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Javascript toolkit / starting point better than handcoding?

by godinu
10 replies
Hi there, can anyone recommend a free javascript starter tool that would help end vast amounts of hand coding? Something fairly simple such as: you tell it you want a dropdown menu with 10 options, when to calculate, etc.

I am fairly new to javascript and i understand and have hand coded some things, but it would seem a lot faster if something precoded for me. thanks!
#handcoding #javascript #point #starting #toolkit
  • Profile picture of the author Brandon Tanner
    jQuery simplifies just about about every part of Javascript, and requires a LOT less coding to do the same exact tasks.

    jQuery: The Write Less, Do More, JavaScript Library

    Also there are TONS of jQuery plugins out there, which means that just about any type of widget / functionality you require has already been coded for you.
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  • Profile picture of the author godinu
    Thanks, I'll check it out. What I'm trying to do is fairly simple, I'm sure, with the right tools.
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  • Profile picture of the author Sitesupplier
    Originally Posted by godinu View Post

    I am fairly new to javascript and i understand and have hand coded some things, but it would seem a lot faster if something precoded for me. thanks!
    Great way to not learn how to program. Honestly, why bother learning to write code if all you want is to have code produced for you? Libraries such as jQuery and MooTools aren't going to teach you anything about programming, all they'll teach you is how to use the library in question.

    What happens when something in the library isn't working as expected, or is somehow bugged because you're trying to use it for something it wasn't supposed to be used for? How will you know what to do? How will you debug it?

    Libraries are there for people with a solid, demonstrable understanding of their given language. They were created for experienced developers to speed up application development, they weren't created for beginners to produce fast apps because they can't be bothered to write code.

    If you're not even interested in learning JavaScript/client-side development, I suppose it doesn't even matter. However, if that were the case you probably wouldn't even be bothering with jQuery.

    Take it from me, don't learn jQuery if you want to learn JavaScript. Don't learn a library if you want to learn programming... code it raw.
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    • Profile picture of the author Brandon Tanner
      @ SiteSupplier... the OP didn't say they want to learn Javascript, but that they want a "tool that would help end vast amounts of hand coding".

      And for that, jQuery fits the bill perfectly.

      That said, if the OP actually does want to learn coding fundamentals (which I strongly recommend), then it would be just as easy (if not easier) to learn jQuery from scratch as it would be to learn traditional Javascript from scratch.

      If I had to learn one of those from scratch all over again, there's no question which one I'd pick! jQuery, hands down.

      To the OP... if you want to get involved with jQuery, my suggestion would be that you learn basic Javascript / jQuery fundamentals before you start using any of the "copy and paste" plugins out there. That way... whenever you want to customize a plugin (or if you need to troubleshoot a problem), you'll know exactly what to do.
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      • Profile picture of the author Sitesupplier
        I don't understand your points. How is it possible to learn to program in a given language, if all you do is use a library? A library is just a tool written in the language, so it becomes a necessity to first know how the language works, at least on a minor level, before delving into a library such as jQuery.

        I realise that libraries are useful and help speed up development projects, but learning to program in a library without ever bothering to learn the language in which it was written is like trying to build a house without knowing anything about architecture or structural engineering. It doesn't make sense and eventually you will require an understanding of what you're doing.

        It makes more sense to first learn the basics, theory and principles and then move on to development tools, like jQuery.

        Just my 2c.
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        • Profile picture of the author Brandon Tanner
          Originally Posted by Sitesupplier View Post

          I don't understand your points.
          When I made the recommendation to "learn jQuery from scratch"... of course that means that you should understand the absolute basics of Javascript like strings, variables, functions, etc (which takes what... a whole afternoon to learn?).

          But as soon as you understand that, there's virtually no task that you can perform in traditional Javascript, that you can't code much quicker and more efficiently in jQuery.

          Perhaps a little analogy would help...

          Let's say that you require transportation to get from your house to the grocery store. You could ride your bicycle there (Javascript), or you could drive your car there (jQuery).

          Now, if you simply want to drive your car there, then there is no reason that you need to learn how to ride a bicycle. All you need to know is how to drive a car.

          And if your car happens to break down on the way to the store, then knowing how to repair a bicycle is not going to be of much help. What you would need to know at that point is how to repair a car (or at the very least, you would need to know how to call a tow truck!)

          Now, maybe you have a lot of free time on your hands, and you prefer to ride a bicycle everywhere. Nothing wrong with that. But you shouldn't get mad at people who drive cars.

          I know that's a crude analogy, but...you get the point.
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          • Profile picture of the author Sitesupplier
            Originally Posted by Brandon Tanner;7070121
            Perhaps a little analogy would help...

            Let's say that you require transportation to get from your house to the grocery store. You could ride your bicycle there (Javascript), or you could drive your car there (jQuery).

            Now, if you simply want to drive your car there, then there is no reason that you [I

            need[/I] to learn how to ride a bicycle. All you need to know is how to drive a car.

            And if your car happens to break down on the way to the store, then knowing how to repair a bicycle is not going to be of much help. What you would need to know at that point is how to repair a car (or at the very least, you would need to know how to call a tow truck!)

            Now, maybe you have a lot of free time on your hands, and you prefer to ride a bicycle everywhere. Nothing wrong with that. But you shouldn't get mad at people who drive cars.

            I know that's a crude analogy, but...you get the point.
            I'm not sure I can agree with this analogy. Choosing to ride either a bike or a car is fine, but you must first learn the roads. Learning the roads is akin to learning the fundamental principles and methodologies of the language in question, choosing to ride or drive is like choosing to write raw or use a library. Either way, you still need to know where you're going and how you're getting there, which to me means learning the language first.

            As I said previously, I understand the benefits of a library, I just don't see them as tools beginners should use for the reasons mentioned above. As chretit mentioned, libraries are bloated resource hogging scripts anyway. The (uncompressed) jQuery library is what, almost 10,000 lines of code? That's quite a bit of code to just dump into a project.

            JavaScript is a slow language as it is, without a 10k line library slowing it up even more. I can't actually claim this with conviction since I've never benchmarked, I wonder if anyone has any statistics to show?
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  • Profile picture of the author chretit
    Even though JQuery is a high level library you'll probably find it too low level still. I think you're looking for an equivalent of WYSIWYG for JavaScript which as far as I'm aware doesn't exist.
    JQuery while abstracting a lot of JavaScript complexity gives you just enough leeway to create bloated, slow code when you don't understand its under the hood workings.

    The guys commented above are most probably JS heavy-hitters and are well aware of
    all the pros and cons and are able to have an articulate banter amongst themselves about it, even. But I'll think we'll see you here again, godinu asking more questions which is aright by me and everyone else, I think.

    All the best!
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    • Profile picture of the author Brandon Tanner
      Originally Posted by chretit View Post

      I think you're looking for an equivalent of WYSIWYG for JavaScript which as far as I'm aware doesn't exist.
      Probably the closest thing I've seen to something like that, would be this...

      IxEdit

      I haven't used it personally, but it looks interesting.
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      • Profile picture of the author chretit
        Originally Posted by Brandon Tanner View Post

        Probably the closest thing I've seen to something like that, would be this...

        IxEdit

        I haven't used it personally, but it looks interesting.
        Wow, that's a great find, Brandon! I've scanned through the User Guide - it looks long, lol. It would take time to digest all that, might as well hand-code, haha.

        I guess it's hard to abstract away complexity when it comes to programming. I don't think Siri will be able to solve JavaScript problems until at least iPhone74.

        But, yeah, that's the kind of tool kit I thought the OP was looking for. Thanks.
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