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I recently had my client join the local Chamber of Commerce. There are many good reasons for it, but one such reason has to do with SEO.

The Chambers DA is 43. And the link to your website is definitely a follow link. So that's a good thing. Plus I can create 3 other pages with links going to different pages on our site (link diversity) So its worth 4 mediumish quality back links. Now here's the mystery I want feedback on ...

We are starting with a PA of 1. From what I have seen everybody starts there. However, it seems within a few months everyone gets to about 20 PA.

I want to hear any theories you might have on how that PA gets increased. I will list a couple thoughts I am having on it.

But 1st here is a random example of the actual directory page with PA of 21 I think it was. It appears as though they created their membership 6 months ago.

Sentinel Termite & Pest | PEST MANAGEMENT SERVICES - Chamber of Commerce of the Palm Beaches, FL

Theories, In no particular order:

1. It simply needs to still be indexed by Google in order to score any PA.
2.There are numerous other FOLLOW PR 2-3 links pointing at the directory page.

I am leaning and hoping that its simply #1 Google hasn't indexed it yet ... because it seems to consistent to be anything else. Like member after member that has been on the directory for longer than a couple month gets that PA up to 20.

Obviously, I ask because I would like to expedite the process along quicker.

I appreciate any feedback.
#backlinks #guru #seo
  • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
    PA is based on links on Opensite Explorer's database. That's it.

    But Google, nor any other search engine, does not use PA as a ranking factor, so I really would not worry about it or pay any attention to it.

    PA has nothing to do with Google indexing the page or not. PA is 100% about Moz. It might take them weeks or months to crawl the page and update their data.

    Again, it is not a ranking factor, so I wouldn't worry about it. Build what you need and move on.
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    • Profile picture of the author Daniel Lezcano
      Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

      PA is based on links on Opensite Explorer's database. That's it.

      But Google, nor any other search engine, does not use PA as a ranking factor, so I really would not worry about it or pay any attention to it.

      PA has nothing to do with Google indexing the page or not. PA is 100% about Moz. It might take them weeks or months to crawl the page and update their data.

      Again, it is not a ranking factor, so I wouldn't worry about it. Build what you need and move on.
      Right I know they don't use PA as a factor ... but it's not so simple as to suggest PA isn't important. Right?

      If you have 2 pages that all things are equal on except 1 thing, one has PA 30 and the other PA 40 ... PA 40 wins in search results???? PA is simply a reflection of SEO quality in general.

      How can it be any other way? The PA 40 has something influencing its PA score that would undoubtedly set it on top. ??? Yes?

      So one way to increase PA is to get high quality back links, and if you have those links those links do indeed effect search results???
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      • Profile picture of the author paulgl
        Originally Posted by Daniel Lezcano View Post

        Right I know they don't use PA as a factor ... but it's not so simple as to suggest PA isn't important. Right?

        If you have 2 pages that all things are equal on except 1 thing, one has PA 30 and the other PA 40 ... PA 40 wins in search results???? PA is simply a reflection of SEO quality in general.

        How can it be any other way? The PA 40 has something influencing its PA score that would undoubtedly set it on top. ??? Yes?

        So one way to increase PA is to get high quality back links, and if you have those links those links do indeed effect search results???
        PA means diddley squat. So why do you keep insisting it's important? PA is a reflection of a made up metric outside of google. Like alexa. Completely meaningless to google. If something is meaningless to google, and you are working on google SERP seo, well, you are wasting your time.

        If you are referring to the link on the page,it has an onclick with it.
        Ordinarily, the onclick function is performed first. It's tantamount to a redirect. It looks as if it is tracking clickouts. But still, it performs that function first. It is not a straight up link.

        What google does with it is anybody's guess.

        I won't even say a thing about taking clients...

        Paul
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        • Profile picture of the author Daniel Lezcano
          Originally Posted by paulgl View Post

          I won't even say a thing about taking clients...
          Now now ... I guess I got a Guru to respond after all. Stop with the tone lol.

          I want to understand this clearly.

          So ... Im not an expert as you so well observed, but PA, the number system made up by Mozz, primary takes into account backlinks, but its the quality back links that have impact. So we have to define quality back links.

          Quality Backlinks = It must be a follow link. Ideally it would be on an industry related site, but does not have to be. Google allows follows from certain authoritative directories because those are edited by humans and maintain rep; hence the difficulty of getting on them.

          Now Google does indeed factor a good backlink profile ... do they not?

          A good backlink profile is a major factor in determining PA.

          So when you say PA is nothing, I get that, but while PA is irrelevant the backlinks are relevant ... are they not?

          So yes I will use PA to help determine value of my links ... Unless you help me to understand something I am missing. It wouldn't be the first time.
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  • Profile picture of the author dave_hermansen
    No, PA 40 does not beat PA 30 in every case. It's an invented metric that works in many cases and is totally irrelevant in others. How about concentrating on getting real links from related websites and not worrying so much about their DA or PA? I guarantee you that if you get links from decent related sites, you'll rise in the rankings, assuming you have a well optimized site with proper grammar.
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    • Profile picture of the author Daniel Lezcano
      Originally Posted by dave_hermansen View Post

      No, PA 40 does not beat PA 30 in every case. It's an invented metric that works in many cases and is totally irrelevant in others. How about concentrating on getting real links from related websites and not worrying so much about their DA or PA? I guarantee you that if you get links from decent related sites, you'll rise in the rankings, assuming you have a well optimized site with proper grammar.
      I hear ya ... I work to get such links, but when I say I'm in a niche market trust me I am ... Its a bit tough to find such links ... so I have to try and get any kind of decent links I can get ... Also realize that quality links dont always have to be from industry related sources ... There are numerous other ways to get legit links. Right?

      Oh and ... I did clearly write "If you have 2 pages that all things are equal on except 1 thing, one has PA 30 and the other PA 40 ... PA 40 wins in search results"
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      • Profile picture of the author savidge4
        Originally Posted by Daniel Lezcano View Post

        I hear ya ... I work to get such links, but when I say I'm in a niche market trust me I am ... Its a bit tough to find such links ... so I have to try and get any kind of decent links I can get ... Also realize that quality links dont always have to be from industry related sources ... There are numerous other ways to get legit links. Right?
        Me personally.... I will take a FEW spot on context related links over just links that someone may find of some made up value. I look beyond just the page.. but what pages are linked to AND from that page. CONTEXT is king

        Originally Posted by Daniel Lezcano View Post

        Oh and ... I did clearly write "If you have 2 pages that all things are equal on except 1 thing, one has PA 30 and the other PA 40 ... PA 40 wins in search results"
        you just cant say that as a absolute positive. A PA 40 may have greater link value, but may score less on context based scoring, may score less on bounce, or keyword proximity, or this and that and the other.. ALL things being equal DOES NOT exist.. is the DA the same? is the PA 30 site a "true" Authority site? ( IE type "Changing CSS in WordPress" in Google and listing number #2 would be a "True" authority site listing. ) There are just way to many variables at play to suggest a single matrix is going to hold true in terms of rank.

        Here is the thing with SEO... as important as linking is.. its not even close to the whole picture. Of the 200 and some variables at play we know the exact placement of 1 and a idea of 2 others. Rank Brain is #3 and Linking and Content are either of #1 and #2. I would suggest Rank Brain is an indicator of CONTEXT.. all that aside, is it really possible that any of these 3, could have above and beyond the value of the others to be a dominate controlling variable? The answer is NO.

        You can have the best content in the world and rank on page 10.. I see that all the time. You can have back linking till your blue in the face, but there still is in low comp terms a chance a page with little to no linking can beat you out. I cant even begin to come up with an analogy for Rank Brain... LOL

        The point is.. if you focus on one variable and one variable alone, your dreams of SERP dominance will not be met. You need to be solid in content, in linking, in on page, in context.. it all has to be there.
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        • Profile picture of the author Daniel Lezcano
          Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

          you just cant say that as a absolute positive. A PA 40 may have greater link value, but may score less on context based scoring, may score less on bounce, or keyword proximity, or this and that and the other.. ALL things being equal DOES NOT exist..
          Thanks for the thorough explanation.

          I am guessing "Bounce Rates" should be a very small factor. If it were more than a small factor that would be unfair. For instance if you have a high bounce rate ... it could mean your site sucks, or it could mean you are a service based business that requires a phone call, user lands on landing page which is so awesome they are sold, they look at the phone number call, set service appointment and bounce.

          I guess you could maybe set up a way to link a phone # to the landing page that counts any call made as a conversion ... therefore Google wouldnt view it as a bounce ... but I never liked having multiple business phone #'s ... "by link I don't mean if they are on mobile they click the #, that would be much easier to deal with. I mean desktop, laptop, tablet users."

          Any suggestions ...
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          • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
            Originally Posted by Daniel Lezcano View Post

            Thanks for the thorough explanation.

            I am guessing "Bounce Rates" should be a very small factor. If it were more than a small factor that would be unfair. For instance if you have a high bounce rate ... it could mean your site sucks, or it could mean you are a service based business that requires a phone call, user lands on landing page which is so awesome they are sold, they look at the phone number call, set service appointment and bounce.

            I guess you could maybe set up a way to link a phone # to the landing page that counts any call made as a conversion ... therefore Google wouldnt view it as a bounce ... but I never liked having multiple business phone #'s ... "by link I don't mean if they are on mobile they click the #, that would be much easier to deal with. I mean desktop, laptop, tablet users."

            Any suggestions ...
            Bounce rate is definitely not a ranking factor. Google doesn't even have bounce rate data on most sites.

            Plus like you said, a bounce is not always a bad thing. It could be a sign of a problem, but in many cases it is not. The example you used is a perfect illustration.

            As for your client's business, there are still a lot of link opportunities out there. Look for local community websites. It doesn't have to be 100% laser focused relevant. Links from local websites certainly help local rankings.

            Look for organizations that are putting on events and see if your client can help sponsor for a reasonable amount in exchange for links and/or print advertising.

            There might be a charity event your client can help sponsor for $50 or something and get a link. I have a client that sponsors an event every year called "A Day in the Park" in their community.

            If there are any local businesses that sell BBQ equipment but do not handle servicing, there may be partnering opportunities.

            Also might want to look for any food trucks that use propane and/or grills. Might be able to work out something with them.
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            • Profile picture of the author Daniel Lezcano
              Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

              Look for organizations that are putting on events and see if your client can help sponsor for a reasonable amount in exchange for links and/or print advertising.

              There might be a charity event your client can help sponsor for $50 or something and get a link. I have a client that sponsors an event every year called "A Day in the Park" in their community.

              If there are any local businesses that sell BBQ equipment but do not handle servicing, there may be partnering opportunities.
              YES! To all of the above!

              Here is a campaign I am currently running. We will create a scholarship fund. We will have a fundraising event to help pay for it, if not most of it. Scholarship can be as low as $500. As it relates to quality back links ... we will end up with very high quality websites pointing at us from this "all follows." Now why go through all the trouble for high quality backlinks? ... and it is indeed a lot of work to get this done "mostly in the researching phase really."

              Firstly its about much more than just the backlinks, but even if that were it; the kind of quality we are talking almost rivals Social Networks like FB, or Youtube "if you could somehow get a follow from them that is, which of course you cant." This is because we will not be creating the scholarship with a University. (that would mean its exclusive and therefore limited in potential link profile quantity. There are other sources that are all inclusive so the exposure is far greater - and those sources have much more rep as they are international "hence as reputable almost as FB or Youtube."

              Other benefits unrelated to this thread are summed up as: Good old fashion Public Relations work and the value therein.
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          • Profile picture of the author savidge4
            Originally Posted by Daniel Lezcano View Post

            Thanks for the thorough explanation.

            I am guessing "Bounce Rates" should be a very small factor. If it were more than a small factor that would be unfair. For instance if you have a high bounce rate ... it could mean your site sucks, or it could mean you are a service based business that requires a phone call, user lands on landing page which is so awesome they are sold, they look at the phone number call, set service appointment and bounce.

            I guess you could maybe set up a way to link a phone # to the landing page that counts any call made as a conversion ... therefore Google wouldnt view it as a bounce ... but I never liked having multiple business phone #'s ... "by link I don't mean if they are on mobile they click the #, that would be much easier to deal with. I mean desktop, laptop, tablet users."

            Any suggestions ...
            Without question bounce should be a small % factor, but if you have what could be a multitude of small % losses in terms of rank signals on your page.. well they would add up quickly.

            As I see it, in terms of bounce... you have to try and imagine what Google considers a bounce. Its just not as easy as coming onto a page and then leaving. There is probably a time factor involved. there is probably analysis of the next move after the bounce, did they come back to the serps and select another link? - did they come back to the serps and refine their search? - did they come back to the serps and search for something totally different?

            All 3 of those would be a "bounce" in the sense of a return but only the first in my book would be considered a negative bounce. The refined search would indicate some amount of education, and a totally different search would indicate solution found.
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      • Profile picture of the author dave_hermansen
        Originally Posted by Daniel Lezcano View Post

        I hear ya ... I work to get such links, but when I say I'm in a niche market trust me I am ... Its a bit tough to find such links ... so I have to try and get any kind of decent links I can get ... Also realize that quality links dont always have to be from industry related sources ... There are numerous other ways to get legit links. Right?

        Oh and ... I did clearly write "If you have 2 pages that all things are equal on except 1 thing, one has PA 30 and the other PA 40 ... PA 40 wins in search results"
        Everybody thinks they are in some niche that is so tight, they cannot possibly get links from a related site that ranks well. If your niche was women's pink left handed sand wedges, related sites would be anything having to do with golf, women's sports, left handed people, sports in general or even just women (and probably even a site about pink things, if such a site exists). There is no such thing as a niche that is impossible to get related links for.
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        • Profile picture of the author Daniel Lezcano
          Originally Posted by dave_hermansen View Post

          Everybody thinks they are in some niche that is so tight, they cannot possibly get links from a related site that ranks well. If your niche was women's pink left handed sand wedges, related sites would be anything having to do with golf, women's sports, left handed people, sports in general or even just women (and probably even a site about pink things, if such a site exists). There is no such thing as a niche that is impossible to get related links for.
          Thanks for your incite.

          I get what your saying. this client does, well Ill just use our #1 keywords: BBQ Grill Repair, BBQ Grill Cleaning, and Propane Tank Exchange. And our Google category would be "Appliance Repair Service." As determined by the fact that all our competitors use that category. This is definitely a niche market as most people have no idea such a service even exists. Furthermore, its a local service which diminishes potential to a small degree.

          Now I get your point about other authorities in a niche, be it a niche, should be starving for good content. So if you take a traditional approach and say Google "best of BBQ Grill Repair blogs 2016" you will mostly get blogs related to BBQ Grill Recipes and such. The ones that are more dialed into repair are coming from the BBQ Grill manufactures websites. Of which it is highly unlikely they will link to us for any reason because we are not valuable enough. They are international and we are local.

          Now I have been reaching out anyway. Here's an example. Been talking to BBQBible.com, the nations #1 BBQ blog ... and they want ridiculous $$$ to allow a guest blog spot. Trust me I do do my due diligence ... lol.

          So your right it may be harder for this business category, but that simply means it takes a bit more determination and persistence. It can be done. Still can you see why any follow link that is coming from a reputable source ... I jump on.

          In my example I use the Chamber of Commerce. Great links but also a vast networking potential as my cities chamber is very active. So it was a good score..
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  • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
    Originally Posted by Daniel Lezcano View Post

    So ... Im not an expert as you so well observed, but PA, the number system made up by Mozz, primary takes into account backlinks, but its the quality back links that have impact. So we have to define quality back links.

    Quality Backlinks = It must be a follow link. Ideally it would be on an industry related site, but does not have to be. Google allows follows from certain authoritative directories because those are edited by humans and maintain rep; hence the difficulty of getting on them.
    PA is influenced by links from Moz's link database only. That is why it is so inaccurate. Their link database is extremely lacking. They do not have the resources to crawl and index the internet like Google does.

    Even Rand said last year you shouldn't use DA or PA to judge links because it is inaccurate too often.

    And Google has nothing to do with allowing follows from directories or not.



    Originally Posted by Daniel Lezcano View Post

    Oh and ... I did clearly write "If you have 2 pages that all things are equal on except 1 thing, one has PA 30 and the other PA 40 ... PA 40 wins in search results"
    And I'm going to write clearly again what David said. The answer is no. Google has no idea what the PA of any page is, so a PA of 40 is not going to help in ANY WAY to outrank another page whose PA happens to be 30.

    I get what you are saying about link quality, but PA is only measuring links in Moz's database, which is probably less than 10% of the links a site has in most cases. Google is looking at ALL of the links the site has.
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    • Profile picture of the author Daniel Lezcano
      Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

      PA is influenced by links from Moz's link database only. That is why it is so inaccurate. Their link database is extremely lacking. They do not have the resources to crawl and index the internet like Google does.

      Even Rand said last year you shouldn't use DA or PA to judge links because it is inaccurate too often.

      And Google has nothing to do with allowing follows from directories or not.

      And I'm going to write clearly again what David said. The answer is no. Google has no idea what the PA of any page is, so a PA of 40 is not going to help in ANY WAY to outrank another page whose PA happens to be 30.

      I get what you are saying about link quality, but PA is only measuring links in Moz's database, which is probably less than 10% of the links a site has in most cases. Google is looking at ALL of the links the site has.
      I see thank you ... that's much more informative. Your right. Its like when you read on Moz backlink check and they talk about lagging behind in their ability to index everything. But I still cant see it as something one should pay no attention too. Its likely to be inaccurate, but Google has nothing to help people know (understandably) - since PR is no longer updated for 3 or 4 years now right? So as a rough estimate PA serves well enough, but its not the only thing to consider by any means. So I see I was placing more importance on it than it deserved, but see no reason to abandon the concept all together.

      Is my perception of it all more reasonable now?
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      • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
        Originally Posted by Daniel Lezcano View Post

        I see thank you ... that's much more informative. Your right. Its like when you read on Moz backlink check and they talk about lagging behind in their ability to index everything. But I still cant see it as something one should pay no attention too. Its likely to be inaccurate, but Google has nothing to help people know (understandably) - since PR is no longer updated for 3 or 4 years now right? So as a rough estimate PA serves well enough, but its not the only thing to consider by any means. So I see I was placing more importance on it than it deserved, but see no reason to abandon the concept all together.

        Is my perception of it all more reasonable now?
        In the context of what you are doing, it is still a waste of time to worry about the PA. You got the link from the Chamber of Commerce site. Move on. Don't waste time worrying if the PA ever moves or not. Whether the PA stays at 1 or moves to 20 will not change the value of the link at all in Google's eyes.
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        • Profile picture of the author Daniel Lezcano
          Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

          In the context of what you are doing, it is still a waste of time to worry about the PA. You got the link from the Chamber of Commerce site. Move on. Don't waste time worrying if the PA ever moves or not. Whether the PA stays at 1 or moves to 20 will not change the value of the link at all in Google's eyes.
          Got it. I asked about what might move PA up in the case of the directory page because I want to learn how everything works. Asking questions like this post ... always leads to more knowledge. I did learn from this thread!
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      • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
        Originally Posted by Daniel Lezcano View Post

        . But I still cant see it as something one should pay no attention too.
        Because you are being logical not emotional. I rarely post anymore here but was alerted to this thread. Like most things in life the truth is somewhat in the middle between the extremists both of which are wrong in their own way.

        Is Moz a third party metric and not Google? Duh of course DA and PA are third party metrics. In a perfect world you would want to look at PR ...but ummm its gone somewhere you will never see it unless you work at Google.

        So does that mean the Moz metrics are meaningless? nope. They are designed to be an approximation and as such can be wildly off or dead on. Majestic and ahrefs are the same. can approximation's be useful? Yep. They are like polls - they can be dead wrong but most of the time have some truth to them

        For example for the "gurus" in here saying its meaning less - lets see what they really know - is a very low PA (under 10) not an indication of weakness in a serp? Let them tell you no then go find a serp where the first page is all low PA and see how easy it ranks top 5 - 9 out of 10 times. Anyone in this thread telling you otherwise is a fool or hasn't ranked many sites.

        Now could there be a strong site on the first page and Moz missed the links? sure but the odds are pretty good that thats not the case for the whole first page. When you cross check that with other metrics and the numbers are low in ahrefs and Majestic as well you've found yourself a good niche because the chances (though still possible) that all the crawlers of all three services missed a gaggle full of powerful domains is pretty low.

        I have never bought a domain even when PR was still around that had very low DA and low TF that was showing in Google as PR5s or 6s. You could cross check it then. Many of us did.

        Where most of these metrics go wrong is when the numbers are higher because they overestimate links or ignore OBL etc.

        As for the hueey that you can just look for relevant links and tell with your eyeballs - thats a load of rot to play guru. See where the emotionalism comes in? Three companies run hundreds of servers that crawl the internet and use an algorythm and they suck but my eyeballs are going to be the mystery sauce to say which pages are ranking valuable to Google?

        oh please such silliness. like relevant sites are always strong ones. Tell Aunt Mildred to write a bunch of posts over the next year on new domains and she will bank by next year and see if next year she doesn't hit your in the head with a frying pan.

        Anyone telling you they can look at pages on the internet - of which they are billions now - and tell you every page that is strong or weak with any reliability is lying through their teeth

        So heres the skinny Use the Metrics - all of them. they are useful in giving you some ideas of the strength. Just be aware of their weaknesses - always check the backlinks and their metrics as well.

        and just ignore those telling you to ignore all metrics. Its life people - work with what you have not chuck it all because its not perfect.
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        • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
          Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

          Because you are being logical not emotional. I rarely post anymore here but was alerted to this thread. Like most things in life the truth is somewhat in the middle between the extremists both of which are wrong in their own way.

          Is Moz a third party metric and not Google? Duh of course DA and PA are third party metrics. In a perfect world you would want to look at PR ...but ummm its gone somewhere you will never see it unless you work at Google.

          So does that mean the Moz metrics are meaningless? nope. They are designed to be an approximation and as such can be wildly off or dead on. Majestic and ahrefs are the same. can approximation's be useful? Yep. They are like polls - they can be dead wrong but most of the time have some truth to them

          For example for the "gurus" in here saying its meaning less - lets see what they really know - is a very low PA (under 10) not an indication of weakness in a serp? Let them tell you no then go find a serp where the first page is all low PA and see how easy it ranks top 5 - 9 out of 10 times. Anyone in this thread telling you otherwise is a fool or hasn't ranked many sites.

          Now could there be a strong site on the first page and Moz missed the links? sure but the odds are pretty good that thats not the case for the whole first page. When you cross check that with other metrics and the numbers are low in ahrefs and Majestic as well you've found yourself a good niche because the chances (though still possible) that all the crawlers of all three services missed a gaggle full of powerful domains is pretty low.

          I have never bought a domain even when PR was still around that had very low DA and low TF that was showing in Google as PR5s or 6s. You could cross check it then. Many of us did.

          Where most of these metrics go wrong is when the numbers are higher because they overestimate links or ignore OBL etc.

          As for the hueey that you can just look for relevant links and tell with your eyeballs - thats a load of rot to play guru. See where the emotionalism comes in? Three companies run hundreds of servers that crawl the internet and use an algorythm and they suck but my eyeballs are going to be the mystery sauce to say which pages are ranking valuable to Google?

          oh please such silliness. like relevant sites are always strong ones. Tell Aunt Mildred to write a bunch of posts over the next year on new domains and she will bank by next year and see if next year she doesn't hit your in the head with a frying pan.

          Anyone telling you they can look at pages on the internet - of which they are billions now - and tell you every page that is strong or weak with any reliability is lying through their teeth

          So heres the skinny Use the Metrics - all of them. they are useful in giving you some ideas of the strength. Just be aware of their weaknesses - always check the backlinks and their metrics as well.

          and just ignore those telling you to ignore all metrics. Its life people - work with what you have not chuck it all because its not perfect.
          Mike, in the context of what was going on in this particular situation, he absolutely should ignore the PA of the page.

          He is doing SEO for a local business. Why the hell wouldn't they want a link from their local Chamber of Commerce, regardless of the PA of the page the link is on? Whether it is a PA of 1 or a PA of 50, he should take the link.

          And he was asking about increasing the PA once he had the link, which is just not worth spending time on and not going to benefit his client.
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          • Profile picture of the author Daniel Lezcano
            Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

            Mike, in the context of what was going on in this particular situation, he absolutely should ignore the PA of the page.

            He is doing SEO for a local business. Why the hell wouldn't they want a link from their local Chamber of Commerce, regardless of the PA of the page the link is on? Whether it is a PA of 1 or a PA of 50, he should take the link.

            And he was asking about increasing the PA once he had the link, which is just not worth spending time on and not going to benefit his client.
            I still would indeed love to know exactly why those PA's go up after a couple months or so though. It doesn't seem to fit into anything I understand at this time. Its not like everyone on the directory is link building the directory page ... there's no way. It seems like its natural some how. Surely, there is useful knowledge to be found in the correct answer.

            Actually, I think I just realized the answer ...

            The chamber markets all their members through various means and methods both on print and digitally. I am sure their process is what leads those PA's up to around 20.

            That must be it - the result is to consistent to be anything other than the Chambers default member marketing process.
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            • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
              Originally Posted by Daniel Lezcano View Post

              I still would indeed love to know exactly why those PA's go up after a couple months or so though. It doesn't seem to fit into anything I understand at this time. Its not like everyone on the directory is link building the directory page ... there's no way. It seems like its natural some how. Surely, there is useful knowledge to be found in the correct answer.

              Actually, I think I just realized the answer ...

              The chamber markets all their members through various means and methods both on print and digitally. I am sure their process is what leads those PA's up to around 20.

              That must be it - the result is to consistent to be anything other than the Chambers default member marketing process.

              It is most likely from the internal links on the website. That is why the result is so "consistent". Those pages have pretty much the same links pointing at them.
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          • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
            Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post


            He is doing SEO for a local business. Why the hell wouldn't they want a link from their local Chamber of Commerce, regardless of the PA of the page the link is on? Whether it is a PA of 1 or a PA of 50, he should take the link.
            Not sure he was ever considering not taking the link. He was however asking all through the thread to understand how he should view DA/PA so the thread is about that now as about anything else. I'm just giving him a more balanced perspective - one thats more in line with the professional SEO world than this thread (or forum) would suggest

            People here just go too overboard in their put down of third party metrics. They have their place and can be used in professional SEO quite well. Yes they are simulations of the real Google world and simulations rarely get it all right with reality but we do learn a great deal from simulations and they do get many things right as well.

            DA is important when you put it with Trustflow and even AHrefs numbers. Gives you a decent coverage together that helps to smooth over the individual metrics weak spots.

            If I see good metrics across the board and do a quick check for spam and find its not an issue I'll feel pretty good about that link. Can I be off sometimes? Sure but I can be way off without the metrics and much likely to be because I don't have three independent "simulations".

            Why do people talk about Moz and DA and Pa more? probably because they are the least guarded with their metrics. Ahrefs and Majestic require paid services except for a few searches (you can get more by using browser plugins for majestic).
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            • Profile picture of the author Daniel Lezcano
              Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

              Not sure he was ever considering not taking the link.
              Oh yea I took them ... made 4 total 1 for home page and 3 others individually leading to our 3 main service pages. (link diversity) Could milk it more but don't imagine it wise = spammy.
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        • Profile picture of the author Daniel Lezcano
          Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

          Because you are being logical not emotional. I rarely post anymore here but was alerted to this thread. Like most things in life the truth is somewhat in the middle between the extremists both of which are wrong in their own way.

          Is Moz a third party metric and not Google? Duh of course DA and PA are third party metrics. In a perfect world you would want to look at PR ...but ummm its gone somewhere you will never see it unless you work at Google.

          So does that mean the Moz metrics are meaningless? nope. They are designed to be an approximation and as such can be wildly off or dead on. Majestic and ahrefs are the same. can approximation's be useful? Yep. They are like polls - they can be dead wrong but most of the time have some truth to them

          For example for the "gurus" in here saying its meaning less - lets see what they really know - is a very low PA (under 10) not an indication of weakness in a serp? Let them tell you no then go find a serp where the first page is all low PA and see how easy it ranks top 5 - 9 out of 10 times. Anyone in this thread telling you otherwise is a fool or hasn't ranked many sites.

          Now could there be a strong site on the first page and Moz missed the links? sure but the odds are pretty good that thats not the case for the whole first page. When you cross check that with other metrics and the numbers are low in ahrefs and Majestic as well you've found yourself a good niche because the chances (though still possible) that all the crawlers of all three services missed a gaggle full of powerful domains is pretty low.

          I have never bought a domain even when PR was still around that had very low DA and low TF that was showing in Google as PR5s or 6s. You could cross check it then. Many of us did.

          Where most of these metrics go wrong is when the numbers are higher because they overestimate links or ignore OBL etc.

          As for the hueey that you can just look for relevant links and tell with your eyeballs - thats a load of rot to play guru. See where the emotionalism comes in? Three companies run hundreds of servers that crawl the internet and use an algorythm and they suck but my eyeballs are going to be the mystery sauce to say which pages are ranking valuable to Google?

          oh please such silliness. like relevant sites are always strong ones. Tell Aunt Mildred to write a bunch of posts over the next year on new domains and she will bank by next year and see if next year she doesn't hit your in the head with a frying pan.

          Anyone telling you they can look at pages on the internet - of which they are billions now - and tell you every page that is strong or weak with any reliability is lying through their teeth

          So heres the skinny Use the Metrics - all of them. they are useful in giving you some ideas of the strength. Just be aware of their weaknesses - always check the backlinks and their metrics as well.

          and just ignore those telling you to ignore all metrics. Its life people - work with what you have not chuck it all because its not perfect.
          I never thought I was to far off the mark at any point off this thread, but this thread, MikeFriedman especially, helped lets say polish my understanding some. So I am grateful for that. I view PA exactly as you do. It's just a kind of base line to work from - not the end all say all point of focus.

          Thanks for your input!
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  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    OP is obviously more worried about a PA/DA score than ranking pages.

    No offense (seriously) but this is exactly how sites like moz suck noobs into their sales funnel. Hats off to Rand because he can sell, even If what he's selling means nothing.
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    • Profile picture of the author Daniel Lezcano
      Originally Posted by yukon View Post

      OP is obviously more worried about a PA/DA score than ranking pages.

      No offense (seriously) but this is exactly how sites like moz suck noobs into their sales funnel. Hats off to Rand because he can sell, even If what he's selling means nothing.
      Page Rank hasn't been updated in almost 4 years I believe? PA and DA may be inaccurate, but its better to go off of then PR. Yes?

      Oh and no offence taken, I am a noob lol However, I would never pay Moz the ridiculous amount of money they ask for. I would just use Brightlocal or something like it that pulls from Moz data just the same for like $20 a month ... lol
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      • Profile picture of the author yukon
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Daniel Lezcano View Post

        Page Rank hasn't been updated in almost 4 years I believe? PA and DA may be inaccurate, but its better to go off of then PR. Yes?

        No.

        If I give you a shovel and tell you to build a bird house, does it help that you have a shovel. No, it doesn't help because it doesn't serve a purpose for the job.

        Forget the irrelevant SEO gimmicks and it's one less thing you have to worry about when trying to rank pages.
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  • Profile picture of the author KarenByerly
    I don't worry about my PA or whatever. It has no connection with ranking or so.
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