How could I know if my programmer copy code from other places?

14 years ago

Originally Posted by kengperapol

Hi warriors,

I am currently hire a programmer to do a Wordpress plugin for me. Everything is going fine but since I just know him I'm not sure how can I detect if he copy code from other people sources?

I don't want to have any problem with legal stuffs so if there is anyway to check it would be good.

Thanks,

Keng

You can have him signed a legal agreement that will contain the clause that he will not copy any code of others and if he does then the complete action will have to be face by him or he will be sole resop. person for the legal action taken.

This was he would be afraid to do stealing.

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wayfarer

14 years ago

Originally Posted by festi9

You can have him signed a legal agreement that will contain the clause that he will not copy any code of others and if he does then the complete action will have to be face by him or he will be sole resop. person for the legal action taken.

Which would be absurd. All programmers copy low-level snippets from various places, except for the most trivial tasks. Asking someone not to do so is asking them not to do their job.

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FirstSocialApps

14 years ago

Originally Posted by wayfarer

Which would be absurd. All programmers copy low-level snippets from various places, except for the most trivial tasks. Asking someone not to do so is asking them not to do their job.

Agreed asking a coder to not use any OS library's / snippits is like asking your mechanic to forge the tools himself before he works on your car.

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Happy_Balance

14 years ago

Original ideas are important, not entirely unique code.

Originally Posted by wayfarer

Which would be absurd. All programmers copy low-level snippets from various places, except for the most trivial tasks. Asking someone not to do so is asking them not to do their job.

Originally Posted by FirstSocialApps

Agreed asking a coder to not use any OS library's / snippits is like asking your mechanic to forge the tools himself before he works on your car.

Security, functionality, and performance > Original code.

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festi9

14 years ago

Originally Posted by wayfarer

Which would be absurd. All programmers copy low-level snippets from various places, except for the most trivial tasks. Asking someone not to do so is asking them not to do their job.

I am talking about the complete code.
If the complete code is stolen or copied then the site owner can get some problems

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wayfarer

14 years ago

Originally Posted by festi9

I am talking about the complete code.
If the complete code is stolen or copied then the site owner can get some problems

Well, that's a different situation. But if a programmer can get his hands on some complete code, isn't it likely that code is in the public domain anyway, or even open source? If someone has the skills to steal code and understand it, it's likely they have the engineering skills to start from scratch. My point being, it's easy to get worried about this sort of thing, but in practice, it's not much of an issue.

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RichBeck

14 years ago

Originally Posted by wayfarer

If someone has the skills to steal code and understand it, it's likely they have the engineering skills to start from scratch.

wayfarer,

In my experience, they do not have the engineering skills...

They don't understand the code.....

They simply go to the WordPress site... Look for a similar plugin.... and hack together some modifications....

How I do I know they don't have the engineering skills?

I see the actual code they write...... They have no separation of code and HTML.... and tons of embedded strings and magic numbers.... Which are very basic concepts......

I also see how they fail to do simple "desk checking".... Let alone unit testing....

I could go on with many other basic skills they lack...... But, you get the idea.

Take Care,

Rich Beck BCIP, MCSD, MCIS

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FirstSocialApps

14 years ago

Originally Posted by RichBeck

In my experience, they do not have the engineering skills...

They don't understand the code.....

They simply go to the WordPress site... Look for a similar plugin.... and hack together some modifications....

How I do I know they don't have the engineering skills?

I see the actual code they write...... They have no separation of code and HTML.... and tons of embedded strings and magic numbers.... Which are very basic concepts......

I also see how they fail to do simple "desk checking".... Let alone unit testing....

I worked as a freelancer for a long time, and in my experience people who think there going to pay a professional $5 an hour end up getting garbage like your describing. You get what you pay for. Pay garbage, get garbage. Pay for quality and you will (generally) receive it.

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FirstSocialApps

14 years ago

You cant know.

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innozemec

14 years ago

if he is copying a snippet from here.. a snippet from there, thats fine, but if he copies an entire program code thats other thing..

there's nothing you can do to find out...

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oknoorap

14 years ago

That is risk of being a programmer, the copy-paste's ethics are an usual in programmer world, but if you want to share with open-source society, please use GNU or public license.

If you want to protect your codes you can use software encryption.

And don't forget that HTML, Javascript and CSS is open since http protocol using port 80, you'll never found a way to encrypt web source.

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RichBeck

14 years ago

Originally Posted by kengperapol

Hi warriors,

I am currently hire a programmer to do a Wordpress plugin for me. Everything is going fine but since I just know him I'm not sure how can I detect if he copy code from other people sources?

I don't want to have any problem with legal stuffs so if there is anyway to check it would be good.

Thanks,

Keng

Keng,

This is a tough one.....

What I have seen in the WordPress Plugin arena is rather unique..... Most of these guys don't reuse general snippets.... as mentioned by wayfarer...

They create a code base by "lifting" an entire "starting point" from an existing WP Plugin from the WP website...... At least, the Developers I have encountered on oDesk and other sites do... Then, they modify it to meet your specifications...

The huge downside is..... You end up with a thrown together Frankenstein plugin... There is no thought to design, maintainability or quality. It is cheap to have built... But, it is expensive to maintain....

As for the legal aspect, many outsourcing websites have requirements that it be "original work." But, my experience is..... That is rarely followed....

The way to avoid the legal issues are to have them sign a contract with you stating they are doing all "original work" AND they agree to indemnify you....

Of course, I'm giving high level layman's advice.... You need to seek the advice of a competent Attorney in your jurisdiction.

God Bless,

Rich Beck BCIP, MCSD, MCIS

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wayfarer

14 years ago

Haha, point taken. Maybe you'll get a few one-off products that way, but that's not who you want to hire if you need something really customized.

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RichBeck 14 years ago

Originally Posted by wayfarer

Haha, point taken. Maybe you'll get a few one-off products that way, but that's not who you want to hire if you need something really customized.

wayfarer,

Very true, my friend.... These could be one-off hacked products...

If I were having a plugin created, I would not want a plugin customized... Rather, I would want a custom plugin.....

Customized implies they are attempting to take a sow's ear and turn it into a silk purse.... Which is what happens on most of the outsourcing websites...

To me, custom means they write the code from scratch.... using all the proper engineering methodologies...

The way I see it... There is a big difference.....

Take Care,

Rich Beck BCIP, MCSD, MCIS
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ddev

14 years ago

One point to consider: If your developer uses a framework, some functions etc may be identical to others included in some plugins and this is nothing strange. One example i know is "CodeCharge", which is a visual development tool that creates database ready apps for php etc, and you'll find that 2 different apps, may share similar code.

Just my 2 cents.

Best Regards,

Diego.

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RichBeck

14 years ago

Originally Posted by ddev

One point to consider: If your developer uses a framework, some functions etc may be identical to others included in some plugins and this is nothing strange. One example i know is "CodeCharge", which is a visual development tool that creates database ready apps for php etc, and you'll find that 2 different apps, may share similar code.

Just my 2 cents.

Best Regards,

Diego.

Diego,

I have used CodeCharge, IronSpeed, PHPMaker and other web application builders before....

What he is questioning is different....

Not is his code being "generated" by an application like CodeCharge... But, is his code being "copied" from an existing plugin....

Based on my experience with WordPress plugin "Developers" on oDesk and eLance... That is a very valid concern....

Take Care,

Rich Beck

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redexclub

14 years ago

Originally Posted by kengperapol

Hi warriors,

I am currently hire a programmer to do a Wordpress plugin for me. Everything is going fine but since I just know him I'm not sure how can I detect if he copy code from other people sources?

I don't want to have any problem with legal stuffs so if there is anyway to check it would be good.

Thanks,

Keng

Think positive and positive things will be happened

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daream

13 years ago

Unless competitors with the programming skill will want to do check on your coding. The code can be encoded so it is hard to find whether your code is steal from them. Normally the software seller will want to protect their code being copied. To decode other code is possible, but your programmer unlikely capable to do that.

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rajeevrla

13 years ago

Don't worry, PHP codes are GPL but you might have to worry about the CSS and images the coder is using.

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Brandon Tanner

13 years ago

Originally Posted by rajeevrla

Don't worry, PHP codes are GPL

That is simply not true. The type of license that each PHP script has is up to the developer of that script, not you or me! A script might be licensed as GPL, or it might be closed-source, or it might be BSD, or any number of different types of licenses.

The same is true for ANY type of code, not just PHP!

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rajeevrla

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Brandon Tanner

That is simply not true. The type of license that each PHP script has is up to the developer of that script, not you or me! A script might be licensed as GPL, or it might be closed-source, or it might be BSD, or any number of different types of licenses.

The same is true for ANY type of code, not just PHP!

This page explains about the Wordpress license: WordPress › About » License

Wordpress community feels strongly that plugins and themes are derivative work and thus inherit the GPL license.

You might have a point but I think it's safe to copy the code from other wordpress plugins since those plugins are mainly interacting with Wordpress code.

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Brandon Tanner

13 years ago

Originally Posted by rajeevrla

This page explains about the Wordpress license: WordPress › About » License

Wordpress community feels strongly that plugins and themes are derivative work and thus inherit the GPL license.

You might have a point but I think it's safe to copy the code from other wordpress plugins since those plugins are mainly interacting with Wordpress code.

I was referring to PHP scripts in general. But a copyrighted work is a copyrighted work, regardless of what "platform" it's associated with.

If you hire a shady developer that rips off code that they don't have the legal rights to use, and then uses that code on your website, YOU can still be legally held liable as the owner of that website.

Of course, it's highly unlikely that you would ever get caught for copyright infringement in that scenario, due to the sheer number of websites out there. But people HAVE been successfully sued for this very thing.

So to blindly assume that it's always "safe" to copy any source code and use it however you want is just bad advice, from a legal perspective.

Just sayin'.

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wayfarer 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Brandon Tanner

So to blindly assume that it's always "safe" to copy any source code and use it however you want is just bad advice, from a legal perspective.

Well, the GPL does specifically allow for this. So if you agree that WP Plugins as derivative work inherit the GPL (there's lots of debate about this actually), then anyone can do anything they want with any source they want, as long as they keep it under the same license.
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- Brandon Tanner 13 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by wayfarer
  
  (there's lots of debate about this actually)
  
  No doubt! The webpage that rajeevrla linked to above (@ WordPress licensing), mentions that "There is some legal grey area" regarding how plugins and themes are licensed. So even the WordPress admins admit to the (potential) problem here.
  
  "Legal grey areas" are the reasons that attorneys can afford to buy nice houses and fancy cars, and send their kids to ivy league colleges.
  
  So all I'm saying is... if you want to minimize your chances of potential legal issues, then it's best to hire a developer who you know you can trust, who isn't going to do anything stupid like rip off a paid theme or closed-source script, and then put it on your website.
  
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  jminkler 13 years ago
  
  I think a better question might be, "How do I know if the programmer gave me poor code?".
  
  There are several ways to tell, if you are interested in hearing them.
  
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How could I know if my programmer copy code from other places?

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