by thet
27 replies
  • SEO
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How good do you need to be at HTML / CSS to become good at on-line marketing (especially SEO/SEA)
#html #seo
  • Profile picture of the author GreenInkWriter
    It is a normal phenomenon, that a website will rank over search engine which were built with the proper protocols for the Internet. It would be good if you have deep knowledge about HTML/CSS.
    For understanding this more clearly you should know Content Management System Effect over a website. Sometimes CMS is responsible for the invalid HTML/CSS and in that case you need to change the entire theme, or design of a website to solve this issue.
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    • Profile picture of the author scottmacair
      These days with Content Management systems you don't need to know that much about HTML or CSS but it helps if you know a little.
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      • Profile picture of the author Slade556
        Originally Posted by scottmacair View Post

        These days with Content Management systems you don't need to know that much about HTML or CSS but it helps if you know a little.
        I agree.
        You can easily install a script without any knowledge of HTML, CSS or anything else for that matter. However, it wouldn't hurt to at least understand the code, if you want to modify something inside your theme or some other files, for instance. But even this isn't necessary, as you can hire people to do that for you.
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        • Profile picture of the author DonConrad
          I started back in 2006 someone back then taught me to go to a web site put my mouse on in the middle and make sure that I was not over an image and right click, then view source that brings up a window and there is all of your HTML. Then someone turned me on two edit pluss. This is how learned HTML.

          Now days with YouTupe it is so easy finding people talking about what ever subject you want, all for free. Also you can find Free HTML CSS JavaScript DOM jQuery XML AJAX Angular ASP .NET PHP SQL tutorials, references, web building examples at W3Schools Online Web Tutorials

          In today's world I do not believe you need to know all of this, with content management systems it's too easy to build a web site and have all the tools you need in one place.
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          • Originally Posted by DonConrad View Post

            I started back in 2006 someone back then taught me to go to a web site put my mouse on in the middle and make sure that I was not over an image and right click, then view source that brings up a window and there is all of your HTML. Then someone turned me on two edit pluss. This is how learned HTML.

            Now days with YouTupe it is so easy finding people talking about what ever subject you want, all for free. Also you can find Free HTML CSS JavaScript DOM jQuery XML AJAX Angular ASP .NET PHP SQL tutorials, references, web building examples at W3Schools Online Web Tutorials

            In today’s world I do not believe you need to know all of this, with content management systems it’s too easy to build a web site and have all the tools you need in one place.
            I started out on a Mac IIcx (? right). It was 1992 and my friends at Stanford sent me the Mosaic Browser. I had just gotten Internet access via a company called Powernet. Real Internet assess with a 9600 baud modem. Imagine that!

            It was shortly after that Netscape was launched and with Netscape you could save a web page's code. So I did, and used Mac's editor to play with the code. I think I still have that page somewhere. So much get's lost with the old drive crashes from decades ago.

            Found an old Archive
            https://web.archive.org/web/20030310...phx/portfolio/

            But that is how I got started, and that is how I learned about the TAGS, TABLES, images, etc.

            My first really big lesson was organizing files into logical directories. Next big lesson was domains and spam. I need to write a book about the entire thing, but I think we have run out of time though for that.

            MarketHive is my latest big venture. This one is a 100% free giveaway. Curious as to how well that will be received, a full house suit of Inbound Marketing tools like Aweber, SEOBuffer, Capture Page Maker, Rotators, etc. you name it. Built into a dynamic Facebook like navigation platform.

            All from getting on this Internet band wagon over 25 years ago. I am getting old!
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            I have been around a long time on the Internet. You can usually find me @ Twitter and Instagram. I can be contacted on Telegram @ https://t.me/hivekeep

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  • Profile picture of the author thet
    so do you need to learn all the < > tags, CSS codes, <img scr=> stuff?
    Like you are almost a web designer or is the nuance different?
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    • Profile picture of the author David Ogden
      Originally Posted by thet View Post

      so do you need to learn all the < > tags, CSS codes, <img scr=> stuff?
      Like you are almost a web designer or is the nuance different?
      I do not think it is necessary to learn anything more than the basics as there are many wysiwyg editors you can use which also can supply you with the view of HTML coding so you can pick up HTML that way. It also useful to be ableto recognise PHP coding but only the basics.

      I use Edit Plus a shareware product and it works just fine if I want to make simple code
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      David Ogden an Entrepreneur at Markethive which uses a suite of free marketing tools to promote his opportunity. Contact:- Telegram @davidogden

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    • Profile picture of the author yukon
      Banned
      Originally Posted by thet View Post

      so do you need to learn all the < > tags, CSS codes, <img scr=> stuff?
      Like you are almost a web designer or is the nuance different?
      The answer is Yes, you need to know HTML/CSS otherwise you'll be clueless what your looking at (source code).

      Comparing a live webpage with the text version of a webpage can sometimes show drastically different results.

      One example... You could try ranking a page with 100% external links but If you don't understand HTML your page could have something silly like a noindex tag in the HTML <head> which tells Google to remove the page from the SERPs, so any effort trying to rank the page would be a waste of time. That noindex example happens a lot to new SEO members on this forum.
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      • Profile picture of the author thet
        Originally Posted by yukon View Post

        The answer is Yes, you need to know HTML/CSS otherwise you'll be clueless what your looking at (source code).

        Comparing a live webpage with the text version of a webpage can sometimes show drastically different results.

        One example... You could try ranking a page with 100% external links but If you don't understand HTML your page could have something silly like a noindex tag in the HTML <head> which tells Google to remove the page from the SERPs, so any effort trying to rank the page would be a waste of time. That noindex example happens a lot to new SEO members on this forum.
        So if somebody wants to get into online marketing, he also needs to become a web designer? (being an expert with HTML and CSS)
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        • Profile picture of the author yukon
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          Originally Posted by thet View Post

          So if somebody wants to get into online marketing, he also needs to become a web designer? (being an expert with HTML and CSS)
          Either that or pay someone else to do the work.
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          • Profile picture of the author thet
            Originally Posted by yukon View Post

            Either that or pay someone else to do the work.
            Here is the story. I am going to be into another path within my company. I asked them to get formal education in online marketing and they said yes. They want me to learn the conversion, SEO but also building online campagnes.

            I want to become niche specialised in something. So I thought, let's pick the SEO part of it.

            I am wet behind the ears. So, i have no clue what I am doing (yet) and loving the new challenge thats ahead of me

            So hiring is not an option because my first goal is to become an independed contractor (in a couple of years from now. first learn the ins and outs in the company I work for). The formal education is 1 evening a night + 6-10 hours self study. However, now I see I probably also need a look at HTML+CSS
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            • Profile picture of the author yukon
              Banned
              Originally Posted by thet View Post

              Here is the story. I am going to be into another path within my company. I asked them to get formal education in online marketing and they said yes. They want me to learn the conversion, SEO but also building online campagnes.

              I want to become niche specialised in something. So I thought, let's pick the SEO part of it.

              I am wet behind the ears. So, i have no clue what I am doing (yet) and loving the new challenge thats ahead of me

              So hiring is not an option because my first goal is to become an independed contractor (in a couple of years from now. first learn the ins and outs in the company I work for). The formal education is 1 evening a night + 6-10 hours self study. However, now I see I probably also need a look at HTML+CSS
              I'm not suggesting you have to be the best web/dev but life is so much easier as an SEO when you at least understand how to hand edit things like HTML/CSS.

              If your working for someone that's willing to pay for learning HTML/CSS that's a good thing but everything you need to know related to HTML/CSS is online for free. I would take advantage of an employer paid training & at the same time be learning on my own from online tutorials.

              The thing about SEO is there's basics that never change (text + quality backlinks) but there's a ton of little things that can be tweaked depending on what you're trying to accomplish in the SERPs.

              You also need to be open to non-stop testing on your own, with your own domains.

              Personally I would start with learning HTML/CSS, then go to on-page SEO (SEO Silos) & finally external link building.
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              • Profile picture of the author thet
                Originally Posted by yukon View Post

                I'm not suggesting you have to be the best web/dev but life is so much easier as an SEO when you at least understand how to hand edit things like HTML/CSS.

                If your working for someone that's willing to pay for learning HTML/CSS that's a good thing but everything you need to know related to HTML/CSS is online for free. I would take advantage of an employer paid training & at the same time be learning on my own from online tutorials.

                The thing about SEO is there's basics that never change (text + quality backlinks) but there's a ton of little things that can be tweaked depending on what you're trying to accomplish in the SERPs.

                You also need to be open to non-stop testing on your own, with your own domains.

                Personally I would start with learning HTML/CSS, then go to on-page SEO (SEO Silos) & finally external link building.
                Hey thank you. I will learn HTML+CSS
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  • Profile picture of the author thet
    Interesting to see I get both YES and NO answers in this thread Must have hit on a known discussion in the world of SEO?
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  • Profile picture of the author Vpatel
    If you take a look at html knowledge and SEO success factors then you should know Search engines pick up ranking signals from specific HTML elements. HTML is not must for every search engine optimizer, but you should have knowledge about html.
    You should know some important factors like Structured Data, Header Tags, The Meta Description Tag, HTML Title Tag etc.
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  • Profile picture of the author Resource9
    It is true that SEO does not need knowledge of HTML, but if you have basic HTML knowledge, you will be able to execute the SEO strategies in a better way. You will also have a better understanding of meta tags and all the other website related elements.
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    • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
      Originally Posted by Resource9 View Post

      It is true that SEO does not need knowledge of HTML, but if you have basic HTML knowledge, you will be able to execute the SEO strategies in a better way. You will also have a better understanding of meta tags and all the other website related elements.
      As an SEO, what you are saying is completely wrong. A good SEO needs to understand HTML. It's about a lot more than meta data, especially with Schema in the mix now.
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      • Profile picture of the author watman
        Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

        As an SEO, what you are saying is completely wrong. A good SEO needs to understand HTML. It's about a lot more than meta data, especially with Schema in the mix now.
        Everyday is a learning day on here. I didn't know about schema's. I'm assuming they have some sort of seo impact? Is it significant?
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        • Profile picture of the author jeffreysloe
          Originally Posted by watman View Post

          Everyday is a learning day on here. I didn't know about schema's. I'm assuming they have some sort of seo impact? Is it significant?
          Yes, everyday is a new day to learn. However, schema.org, home of the schema project, has been around for a little while. It is not entirely new. My understanding of its use is to help the bots better understand your site and the content on your site. I haven't checked recently, but the last time I did, Google was not using the schema microdata as a hook for ranking a site. That doesn't mean that it's not important. It just may be time to take another look at it. Thank you, Mike Friedman for the heads up!

          Mike, is it possible to give us additional information on how/when we should use the schema microdata, and does it help with your site's rank? Thanks.
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          • Profile picture of the author yukon
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            Originally Posted by jeffreysloe View Post

            Yes, everyday is a new day to learn. However, schema.org, home of the schema project, has been around for a little while. It is not entirely new. My understanding of its use is to help the bots better understand your site and the content on your site. I haven't checked recently, but the last time I did, Google was not using the schema microdata as a hook for ranking a site. That doesn't mean that it's not important. It just may be time to take another look at it.
            With schema it's possible to rank above the #1 ranked organic webpage in Google SERPs & have that exact same webpage/URL a 2nd time on the 1st page of Google SERPs for the exact same keyword.
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          • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
            Originally Posted by jeffreysloe View Post

            Mike, is it possible to give us additional information on how/when we should use the schema microdata, and does it help with your site's rank? Thanks.
            Sorry, but nothing I am willing to discuss here.

            Too many people take good ideas here and either destroy them or decide that they can sell them as a crappy WSO.
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            • Profile picture of the author jeffreysloe
              Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

              Sorry, but nothing I am willing to discuss here.

              Too many people take good ideas here and either destroy them or decide that they can sell them as a crappy WSO.
              Mike,

              I totally understand why you do not want to share. I do want to thank you for mentioning Schema in one of your previous posts. It has gotten me to rethink the importance of this as an SEO strategy. Thanks again!
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              I have been on the Internet since 1999. I'm here to share what I have learned about online marketing, web design and SEO strategies.

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          • Profile picture of the author savidge4
            I think there is some confusion here. Google IS a partner in schema, along with Bing and Yahoo. Its not just some random organization, it is literally the big boys in search engines sitting down and thinking how they can work together and make search better.

            The microdata is in the serps... if you search for "Red Skinny Jeans" you can scroll down a bit to the oldnavy listing. its there.

            Keep in mind that last year Google removed their own "Author Tag" to go more towards the schema standard.

            I do find it very interesting how little the Schema information is used by big names. Even in the above search Macys isn't using it, Nordstroms isn't using it, JCPennys isn't. Like Yukon said, Schema data right now is giving the little guy big windows of opportunity.


            Originally Posted by jeffreysloe View Post

            Yes, everyday is a new day to learn. However, schema.org, home of the schema project, has been around for a little while. It is not entirely new. My understanding of its use is to help the bots better understand your site and the content on your site. I haven't checked recently, but the last time I did, Google was not using the schema microdata as a hook for ranking a site. That doesn't mean that it's not important. It just may be time to take another look at it. Thank you, Mike Friedman for the heads up!

            Mike, is it possible to give us additional information on how/when we should use the schema microdata, and does it help with your site's rank? Thanks.
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  • Profile picture of the author Nicole Sakoman
    Originally Posted by thet View Post

    How good do you need to be at HTML / CSS to become good at on-line marketing (especially SEO/SEA)
    You just need to know some things about html/css... those that you need to enhance your SEO work. I started and did SEO for a long, long time not knowing anything about css and very little about html.

    I always solved my problems by following other more techy blogs and using google search!

    Nicole (:
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  • Profile picture of the author TeKn1qu3z
    Every CMS built with great HTML and CSS, so no need to worry about them or mastering. Themes too built with clean CSS and HTML so don't waste your time for these things just hire someone or get paid theme, but still there free good themes on Internet.
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  • Profile picture of the author David Ogden
    Well it would seem that perhaps like Jeffery, I might need to update myself on Schema, it seems to be related to database and site maps perhpas someone here could explain in simple language why it is important
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    • Profile picture of the author savidge4
      So a bit of history about schema.org stepping back a moment. Sitemaps were introduced by Google in 2005, in 2006 it became a search engine industry standard. I would say it became realclear real fast for the betterment of the industry to follow a unified standard, instead of fragmenting

      in 2009 Google introduced "Rich Snippets" ahead of the curve again. Not until 2011 did this become an intended industry standard. I personally would say that Google still is not 100% there, but I don't think any of the other are either. The most recent rich snippet that I can think Google finally laid to rest was the Author tag, mid last yearish. Boy do I miss that <tear>

      The overall basic principle of the schema markup is to make the work of search engines easier. Instead of all these complicate concepts to determine what your site and your pages are about,these tags will define these things in code, that are easy for bots / spiders to read.

      There are in essence 4 different tags. there is itemscope, itemtype, itemprop, and then there is the oddball of the bunch "embedded items", which in itself is not a tag, but how the tags are used.

      itemscope: is a simple tag that says anything between open div and close div are related.

      itemtype: basically defines itemscope. So if you have tagged something open div itemscope you then set the itemscope to what the context of the div block is.

      itemprop: defines specific elements within the div block. as an example it could be a "Name" or an "event date" "Prices" a URL... all kinds of stuff.

      embedded items: the easiest way to explain this... uh uh nested div right? yeah that's it LOL below is embedded items and how it kinda looks

      Primary open div - itemscope - itemtype "Sports team"
      itemprop -"name"
      Secondary open div - itemscope - itemtype "person"
      itemprop - "name" itemprop - "birthdate"
      Secondary div closed
      itemprop - "sport"
      Primary div closed

      All of these tags have specific extensions you can use. and to be honest I have never found a real good list of the terms that are available. I have been playing with these for a while now and still find new uses for them all the time.

      Schema does have a wordpress plugin that is rather useful when dealing with products. but the post and page tagging isn't there. you pretty much have to lay this stuff in by hand... or at least that is what I have found.

      Hope that Helps!
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