The end of the xFactor Method as we know it? I'm scared... Please help...

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The end of the xFactor Method as we know it? I'm scared... Please help.

Thank you for reading my question.

I was impressed with the xFactor method but lately, something has been really bugging me.

The below image compares the Google SERP (Search Engine Results Page) for the years 2009 and 2010 for the term "Spring Air Mattress" -- a sample niche topic used in xFactor's book.



The left shows what the SERP looked like at the time that he wrote his ebook.
The right shows what the SERP looks like now (January 2010).

Obviously, what we notice is that Google has been getting a lot more aggressive in pushing products available via Google Product Search. (http://www.google.com/products) (also, quite confusingly, referred to as "Google Merchant Center", "Froogle, "Google Products", and "Google Base")
  • Additionally, Google has finally started aggressively implementing its product thumbnail images viewer as an INTEGRATED PART of its search results.
  • Further still, Google's product thumbnail catalog grows every day, so every day, we will find more and more product pictures in the SERPS.
  • Further still, Google get's a portion of every product it pushes. Hence, we can see it is indeed in Google's interest to get their product images displayed "above the fold." In other words, despite the number of backlinks you get to your niche site, it's not really in their interest to let your little niche site outrank their product pictures.
  • Further still, thumbnails have also been introduced into the PPC portion of the SERP -- making that section more appealing in 2010 as well.
  • Further still, it has been long established that people are much more likely to click on images and links below images.
  • Further still, the new "Shopping results" active area now occupies twice as many pixels (in height) and has twice as many hot spots as it did last year.
  • Further still, if we're all being really honest, a real human person who is typing in the word "Spring Air Mattress" most likely doesn't want to look at an 800 article mattress product review -- written by some random person who owns a niche website. What that person really wants is, well, what Google seems to now be giving them. Pictures of the mattress, a list of prices, and a list of established industries that sell the mattress.
So the question is:

How does the new Google SERP layout affect the way you build product-based niche websites?

Is this the end of product traffic arbitrage?

Should I, say, stop concentrating on niche products (like Spring Air Mattress) and perhaps concentrate on niches that are much less "picture worthy" and much less prone to have to compete with Google Product Search. For example, should we now concentrate on words like "prostate disease", "Los Angeles Auto Insurance", and "How to remove termites?"

Or, should we start building mega sites like others have mentioned here?

Has anyone seen this affect your sales for your product-based niche sites?

Or, is it nothing to worry about at all?

Any ideas?

Much appreciated.
#end #method #scared #xfactor
  • Profile picture of the author zincOnline
    Not sure if its the difference in uk/us serps but I have been dealing with those product pictures long before 2010.
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    • Profile picture of the author tony-raymondo
      Originally Posted by zincOnline View Post

      Not sure if its the difference in uk/us serps but I have been dealing with those product pictures long before 2010.
      The biggest change i've noticed is, for the longest time, Google just couldn't get its act together with Google Products. Hence all the ridiculous name changes and such.

      Now it looks like they finally have. And, while I did see some product images before, i'm noticing they are appearing a LOT more now.
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      • Profile picture of the author veotis
        It's call adapting. When something changes, you adapt to it, you don't start crying Chicken Little every time Google does something different!
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        • Profile picture of the author tony-raymondo
          Originally Posted by veotis View Post

          It's call adapting. When something changes, you adapt to it, you don't start crying Chicken Little every time Google does something different!
          That's kind of the point.

          For people in the xfactor niche who already invested 6 months in creating niche product sites, i just don't know how they would adapt...

          I guess they'll have to use all those .com's for their farms or something.

          If you want to get a sense of how many xFactor sites there are - go here:

          http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&rlz=1C1GGGE_enUS351US351&q=" was+created+to+help+bring+the+best+of"&start=10&sa =N

          a lot of those people have very niche-specific domain names for specific products...
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          • Profile picture of the author Intrepreneur
            Surely everyone knows that building those corny little sites are pointless anywway..

            Like come on, how is a little 4/5 page site ever going to compete for product keywords when there are massive 1k+ page shopping sites out there already selling these products.

            Do you really think that 4 pages stands a chance, do you even think that 20 pages stands a chance?

            I bet you don't so why waste your time on silly little things when you can build something much more lucrative? Why?

            Give me on good reason?

            Oh and I've never seen any other product get discussed so damn much in this forum.. Needs checking over whether or not it's for free publicity because it looks pretty much like it.
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            • Profile picture of the author Joseph Then
              Originally Posted by Intrepreneur View Post

              Like come on, how is a little 4/5 page site ever going to compete for product keywords when there are massive 1k+ page shopping sites out there already selling these products.
              4/5 pages website will WIN a 1k+ pages website because the pages are optimized and ranked for the keywords, something that 1k+ website cannot do.
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              • Profile picture of the author Intrepreneur
                Originally Posted by Joseph Then View Post

                4/5 pages website will WIN a 1k+ pages website because the pages are optimized and ranked for the keywords, something that 1k+ website cannot do.
                WHO told you that... Google?

                LOL You must be thinking of Yahoo.. yea the search engine with abut 10 users per day.
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                • Profile picture of the author tony-raymondo
                  well if you look around, you can see lots of xfactor style sites on page 1.

                  His system does work because the domain name and the content is so narrowly focused, that most people just don't bother competing for it.

                  But, from what I understand, most xFactor people who make money, do so via sheer webite volume.

                  For example, in his book he says, on average, his minisites make 5 dollars per day. His worst 1 page website makes a dollar a day.

                  What scares me, however, is, nowadays, it's just harder to believe that people searching for products would really bother with niche review sites. It seems like Google Product Search would just suck away so many of your potential visitors.
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                  • Profile picture of the author carlos123
                    Originally Posted by tony-raymondo View Post

                    What scares me, however, is, nowadays, it's just harder to believe that people searching for products would really bother with niche review sites. It seems like Google Product Search would just suck away so many of your potential visitors.
                    I created one site that is 2 positions under a bunch of product images and yes...these product images do seem to suck traffic away. The site I created is in position 5 on the page but getting just a bare trickle of traffic. Even though the Google stats indicate that the site should get a lot more traffic than it's getting.

                    I mean there could be other factors involved (i.e. the title, description, etc..) but I suspect that nice pretty product images are sucking away a lot of the traffic that would otherwise come to the site.

                    Carlos
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                    • Profile picture of the author tony-raymondo
                      Originally Posted by carlos123 View Post

                      I created one site that is 2 positions under a bunch of product images and yes...these product images do seem to suck traffic away. The site I created is in position 5 on the page but getting just a bare trickle of traffic...I suspect that nice pretty product images are sucking away a lot of the traffic that would otherwise come to the site.
                      Thanks

                      this is EXACTLY my biggest fear

                      If more people can expand on this I'd appreciate it
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                • Profile picture of the author Joseph Then
                  Originally Posted by Intrepreneur View Post

                  WHO told you that... Google?

                  LOL You must be thinking of Yahoo.. yea the search engine with abut 10 users per day.
                  Because my webpage ranks ABOVE those pictures... And am making money from there.

                  Yeah, that's about 50+ unique visitors per day, PER page.

                  How's that?
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                  • Profile picture of the author tony-raymondo
                    Originally Posted by Joseph Then View Post

                    Because my webpage ranks ABOVE those pictures... And am making money from there.
                    Yes it is possible to outrank the google Shopping Results.

                    Can you tell us if you outranked with a minisite or a bigger one?
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            • Profile picture of the author Intrepreneur
              Originally Posted by Franco Mocke View Post

              Amen, me too, don't understand why every 10th post is about xfactor's method.
              Agreed, I wish I could delete them all as 80% of them are only for free publicity.
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            • Profile picture of the author Jacob Martus
              Originally Posted by Intrepreneur View Post

              Surely everyone knows that building those corny little sites are pointless anywway..

              Like come on, how is a little 4/5 page site ever going to compete for product keywords when there are massive 1k+ page shopping sites out there already selling these products.

              Do you really think that 4 pages stands a chance, do you even think that 20 pages stands a chance?

              I bet you don't so why waste your time on silly little things when you can build something much more lucrative? Why?

              Give me on good reason?

              Oh and I've never seen any other product get discussed so damn much in this forum.. Needs checking over whether or not it's for free publicity because it looks pretty much like it.
              Yeah all of us got together and said you know what? Let's just devote the majority of our time to promoting someone elses product without affiliate links and without anything pointing to the product. We just feel like being generous. No...more likely the reason that this strategy is discussed so much is because it works. And it is working for a lot of people.

              Instead of just hating on everything related to a strategy which you think is inadequate, maybe offer some insight as to what youre talking about when you say to build something more worthwhile.

              If you don't like reading about it, don't click on the thread. That's pretty simple.
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            • Profile picture of the author carlos123
              Originally Posted by Franco Mocke View Post

              Amen, me too, don't understand why every 10th post is about xfactor's method.
              Well...how about because people want Adsense success handed to them on a silver platter complete with the eating utensils? When what they perceive as the cookie cutter approach doesn't work they start asking questions as to why not.

              It's not John's fault. He offers some interesting ideas and encouragement but building mini-sites around specific products does not seem like a viable long term Adsense strategy to me.

              Products will come and go. The popularity and thus searchability of specific products won't last. New products will come and take their place. New models. Old products will get discontinued. How long will a web site focused on one specific product that is popular today, last? Not long term I would think.

              I haven't tried John's method so I can't say for sure but that's just off the top. I'm focused on building mini-information sites that will be of value long term. Still product related but in a more general way.

              Carlos
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          • Profile picture of the author carlos123
            Originally Posted by tony-raymondo View Post

            Unreal! I mean how can people be such copycats (or should I say foolish?) that they will use the same exact About Me page and leave a footprint to their sites a mile wide? Absolutely unbelievable!

            Not only that but many of the sites say "Marketer Here! Nothing to see here! Move along!". The sites don't even look like legitimate sites. They look like cookie cutter sites put out by scrapers. They have the Adsense look and feel of MFA sites all over them.

            If you are going to create Adsense sites at least make them LOOK like well built, unique web sites that had some love and care put into them instead of being copycats of everyone else!

            If I was in Google's shoes I would ban every single web site that has that About Me on it. Easy way to removed thousands and thousands of spammy looking sites out of their index in one fell swoop.

            Like I said....unbelievable!

            Carlos
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        • Profile picture of the author XFactor
          Originally Posted by veotis View Post

          It's call adapting. When something changes, you adapt to it, you don't start crying Chicken Little every time Google does something different!
          Exactly.

          Minus the "crying chicken" comment though

          - John
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          • Profile picture of the author tony-raymondo
            Originally Posted by XFactor View Post

            Adapting.
            John I like your book. But could you use this thread to tell us how one might adapt?

            For example, knowin what you know now, would you still consider Spring Air Mattress a good keyword?
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            • Profile picture of the author Stephen Crooks
              Reading this just reminds me of that classic sketch from Monty Pythons life of Brian..

              Brian: "I'm not the Messiah! Will you please listen? I am not the Messiah, do you understand? Honestly!"
              Girl: "Only the true Messiah denies His divinity."
              Brian: "What? Well, what sort of chance does that give me? All right! I am the Messiah!"
              Followers: "He is! He is the Messiah!"
              Brian: "Now, f**k off!"
              [silence]
              Arthur: "How shall we f**k off, O Lord?"

              Originally Posted by tony-raymondo View Post

              John I like your book. But could you use this thread to tell us how one might adapt?

              For example, knowin what you know now, would you still consider Spring Air Mattress a good keyword?
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      • Profile picture of the author emigre
        Originally Posted by Franco Mocke View Post

        Google will eventually throw out all of the small mini sites of no value. The internet is just getting too darn busy, and with Google getting more and more greedy they will keep getting new ideas to make money like you just see happened.

        Google maps will also take over. Search for pizza washington and see what happens.

        Because the xfactor method depends upon product based mini websites I believe that they are in great danger because of Google maps and what you pointed out.

        That is why I focus on building large sites, and not mini sites. I believe they will be of more value in the future.
        Darn it, you're right. I was searching for something the other day and google maps pops up...what the...
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        • Profile picture of the author tony-raymondo
          I forgot to mention Google Maps.

          Yes I have also noticed them popping up a lot more in "REGION + SERVICE" keywords. (e.g. San Diego Lawyer) That's hapenned for a while. But their regional service database seems to be growing and they seem much more willing to use it then they used to be.

          The map doesn't scare me as much as the product images do though.

          But either way, it's looking like we're going to have to learn to live with a much more richly populated Google SERP.

          more ideas?
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  • Profile picture of the author Vexo
    You are over analyzing this. Stop worrying about every new little block that gets added. Google changes constantly, if you are going to think that it is over after every little change then you are not going to make it
    Signature

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  • Profile picture of the author LilBlackDress
    I have mini sites and large sites. I thought XFactors book was excellent with one exception (regarding the article marketing/resource box). And X made it very clear that copying his exact format was not a good idea. I used my own twist on X's plan and made a few hundred off one site alone (from an affiliate link I added not the adsense).

    I love focusing on the large sites but what happens if Google de-indexes you? My one large site (not an X style site) recently dropped in PR ranking despite my using only white hat methods to build links and all original content.

    I understand Google is now giving points for page load. So I am penalized because I add photos and content rich material over a static site?

    It is hard to tell what will be best for the future...
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    Pen Name + 8 eBooks + social media sites 4 SALE - PM me (evergreen beauty niche)

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    • Profile picture of the author carlos123
      Originally Posted by LilBlackDress View Post

      I understand Google is now giving points for page load. So I am penalized because I add photos and content rich material over a static site?
      Don't assume things about why Google does this or that. Speculation about such things is rampant and further speculation does little good. At least as a solid basis for doing anything we do though speculations do at times make for some interesting discussions.

      Don't base the slightest period you use on the end of sentences on whether or not you think Google will like it.

      Just build quality mini-sites with valuable content and slap Adsense on them when they reach into the top ten ranking. I think that's a good long term strategy.

      I become a mini-expert on whatever I write about. Takes me about 2-3 hours just to come up with the content of each site page. Sure I won't be as immediately successful at making money as pumping out hundreds of MFA type sites might give me but long term...I hope to be sitting pretty while the thousands of MFA sites get left in the dust.

      There's nothing wrong with building tons of MFA sites. I personally just prefer to make my Adsense success more stable and less prone to being cancelled overnight type of thing.

      Carlos
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    • Profile picture of the author tony-raymondo
      Originally Posted by LilBlackDress View Post

      So I am penalized because I add photos and content rich material over a static site?
      this most likely wouldnt cause a PR change.

      but still, load times do indeed effect the overall score.

      Folks should always use Adobe Photoshop's "save for web" option.

      It's magic.
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  • Profile picture of the author carlos123
    Originally Posted by ProductCreator View Post

    Anyway, gives even more reason to stop planning and start pumping out sites like a madman!
    No. Any business strategy that relies on just pumping out sites is doomed to fail long term in my opinion. Why? Because everyone and their next door neighbor will be pumping out sites such that Google will eventually do something to diminish the low quality web sites being pumped out.

    I personally prefer to build in more value than just making my sites more of the same cookie cutter.

    As for those copycat sites, man I can't believe how lazy people are! I personally am mixing up the page dimensions, colours, text for About Me and Contact Us and more.
    If you are going to be pumping out sites as a business strategy at least make them different enough to make them somewhat if not entirely unique. Just like you are doing. There is absolutely no excuse for using the same About Me page. That's just nuts. Better yet get rid of the About Me pages altogether. They aren't needed and quite frankly add to the spammy look of the sites in question as they are presently written.

    As for banning "About Me", surely that wouldn't work? There are tons of sites with "About Me" in them are there not?
    I wasn't saying ban ALL About Me pages. That would be silly. I said that if I was Google I would ban all About Me pages that have the specific text that shows up on the thousands of XFactor like sites you linked to.

    It's called finding a unique sentence that shows up on spammy looking sites and banning them in one fell swoop.

    Incidentally some of Google's anti-spam fighting algorithms do just that. They study spammy looking sites and then change their algorithm to identify them based on a commonality between them.

    NONE of the Adsense sites I have worked on have anything at all in common with each other. Every single one of them is absolutely unique. They use the same overall framework and template but there is no single text, image, or otherwise on them that can be used to connect them with each other.

    Not even in the code. I use a custom made CMS system I created to spit them out for me. So the code itself doesn't leave a footprint unless one considers well written code and generic image names like "header.png" a footprint I guess LOL.

    Carlos
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    • Profile picture of the author carlos123
      Originally Posted by ProductCreator View Post

      You misunderstand. "Pumping" refers to speed and has nothing to do with quality.
      Sorry if I misunderstood you ProductCreator (don't know what else to call you). Yes...I thought you were talking about quality as in pumping out tons of low quality, cookie cutter sites to see if any of them stick to the wall money wise.

      I've been thinking of dropping them. I don't see the point of the "About Me" page. Some people here even think that "About Me" and "Contact Us" are required by Google as part of Adsense TOS.
      I personally include a full, all out, Contact Me form on all my Adsense sites. Complete with a custom coded PHP script that sends me any comments left in email form. It looks more professional and less spammy that way and would contribute to the overall look of my site as not being your typical MFA site.

      I should qualify what I said about the About Me page. IF it contributes to making a site less spammy then by all means include it. But if it's more of the same generic, ho hum, boring and useless copycat dribble it contributes to making one's site looking like an MFA site and should be dropped entirely in my opinion.

      header.png ? Haha you've been rumbled!
      Oh...gosh. Don't quite know what rumbled means but it don't sound too good

      I'll have to actually do a search on Google and see if header.png is leaving a footprint LOL. Maybe I should rename the file to the.png or something LOL.

      Better yet I should get back to work! LOL

      Every time I say something on this forum I feel like I am putting my head in the proverbial chopping block since I am such a newbie at Adsense (though learning more and more with each passing day). It just seems like there is so much silliness going on sometimes that I can't help but to speak up.

      Carlos
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  • Profile picture of the author euhlir
    There's nothing wrong with building tons of MFA sites. I personally just prefer to make my Adsense success more stable and less prone to being cancelled overnight type of thing.
    I agree completely. Sure there are some that are making spammy and extremely thin MFA sites, but I make mine quality and as useful if not more useful for visitors than a huge product site because I offer other topics relating to the main product my site is built around.

    Example: Smoothie Blender Machine

    -smoothie recipes
    -cleaning your smoothie maker
    -best smoothie maker reviews
    -etc.

    Just a pretty basic example I came up with in 10 secs, but you get the gist. My sites are highly optimized and offer more value to a visitor than any mega site so my sites deserve and do outrank these mega sites with millions of backlinks. Following this simple strategy takes time, but it does make you a lot of passive money down the road.
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  • Profile picture of the author MusicisMagic
    I think the size of your site has little to do with things. Quality is the greatest measure.
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    • Profile picture of the author tony-raymondo
      Hi guys thanks for all your input.

      I'd really like to steer the conversation away from the following debates:
      • niche sites vs. mega sites
      • one-page-webs vs. multi-page-webs
      • spammy adsense sites vs. quality content
      Instead, I think my original question is quite important to all of the XFactor people.

      That being:

      How does the new Google SERP layout affect the way you build product-based niche websites?

      In other words, I think it is fairly established now, that it is quite possible to get extremely high CTR's, and rank very easily when you focus on SPECIFIC products to make MFA sites about (e.g. Remington Grill Covers) or whatever.

      BUT, now that Google seems to have realized that the actual commercial intent of people who type in such phrases is quite high (and have taken over more and more of their results page for thier own business interests (e.g. product thumbnails)) then my question is:

      Is this the end of product traffic arbitrage.

      Or perhaps more specifically my question is:

      Has product traffic arbitrage recently gotten A LOT more difficult in the last 3 months (due to the SERP changes).

      Thanks!
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  • Profile picture of the author Fraggler
    You might need to target the buyers seeking information first or grab their attention with catchy headlines and descriptions. If that fails then you should be looking at how to become one of the images on the page. If you feel they are such a threat then the only way to eliminate that threat is to bump it off its position. It might even be a way to leap frog better pages and get more traffic for less work.

    Does it cost money to get onto Google Products? How do they select the images? Do they allow AdSense on the product pages?
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    • Profile picture of the author tony-raymondo
      Originally Posted by Fraggler View Post

      If that fails then you should be looking at how to become one of the images on the page.
      you register with Google Products and sell via them. But you have to already be a company that sells physical products to begin with. e.g. it's never been a better time to be a "drop shipper" i'm thinking lately. My friend is making a killing.


      Originally Posted by Fraggler View Post

      If you feel they are such a threat then the only way to eliminate that threat is to bump it off its position.
      Google does seem to often let some website outrank its own product images - usually positions 1-3 are filled with sites that appear to have absolute authority.

      niche websites rarely acheive authority

      hence, my question.

      Seems like even in the best case scenario, following the xFactor system, you will fail to outrank Google product images. Hence you are destined to remain forever delegated to positions 4-10 -- lying very close to the fold at best.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      That's not a niche that should be used. Results of searching it are skewed because the company diligently protects its trademark. I noticed quite a few people using that term after John mentioned in one of his original threads and now I wonder if that was around the same time of the older search.

      The numbers for that niche will look good - lots of searches, little competition - but the small competition is because that company does not allow people to use its trademark.

      The only sites that will using that trademark name in urls or file titles are those merchants who sell the product.

      More than that, anytime you look at results after a year they will be different and sometimes part of that is due to changes in ranking policies and some just due to changes in sites as new sites come online or top sites move down in the rank.

      As for your original question - it doesn't affect my sites. I adjust if I see the need to but otherwise just keep going. Change is one of the few constants online.

      kay
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      • Profile picture of the author tony-raymondo
        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        That's not a niche that should be used. Results of searching it are skewed because the company diligently protects its trademark.
        In his book, John said that he indeed DOES buy domains with trademarks in them.

        This indeed DOES scare the crap out of me. And, as companies get more internet savvy everyday, my hunch is that these companies will eventually be sending little letters to these website holders with their brand names.

        At that point, all the work they put in to ranking the site, and backlinking the site, will be lost. Additionally, in theory, the company arguably could take legal action against them.

        So I personally stay away from brand names.

        Though they do have great CTR's.

        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        As for your original question - it doesn't affect my sites. I adjust if I see the need to but otherwise just keep going.
        Well given that the VAST VAST VAST majority of all websurfers click on the first three websites in the SERP, and almost never ever click below the fold, the new google Serps are most deffinitely affecting the Return On Investment of people who are doing product websites.

        Because of this, I feel I must stress the importance of my question again...
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        • Profile picture of the author Kay King
          You managed to totally misunderstand what I said. I didn't say you should use trademarks or you shouldn't and John tells you to decide for yourself.

          I said THAT niche is not giving you any real information for your research because they protect trademark which makes the competing site numbers appear low. You see the low number and think you are the first person to think of building a niche site for the product (all the other sites are retailers selling product). John probably thought the same when he included that company as an example.

          Which is proof that no matter how much analysis you do - you can't control everything or foresee everything. Also true is the worst site online has more potential than the perfect site that is never uploaded from your computer.

          kay
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          Saving one dog will not change the world - but the world changes forever for that one dog
          ***
          One secret to happiness is to let every situation be
          what it is instead of what you think it should be.
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          • Profile picture of the author tony-raymondo
            Originally Posted by Kay King View Post


            I said THAT niche is not giving you any real information for your research because they protect trademark which makes the competing site numbers appear low.
            what?

            who is 'they'
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            • Profile picture of the author Kay King
              "they" is Spring Air - the big graphics you started your thread with.
              Very simply - analyzing that niche will tell you nothing. Never mind why.
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              Saving one dog will not change the world - but the world changes forever for that one dog
              ***
              One secret to happiness is to let every situation be
              what it is instead of what you think it should be.
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              • Profile picture of the author tresfavian
                You say most surfers click on the top 3. I say it's just as good on the first page like 4,5,6. I look on the 1st 3 pages for info. Lots of times the 1st 3 do not have the right info I'm looking for anywayz. And I look beyond 1st page becuz a lot of good information is not at the top 3.
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                • Profile picture of the author tony-raymondo
                  Originally Posted by tresfavian View Post

                  You say most surfers click on the top 3. I say it's just as good on the first page like 4,5,6..
                  Statistically, the more space Google Products occupies, the more money we will lose.

                  It has been shown repeatedly that the top few hundred pixels get the VAST majority of the clicks.








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              • Profile picture of the author tony-raymondo
                Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                "they" is Spring Air - the big graphics you started your thread with.
                Very simply - analyzing that niche will tell you nothing. Never mind why.

                how does the Spring Air Corporation "make the competing site numbers appear low"

                :confused:
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  • Profile picture of the author terryrayburn
    Originally Posted by tony-raymondo View Post

    The end of the xFactor Method as we know it? I'm scared... Please help.

    Thank you for reading my question.

    I was impressed with the xFactor method but lately, something has been really bugging me.
    Tony, don't shoot me for being blunt, but have you actually DONE anything, or are you just theorizing?

    1. It's obvious your "fear" has nothing to do with you actually DOING the Xfactor method, only with thinking too much.

    2. Your "fear" is keeping you from making money while Xfactor and others of us who are actually DOING his system, or a form of it, are actually making money.

    3. Your paralysis of analysis is doing you no good.

    4. I love Xfactor's method. It's not for everybody, because you have to keep building and building. But it works! It will likely always work, even if at a lower rate, but the residual return for the time put in is the best thing I've done online.

    5. Just think if Xfactor had succumbed to the same fears you have. He'd be $300+ per day poorer.
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    • Profile picture of the author tony-raymondo
      Originally Posted by terryrayburn View Post

      Tony, don't shoot me for being blunt, but have you actually DONE anything, or are you just theorizing?.
      i've been doing adsense since October 2005

      Above, even xFactor seemed to emphasize a need to 'adapt'

      it's a shame he didn't expand on that.

      These developments have occured after the publication of his book. And, as the charts above reveal, for every pixel google pushes you down their page, you are indeed LOSING money.

      This is not a pithy matter.
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      • Profile picture of the author Wakunahum
        Lets say it effects you by 20%. Just build 20% more sites/pages/links etc.

        In the long run it really doesn't matter.

        As you get more backlinks to a page you start getting more traffic from terms you weren't trying to rank for as well.
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        • Profile picture of the author latinoman
          Ok Unlike some other people I am going to be blunt as it's the best way. For one this post is bloody useless and pointless. For many reasons.

          1) You state you been doing this since october 2005? Correct? If so I am sure you are either making good money or havent made a dime. Either way since 2005, that is a long time ago. You should have experience on the changes that have happened since then and you should be more than capable of adapting due to your knowledge.

          2) Dont associate this method with "X FACTOR" as this way of making money via adsense has been around circa 2002-2003. What he teaches is common knowledge in seo and has been around since the beggining of adsense.

          3) The "XFACTOR" method is exactly that, it's xfactors method on how he does things. It's not new, and is just a great guide on teaching those a system step by step on how to make money with adsense.

          4)I am a noobie, only been at this marketing stuff for 9 months coming to the end of january and i dont find myself posting pointless posts like this. So what if there are pics there. It dont bother me, and dont bother many, it just means you have to adapt. If you dont know how to adapt and have to come to this forum and post garbage like this then you should be clearly doing something else.

          Am i harsh....Yes I am. But i aint pussy footing round posts like this because it will just encourage more similar posts to pop up. Oh and before it come sup, yes I am making money in fact over £80.00 daily. How many sites do i have up......just over 28 that consistently bring me these earnings. SO while you sit there typing posts like this, people like me are soaking it in. Take your time threatning over these issues, more money for me.

          :-) By the way cool name.
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          • Profile picture of the author tony-raymondo
            :rolleyes: sigh...

            seems to be some visciousness in this thread. i thought the points were pretty clear honestly... Usually only see this kind of reaction to data from the SiteSell people.

            Hmm...

            Let's see if i can make this more clear.





            In 2009, Google didn't have many product thumbnails on their SERP.

            In 2010, Google does have many product thumbnails on their SERP.

            So, complete this sentence:


            These facts affect my efforts at product traffic arbitrage ______ .
            1. ... a lot! I've seen a big dip in profits per niche.
            2. ... a little. I haven't lost much.
            3. ... not at all weirdo! Stop asking dumb stuff!
            I also find it unsettling that about 5 people (including xfactor himself) have mentioned a need to "adapt". But, no one explained how they are doing so.

            Is there some super secret adaptation to that chapter of his book that needs to be implemented in the 2010 version?
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            • Profile picture of the author XFactor
              Originally Posted by tony-raymondo View Post


              Is there some super secret adaptation to that chapter of his book that needs to be implemented in the 2010 version?
              Although your question(s) are difficult to answer, because there is no
              real question here as opposed to your concern of these images in the
              search engines, I'll try to expand what ***I*** mean by adapting
              in this business.

              1) Instead of using the word adapt, I should instead use the words "just
              deal with it" in terms of what the search engines are doing.

              Why? Because we have very little control over what is done in terms of
              SEO and relying on free search engine traffic, and can only work by guidelines.

              2) I do not worry about such trivial changes as the one you brought up.
              I work like a gardener - planting many seeds (web pages) and harvesting
              them the best that I can.

              Which ever seeds (web pages) grow, I nurture them without trying to
              control the rain (Google), the droughts (Google), the hurricanes (Google),
              the insects eating my plants (Google).

              3) I have many pages on the bottom of page 1, others on page 3, 4, 5 and
              so on that do just fine in earnings.


              I've got tons of pages in highly competitive niches like weight loss and
              smoking that are from page 10 or so, and still get clicks (not everyone
              stops at page 1).


              Good luck to you.

              - John
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        • Profile picture of the author Aditya K
          You need to understand, that there is NOTHING such as the 'xFactor' method. It is just simple SEO for low competition keywords, something that has been around for ages. Only, John aka xfactor, has presented it to everyone in a very doable, step-by-step manner.

          Moreover, there are literally millions of niches out there, and therefore, you can select another niche, if you are not happy with a particular one (mattresses in this case.)

          Lastly, there cannot be an 'end' or 'death' of the 'xfactor' method, simply because, there is no 'method' actually.
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          • Profile picture of the author tony-raymondo
            Originally Posted by golweb View Post

            You need to understand, that there is NOTHING such as the 'xFactor' method. It is just simple SEO for low competition keywords, something that has been around for ages. Only, John aka xfactor, has presented it to everyone in a very doable, step-by-step manner.

            Moreover, there are literally millions of niches out there, and therefore, you can select another niche, if you are not happy with a particular one (mattresses in this case.)
            In retrospect I probably titled this thread VERY VERY WRONG.

            The only reason i mentioned xfactor specifically is because his method focuses particularly on niche sites for individual products, and his book gets a lot of chatter on this forum.

            So let's lay out the question without mentioning John:

            These days, the Google user has MORE product choices presented to them on the SERP - than the user's did last year. Google occupies more space on the SERP and CTR exponentially decrease as a sites position falls. Google seems to only allow larger authority sites to appear ABOVE their Shopping Results listings.

            Hence, the question is, should we continue creating product-specific niche sites (like the ones used by xFactor et al.), given the new Google SERP layout. -- or should we concentrate on other niches - e.g. like providing info on services, not goods. Or, should we focus on bigger AUTHORITY sites about products, and try to outrank the Shopping Results.



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          • Profile picture of the author XFactor
            Originally Posted by golweb View Post

            You need to understand, that there is NOTHING such as the 'xFactor' method. It is just simple SEO for low competition keywords, something that has been around for ages. Only, John aka xfactor, has presented it to everyone in a very doable, step-by-step manner.

            Moreover, there are literally millions of niches out there, and therefore, you can select another niche, if you are not happy with a particular one (mattresses in this case.)

            Lastly, there cannot be an 'end' or 'death' of the 'xfactor' method, simply because, there is no 'method' actually.
            I couldn't have said it better myself, thank you.

            - John
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        • Profile picture of the author HCLee
          I have noticed that Google uses images to show some results but it is usually one of 10 positions on the first page if I'm not mistaken so it's really no big deal. You can put some images on your site if you are targeting products and who knows your image might be used by Google. When that happens you have 2 SERP for your keyword.
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          • Profile picture of the author DireStraits
            Originally Posted by HCLee View Post

            I have noticed that Google uses images to show some results but it is usually one of 10 positions on the first page if I'm not mistaken so it's really no big deal. You can put some images on your site if you are targeting products and who knows your image might be used by Google. When that happens you have 2 SERP for your keyword.
            It's not really as simple as that. To be part of the listings that we are discussing here, you have to be involved in the "Google Products" service. It's free, but it requires you to upload a datafeed of your products in order for them to be listed.

            Obviously the problem for us is that given we are not selling products directly from our websites, we cannot upload any such datafeed.

            Overall though - perhaps rather foolishly (I don't know) - I'm not too worried about this change. From what I can see, these features of Googles SERPS are an addition to the existing 10 ranking slots on page 1. So whilst they might steal some traffic if they garner a searchers interest, it's not like your website is being pushed off the front page of Google in favour of these listings.
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      • Profile picture of the author edpudol1973
        Originally Posted by tony-raymondo View Post

        i've been doing adsense since October 2005

        Above, even xFactor seemed to emphasize a need to 'adapt'

        it's a shame he didn't expand on that.

        These developments have occured after the publication of his book. And, as the charts above reveal, for every pixel google pushes you down their page, you are indeed LOSING money.

        This is not a pithy matter.
        If you're addressing your question to all xfactor's customers who are following his ebook, why not ask at john's members forum I guess the xfactors members forum is the best place to ask this question because all of us who are using xfactors technique can share our thoughts with you there.
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  • Profile picture of the author lee schmidt
    Tony,

    A com/net/org domain costs ~$16/year (assuming private registration). I think it would be hard not to cover that cost in an entire year from one site. The XFactor method (which is nothing revolutionary) will still yield profit - maybe it will be slightly less now, but still profitable. Just keep on building and you will make more and more money. Don't make things more complex than they need to be.
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  • Profile picture of the author terryd
    I couldn't care less if Google now has thumbnails with their serps now because there is NOTHING you can do about it so why worry or be scared for goodness sakes!
    Signature

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    • Profile picture of the author tony-raymondo
      Originally Posted by terryd View Post

      there is NOTHING you can do about it so why worry
      It's important for somone considering SERVICE TRAFFIC ARBITRAGE vs. PRODUCT TRAFFIC ARBITRAGE

      e.g. should i make a site on Pest Removal or Corvair Microwave Model 230
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      • Profile picture of the author terryd
        Originally Posted by tony-raymondo View Post

        It's important for somone considering SERVICE TRAFFIC ARBITRAGE vs. PRODUCT TRAFFIC ARBITRAGE

        e.g. should i make a site on Pest Removal or Corvair Microwave Model 230
        So your saying that just because Google now has images that I should steer clear of product sales pages.........hell no!

        As I said before, I couldn't care less if they have images there or not. It will not affect my decision one bit when creating a site.
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        • Profile picture of the author tony-raymondo
          Originally Posted by terryd View Post

          So your saying that just because Google now has images that I should steer clear of product sales pages.
          no

          i'm saying that if you promote branded physical products these days, your CTR will be lower than it was last year.
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          • Profile picture of the author terryd
            Originally Posted by tony-raymondo View Post

            no

            i'm saying that if you promote branded physical products these days, your CTR will be lower than it was last year.
            But it's hardly the "end of the xFactor Method" or something to be "scared of".

            In fact it makes no difference to me, lower CTR is better than no CTR.
            Signature

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      • Profile picture of the author XFactor
        Originally Posted by tony-raymondo View Post

        It's important for somone considering SERVICE TRAFFIC ARBITRAGE vs. PRODUCT TRAFFIC ARBITRAGE

        e.g. should i make a site on Pest Removal or Corvair Microwave Model 230
        Both.

        - John
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  • Profile picture of the author WealthWithin
    I can understand the OP's fear of Googles changes. But that's exactly what it is - fear of change. Just because this method works for xFactor it doesn't mean it becomes a universal law. Ride the wave while it's strong and then catch another wave.

    This method is nothing new. The whole 30 Day Challenge is based on this method. xFactor made his own twist by just focusing on products.

    Similarly you need to have your own twist. At the end of the day, if Google is going to give us traffic, ads and finally the cheques, it doesn't do any good to complain about it. Google is probably the most dynamic company out there responding to market needs, and we have to either beat'em or join'em.

    That search on Google to find how many xFactor cookie cutter sites are, it's just amazing. But for the ones who are worried about leaving a footprint for Google, Google doesn't have to rely on your 'About Me' or 'header.png' to track your sites. You have something called 'adsense publisher ID' which they can use to kick your whole network out in a second.

    My point is, Google is changing and will continue to change their stuff. Find a way to work around it, over it, under it or through it until you get results.
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  • Profile picture of the author goginoo
    build more anchored backlinks!
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  • Profile picture of the author sitefurnace
    I love these type of conversations as they really make you look at things from a different perspective and force you to think about what you are doing.

    Although at first it seems you are asking a simple question on the mechanics of the serps/ctr. What has developed though is a question on the future of google in general.

    A few of my thoughts.
    YES it will affect traffic to product related sites
    building sites on services will succumb to google maps and local search
    Worry about what big G is doing or just get on and take what you can NOW and then get ready for the next thing

    There is still traffic in the lower positions. You can literally make a site and with no BL's at all rank position 5-10, still get traffic and money

    There is NOTHING that is 100% future proof. The ONLY way to survive long term is to change and adapt. Someone mentioned to start learning adwords - recently thousands of long term adwords experts had their accounts closed for no reason by google. Nothing is safe.

    Every form of business has its risks and needs massive concentration to safeguard it be it IM, dropshipping, high street stores EVERYTHING. There are mininmal long term passive income methods - just accept that you will work for a long time yet - just learn to enjoy it
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  • Profile picture of the author big_t
    I think one more point to add is that many people will purposely ignore these picture ads. I know I will.
    When people are looking to find info, reviews, descriptions about a product, I would think they are less likely to click on just a picture with a price under it.
    And even if they do click on one, it's not to say they won't just hit "Back" and continue browsing.

    I don't think this is a reason to panic. It might have a bit of an effect, but I wouldn't expect a huge difference.
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    • Profile picture of the author lee schmidt
      Tony,

      What kind of answer are you looking for? Would you be satisfied if we all said HELL NO don't make a single additional site focused on a product. Or if we told you, HELL YEAH keep on making your product focused sites. Does it really matter what we tell you? Take a couple hours and build both types of sites and compare the results.

      To be honest, you seem like you've not created a single "xfactor" site and want to know if it's still profitable to create sites like these. So here's your answer:

      ***No, they are not profitable anymore. In fact, no money can be made on the internet anymore due to Google's product placements on the SERPS. Move along...***

      Does that finally give you closure to your little problem?

      I don't mean to sound aggravated but somebody needs to give you a reality check!
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      • Profile picture of the author tony-raymondo
        Originally Posted by lee schmidt View Post

        Tony,

        What kind of answer are you looking for? !
        I was hoping someone would compare and contrast the actual ROI of their product traffic arbitrage niche websites -- (as a function of CTR, Adsense Revenue, and KWP rankings) for Q1 of 2009 vs. Q4 of 2009 and Q1 of 2010. And more conversation on the possible benefits of moving from a niche-based website paradigm to a mega authority website marketing strategy (This seems to be the move KeywordAcademy is pushing in 2010.) Or, conversation on the 2010 benefits of focusing on content generation efforts on service-based niches (that are much less picture-prone) vs. branded products.

        In retrospect, this was probably wishful thinking. I'll have to get the data myself and report back here.
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        • Profile picture of the author JackBenson
          Service oriented results for some markets already have the organic serps below the fold after the ads and local map listings. So I'm not sure why you see this as a good alternative to go for after a few product images were added to product searches.

          Google will continue to clutter up the serps with things that make them money or help users, and push the organic serps farther down the page.

          It sounds like you want hard data when there probably isn't any, if you think these types of sites won't work for you, try something else.
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          • Profile picture of the author Kay King
            I'll have to get the data myself and report back here.
            An excellent cure for anaylsis paralysis.
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            One secret to happiness is to let every situation be
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        • Profile picture of the author veotis
          Originally Posted by tony-raymondo View Post

          I'll have to get the data myself and report back here.
          There ya go....someone is starting to see the light!
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        • Profile picture of the author tjcocker
          Originally Posted by tony-raymondo View Post

          I was hoping someone would compare and contrast the actual ROI of their product traffic arbitrage niche websites -- (as a function of CTR, Adsense Revenue, and KWP rankings) for Q1 of 2009 vs. Q4 of 2009 and Q1 of 2010. And more conversation on the possible benefits of moving from a niche-based website paradigm to a mega authority website marketing strategy (This seems to be the move KeywordAcademy is pushing in 2010.) Or, conversation on the 2010 benefits of focusing on content generation efforts on service-based niches (that are much less picture-prone) vs. branded products.

          In retrospect, this was probably wishful thinking. I'll have to get the data myself and report back here.
          I want to know why you wouldn't try a little of both? Worried about wasting your time? A lot of money can be made if you just try stuff without worrying about your time or if it's a sure thing. There are no sure things, anything could happen. Diversify and adapt.

          Also, once you spend your time and money doing research you won't be all that willing to spill everything to some random person on a forum who is unwilling to do the research themselves. I know, that makes forums pointless, so that's why people do share sometimes. Here's my share: Go for it. Those silly Google product pictures aren't always on top, yet, and a few of my sites still rank higher than them. However, I can see the writing on the wall - Google wants to do something about all these mini product/review sites. So I'll manage. Other than that, there's a seasonal dip, plus Google's new personalized search changes, plus the economy... so we really can't compare anything to last year or even last quarter.

          Good luck fumbling blindly through the dark like the rest of us.
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          Initrode Consulting -Boulder SEO, Copywriting, Editing, Website design, etc...
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  • Profile picture of the author Titans
    So the OP asked how is Google images affecting people, and we have people like veotis too busy trying to prove he doesn't have a small penis.

    What is this a highschool locker forum? Yeah ok we all know what "adapt" means but that's not what the OP asked is it, not to mention if everyone needs to "adapt" then it automatically implies the old method isn't effective.

    Of course google's images is going to reduce traffic.

    I mean come on, those who says otherwise is just in denial, the same guy who said your meta description is important, some how thinks everything will be fine if there is a big slab of images right next to your site result. A picture worths a thousand words so a bunch of image is like 200 times better than your meta description.

    To answer the OP's question:

    Yes the new images is going to kick your ass on traffic IF your site was on a search result page with no images before. The same way Google maps took out a lot of "lawyers in x" traffic, search lawyers in x (where x is a location), and you get a big slab of google map right in your face, this wasn't the case before Google map.

    Your only defense against it, other than changing your game completely, is learn how tabloid magazines do their headlines titles, they are the experts on capturing attention with limited text space. Use catchy titles, mix a little CAPS with non caps, etc. But really it is just bandaid when you are fighting against a bunch of images that only they have and you don't.

    So when you are looking for your next keyword, don't bother with it unless you know you can make your site rank above the Google images, or the CPC is high enough even sitting below the images is worth your time.

    Some of you who gives useless answers need to stop being emotional and defensive and start looking at a problem exactly the way it is, the visitors on google don't care about your ego.

    The human brain interprets images a lot faster than text, and you are dealing with a specie that have an average attention span of a dead fly and can't store more than 7 items in their temporary memory. If there are images getting in the way of their search-look-click mechanism then it is going to affect the traffic.

    This is just a game of numbers. The size of your body parts has nothing to do with it.
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  • Profile picture of the author wildfremd
    Banned
    [DELETED]
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    • Profile picture of the author Bronwyn and Keith
      Hi Warriors

      The X factor type approach works.

      All you need to do is create a bunch of sites. We do it easily (check our sig) Add a bit of extra content to the ones that kick and ignore the ones that don't.

      Then do it again.

      Regards

      Bronwyn and Keith
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      • Profile picture of the author JoshuaG
        If any of you are worried, you could always sell your rapidly deprecating adsense real estate to me.

        Always happy to buy a "fixer uper" if the price is right.
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  • Profile picture of the author kerunai
    huhu..my adsense is related to products as well so i think this is good news
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    Why list building no longer works like it used to… and what to do about it

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