Is link spam the only way to create backlinks?

16 years ago

I am not really familiar with the report.

But, not all backlinking is spammy - it just depends how you go about it.

Creating good quality articles is a start - creating an interesting blog perhaps.

Using sites that every other "spam" marketer uses was flagged a long time ago by google imo.

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cashcow

16 years ago

Non spammy backlinking works but leaving the spammy links is faster and easier. It seems most people are looking for the easy way out, thus the popularity of these types of threads and programs.

I'm not making any judgments and am certainly no angel myself.

Lee

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Liam Hamer

16 years ago

I have moved away from profile backlinks in the last couple of months. That's not to say I disagree with them, because I don't - I think they have their place, and will probably use them again at some point. Just because you leave a link in your profile, doesn't mean you can't contribute and add value to the sites

Without giving away any of my secrets(I actually picked this up from another Warrior anyway), it baffles me that most people using these profile links simply drop an anchor text link or two and do nothing else :confused: Even people that are supposedly experts do this. If you are going to leave a link in your profile, give it some context otherwise it won't carry much weight. That's all I'm going to say about that

There are thousands of ways of getting backlinks that aren't spammy - quality articles, quality web 2.0 submissions, quality videos, quality blog comments, quality press releases etc etc etc. Syndication is what can leverage your content and give you a good volume of backlinks, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with it

Thanks
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DavidO

16 years ago

I'm also a bit concerned about link "spam". Although you don't mention it, a lot of social bookmarking is real spammy, especially done in groups where you bookmark each other's pages.

Like many others, I jumped on the bandwagon and used a lot of these methods. But now I've backed off and I'm almost exclusively using "quality" links. What are these? Articles, proper contributions to social sites and blogs, etc.

My total number and rate of links has gone way down but the quality score has surely improved. And the result is that my search positions and traffic have improved recently.

You can't tell me that Google and the others give any credence to profile links on a PR0 page of a mega-page social site!

Quit wasting your time on "easy" (translation: spammy) methods! The ones who build genuine, quality content and links are the ones pulling ahead.

Thanks
2 replies

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Daniel Brock 16 years ago

It depends on the person behind the technique.

For example, you can blog comment with some very useful info to get comments.

You can also use the same technique by the spam version buy using blog commenting software.

Forum posting is another way you can get legit back links.

Same with Social bookmarking if you actually submit real info.

Article marketing is another way.

All of these things take a lot of time, which is why no one talks about doing it like this anymore.
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eashe

16 years ago

Originally Posted by DavidO

I'm also a bit concerned about link "spam". Although you don't mention it, a lot of social bookmarking is real spammy, especially done in groups where you bookmark each other's pages.

Like many others, I jumped on the bandwagon and used a lot of these methods. But now I've backed off and I'm almost exclusively using "quality" links. What are these? Articles, proper contributions to social sites and blogs, etc.

My total number and rate of links has gone way down but the quality score has surely improved. And the result is that my search positions and traffic have improved recently.

You can't tell me that Google and the others give any credence to profile links on a PR0 page of a mega-page social site!

Quit wasting your time on "easy" (translation: spammy) methods! The ones who build genuine, quality content and links are the ones pulling ahead.

I agree with Davido, quit wasting your time on quick ways to get links that have no real value, focus on things with substance that bring real added value for your market. Articles, blog posts, guest blog posting, syndication, etc are real ways to add value to your market and give you a good standing with the engines.

Thanks

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khtm

16 years ago

I prefer Social Bookmarking as a spam-free way to get backlinks. Many of the social bookmarking sites welcome bookmarks from any user and don't have a "spam" policy so don't care too much about the content of the bookmarked URLs.

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1 reply

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dwatrous

16 years ago

Originally Posted by khtm

I prefer Social Bookmarking as a spam-free way to get backlinks. Many of the social bookmarking sites welcome bookmarks from any user and don't have a "spam" policy so don't care too much about the content of the bookmarked URLs.

I wouldn't have thought of social bookmarking as spam. Those sites are all about posting a link and a quick summary, so it makes sense. I was talking mostly about the empty profile links that I've been reading about.

Thanks
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dwatrous 16 years ago

I was up until midnight last night reading that report about backlinking and it got me a bit down. I'm glad to hear others here mention articles, web 2.0 and genuine contributions to communities.

The thing that was disheartening was that the other thread and report suggest that posting many articles lacks link diversity, and so Google doesn't give those links much credence. I'm not sure if that's the case or not.

One thing I can say is that posting a non-contributing profile to a forum many hundreds or thousands of times over sounds like a house of cards to me. It seems like you would always be at risk of losing your position due to admins getting wise to your plot and eliminating your profiles.

It also seems that some of the really big target keywords might just be out of reach to a solo IMer, due to the amount of quality content required to get them.

Great comments so far. Thanks.
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Tom Goodwin

16 years ago

Originally Posted by dwatrous

I wouldn't have thought of social bookmarking as spam. Those sites are all about posting a link and a quick summary, so it makes sense. I was talking mostly about the empty profile links that I've been reading about.

Posting a link in digg to your site on **** berry detox is 100% spam. I can't say one shouldn't do it, you just have to understand what it really is and don't fool yourself.

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Texas_Guns

16 years ago

Yes, there are MANY ways to build real backlinks.

I'm launching a WSO today with 19 videos showing proven
backlinking methods that we used. Those "spammy" links
can/do work - but the key is MODERATION and focusing on
niche-related sites and authority sites in your niche.

I've got a TON of info to share about this - will be doing so
very soon.

One thing that's good to keep in mind is something that Bing.com
recently wrote in their webmaster community:

Quantity vs. Quality. This is a leading misconception among many webmasters. They naturally assume that if one inbound link is good, ten are great, and 47,500 must be fantastic! All things being equal, that might be true, but it is very rare that all things are indeed equal... Instead of making the mistake of focusing on quantity, you'll be far more successful if you focus instead on quality.

A small number of highly relevant, inbound links from sites with solid reputations can do more for you than a ton of junk links. Attempting to boost the quantity of inbound links by artificial means, such as link exchanges, is old-school thinking... Relevance is the word today, and that helps distinguish the quality of links.
--- Bing.com Webmaster Community

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Andyhenry

16 years ago

I feel your sentiment.

In truth - of course you can get massive backlinks without the spammy methods a lot of people use.

It's like most other things in IM, people see this stuff as the magic bullet and don't bother with the normal ways that work just as well.

I've ALWAYS (that's over 10 years in IM) found that I could get the results I want just using press releases, articles and directory submissions.

Now, with that said, I'm a techy at heart and love to see how things work and test them, and there are lots of other ways that work - although I have to say, creating profiles on web2 platforms would not be my first choice for getting links, the ones that get sold to lots of people become almost useless very quickly as the places they target get pissed off with all the crap that comes their way from them. (who wouldn't)

I used to run WSOs showing all the ways you can get links, but with all the crap WSOs selling links these days I've stopped bothering because people don't seem to want the 'proper' ways, just the spammy ones.

Andy

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mahesh2k

16 years ago

I feel the pain of people joining site and dropping links when i got such people on my own forum. They add no value to your site and over that they even want to take some link juice from your site. I mean just imagine scenario where weightloss/MMO link spammers posting their links on science forum ? and with excuse that there is member profile link/signature field for what purpose ? definitely not for non-contributors to community.

There are ways to get links for your site but it takes time. So i prefer to build links slowly instead of spammy way.

Thanks

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Duncan

16 years ago

I learned something new about linking. Having related links on your page that is not affiliate links, can help in increasing your rankings. There is a lot of buzz about one way links now than 2 way. Seems linking to content can improve your rankings.

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Andyhenry

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Duncan

I learned something new about linking. Having related links on your page that is not affiliate links, can help in increasing your rankings. There is a lot of buzz about one way links now than 2 way. Seems linking to content can improve your rankings.

That's always been sensible - both for your visitors and any search engines trying to work out what your site is about.

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TheRichJerksNet

16 years ago

define link spam for me please so I understand what "you" consider to be link spam ... Building backlinks is normal and it is not all spammy..

Please answer the above so I can help you further...

James

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dwatrous

16 years ago

Originally Posted by TheRichJerksNet

define link spam for me please so I understand what "you" consider to be link spam ... Building backlinks is normal and it is not all spammy..

Please answer the above so I can help you further...

James

When I was operating a fitness forum and someone would create a profile and post links to casinos or porn, I considered that spam. I also think it's spam to post one liner comments to blogs, like "Hey, I never thought of it just like that. Thanks", or "Great style of writing, have followed your blog and will definitely read more". They add nothing to the conversation and can only have the purpose of creating a backlink which leeches off of my site.

I don't think it's spam to create a profile on a forum where you intend to make valid contributions to the overall conversation. I'm not even sure your signature has to be on topic with the forum, but you need to contribute to the conversation.

Just think of some guy coming to a party on at your house and he walks in wearing a shirt and jeans with some MLM company on it and a handful of brochures about getting rich in 30 days by inviting two other people to join the program. He either starts making mindless off topic comments by interrupting other conversations so he can then hand them a brochure or he sits int he corner trying not to make too much noise so you don't notice him and just passes them out to folks as they come and go.

How is it different when you go to someone's forum, where they set it up, they pay for it, they chose the topic, they moderate it and you just want to put a few links up.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with MLM, or the guy that wants to promote it, but he should find a more appropriate way of doing it. NOT by crashing your party and making a nuisance of himself.

That's what "I" think spam is.

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TheRichJerksNet

16 years ago

Ok I can see that you are currently a few notches above the fold and that is a good thing.. There are many that will spout out bad advice because the so called experts or self proclaimed gurus say this or that..

Personaly I do not buy ebooks and junk reports as I am the type that does not follow this so-called marketer and that so-called marketer. I do things my way and I go out and I test... I do not care what the latest and greatest ebook says or what other people say about this person is so great or that person is the best marketer..

I do not get all caught up in the hype and fluff... No thanks, I prefer to do things my way.. With all that in mind let me say this ...

You can build quality backlinks by being a productive member in the community... It is that simple and as someone that has done over 3,000,000 bookmarks in less than a year, you can bet I have tested, tested, and tested...

You should focus on articles directories, bookmarking sites, document sharing sites, video sites, social networks, and etc.. But there is a limit here that is actually needed to create quality links..

While you should submit to hundreds of article directories and bookmark sites the same is not true for social networks. You do not need to join every social network on the planet. Join 2 or 3 and focus on them, make helpful post, offer to help, socialize, create a group, become apart of groups, be active and share, listen, and grow..

This same thing goes for video sites and document sharing sites, you do not need to join every single one of them.. But you should focus your attention on a few of them.

All of this you probably already know and it is nothing new.. It is proper marketing after all and you do not need any ebook to tell you that.

Let me discuss a few things that ebook will not though.

Help boost your linkage even greater just by doing a few little simple things. You do not need auto software or a script to do this. These are simple steps that are never discussed but work very effectively.

* You have your facebook account, join the app Su.pr - Drive More Traffic with Your Short URLs! as this app will allow you to post to facebook, stumbleUpon and twitter at the same time. This gives you 3 post in one shot but it can even go further. If you have a friendfeed.com account then you can auto feed friendfeed.com so when post are made using su.pr then your friendfeed is also updated instantly...

The above can save you a great deal of time. There are also other sites you can feed twitter into such as linked-in. So if you add your tweets there then 1 post on su.pr now covers 5 sites all at one..

This is in no way spamming, post informative information and not some stupid sales gimmick.

* You have an account at delicious.com and you bookmark about 50 - 100 links (not all yours mind you as you should mix things up). Now go to your export and export these urls. Go and create an account with mister-wong.com and several other bookmarking sites that allow "imports" (there are many that do). After you create those accounts you just login and import your already bookmarked sites.

Do this at 10 or 20 sites and in a few hours you could have several thousand bookmarks and backlinks. All done very easily and manually without any software needed. You could repeat this process with 4 or 5 accounts if you choose to do so. Just keep in mind you should not create more than you can handle because you should login these sites and participate.

* If you have a clipmarks.com account similar thing can be done as they also allow inmport into seveal places while you are doing your clipmarks..

See all of this done naturally and no spamming and no software needed to do the above. None of the above is spam ...

The bottom line is create quality content, participate and be apart of these communities..

James

Originally Posted by dwatrous

When I was operating a fitness forum and someone would create a profile and post links to casinos or porn, I considered that spam. I also think it's spam to post one liner comments to blogs, like "Hey, I never thought of it just like that. Thanks", or "Great style of writing, have followed your blog and will definitely read more". They add nothing to the conversation and can only have the purpose of creating a backlink which leeches off of my site.

I don't think it's spam to create a profile on a forum where you intend to make valid contributions to the overall conversation. I'm not even sure your signature has to be on topic with the forum, but you need to contribute to the conversation.

Just think of some guy coming to a party on at your house and he walks in wearing a shirt and jeans with some MLM company on it and a handful of brochures about getting rich in 30 days by inviting two other people to join the program. He either starts making mindless off topic comments by interrupting other conversations so he can then hand them a brochure or he sits int he corner trying not to make too much noise so you don't notice him and just passes them out to folks as they come and go.

How is it different when you go to someone's forum, where they set it up, they pay for it, they chose the topic, they moderate it and you just want to put a few links up.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with MLM, or the guy that wants to promote it, but he should find a more appropriate way of doing it. NOT by crashing your party and making a nuisance of himself.

That's what "I" think spam is.

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1 reply

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dwatrous

16 years ago

Originally Posted by TheRichJerksNet

Ok I can see that you are currently a few notches above the fold and that is a good thing.. There are many that will spout out bad advice because the so called experts or self proclaimed gurus say this or that..

Personaly I do not buy ebooks and junk reports as I am the type that does not follow this so-called marketer and that so-called marketer. I do things my way and I go out and I test... I do not care what the latest and greatest ebook says or what other people say about this person is so great or that person is the best marketer..

I do not get all caught up in the hype and fluff... No thanks, I prefer to do things my way.. With all that in mind let me say this ...

You can build quality backlinks by being a productive member in the community... It is that simple and as someone that has done over 3,000,000 bookmarks in less than a year, you can bet I have tested, tested, and tested...

You should focus on articles directories, bookmarking sites, document sharing sites, video sites, social networks, and etc.. But there is a limit here that is actually needed to create quality links..

While you should submit to hundreds of article directories and bookmark sites the same is not true for social networks. You do not need to join every social network on the planet. Join 2 or 3 and focus on them, make helpful post, offer to help, socialize, create a group, become apart of groups, be active and share, listen, and grow..

This same thing goes for video sites and document sharing sites, you do not need to join every single one of them.. But you should focus your attention on a few of them.

All of this you probably already know and it is nothing new.. It is proper marketing after all and you do not need any ebook to tell you that.

Let me discuss a few things that ebook will not though.

Help boost your linkage even greater just by doing a few little simple things. You do not need auto software or a script to do this. These are simple steps that are never discussed but work very effectively.

* You have your facebook account, join the app Su.pr - Drive More Traffic with Your Short URLs! as this app will allow you to post to facebook, stumbleUpon and twitter at the same time. This gives you 3 post in one shot but it can even go further. If you have a friendfeed.com account then you can auto feed friendfeed.com so when post are made using su.pr then your friendfeed is also updated instantly...

The above can save you a great deal of time. There are also other sites you can feed twitter into such as linked-in. So if you add your tweets there then 1 post on su.pr now covers 5 sites all at one..

This is in no way spamming, post informative information and not some stupid sales gimmick.

* You have an account at delicious.com and you bookmark about 50 - 100 links (not all yours mind you as you should mix things up). Now go to your export and export these urls. Go and create an account with mister-wong.com and several other bookmarking sites that allow "imports" (there are many that do). After you create those accounts you just login and import your already bookmarked sites.

Do this at 10 or 20 sites and in a few hours you could have several thousand bookmarks and backlinks. All done very easily and manually without any software needed. You could repeat this process with 4 or 5 accounts if you choose to do so. Just keep in mind you should not create more than you can handle because you should login these sites and participate.

* If you have a clipmarks.com account similar thing can be done as they also allow inmport into seveal places while you are doing your clipmarks..

See all of this done naturally and no spamming and no software needed to do the above. None of the above is spam ...

The bottom line is create quality content, participate and be apart of these communities..

James

Those are some good comments. I use tweetdeck, which covers twitter, facebook, linkedin and myspace (even though I haven't used myspace). It doesn't do stumbleupon though, so I'll look into that. Overall great suggestions. Thanks.

Thanks
1 reply

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TheRichJerksNet

16 years ago

Originally Posted by dwatrous

Those are some good comments. I use tweetdeck, which covers twitter, facebook, linkedin and myspace (even though I haven't used myspace). It doesn't do stumbleupon though, so I'll look into that. Overall great suggestions. Thanks.

I do not use any automation when it comes to twitter, facebook, and etc .. Those networks I participate on personally.. But it is always great to have short-cuts ... I also feed my rss feed into facebook, linked-in, and squidoo... Instant content.

James

Thanks
1 reply

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dwatrous

16 years ago

Originally Posted by TheRichJerksNet

I do not use any automation when it comes to twitter, facebook, and etc .. Those networks I participate on personally.. But it is always great to have short-cuts ... I also feed my rss feed into facebook, linked-in, and squidoo... Instant content.

James

I think we're saying the same thing there. Tweetdeck lets me broadcast a single comment out to all those networks and at the same time lets me interact individually with each.

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RNMKR

16 years ago

linkspam is simply for quantity of backlinks... the quality is usually terrible...

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dwatrous 16 years ago

Originally Posted by J.Cox

linkspam is simply for quantity of backlinks... the quality is usually terrible...

And I can see the appeal in it. In some ways it seems easier to just leech some links off of a bunch of forums, rather than take the time to make worthwhile contributions. It also allows for niche irrelevant sites to "host" your links.

But in the end, the amount of work it takes to find the forum sites, create your fake profiles, track them to see if they don't get caught by an admin/moderator, isn't small. That's still a lot of work.

I think maybe the most appealing part of it is that you can outsource that type of work for cheap, but you can't outsource quality content and conversation for cheap.
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actionplanbiz

16 years ago

i like to take my time and leave some content whenever i drop links. increase the probability of it staying there. why put garbage on someone elses website?

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jasonmorgan

16 years ago

It is spam.

I use many of these techniques myself but I don't try to pretend it's something it isn't.

The problem is, when done right, these methods work which is why they are so popular.

It's a fast and easy way to build up a site and make money which is a great motivator to switch to the dark side of internet marketing.

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warrior49

16 years ago

pretty well if you are link building you are spamming in some way in my opinion. The trick is to try and contribute to where you are building the link without blatantly spamming and not contributing any useful comment.

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Mike Anthony

16 years ago

This thread is more than a little misleading. It simple assumes that everyone uses these backlinks in the same way - drop and leave. Truth is many people write articles, create blogs and post on forums at these sites so the question is not what else can you do but how can you do this in a way that isn't spam.

Sorry this might stir the pot but I've read some ezine article sites and they can be as spammy as an about me section of a backlink profile. Maybe even more because you go to those articles expecting to read substance and all you get is general gibberish and an invitation to visit the author's site at the end.

So how is article marketing so different? or forum marketing? I read some post here that have far more expertise than any article I have seen anywhere else (particulalry on marketing), How is article marketing with a profile link at the end any better than a signature link at the end of a forum post? again its how you use the link strategy not the strategy itself that is spammy.

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Tom Goodwin

16 years ago

I might be different than most of the folks here, but unless you have $$$$ for advertising and whatnot, virtually all link building is spam to some extent.

IMHO, relating to commercial sites of yours:

Socialbookmarking --> spam
Submitting RSS feeds through RSS submitters --> spam
Submitting a single article to EZA, hoping for the backlink -->probably spam
Submitting an article through a mass article submitter --> definitely spam
Submitting videos hoping to get traffic and/or backlinks --> spam
Adding your signature on forums (like here at warriorforum) --> spam

IMHO, it confounds me up when people are OK with submitting a spun article to 400 sites, but have an issue with putting a backlink in a forum profile, but to each their own.

Tom

Originally Posted by dwatrous

I've been following this thread on the forum:
http://www.warriorforum.com/adsense-...ghlight=senuke

I bought his report since everyone else seemed so excited about it. I was surprised to find that the bulk of his tactics had to do with what seems like link spam to me. I had a forum on one of my sites and hated having to check each day to see what j$#k had created a bogus account just for the links so I could delete it. I actually had to delete an entire forum once because someone hacked it and posted a bunch of absolute garbage in there, linking to porn pills and casinos.

Now I'm not trying to take the moral high road here, and I think that Terry's suggestions are a little more conservative in terms of overall impact on each forum where he posts, but it still seems really leechy to me.

The thing that SURPRISED me most is that everyone on that thread (almost 900 replies so far) seems to think that he's nailed it right on the head.

Isn't there any way to build backlinks that work without the sneaky spam tactics?

That thread was a little congested, so I started this one. If there's an "other" side of the warrior forum that has found less spamy ways of creating backlinks, please let me know.

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Mike Anthony

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Tom Goodwin

IMHO, it confounds me up when people are OK with submitting a spun article to 400 sites, but have an issue with putting a backlink in a forum profile, but to each their own.

Tom

Sometimes one sentence just nails it.

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Shoaib

16 years ago

Many valid points in this thread. I guess it depends on your definition of SPAM (as we can see, some consider article marketing spam and others do not), which can be argued all day long.

The problem is... in the good old days of the internet, you could build backlinks, or exchange links, with almost any website. Even sites with huge traffic would link to the little guys. I experienced just that when I started a new site or two and got more traffic than I could handle just because of one front-page link on a top site in the industry -- all because I was acquainted with the guy who ran it through some forums and he was aware that I was launching that site. Any website I started around that time (there were several), they all got linked-to from very high-traffic sites, without any or much effort on my part, and generating traffic wasn't a problem.

If my 13 year old self wanted to be #1 on YAHOO or EXCITE or whatever the main "search engines" were that time, for HOLLYWOOD... all I would have to do is stuff my meta tags with:

Code:

"HOLLYWOOD, HOLLYWOOD, HOLLYWOOD, HOLLYWOOD, HOLLYWOOD, HOLLYWOOD, HOLLYWOOD, HOLLYWOOD, HOLLYWOOD, HOLLYWOOD, HOLLYWOOD, HOLLYWOOD, HOLLYWOOD, HOLLYWOOD"

.. and a few days later I would be number one for HOLLYWOOD, on all the major search engines, getting all the traffic, and calling my account manager at VALUECLICK because .25 cents per click on banner ads just wasn't gonna cut it anymore, pay me 50 cents/click or I'm going to clickagents. And guess what? they paid me what I wanted.

You would also have so many random webmasters e-mailing you and asking if they could link to you, or letting you know that they linked to your site, or simply asking to exchange links. This is circa mid-late-ish 90's.

The fact is it doesn't work like that these days. After this whole backlinkarama and Google ranking shmankings discoveries etc etc etc, when people know (or think they know) that backlinks count a good deal towards ranking, and all this talk about LINK JUICE and PASSING RANK and "noo I'm not gonna add one more link to my page it'll mess up the PR!!!" and bla bla bla..

...what are the little guys and even established internet marketers to do? People have just gotten really "stingy" when it comes to linking to other websites. Even if they do link, many are made NOFOLLOW, which is again because of the whole drama with link juice and pagerank etc.

So, the average webmasters mostly go about building backlinks via any of the above mentioned methods. Some consider it spam, some do not.

To answer the main question asked by the OP:

Originally Posted by dwatrous

Isn't there any way to build backlinks that work without the sneaky spam tactics?

What it comes down to is: Yes, it is possible to get thousands of backlinks without spamming. How? Start some sort of a website or service that has never been seen or heard of on the internet, such as when Google started, or when YouTube, MySpace, FaceBook, and others started. Do that and the whole world will be linking to you like there's no tomorrow! You will be bought out by the Powers That Be for one hundred thousand billion zillion dollars in just a matter of weeks or months.

Now, if you're not able to do that, and want to get backlinks, the bulk of those backlinks are going to come from what some call "SPAM".

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Mike Anthony 16 years ago

Originally Posted by Shoaib

Now, if you're not able to do that, and want to get backlinks, the bulk of those backlinks are going to come from what some call "SPAM".

Great post and really sums it up. In the old days the internet was a colloborative process. People just loved finding and linking to new sites. Its become big business and getting a backlink from a webmaster is hit and miss and mostly miss. Now you can get backlinks easily if you have a fairly robust marketing machine with thousands or even millions to spend.
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mrizos

16 years ago

yeah, write stuff worth linking to...

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InternetMarketingIQ

16 years ago

Link spammers are just spinning their wheels so it doesn't matter. Let them waste their time.

Links are a small part of ranking... and self made links just leave a footprint.

Build Relationships. Write content people will want to link to.

That is how the game is won. And it involves QUALITY not QUANTITY.

Most people are not very good at doing much more than copying.

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GeorgR.

16 years ago

"link spam" == what any other "SEO" does.

Sorry, this includes any kind of "profiles" like angela, pauls, social bookmarking and whatever links on UNRELATED pages and blogs. (Which 99% of all link builders will offer you)

The SEOs from yesterday still look at PR mainly.

I agree 100% that relevancy is all what it is about.

Better: Blogs, Forums HIGHLY RELEVANT to your site. Web2.0 *possible* if its on a relevant sub-network, like a Squidoo lens in the weight-loss section etc..

Article directories, same here. Although i think that Google doesnt value article directories and web2.0 properties that high anymore.

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Tom Goodwin

16 years ago

Originally Posted by ProductCreator

... because I've little doubt that Google will slam those existing sites that do, some day.

.

Nonsense. If Google could penalize you for *incoming* links, how how would it be just to link spam all of your competitor's sites so that you are #1? You need to worry about the outgoing links from your site, not the incoming.

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Tom Goodwin

16 years ago

Originally Posted by ProductCreator

So what is the most white hat method left? I think article distribution incl. spinning.

Pot calling the kettle black here I think. If forum profiles is grey hat, so is mass article spinning.

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Tom Goodwin

16 years ago

Originally Posted by ProductCreator

Why? I can spin articles that are perfectly readable and give value. The only reason I would spin has nothing to do with dupe content (which does not exist) but solely to increase adoption of my articles.

The blogs and directories that the articles get posted to are 100% white hat.

This doesn't compare with creating forum accounts just to leave a (usually) unrelated link and barely contributing (if at all) to the forum.

I don't see the comparison. One takes value, the other gives it.

A spun article is a junk article. This has nothing to do with "readability" either. It is the same re-hashed crap. Obviously we disagree on this point, but I am firm in that position. You are then submitting the junk article for links. IMHO, that is the epitomy of taking value without giving the same in return. People become territorial around here about their "method" of getting backlinks, and sometimes fail to see the similarities between their methods and others they might look down upon.

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TheRichJerksNet

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Tom Goodwin

A spun article is a junk article. This has nothing to do with "readability" either. It is the same re-hashed crap. Obviously we disagree on this point, but I am firm in that position. You are then submitting the junk article for links. IMHO, that is the epitomy of taking value without giving the same in return. People become territorial around here about their "method" of getting backlinks, and sometimes fail to see the similarities between their methods and others they might look down upon.

Sorry Tom .. I have proven this to be false time and time again ..

Not all spun articles are junk.. Sorry.. Fact is also many large media companies spin their content and have been doing so way long before the internet was released in the 60's..

Newspapers, news, magazines, many other places spin content and it is perfectly normal and not junk.

What is junk is spinning a article by word for word with some junk spinner that replaces words with a pre-set database.. Use the right tool and use it properly you do not have this issue..

James

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cormierl20 16 years ago

in my opinion, SEOs should learn new ways of getting backlinks for their sites without doing it spam style..LOL..if youve got bright new ideas on how to do so just contact me! thanks!
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Mike Anthony 16 years ago

Originally Posted by TheRichJerksNet

Sorry Tom .. I have proven this to be false time and time again ..

Yes but the point is that is in HOW you do the articles because there is no doubt about what Tom states. If you spin it to get multiple links we can all call that spamming too. You can compare it to news sites all you want. They may write several articles on a piece but its because its newsworthy. They aren't doing it so that another site will give them a backlink.

Article marketing is no less spammy than submitting an "about me" section on a profile page. In fact I have to laugh a little whenever I see threads like this. the modern profile feature has blogging, commenting and full blown article writing capabilities. Too many people have sold backlink packages consisting of nothing more than forum signature pages.

I come across sites every day that can and will eventually be much closer to blog networks and article directories and you access all of that through the profile feature.
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Tom Goodwin

16 years ago

Originally Posted by TheRichJerksNet

Sorry Tom .. I have proven this to be false time and time again ..

Not all spun articles are junk.. Sorry.. Fact is also many large media companies spin their content and have been doing so way long before the internet was released in the 60's..

Newspapers, news, magazines, many other places spin content and it is perfectly normal and not junk.

What is junk is spinning a article by word for word with some junk spinner that replaces words with a pre-set database.. Use the right tool and use it properly you do not have this issue..

James

Gotta disagree James. I'm not arguing readability here. Just because something is readable doesn't make it not junk. What 99.999999999999999999999999999999999999% of IM folks do in terms of spinning articles is junk. What Time Warner does, probably not junk.

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TheRichJerksNet

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Tom Goodwin

Gotta disagree James. I'm not arguing readability here. Just because something is readable doesn't make it not junk. What 99.999999999999999999999999999999999999% of IM folks do in terms of spinning articles is junk. What Time Warner does, probably not junk.

As I said using the proper tool (that means a human controlled spinner) and no I do not mean human spinner or whatever junk website that produces articles that all read the same ..

A proper tool being used properly will produce 50 articles that are 80%+ in uniqueness and do not all read the same.. The reason why is the writer controls it all and not some system with a pre-set database.

I am not talking about readability either, I am talking properly spun content all together.. Uniqueness, readability, quality, and etc ...

Not all spinners are the same ..

James

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thebarksmeow

16 years ago

I just don't get it. We are online salesmen. That's all. We do what we have to do to make money and support our lives/families. Do I "spam"? Yes. Do I leave quality content sometimes? Yes. My job is to sell, bottom line. Just like someone earlier in the thread said about the "do not call" list. It's the same thing. If I leave a link in my profile and they delete it from the forum. I remove that site from my list. That's their "house" and I respect that. There isn't any hard feelings. I won't create a profile there any more. It's that simple. Do you get this upset when you get junk mail in your mailbox? If you don't want it, throw it away. Just because you post quality content doesn't mean "Ok, you contributed to my site. You are welcome to spam now". This is all a part of the job.

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LinkBuildingRobot

16 years ago

I've never had a problem with links from my company. See signature.

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TheRichJerksNet 16 years ago

Originally Posted by LinkBuildingRobot

I've never had a problem with links from my company. See signature.

Exactly what people are talking about in this thread "spam" .. you just did that .. Maybe read the rules before doing any self promotion ..

Just a thought..

James
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Eleen Holloway

16 years ago

Back linking is an essential feature to get popularity for your websites. There are several ways to get popularity like quality articles, quality web 2.0 submissions, quality videos, quality blog comments, quality press releases etc. These are the ways through you get quality back link.
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ShanghaiTours

16 years ago

There are also some non-spammy ways, but yeah just as some has mentioned, they are slower and harder.

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Linus_Ruzicka 16 years ago

Interesting topic in it's relation in time to something I have been working on recently.
I just did 2 blog posts (part 1 and part 2) talking about Part 1 - creating backlinks and how do you use them, and in part 2 Creating quality backlinks and a cool tool I use - not to auto comment, but to find the right blogs to comment on (with Google rankings), I talked about how to make them quality backlinks by posting them on blogs with a high Google page rank.

You can read the second post on how I am creating quality backlinks (quality because of the page they sit on) and doing it in a VERY non-spammy, non-pitchy method.

The tool i use to help find quality blogs with a high Google rank to comment on is Comment Hut. Another one I heard about recently is Comment Kahuna - but I have NOT used that one yet. Only Comment Hut.

THe second blog post I created goes into more detail of why this is a non-spammy method.

As a new member here in the forum, I can't post direct links, but if you just look for my blog Linus Ruzicka .com you can find them
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dwatrous

16 years ago

Holy cow, you leave for a day and look what happens.

In some ways these ideas are helpful because there are some persuasive arguments on each side. For that same reason I'm not sure it's answering my question about what link spam is and if it's the only way to get backlinks.

The conclusion I've been drawing for myself based on everything I've read on backlinks so far is that I have to feel OK with it. At the end of the day I have to answer to myself about whether or not I've added value to my niche.

That's the crux of it for me. "Did I add value with what I just put somewhere on the internet?"

While "value" appears to mean different things to different people, I know what it means to me, so this thread has been very useful.

Thanks for all the replies (and banter).

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jazbo

16 years ago

Could you argue that adding a "spammy" link somewhere to get your "quality" content to more people through the SERPs, is adding value? Ultimately you are trying to boost what you perceive as valuable content?

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dwatrous

16 years ago

Originally Posted by jazbo

Could you argue that adding a "spammy" link somewhere to get your "quality" content to more people through the SERPs, is adding value? Ultimately you are trying to boost what you perceive as valuable content?

That may not be an easy question to answer. If you think it's valuable, but your target audience doesn't thinks it's valuable enough to link to, then is it really?

Then there's the question of the market where the target audience doesn't actually have access to any link building mechanism. If the market you're targeting doesn't have a high proportion of customers/partners that could naturally generate links then the Google approach fails those searchers and every IMer in that market must use "unnatural means" to get links.

Even in that case, I think that writing informative articles, blogs, etc. for the links is the biggest value add. Certainly more so than a stuffed forum profile.

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Mike Anthony

16 years ago

Originally Posted by dwatrous

That may not be an easy question to answer. If you think it's valuable, but your target audience doesn't thinks it's valuable enough to link to, then is it really?

Your target market doesn't know you exist until you promote the site so their failure to link to you says nothing about your content not being valuable. Guaranteed within the next few months you will come across sites you find valuable but just found even though they have been around for years.

then the Google approach fails those searchers and every IMer in that market must use "unnatural means" to get links.

What is natural or unnatural? really. Its often talked about but no one defines it in todays web experience. It is no longer "natural" for a webmaster to see a site and say " Hey I think I will link to it" - its now totally "unnatural" as in uncommon. Webmasters link to stories and news that some site breaks perhaps but then you have to be in a position to break news. . Link exchanges are unnatural, writing articles and putting links at the end of it is unnatural. To you signatures on forums are unnatural, filling out an "about me" section is supposedly unnatural (although some sites give you places to specifically leave links AND anchor text and filling it out would normally be considered natural).

Meanwhile I can't think of anything more unnatural to the search experience than those results to the side that Google calls adwords which defies the entire purpose for sorting content by virtue of relevance by making it about whoever pays the most for the spot.

and how more spammy can you get than dropping indescriminate text ads on a page of content that may have very little to offer the reader. What do they call that again? oh

Adsense. The most spammy kind of ads I have ever seen on the Net.

Even in that case, I think that writing informative articles, blogs, etc. for the links is the biggest value add. Certainly more so than a stuffed forum profile.

Your stuck on forum profiles. alleged link spam goes way beyond forums and actually embraces profile section that allow for informative articles and blogs..

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FlashDriveDT

16 years ago

You do need backlinks to get ahead - thats a fact. Now the less spammy you do it the more you get ahead actually. So no worries. When you set up a profile with some description or bio and place one backlink and then take the time to contribute somewhere on that site you not only leave a breadcrumb so google can index that profile with its link but youre also leaving with a good conscience. Same goes for posting in a forum where you're genuinely allowed to have a backlink in your signature.

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garyt

16 years ago

I think Terry's method is not spam although a bit sneeky. The other ways like article marketing , social bookmarking, social networking, video, viral marketing work too. It is just a matter of throwing in the mix

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jasonmorgan

16 years ago

I think Terry's method is not spam although a bit sneeky.

so you don't mind if I start leaving comments on your blog with links to my sites? NICE!

btw... I'm thinking about promoting e cigarettes and the fleshlight, hope linking to these products isn't a problem.

also... fix your damn captcha, I've got sites that need new links.

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halfpoint 16 years ago

Originally Posted by jasonmorgan

so you don't mind if I start leaving comments on your blog with links to my sites? NICE!

Err, Terry's method isn't doing that at all.

We register at sites that allow people to create profiles. We then leave a link in said profile, again, in accordance with what the sites in question allow us to do.

Not only is it not spam, it's not even against the sites terms of service.

Spam is sending unsolicited commercial messages. It's definitely not the same thing.
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jasonmorgan

16 years ago

Err, Terry's method isn't doing that at all.

We register at sites that allow people to create profiles. We then leave a link in said profile, again, in accordance with what the sites in question allow us to do.

Not only is it not spam, it's not even against the sites terms of service.

Spam is sending unsolicited commercial messages. It's definitely not the same thing.

you need to reread that thread and take a closer look at his backlinks and the methods used.

yes... he uses automated tools to spam blogs. I've seen his generic spam comments myself when I'm checking up on my own generic spam comments.

If you read between the lines, the one of the big conclusion of the whole thread is 'spam works' and 'automation tools make it easy'

and anybody trying to defend profile backlinks as not being spam is just as delusional as the black hat spam queen herself.

*edit... maybe spam is the wrong word... how about self promoting crap links... or pissing in the internet pool for fun and profit.

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halfpoint

16 years ago

Originally Posted by jasonmorgan

and anybody trying to defend profile backlinks as not being spam is just as delusional as the black hat spam queen herself.

*edit... maybe spam is the wrong word... how about self promoting crap links... or pissing in the internet pool for fun and profit.

Yes, spam was the wrong word. Spam is illegal, creating profiles for links is not.

So what if they're self promoting?

Do you submit articles to article directories? What for?

How about using social bookmarking sites? What for?

The fact is, as internet marketers, just about every link we leave anywhere is self promoting.

You're not going to go very far in this game without "self promoting" links.

In addition, leaving automated comments on a blog is not spam.

If you leave a stupid one liner comment saying, "nice post" and your name is hyperlinked, that is not spam. Sure, it's a useless, worthless comment but it's still not spam.

If, however, you left a comment saying, "Click this link and buy viagra right now!!" or anything commercial like that, then yes, that is spam.

I guess I'm just sick of everyone throwing the term "spam" around so loosely.

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jasonmorgan

16 years ago

gotcha

I'm not trashing these methods. I use them everyday and other devious methods.

While these methods may not technically be 'spam', that doesn't mean they are right.

Joining a site for the sole purpose of creating a profile to add backlinks... and doing this on hundreds or thousands of sites... this is not white hat and it's not a very moral or ethical means of doing business. Not technically spam, but we don't have a better term for this yet.

It's a loophole in the system that is being abused for our own purposes... to boost our sites so we make money.

The same goes for blog commenting and automation. Anybody who thinks that using an automation tool to leave generic comments on thousands of blogs for the sole purpose of creating backlinks is not a means of (insert word to replace spamming here) is living in denial. Anybody with common sense should know that it's wrong.

If any of these methods were acceptable then we wouldn't have profile sites making profiles viewable to members only or in some cases refusing new memberships. Profiles wouldn't be deleted when they are caught. Bloggers wouldn't have to moderate all of their comments or use captchas. There would be no need for akismet.

I have emails and websites on spammer lists for using these methods so somebody thinks it's spamming... AngelaE has a whole crap-load of emails on the same lists, guess somebody thinks she is a spammer too.

so, people need to get of their SEO moral high ground and stop pretending that what they are doing isn't a form of spamming (or whatever you want to call it).

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halfpoint

16 years ago

Originally Posted by jasonmorgan

Joining a site for the sole purpose of creating a profile to add backlinks... and doing this on hundreds or thousands of sites... this is not white hat and it's not a very moral or ethical means of doing business. Not technically spam, but we don't have a better term for this yet.

White hat is a very subjective term. Technically, anything you do to try and game the search engines is black hat. Again, using social bookmarking sites for backlinks is "black hat".

Originally Posted by jasonmorgan

If any of these methods were acceptable then we wouldn't have profile sites making profiles viewable to members only or in some cases refusing new memberships. Profiles wouldn't be deleted when they are caught. Bloggers wouldn't have to moderate all of their comments or use captchas. There would be no need for akismet.

Ah, yeah they would, for real spam. Like the viagra example I used in my last post, that is the the reason for them.

As for profiles getting deleted and Angela's name ended up on spam lists, that's because all of those webmasters have no idea why these profiles are being created.

If I ran a forum and knew nothing about SEO then I would also assume that anyone signing up and leaving links in their profile has the intentions of starting threads and spamming my forum. However, this is simply not the case.

In fact, when I create a profile, my intentions are the exact opposite of a spammer. An ideal situation for me is that NOBODY sees my profile. I don't want any human eyes on my profiles.

The moderators are the only people who ever see these profiles, anyway. I mean, how many people do you know who trawl through forum member lists for no reason? 99.9% of the members of each these forums have no idea my profiles exist.

The sad truth is that as long as Google rankings depend on links there is going to be people creating self serving links at all costs.

When I first started out I decided that I wanted to be squeaky clean and not do anything that might be considered grey/black hat, however, shortly after I realised that if I'm not going to do it then I'm already going to be way behind my competitors.

So long as I'm not breaking any laws or sabotaging anyones business, I'll go after links in just about any means possible.

I'm sure there are a few exceptions to this rule, however, I can't think of any right now.

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Mike Anthony

16 years ago

Originally Posted by jasonmorgan

gotcha

I'm not trashing these methods. I use them everyday and other devious methods.

LOL. So you call it unethical and immoral but you are doing it? Whose worse those that have a difference of opinion or you who believes its unethical but still does it?

While these methods may not technically be 'spam', that doesn't mean they are right....... Not technically spam, but we don't have a better term for this yet.

Well look heres the deal both you and dwatrous clearly want to stick your head in the sand and make blanket across the board statements. You can argue spam until the cows comes home. If I ask someone to email me and they do - or if I subscribe and they email me - I can cry about it but it won' t make it spam.

Now you have a point with sites the do NOT want you to place business links but what you both want to do is pigeon whole ALL of profile backlinking into your square peg.

You ignore or are ignorant of the fact that some sites ask for your website and ask for your company name and flat out CREATE the backlink for you through their own software. Some give you POINTS for doing so..

You ignore or are ignorant of the fact that MANY sites allow you blogs, articles and "about me" sections that give you ALL the facilities of article directories going way beyond the forum profile that dwatrous seems intent on sticking to. MANY "about me" sections come with web editors specifically including link options in that section.

You ignore or are ignorant of the fact that even moderated sites allow backlinks. Thats right I get approved routinely for leaving my links because I leave enough for the admin to see I respect his/her site. ALl moderated sites ? Of course not. but it underlines a key point that discussions like this always brings up -

You do not speak for all webmasters you only think you do. Many sites have no problem whatsoever with the links in fact some companies even want raw numbers for financing and crdibility issues.

Bottom line if a site tells people they can leave their link on their site and someone does then whine, cry foul moralize all you want - It isn't Spam as long as you are operating under the rules of the board.

Now having said all that I will say one thing. If you are using a completely automated system and especially one that is breaking a site's Captcha then sorry - you ARE spamming. Your automated system has no chance of being a participating member and you don't even know where you have left your links you've just fed it into a program.

The very fact that you are using a program or service to break a Captcha is violating the sites rules

It's a loophole in the system that is being abused for our own purposes... to boost our sites so we make money.

Rarely is it a loophole. I dont' expect you to think like a programmer but features have to be coded in. the coding of a profile section is not a loophole its deliberate and lets use forums as an example and we'll see that the programmers again program the option to turn off features or limit who can use them.

The same goes for blog commenting and automation. Anybody who thinks that using an automation tool to leave generic comments on thousands of blogs for the sole purpose of creating backlinks is not

Totally agree on that which is why I do not believe in and do not incorporate a totally automated system but decided the benefits of human participation on the sites I find outweigh the minute or two it takes to fillout a profile with my semi automated system (the idea being that if you have more time to participate it encourages it). Total automation is spam.

Profiles wouldn't be deleted when they are caught.

All assuming that they are deleted which they are not. IN the case of Angela's links Webmastes are really responding ot the volume that hits their sites in a short time. As for who reports what as soam - People get reported for spamming even from people who subscribed to their list. That whole paragraph makes no point.

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jasonmorgan

16 years ago

Ah, yeah they would, for real spam. Like the viagra example I used in my last post, that is the the reason for them.

what is the difference between creating a profile or leaving a comment with a link to a viagra site or a movie poster site? It's the same thing. Why is that real spam but links to Florida vacation homes aren't?

As for profiles getting deleted and Angela's name ended up on spam lists, that's because all of those webmasters have no idea why these profiles are being created.

If I ran a forum and knew nothing about SEO then I would also assume that anyone signing up and leaving links in their profile has the intentions of starting threads and spamming my forum. However, this is simply not the case.

That is BS... you're making up excuses now. Most of those webmasters are not idiots and they know what is happening. Some care while others don't.

In fact, when I create a profile, my intentions are the exact opposite of a spammer. An ideal situation for me is that NOBODY sees my profile. I don't want any human eyes on my profiles.

So long as I'm not breaking any laws or sabotaging anyones business, I'll go after links in just about any means possible.

I agree with you on both of these points.

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halfpoint

16 years ago

Originally Posted by jasonmorgan

what is the difference between creating a profile or leaving a comment with a link to a viagra site or a movie poster site? It's the same thing. Why is that real spam but links to Florida vacation homes aren't?

Links to Florida vacation homes can be spam, if the comment is commercial. Again, "Click here to read more about Florida vacation homes" is spam.

"good post" with your name hyperlinked to your Florida vacation homes site, is not.

Originally Posted by jasonmorgan

That is BS... you're making up excuses now. Most of those webmasters are not idiots and they know what is happening. Some care while others don't.

I never said they were idiots. It's fair to assume that a large amount of these webmasters have no idea about SEO. Particularly in very small niche related forums.

Some may know what is happening, but many do not. Just about every forum has people registering with links in their signature and then spamming the **** out of the forum through posting replies to threads and starting new threads.

Now, because of this, any time anyone signs up to their forum with a link in their signature that isn't related to the sites content, they are obviously going to assume that it's just another spammer there to make their life a misery, and you can't blame them for that.

Many of these forum owners do not understand our intentions. If they did I'm sure many of them would still delete profiles, however, many of them wouldn't.

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jasonmorgan

16 years ago

oh well, we will just have to agree to disagree :confused:

no more fun discussions on the ethics of SEO for me today.

I need to get my chinese sweat-shop knocking out 300 new profiles.

Then run through a scrapebox list and hit up the high PR pages that have captchas.

It's all work and no play.

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dwatrous

16 years ago

After reading through the stuff that Pat and Jason posted, I just have to say that whether you call it spam or not, there are some things that just work out to be inconsiderate.

Pat compares forum profiles to articles, but IT'S SO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. In the first place, the article site is a public forum. They built it for people to publish content and have in mind that you'll leave links in the resource box. That's what they give you in exchange for the content. There's a value exchange. You add content to their site and you get a link back

When someone sets up a forum for a topic of their choosing, that's a much different thing. They want it to be a vehicle for discussion. If you go in and take some links and try to "fly under the radar" as in Terry's thread, there is no value exchange. You provide nothing to them, but you do try to take value from them.

I don't care if you want to call it spam or something else. I'm not hung up on the term, but most people refer to spam as unwanted commercial messaging. On an article website, or a press release site, or other public forum, the value exchange has been established and is understood. For a forum or a blog, it's a bit different. If you're not willing to give any value back, you shouldn't sneakily take any from them.

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rockstar99

16 years ago

Good backlinks are generated by GOOD CONTENT. Whether its yours or someone elses. It all depends on your definition of spamming i guess.

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one800pools

16 years ago

Let's be real in our thoughts and assumptions of what is black, gray, white hat or spam when it comes to link building really is. IMHO there is really no such thing as white hat link building as natural back linking really entails building sites with quality content and over time other sites wanting to link to you. That's how I think the big SE sees that. Spamming is when no type of contribution is given.

I was around and build my first websites back in 1996. Then it was easier as stated here in this thread as you could basically submit your website to search engine directories, get listed and be towards the top of the serps. When I started back then, there were only 33,000 commercial sites, period. And at that time it was way easy to get links from other big sites. We did it many times.. I was in auto parts industry at that time and I got a link from Ford.

And lets face it, we are all self promoters and salesman, and we have to be right? We are in business for ourselves and have to make profit to survive. We all leave links in our signatures here, but most of us also contribute.

In that respect, I don't find it wrong to submit articles with a resource box linked back to you, if you make some kind of contribution to what topic you are writing about.

Bookmark sites are all about bookmarking pages you like, yours or not. They were designed to socially share websites, right. Sharing articles, news stories, products or services someone may like. Nailing one 24 hours a day with every page of your site is too much and not right IMO, but bookmarking some of the category pages to share is not.

What were website directories created for? To bookmark your website for someone else's reference. I have submitted my site to many web directories as I feel they are the yellow pages of the internet.

Forum and blog comment links.. same thoughts here.. its OK to leave your link as long as you can contribute something. Some people contribute more than others, but I think the important point is to just contribute.

Just a few of my thoughts....

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roderickmurphy11

Banned 16 years ago

[DELETED]

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dwatrous

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

You ignore or are ignorant of the fact that some sites ask for your website and ask for your company name and flat out CREATE the backlink for you through their own software. Some give you POINTS for doing so..

I'm sure I'm ignorant to a great many things. But you might have missed that in my last comment I flat out say that some sites are designed to give you backlinks. If you go back and read that again you'll see I talk about the value exchange.

I had to police a forum from people that left viagra, porn and all types of other nasty links in profiles and elsewhere on my forum. It was a G rated fitness forum. Whatever you call it, it's inconsiderate.

Oh well. Who cares right? We might just have to agree to disagree.

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Mike Anthony

16 years ago

Originally Posted by dwatrous

I'm sure I'm ignorant to a great many things. But you might have missed that in my last comment I flat out say that some sites are designed to give you backlinks. If you go back and read that again you'll see I talk about the value exchange.

I saw that but then I see you go right back to making blanket claims again.

I had to police a forum from people that left viagra, porn and all types of other nasty links in profiles and elsewhere on my forum. It was a G rated fitness forum.

No you didn't have to police it you just needed to create a forum that dictated your wishes. Most of the major forums software allows you to set conditions for leaving signatures, opening profiles etc. Sorry but some forum web masters are just lazy and their laziness sends a mixed message to spammers. Don't want indiscriminate profile links then close that feature or set it up to be viewable only when people login, or only for people with a certain amount of posts. Honestly the only reason a forum admin needs to cry foul is when the link is left in an actual post (and a post that has nothing to do with a forum is spam) not a forum profile link because the admin if he is using even basic forum software should have control of the profile section and how it operates. I see too much whining about this that is unnecessary if the forum admin uses common sense and half decent forum software.

Whatever you call it, it's inconsiderate.

Why woud I call it anything? I don't do viagra and porn and I will boot people out of my service for those things. I don't take issue with some of your objections . I take exception to your blanket statements and blanket implication on what everyone is doing and how they are doing it in what you identify as blanket link spam. I know thats false because I work with sites almost every day that alllow for backlinks and are programmed for leaving backlinks by the owners.

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jasonmorgan

16 years ago

really.... c'mon... this is not what the programmers or the site owners intended...

terrykyle97 - VIBE Rap Battle Member

View Profile: bobbymington - Agile Web Solutions Support Forums

http://expressionengine.com/forums/member/146507/

I think inconsiderate might be a good word for this and these are mild examples. The people who I used as examples have profiles that are loaded with up tp 20+ links on them like they are personal little link farms.

LOL. So you call it unethical and immoral but you are doing it? Whose worse those that have a difference of opinion or you who believes its unethical but still does it?

I just don't piss on a webmaster and tell him it's raining.

Of course, those who are selling these backlinks and services don't want others to think they aren't perfectly legit white hat means of developing backlinks. How about we email the webmasters of the sites where you are leaving your links and ask them how they feel... I believe most TOS's also state to not leave commercial links n' such.

The truth is, when you use these methods you are showing that you have absolutely no consideration or care at all for that website... you're just doing a drive by link bombing in order to make a buck.

Is doing this the worst thing in the world... no, it's not that big of a deal and in most cases doesn't do any damage and is under the radar... that still doesn't mean the baby jesus would give you a thumbs up.

Why woud I call it anything? I don't do viagra and porn and I will boot people out of my service for those things.

why would content make a difference?

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Tom Goodwin 16 years ago

Originally Posted by jasonmorgan

I believe most TOS's also state to not leave commercial links n' such.

The vast majority of the sites on the standard platforms actually do not state any such restriction.

Tom
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Mike Anthony

16 years ago

Originally Posted by jasonmorgan

really.... c'mon... this is not what the programmers or the site owners intended...

terrykyle97 - VIBE Rap Battle Member

View Profile: bobbymington - Agile Web Solutions Support Forums

http://expressionengine.com/forums/member/146507/

And what exactly does that have to do with whether a site owner wants any links left at all? Could you go to a blog platforrn and see some guy post 10,000 pictures on one blog post and then conclude that blogging is violating the intent of the site owner? Thats an extreme and would get you tossed out of my program and almost all the people who facilitate profile backlinking recommend against abuse. The extreme doesn't make a rule.

I think inconsiderate might be a good word for this and these are mild examples. The people who I used as examples have profiles that are loaded with up tp 20+ links on them like they are personal little link farms.

Again. So what? How does someone abusing a site mean that it is automatically spam to post two links instead of twenty?

I just don't piss on a webmaster and tell him it's raining.

How about if you consider it pissing not doing it at all?

Of course, those who are selling these backlinks and services don't want others to think they aren't perfectly legit white hat means of developing backlinks. How about we email the webmasters of the sites where you are leaving your links and ask them how they feel

LOL! this is priceless. You have admitted to using backlinks that you consider as spamming and now you want to critique me because I help people to find suitable sites to do exactly what you do? Pot meet kettle.

Why don't you email allen and explain to him what being an anti member of Warriors means (your tag line) and if he is comfortable with it? Again a wide range of the sites I leave links with have specific linking features including "your company" and website url fields or editors that program the links in as an option. As tom has pointed out most sites have no TOS against it and that precisely because with participation many sites have nothing against it.

... I believe most TOS's also state to not leave commercial links n' such.

You believe? You are critiquing others and you don't even know?

The truth is, when you use these methods you are showing that you have absolutely no consideration or care at all for that website... you're just doing a drive by link bombing in order to make a buck.

Hey if thats what you do then I get why you think others do but as matter of fact i 've found a number of interesting sites doing what I do and theres one right now that has a paid option I never knew existed and soon will sign up for. In other words they are getting a paying customer from a guy that you allege "cares nothing about their site" and wants nothing else to do with the site. Another real estate site has become my favorite for looking up foreclosed properties. Theres a parenting sight that as a parent I will be checking out and a cms that I want to use in the future. I could go on and on.

that still doesn't mean the baby jesus would give you a thumbs up.

why would content make a difference?

Baby Jesus would know the answer to that - because thats what most of the sites I am talking about want. I'm fine with baby Jesus. He later said render unto caesar what is caeser's and these sites say give me your participation and fill out your profile and you can put a link and I render to them as they said they want and take the backlink that they say I can have.

The same baby Jesus' book in proverbs says that you should never answer an issue before you've heard it. You blindly critique all backlink sellers and users and you don't even have a clue that I am at this very time testing a system using backlink profile sites as article directory sites . In other words as another form of content syndication PRECISELY as how these sites SPECIFICALLY tell us they want their site to be used.

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