Number 1, page 1 of Google,

Barrion

14 years ago

well, maybe you used keywords that.. nobody use?

Thanks
2 replies

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Stephen Crooks

14 years ago

Although the competition might initially look quite large this is no indicator whether people actually search for your keyword phrase. How many searches (phrase or exact match) does your keyword get? Also, how many competing pages are there when you search for your keyword phrase in quotes?

Thanks
1 reply

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stallen

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Steve Crooks

Although the competition might initially look quite large this is no indicator whether people actually search for your keyword phrase. How many searches (phrase or exact match) does your keyword get? Also, how many competing pages are there when you search for your keyword phrase in quotes?

Hi Steve,

Thanks for the reply. the response has been great and very helpful so far.

If I do a phrase match or exact match then the results are low, sometimes in the tens. But am I right in thinking that most people do a search for words that are not in quotes? I am using a tool called rank checker from w3.link-assistant.com

The competition when searching quoted keywords is also very low.

Thanks,

Stallen

Thanks
1 reply

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kevinpotts

14 years ago

Have you thought about and set up compelling Description Tags, which end up as the summaries on the Search Engine results pages. We have done a lot of testing on this and discovered a significant correlation.

Kevin

Thanks
2 replies

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TristanPerry

14 years ago

Hmm, it does sound possible that the keyword tool you are using simply is over-estimating the number of searches.

This below post a good general point though:

Originally Posted by kevinpotts

Have you thought about and set up compelling Description Tags, which end up as the summaries on the Search Engine results pages. We have done a lot of testing on this and discovered a significant correlation.

Kevin

I've definitely found this. For one of my micro niche websites I had a really lame meta description tag - was just like "Get information on x here". I was at 2nd spot, but am not getting much traffic. I've just changed it to "Find the best deals on x and ..." and am hoping that Google will re-crawl and that will result in a change in the number of visitors I get from Google.

It definitely should make a difference.

Thanks

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stallen

14 years ago

Originally Posted by kevinpotts

Have you thought about and set up compelling Description Tags, which end up as the summaries on the Search Engine results pages. We have done a lot of testing on this and discovered a significant correlation.

Kevin

Hi Kevin,

Thanks for your reply.

Yeah, the description tags are very good in my opinion (which possibly counts for nothing,lol) I think I might be expecting too much from the broad match terms. I was thinking that I should be getting about 40% of the broad match searches for my keywords if I am in the number one spot for that broad match keyword search. But it seems that the thinking on this is different to what I am expecting to see.

thanks,

Stallen

Thanks

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stallen 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Barrion

well, maybe you used keywords that.. nobody use?

Hi Barrion,

Thanks for the reply. As regards the keywords. I did some very good keyword research and as I stated in my post, the searches for these keywords range from 700,000 to 4,000,000 searches per month. Which is what is puzzling me. or am I missing something?

Thanks once again for taking the time to read my post and reply.

Stallen
- Thanks
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AravindR

14 years ago

It is advisable to wait for two-three weeks to see the results.
Are you sure that your traffic analysis tool is giving you correct results of the traffic which you get? (I had an experience, that I had removed the code which is used to trace the traffic, then I had complained that there is no traffic, after sometimes, when I check the code, it is removed. Then I re-installed and it works)

Thanks
1 reply

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stallen

14 years ago

Originally Posted by AravindR

It is advisable to wait for two-three weeks to see the results.
Are you sure that your traffic analysis tool is giving you correct results of the traffic which you get? (I had an experience, that I had removed the code which is used to trace the traffic, then I had complained that there is no traffic, after sometimes, when I check the code, it is removed. Then I re-installed and it works)

Hi Aravindr,

Thanks for the reply,

I am using a tool called rank checker to check the results which then are displayed in my browser so I can check the results are what rank checker is saying they are.

Also, visits on my site are reported by statcounter and logged on my sites admin pages, which is where I am checking the results.

Looking at all the replies, and once again the response has been great, I really appreciate it, the issue is more than likely my relying on the figures for broad match rather than exact phrase matches. But I still would have thought that with up to 4,000,000 broad match phrases that I would still get huge hits to my site.

Thanks,

Stallen

Thanks

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Smokey_Joe

14 years ago

Originally Posted by stallen

Or could it be Google, Bing are doing something to hold the visits back? Although I cannot see how as they are right there in the number 1 positions when I search for them in the browser.

The only way Google or Bing could hold the visits back is by sending you way down the serps

I guess a blanket statement here could be that there could have been a slip in your keyword decision, that is, you could be targeting a keyword that does not exactly fit your page.

However, traffic is also to be characterised by quality as well as by quantity - some two really targeted users might be more important than hundreds of (let me call it) dummies. No?

Thanks
3 replies

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Amitywill

14 years ago

Here's what I'm thinking however I may be wrong because
I don't know the full details about your site and keywords etc.

1) Maybe the broad version of your keyword gets a lot of
searches but the exact version gets less.

2) The keyword tool you are using is rubbish?

3) This may be unlikely but I've had a problem before where
I was number 1 in Google for a keyword on MY computer
but for some reason when I checked on other computers with
different IPs I wasn't on page 1. Maybe this is happening for you.

4) No keyword tool can give you the exact number of searches a
keyword gets. It's possible the tool you used was just way off.

5) Maybe your title tag is not converting and no-one wants to
click on your site.

Will Cooper

PS: If you want to PM me your site and keywords I could have a
look for you.

Thanks
2 replies

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stallen

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Amitywill

Here's what I'm thinking however I may be wrong because
I don't know the full details about your site and keywords etc.

1) Maybe the broad version of your keyword gets a lot of
searches but the exact version gets less.

2) The keyword tool you are using is rubbish?

3) This may be unlikely but I've had a problem before where
I was number 1 in Google for a keyword on MY computer
but for some reason when I checked on other computers with
different IPs I wasn't on page 1. Maybe this is happening for you.

4) No keyword tool can give you the exact number of searches a
keyword gets. It's possible the tool you used was just way off.

5) Maybe your title tag is not converting and no-one wants to
click on your site.

Will Cooper

PS: If you want to PM me your site and keywords I could have a
look for you.

Hello Will Cooper,

Thanks for replying. Its much appreciated.

'1) Maybe the broad version of your keyword gets a lot of
searches but the exact version gets less.'

Yes, the broad search terms have a lot of visits, the exact has much much less, but shouldnt I still be getting big traffic for 4,000,000 broad searches at position 1?

'2) The keyword tool you are using is rubbish?'

I have been using several keyword tools including Googles and I think I am at least in the ball park with my selections, although I could be wrong, I have been wrong before,lol.

'3) This may be unlikely but I've had a problem before where
I was number 1 in Google for a keyword on MY computer
but for some reason when I checked on other computers with
different IPs I wasn't on page 1. Maybe this is happening for you.'

I dont think its this as I am using rankchecker and also viewing the results on the Google page in my browser.

'4) No keyword tool can give you the exact number of searches a
keyword gets. It's possible the tool you used was just way off.'

As you say this could be the case but I dont think rankchecker is going to be that far off and statcounter is reporting on the number of page views/hits.

'5) Maybe your title tag is not converting and no-one wants to
click on your site.'

I think my title tag is fine, a good description with my keywords in it. Not just click here.

Thanks man,

Stallen

Thanks

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Oitbbitw2007

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Amitywill

Here's what I'm thinking however I may be wrong because
I don't know the full details about your site and keywords etc.

1) Maybe the broad version of your keyword gets a lot of
searches but the exact version gets less.

2) The keyword tool you are using is rubbish?

3) This may be unlikely but I've had a problem before where
I was number 1 in Google for a keyword on MY computer
but for some reason when I checked on other computers with
different IPs I wasn't on page 1. Maybe this is happening for you.

4) No keyword tool can give you the exact number of searches a
keyword gets. It's possible the tool you used was just way off.

5) Maybe your title tag is not converting and no-one wants to
click on your site.

Will Cooper

PS: If you want to PM me your site and keywords I could have a
look for you.

Please Can You Suggest Me Free And Good Keyword Tool ?

Thanks
1 reply

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Amitywill 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Oitbbitw2007

Please Can You Suggest Me Free And Good Keyword Tool ?

The free tools I'd recommend would be-

https://adwords.google.com/select/KeywordToolExternal

and

Free GTrends Tool From Wordtracker

Neither of them can give you the exact numbers a keyword gets,
not even Google's own tool :rolleyes:

But if you use them together for your keyword research then you
can usually get some pretty accurate numbers most of the time.

Will
- Thanks
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edynas

Banned 14 years ago

I get also the idea that your keyword research is not ok. Because the number of searches you say the keyword has....that is enourmous and to give you an idea of words in that range i list some high searches last month in the US

Michael Jackson : 16,600,000 searches
digital cameras: 6,120,000 searches
tv: 2,240,000
dvd: 4,090,000

So if you say your keywords get up to 4 million searches a month it is in the same range as the word tv or dvd. And no way that if you are number 1 for one of those that you get 10 visits a day.

So maybe you could share the tools you used to do your keyword research with and tell a bit about how you found the numbers as I get a very strong feeling you are looking at some wrong numbers.

Edwin

Thanks
1 reply

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stallen

14 years ago

Originally Posted by edynas

I get also the idea that your keyword research is not ok. Because the number of searches you say the keyword has....that is enourmous and to give you an idea of words in that range i list some high searches last month in the US

Michael Jackson : 16,600,000 searches
digital cameras: 6,120,000 searches
tv: 2,240,000
dvd: 4,090,000

So if you say your keywords get up to 4 million searches a month it is in the same range as the word tv or dvd. And no way that if you are number 1 for one of those that you get 10 visits a day.

So maybe you could share the tools you used to do your keyword research with and tell a bit about how you found the numbers as I get a very strong feeling you are looking at some wrong numbers.

Edwin

Hi Edwin,

Thanks for replying.

I am using Ranchecker to check my keyword placements which then allows me to view the page in Googles/Bings/Yahoos browser window.

Its looking like the main problem is I am expecting to see good traffic from large broad match searches.

Thanks for your response man. The response to my post has been great.

thanks to you all,

Stallen

Thanks

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stallen

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Smokey_Joe

The only way Google or Bing could hold the visits back is by sending you way down the serps

I guess a blanket statement here could be that there could have been a slip in your keyword decision, that is, you could be targeting a keyword that does not exactly fit your page.

However, traffic is also to be characterised by quality as well as by quantity - some two really targeted users might be more important than hundreds of (let me call it) dummies. No?

Hi Smokey_Joe,

Thanks for your reply.

I am starting to think that maybe my keyword choice/thinking is in fact skewed somewhat. Although my keywords fit exactly with my website niche I am relying on thinking that massive broad searches should also bring me lots of traffic but the feedback seems to be that this is not the case.

Right now I am not thinking about the quality of traffic, just that there is a low volume for the number of searches, albeit broad term searches.

Once again,thanks.

Stallen

Thanks

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traceye

14 years ago

I think you said that the exact match gets very low searches - and that is what you are experiencing.

The problem with looking at the broad match is that people could be typing in anything to get that number of searches but they are not specifically related to the exact match of your keyword.

For example. Let's say your keyword is car tyres.

People could be typing in anything such as 'where do I get new car tyres in Lancaster', 'how do you know you need new car tyres', do car tyres come in pink' and so on and the keyword tool will include those as a broad match for just car tyres even though no one actually types in JUST those keywords.

That's why using exact match in your keyword tool will give you a much more realistic picture of what traffic you get.

Yes when checking your keyword in the rankings you want to type your keyword as a broad match since that is what people will by typing in, however when determining how much TRAFFIC that keyword gets you need to use exact match.

Did that make sense?

[ 1 ] Thanks
2 replies

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stallen

14 years ago

Originally Posted by traceye

I think you said that the exact match gets very low searches - and that is what you are experiencing.

The problem with looking at the broad match is that people could be typing in anything to get that number of searches but they are not specifically related to the exact match of your keyword.

For example. Let's say your keyword is car tyres.

People could be typing in anything such as 'where do I get new car tyres in Lancaster', 'how do you know you need new car tyres', do car tyres come in pink' and so on and the keyword tool will include those as a broad match for just car tyres even though no one actually types in JUST those keywords.

That's why using exact match in your keyword tool will give you a much more realistic picture of what traffic you get.

Yes when checking your keyword in the rankings you want to type your keyword as a broad match since that is what people will by typing in, however when determining how much TRAFFIC that keyword gets you need to use exact match.

Did that make sense?

Hi Traceye,

Thanks for the reply. yeah, that makes perfect sense. Got me thinking now though,lol. I have been targeting broad match search phrases and possibly clears up why high KEI keywords makes much more sense to target, but a lot lot harder to rank highly for.lol.

Am I right in thinking though that if you target the broad matches around your keywords and rank highly for them then the exact matches will follow?

thanks,

Stallen

Thanks

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Jeff Hollyhand

14 years ago

Originally Posted by traceye

Yes when checking your keyword in the rankings you want to type your keyword as a broad match since that is what people will by typing in, however when determining how much TRAFFIC that keyword gets you need to use exact match.

Very Well Said

[ 1 ] Thanks
1 reply

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stallen 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Jeff Hollyhand

Very Well Said

Yeah, its all been very helpful. But now I am a bit confused over my keyword strategies

Should I initially target broad keywords and when ranking for those then target exact keywords, or a mixture of the two at the outset?

Is there a maximum amount of keywords to add as Tags or just add all the keyword tags that have a good KEI but optimize for say ten of those on each page used to target those keywords?

Phew! my head hurts,lol.

Stallen
- Thanks
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stallen

14 years ago

I would just like to say you guys have been great. The response has been fantastic.

I will be hanging around and hopefully getting to know you all a lot better.

Keep up the good work guys.

I had seen messages about being a paid member and wondering whether its worth it! wow, if this is the response to unpaid members then I guess I better get the old credit card out,lol.

Stallen

Thanks
1 reply

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ryandales2000 14 years ago

The big lesson here is to use EXACT MATCH rather than BROAD MATCH to get a more accurate projection of the number of expected traffic. But even then this is only an approximation.

The best and most accurate picture of the traffic for a certain keyword is to run a PPC campaign for that particular keyword. Bid high so that you will get the top listing for Adwords and run the PPC campaign for a day or two. The primary objective is not to get clicks but to get the number of impressions. That number is the best traffic indicator for that keyword.
- [ 1 ] Thanks
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Jeff Hollyhand

14 years ago

I will try to help.

The confusion maybe between broad match search results, and broad vs. exact match traffic.

Exact match traffic is the number of broad match searches for your keyword phrase, which can often be the only time your page come up #1.

Example: one of my sites currently ranks #1 in Google for: Real Estate Contract

The board match traffic for the term is over 100,000 month but that does not mean people search the term Real Estate Contract 100,000 a month.

My site only show up #1 when someone types: Real Estate Contract
in the search box, which is only 4,000 to 5,000 time a month

Thanks

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Jeff Hollyhand

14 years ago

Well, I am not having any luck editing the post above.

I was just going to add.
The board match traffic (the 100,000 per month) would be for all kind of searches that contain the words: Real Estate Contract

Free real estate contract
Where can I get a real estate contract
California real estate contract
Commercial real estate contract

And so on

When those terms are searched for, my site is usually nowhere to be found.

I hope this helps you figure out why your #1 ranking is not get enough traffic.

Good Luck

[ 1 ] Thanks
1 reply

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JustaWizard 14 years ago

I don't know if this is repeat or not (or helpful or not), but if you're checking your ranking in Google directly, be sure when you're not signed into any of your Google accounts because that'll serve up skewed results based on your search patterns.
- [ 1 ] Thanks
- 1 reply
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- gjedda63 14 years ago
  
  Hello Stallen, you are not the only one doing this mistake. Lots of people have done the same,including me. Hunted several months get on top with a phrase, towed my hands when I climbed to spot 1 but ended up "banging my head in wall" when almost nothing happened.
  Now I make sure every phrase is in exact match and test every one with a cheap PPC campaign.
  I have used many keyword tools including google`s and market samurai but now I mostly use "Matts free keyword tool" which I think come closest to the truth.
  "Mistakes are just corrections on your way to the top"
  
  [ 1 ] Thanks
  
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Floyd Bogart

14 years ago

I see people advising you on Title and Description
Tags but what about your domain name itself?!

I've read a lot from PPC folks about how important
the domain name is in getting clicks, so no doubt
the same would be true or organic search engine
results...

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Preciseim

14 years ago

Hi there,

I mean that is really strange.

Because that just doesn't seem right.

Have you tried searching for an exact match? I think that should give you a more realistic idea. But even then there is no guarantee as to the accuracy of the numbers.

Something sounds wrong to me.

[ 1 ] Thanks

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oleic23

Banned 14 years ago

[DELETED]

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dburk 14 years ago

Hi Stallen,

As I'm sure you are learning, you can never use Broad match search volume data for Organic traffic research. There is no way to even know which keywords may be triggering searches due to Google's extended broad match feature. You would have to rank number 1 for all the different broad match terms including all the extended match keywords.

There's no way to even know how many different keywords are included in the broad match data, much less which keywords are included. How could you know where you rank on all those keywords if you don't even know what those keywords are?

The only setting that gives you meaningful search volume data for a particular keyword is the exact match setting. Broad and phrase match settings give you data for an unknown number of different keywords all lumped together, no way to know which keywords are getting how much traffic.
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stallen

14 years ago

Hello to everyone who has contributed and who is viewing this post.

You guys have been very helpful. I now realise that I need to do the exact keyword math in order to truly see which keywords to challenge for.

Initially I was rather despondent with the findings i.e. I am not actually in the number 1 position in Google and am not going to be a millionaire by this coming Monday,lol.

But, using the RankTracker tool I mentioned it is relatively easy to go through the keywords ranking for my domain name ( which contains the keyword phrase I am targeting for my niche) And lo and behold even though I am not number 1 out of 4,000,000, things actually are not that bad.

For instance although one of my phrases is listed as 45th in Google for the broad match it is actually listed as ranking 8th out of 187,000 , and rising (Generally) this is rather strange but good

another one listed as 43 for the broad match out of 1,500,000is actually 14th out of 70,700 Although these are not the number of searches per month things could be looking interesting over the next couple of weeks. I shall keep you informed.

For my research I have been using IBP, SEO elite, keyword elite, and as I have already mentioned RankTracker.

Anyone using any other good tools for checking 'Exact' rankings for their keywords?

Thanks,

Stallen

Stallen

Thanks

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stallen

14 years ago

Hi Guys,

Well, I have been looking at the various tools I have for doing kw research, i.e. Keyword elite, ranktracker, matts free keyword research tool , IBP.

Out of these the most versatile seems to be the IBP software, which although is about £200 for the standard version also offers a lot more services, e.g. website optimiser, find link partners, rank checking and a whole lot more.

I have been doing some more research today and it is really fast for finding your main keywords and long tail keywords, you can add text to the beginning of your keywords e.g. best and can find synonyms for those words as well as add countries, towns, counties etc. You can then also check your KEI for those words. You can check your KEI at any stage actually.

Now, although it has been great at finding even more keywords the problem is I have so many possible good keywords that I now am left with the problem of how many to add to my website! Generally people seem to advocate no more or around 10, but this seems to leave a lot of potential traffic hanging out there. Would people generally add all their keywords but only optimize for their 10 most targeted ones? i.e. not too much competition but a fair amount of searches?

I suppose once you start ranking for those words you can then go for the more competitive keywords? Well, thats the plan.

Stallen

Thanks

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wolfmmiii

14 years ago

Adding too many keywords to tags can be read as keyword spamming by the bots.

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stallen 14 years ago

Originally Posted by wolfmmiii

Adding too many keywords to tags can be read as keyword spamming by the bots.

Hi Wolfmmiii,

Thanks for the reply. yeah, forgot about that,lol. How many would you think is the maximum? Would you then optimize some pages for those good keywords which you wouldnt have added to your tags?

Thanks,

Stallen
- Thanks
- 1 reply
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- dburk 14 years ago
  
  Hi Stallen,
  
  As TerryG suggested, focus on one keyword per page. There is no limit to how many pages you can post, so go for as many different keywords as you like.
  
  Be careful to not spread your efforts too thin. It doesn't help you to have hundreds of keywords and not be on the first page of SERP for any of them. Pick a small group of keywords and build optimized pages for those keywords then promote them until you get to the first page of SERP. Rinse and repeat with the next group of keywords.
  
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TerryG

14 years ago

Hello Stallen, first of I would like to say thank you for asking this question as I too have found myself in a similar position. I really thought it was going to be big and my ship had finally come in, but alas, only 3k visitors a day.

I now have the view that getting number 1 is not what it is all cracked up to be, unless you have a compelling site.

As I believe you and the other Warriors will be doing, just like me, is to start looking for that next BIG keyword phrase.

As to your keyword research, I have always found one post, one keyword phrase only. Too many phrases or keywords dilute the posts potential of solid targeting. Good luck..

Thanks

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seobird

Banned 14 years ago

[DELETED]

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stallen

14 years ago

Originally Posted by seobird

Stallen, have you tried to check the keywords you rank for in any seo-tool? You may learn how valuable are your keywords using one of them like spyfu or semrush and know if your expectations are real.
besides, try typing in your domain into Seopivot. i found out that i have good positions for the keywords i've never new about O_o

Hi Seobird,

Thanks for taking the time to respond to this post.

Yeah, I have checked my keywords using RankTrackers KEI Tool, and then rinsed them somewhat to fit in with my niche i.e. chose the best KEI keywords that have my keywords that are also part of my domain name. I have chosen 15 of these KWs to target on my home page. But, I have targetted the keyword which I feel I have the best chance of ranking for to be the main target for ranking. The other keywords are still taken in to account for the home page though.

I have a list of about 20 top keywords to target, 20 mid keywords and 20 lower keywords to target.

All these keywords have been researched using IBP's keyword tool. I initially started with about 2000 keywords which then got sorted in to the best KEI and then I chose the 60 most relevant ones with the highest KEIs and broke them down in to the best ones around my main keyword.

As I say, the home page is highly targetted for my main keyword whilst taking in to account the others in my top 20.

I then plan on creating a page/post for each of the remaining keywords and working on them in KEI ranking order.

I reckon that should do it. But if people think otherwise please feel free to input

Thanks for the tips on the SEO rank checking, I will check them out today. Maybe starting with SEO pivot?

I must admit that I was kind of shocked at how many KWs I was ranking for that are exact matches. Although I am on page one for several low search volume traffic I am also on the 2nd and 3rd pages for some reasonably high traffic volume ones as well. Between 2000 and 187000 searches with medium to high competition.

So I have a reasonable footprint and have only had the website up for 6 weeks

(Is this normal?)

Anyway, thanks again everyone for the input.

Take care.

stallen

Thanks

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