The Danger of Using Automated Backlinking Tools?

15 years ago

Originally Posted by KateD

Hello All,

I'd like to share a mistake I made this week. It involves using an automated backlink program, and the negative effect that it caused me.

Here's what happened:

I have been working for months on a blog in the diabetes niche (I don't mind sharing the niche because I tend to focus on very targeted subniches within a larger niche - still good search volume, much less competition).

Anyway, this niche blog is based around a single keyword phrase. This phrase gets about 250 daily searches, and has competition around 200,000 (more than I usually tackle, but the first page of Google looked manageable).

After proper backlinking and article marketing, I had gotten the blog to the #11 spot in Google's search engine results.

I was one spot away from the first page, and I was just starting to see traffic from it.

I thought that if I got a few more backlinks, that I'd crack the top ten, and then I'd slowly work my way up the first page.

But then I made a critical mistake.

I came across this "backlinking" tool that was suppose to automate the backlinking process.

All I had to do was enter my domain name, and the software would automatically build links on about 3,000 sites.

3,000 backlinks would definitely help, right? No. Not the way I did it anyway.

After about 200 backlinks being created, my inner IMer started to shout at me to shut the program off, which I did. But it was too late.

The very next day my site disappeared completely from Google's search engine results. And it was gone until today.

A week ago my niche blog was sitting pretty at #11. Today it's at #471. Woohoo!!

Just thought I'd share the experience with you guys. Building quality backlinks the right way is awesome. Trying to shortcut the process can end disasterously.

Much Success,

KateD

P.S. Just so everyone knows, I did NO OTHER marketing with that niche blog during the past couple of weeks. The automated backlinking must have been the cause for the drastic change in my rankings.

Hi,

I agree with you that automatic backlink building is not the best way to go.
Do you mind telling me what the software was?

I would give it a few days to see where you end up.
Doing the Dance right now.

Please report back in a few days.
Would like to know what happend.
If you stay at that position, I will give you a free tip to get it back where it belongs or even higher

So please, wait a few days and then tell us.

Regards,

Mike

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BeachCruzer

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Mikedb

Hi,

I agree with you that automatic backlink building is not the best way to go.
Do you mind telling me what the software was?

I would give it a few days to see where you end up.
Doing the Dance right now.

Please report back in a few days.
Would like to know what happened.
If you stay at that position, I will give you a free tip to get it back where it belongs or even higher

So please, wait a few days and then tell us.

Regards,

Mike

Yes, it seems logical that you're experiencing the Google Dance. I do hand-submission backlinking and notice that I move around quite a bit. I usually rank #2 most days of the week but once in a while I will be on page 2 or even 3 but I always tend to return within a day or two.

I suspect giving it a little time, you may see better results.

Nonetheless, the best of luck--

Michael Cruz

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Brad Gosse

15 years ago

We have all made this mistake. I need to send some of my automation hungry students to this thread.

I was #1-2 for a term that got me 250k daily visitors and I bought a text link and everything went south for a whole year

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Carl-Reed

15 years ago

Hi Kate, what type of sites were your links being created on?

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adamv

15 years ago

If that tool is really capable of sending your site from #11 to #471 just use it to nuke all of your competitors.

I'm sorry to hear about your drop in rankings but I don't believe it is so easy to bury a site like that. It would be far to easy to sabotage all of your competitors. Keep building links, wait a while, and I bet your site will come back higher.

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thecableguy

15 years ago

Originally Posted by adamv

If that tool is really capable of sending your site from #11 to #471 just use it to nuke all of your competitors.

I'm sorry to hear about your drop in rankings but I don't believe it is so easy to bury a site like that. It would be far to easy to sabotage all of your competitors. Keep building links, wait a while, and I bet your site will come back hire.

I agree that using off page factors it would be to easy to sabotage competitors, but that seems to conflict with those that say don't build backlinks to fast. Yet I've seen sites with obscene numbers in backlinks get Google top rankings. Could it be that by using automated backling tools (not services) you're leaving something for the searchengines to pickup on? Several autoblogging products mention using a robots.txt to block the searchengines.

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ShaneRQR

15 years ago

Originally Posted by adamv

If that tool is really capable of sending your site from #11 to #471 just use it to nuke all of your competitors.

I'm sorry to hear about your drop in rankings but I don't believe it is so easy to bury a site like that. It would be far to easy to sabotage all of your competitors. Keep building links, wait a while, and I bet your site will come back hire.

^ This.

If there's a software/service that can effectively shoot down sites from the SERP and do so without much effort, the SEO game is about to change.

Now, it'll all be about who can shoot down the competition at the highest rate. Think about the possibilities in less-competitive niche-markets! So easy to rank if all you have to do is drop a handful of competing pages.
:p

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Mark Blaze

15 years ago

WOW i want it!

If it can build 3000 backlinks fast then i want it... what was it called?

All you have to do is point them to an authority site with backlinks and it won't make any difference to your own site at all... in fact it will help it rank higher and higher!

Mark Blaze

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squadron

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Mark Blaze

WOW i want it!

If it can build 3000 backlinks fast then i want it... what was it called?

All you have to do is point them to an authority site with backlinks and it won't make any difference to your own site at all... in fact it will help it rank higher and higher!

Mark Blaze

I suspect it is this online tool: IMTalk.org - IMT Website Submitter

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Ron Douglas

15 years ago

You should have created the automated links for the 10 sites ahead of you instead of your own. LOL

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John Romaine

15 years ago

I wonder if this proves that Google is intelligent enough to differentiate between "natural backlinking" as opposed to "automated backlinking"

I guess it does... *shrug

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syncjam

15 years ago

Sorry - are backlinks the same as linkwheels?

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Whosyou

15 years ago

I am seriouly considering some competitor sabotage by getting some really dodgy links to their sites. has anyone tried this?

Any tips for a budding sabatour!

Thanks
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John Romaine

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Whosyou

I am seriouly considering some competitor sabotage by getting some really dodgy links to their sites. has anyone tried this?

Any tips for a budding sabatour!

Oh yeah sure. You want to perform an SEO attack on various websites on the net, for your own advantage and youre asking us for tips???

Dude, c'mon. :rolleyes:

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Heidi White

15 years ago

Originally Posted by ramone_johnny

Oh yeah sure. You want to perform an SEO attack on various websites on the net, for your own advantage and youre asking us for tips???

Dude, c'mon. :rolleyes:

Exactly, wrong forum.

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WareTime 15 years ago

Originally Posted by Whosyou

I am seriouly considering some competitor sabotage by getting some really dodgy links to their sites. has anyone tried this?

Any tips for a budding sabatour!

We'd all like to help you out. What is your money site?
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scottallison

15 years ago

I have many link automation tools but I always try tp play safe and make sure that my linking campaigns also have a good portion of manual linking.

I go for slow and quality, not fast and quantity...

Scott

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halfpoint

15 years ago

Kate,

Just about any time you build an excess amount of backlinks your site will jump up and down the rankings and if you keep going with it you'll probably find that it'll come back ranking higher than it initially was.

If it was really possible to just build a huge amount of backlinks to screw a site over and make it lose it's ranking, search engine rankings would be a joke.

I have tools capable of creating tens of thousands of links a day, as do many other people, so if incoming links truly could have a negative effect then no one would be able to hold a decent ranking due to sabotage.

Automation is completely fine when it comes to building links. What's more important than quantity is consistency. It doesn't matter if you're building 1 link a day or 1000, just make sure you're consistent.

Additionally, don't be discouraged when your site "dances" and drops into obscurity after building links. In my experience this is usually a good thing as your site will often come back stronger as a result.

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jimmyab

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Pat Jackson

Kate,

Just about any time you build an excess amount of backlinks your site will jump up and down the rankings and if you keep going with it you'll probably find that it'll come back ranking higher than it initially was.

If it was really possible to just build a huge amount of backlinks to screw a site over and make it lose it's ranking, search engine rankings would be a joke.

I have tools capable of creating tens of thousands of links a day, as do many other people, so if incoming links truly could have a negative effect then no one would be able to hold a decent ranking due to sabotage.

Automation is completely fine when it comes to building links. What's more important than quantity is consistency. It doesn't matter if you're building 1 link a day or 1000, just make sure you're consistent.

Additionally, don't be discouraged when your site "dances" and drops into obscurity after building links. In my experience this is usually a good thing as your site will often come back stronger as a result.

Very interesting - thanks Pat.

Ive been using backlink software and driving traffic to Hubpages. Very effective but do tend to see a bit of bouncing around. Thought I may have overlinked (if thats possible) so pulled back, but am encouraged to see that 'consistency' is the trick.

Will get back into it.

Thanks again

James

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Ron Douglas

15 years ago

Seriously though, I don't think it was the software you were using. It was most likely the surge in links all at once to one page that looked unnatural and raised a red flag. Especially for an unestablished site.

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AverageGuy

15 years ago

if it is true, then simply use it for your competitor's site. will it kick your competitor off the first page? possibly, it will not. otherwise, it will be a huge problem for SE ranking.

I would say what you saw is possibly a ranking dance. wait for some time, it could be days or weeks, your site will be back in the ranking. at least, it happened to some of my sites.

david

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nikolaaa

15 years ago

Kate,

What happened to you SERP is that you got in sandbox.
You built too much links in short time without having good "base" for it.
Don't worry - you will come back in some time (week to 3 months).

It would work if you already had big number of backlinks and if domain is older.

If site is new you should make this kind of backlinks over other sites that point to your main site:
- first build properties on high PR sites (blogger,vox...) and link to your site from them
- then use that software for automated links and promote those properties

On that way you are safe and pages with your links are getting more points, so their link to your site has higher value.

But as I said - don't worry.
Just continue working on your site, adding new content and building more links.

Nikola

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TheRichJerksNet

15 years ago

Originally Posted by nikolaaa

Kate,

What happened to you SERP is that you got in sandbox.
You built too much links in short time without having good "base" for it.

This is nothing but BS ... You can not build links too fast and this has been proven... Sandbox my eye, I wish people would stop with this myth.

I do not care if it is a brand new site, you can build 1,000 links in an hour and it not hurt you. Has nothing to do with age of domain name, what you think the spiders check your registration ?? No they do not.

Anyone can release a brand new site and send out a press release and bookmark that site to 100 bookmarking sites, post articles on 100 article directories, build hubpages and squidoo lens, and post videos on the top video sharing sites.. All in the same day and it will not hurt them one single bit.

They would build thousands of links in this one day and have nice listings ..

James

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nikolaaa

15 years ago

Originally Posted by TheRichJerksNet

Has nothing to do with age of domain name, what you think the spiders check your registration ?? No they do not.

I don't agree.
Spiders don't check registration date of domain, but see when site was first time indexed (10 years ago or yesterday).

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TheRichJerksNet

15 years ago

Originally Posted by nikolaaa

I don't agree.
Spiders don't check registration date of domain, but see when site was first time indexed (10 years ago or yesterday).

That is not age of domain.. Domain could be 10 years old and just indexed last month. Sorry but the age crap is a myth, they do not check the registration of said domain.

James

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JohnMcCabe

15 years ago

Originally Posted by TheRichJerksNet

Seriously I wish people would use the brains that God gave them .. It's common sense that building links will not hurt you and there is no such this as "NATURAL" link building..

Sorry to all those that try to push your backlink service by saying "NATURAL" but fact is and yes I said fact is ... No search engine can tell if a link is "NATURAL" or not. They have no idea when it was posted, how it was posted and who posted it.

James

James, I can meet you about halfway on this one.

Once a link is fixed on a page or in a database, when it's rendered on a page, it's just a link.

I would put forth a different definition for "natural linking" that makes more sense to me.

Natural linking, to me, is a buildup over time of links to any given page, using varying anchor text (including the actual page url), from related pages or sites with related themes.

I would find it completely natural for a new site to acquire a large number of links from directories, RSS aggregators, and so on, and to do so in a very short time. It would be completely natural for a series of articles to appear in a large number of article directories with links back to the related page, using the same anchor text and/or url in each instance of a single article.

What I would find unnatural would be hundreds or thousands of links popping up in profiles or blog comments on totally unrelated sites.

Spiders may be stupid, but the people who build them are not. I'm sure they are aware that automation tools exist, and that they are used by people who are not out to game the system as well as those who are.

So it devolves back to execution and inferred intent, as it usually does.

One can use a carving knife to turn a piece of wood into a work of art or a pile of kindling. It's the same knife and the same wood in either case. The difference lies in the skill and intent of the carver...

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TheRichJerksNet

15 years ago

I very much agree John ... Thanks.. The thing that gets me is many preach natural link building as in only do 15 or 20 submissions every few days, make sure you do it slow, and etc ... It is this kind of mislead thinking that ends up costing people.

James

Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe

James, I can meet you about halfway on this one.

Once a link is fixed on a page or in a database, when it's rendered on a page, it's just a link.

I would put forth a different definition for "natural linking" that makes more sense to me.

Natural linking, to me, is a buildup over time of links to any given page, using varying anchor text (including the actual page url), from related pages or sites with related themes.

I would find it completely natural for a new site to acquire a large number of links from directories, RSS aggregators, and so on, and to do so in a very short time. It would be completely natural for a series of articles to appear in a large number of article directories with links back to the related page, using the same anchor text and/or url in each instance of a single article.

What I would find unnatural would be hundreds or thousands of links popping up in profiles or blog comments on totally unrelated sites.

Spiders may be stupid, but the people who build them are not. I'm sure they are aware that automation tools exist, and that they are used by people who are not out to game the system as well as those who are.

So it devolves back to execution and inferred intent, as it usually does.

One can use a carving knife to turn a piece of wood into a work of art or a pile of kindling. It's the same knife and the same wood in either case. The difference lies in the skill and intent of the carver...

Thanks
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WPExpert

15 years ago

Originally Posted by TheRichJerksNet

I very much agree John ... Thanks.. The thing that gets me is many preach natural link building as in only do 15 or 20 submissions every few days, make sure you do it slow, and etc ... It is this kind of mislead thinking that ends up costing people.
James

I think you're right. There's more crap talked about SEO in general and linking in particular than almost anything else. Almost everyone thinks that Google's out to get them because they didn't do what some old school duffer told them to. Not so.

Anyway, link-dexing, as I call it, is not exactly 'white hat' SEO.

I don't do any 'black hat' stuff that would get me in trouble with the law (at least not knowingly), and I never will, no matter how great the potential gain. Life is too short and too much fun to take that kind of risk.

But I do what others probably call 'gray hat', I suppose, or 'gaming the search engines'. And link-dexing probably falls into that category, which is why I imagine some folks are so overly concerned with getting caught out by Google.

To me, trying to do 'white hat' SEO, according to Google's rules, is rather like trying to conduct a war and play by the enemy's rules, when you already know your enemy has no intention of doing the same.

My view is, in SEO, there are no rules. There is only what works, and what doesn't work. And that can change niche by niche, site by site.

The common problem that we all have though is that Google has 70%-80% of the search traffic and 98% of all business that's done off Google SERPs comes from Google's page #1 results. And as Google's algorithm currently favors high authority sites and rewards high PR sites with high placings in the SERPs, and on page #1 in particular, if you're not there, you're just nowhere, business-wise.

And due to the high noise to signal ratio these days, getting there (page #1), can only partly be achieved by the traditional methods of SEO without either excessively high budgets and/or incredibly long time scales, depending on the niche. Neither of which fits the business plans or pockets of most Internet Marketers and affiliates, of course.

Its really hard for a small business to get even a look-in. All the good domain names are pretty much gone and all the good keywords are highly contested. But there is a way.

To create many thousands, sometimes, of the necessary back-links which will bring the Google link-juice to any site I am promoting, in order that it gets a high page rank, I have about 75 SEO traffic techniques and methods of which I use about 35 on a regular basis.

But there is one method which currently stands head and shoulders above all the rest, and that is something is what I call "link-dexing", i.e. link-building from my own high PR backbone of social media, bookmarking, blog sites and RSS feeds.

Believe me. It works.

Terence.

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halfpoint

15 years ago

Originally Posted by PubDirLtd

I don't do any 'black hat' stuff that would get me in trouble with the law (at least not knowingly), and I never will, no matter how great the potential gain. Life is too short and too much fun to take that kind of risk.

But I do what others probably call 'gray hat', I suppose, or 'gaming the search engines'.

This pretty much sums up how I approach SEO, also.

So long as I'm not breaking the law or sabotaging someone else's business I'll go get links by any means possible (With some exceptions).

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TheRichJerksNet

15 years ago

Originally Posted by PubDirLtd

I think you're right. There's more crap talked about SEO in general and linking in particular than almost anything else. Almost everyone thinks that Google's out to get them because they didn't do what some old school duffer told them to. Not so.

Anyway, link-dexing, as I call it, is not exactly 'white hat' SEO.

I don't do any 'black hat' stuff that would get me in trouble with the law (at least not knowingly), and I never will, no matter how great the potential gain. Life is too short and too much fun to take that kind of risk.

I agree .. as long as I am not doing anything illegal - I build backlinks anyway possible, I do not profile spam or anything. I actually participate in many of the sites I have my links on (if they offer that ability).

It is perfectly normal to get thousands of links in a few hours and use no blackhat methods at all ..

@John yes I also agree .. I really do not do much of any blog commenting but I can agree that 1,000's of blog comments per day would seem kind of fishy.

There are many sites I do manually such as twitter, stumbleupon, faves, propeller, and etc ... I use no automation on these sites at all.

James

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JohnMcCabe

15 years ago

Originally Posted by TheRichJerksNet

I very much agree John ... Thanks.. The thing that gets me is many preach natural link building as in only do 15 or 20 submissions every few days, make sure you do it slow, and etc ... It is this kind of mislead thinking that ends up costing people.

James

I do think there are linking methods that still lend themselves to the slow and steady approach. Things like:

> Blog commenting - even with automation tools for finding suitable blogs, the average human being can only do so many intelligent comments per hour. So spidering along and finding 5,000 blog comments all date-stamped for the same day by the same entity smells fishy and might be a footprint worth investigating.

> Forum posting - same argument. A natural human, even with the best tools, can only do so much at a time and come up with quality results.

> Ditto for profile spamming.

On the other hand, some methods quite naturally lend themselves to automation. Things like:

> Directory submissions
> Blog pinging
> Article distribution

The process of submitting this type of content is purely mechanical, so perfect for software automation. It would be quite reasonable to expect hundreds or even thousands of links with the same origin and date stamp in the index.

I would also think that getting multiple links from certain kinds of sites (bookmarking sites, article directories, blog comments) would be the natural result of ongoing link building and relationship building. Far more natural than single links from thousands of properties in a single burst.

I guess my approach is to combine automation where it inherently makes sense to me, along with manual link building where that approach makes more sense...

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pks1967

15 years ago

Originally Posted by TheRichJerksNet

This is nothing but BS ... You can not build links too fast and this has been proven... Sandbox my eye, I wish people would stop with this myth.

I do not care if it is a brand new site, you can build 1,000 links in an hour and it not hurt you. Has nothing to do with age of domain name, what you think the spiders check your registration ?? No they do not.

Anyone can release a brand new site and send out a press release and bookmark that site to 100 bookmarking sites, post articles on 100 article directories, build hubpages and squidoo lens, and post videos on the top video sharing sites.. All in the same day and it will not hurt them one single bit.

They would build thousands of links in this one day and have nice listings ..

James

James,

I have been a full time affiliate marketer for over five years now. I have built many websites. Every time I build a large number of links to a site in one day, it seems my website always drops for a while. Just the other day, I got a bunch of pr3 links to a site I was number 11 in google for. The day after I got the links up I was nowhere to be found. What do you think may be causing that, if you don't believe it was the new links?

Thanks,

Brad

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4morereferrals

15 years ago

You've added new info about your site to the index - google's algo is assessing where those changes should make you rank. [ is my theory ]

#11 site ... was it NEW? How old?

Originally Posted by pks1967

James,

I have been a full time affiliate marketer for over five years now. I have built many websites. Every time I build a large number of links to a site in one day, it seems my website always drops for a while. Just the other day, I got a bunch of pr3 links to a site I was number 11 in google for. The day after I got the links up I was nowhere to be found. What do you think may be causing that, if you don't believe it was the new links?

Thanks,

Brad

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pks1967

15 years ago

Originally Posted by 4morereferrals

You've added new info about your site to the index - google's algo is assessing where those changes should make you rank. [ is my theory ]

#11 site ... was it NEW? How old?

I built the site six years ago.

Update: I'm not even in the top 400 for the three word keyword term I used to have #11 for. I'm not too worried though, as I think I'll see it again in another few days or so. If not, I've got other websites to promote. I'm sitll in google's index though. I'm number one for my own domain name.

Brad

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xops

15 years ago

I know what you're going through. This happens to me all the time. I don't mean sometimes, I mean every time. Like clockwork, I can pay someone to build me 100 or 200 links by any method you can imagine and every single time my site drops several pages or drops out for several days. It has always come back though.

Some of my sites are five and six years old, if that really does matter. If I just let them sit, they maintain their same rank in google. As soon as I send a lot of backlinks to them, boom, they drop like a rock. Maybe it's because I just leave the sites sit and then every now and then, drop a bunch of links on them. I don't know. People keep saying that if the site is old, you can send lots of links without a problem. I have found this not true, at least in my case.

If 1,000 people tell me it's not true, I have my own personal experience to go by. I don't know why it happens, but it does. Others may not have it happen to them, so they are 100% certain that I am wrong, just like I believe them to be mistaken.

How could it happen to someone all the time and others none of the time. I sure wish I knew

That's what makes SEO so hard. It seems that so many people have different results with different methods. Is google and it's spiders really as smart or as dumb as some think? Who knows.

I have an established site 2-1/2 years old. My personal experience has been the same as pks1967. I keep reading on WF that it's not supposed to happen but my experience says otherwise.

Usually my rank changes come in increments of 30, so for instance my site will be at 28, then 58 then 88 after building backlinks. Then over time, usually a month if I don't do anything, it will jump back to where it was. I've been keeping a daily log to see what might be causing the wild rank fluctuations. I'm convinced that whenever I try to build backlinks, I trigger some kind of automatic G penalty. Maybe it's niche related?

I've got some newer sites that I'm starting to experiment with cause sudden drops like I described above directly affect the income from my established site.

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pks1967

15 years ago

Originally Posted by xops

I have an established site 2-1/2 years old. My personal experience has been the same as pks1967. I keep reading on WF that it's not supposed to happen but my experience says otherwise.

Usually my rank changes come in increments of 30, so for instance my site will be at 28, then 58 then 88 after building backlinks. Then over time, usually a month if I don't do anything, it will jump back to where it was. I've been keeping a daily log to see what might be causing the wild rank fluctuations. I'm convinced that whenever I try to build backlinks, I trigger some kind of automatic G penalty. Maybe it's niche related?

I've got some newer sites that I'm starting to experiment with cause sudden drops like I described above directly affect the income from my established site.

It might be niche related. Maybe google has different rules for different types of sites. Maybe "**** berry" is treated differently than "toy trains". Who knows.

Brad

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John7447

15 years ago

I have found that Google has been shaking things up the last 30 days.One of my sites that has been number one for three years dropped to 85 for 2 weeks and then came back.I have noticed sites with very few links and PR turning up on the first page, not for long maybe a week or less. I don't think 200 links would be red flag,just because you add 200 links today does not mean 200 are indexed today, my guess it could take 30 days or longer for them to be indexed.

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petelta

15 years ago

KateD, I am about to send you an PM. I am in a small niche of diabetes as well. Maybe we can cross promote or work something out.

Travis

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KateD

15 years ago

Hey Guys...

Thanks for all of the feedback. It has only been a short amount of time and maybe the site will come back.

I mean, I know it will because I will keep promoting it and building it. And like I said, I stopped after about 200 backlinks created.

I will definitely keep you posted if the site moves again.

KateD

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Mark Blaze

15 years ago

Originally Posted by KateD

Hey Guys...

Thanks for all of the feedback. It has only been a short amount of time and maybe the site will come back.

I mean, I know it will because I will keep promoting it and building it. And like I said, I stopped after about 200 backlinks created.

I will definitely keep you posted if the site moves again.

KateD

Hey Kate,

Sent you a PM but not sure if you got it or not as i really do want to know what this tool is (and no not to shoot down my competitors i have more constructive thing's to do with my time).

Im guessing it's xrumer but not fully convinced!

Mark Blaze

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KateD

15 years ago

UPDATE:

I just checked the ranking again for my niche blog and the keyword phrase I'm targeting.

I'm now sitting at position #661.

I'll keep you guys posted.

KateD

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JonMills

15 years ago

Of course you cant screw with the search engines they are a heck of a lot smarter now days. Plus I can stand spammy backlinkers. No offense but avoid that stuff at all costs its just not worth it.

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Matt Gannon

15 years ago

Iv been backlinking my blog slowly and manually and it went from #5 to #191 , I don't know why but its still first page on yahoo and bing.

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TheRichJerksNet

15 years ago

I'm sorry but it was not the tool that did it .. I have no idea what tool you used but the fact is build a few thousand backlinks will not hurt your ranking. This is a proven fact. I will say it again as I have many times over.

Go do a press release with PrWeb and see dont you get hundreds to thousands of backlinks within hours. This does not hurt your rankings at all, it increases your rankings.

Not to mention there is no program or no system that can track all backlinks, this is impossible. It is also impossible for google or any other bot to be in all places at all times. They would have to monitor billions of websites every single second of every day and they just do not have the ability to do this.

Again no idea what tool you used but saying using automation is dangerous is a false and misleading statement. Most of the time it is the way people abuse the tools.

James

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Olga Schipilow

15 years ago

Hi KateD

Thank you so much for this tip.

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dndoseller

15 years ago

That happened but then the site came back after about 4 weeks.

Who knows what Google is up to sometimes.

My best results are done like this:

1. Search Google for my keyword - like "**** Berry Diet" as an example
2. Look at each result on the first page only for a "links", "Partners" or "Blog roll"
3. Add the site to my own directory.
4. Personally email the Webmaster, show them their site in my directory, ask for a link back.

Keep searching with different variations like "**** Berry Directory", etc. and repeat.

I have gotten about a 25% response rate. BUT you have to have a really nice non-spammy site.

This are my best traffic and incoming PR links.

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jasonmorgan

15 years ago

This is nothing but BS

gotta agree... what we have here is somebody jumping to conclusions and blaming a piece of software.

how long had your site been at #11

SE ranking shifts like this happen all the time.

you don't think all of the black-hatters haven't already thought of this and found that you can't nuke your competitions rankings this way. If this worked I'd be running scrapebox 24 hours a day nuking every site ahead of me.

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TheRichJerksNet

15 years ago

Originally Posted by jasonmorgan

gotta agree... what we have here is somebody jumping to conclusions and blaming a piece of software.

how long had your site been at #11

SE ranking shifts like this happen all the time.

you don't think all of the black-hatters haven't already thought of this and found that you can't nuke your competitions rankings this way. If this worked I'd be running scrapebox 24 hours a day nuking every site ahead of me.

Seriously I wish people would use the brains that God gave them .. It's common sense that building links will not hurt you and there is no such this as "NATURAL" link building..

Sorry to all those that try to push your backlink service by saying "NATURAL" but fact is and yes I said fact is ... No search engine can tell if a link is "NATURAL" or not. They have no idea when it was posted, how it was posted and who posted it.

James

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2 replies

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Tom B

Banned 15 years ago

Originally Posted by TheRichJerksNet

Seriously I wish people would use the brains that God gave them .. It's common sense that building links will not hurt you and there is no such this as "NATURAL" link building..

James

Actually, it isn't common sense to a lot of people. Not everyone knows everything from birth like you do James.

I am waiting to see the word God in your avatar. :rolleyes:

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visit_faraz 15 years ago

Well, I do use automated backlinking tools.

But I have a natural ability which makes it look completely natural to google.
Can you guess what that ability is?

PROCRASTINATION !!

Really! I am serious. sometimes I wait for so long that google would think these are completely natural links
built manually.

Faraz
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DJorge 15 years ago

Hi KateD,

My humble contribution to your question.

It has nothing to do with your massive linking.
It takes time till Google indexes them and this is
more important than quantity of links.

DJ
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claritytech123 14 years ago

Automated submission is not good and it will decrease your search ranking and your site could be penalize on search engines. So try to do manual or quality submissions.

Thanks.
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satrap 12 years ago

Originally Posted by TheRichJerksNet

Seriously I wish people would use the brains that God gave them
James

Love seeing the words "GOD" and "BRAINS" in one sentence reinforcing each other. Its too funny!
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KateD

15 years ago

Originally Posted by jasonmorgan

gotta agree... what we have here is somebody jumping to conclusions and blaming a piece of software.

how long had your site been at #11

SE ranking shifts like this happen all the time.

Trust me. I'm no SEO expert, nor do I pretend to be. I just made an honest observation on the ranking of one of my blogs.

Am I freaking out? Hardly. Just gave my opinion on what happened to my blog. I know that in time, it will come back.

It's just that I had been working at it very slowly and cautiously. The only type of promotion I did for that blog in the last couple of weeks was using the automated backlinking tool.

So I am making the assumption that it was that tool that caused my blog to make such a drastic leap in rankings.

Is it dangerous to my blog today? Yes it is. I was just starting to see the traffic from almost being on page 1.

Is it dangeruous to my blog long term? Well, that depends. I know, I know. It's just the "google dance" and it will settle back down after some time.

But who know how long that will be? A couple of days? A couple of months?

KateD

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djleon1

15 years ago

I always read these threads with interest. None of us know Google's algorithims nor de we know what the heck a google dance is or whatever people want to call it.

If you use automated tools (and god do I) and you blast out say 100 links (or if you use xrumer 5000 links) my experience is that Google doesn't give a rats a@@ about it. Links do not show up instanteously and why would that matter. Think about it - every day there are zillions of new sites put up and some get hundreds of backlinks instantly - say a website dedicated to a upcoming movie is put up every movie/fanboy site links to it and guess what - the site does not do a "dance".

I have never heard an explanation from somebody explaining why these tools should not be used other than to say "manual is better", "quality is better" etc. Has Google published a "quality" link guide or a "natural" link guide? It just confuses me when people say that "natural" links are better.

So then what explains the so called "google dance" - I have no freaking idea - but I also think nobody else has a actual idea - it would take the testing of thousands of sites using different backlink methods to determine what the heck google was doing (and google would have to promise to not change during the test period). It is hard to draw conclusions from one data point (or a handful of sites).

I have built hundreds of links to new sites in a short (really short) period of time and have not experienced any dance. The sites are on the first page and are still there a year later with very little backlinking work done since the first week (ok almost none) of the site being active.

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whawk57

15 years ago

Originally Posted by djleon1

I have built hundreds of links to new sites in a short (really short) period of time and have not experienced any dance. The sites are on the first page and are still there a year later with very little backlinking work done since the first week (ok almost none) of the site being active.

Read your last sentence again.

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djleon1 15 years ago

Originally Posted by whawk57

Read your last sentence.

I did - care to elaborate?
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sherry_d 15 years ago

Originally Posted by KateD

Am I freaking out?

Yes you are...and immediately jumping to some unproven conclusion. And honestly the best advise I ever got from this forum was to stop checking your rankings daily esp when something like this happens otherwise you are gonna go from freaking out to insane and sooner than you know stop working on the site. In fact if I were you I would continue to be consistant and keep building those backlinks.
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Magpieguy 15 years ago

Thanks for the post Kate. I'm a newbie and trying to get to grips with all this stuff. Have been looking into these link builders and after reading a few comments from more experienced IMers I think I'll still give it a go. Great discussion anyway, Guy
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whawk57

15 years ago

This happened to me 3 times in 6 months. No need to back link anymore its going out of trend. On the contrary lesser backlinks with shoot you up to the top. Better wash off all those dirty backlinks . I am much better off without backlinking. Just let it be natural. hahahha.

Peace

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Fraggler

15 years ago

3000 links? It sounds like one of the tools that submits your site to all of the whois directories online. Your site will pop-up in a few weeks time. Don't be too concerned. Assuming it is this tool, the links won't pass much authority to your site but the tool does help get you indexed fast. The page your link will appear on isn't going to be a bad link neighborhood so she'll be apples in a few weeks.

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zoobie

15 years ago

@admav yes I do agree with your opinion. If it is that easy to get your site bury with that software, your competitors will be "dead".

Keep building links with the right way and see what happens.

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jasonmorgan

15 years ago

Your story is changing.

You first posted that you only used the tool once for 200 backlinks and now you've said that it's the only type of promotion you've done over the last couple of weeks.

I don't think you have to worry about the tool.

I think you are experiencing a natural shifting of SE rankings. It happens all the time. I have a site that is playing ping pong at the moment, it drops to the 120's then comes back in the 20's... then drops back to the 70's... then comes back in the teens... then drops down to the 40's... so on and so on... it's playing ping pong with google. I've also had sites that have dropped down to the 500's or 800's for a couple of weeks then bounce back... this stuff just happens.

It could be that your site will bounce back at a higher ranking or it could be that you were receiving that elusive new site ranking bump and now your site has dropped down to where it naturally belongs.

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KateD

15 years ago

Originally Posted by jasonmorgan

Your story is changing.

You first posted that you only used the tool once for 200 backlinks and now you've said that it's the only type of promotion you've done over the last couple of weeks.

No. My story isn't changing. Both of those statements are true:

I did only use the automated backlink tool once (a few days ago).

It has been the only promotion that I have done for this particular blog over the last couple of weeks.

KateD

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Chris Worner

15 years ago

A GOOD handyman NEVER blames his tools.

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TheRichJerksNet

15 years ago

It seriously amazes me how people are so quick to jump and blame automation... Millions of people use automation, DUH!!! Guess what google's spider is automated ..LOL!!

Anyways ... Let's get real, for those of you that talk about this mythical google dance and sandbox or this myth about building links to fast.. You seem to leave many factors out.

* Maybe your competition is building higher quality and more quantity than you are and thus your listing is no longer related and is pushed down.... This is natural and has nothing to do with some dance or sandbox.

* Maybe your onsite seo that some expert told you to do is done wrong. Maybe you are keyword stuffing your sites. Maybe and just maybe a site with better on site seo kicked your butt.

There are so many factors involved that it would be impossible to claim some automation software hurt your listings. Google or nobody else can tell how those links was built. That also is impossible as google does not have access to your personal life, servers, computers, and ect...

Honestly this thread title should be changed because it is false and misleading. There is no danger of using automation... Millions of websites and companies use automation every single day. It's called being smart!

James

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Jeremy Kelsall 15 years ago

More than likely your site is just being "evaluated"...

Your site isn't "gone" - It's not "banned" - It isn't going to slip into the neverworld and never appear again.

More than likely, your site was "stale" with very little or no promotion in the way of backlinks. You started to build some links so Google is evaluating where you site should be.

Give it a bit and it will 99% of the time not only come back, but come back to a better permission.

Manually or automated...what is the difference?

Either way, links are being posted on a site. Do you really think the search engine knows - "oh boy, this person is using XXXXXX software - Time to give their site a slap"....no.
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DogScout

15 years ago

Originally Posted by TheRichJerksNet

Google or nobody else can tell how those links was built. That also is impossible as google does not have access to your personal life, servers, computers, and ect...

James

sometimes I wonder about that. If someone using the Google toolbar was on the site when the link was dropped, Sidewiki could have easily recorded the IP of the link dropper.

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TheRichJerksNet

15 years ago

Originally Posted by DogScout

sometimes I wonder about that. If someone using the Google toolbar was on the site when the link was dropped, Sidewiki could have easily recorded the IP of the link dropper.

Mark,
Sidewiki would have to have actual access to the server logs, which they do not ... Google or nobody else can get access to your server logs because it is illegal. I am sure if google was allowed access you bet your A$$ they would gather the info.

James

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jmarkel

15 years ago

Originally Posted by TheRichJerksNet

Honestly this thread title should be changed because it is false and misleading. There is no danger of using automation... Millions of websites and companies use automation every single day. It's called being smart!

James

There is no danger of using automation? Then how come Google is cracking down on autoblogs? I've read all kinds of comments from people to avoid putting Adsense on Autoblogs because Google will nail you. Autoblogs are automation alley all the way.

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TheRichJerksNet

15 years ago

Originally Posted by jmarkel

There is no danger of using automation? Then how come Google is cracking down on autoblogs? I've read all kinds of comments from people to avoid putting Adsense on Autoblogs because Google will nail you. Autoblogs are automation alley all the way.

This thread is about "AUTOMATED BACKLINKS" not some lame autoblog stuff.. I use no adsense or no auto blogs so I will not comment on them..

James

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Crew Chief

15 years ago

Originally Posted by TheRichJerksNet

It seriously amazes me how people are so quick to jump and blame automation... Millions of people use automation, DUH!!! Guess what google's spider is automated ..LOL!!

Anyways ... Let's get real, for those of you that talk about this mythical google dance and sandbox or this myth about building links to fast.. You seem to leave many factors out.

* Maybe your competition is building higher quality and more quantity than you are and thus your listing is no longer related and is pushed down.... This is natural and has nothing to do with some dance or sandbox.

* Maybe your onsite seo that some expert told you to do is done wrong. Maybe you are keyword stuffing your sites. Maybe and just maybe a site with better on site seo kicked your butt.

There are so many factors involved that it would be impossible to claim some automation software hurt your listings. Google or nobody else can tell how those links was built. That also is impossible as google does not have access to your personal life, servers, computers, and ect...

Honestly this thread title should be changed because it is false and misleading. There is no danger of using automation... Millions of websites and companies use automation every single day. It's called being smart!

James

Well said James!!!

There are so many possibilities here that could have caused the drop in rankings. For example...

*Using automated software that scrapes search engines but the "User" uses the same IP address throughout the entire session. That's a quick way to be classified as a SPAMMER.

*Extreme Keyword stuffing

*Did KateD go back and check to see how many of those automated Backlinks actually stuck?

To say that Automated Backlinking Tools don't work is categorically FALSE! In terms of back linking, ninety-five percent of my backlinking is done with automation and I've never had an issue, NEVER!

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DogScout

15 years ago

I never make any back links. Only outsource them. That way they never are created with my IP. May or may not make a difference, but I am a conspiracy theorist.

Speaking of which I am going to need more back linking done soon James. Those you did for me before took the site from more than 9800 (all Google would show) to page 1.
Thanks
Mark

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Vijay M

15 years ago

Originally Posted by DogScout

I never make any back links. Only outsource them. That way they never are created with my IP. May or may not make a difference, but I am a conspiracy theorist.

Speaking of which I am going to need more back linking done soon James. Those you did for me before took the site from more than 9800 (all Google would show) to page 1.
Thanks
Mark

Mark,
Playing with your conspiracy theory..now that you have come out and declared how you do it,Google's gonna find the sigs in your post...find your other sites(if hosted on the same server) and then penalize them all.

Vijay

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DogScout

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Vijay M

Mark,
Playing with your conspiracy theory..now that you have come out and declared how you do it,Google's gonna find the sigs in your post...find your other sites(if hosted on the same server) and then penalize them all.

Vijay

That's why each one is on a different server.

James: Couldn't resist...

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TheRichJerksNet 15 years ago

LOL ... Yeah it is funny that some can not find anything better to do with their time but to make smart remarks against well respected people just because they are jealous they can not do what someone else does..

I tend to ignore such people although what they post is actually against rule #1...

James

Originally Posted by DogScout

That's why each one is on a different server.

James: Couldn't resist...
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DrewG

15 years ago

My guess: your site is going to come back at a higher spot in the next few days/weeks

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lexilexi

15 years ago

Ah, you should have bought the Link Building Black Book

The search engines are not that smart. Look in the right places and you can see autogenned scraped sites (not blogs) with nonsense content that used Xrumer etc to spam links, sitting at #1 in Google for over a year for their search term..... However, it's really easy for a competitor to file a spam complaint and I think this is the reason most spam sites get taken out. It's really easy to do backlink analysis and it usually takes me about 1 minute to tell whether someone has been link spamming. You game the system too obviously, you give a wide open invite to the person who wants your place in the serps for that choice term. The reason those spam sites are still there is because they rank for nonsense terms that no-one would complain about, not because the Google Algo sees all.
If you post a lot of links really fast, sure, it can leave a red flag - but what also ought to be of the greatest concern is what the software does in terms of varying anchor text, varying the comments that are posted, etc. You say that you only posted 200 links before you shut it off.
Another factor to consider is the quality of what you are linking to. People who are offended by links to obvious marketing content are often pleased by links to thicker content - so you might consider a two (at least) tier system where you have money pages linked to by your own high-value content pages - and then build the links to the high quality content which "advertises" (& pre-sells) your product.
Hopefully your site will bounce back up and it was only a temporary "sandboxing"... but yeah, a blunderbuss does collateral damage.

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JackPowers

15 years ago

Maybe you were logged into a google account while you did it? Seriously, if Google can immediately tell if you are clicking your own ads even from another computer, why shouldn't they be able to spy on what other stuff you are running? All the more reason not to use any of Google's 'free' services.

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TheRichJerksNet

15 years ago

Originally Posted by JackPowers

Maybe you were logged into a google account while you did it? Seriously, if Google can immediately tell if you are clicking your own ads even from another computer, why shouldn't they be able to spy on what other stuff you are running? All the more reason not to use any of Google's 'free' services.

Exactly why I use none of google's evil tools .. No thanks, don't need them. Yes they do track you while logged into their system...

James

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deltafox

15 years ago

Originally Posted by TheRichJerksNet

Exactly why I use none of google's evil tools .. No thanks, don't need them. Yes they do track you while logged into their system...

James

Just to warn everyone, Google has used my own personal information against me (unfairly I might add).

I would agree with the advice to not use too many of Google's services if you want to rank on Google.

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xops

15 years ago

Originally Posted by deltafox

Just to warn everyone, Google has used my own personal information against me (unfairly I might add).

I would agree with the advice to not use too many of Google's services if you want to rank on Google.

Just to add to my previous comment, my partner who programs our site has G Analytics on our site. I make sure that I'm not logged into any of my G accounts when placing links, but could either of these two be the reason?

@Kate, are you using G analytics?

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GeorgR.

15 years ago

Originally Posted by deltafox

Just to warn everyone, Google has used my own personal information against me (unfairly I might add).

I would agree with the advice to not use too many of Google's services if you want to rank on Google.

what do you mean? Elaborate please.

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futurestrategy

15 years ago

Oh. Thats very bad indeed. Thanks for sharing this info Kate.

I always try to avoid automatic or bots business. I believe only manual backlinking works its best. Now it will be really a very hardwork for you to rank up. But I hope you get the results.

Thanks

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digitalstar

15 years ago

sorry to see what happend.. and Thank you for sharing your experience and alerting all of us. Just giving URL and auto submitting same to many sites proven to be a disaster.

I too heard that when we submit to many sites like this there is possibility of losing position and again we get it back at much higher position.

Let us hope your site gets back on 1st page shortly..

Wish you all the Best

Thank You
Sridhar

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WPExpert

15 years ago

Originally Posted by KateD

I'd like to share a mistake I made this week. It involves using an automated backlink program, and the negative effect that it caused me.

No Kate, the mistake(s) you made was jumping to a false conclusion about the speed with which Google could even begin to take some interest in a few hundred links, and then you posted your fears in here without researching them, and as a result you have ended up needlessly worrying some equally (as yet) uninformed folks, so that they think what you are saying is correct. Its not.

What you are experiencing is just 'Google dance'. This is SEO we're talking here. Not PPC. It takes some time, weeks or months even, for back-links to be indexed and for Google to be able to give you some link-love, but when Google sees them, before it can work out what it all means in context of everything else they have indexed, it gives you a ranking based on authority and immediacy, and then it all settles down.

It all settles down, I suppose, unless your competitors have back-link robots and are building links every night, while you worry yourself into inactivity...

Typically your site will come back even stronger in the SERPS. You'll see.

Must go now, I have to go start another robot back-link run. The wee man does one or two runs every night for one of my sites or another, and I easily add 300 links a week or more to each...

Terence.

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KateD

15 years ago

UPDATE: My site is now sitting at position #481.

As a side note, I'm not showing up at all in Yahoo's search results (not under 1000 results anyway). But I'm at spot #23 for Bing.

Much Success,

KateD

P.S. And just for the RichJerk, I modified the title of this thread. It's not a statement anymore, but instead it is a question.

Thanks
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TheRichJerksNet

15 years ago

Thank you Kate ... I just hate to mislead others into thinking that building links to fast or using automation is a bad thing ...

James

Originally Posted by KateD

UPDATE: My site is now sitting at position #481.

As a side note, I'm not showing up at all in Yahoo's search results (not under 1000 results anyway). But I'm at spot #23 for Bing.

Much Success,

KateD

P.S. And just for the RichJerk, I modified the title of this thread. It's not a statement anymore, but instead it is a question.

Thanks
1 reply

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mojo13

15 years ago

Originally Posted by TheRichJerksNet

Thank you Kate ... I just hate to mislead others into thinking that building links to fast or using automation is a bad thing ...

James

Yeah.. especially when you make your living selling backlink services...

Wow, she just seems to be trying to show what happened to her and she gets flamed by the "backlink experts"

Thanks
2 replies

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halfpoint

15 years ago

Originally Posted by mojo13

Wow, she just seems to be trying to show what happened to her and she gets flamed by the "backlink experts"

It's not that at all.

Making blanket statements without any definitive proof causes more harm than good to unsuspecting people who will read the post and not know any better.

[ 2 ] Thanks
1 reply

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cryptone24

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Pat Jackson

It's not that at all.

Making blanket statements without any definitive proof causes more harm than good to unsuspecting people who will read the post and not know any better.

I cannot agree with you more. How can any of us really know for sure what goes with Google or any other search engine when the rules seem to be constantly changing.

People like myself come on here to find the truth is its hampered when allot of folks, albeit good intentioned, make general statements without a disclaimer or something that says "this is their experience" or "its their opinion". (not the author of this thread)

Maybe James can address this abuse by coming out back linking eBook of some sort to dispel some of the myths perpetuated in here, so that newbies like myself would not waste a thousand man hours doing needless tasks.

I'll would gladly pay for that.

Thanks

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TheRichJerksNet

15 years ago

Originally Posted by mojo13

Yeah.. especially when you make your living selling backlink services...

Wow, she just seems to be trying to show what happened to her and she gets flamed by the "backlink experts"

I don't make my living selling backlink services ... LOL!!!!

James

Thanks

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GeorgR.

15 years ago

You need to give it more time, after some number of new links there's always a phase of google dancing..it could very well be that your site might reappear in a few days again.

i am using automated tools also, but i use them rather to find related blogs.

"Bad neighborhoods" are bad, for both in-linking and out-linking..and you certainly dont want to run a tool and spam 1000s of links to any trash/p0rn/pharma/spammer site out there. IF you do this then only to a intermediary "buffer" site (like a blogger or something) which links to your site, but not to your money site.

Dont worry....now just get some GOOD links....and hope the site will come up again soon.

Thanks

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-Jericho-

15 years ago

This same thing happened to me but I wasn't using automated bots for links. I actually was just backlinking myself but got a little over zealous. I went from page 1 to page 15. What I was told was to ignore it and just keep backlinking. I also sent in a request to Google to reconsider my site or whatever the option is and within 2 weeks I was back to my original spot.

The other thing you need to remember is all of those links may not have even been crawled yet and this could just be a case of the Google dance.

If Google sandboxed or de-listed sites for doing this then it would be so easy to hire some guy using xrumer and have him blast your competition. It's not as cut and dry as everyone makes it sound.

I've talked to people who go in with the express purpose of trying to get a site sand boxed by creating too many links to see what happens. From what he told me he has not had one site de-indexed yet. I'm not that ballsy and try to make it look as natural as possible.

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veeco

15 years ago

3000 site... r u using ksoft software. this software did submit to 3000 whois site.. its not harm my site(yet)and even half of the backlink are from china site

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CorporatePuppet

15 years ago

I love these threads. Everyone wants to change the other's mind. Never understood that...

This quote fits this thread (and every other one like it that pops up year after year) - "Never interrupt your enemy when he's making a mistake"

Thanks
1 reply

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4morereferrals

15 years ago

Kudos to you ch3712 - thats a delicious quote .... consider it stolen!

Originally Posted by ch3712

I love these threads. Everyone wants to change the other's mind. Never understood that...

This quote fits this thread (and every other one like it that pops up year after year) - "Never interrupt your enemy when he's making a mistake"

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backlinkgurus

15 years ago

Welcome to google. What you've explained is 100% natural and probably in no way related to the 200 + links you've created in one day. Rather than pointing the finger at the software, take some time to research a bit more on SERP activity.

Also, for a term that only gets ~7500 searches per month, you sure are putting your heart and soul into this thing. For that little amount of traffic I say it's hardly worth the headache.

Thanks
1 reply

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TheRichJerksNet

15 years ago

Originally Posted by backlinkgurus

Also, for a term that only gets ~7500 searches per month, you sure are putting your heart and soul into this thing. For that little amount of traffic I say it's hardly worth the headache.

I disagree ... Any and all traffic is worth it, maybe and just maybe 1 of those searching that keyword could be your next $1,000 customer.. Still think it is a waste of time ???

Target anything and everything.. I normally go after huge competition because I love it.. but I also have keywords I rank for that only have 500 searches a month.. Every little bit helps.

James

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KateD

15 years ago

Hey Guys,

I'm totally surprised by how negative some of the comments have been. I have close to 15 niche blogs, the fact that one dropped is more of a curiosity than anything else.

To say that I am "freaking out" is false. You obviously don't know me.

I just made an observation. Sure, a hundred things could have affected my rankings. However, I only did one thing (using the automated backlink tool) recently, and I was speculating how that was the cause.

Am I running around screaming, "the sky is falling, the sky is falling" like Chicken Little? No.

So please stop trying to make this more dramatic than it is.

Here's what happened:

1. My blog was ranking well
2. I used an automated backlinking tool
3. Shortly afterwards my blog sank down
4. I threw out the question/assumption that it was using the automated backlink tool that was the cause of my drop

The only assumption that I was "wrong" on was how lasting the drop in my blog was. I made the assumption that it was because Google was "punishing" the blog for too many poor quality backlinks created too quickly.

Now, I'm thinking that it is a temporary change (since there was a change in my blog) as Google figures out where my blog "should" be.

So please stop correcting me. Actually, please read the entire thread before trying to "educate" me.

I've already learned the lesson. Thanks anyway though.

KateD

P.S. My niche blog is now at position #617

Thanks
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xops 15 years ago

I've done some manual backlinking of one of my sites (mostly profile links, some others) and noticed rank drops like Kate mentions. Usually the ranks drop in increments of approximately 30. So I started cross referencing my linking activities with my ranking changes in a log.

I did some linking in early January, about 20 sites. On January 4, a few days after placing links, my ranking sank by 30 positions on the three keywords I was using for anchor text. I didn't do anything else for the last month. After watching ranks for a month, behold, all the ranks came right back to where they were on February 4 for the same three keywords.

I think this is more than a coincidence. Maybe I'm doing something wrong but IMO Google is on to it whenever I try it.

I've been lurking in this forum for over a year trying to understand the best way to improve my site's ranking. It's over two year old domain and getting decent traffic.

I've thought about using automated software, but Kate's story only reinforces what I've documented in my own experience.

So, I'm open to any suggestions as to why this is happening. I've never used any automated tools, just all manual.
- Thanks
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cballi

15 years ago

Originally Posted by KateD

Hey Guys,

I'm totally surprised by how negative some of the comments have been. I have close to 15 niche blogs, the fact that one dropped is more of a curiosity than anything else.

Hi Kate,

Sorry, some of the comments did seem a bit aggressive for what you were saying.

I have also experienced a site drop after an large influx of links. I guess it's just Google reevaluating. Eventually the site comes back up, although I have one site that continually makes it to the first page of big G and then drop out again. That site is over a year old.

Not that I am an expert or anything, just personal experience. I find linkbuilding a bit of an enigma so I don't worry too much anymore and just go for it.

Keep us updated on your rankings.

Thanks

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pks1967

15 years ago

Originally Posted by KateD

Hey Guys,

I'm totally surprised by how negative some of the comments have been. I have close to 15 niche blogs, the fact that one dropped is more of a curiosity than anything else.

To say that I am "freaking out" is false. You obviously don't know me.

I just made an observation. Sure, a hundred things could have affected my rankings. However, I only did one thing (using the automated backlink tool) recently, and I was speculating how that was the cause.

Am I running around screaming, "the sky is falling, the sky is falling" like Chicken Little? No.

So please stop trying to make this more dramatic than it is.

Here's what happened:

1. My blog was ranking well
2. I used an automated backlinking tool
3. Shortly afterwards my blog sank down
4. I threw out the question/assumption that it was using the automated backlink tool that was the cause of my drop

The only assumption that I was "wrong" on was how lasting the drop in my blog was. I made the assumption that it was because Google was "punishing" the blog for too many poor quality backlinks created too quickly.

Now, I'm thinking that it is a temporary change (since there was a change in my blog) as Google figures out where my blog "should" be.

So please stop correcting me. Actually, please read the entire thread before trying to "educate" me.

I've already learned the lesson. Thanks anyway though.

KateD

P.S. My niche blog is now at position #617

Kate,

I know what you're going through. This happens to me all the time. I don't mean sometimes, I mean every time. Like clockwork, I can pay someone to build me 100 or 200 links by any method you can imagine and every single time my site drops several pages or drops out for several days. It has always come back though.

Some of my sites are five and six years old, if that really does matter. If I just let them sit, they maintain their same rank in google. As soon as I send a lot of backlinks to them, boom, they drop like a rock. Maybe it's because I just leave the sites sit and then every now and then, drop a bunch of links on them. I don't know. People keep saying that if the site is old, you can send lots of links without a problem. I have found this not true, at least in my case.

If 1,000 people tell me it's not true, I have my own personal experience to go by. I don't know why it happens, but it does. Others may not have it happen to them, so they are 100% certain that I am wrong, just like I believe them to be mistaken.

How could it happen to someone all the time and others none of the time. I sure wish I knew

That's what makes SEO so hard. It seems that so many people have different results with different methods. Is google and it's spiders really as smart or as dumb as some think? Who knows.

Good luck with your website. I wish you the best of success.

Brad

[ 1 ] Thanks

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billionareHuman

15 years ago

KateD did you build your with the exact same phrase? That's the best way to get your site penalized!

you should be varying it up. If your automation tool can vary your anchor texts then do it and you'll see your rankings come back

Thanks

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moodykitty

15 years ago

just my opinion but I don't think creating too many backlinks at once is the problem. I think possibly it's the way you set the links up, do they look like spam? This is a total guess but if you're using a really weird user name (one that looks spammy) for a profile link for example and you're doing it for a bunch of links at once maybe Google caught on to it.

Maybe you linked to a few bad sites?

Also depends on how your home page is set up, I know this from experience. Once I removed affiliate links from my home page my site shot up to the top. Of course there are other factors as well, age of site being an important one.

Something else that has NOT worked for me and has caused 2 of my sites to drop from rankings is using automated feeds or duplicate content to my site, but I really think that depends on the niche you're in too.
I would think diabetes has some pretty strong authority competitors out there.

Let us know how it goes.

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KateD

15 years ago

Hey Guys,

I have decided to "experiment" further with this particular niche blog. Since it's flucuating wildly in it's Google's search engine ranking (it's up around 700 last time I checked)...

...and since many of you guys don't think that automated backlinking is a bad thing, I have decided to have the software generate all 3000 backlinks for me.

The software took a few hours to process through all of the available sites, but when it was done, it stated that 3,103 backlinks were generated.

Obviously most of these won't be noticed by Google immediately. But let's just see what happens.

I'll keep you guys posted.

KateD

Thanks
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billionareHuman 15 years ago

The software took a few hours to process through all of the available sites, but when it was done, it stated that 3,103 backlinks were generated.

Is that with the exact same phrase linking back to you? Or did you vary it, don't be suprised if you site never shows up again if you didnt' vary it
- Thanks
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jasonmorgan

15 years ago

Is that with the exact same phrase linking back to you? Or did you vary it, don't be suprised if you site never shows up again if you didnt' vary it

and you can back up this claim?

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Pacman131

15 years ago

I sure wouldn't use them, that's for sure. To risky!

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billionareHuman

15 years ago

Is that with the exact same phrase linking back to you? Or did you vary it, don't be suprised if you site never shows up again if you didnt' vary it

and you can back up this claim?

I'm not trying to throw random statements around, this is what I have experienced from over 5 years of SEO and link building work. I have had sites thrown out for months and I've been able to bring them back after in depth research. It's also logical. Google knows all the anchor texts pointing to your site right? If they are ALL the same this is not natural and does not look like humans linked to you.

Ever heard of Google Bombing? research and read. It's very logical as to why a site will be thrown out for having nearly 100% of links with the exact same anchor, especially new sites.

Take it or leave it I did warn you.

I do not agree with the 2 many links 2 quickly theory however, I've never seen any site get thrown out because of this, espcially since I vary the anchor texts. On top of that if you build 3000 forum links at once, Google will not index them all in 1 day anyway, it could take months to get them all indexed and some won't be indexed ever.

Thanks

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KateD

15 years ago

Hey Guys...

I did a little more ressearch on the automated backlinking tool. Basically what it does is register your URL at certain sites that allow it. Someone previously mentioned a "whois" type registry, which I believe that this software dows.

So there are no anchor text/keyword phrases that I can use. All I am doing is leaving my active link (just your regular url) to the homepage of the niche blog.

How strong (and for the matter, how permanent) these backlinks are is not known to me. Yesterday I went ahead and let the program run all the way through. I'll update you with how the ranking goes.

But I just wanted to address that becuase of the multiple mentions of me promoting a keyword phrase too much.

No keyword phrases. Just my domain name.

Much Success,

KateD

P.S. In my case, the domain name for my niche blog is the exact keyword phrase that I am targeting.

Thanks
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clickwise

15 years ago

Originally Posted by KateD

Hey Guys...

I did a little more ressearch on the automated backlinking tool. Basically what it does is register your URL at certain sites that allow it. Someone previously mentioned a "whois" type registry, which I believe that this software dows.

So there are no anchor text/keyword phrases that I can use. All I am doing is leaving my active link (just your regular url) to the homepage of the niche blog.

How strong (and for the matter, how permanent) these backlinks are is not known to me. Yesterday I went ahead and let the program run all the way through. I'll update you with how the ranking goes.

But I just wanted to address that becuase of the multiple mentions of me promoting a keyword phrase too much.

No keyword phrases. Just my domain name.

Much Success,

KateD

P.S. In my case, the domain name for my niche blog is the exact keyword phrase that I am targeting.

Heads up, bookmarkwiz has a feature that does this on 100+ websites called QuickIndex.

PM me for affiliate link of you need support. Otherwise just purchase of bookmarkwiz.com

Thanks
1 reply

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KateD 15 years ago

Originally Posted by clickwise

PM me for affiliate link of you need support. Otherwise just purchase of bookmarkwiz.com

PM me for an affiliate link? Nice one.

KateD
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- TheRichJerksNet 15 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by KateD
  
  PM me for an affiliate link? Nice one.
  
  KateD
  
  Yep here comes the self promoters and spammers that add no value at all to the thread.... How lame...
  
  James
  
  Thanks
  
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- King Shiloh Banned 15 years ago
  
  KateD,
  
  I have really learnt something from your mistake.
  
  Truly, nothing good comes easy. There's no shortcut to success.
  
  Just rinse and repeat what you did before that got you to #11.
  
  And don't ignore what Yusuf told you - add fresh content to the site regularly, at least 3 - 5 times weekly.
  
  Thanks
  
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nouseforaname

15 years ago

Ok, nice one Kate! BTW, are you talking about the tool that auto send your site to;

Code:

www.cubestat.com/yourdomain.com
www.websiteoutlook.com/yourdomain.com
www.websitevaluecalculator.com/yourdomain.com
www.mywebsiteworth.com/yourdomain.com

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KateD

15 years ago

Originally Posted by nouseforaname

Ok, nice one Kate! BTW, are you talking about the tool that auto send your site to;

Code:

www.cubestat.com/yourdomain.com
www.websiteoutlook.com/yourdomain.com
www.websitevaluecalculator.com/yourdomain.com
www.mywebsiteworth.com/yourdomain.com

You know, I'm not sure. Like I said, it's over 3,000 sites and I haven't personally checked to see if these sites are included.

However, the format is similar (www.theirwebsite.com/www.mywebsite.com).

KateD

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eduprograms

15 years ago

Computers are designed on the basis of human psychology. All the algorithms designed for the Google are based on the Humanic Nature. Using the tool for the submission would let you for the spamming. And it could really put your website the way for the spamming.

Thanks

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KateD

15 years ago

UPDATE: My niche blog continues the do the Google Dance...but this time upwards in the rankings.

Yesterday my niche blog was ranked at nearly 700 in Google's search engine result for my main keyword phrases (and again, my domain name is my exact keyword phrase).

Today it's ranked at #460. Quite a jump.

Now before anyone "corrects" me, I know that checking rankings every day doesn't really mean much. Sites should be changing all the time as they change and Google's algorithms change. I totally understand that.

That being said, it's still interesting to see how this blog will change in rank due to using the automated backlink tool (which after my initial 200 backlinks were created, I went back a couple of days ago and did the complete list of 3000+ backlinks).

I hope some of you enjoy this thread and find value in it.

KateD

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cryptone24

15 years ago

I guess when it comes to Google, expect anything and be prepared to do the Lambada. Putting on those shoes and start doing it is really the only way to have a chance.

Thanks Kate and hopefully the upward trend continues for the permanent.

Also it would be interesting to see where your site is in Bing and Yahoo, to see if this is just normal search engine jumps. Seems to me (and in my opinion) that is takes time for a new site to settle, and by keep adding and improving it tells the engines that its just not a flash in the pan.

Thanks

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wheven

15 years ago

I too would suggest that this is observer error, I think it is the google dance. Give it time to correct itself.

Thanks

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UBotBuddy

15 years ago

If nothing else KateD post the software that you are using. DANG! I am getting tired of reading the same negative crap from people. This software is apparently dynamite and I want to research it further.

BTW, I to worked a blog up from nothing to #25 and it dropped as well to 900 something but it did return and leveled off at #12. So hang in there.

Thanks

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zenaire

15 years ago

Me too sorry for your loss and thanks for sharing your experience with us..I was thinking of using something like that last month...Now I will never think of using such tools. And lets hope for the best..may be you can regain your blogs position back..

Thanks
1 reply

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KateD

15 years ago

Originally Posted by restless

oo thanks a lot i thought that auto back links was good but after reading this i will never do it again

Originally Posted by zenaire

Me too sorry for your loss and thanks for sharing your experience with us..I was thinking of using something like that last month...Now I will never think of using such tools. And lets hope for the best..may be you can regain your blogs position back..

Hey Guys...

I'm not telling people NOT to use automated backlinking tools. I'm just sharing my personal experince with using one and how it has temporarily affected my blog's ranking.

I was ranked at #11. Today I'm ranked at.......drumroll please.....#461.

Which, believe me, is a happy surprise. When I checked yesterday, my blog was NOT EVEN IN THE TOP 1000 RESULTS!

So the dance continues........

KateD

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Mike Anthony

15 years ago

Originally Posted by KateD

Hey Guys...

I'm not telling people NOT to use automated backlinking tools. I'm just sharing my personal experince with using one and how it has temporarily affected my blog's ranking.

Kate I don't find a thing wrong with you posting what you did or drawing the conclusion that you did. Many people have reported similar results after a heavy backlink campaign.

Like some have said it can't be as simple as too many backlinks because it would be too easy to sabotage a site. Thing is though even if you were to blast a competitor with backlinks he would still have his own he had before. So he would still have variety.

Lots of people reporting this have either new sites or sites that really hadn't solidified at the top of the results. Personally I don't think Google really cares two cents about those sites and if it identifies spammy links (not merely the quantity) then I have no problem imagining they would put the new or low previous reputation site in "time out". Same as google dance to some but maybe not because these sites seem to disappear from any reasonable rank for longer.

Who knows but the idea that Google has nothing to fight any kind of link spam to me is verly unlikely.

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AnnieSh

15 years ago

Links from automated tools is harmful to a website's ranking. SERP will decrease gradually. Google is not a fool, it will come to know the ways that how we are making links. Always follow manual link-building.

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KateD

15 years ago

Originally Posted by AnnieSh

Links from automated tools is harmful to a website's ranking. SERP will decrease gradually. Google is not a fool, it will come to know the ways that how we are making links. Always follow manual link-building.

Hi..

I hear what you are saying. But here's something to consider:

Backlinks are not noticed by Google immediately after they are created. So if I create 1000 active links back to my blog today, not all of them will be seen by Google right away.

They won't see 1000 links being created at once. Through their bots crawling around the web, they'll find handfuls of them each day.

My blog is a perfect example. Although I "created" 3000+ backlinks, only a handful of them have been seen by Google so far.

KateD

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Yusuf

15 years ago

KateD have you been adding content to your site daily since it has dropped from #11?

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Mike Anthony 15 years ago

Originally Posted by Yusuf

KateD have you been adding content to your site daily since it has dropped from #11?

Yusof . Great question. Content content can be overlooked when running a link building campaign but I recently moved a page form the 80s to the top ten doing nothing more than adding content (part of a successful test on a new domain).
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KateD 15 years ago

Originally Posted by Yusuf

KateD have you been adding content to your site daily since it has dropped from #11?

No. I haven't added any new content since then.

KateD

P.S. I just checked my blog's ranking. It's at #641 as of 2 minutes ago.
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Tom Goodwin

15 years ago

Hi Kate--
I'm a bit late to this party, but

(1) I have little doubt that this is just the effect of google absorbing your links. I have had drastic google jumps before, and *every single time* my site comes back stronger than before.

(2) the worst thing you can do is stop backlinking when your site jumps back in the SERPs. People take their foot off the pedal which is wrong, IMHO.

(3) if it was this easy to "ding" a site in Google., I would simply do this to all of my competitors and I would be #1 in Google overnight.

Tom

Originally Posted by KateD

Hello All,

I'd like to share a mistake I made this week. It involves using an automated backlink program, and the negative effect that it caused me.

Here's what happened:

I have been working for months on a blog in the diabetes niche (I don't mind sharing the niche because I tend to focus on very targeted subniches within a larger niche - still good search volume, much less competition).

Anyway, this niche blog is based around a single keyword phrase. This phrase gets about 250 daily searches, and has competition around 200,000 (more than I usually tackle, but the first page of Google looked manageable).

After proper backlinking and article marketing, I had gotten the blog to the #11 spot in Google's search engine results.

I was one spot away from the first page, and I was just starting to see traffic from it.

I thought that if I got a few more backlinks, that I'd crack the top ten, and then I'd slowly work my way up the first page.

But then I made a critical mistake.

I came across this "backlinking" tool that was suppose to automate the backlinking process.

All I had to do was enter my domain name, and the software would automatically build links on about 3,000 sites.

3,000 backlinks would definitely help, right? No. Not the way I did it anyway.

After about 200 backlinks being created, my inner IMer started to shout at me to shut the program off, which I did. But it was too late.

The very next day my site disappeared completely from Google's search engine results. And it was gone until today.

A week ago my niche blog was sitting pretty at #11. Today it's at #471. Woohoo!!

Just thought I'd share the experience with you guys. Building quality backlinks the right way is awesome. Trying to shortcut the process can end disasterously.

Much Success,

KateD

P.S. Just so everyone knows, I did NO OTHER marketing with that niche blog during the past couple of weeks. The automated backlinking must have been the cause for the drastic change in my rankings.

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kerunai

15 years ago

the links is considered 'spam links' or 'slinks'

example : if you join the comment baclinks, you will see that majority is spamming there ... and google will surely take on that fast

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Tom Goodwin

15 years ago

Originally Posted by kerunai

the links is considered 'spam links' or 'slinks'

example : if you join the comment baclinks, you will see that majority is spamming there ... and google will surely take on that fast

Um, no. Google won't "penalize" you for the links or anything of that sort. this place is turning into digital point.

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tjcocker

15 years ago

Dear lord KateD, look what you did! You have a knack for drawing out the crazies and idiots.

My idiotic 2 cents is this: Maybe you've diluted your rankings by having so many links without anchor text? I have no proof or divine knowledge to back this up, just a theory.

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Mike Anthony

15 years ago

Originally Posted by tjcocker

My idiotic 2 cents is this: Maybe you've diluted your rankings by having so many links without anchor text? I have no proof or divine knowledge to back this up, just a theory.

Whats the theory? How does non anchor text links dilute your anchor text links?

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tjcocker

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Whats the theory? How does non anchor text links dilute your anchor text links?

That's the whole theory, for her problem. I'm just throwing out random possibilities to think about. I'm not saying it's right...

I don't know, maybe while Google is sorting through her new links she's temporarily ranked lower in order to determine the value of the links, maybe as a whole, and how she should be ranked, a butterfly flaps its' wings, and then some magical stuff happens, blitzo, bam-zing... and the theory breaks down from there.

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KateD

15 years ago

Originally Posted by tjcocker

That's the whole theory, for her problem. I'm just throwing out random possibilities to think about. I'm not saying it's right...

I don't know, maybe while Google is sorting through her new links she's temporarily ranked lower in order to determine the value of the links, maybe as a whole, and how she should be ranked, a butterfly flaps its' wings, and then some magical stuff happens, blitzo, bam-zing... and the theory breaks down from there.

Hi.....

Actually, it isn't really a "problem". Not anymore, anyway. Not as far as I can tell.

Basically, my blog was at #11, I used a automated software to add my link to a bunch of statistics site (that encourage people to leave direct, non-anchor text links).

From that point forward, my blog has been moving all over the place. Some days I can't find it in the top 1000 results. Just doing the Google dance. No worries.

As of right now, my blog is ranked at #484.

KateD

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dedicated 15 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Whats the theory? How does non anchor text links dilute your anchor text links?

I've never heard of this anchor text dilution thing. Sure, it's a theory, but sounds implausible and I haven't seen any indication of this before.
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- tjcocker 15 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by dedicated
  
  I've never heard of this anchor text dilution thing. Sure, it's a theory, but sounds implausible and I haven't seen any indication of this before.
  
  LOL... I didn't expect the Spanish Inquisition. Yes, it was probably a bad theory, but at I least I have them from time to time. One of these days I'll luck into something big, maybe, possibly. :p
  
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KateD

15 years ago

MAJOR UPDATE:

You guys are not going to believe this. I was just checking the stats of my small (but growing) portfolio of niche blogs when I noticed that I had gotten some traffic to my diabetes niche blog.

Now, ever since I started this thread, this blog had been doing the "Google dance" between the 400s and 600s (if it was even listed at all).

The traffic that it got totally surprised me and so I checked it's ranking. Guess where my blog's at?

As of five minutes ago, my niche blog is at #12.

It's back, baby. Crazy. Lot's of good lessons learned by following it's movement.

Will it maintain this ranking? Who knows. I'll keep you guys posted.

Much Success,

KateD

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xops

15 years ago

So to summarize:

On 2/4/2010 your blog was ranked at #11 and you used

automated software to add my link to a bunch of statistics site (that encourage people to leave direct, non-anchor text links.
Immediately thereafter your blog ranking dropped drastically. Presumably any organic traffic from Google for your keyword also plummeted.
On 2/25/2010 your blog ranked at #12.

And the lesson to be learned from this is .... ???

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KateD

15 years ago

Originally Posted by xops

So to summarize:

On 2/4/2010 your blog was ranked at #11 and you used
Immediately thereafter your blog ranking dropped drastically. Presumably any organic traffic from Google for your keyword also plummeted.
On 2/25/2010 your blog ranked at #12.

And the lesson to be learned from this is .... ???

The lesson learned is not to freak out just because your site/blog is moving through the rankings. This was the "Google dance" in action.

KateD

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Mike Anthony 15 years ago

Originally Posted by KateD

The lesson learned is not to freak out just because your site/blog is moving through the rankings. This was the "Google dance" in action.

KateD

He's saying your site is still lower than when you started out. There is no lesson to learn form this - YET. That depends on where the site goes from her but the automated route so far has done nothing but bad for you. You can recover is the only present take away.
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Bagless 15 years ago

Originally Posted by KateD

The lesson learned is not to freak out just because your site/blog is moving through the rankings. This was the "Google dance" in action.

KateD

That is easier said than done, it takes a lot to stay calm when your site has disappeared overnight.

As a relatively newcomer to SEO, the comments in this thread illustrate the uncertaintly about how good or, indeed, harmful certain backlinking methods might be. I for one am totally confused.
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4morereferrals 15 years ago

Another lesson to learn is - that new sites OFTEN times end up artificially higher in the index than they should be when they first go live and get into the index. This is many times referred to as - Query Deserves Freshness or QDF.

If you were to do nothing to that site - it likely would have dropped like a rock as well - to its rightful spot. A lot of folks are so proud and happy about their new sites getting into the index initially so high ... it has to be those evil backlinks - not your on page seo or other competitors having more favored content or - dare I say it - tons more backlinks than you! - that makes your site plummet after the QDF wears off.

200 backlinks wouldn't likely even be noticed by Google for weeks anyhow. They dont all index at once. Ive had several sites drop, one - 1 year old and established totally off the top 1000 - no-where to be seen - for 3.5 - 4 weeks. Hit it pretty good with about 2 -3 posts on 350 WPMU's. Then it went bye bye - and yes I was a little wigged out by that.

Today its bouncing between 2-5 - Page #1 - so yeah ... it happens.

Ive read nor seen any empirical - actionable evidence that automated anything caused your SERP plummet.

Raise your hand if you want to immolate the term "Google Dance" from the planets vocabulary?

Originally Posted by KateD

The lesson learned is not to freak out just because your site/blog is moving through the rankings. This was the "Google dance" in action.

KateD
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TheRichJerksNet

15 years ago

Great to hear Kate....

But one question that leaves me wondering... You went ahead and did the 3,000+ submission but yet you still ended up at about the same position you started... :confused::confused:

I am all up for testing, I love to test stuff ..

Mind sharing with me what software it was that you used ?? Kind of surprised it did not increase your ranking unless you are targeting a very competitive keyword.

You can PM me the info if you wish not to post it ...

James

Originally Posted by KateD

MAJOR UPDATE:

You guys are not going to believe this. I was just checking the stats of my small (but growing) portfolio of niche blogs when I noticed that I had gotten some traffic to my diabetes niche blog.

Now, ever since I started this thread, this blog had been doing the "Google dance" between the 400s and 600s (if it was even listed at all).

The traffic that it got totally surprised me and so I checked it's ranking. Guess where my blog's at?

As of five minutes ago, my niche blog is at #12.

It's back, baby. Crazy. Lot's of good lessons learned by following it's movement.

Will it maintain this ranking? Who knows. I'll keep you guys posted.

Much Success,

KateD

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HaplinJ

15 years ago

dang, I will never use any sort of tool like that. Anything worth doing is going to take some effort

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sadekjake

15 years ago

I have seen this argument a lot. Whether automatic backlinking is harmful or not.

But one very important point is that this will enable people to do reverrse optimisation. A tool which can harm a site can come to a lot of great uses too. I mean if I know that it harms the position, I would be highly enticed to do the same linkbuilding for some of my competitors, making them rank lower.

However, this is not possible. I also think your site is going though a Google dance. You should wait a few more days to record the effects.

Additionally, I also should add that links created by automatic tools (particularly those which create thousands of links) usually fail to get indexed fast (most of them), and are not likely to provide you a fast result (both positive or negative).

Lastly, there a lot of good tools in the market, and the general rule of thumb is to subscribe to those which can create less in amount, but high in quality. Most of the best tools involve some manual works to do at some part of the process (as most of the good sites require captcha at least), and you should look for those.

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TheRichJerksNet

15 years ago

Maybe it would be good to read the entire thread before posting ...

And no links created by auto means do not get indexed slower, this is false as the search engines have no idea how links was built...

James

Originally Posted by sadekjake

I have seen this argument a lot. Whether automatic backlinking is harmful or not.

But one very important point is that this will enable people to do reverrse optimisation. A tool which can harm a site can come to a lot of great uses too. I mean if I know that it harms the position, I would be highly enticed to do the same linkbuilding for some of my competitors, making them rank lower.

However, this is not possible. I also think your site is going though a Google dance. You should wait a few more days to record the effects.

Additionally, I also should add that links created by automatic tools (particularly those which create thousands of links) usually fail to get indexed fast (most of them), and are not likely to provide you a fast result (both positive or negative).

Lastly, there a lot of good tools in the market, and the general rule of thumb is to subscribe to those which can create less in amount, but high in quality. Most of the best tools involve some manual works to do at some part of the process (as most of the good sites require captcha at least), and you should look for those.

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jls2505

15 years ago

Hi - Can I ask a question on this thread please from a different angle. I just happened to look at my site in the search engine box like so site:my domain name, and three of the pages have got this after my domain name mailer/ioncube/9969988/57477/66100.html and then it shows that page as having obscene, filthy language. These files on are not on my server and therefore I want to know how to get them off and how they got there is the first place. When you press the link it goes to a "404 not found" however I am still worried as this could ruin me in days. Any ideas / help please? Many thanks

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JohnMcCabe

15 years ago

Originally Posted by jls2505

Hi - Can I ask a question on this thread please from a different angle. I just happened to look at my site in the search engine box like so site:my domain name, and three of the pages have got this after my domain name mailer/ioncube/9969988/57477/66100.html and then it shows that page as having obscene, filthy language. These files on are not on my server and therefore I want to know how to get them off and how they got there is the first place. When you press the link it goes to a "404 not found" however I am still worried as this could ruin me in days. Any ideas / help please? Many thanks

Ioncube is a php encryption program. Most of the time it is used to encrypt and protect proprietary code. In this case, it looks like it's being used to mask a redirect.

In short, it looks like you've been hacked. I'm just guessing, but it's likely the hacker is using your site to send out porn spam.

Contact your hosting company immediately, if not sooner.

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jls2505

15 years ago

Many thanks for this - we have already had the hacked files removed from the server but how do I remove it from the google search results ? Many thanks in advance for any advice...

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JohnMcCabe

15 years ago

Originally Posted by jls2505

Many thanks for this - we have already had the hacked files removed from the server but how do I remove it from the google search results ? Many thanks in advance for any advice...

One thing you could try is submitting a new site map via Google webmaster tools. If memory serves, there's also a section that allows you to remove pages from the index. Worth a look, anyway...

Otherwise, it may just take time until the results update again and the pages drop from the index.

EDIT: I just had another idea. Could you set up temporary redirects so that anyone going to that page gets an explanation rather than the obscenities? Then resubmit as suggested above?

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jls2505 15 years ago

Hi John

Many many thanks for this info - i have done just that with Google webmaster tools and have a status pending for their removal. Horrific experience and so glad you were there!
Kind Regards, JLS
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thebarksmeow

15 years ago

This is a great thread.... even with some of the negativity.

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itsallwhite

15 years ago

I haven't tried the auto-backlinking tools, but almost did and from reading this glad i didnt. but i while back I used an SEO company to do some major link building on a site of mine - it got down from the top 20 to the top 200 and stayed their for about two weeks, then it can back to number 9 and has stayed their since.

With Google et all you need patience (alot of it) and some luck! hope your rankings return ASAP

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firstdandy

15 years ago

Maybe sometime It's just google dance. Have You check again recently? Sorry I guess It's quite old thread.

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KateD

15 years ago

Originally Posted by firstdandy

Maybe sometime It's just google dance. Have You check again recently? Sorry I guess It's quite old thread.

Hi...

Yes, I do believe that it was just the Google dance.

However, my niche blog NEVER got back to its original position of #11. It did get to position #12 for a couple of days, but then moved on from there.

Right now the niche blog is ranked #274.

I haven't touched the blog at all. But again, it NEVER got back to its original spot.

KateD

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halfpoint

15 years ago

Originally Posted by KateD

I haven't touched the blog at all. But again, it NEVER got back to its original spot.

And maybe that's why? If you don't continue to build links to how do you expect it to get back to where it was?

It could simply mean that in the interim when you haven't been doing anything with it all of your competition has been and as such, in Google's eyes your site isn't as popular as it was.

Keep being consistent in your link building and it will go back to where it was, and probably ranking even higher.

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pks1967

15 years ago

Wow, I just sunk another one of my sites. Here's a little update for the people following this thread.

Site #1. Six years old. Usually around the bottom of page one or the top of page two for a three word keyword phrase. Now totally gone for over a week. Still in the google index though.

Site #2. Five years old. Usually between position 8 and 15 for a two word keyword phrase for quite a while now. Now, nowhere to be found, but still indexed.

I have not done anything to these sites except: Buy thousands of backlinks to them over the last couple of weeks. That's it. Nothing else.

I don't really care if it's called the google dance, sandbox or whatever. It does happen. I don't see how people can say it doesn't. Maybe it doesn't happen to them and just some of us. Why would that be. I have no idea.

All I do know is that in the past, my sites have always come back in a week or two when I've done smaller amounts of backlinking on my own. but I've never added this many backlinks at one time before. Maybe it'll be a lot longer this time. I sure hope not.

Here's the kicker, I still have several thousand backlinks I've ordered pointing to these two sites that are just being worked on.

I think from now on, I'll just be pointing the links to my web 2.0 sites that point to these sites. I've heard that this will work. I've already ordered several thousand links to some ezine articles and web 2.0 sites I have.

Oh well, live and learn. I'll just have to wait and see what happens. Hopefully, when my sites do show up again, they'll be in a higher position than they used to be.

Even though I've been doing IM for quite a few years full time, I've still got more to learn about SEO. I used to get all my traffic from adwords until google put the screws to me, like they did to so many of us affiliates.

The only option I have is to just throw a lot of hours and hard work at the problem and learn all I can on the Warriors Forum.

Good luck everyone. I hope you are doing better than I am. Which should be pretty easy to do, at this point.

Brad

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4morereferrals

15 years ago

Brad,

I dont think anyone is saying it doesnt happen. I think they're saying it does ... but not because you used some evil automation that google doesnt like.

The thread initially discussed automated linking as a DANGER.

Is a PR release an evil automated backlinking strategy? A good one with the right efforts can and often times does "automatically" generate 1,000's of backlinks over nite. Is there some sort of evil nefarious activity associated with the content syndication networks of large news syndicates?

Anyhow ... it does happen often. Maybe its best to get that over and out of the way sooner rather than later?

I think your idea of using web 2 like properties to shield your site[s] and direct/focus the link juice and pr that 1,000's of links can generate is a good idea.

You add a level of complexity to your site portfolio and hte need to backlink far more urls - but having 10-20 other pages with PR of 3-5 all pointing to your main $$$ page is a good thing.

If you threw 2,000 questionable or even good links divided in 4ths at 8 pages :

250 Vox

250 wordpress.com

250 livejournal

250 blogger

250 multiply

and so on ....

instead of your money page directly, - those 8 pages could be PR2-4 at next pr update. If you repeated that a few times with new sites to link from they might bump a PR point or two at the next update.

Put 1 or two links out to your $$$ pages from these Vox/Blogger/LiveJ sites and and to a trusted high authority other domain - Bing perhaps. So now you have 8 PR3-4 sites solidly propping up your $$$ pages.

Rinse - repeat with another 8 solid web 2.0 domains ... [ theres tons of em do a search here ]

Originally Posted by pks1967

Wow, I just sunk another one of my sites. Here's a little update for the people following this thread.

Site #1. Six years old. Usually around the bottom of page one or the top of page two for a three word keyword phrase. Now totally gone for over a week. Still in the google index though.

Site #2. Five years old. Usually between position 8 and 15 for a two word keyword phrase for quite a while now. Now, nowhere to be found, but still indexed.

I have not done anything to these sites except: Buy thousands of backlinks to them over the last couple of weeks. That's it. Nothing else.

I don't really care if it's called the google dance, sandbox or whatever. It does happen. I don't see how people can say it doesn't. Maybe it doesn't happen to them and just some of us. Why would that be. I have no idea.

All I do know is that in the past, my sites have always come back in a week or two when I've done smaller amounts of backlinking on my own. but I've never added this many backlinks at one time before. Maybe it'll be a lot longer this time. I sure hope not.

Here's the kicker, I still have several thousand backlinks I've ordered pointing to these two sites that are just being worked on.

I think from now on, I'll just be pointing the links to my web 2.0 sites that point to these sites. I've heard that this will work. I've already ordered several thousand links to some ezine articles and web 2.0 sites I have.

Oh well, live and learn. I'll just have to wait and see what happens. Hopefully, when my sites do show up again, they'll be in a higher position than they used to be.

Even though I've been doing IM for quite a few years full time, I've still got more to learn about SEO. I used to get all my traffic from adwords until google put the screws to me, like they did to so many of us affiliates.

The only option I have is to just throw a lot of hours and hard work at the problem and learn all I can on the Warriors Forum.

Good luck everyone. I hope you are doing better than I am. Which should be pretty easy to do, at this point.

Brad

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pks1967

15 years ago

Originally Posted by 4morereferrals

Brad,

I dont think anyone is saying it doesnt happen. I think they're saying it does ... but not because you used some evil automation that google doesnt like.

The thread initially discussed automated linking as a DANGER.

Is a PR release an evil automated backlinking strategy? A good one with the right efforts can and often times does "automatically" generate 1,000's of backlinks over nite. Is there some sort of evil nefarious activity associated with the content syndication networks of large news syndicates?

Anyhow ... it does happen often. Maybe its best to get that over and out of the way sooner rather than later?

I think your idea of using web 2 like properties to shield your site[s] and direct/focus the link juice and pr that 1,000's of links can generate is a good idea.

You add a level of complexity to your site portfolio and hte need to backlink far more urls - but having 10-20 other pages with PR of 3-5 all pointing to your main $$$ page is a good thing.

If you threw 2,000 questionable or even good links divided in 4ths at 8 pages :

250 Vox

250 wordpress.com

250 livejournal

250 blogger

250 multiply

and so on ....

instead of your money page directly, - those 8 pages could be PR2-4 at next pr update. If you repeated that a few times with new sites to link from they might bump a PR point or two at the next update.

Put 1 or two links out to your $$$ pages from these Vox/Blogger/LiveJ sites and and to a trusted high authority other domain - Bing perhaps. So now you have 8 PR3-4 sites solidly propping up your $$$ pages.

Rinse - repeat with another 8 solid web 2.0 domains ... [ theres tons of em do a search here ]

No, I'm not saying any automated system is bad. I just bought a nice 125 site press release in the WSO area to a different site. That didn't hurt my ranking for that site at all.

I'm just saying that when I blasted thousands of links to my own website, I experienced the problem with my other two sites. Things are going bad for me lately and I really can't afford to have any of my links gone from google for too long of a time. The only other traffic I am getting are from several articles I wrote. Which is very good targeted traffic.

I think the links to the web 2.0 sites will work out OK for me. I'm going to ping them all and wait and see what happens.

P.S. I don't understand what you meant about Bing. Could you expand on that a bit.

Thanks for your reply,

Brad

Thanks
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4morereferrals

15 years ago

Originally Posted by pks1967

P.S. I don't understand what you meant about Bing. Could you expand on that a bit.

Thanks for your reply,

Brad

Sure thing ...

If the only outbound links coming off your 8 web 2.0 properties are solely to your $$$ pages - that may not be optimum. There is a theory that seemed plausible ... i have no scientific data and stats to back it up - but ... it indicated that if you also have an outbound link to a highly trusted authority domain on the same pages as your outbound links to your $$$ pages ... it puts the links to your $$$ pages in a "good neighborhood" context.

You wouldnt want to dilute the link power / juice etc with too many other outbound links - so I said maybe you link to Bing.com or cnn.com or some big name high powered authority site?

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pks1967

15 years ago

Originally Posted by 4morereferrals

Sure thing ...

If the only outbound links coming off your 8 web 2.0 properties are solely to your $$$ pages - that may not be optimum. There is a theory that seemed plausible ... i have no scientific data and stats to back it up - but ... it indicated that if you also have an outbound link to a highly trusted authority domain on the same pages as your outbound links to your $$$ pages ... it puts the links to your $$$ pages in a "good neighborhood" context.

You wouldnt want to dilute the link power / juice etc with too many other outbound links - so I said maybe you link to Bing.com or cnn.com or some big name high powered authority site?

Thanks. Might it be best to link to a trusted site in my own niche. I have an article posted on an authority site in my niche. Maybe I could link to that article. Then I can have the link to the trusted site but I still might get something out of it.

Brad

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Mike Anthony

15 years ago

Originally Posted by 4morereferrals

t ... it indicated that if you also have an outbound link to a highly trusted authority domain on the same pages as your outbound links to your $$$ pages ... it puts the links to your $$$ pages in a "good neighborhood" context.

Good suggestion. Out bound links do in fact affect SEO

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Mike Anthony

15 years ago

Originally Posted by 4morereferrals

Is a PR release an evil automated backlinking strategy? A good one with the right efforts can and often times does "automatically" generate 1,000's of backlinks over nite. Is there some sort of evil nefarious activity associated with the content syndication networks of large news syndicates?

Horse of an entirely different color. The potential problem with automation tools is not necessarily the automation itself but the kind of sites you must target to get that automation.

Eg. Forum backlinks, blog commenting etc.

It takes no Harvard degree to figure out that 2000 backlinks from forum profiles with nothing else is link spam in google's eyes. Same goes for 700 comment links from wordpress blogs. Total automation leaves LARGE footprints for Google and anyone else to see.

Theres enough of these observation every week for me to take them seriously. There are too many variables in SEO to claim that these don't show a danger in automating low quality links. However it may very well not be the links by themselves but the site itself and the quality score of the page since its also apparent it doesn't affect everyone. (I'm sure you are right too in regard to QDF. Thats part of the equation as well.)

For example with the recent adwords banning its pretty clear Google is very active with their quality algorithm applied to landing pages. Lets say you do those 2000 backlinks in a week using forum links and then your site comes up heavy for affiliate links and /or what would be considered low quality for an adwords page. Could that trigger an effect that some of us with better pages or more diversity not see.

200 plus factors if you believe Google. One size probably doesn't fit all scenarios.

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Kevin Reynolds

15 years ago

Thanks Steve,
Great information for those of us just coming up to speed on backlinks.

I bought Backlink Goldmine to try it and learn more. At $.7, it is crazy...at $7 is is still an amazing deal.

Thanks
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4morereferrals

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Kevin Reynolds

Thanks Steve,
Great information for those of us just coming up to speed on backlinks.

I bought Backlink Goldmine to try it and learn more. At $.7, it is crazy...at $7 is is still an amazing deal.

Hey there Kevin,

Thank you .. drop me a line if you need any help ...

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mikkosant

15 years ago

The secret is mixing automation tools so that you can decrease your footprint in google's eyes. Backlink diversity is crucial.

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millerstacy10

Banned 15 years ago

[DELETED]

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4morereferrals

15 years ago

Originally Posted by millerstacy10

We have all made this mistake. I need to send some of my automation hungry students to this thread.

We wont make the mistake of letting a scammer off scott-free. :confused:

Originally Posted by Brad Gosse

We have all made this mistake. I need to send some of my automation hungry students to this thread.

I was #1-2 for a term that got me 250k daily visitors and I bought a text link and everything went south for a whole year

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resiymarko

14 years ago

All you have to do is point them to an authority site with backlinks and it won't construct any dissimilarity to your own site at all... in fact it will help it rank higher and higher!

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ScrapeBoss

14 years ago

Of course there are dangers in using automated backlinking tools. However, the results you get depend on the way you build those backlinks. I like to use ordinary blogger blogs and web 2.0 for the backlinking software. I then link those ones to my main site. That way, my footprints are hidden from the search engines.

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MrDack 14 years ago

Newbie point of view here but just looking at this logically; if an automated and relatively cheap process can quickly knock a site off page #1, why isn't this common practice for eliminating competitors?

Forget about the ethics, this is business.

It's not something I'd be comfortable doing but I find I had to believe that big G's evolving algorithm could be so easily tricked into penalizing a given site based upon a surge in low quality links.
If this were true, then surely it would be more effective (in cost & results) if competitors concentrated on 'taking each other out' rather than trying to out rank each other?
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johnpaul

14 years ago

it happened to me also ... site disappear ... i thought its sandboxed ... then later after few days it came back ... but ranked BADLY

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nik0

Banned 13 years ago

I just did a test with a 1 month old domain that has a 1000 pages (thin affiliate site), blasted it with 100.000 comments, 100.000 xrumer links, 1000 AMR articles (2000 links), 1000 bookmarks, 1000 rss feeds, 1000 pings/meta-index files. All spreaded over 1000 pages. Site is completely de-indexed now

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nik0

Banned 13 years ago

What does work for one page / keyphrase:

- High PR links
- Anchor diversity
- Web2.0 links to keep up with a good ratio of low vs high PR links

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LarryW 13 years ago

While this is an old thread, I found it very useful... I am taking away how important it is to have a diverse source of backlinks. And how to link instead to a Web 2.0 site that has content linking to my main site.

Not clear if the automatically generated backlinks were sent to too many random sites, in unrelated niches? Not mentioned (until just now) was very much about CONTENT being posted, and continued to be posted.
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jinx1221

13 years ago

Things are becoming more and more obvious to google, and Panda is catching these. Its not easy to teach an inherantly dumb machine to do what a human can do with intuition. Anyways, it can now spot poor content, unnatural links (not just quantity wise), etc. You have to be ahead of the game now, not by trying to mass produce links by the thousands, but slowly adding contextual links within high quality content where you can. Slow and steady wins the race!

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bosnis 13 years ago

Can I ask what you are all using to check the movements of your rankings?
Is Market Samurai the best for this??
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YellowGreenMedia

12 years ago

Originally Posted by jinx1221

Things are becoming more and more obvious to google, and Panda is catching these. Its not easy to teach an inherantly dumb machine to do what a human can do with intuition. Anyways, it can now spot poor content, unnatural links (not just quantity wise), etc. You have to be ahead of the game now, not by trying to mass produce links by the thousands, but slowly adding contextual links within high quality content where you can. Slow and steady wins the race!

Where is the proof of that... You people make all kinds of statements but never show any proof... i know for a fact that your wrong... because i have sites with content i have written myself (and as you can see English is not my first language) and is heavily backlinked with AMR and sicksubmitter, and is survived the whole zoo of Google updates...

That is way i say in my other post that people need to do their own testing, don't take my results s truth but certainly don't take anything Matt Cutts says as truth.

If you're serious about SEO, you need to do your testing yourself...

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Maraun

13 years ago

Rank Tracker is good.

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legoog8

12 years ago

well if you just put in the domain name and that's it of course google wont like that,

- if you did this manually you would get exactly the same results (and would take you longer)

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YellowGreenMedia

12 years ago

Originally Posted by KateD

Hello All,

I'd like to share a mistake I made this week. It involves using an automated backlink program, and the negative effect that it caused me.

Here's what happened:

I have been working for months on a blog in the diabetes niche (I don't mind sharing the niche because I tend to focus on very targeted subniches within a larger niche - still good search volume, much less competition).

Anyway, this niche blog is based around a single keyword phrase. This phrase gets about 250 daily searches, and has competition around 200,000 (more than I usually tackle, but the first page of Google looked manageable).

After proper backlinking and article marketing, I had gotten the blog to the #11 spot in Google's search engine results.

I was one spot away from the first page, and I was just starting to see traffic from it.

I thought that if I got a few more backlinks, that I'd crack the top ten, and then I'd slowly work my way up the first page.

But then I made a critical mistake.

I came across this "backlinking" tool that was suppose to automate the backlinking process.

All I had to do was enter my domain name, and the software would automatically build links on about 3,000 sites.

3,000 backlinks would definitely help, right? No. Not the way I did it anyway.

After about 200 backlinks being created, my inner IMer started to shout at me to shut the program off, which I did. But it was too late.

The very next day my site disappeared completely from Google's search engine results. And it was gone until today.

A week ago my niche blog was sitting pretty at #11. Today it's at #471. Woohoo!!

Just thought I'd share the experience with you guys. Building quality backlinks the right way is awesome. Trying to shortcut the process can end disasterously.

Much Success,

KateD

P.S. Just so everyone knows, I did NO OTHER marketing with that niche blog during the past couple of weeks. The automated backlinking must have been the cause for the drastic change in my rankings.

I am sorry for your lost, but i have the feeling that there is more than that your telling us, if it was that easy to deindex websites with a view (you say 200) automated links, you would have seen people using it on their competition...

You people (and you know who you are

) really feel that Google is some-kind of God that can see which links are automated and which not, like Google is looking over your shoulder.... but that isn't so.

And really 3K of backlinks doesn't make your site de-rank, like i sad people would use it on their competition and Google knows that...

But Matt Cutts says something and a lot of you people belief everything he says... he is the Goebels of Google, his job is to misinform you... to spread the Google propaganda and make you scared of getting backlinks....

Do you own test instead of listing to people as Matt Cutts or people like me on message boards, get 10 domains and blast the shit out of it and see what the results are... then you have real knowledge and not the crap Matt and Google is feeding you

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desultory

12 years ago

You should be varying it up. If your automation tool can vary your anchor texts then do it and you'll see your rankings come back

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The Danger of Using Automated Backlinking Tools?

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