Anchor Text Strategy within Silo Architecture

18 replies
  • SEO
  • |
Hello,
Can someone please help me clarify two questions about best practices regarding silo architecture?

1 - Does it hurt my SEO, or count as keyword stuffing, if each tier that narrows down from the higher level has the the previous tier's keywords in it?

Example:
Site is about Insurance (broad keyword: insurance)
Silo Landing Page: Insurance Rates (Broad keywords: Insurance rates)
Category Landing Page: Affordable Insurance Rates (keywords: affordable insurance rates)
Post: Compare Affordable Insurance Rates (Long Tail Keyword: compare affordable insurance rates)

As you can see, at the post level, all of the keywords from the tiers above are reflected in the title. Would this kind of naming system count as keyword stuffing because the URL to get to the post would be:
insurance.com/insurance-rates/affordable-insurance-rates/compare-affordable-insurance-rates



2 - (Given the example above) Regarding anchor text and helping link juice flow back up the silo, would it count as keyword stuffing to have anchor text in lower level tiers reflect the upper tiers' keywords when they link back up to the Category Landing Page and Silo Landing Page? For example, a single instance of anchor text in each post employed the Category Landing Page's keyword as anchor text? If you have 15 posts in that silo, each with the anchor text "Affordable Insurance Rates" linking back to the Category Landing Page, would that count as a red flag for keyword stuffing? Is this right way to build authority for competitive keywords? Or is this totally wrong?

Thank you in advance!
#anchor #architecture #silo #strategy #text
  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    Originally Posted by Flutterlilly View Post

    1 - Does it hurt my SEO, or count as keyword stuffing, if each tier that narrows down from the higher level has the the previous tier's keywords in it?

    Example:
    Site is about Insurance (broad keyword: insurance)
    Silo Landing Page: Insurance Rates (Broad keywords: Insurance rates)
    Category Landing Page: Affordable Insurance Rates (keywords: affordable insurance rates)
    Post: Compare Affordable Insurance Rates (Long Tail Keyword: compare affordable insurance rates)

    As you can see, at the post level, all of the keywords from the tiers above are reflected in the title. Would this kind of naming system count as keyword stuffing because the URL to get to the post would be:
    insurance.com/insurance-rates/affordable-insurance-rates/compare-affordable-insurance-rates
    That example is ok & actually the basics of a silo, relevancy with unique page titles (<title>).

    Even though I suggest unique page titles keep in mind there are situations where you can get away with very similar page titles on multiple internal pages from the same domain. I've already mentioned this on another forum thread with a few examples so I'll paste that below. These examples happen to be Youtube videos but it doesn't matter because the same can be done on self hosted domains.

    I would consider the Youtube examples below an extreme case & pushing the limits to avoid Supplemental SERPs, you can see they're still doing fine in the SERPs since my original forum comment dated 8th Feb 2015.

    Don't be afraid to test/tweak things on your own. The SERPs aren't written in stone.

    [source]
    This example is a bit different, I've seen Youtube videos on Google SERPs show multiple series videos where the page title was the same except for the video number in the <title>.

    Example:
    Try the search below If you want to see more examples:

    Even though Google is showing those same page titles it's still very touchy because most of those pages could easily end up in Supplemental SERPs.















    Originally Posted by Flutterlilly View Post

    2 - (Given the example above) Regarding anchor text and helping link juice flow back up the silo, would it count as keyword stuffing to have anchor text in lower level tiers reflect the upper tiers' keywords when they link back up to the Category Landing Page and Silo Landing Page? For example, a single instance of anchor text in each post employed the Category Landing Page's keyword as anchor text? If you have 15 posts in that silo, each with the anchor text "Affordable Insurance Rates" linking back to the Category Landing Page, would that count as a red flag for keyword stuffing? Is this right way to build authority for competitive keywords? Or is this totally wrong?
    That's also ok & will help generate multiple SERP positions for each keyword you target.
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  • Profile picture of the author Flutterlilly
    [DELETED]
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    • Profile picture of the author yukon
      Banned
      Notice that GT3 Detailing Process keyword, all those videos are from the same guy on Youtube (Matt Moreman) so If anyone is searching that keyword on Google SERPs you can pretty much bet he owns the majority of that search traffic. Everyone searching that keyword is clicking at least one of his six video links.

      Again, that can all be done on a self hosted domain though the tougher the competition the tougher it is to squeeze out multiple SERP positions per each keyword. If you're just starting out with silos, my advice is test some longtail keywords & aim for multiple SERP listings per keyword, that way helps build up confidence for learning SEO, proves the strategy & less likely to have to worry about competition messing with your ranked pages for a while.

      Get the strategy figured out with longtail keywords & work towards tougher competition keywords. Repeat...
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  • Profile picture of the author SEO-Dave
    Originally Posted by Flutterlilly View Post

    As you can see, at the post level, all of the keywords from the tiers above are reflected in the title. Would this kind of naming system count as keyword stuffing because the URL to get to the post would be:
    insurance.com/insurance-rates/affordable-insurance-rates/compare-affordable-insurance-rates
    I'm curious why you think you need your deeper content physically (or virtually) located in deeper and deeper sub-folders?

    A silo isn't generated by the physical location of the files or the virtual location of the files, it's the linking structure. What you have above looks really spammy, you can have everything at root level, so your final URL could be:

    insurance.com/compare-affordable-insurance-rates

    It's the links between related content which form the silo architecture, not the URL/folder structure. Silo SEO works by limiting unrelated content (especially anchor text) on a webpage, basically you attempt to make everything yell a particular niche by reducing non-niche content.

    David
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    • Profile picture of the author Flutterlilly
      Originally Posted by SEO-Dave View Post

      I'm curious why you think you need your deeper content physically (or virtually) located in deeper and deeper sub-folders?

      A silo isn't generated by the physical location of the files or the virtual location of the files, it's the linking structure. What you have above looks really spammy, you can have everything at root level, so your final URL could be:

      insurance.com/compare-affordable-insurance-rates

      It's the links between related content which form the silo architecture, not the URL/folder structure. Silo SEO works by limiting unrelated content (especially anchor text) on a webpage, basically you attempt to make everything yell a particular niche by reducing non-niche content.

      David
      Thank you for your reply, Dave. Even though I'm attracted to the idea of what you're suggesting (dropping the directory structure in the URL) for reasons such as better clarity, crawlability and simplicity, I'm confused because of what I read on Bruce Clay's site about this very topic. In his blog article about structured URLs, he specifically says that structured URLs (URLs that reveal a site's actual structure) are better than flat structured URLs for reasons of 1) semantics, 2) indexing control and 3) better SEO traffic analysis.

      Can you please help me get down to the bottom of this? (PS - I can't figure out how to "thank" you or Yukon for the time you've taken to answer these questions. So here's my thank you: THANK YOU!! )
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      • Profile picture of the author yukon
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Flutterlilly View Post

        Thank you for your reply, Dave. Even though I'm attracted to the idea of what you're suggesting (dropping the directory structure in the URL) for reasons such as better clarity, crawlability and simplicity, I'm confused because of what I read on Bruce Clay's site about this very topic. In his blog article about structured URLs, he specifically says that structured URLs (URLs that reveal a site's actual structure) are better than flat structured URLs for reasons of 1) semantics, 2) indexing control and 3) better SEO traffic analysis.

        Can you please help me get down to the bottom of this? (PS - I can't figure out how to "thank" you or Yukon for the time you've taken to answer these questions. So here's my thank you: THANK YOU!! )


        Yes, use a URL structure that shows hierarchy.

        It's easy to prove Google favors structured sites because that's one of the ways Google Sitelinks is generated. They also show hierarchy with the SERP listing breadcrumbs.
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  • Profile picture of the author Flutterlilly
    Thank you for the follow up, Yukon. And thank you for the reply, David.

    I understand the perils of pushing content deeper down into folders and subfolders and don't necessarily think I need to do that. I used the example above (insurance.com/insurance-rates/affordable-insurance-rates/compare-affordable-insurance-rates) because many of the blogs I'm learning this stuff through suggest the above mentioned approach in order to build strength toward highly competitive words with supporting anchor text that echoes the competitive keyword, so long as it's in the silo.

    I'm a little confused now because it seems like Yukon is saying that that kind of approach won't get flagged, where David is saying it may.

    However, David, your reply brings another question to mind:
    I'm building a business with various categories (WordPress Categories, not architecture categories) and my plan is to have an architectural category page for the sole purpose of preserving link flow and having a landing page where links from other silos can point to.

    If I did what you suggest and keep all my content at the root level (not putting them into folders), what will happen with the WordPress categories I assign them? I was under the impression that if I have WP categories, that I would also necessarily have to have the content live in actual folders that reflected those categories.

    If you're curious who the "experts" are that I've been reading much of this stuff about, they are Bruce Clay and Neil Patel.

    Your input and replies are much appreciated! Thank you for taking the time.
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  • Profile picture of the author Flutterlilly
    Just a quick follow up...

    David, the reason I'm confused about the folders altogether is because, if what you're saying is true and folders / subfolders aren't really necessary, and everything can simply be done through links and anchor text, then why would anybody have anything in folders?

    When would the structure of nesting things inside folders be a good idea?
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  • Profile picture of the author SEO-Dave
    You've misunderstood me slightly.

    You won't be penalized for having sub-folders like

    example.com/keyword/keyword2/keyword3/keyword4/

    I'm saying it's not needed and LOOKS a bit spammy. Looking a bit spammy doesn't mean it is SEO SPAM and Google will slap it.

    If you went to two sites and one was:

    example/com/keyword/keyword2/keyword3/keyword4/article-here.html

    and the other was

    example/com/article-here.html

    which one would you consider more professional?

    The reason why the likes of Bruce Clay etc... advised this type of niching content in folders is from a layman's perspective it makes sense, but Google doesn't see any difference between:

    example.com/keyword/keyword2/keyword3.html
    and
    example.com/keyword-keyword2-keyword3.html

    To Google these have the same SEO value.

    Keywords in a URL is a small SEO factor (note they have to be separated by a separator Google recognizes: hyphen -, dot . or forward slash /) so you do want your keywords in the URL. Since there's no difference between the two examples above why would you use folders which limits the URL options?

    From a WordPress perspective why would you want to force category keywords into a URL when you can add it via the slug (IF you want those words)?

    If I'm targeting a page at say SEO Tutorial and I've put the post in the SEO Tutorials category which of these two is best at targeting the SEO tutorial SERP?

    example.com/category/seo-tutorials/seo-tutorial/
    example.com/seo-tutorial/

    IME the second one, I don't want the word category, don't need SEO twice and though tutorials isn't a negative there's the argument the SEO Tutorials category should be targeting SEO tutorials.

    what about another article in the SEO Tutorials category targeting Anchor Text Optimization

    example.com/category/seo-tutorials/anchor-text-optimization/
    example.com/anchor-text-optimization/

    I'm targeting "Anchor Text Optimization", not "Category SEO Tutorials Anchor Text Optimization". Why would you water down the keywords you are targeting (Anchor Text Optimization) with additional words you aren't targeting (Category SEO Tutorials) on that page?

    If you want seo-tutorials in the URL it can be added via the post slug without adding /category/:

    example/com/seo-tutorials-anchor-text-optimization/

    but, if you have the category permalink version you can't remove /category/seo-tutorials/ from the URL if you don't want it.

    The URL SEO benefit is small fry, it's the interlinking and related anchor text where the real SEO power is and you don't have to have webpages in the same folder to link them together with relevant anchor text.

    The real silo SEO power is in the links and anchor text. You can silo any webpages together via links and related anchor text. Tighter a niche (keyword wise) more related the links anchor text will be.

    Take a look at the SEO theme link in my sig, the site uses WordPress and has built loose silos around categories. Go on a few random articles and look at the links including the widget links and note how the anchor text tends to be strongly niched: for example I have a Make Money Online category niche, I avoid linking to it from the SEO category niches (posts about making money tend to link to other posts about money).

    David
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  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    I see mayhem setting in...

    An old school site structure does indeed consist of folders/directories, there should be no confusion there, it's an obvious fact. It's literally a treeview structure (screenshot below) which is the same as a silo. Silos originate from old school HTML structure, the difference is they're virtual in the sense that a category folder/sub-folder doesn't exist on a CMS (ex: Wordpress, Drupal, etc..), it's all data in a MySQL database.





    The same old school HTML treeview in the screenshot above can be done in a virtual silo (ex: Wordpress) by simply creating Pages in the CMS Admin. & using a Parent/Child hierarchy.
    • hxxp://animals.com/dogs/small-breeds/italian-greyhound




    Originally Posted by Flutterlilly View Post

    If you're curious who the "experts" are that I've been reading much of this stuff about, they are Bruce Clay and Neil Patel.
    My advice is forget Neil, he's all hype.

    Pay attention to what Bruce Clay is actually doing on his site, not just his blog post about silos. Compare his live webpages to the Google cache (text versions), they're noticeably different because he's optimizing for Google SERPs on the text version of his webpages.
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    • Profile picture of the author SEO-Dave
      Originally Posted by yukon View Post

      The same old school HTML treeview in the screenshot above can be done in a virtual silo (ex: Wordpress) by simply creating Pages in the CMS Admin. & using a Parent/Child hierarchy.
      • hxxp://animals.com/dogs/small-breeds/italian-greyhound.
      Yep, but to do this with WordPress means giving up WordPress posts and the automated internal linking through categories/tags and interesting features you tend to only get with posts. Using pages means a lot more manual setup of links etc...

      That's fine for a small site (less than 50 articles), but think of the organisation hassle of trying to maintain a site with 1,000 articles and you add new ones every week. Of course it's possible and before we had CMS's like WordPress we had to do it that way, (I have 10,000+ page sites built that way!) but I wouldn't want to spend that amount of time on achieving a virtual folder structure which doesn't have a major SEO impact.

      Unless you think one of these two URLs is better SEO wise:

      hxxp://animals.com/dogs/small-breeds/italian-greyhound

      Can be achieved either as a set of WordPress Static Pages or via a particular categories permalink structure (name the category base dogs, have a category called small breeds and a permalink of /dogs/%category%/%postname%)

      hxxp://animals.com/dogs-small-breeds-italian-greyhound

      Create a WordPress post with title "dogs small breeds italian greyhound" or create a post with the title "italian greyhound" and edit the post slug to "dogs-small-breeds-italian-greyhound". IF I wanted all those words in the URL I'd do the latter: I wouldn't want the "dogs-small-breeds-" part in the URL, I'd go with a title of "Italian Greyhound" or possibly "Italian Greyhound Dog" (I'd need to do the keyword research first).

      URL wise there is no difference in the keywords Google can parse, they are equal in terms of SEO benefit.

      I wonder how many webmasters trying to build SEO silos believe having webpages in the same folder (virtual or actual) is all they have to do to create a silo? Without the links between related webpages in the same folder it's not a silo, you can easily build a silo without the webpagea being in the same folders.

      David
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      • Profile picture of the author yukon
        Banned
        I don't want to over complicate silos for OP.

        Anyways...

        Wordpress will do anything you want it to do, you just have to code whatever you want done just like any other webpage on the net.

        Originally Posted by SEO-Dave View Post

        [/LIST] Yep, but to do this with WordPress means giving up WordPress posts and the automated internal linking through categories/tags and interesting features you tend to only get with posts. Using pages means a lot more manual setup of links etc...
        Pages aren't really any different than Post on Wordpress. If you really need tags on WP Pages the functions.php code to make that happen isn't too difficult.

        PHP Code:
        function tags_support_all() {
            
        register_taxonomy_for_object_type('post_tag''page');
        }

        function 
        tags_support_query() {
            if ((
        'tag')) ('post_type''any');
        }

        add_action('init''tags_support_all');
        add_action('pre_get_posts''tags_support_query'); 
        Personally the only thing I would use WP Tags for is server side conditional code to associate web pages with each other If needed, I wouldn't junk up my site with redundant live web pages (WP Tag web pages).

        BTW, I automate internal silo links just fine for WP Pages. I don't even include a single.php or tag.php in the WP theme on my newer sites. You can use WP Tags If needed for selective page grouping without including a tag.php file in the theme.
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        • Profile picture of the author SEO-Dave
          Originally Posted by yukon View Post

          BTW, I automate internal silo links just fine for WP Pages. I don't even include a single.php or tag.php in the WP theme on my newer sites. You can use WP Tags If needed for selective page grouping without including a tag.php file in the theme.
          Like you I avoid using tags, waste of link benefit on pages that are highly unlikely to rank.

          Curious how you automatically links WordPress Static Pages together? Always looking for useful plugins/code snippets for new features.

          Would it be you have parent pages and automatically interlink anything under a parent page? So you have a parent page act like a category without the post excerpts....

          David
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          • Profile picture of the author deezn
            Originally Posted by SEO-Dave View Post

            Like you I avoid using tags, waste of link benefit on pages that are highly unlikely to rank.

            Curious how you automatically links WordPress Static Pages together? Always looking for useful plugins/code snippets for new features.

            Would it be you have parent pages and automatically interlink anything under a parent page? So you have a parent page act like a category without the post excerpts....

            David
            Used to be a plugin that would list all subpages and an excerpt. It was called Subpage Includes or something. It was removed from the plugin store though.

            You can do all of that with short codes though.
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  • Profile picture of the author jazbo
    If it looks spammy and feels spammy then it probably is.

    Ask yourself that before you start any SEO project.
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  • Profile picture of the author PBNDeveloper
    For what it's worth, if you do deeply structure your site you run the risk of over-optimizing on main keywords.

    So if you are targeting auto insurance and your URL looks like this:

    autoinsurancerelateddomain.com/auto-insurance/teen-auto-insurance/keeping-your-teens-auto-insurance-rates-down/

    then you can run into some Penguin problems.

    Personally, I create my silos to be 2 levels, which is short enough to avoid Penguin and long enough to really target what I'm talking about.

    site.com/silotopic/subtopic
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  • Profile picture of the author irawr
    Banned
    I'm going to be 100% honest here.

    I completely understand trees in programming. Binary tress, N trees, whatever.

    But anytime somebody says "Silo" I'm like "da faq?"

    The terminology just blows. Who ever coined that term should be kicked in the balls.

    Normally, it's going to visually look more like a pyramid then a "Silo."

    Ok so we want a pyramid with no more than three tiers. Four if we really need to because the site is that big. Ok. Easy, for me to understand.

    I don't know maybe it's a gift or something, but I can easily visualize the structures of things like website links in my mind.

    I'm sure many "visual thinkers" feel the same way, and many non-visual thinkers disagree.

    I'm thinking here that it's too hard for people to understand so term "silo" was created because it's more linear sounding word. I actually kind of get it now, it's like you're looking across the tiers, instead of down them. Or like the way you might look at the structure in say Visio. The term "silo" has confused me for nearly 2 decades now.

    Which Okay, the files are linear... But that's not what all the code behind them achieves...

    With this structure



    To me, the "silo" on the left makes no sense, it's not really describing what's going on at all.

    If anybody looks at the right part of that diagram and what you need to do makes no sense, let me know.

    If A has 250 links, B has 250 unique links, then C is 62,500 pages = Have fun sourcing that.

    If A is say 50 links (drop down nav menus) and B averages 25 pages, then C is 1250 pages = will still take years to write yourself, unless it's auto generated or thin content.

    Edit: and to anybody spends hours designing their "silo" (first time doesn't count) yesterday on one of my many sites, I deleted a category in wordpress, and put all the content into a different category oh noes! My silo kersploded! It doesn't matter, those pages I moved have zero external links and Google will instantly figure it out by the sitemap change, there might be a bunch of gbot 404s, but it's fine. The issue of "adjusting your silo" only occurs when you have external links pointed to those pages or you go full idiot mode and go from good structure to terrible.

    Originally Posted by yukon View Post

    This to me, makes 10,000% more sense then the word "Silo"
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    • Profile picture of the author yukon
      Banned
      Originally Posted by irawr View Post

      I'm going to be 100% honest here.

      I completely understand trees in programming. Binary tress, N trees, whatever.

      But anytime somebody says "Silo" I'm like "da faq?"

      The terminology just blows. Who ever coined that term should be kicked in the balls.

      Normally, it's going to visually look more like a pyramid then a "Silo."

      Ok so we want a pyramid with no more than three tiers. Four if we really need to because the site is that big. Ok. Easy, for me to understand.

      I don't know maybe it's a gift or something, but I can easily visualize the structures of things like website links in my mind.

      I'm thinking here that it's too hard for people to understand so term "silo" was created because it's more linear sounding word. I actually kind of get it now, it's like you're looking across the tiers, instead of down them. Or like the way you might look at the structure in say Visio. The term "silo" has confused me for nearly 2 decades now.

      Which Okay, the files are linear... But that's not what all the code behind them achieves...

      With this structure



      To me, the "silo" on the left makes no sense, it's not really describing what's going on at all.

      If A has 250 links, B has 250 unique links, then C is 62,500 pages = Have fun sourcing that.

      If A is say 50 links (drop down nav menus) and B averages 25 pages, then C is 1250 pages = will still take years to write yourself, unless it's auto generated or thin content.

      Edit: and to anybody spends hours designing their "silo" (first time doesn't count) yesterday on one of my many sites, I deleted a category in wordpress, and put all the content into a different category oh noes! My silo kersploded!


      Technically everything you see or do with a computer/server mimics a card catalog like in an offline library.

      Either way it doesn't matter what you call it as long as you understand the structure & how to use it to your advantage.
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      • Profile picture of the author irawr
        Banned
        Originally Posted by yukon View Post

        Either way it doesn't matter what you call it as long as you understand the structure & how to use it to your advantage.
        Oh I've understood it since I ran a CJ back in 1997, the terminology just made no sense.

        Totally unrelated: dafaq did you idiots do to 4pics.net...

        100k uv/day CJ into a 302 ... wow... fail...

        The most F-ed part about my post, I was not legally old enough to operate this site until the year 2000.

        Man was that hard to explain to my mom, why checks for 10k+ were coming from adult media sites.

        I realized this business was a bad idea when this happened:

        http://www.businesswire.com/news/hom...tent-Providers

        If anybody wants to sue me, trust me, I've got some court experience, bring it on!

        That doesn't even include the 1,000+ legal threats I received prior to this:

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAN-SPAM_Act_of_2003

        A message cannot be sent through an open relay
        Man I got pooped on HARD...

        Banned by US.gov /ultra fail
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