PBN Footprint

10 years ago

Originally Posted by shelviwu

Hi all Master SEO, what do you think about PBN Footprint?

I have several PBN with this details:
- hosted in same hosting with same IP
- registered in Google Webmaster under 1 account

I know this is stupid things and not usefull because it tells search engine that all my PBNs are related.

My questions is:
If i move all the my PBNs and hosted in different hosting with unique IPs and remove my PBNs from Google Webmaster, did my PBNs still have a footprint?

It would not be a readily and easily identifiable footprint, but I'm sure Google stores some historical data like that. If they are taking a closer look and trying to determine if the sites might be a part of a network, yeah, you are screwed.

Thanks

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Mike Anthony

10 years ago

Having known hundreds of people that have built PBNs I have never ever heard of anyone being penalized because of what IPs their PBNs were before the penalty.

I'd move the sites as soon as possible and make sure they have no other on page footprints. Its terribly terribly unlikely that Google will ever hurt a PBN solely on past IP addresses.

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MikeFriedman

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Having known hundreds of people that have built PBNs I have never ever heard of anyone being penalized because of what IPs their PBNs were before the penalty.

I'd move the sites as soon as possible and make sure they have no other on page footprints. Its terribly terribly unlikely that Google will ever hurt a PBN solely on past IP addresses.

Yep. The only way it would be an issue is in the case of a manual inspection.

The same Webmaster Tools account would be a much bigger initial concern to me unless you have built fantastic sites and it makes total sense why they are linked together.

Thanks
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Mike Anthony

10 years ago

Originally Posted by johnben1444

I suggest you take off your links at once until you have hosted all the sites independently. Never run a single account for your PBNs.

If the linked to sites are at the point where the loss of links won't matter I'd say thats pretty good advice

Originally Posted by MikeFriedman

No. Don't go changing links. That just looks more suspicious.

Honestly don't know what you are talking about in this thread Mike. You are just constantly off. In the history of Google a webmaster removing spammy links has never and will never be suspicious for a site not even penalized yet. In fact removing such links signals the real possibility the webmaster is cleaning up his profile and going white hat. This is EXACTLY what Google tells webmasters to do.

Further more it is HIGHLY dubious that any manual google reviewer would not only check past IPs but also look past the fact that when they reviewed WMT the sites were not pointing like a PBN would. Nothing else spammy and the manual review would 10 to 1 die right there.

Originally Posted by MikeFriedman

The same Webmaster Tools account would be a much bigger initial concern to me

Agreed but only because they are linked which is why I agree with Johnben's suggestion of removing them provided the OP is in a place SEo wise where he can do so (eg perhaps not ranking for his keywords yet). Again what PBN has ever been deindexed on a manual review when there were no links pointing to a money site - none that anyone can show. its not even a PBN if there are no links (or link throughs) to a common domain.

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MikeFriedman

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Honestly don't know what you are talking about in this thread Mike. You are just constantly off. In the history of Google a webmaster removing spammy links has never and will never be suspicious for a site not even penalized yet. In fact removing such links signals the real possibility the webmaster is cleaning up his profile and going white hat. This is EXACTLY what Google tells webmasters to do.

Further more it is HIGHLY dubious that any manual google reviewer would not only check past IPs but also look past the fact that when they reviewed WMT the sites were not pointing like a PBN would. Nothing else spammy and the manual review would 10 to 1 die right there.

Agreed but only because they are linked which is why I agree with Johnben's suggestion of removing them provided the OP is in a place SEo wise where he can do so (eg perhaps not ranking for his keywords yet). Again what PBN has ever been deindexed on a manual review when there were no links pointing to a money site - none that anyone can show. its not even a PBN if there are no links (or link throughs) to a common domain.

The whole premise is that the most likely way a network like this is getting outed is through a manual review. A easily detectable footprint, like having 20 sites on the same IP link to the same money site or having 20 sites in the same Search Console account link to the same money site, could trigger a manual review.

The only other way it is likely going to get detected is if the hosting account is targeted by Google, like in the case of what has happened to many "SEO hosts".

So based on that...

I wouldn't bother removing the links. If you get hit by a manual review, they likely can see the history of the sites. It would look more suspicious if the 20 links were suddenly removed (even in white hat cleanups, it is rare to get links removed all at once), and even more suspicious still if a few weeks later the links are all back.

We honestly don't know what manual reviewers from the spam team do and do not look at. I would think they would take a look at least at a brief history of the site, and for Google it is likely that things like domain ownership, hosting IPs, outbound link profile, etc. is data that they do not have to dig around for. It is probably at the tip of their fingers.

Thanks
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Mike Anthony

10 years ago

Originally Posted by MikeFriedman

I wouldn't bother removing the links. If you get hit by a manual review, they likely can see the history of the sites. It would look more suspicious if the 20 links were suddenly removed (even in white hat cleanups, it is rare to get links removed all at once), and even more suspicious still if a few weeks later the links are all back.

Sorry Mike but you are making ZERO sense. If you leave the links in and you get a manual review then they are there and you are toast. If there is a report that the site is using such links and they go in and find no active links then you have a chance the reviewer says - hey false report. We both know it may be months before there could be a review

So on one hand you have a manual review and the links are there proof positive and you surely get deindexed or they go in and don't see the links. How in the world you think its better to have the evidence staring right in the reviewers face that you are running a PBN is strange thinking to say the least.

and yes a webmaster can and some do remove links of a pbn because they did not know it was against the rules. Whit hat cleanups of PBNs ALWAYS happen at once because well - they are PBNS and owned so link removal can be done immediately.A couple years back I consulted with a company that had already bought a few thousand dollars worth of domains before they approached us. we were honest and told them it was black/grey hat and guess what? they took all sites off line (their own internal decision). If anything were to have happened they at least would be looking better for a reconsideration as opposed to the hopelessness of the links still being in place when the review took place.

The afterward putting the links back as a big issue isn't making much sense either. Once you get past a manual review you are unlikely to ever get dinged if you have no other footprints so you concentrate on that at that point.

We honestly don't know what manual reviewers from the spam team do and do not look at. I would think they would take a look at least at a brief history of the site, and for Google it is likely that things like domain ownership, hosting IPs, outbound link profile, etc. is data that they do not have to dig around for. It is probably at the tip of their fingers.

All that is just empty conjecture compared to the single reality that no one ever has shown someone getting deindexed based on the past and not the present time of the review. thats just making up things out of imagination.

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johnben1444

10 years ago

I suggest you take off your links at once until you have hosted all the sites independently. Never run a single account for your PBNs.

For better result, you need to have quality domains otherwise your effort will still be in vain..

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MikeFriedman

10 years ago

Originally Posted by johnben1444

I suggest you take off your links at once until you have hosted all the sites independently. Never run a single account for your PBNs.

For better result, you need to have quality domains otherwise your effort will still be in vain..

No. Don't go changing links. That just looks more suspicious.

Thanks

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Corey Taylor

10 years ago

Originally Posted by shelviwu

Hi all Master SEO, what do you think about PBN Footprint?

I have several PBN with this details:
- hosted in same hosting with same IP
- registered in Google Webmaster under 1 account

I know this is stupid things and not usefull because it tells search engine that all my PBNs are related.

My questions is:
If i move all the my PBNs and hosted in different hosting with unique IPs and remove my PBNs from Google Webmaster, did my PBNs still have a footprint?

Unfortunately google keeps a record of what happened in the past, so chances are that yes, it might leave a footprint. I'd suggest to start a new pbn and not mess with the old ones. Time is money my friend.

Thanks
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Mike Anthony 10 years ago

Originally Posted by Corey Taylor

Unfortunately google keeps a record of what happened in the past, so chances are that yes.

We still await some data to back this up.

Meanwhile theres a lot of indications this is false. I'll list just four.

1) no webmaster doing white hat Seo for a year or more has ever got a notice that the site is being deindexed or penalized based on what he did and stopped doing a year or two ago.

2) it has been common practice for PBN builders to buy domains that were at some point part of a PBN. As long as the profile was still strong , not overly spammy and the domain not deindexed no one who bought them has reported the domains just out of the blue were penalized for past sins.

3) some people have bought domains previously used as PBNs as part of a network of sites they own that are real sites that interlink (Insurance, employment and travel services do this a lot). Again none have reported getting retroactive penalties.

4) Google themselves tells you if you are penalized to remove the links as best you can and that it increases the chance of a reconsideration. there is not a shred of evidence that a company that cleans up even before being reviewed gets dinged for the past.

I find that non programmers not understanding programming and data storage issues thinks google stores everything and writes programs to access everything with a simple snap of their finger. Writing database queries and build them into programs to access what the IP of a site was five years ago is the kind of thing that has such limited utility (in this case just dinging a site that no longer uses PBNs) companies will almost never waste programming hours on that.
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shelviwu

10 years ago

Hi all, thanks for all your opinion and suggestions, right now my PBNs have no critical issue like penalized or deindexed. So far still okay and have no problem. Any suggestion should i move to new hosting with unique dedicated IP? or just left it like that? Thanks

Thanks
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Mike Anthony

10 years ago

Originally Posted by shelviwu

Hi all, thanks for all your opinion and suggestions, right now my PBNs have no critical issue like penalized or deindexed. So far still okay and have no problem. Any suggestion should i move to new hosting with unique dedicated IP? or just left it like that? Thanks

You most definitely should not leave them as they are. We all agree that having them all in WMT is crazy going froward

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yukon

Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by shelviwu

- registered in Google Webmaster under 1 account

lol............................................... .......

Thanks

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