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PPC Help?

by Colin Y.J. Chung Banned
10 replies
  • SEO
    • |
Hi there,

Google won't run some of my ad groups... and I need to know why.

Can someone tell me what I'm doing wrong?

Campaign X (Google Only)
  • Adgroup 1: Exact match keyword only
  • Adgroup 2: Phrase match with exact match as negative (so that I ONLY get phrase match searches with extra words, and all exact matches funnel to Adgroup 1 only)
Google ain't running Adgroup 2, because they say the negative keyword is blocking the keywords.

I got this strategy from STSE 2.0. Is this not valid anymore?

Campaign Y (Google & Search Partners)

Exactly the same as above but with a penny less on the CPC bid.

Google ain't running this campaign at all because they're telling me the keywords are already in another campaign...

I got the 1 penny less strategy from Glenn Livingston... he says Google will only funnel search partner stuff to this campaign because Google's smart enough to make more money on campaign X.

Again... is this not valid anymore?

Did Google Adwords change it's policy since I got this information?

Thanks in advance.
#ppc
  • Profile picture of the author Terry Kyle
    Hey Colin,

    Not sure about changes in Google's policy but you could try opening a whole different AdWords account with a different credit card.

    Then keep your campaigns apart with different accounts.

    A hassle to be sure but probably worth it.

    I've heard of BHers skilled in PPC locking up most or all of a search term's first page Adwords with multiple accounts.
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    • Profile picture of the author R. Shawner
      I don't know how old that information is and how exactly google policies changed since then, but I'm sure a lot has changed (new interface etc.)

      I would do the following thing:
      -leave adgroup 1 as it is
      -change adgroup 2 to not have this negative match. Theoretically it should work out the way you do it if your negative kw is really set to exact match, strange...
      You could try to see if google will automatically funnel the exact matches to adgroup1 by removing the negative kw, it worked this way about 3 months ago (when i last worked with adwords)

      - R. Shawner
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  • Profile picture of the author Lucid
    Well, if you have the same keywords in different groups or campaigns, only one ad at a time will show. Google should rotate the serving of these ads pretty much evenly. So I don't really know why it's not showing on your Campaign Y. Sounds like Google is telling you why: the keywords are already in Campaign X. But I try not to duplicate keywords in the first place so I don't have much data in that area.

    What I'm trying to figure out is why you are doing this. Having exact matches as negatives does not make any sense to me. If the keyword is not exact, the next default in line is phrase match, which is what you are attempting to do. The system will do this for you without you having to think about it and creating those negatives.

    I also don't get your second strategy of duplicate campaigns save for a small change in bid and the networks you are targeting. I never heard of it before. I don't believe the system works the way this Livingston guy says at all. It's a bad idea to implement a strategy about an assumption of the Adwords algorithm, which only Google would know about and which could change at any moment.

    My suggestions: remove all those negatives on exact matches and run only one campaign.
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    • Profile picture of the author Colin Y.J. Chung
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Lucid View Post

      What I'm trying to figure out is why you are doing this. Having exact matches as negatives does not make any sense to me. If the keyword is not exact, the next default in line is phrase match, which is what you are attempting to do. The system will do this for you without you having to think about it and creating those negatives.
      I want to make SURE in the phrase match ad group that NO exact matches show up at ALL. Are you sure Google want serve exact matches to both ad groups?

      Originally Posted by Lucid View Post

      I also don't get your second strategy of duplicate campaigns save for a small change in bid and the networks you are targeting. I never heard of it before. I don't believe the system works the way this Livingston guy says at all. It's a bad idea to implement a strategy about an assumption of the Adwords algorithm, which only Google would know about and which could change at any moment.

      My suggestions: remove all those negatives on exact matches and run only one campaign.
      It's trying to make it so I can separate the Search Network from the Google because as of right now Adwords will tie Search Network with Google.

      The logic is... Google will see that and go, well, I'm getting a higher bid over here (campaign 1) so I'm not going to serve campaign 2 any Google searches, only search networks.

      But what you said makes sense. Thanks for the response!
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  • Profile picture of the author Lucid
    Whatever you do, don't follow Terry's advice. Having multiple accounts is against the TOS (Terms of Service) and can get you banned from using Adwords.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dave Ward
    Campaign X (Google Only)
    Adgroup 1: Exact match keyword only
    Adgroup 2: Phrase match with exact match as negative (so that I ONLY get phrase match searches with extra words, and all exact matches funnel to Adgroup 1 only)
    Google ain't running Adgroup 2, because they say the negative keyword is blocking the keywords.

    I got this strategy from STSE 2.0. Is this not valid anymore?

    If you only have the phrase match for the keyword in the ad group, there is no need to ad a negative of the same word. You would only use negative for certain words within a phrase for which you would not want to show, not for the main keyword itself.

    Exactly the same as above but with a penny less on the CPC bid.

    Google ain't running this campaign at all because they're telling me the keywords are already in another campaign...

    I got the 1 penny less strategy from Glenn Livingston... he says Google will only funnel search partner stuff to this campaign because Google's smart enough to make more money on campaign X.

    Again... is this not valid anymore?
    If set up correctly it works, though if using phrase or broad match, it will tend to appear on both search and partner networks. It works better with exact match. If you are sure have search partners switched off in campaign X , then it should work as Livingston described, though there is nothing to say you can't bid even lower than one penny.
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  • Profile picture of the author Lucid
    > I want to make SURE in the phrase match ad group that NO exact matches show up at > ALL. Are you sure Google want serve exact matches to both ad groups?

    I think you meant to write won't instead of want. But yes, I'm sure. That's the very definition of exact match. It will show only if the user typed exactly the keyword as you have specified, same words, same order. Of course, if you don't have an exact match, the phrase would be used. But if you have both, the exact is used first if there's a match.

    I understand you want to separate Google's own search and the search partners. It would be nice at times if you could select the search partners only without using Google's, but you can't.

    But that is not what you are trying to do. It seems to me you want to reduce your costs on the search partners and if this trick actually worked, you would.

    If the search partners are profitable to you, use them. Otherwise, don't.
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    • Profile picture of the author Colin Y.J. Chung
      Banned
      Heh. Third year English Literature drop-out here and my grammar vanishes when I type fast...

      OK... I'll turn off the negative.

      I'm going to go to the source and ask about the search network though... (if I can.)
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    • Profile picture of the author dburk
      Hi Colin,

      The AdWords Keyword Analysis Tool or Diagnostics page isn't sophisticated enough to report information correctly when using that bidding tactic. Let me be clear, it reports that your ads are not being displayed yet they are, at least for me they are.

      You need to check for impressions yourself because the diagnostic tool often reports false negatives. It really should report that your ad might not be displayed, which is true in certain circumstances and that was in fact your intent. You don't want the ad displayed unless it isn't an exact match.

      Now if you check and indeed your ads are never generating impressions for the keyword in question, you should verify that your have added the negative properly, that you have added it as a ad group negative, not a campaign negative. Also this tactic should be employed only on Search Network Only campaigns, as it would prevent your ads from displaying on the Content Network.

      You may need to be patient because some keywords will rarely trigger the phrase match keyword because people rarely include the phrase in a long tail search.

      There are many other possibilities including a poor quality score or significant competition. Verify that you have a good quality score and jack the bid way up to see if you start generating impressions.

      I have hundreds of thousands of ad groups setup this way and have no problems with it.
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      • Profile picture of the author Colin Y.J. Chung
        Banned
        dburk, I checked today. You're right, the impressions are racking up. I'll try not to listen to Google diagnostics in the future.
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