugly wife if you want to be happy for life! Same thing.

            [Disclosure: The following information is from personal knowledge. There are NO affiliate links and they are NOT paid advertisements.]

            These are Real Programmers - and they are the best at what they do. JayJennings.com is the Mohawk Man that if you don't already know, you will soon. His latest software is being launched with a big-name JV Partner that hasn't been made public yet.

            These Programmers have got to be the best kept secrets I've ever discovered in the Internet Marketing Underworld of Hush-Hush. One is The Willmaster and his software is rock solid and hack-free. He's just an all-around good guy that I call a goof-ball for giving away such good value. If you want a REAL PLR product of your own, he's your man.

            But then so is BIG MIKE everyone here already knows. He's another well-kept secret unless you've discovered who he really is!! Last but not least is the great Paul Galloway. Just Google him for details.
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            When you make at least $100+ per month, we split the profit 80/20 and YOU get the 80% Until then, you keep 100% and I'll help you drive traffic, get backlinks and put the domain in your name too!
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      • Profile picture of the author thriftgirl62
        Originally Posted by MrYossu View Post

        Sorry, but I have to disagree here.

        First, "Static sites are HTML" doesn't make any sense. Excluding rare oddities like sites entirely written in Flash (very bad idea), then ALL web sites are HTML.
        I think you mis-understood what he meant by "Static sites are HTML". Do you remember how time-consuming it was updating HTML websites with FRAMES 10 years ago? Programmers were way too expensive to hire unless you had deep pockets. That left web designers who were supposed to be less expensive. HTML using FRAMES was easy enough to learn and that's all they had to use back then unless you were smart enough to hire a Programmer.

        Hundreds, no thousands of designers knew enough HTML to start their own web design and consulting firms and started designing pretty HTML websites with FRAMES for business owners who believed all the promises, projections and what their website would bring to their business. The firms got paid thousands of dollars up-front and were long gone by the time the website owner realized he just paid for a pretty catalog that wouldn't do anything.

        Then came the SEO experts to the rescue. Same thing happened to the same companies all over again. Websites were abandoned and many still don't have a decent website until they hire a Programmer which hasn't changed. They are still expensive but worth every penny in the long run. And they know it.

        Business owners are still not very happy when they're told their website will cost more to FIX than it's worth. Starting over from scratch is a sore spot in the off-line world so your best bet for them is "fix it" by having a designer figure out how to make the new one LOOK the same as before. Whatever works!
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        When you make at least $100+ per month, we split the profit 80/20 and YOU get the 80% Until then, you keep 100% and I'll help you drive traffic, get backlinks and put the domain in your name too!
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      • Profile picture of the author Harrison Ortega
        Originally Posted by MrYossu View Post

        HTML is not a programming language.
        @Alan
        Did I mentioned "programming LANGUAGE" on my post? Or for you, any word "programing" means language?
        As far as I know, "programing" is also known/called as "coding" or vise-versa.

        Oh, let me guess next. "We don't CODE HTML".

        Oh there we go!!!
        Originally Posted by scorpio9 View Post

        There is no programming in HTML
        Really? So, according to you a web PROGRAMMER does not program/code HTML since HTML is not programing right? I believe you took the wordy too literally.

        Anyway; point taken. So, next time should I write "coding" instead of "programing" or just stop web programing/CODING and start doing ballet?

        Static sites are HTML and it is programing not designing as some are saying here.
        Being new to forums participation, I should learn how to write in away so everyone and web GURUS can understand it.

        Making clear for them.
        Static sites or "Flat Page" are often HTML and it deals more with coding, not designing/graphics as some were saying here.
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        • Profile picture of the author MrYossu
          Originally Posted by Harrison Ortega View Post

          @Alan
          Did I mentioned "programming LANGUAGE" on my post? Or for you, any word "programing" means language?
          As far as I know, "programing" is also known/called as "coding" or vise-versa.
          I guess we have a misunderstanding here. You actually said "Static sites are HTML and it is programing not designing" which I took (perhaps incorrectly) to mean that you thought of writing HTML as programming. It's not.

          Programming is writing code that does things. The web browser I'm using right now is a program, as is Word, iTunes, etc.

          Writing HTML is coding for sure, but it's not programming.

          Sorry if I misunderstood you, but to be honest, I'm not sure I understood the rest of your reply, so I'm going to stop here and carry on reading this pointless thread

          Ta ra
          Alan
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  • Profile picture of the author metabinltd
    Programmers focus on the back-end and database,
    Designers focus on the front-end and graphics

    But its all blurring as programmers and designers as they gain more experience we pick up more skill in the other area along the way.
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  • Profile picture of the author webmaster705
    You should go for programmer ,he will do the both for you i.e. design and program
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    • Profile picture of the author jminkler
      Originally Posted by webmaster705 View Post

      You should go for programmer ,he will do the both for you i.e. design and program
      Huhh?? A programmer is now a designer too?
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  • Profile picture of the author joset783
    It is good to go for somebody who can do both programming and design but the challenge is that you have to do your due diligence to find someone who combines both skills. Oftentimes, a very savvy software developer considers web design distracting from the core programming tasks at hand.
    Programmers often have knowledge of basic web design but may not be able to go deep into core aspects of web designs such as graphic and colour blending.
    So, it all boils down to what level of web design task you're interested in. If it's not too complicated design then, you easily find a programmer who can do that for you. I am saying this from a personal experience as a programmer.
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  • Profile picture of the author amritpal
    if u want to made a website you know both things web design and programming and you also Learn where your traffic is coming from, your most popular pages, the keywords that visitors use to find you in Google, and how changing your homepage influences the path visitors take through your site.
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  • Profile picture of the author E. Fire
    >> but what would be the difference between a web designer vs a programmer? <<

    A web designer specializes in the look and feel of the website, primarily the layout, template or theme, graphics.

    Designers can sometimes handle light coding, but work that involves some coding (hacks) would better be described as web development, although I often see what I would consider web developers calling themselves "designers". Web development also includes usability concerns, basic SEO, navigation, etc.

    A programmer specializes in creating web applications - heavy coding. That's usually all they do.

    It also depends on mindset to some degree.

    For example: As one who does both design and programming, I generally call myself a web developer. People tend to think I have great design skills but I don't consider myself a designer because I don't do what I consider "killer graphics" and I don't work in Photoshop (I use Fireworks).

    When I used to take on heavy coding jobs in languages I was proficient in, I called myself a programmer. Of the three, I always considered programmer to have the most responsibility (and stress) so I quoted a higher rate for that.


    >>if i'm looking to hire someone to make a website
    should i look for someone that is a programmer or a designer
    does the designer do both?<<

    Probably a designer or a developer, but that depends on your needs.

    >>what would the advantage of a programmer be?<<

    For most "make a website" situations a programmer would be overkill. IF you want to make the next Facebook or Amazon, then you'll need a programmer(s).


    Regards,

    Kathryn
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    • Profile picture of the author scorpio9
      Lets compare a website to a car

      someone to make the engine work > programmer
      some to make the bodywork styling > designer

      If you go to a big website development company they will most likely have programmers and designers doing their bit for your design

      If you go to a small one man "team" he will probably be the designer and programmer.

      Do you need a designer and a programer or someone who can do both? it depends on what you want your website to do.

      If you a thinking of having a wordpress blog with a few pages good optimization you probably just need a good designer who is able to install the WP script, install a good theme and some basic plugins to make the site secure and perform good SEO. programming functions is not really required to do this because it is relatively straight forward.

      If you want to go beyond the common Wordpress stuff such as setting up membership sites ecommerce sites then you will probably looking at a programmer/designer. This will involve configuration of more complex software, it does not mean any programming will be involved but some understanding of software programming will be a great help.

      If you want a piece of software written for you then yes a programmer is the expert and the person to hire. If you want an amazing Wordpress theme then the designer is the expert and the person to hire

      A web developer understands other aspects of online business, such as traffic, seo, autoresponders, backlinking and other vital things that neither a programmer or designer would be too interested in

      that make sense?

      I speak from personal experience doing both programming and web designing but I now consider myself a web developer

      good luck

      scorpio9
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  • Profile picture of the author mattalways
    Programmers do everything under the hood. From your Wordpress customizations & setups, to your custom scripts to check your BMI or whatever.

    Designers just do the design of the site. How it looks. If you have a designer and a programmer working together, the programmer would build the site and then add the design to it. So when the programmer is done with all of the codes and it is ready to go, the designer would go in and make it look how they want it. The problem is that the designer either needs to send this to the programmer to add to the site, or the designer needs to be a bit of a programmer as well, because things can get pretty confusing just changing the design on a site. It needs to be coded with CSS/HTML and sometimes you need to get in and use the backend scripting like PHP.

    My advantage is that I am both a programmer, and a designer. I have done everything from custom Wordpress work, to custom software to manage a unique area of a business.

    I have had clients in the past just send me PSD designs though and I would then build a website that looks like that. That just included setting up a CMS of some sort, coding & optimizing the design, adding the design & code to the CMS.

    If I could only have 1, I would for sure choose programmer. Maybe because there are so many designers around, but I'm really just thinking that if you only had the designer, your site could just be an image on the page (not saying all designers can't do HTML/CSS, but I've run into a few). With a programmer they can build the entire site, and then it is ready for a design when you can want to get one.
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  • Profile picture of the author MrYossu
    Originally Posted by seangreen View Post

    this might sound like a dumb question..
    but what would be the difference between a web designer vs a programmer?

    if i'm looking to hire someone to make a website
    should i look for someone that is a programmer or a designer
    does the designer do both?
    what would the advantage of a programmer be?

    thanks for your time.
    A programmer should be able to produce a web site that has all of the functionality that you require (dynamic interaction, etc), but outputs plain HTML. A designer can then create a pleasing graphical look based on that HTML. The two can work independently without problem.

    As has been said already, you will find people who claim to be able to do both, but it's extremely rare that they will be able to do both well. Most will be able to do one well, and the other moderately. One is left-brain and one is right-brain. Very few people can excel at both.

    Web designers are very cheap, so it's worth having a programmer create the functional bits, and getting a separate designer to make the graphical look for it afterwards. All you need to do is ensure that the programmer understands HTML well enough that he/she produces valid, well structured HTML. If he/she does, then a good designer will be able to do anything you want graphically.

    Hope this helps,
    Alan
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    • Profile picture of the author scorpio9
      I disagree Alan
      You don't require a programmer for web site creation so much these days, take a Content Management System like Wordpress for example (though strictly speaking Wordpress is not a CMS but is used in this way). A Web designer can design a very robust website and have very little programming skills. He need to know what website features are required and find appropiate plugins to make it work.

      A good CMS tool (Joomla, Mambo, Drupal, Xoops etc) together with plugins and addons available today eliminate most of the manual coding that was necessary years ago. Designers are coming to the fore because they learn to use tools that speed up web designs, however, I do agree there are some tasks within website creation that still require programming skills.

      incidentally, I work with around 40 programmers on a daily basis, not one of them can design a website beyond the basic .

      scorpio9

      Originally Posted by MrYossu View Post

      A programmer should be able to produce a web site that has all of the functionality that you require (dynamic interaction, etc), but outputs plain HTML. A designer can then create a pleasing graphical look based on that HTML. The two can work independently without problem.

      As has been said already, you will find people who claim to be able to do both, but it's extremely rare that they will be able to do both well. Most will be able to do one well, and the other moderately. One is left-brain and one is right-brain. Very few people can excel at both.

      Web designers are very cheap, so it's worth having a programmer create the functional bits, and getting a separate designer to make the graphical look for it afterwards. All you need to do is ensure that the programmer understands HTML well enough that he/she produces valid, well structured HTML. If he/she does, then a good designer will be able to do anything you want graphically.

      Hope this helps,
      Alan
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      • Profile picture of the author MrYossu
        Originally Posted by scorpio9 View Post

        I disagree Alan
        You don't require a programmer for web site creation so much these days, take a Content Management System like Wordpress for example (though strictly speaking Wordpress is not a CMS but is used in this way). A Web designer can design a very robust website and have very little programming skills. He need to know what website features are required and find appropiate plugins to make it work.
        Actually, you're not disagreeing at all, you're talking about a slightly different issue, and I completely agree with you. The original poster asked the difference between a web designer and a programmer. I addressed the suggestion that HTML was a programming language. As to whether you need to do any actually programming to have an interactive site, well you ahve pointed out very well that you don't. I have no disagreement with that at all, it's just a different point.

        Originally Posted by scorpio9 View Post

        A good CMS tool (Joomla, Mambo, Drupal, Xoops etc) together with plugins and addons available today eliminate most of the manual coding that was necessary years ago. Designers are coming to the fore because they learn to use tools that speed up web designs, however, I do agree there are some tasks within website creation that still require programming skills.
        Yup, these systems are great if you want to do something within their realm, but if you need something else, you need to get programming. That's where I come in

        Originally Posted by scorpio9 View Post

        incidentally, I work with around 40 programmers on a daily basis, not one of them can design a website beyond the basic .

        scorpio9
        I know, I'm one of them! I'm actually better than most programmers at design, but I know fully well I'm nowhere near as good a a proper designer.

        Ta ra
        Alan
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  • Profile picture of the author jminkler
    Get a designer a 99Designs
    Get a different coder at oDesk - one who has taken the relevant tests

    Is also best to break up large tasks into smaller ones with DIFFERENT coders .. ie.

    Steps for medium to large sites (not blogs - go use wordpress on your own):
    1) If you can't create a design document - hire a project manager at oDesk
    2) Not only are there differences between designers and coders sometimes there is a difference between frontend coders and backend coders - Look for a UI ninja (javascript/css/accessibility) and a backend wizard (php/java/perl). The backend coders will make your server perform following the guidelines set out by the project manager's design. The UI coder will hook the backend code to the frontend.
    3) Be sure the PM picks a framework to use (Zend,Symfony,CI,Cake -php examples) this will enforce MVC setups where the UI and designer can work independent of the backend coder.
    4) If the timeline isn't going as fast as you'd like you can now hire more coders to finish out smaller details.
    5) USE VERSIONING SOFTWARE - svn, csv etc. Then your developers and designers can "check out" all the code that is being worked on, install it locally and work independently of the other coders. Any changes can then be merged together.
    Following this process, you avoid having the project just fall apart and you searching for another freelancer to finish the entire job on his own. You'll also save $ in the long run.
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  • Profile picture of the author tahersaid
    I think you should search for both if you want a unique website.
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  • Profile picture of the author michaellive1986
    that's a lazy answer.....
    if you want to it then try it one by one...study it... practice makes perfect.... but nobody is perfect.... so why practice?..Lol just kidding....

    here, the best way here is that try collecting info about it..you know there are so many good programmers and good designers here.... all of their suggestions are excellent..before anything else be sure that you have the guts in doing all of these.. am i right?

    cheers
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  • Profile picture of the author mattalways
    I do both programming and design. I have now worked with a few pretty large sized companies.

    I taught everything to myself. I wouldn't say I'm the best, but no matter what a client is after, I can find a way to make it happen better than what they will get elsewhere.

    Just keep working at it. I would say that you probably need to have an eye for design as I'm not sure you can really learn that lol. If you are pretty smart and have patience, you can learn to code. You might not ever be the best, but that's life lol. There is always going to be people that are better at it than you. Just take your time and see where it takes you!
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  • Profile picture of the author georgeg_g
    Ignore all posts and read this cause either are written by non-programers or "web designers" or just clueless people that saw an ad and try to mokey money in the internet,or just saying bull**** to promote a product(read few posts above).

    Am an IT student and enthusiast,and a.... "designer"(read below)

    A programmer is a person with ACTUAL knowledge and skills he learned throughout years of practice.
    An internet designer can be a person who doesn't even know how to make a folder in desktop (literally).

    Lets clear once and for all the myth surrounding the "designer"... people as "web designers" don't exist,anything that a web designer does can be done by a person with or without any kind of artistic skills.

    Programmers can do everything a designer does ,a designer can't do anything a programmer does.
    If you went to college to "study" it then you threw years or your lives.
    Its totally pointless,just a pseudo-profession so people don't feel completely useless.
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    • Profile picture of the author kiopa
      Banned
      Originally Posted by georgeg_g View Post

      Programmers can do everything a designer does ,a designer can't do anything a programmer does.
      If you went to college to "study" it then you threw years or your lives.
      Its totally pointless,just a pseudo-profession so people don't feel completely useless.
      Wow, I don't know how to tell you how wrong you are. :-)

      Designer = Someone who makes things look pretty.

      Developer = Someone who makes things work correctly (accounts, orders, lead capture, CRM, etc.).

      Simple as that. :-) And if you think one can do the other's job with quality, you're either sadly mistaken, or are happy with mediocre quality work.
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      • Profile picture of the author mattalways
        Originally Posted by kiopa View Post

        Wow, I don't know how to tell you how wrong you are. :-)

        Designer = Someone who makes things look pretty.

        Developer = Someone who makes things work correctly (accounts, orders, lead capture, CRM, etc.).
        I agree lol. Good thing he cleared that up for everyone (sarcasm) lol

        Simple as that. :-) And if you think one can do the other's job with quality, you're either sadly mistaken, or are happy with mediocre quality work.
        You're wrong there though. Just because you are one or the other, doesn't mean someone out there can't do both.

        Honestly though, this is a really stupid debate lol.
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        • Profile picture of the author seangreen
          wow. can't believe this thread is still going on.. thanks guys.

          I'm actually a designer (a graphics designer)
          and i was looking to expand into webdesign.

          i don't know enough about webdesign. and i know nothing about programming.

          so i'm looking to hire someone full time to join my company.

          I'm still not sure what to look for..

          i just hired a webdesigner... i liked his mockup - i paid him...
          and then he coded the site... and it was terrible.
          but, since i paid him.. he just disappeared. :confused:

          anyhow, now i'm just wondering if i should just learn how to customize wordpress themes or to start the process all over..
          to look for what???? web designer? programmer??
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    • Profile picture of the author mattalways
      Originally Posted by georgeg_g View Post

      Ignore all posts and read this cause either are written by non-programers or "web designers" or just clueless people that saw an ad and try to mokey money in the internet,or just saying bull**** to promote a product(read few posts above).

      Am an IT student and enthusiast,and a.... "designer"(read below)

      A programmer is a person with ACTUAL knowledge and skills he learned throughout years of practice.
      An internet designer can be a person who doesn't even know how to make a folder in desktop (literally).

      Lets clear once and for all the myth surrounding the "designer"... people as "web designers" don't exist,anything that a web designer does can be done by a person with or without any kind of artistic skills.

      Programmers can do everything a designer does ,a designer can't do anything a programmer does.
      If you went to college to "study" it then you threw years or your lives.
      Its totally pointless,just a pseudo-profession so people don't feel completely useless.
      This post is going nowhere. I know many programmers that couldn't design a website to save their life. It's like they haven't even browsed the web before. Sure anyone could "design" a site, but I'm not talking about those pieces of junk sites that wouldn't sell unless you had pro salesman qualities.

      I agree that most designers can't do what programmers do though. I would say that most web designers, if serious, evolve into programmers because it is required.

      I don't believe that it's impossible for someone to be both a designer and a developer. Yes there are both designers and developers. I would say though that a designer without any programming skills is close to useless unless they are pulling off some crazy good quality designs. Believe it or not, there are people out there just doing designs for coders to put together. Not talking full on programmers, but sent to other people that can code the framework.

      I agree, there was a guy above just promoting random names from this site lol. Who knows if they are actually any good. Noone asked who they should hire, so I would say that most of those people are completely useless for people really look for quality lol. There are tons of great designers and developers out there. Not hard to find. Most people are stupid though. You get what you pay for. Just make sure you look at what they have done in the past.
      Signature

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    • Profile picture of the author MrYossu
      Originally Posted by georgeg_g View Post

      Ignore all posts
      Including yours of course

      Originally Posted by georgeg_g View Post

      and read this cause either are written by non-programers or "web designers" or just clueless people that saw an ad and try to mokey money in the internet,or just saying bull**** to promote a product(read few posts above).

      Am an IT student and enthusiast,and a.... "designer"(read below)
      You forgot to add that you're also wrong, very wrong.

      Originally Posted by georgeg_g View Post

      A programmer is a person with ACTUAL knowledge and skills he learned throughout years of practice.
      An internet designer can be a person who doesn't even know how to make a folder in desktop (literally).
      And who laid down these rock-solid definitions? Oh wait, it was you wasn't it?

      Well, you are free to define the terms however you like, but it doesn't alter the reality around you.

      Being a programmer means you write programs. The amount of experience you have makes you (wait for it...) an experienced programmer, or an inexperienced programmer.

      If I were to get a job selling widgets, then I could justifiably call myself a widget salesman. I'd be a very inexperienced one as I've never sold widgets before, but I would be a widget salesman. Experience does not define the job.

      Originally Posted by georgeg_g View Post

      Lets clear once and for all the myth surrounding the "designer"... people as "web designers" don't exist,
      Oh dear, I know a few people who will be quite disappointed to find out they don't exist! I guess it will save them having to pay tax though

      Originally Posted by georgeg_g View Post

      anything that a web designer does can be done by a person with or without any kind of artistic skills.
      Anything? You mean like design a web site that looks professional and impressive? Oh dear, so it's you that's responsible for all those junk sites around is it.

      By your logic, anything that a print designer does can be done by a person with or without any kind of artistic skills. After all, what's the difference? They're both expected to create designs.

      Originally Posted by georgeg_g View Post

      Programmers can do everything a designer does
      Everything except design of course. Very few programmers can do that.

      Originally Posted by georgeg_g View Post

      a designer can't do anything a programmer does.
      What, nothing at all?

      Do you ever get out? I mean do you talk to real people, or do you spend your life in this fantasy world? I guess I probably did the same when I was a student.

      Originally Posted by georgeg_g View Post

      If you went to college to "study" it then you threw years or your lives.
      Its totally pointless,just a pseudo-profession so people don't feel completely useless.
      I'm not even sure where to begin with this wild inaccuracy. I don't think I'll bother, as I can't imagine that you'll listen.

      Still, you said you were a student. I guess you've a lot to learn about life yet, so we'll let you off. Wait until you've been out in the real world for a few years, we'll see if you still say the same.

      Thanks for an amusing post. I hope no-one took it seriously.

      Ta ra
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  • Profile picture of the author ucajack
    Well you made a small mistake i think you asked him to prepare the design mockup,you liked it and then also asked him to code.seldom a good designer is a good programmer.i would suggest that if you have the design and you like it ,then seek the service of a programmer.Btw what are the mistakes in your website can you share that?
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  • Profile picture of the author seangreen
    his portfolio was beautiful.. and he said he programs well...


    the design was very professional looking..
    the coded site was not ..

    It might have just needed more tweaking...
    but... he has disappeared now.
    haven't heard from him all week.
    frustrating.
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    • Profile picture of the author ucajack
      Originally Posted by seangreen View Post

      his portfolio was beautiful.. and he said he programs well...


      the design was very professional looking..
      the coded site was not ..

      It might have just needed more tweaking...
      but... he has disappeared now.
      haven't heard from him all week.
      frustrating.
      thats what i said that you allowed yourself to misled by the portfolio which only depicted the websites he designed. he offered no proof of his being a good programmer and you also sought none.
      now try to minimise your losses.first review the design if it is good enough.if it is then you can reuse it and use the services of a programmer.
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  • Profile picture of the author nazar2010
    Banned
    [DELETED]
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    • Profile picture of the author lencemark
      My defination for web designer who makes the simple layouts and websites on regular basis.

      Web programmer than would be who makes dynamic applications. Web programmer has liitle bit of designing information but better at making applications.
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  • Profile picture of the author mattalways
    I think the difference is usually that the people that can do both, can work for themselves. It would take quite a bit more work to get started doing projects for people if you only have 1 of the skills. Not impossible, just would really help if you can do it all!

    If you need a design coded, or some functionality added to it, give me an e-mail and I'll help you out. I'm confident that we can work together more in the future after I show you what I can do.

    Also, wow, a second page on this lol.
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  • Profile picture of the author ChopSuey
    I would hire a Programmer AND a Designer. I tink it would be best
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  • Profile picture of the author saviourdlima
    Banned
    [DELETED]
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    • Profile picture of the author ellistev
      A web programmer knows how to make things work, but a web designer just knows how to make things pretty.
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  • Profile picture of the author fiberglass
    Thanks! This thread is informative but I have a question: Which of the two is a requirement to start internet marketing? Is being a Web designer enough? Are there any ready made designs that is ready to use that only needs some re designing without any programming modification? I would be happy if somebody can provide the list where I can get them. I newbie like me would be very thankful!
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    • Profile picture of the author thriftgirl62
      Originally Posted by fiberglass View Post

      Thanks! This thread is informative but I have a question: Which of the two is a requirement to start internet marketing? Is being a Web designer enough? Are there any ready made designs that is ready to use that only needs some re designing without any programming modification? I would be happy if somebody can provide the list where I can get them. I newbie like me would be very thankful!
      If you're serious, I've got whatever you need and a designer is like saying you need your car re-painted. For what? What you need to be concerned with is WHAT do you want your site to be about? WHY? What's the reason for what you're doing? Money is a result not a reason.

      Whatever it is, let me know right here and I'll give it to you - everything you need based on what you WANT. What might that be? Do you want your own Social Network like Facebook? Your own micro blog like Twitter? Local search engine/directory like Google? Dating site? Weight loss? What??

      You've got a forum full of witnesses here - I do what I say. Simple. Just do it.
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      I retired in 2005 at 43 and now I give away websites like these for FREE [hosting excluded]... www.jahda.com and www.cez1.net and www.nethometown.com and www.chattermarketingengine.com and www.productioncarcare.com and www.ez1headlightrestorationkit.com
      When you make at least $100+ per month, we split the profit 80/20 and YOU get the 80% Until then, you keep 100% and I'll help you drive traffic, get backlinks and put the domain in your name too!
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  • Profile picture of the author khay
    To tell you the truth, I've never met someone who can code and design and be above average in each. If you're serious, have a designer build some photoshop files for the visual side of your site, and a proper developer to create it (if it's more than just a static site).
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    • Profile picture of the author thriftgirl62
      khay is correct!
      To tell you the truth, I've never met someone who can code and design and be above average in each.
      Designers made so many useless websites from 1999 until around 2004, 2005 there wasn't much Programmers could do except start from scratch. Nobody understood it was the same thing as if you hired an interior designer to build your house to save some money. Why hire both?

      New owners move in but they have to call a plumber and pay more money to make the bathtub/showers work and install toilets with lids that would open so they can use it for more than a pretty stool. The kind of sinks that have some water coming out is always good for washing your hands, face, hair, etc..

      Let's not even think about the electricity -- who built that house? But it's so pretty but not really. Things that don't work change into worse than ugly!! Useless. Business owners thought they were being ripped off again and didn't trust anyone who along after all those "web design agency" people were finished. Without Programmers there would be no php, java anything, dynamic sites and wordpress would not exist. Programmers make ugly websites that work. People who come to your site to buy love them. Shoppers and browsers do not. Who do you cater to? The buyers or the shoppers?

      Web designers don't program computers. They mistakenly thought HTML was programming and made claims that didn't happen. Programmers already know they can't design their way out a paper bag on Halloween.

      They put that in writing before they start a new job. There's an old joke that says the only reason Programmers have push button phones is because you can't buy rotary phones anymore.

      Websites, for the most part, do not need a Programmer to make them work anymore. Website building and blogs are self-programmed now so anyone can build their own website if you just READ. The videos are useless unless you watch the video and do what's it's showing you how to do on your computer. If you don't, there is not way you will remember what he just showed you.

      I just finished a brand new social website last night - Www.ez1domains.net :: Index :: - that's what a new website looks like before you configure the settings, add content, themes, and all that stuff that goes bump in the night. You might want to check and see what Dedicated Server, Managed Hosting, Web Hosting by Rackspace Hosting is up to these days. They always keep up with new technology and with cloudfront it just might be affordable for what you get.
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      I retired in 2005 at 43 and now I give away websites like these for FREE [hosting excluded]... www.jahda.com and www.cez1.net and www.nethometown.com and www.chattermarketingengine.com and www.productioncarcare.com and www.ez1headlightrestorationkit.com
      When you make at least $100+ per month, we split the profit 80/20 and YOU get the 80% Until then, you keep 100% and I'll help you drive traffic, get backlinks and put the domain in your name too!
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  • Profile picture of the author marck_don
    They should both know a little abotuthe other's job. The designer is, of course, the guy who makes what you see and how you see it. But it's the programers job to make sure that it displays correctly. If the designer doesn't know any HTML, then he might make all sorts of designs that aren't possible.
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  • Profile picture of the author Enetwork
    If you think for professional and serious work u need to hire designer and developer.

    Well, there are some people who know design and programming both. But that is not any professional work because graphic design/web design and web development is a sea itself. noone can be skilled in both sea.

    Yes, some exceptional can be found.

    How the web site is build:
    PSD = html/css=development (php,mysql or .net +javascript etc)
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  • Profile picture of the author Jinil Sung
    Banned
    If you really want to operate the e-commerce web site, you need both.

    Web Designer is in charge of creating or updating static web pages. Designer's role is following.

    - creating images in photoshop or illustrator => needs art skills
    - creating or updating html => must know css and java script
    - understanding php, jsp, or asp scripts to separate views from dynamic contents in such server side scripts => only updates views

    Programmer is in charge of User's Action Management, next View Management, and Data Processing. Programmer's role is following.

    - creating or updating dynamic content in web pages
    - designing User Interface as simple as possible
    - estimate concurrency of how many transactions occur, and capacity of how many users access at a time => consider these when you design systems
    - implementing how to control user's request and invoke a proper service for this
    - providing all the services as secured and transactional.
    - guru on back-end technology to design logical database and make a query for user's views. => in charge of data integrity
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  • Profile picture of the author thriftgirl62
    Social Media Websites work because a Programmer wrote the code that makes it work. It does things a designer doesn't know how to do.
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    I retired in 2005 at 43 and now I give away websites like these for FREE [hosting excluded]... www.jahda.com and www.cez1.net and www.nethometown.com and www.chattermarketingengine.com and www.productioncarcare.com and www.ez1headlightrestorationkit.com
    When you make at least $100+ per month, we split the profit 80/20 and YOU get the 80% Until then, you keep 100% and I'll help you drive traffic, get backlinks and put the domain in your name too!
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  • Profile picture of the author propecon
    In my opinion, web designer is more like artistic graphic concepts to do design web page layout using Photo shop/Paint Pro Shop, Illustrator, and any artwork designing. Also incorporate template layout into web page. Very similar to desktop publisher (Microsoft Publisher).

    Web developer/programmer is more like advanced technical concept to do code the programming employing actions/behaviors resulting in PHP, HTML, CSS, XML, database, Flash Action script, JavaScript, ASP, C++, etc on the website. Also parsing any external files such as PD F, Doc, video files, audio file, mp3 into web page and do web designing job as I mention above.

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  • Profile picture of the author alexievici
    Hmm web designer vs. web programmer, that's a question that's not even supposed to be asked.
    All of you using Wordpress, Durpal and other "self-programmed" applications, who do you think coded those? The elves of the Internet?
    Who do you think made it easy for you to apply a beautifully designed theme over your Wordpress blog?
    Everything that moves in the computer world was PROGRAMMED to do so, your cursor moves over the monitor when you move your mouse because it was PROGRAMMED to do that.
    Ok, programmer rant over .

    When starting an online business (or anything else) there are some things you have to do:
    - Have a perfectly clear view of what you want to accomplish, only after that start looking for solutions, you'll find a lot of FREE or reasonable priced solutions for you project, but make sure you read about them and see if they meet your current and FUTURE requirements, modifying them later might prove to be more costly than building from scratch in the first place.

    - Know what you CAN do / what you CANNOT do. Is that easy.

    Can you install a Wordpress blog and configure it?
    Yes - Get a nice theme (free or paid) and you're good to go.
    No - Hire someone who does.

    As a conclusion there is no "magic recipe" of the people involved to build a website, you can't say that "2 designers and 3 programmers" it's all you need, every website has it's requirements from very low (think of a 1 page website) to extremely high (think of Google, Yahoo, eBay or other mammoths)
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  • Profile picture of the author kdavies
    A designer handles the look of a site.

    A developer makes it work.
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  • Profile picture of the author BigDaddys101
    Just a quick question.....

    If there is a difference between a Web Designer and a Web Developer then why do most major Universities offer a course called "Web Design" that covers all topics that were mentioned in this thread?

    The bottom line is always know you are hiring to do your work, ask to see some work they have done and verify it.

    On top of it all expect to pay a little more in the end when it is finally tweaked the way you want the end result to be. It will still be cheaper than finding another coder to decipher and then re write your code.

    You get what you pay for
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  • Profile picture of the author ramshankar
    If u want to make a attractive and money earning website it may be any kind of project ,then you need them both(programmer and designer) but if u hire a single person with both the knowledge then you are a lucky guy because if 2 persons with different talents work on a same project then ego will develop between those 2 and the project will lose its shape
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  • Profile picture of the author rypher21
    Lets put it in the simpler way...

    web designer is responsible and handles the front-end (look and feel)
    web programmer is responsible to the back-end (processes and functions)
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    • Profile picture of the author ipwperia
      This two kind of job making on two different ways on the website
      the web designer is to make the site more artistic
      the programmer is making the logic & mathematic way
      Cheers
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  • Profile picture of the author sbarrow
    Designer = visual
    Programmer = backend

    You'll find that generally, the best designers are not programmers and vice versa. There are exceptions for this rule, but a programmer must be a more technical person, whereas a designer must be more creative. I myself am a programmer, I will admit that I suck at design.
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  • Profile picture of the author drewgrantt1
    Designer: Photoshop/graphics, layout/semantics, CSS/XHTML, Javascript/AJAX (at least a basic understanding or the ability to apply frameworks), and an understanding of the limitations and needs for the backend programming so they can design the site with those in mind.

    Developer: A programming language (the more the better), database design, basic HTML (for integration), and the skillset to properly code a backend based on the scale of the project.
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  • Profile picture of the author mahesh2010
    Web designers are little knowledge about programming because it's able to work properly and site going to navigates the structure of page and feature of page. Web Programmers are important work in back end process. Programmers are well know programming language and then skill set properly code in back end based on all projects.
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  • Profile picture of the author iamscottj
    Simple answer to the simple question... A web designer designs the layout and the look and feel for the website. In other terms, he uses tools like Photoshop to design logo, banners, menu bars and backgrounds for the website. He also take cares of the CSS (styles). In contrast to that a web developer writes code for the website. He implements the business logic required if any. He also takes care that the validations are performed before they are entered to the database. The communication from the webpage to the database and vice versa is all done by programmer.
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  • Profile picture of the author harris2107
    its all depend on ur requiremnt, if u want to design ur website then u should hire web desighner elsr if u want to write some application on that web then u should go with programmer.if ur requiremnt is both then u can hire both.
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  • Profile picture of the author jacobycage
    I think it's really depends on your provisions, If oyu need static site then you need designer and for go-ahead you need programmer
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    • Profile picture of the author adammacbell
      you have hit the nail on the head. I, for instance migrated to "web design" after programming for some years. My graphics design skills is just average at best, i have to rely mostly on templates and browsing countless sites before coming up with a design, but when it comes to scripting whether client-sided like jscript,vbscript or server-sided like perl,asp,php,mysql,asp.net i can handle those ones pretty easy, that will qualify me as a web programmer if we are to speak facts.
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      • Profile picture of the author Sam1985
        I think if you want to hire a web designer then he should have knowledge of both web designing and programming will give better result to you.
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