Link Building Automatic or Manual? Whats your Option?

StupidCupid

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Jinil Sung

Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by StupidCupid

Automatic but with limitations.. let say not more than 50 links a day

How do you know this limitation? Did you experience any web site de-indexed because of this? If so, any competitors can build up links aggressively to omit any site they want in SERP? Thanks in advance.

Thanks

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StupidCupid

Banned 14 years ago

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ARVolund

14 years ago

There is no spoon.........

I have heard of bigfoot as well......

Heard of it but have not ever experienced it, do not believe in it.

Richard

Originally Posted by StupidCupid

have you heard a term "google sand box"?

Thanks

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StupidCupid

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ARVolund

14 years ago

Is there a number of links that your could drop on a site and trigger a manual review that causes a problem with your site? I am sure there is but that number is way above the kind of numbers we are talking about here. I have dropped as many as 10k links on a site in one day and not had any problems.

What happens is someone puts up a website and because it is new Google thinks maybe it is worth something so it gets a decent ranking while deciding. The person gets all excited and thinks "If I built a lot of links I could be number one" They start building links like crazy and in the meantime Google decides where the site really belongs.

Then what happens is the person blames the link building they did and tells everyone and their brother that if you build links too fast it will kill your site. But really there is no connection. The truth is that their site was way higher than it deserved in the first place. Are they going to believe that? No they are not because their site is special and so much better than those other 100k sites about the same topic. It must be the links.

Of course it is. Yea Right..................................

Any ranking you see for your site in the first three months is smoke. It may stick or it may not. If you get all excited about something you see in the beginning you are just setting yourself up for disappointment.

Another issue is the type of links that you get. I have come to believe over the last six months or so that as links age the gain more power. That same link that you build today will be worth more if it is around six months from now. Getting links that push your rankings up for a bit but then they fall off the page or are deleted will cause your rankings to bounce a lot.

This means that if you are building links that suffer a lot of churn you are going to have issues with keeping your rankings stable.

Blog comments are a good example, you get a bounce from all the comments on these high pr pages and then they either fall off to a back page or are deleted. When that happens your ranking falls as well and you have to do the same thing all over again just to keep even.

OK time to get off my soapbox.

Richard

Originally Posted by StupidCupid

I experienced it but that was last December 2008.. Maybe you're right though

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lexilexi

14 years ago

Originally Posted by ARVolund

I have come to believe over the last six months or so that as links age the gain more power. That same link that you build today will be worth more if it is around six months from now. Getting links that push your rankings up for a bit but then they fall off the page or are deleted will cause your rankings to bounce a lot.

Richard

Pages that link to you may gain more "juice" over time as they acquire more links themselves. There's a "secret" link building tip here - keep track of the pages that you have built links to your site from - and to make sure they get indexed / give you more "link juice", build links to them too!

Thanks
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MervikHaums

14 years ago

Originally Posted by lexilexi

Pages that link to you may gain more "juice" over time as they acquire more links themselves. There's a "secret" link building tip here - keep track of the pages that you have built links to your site from - and to make sure they get indexed / give you more "link juice", build links to them too!

Do you have any particular practices for finding or calculating the apprx. link juice each page can produce? I mean - it's relation between the no. of OBLs and the page PR??

Thanks
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ramirezhenry55 14 years ago

I think manual submission to quality sites is very important. This will be given more weight than automated submissions.
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- ARVolund 14 years ago
  
  Why?? What magical property does a manual submission have?
  
  Are you saying that Google can look a link and tell how it was made?
  
  Please explain how you think they can do that.
  
  Richard
  
  Originally Posted by ramirezhenry55
  
  I think manual submission to quality sites is very important. This will be given more weight than automated submissions.
  
  Thanks
  
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lexilexi

14 years ago

Originally Posted by MervikHaums

Do you have any particular practices for finding or calculating the apprx. link juice each page can produce? I mean - it's relation between the no. of OBLs and the page PR??

Hi Mervik, no I don't calculate this, but in general if a page already has a large number of outgoing links and low PR, I'm less enthusiastic to add my comment than I would be otherwise...

As for making sure the pages linking to you get indexed, one tip I picked up from 'Eli" of bluehatseo is to check your stats to see where your visitors are coming from, some of those pages might not be indexed and if you build a couple of links to them, this might be sufficient to enable them to be found. Assuming they are static pages of course.

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ARVolund

14 years ago

While that is the case I think it is more than that.

Even a site with all the links coming from pages that have not grown in pr is showing better results after the links have been there awhile. I have been seeing this quite a bit which leads me to believe that the longer you have a link the more worth Google assigns that link. I have done a few tests and the results really do make me believe this.

Richard

Originally Posted by lexilexi

Pages that link to you may gain more "juice" over time as they acquire more links themselves. There's a "secret" link building tip here - keep track of the pages that you have built links to your site from - and to make sure they get indexed / give you more "link juice", build links to them too!

[ 1 ] Thanks
1 reply

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lexilexi

14 years ago

Originally Posted by ARVolund

While that is the case I think it is more than that.

Even a site with all the links coming from pages that have not grown in pr is showing better results after the links have been there awhile. I have been seeing this quite a bit which leads me to believe that the longer you have a link the more worth Google assigns that link. I have done a few tests and the results really do make me believe this.

Richard

Sounds plausible to me. I also think that PR is not the only factor that Google uses to assign "weight" to a link... the age of the domain itself; and the incoming links that the page has may have grown, without necessarily increasing the PR of the page.

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ARVolund

14 years ago

Possibly but I took a couple of little niche sites and built links to the from pages that I seriously doubt anybody linked to. Bookmarked the links a few times to make sure they were indexed an then stopped doing any backlinking to the sites at all.

On both sites even though very close to all the backlinks were indexed the rankings for the keywords were nowhere at first. A month later there was some improvement but after three months both sites had first page rankings for multiple terms.

Both these sites were a year old when I did the link building and I built around 2k links to them over a couple of weeks then stopped. No linkbuilding before that or after. The only real difference was that the backlinks themselves had aged. I added no new content during that time and it was not like they were brand new sites to start with so I really do not see that as a factor.

I suppose there could be some other reason but I do not think so. To be honest it makes sense. A link that stays around should be worth more than one that does not.

Richard

Originally Posted by lexilexi

Sounds plausible to me. I also think that PR is not the only factor that Google uses to assign "weight" to a link... the age of the domain itself; and the incoming links that the page has may have grown, without necessarily increasing the PR of the page.

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FPF Web Development 14 years ago

Originally Posted by StupidCupid

have you heard a term "google sand box"?

It's not real...that happened a long time ago and many people that it was because Google was taking the time to get all the garbage they had in their engine out and make sure that only the relevant material appeared high up in the rankings.
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bgmacaw 14 years ago

Originally Posted by StupidCupid

have you heard a term "google sand box"?

YouTube - The Matrix - Vase (cro sub)

Would you still have broken it if I hadn't said anything...
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- Spot the Ball 14 years ago
  
  Oh Crap!
  
  Maybe I should ask the directorys I submitted to automatically to remove my articles/links that shot my rankings up 10 pages in 1 week.
  
  There's more than 1 way to skin a cat, use automation and manual with one and other, dont fight, go with the flow AND what gets your rankings high.
  
  If you want to spend a full day doing manual submits then fine, go for it.
  
  I,d rather press a few buttons for EXACTLY the same outcome.
  
  Some submissions require a more personal touch and this is fine too, just seems pretty pointless fighting for a principle just because you believe it is better, even without any real proof.
  
  Use your loaf, use different pen names, vary anchors etc...
  
  Thanks
  
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Mike Anthony

14 years ago

Neither. My favorite is magnetic which means people link to you without you placing links yourself. Between manual and automatic I will choose manual because there is a direct relationship of quality between Manual and automatic. Links that you can leave automatically tend to (not always) tend to be of lower quality.

Thanks

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Michael Nguyen

14 years ago

Originally Posted by MervikHaums

Hey guys,

its a saturated topic I know. But still I can see that lots of guys are going on with automatic link building like - through claims like isnare has got (1 article to 1000 sites and all lol) According to my knowledge its just like 1000 dumps.

If you submit an article manually to 10-15 good directories that'd work more than this. Because good website wont encourage automation there. They have manual editing all the time.

What do you think about this? Better link building is manual or automated?

As far as I know, websites don't know whether its automated or manual as the only thing that can link a profile to a user is your computer ip address.

The misconception here about those that favour manual is that they think that manual will get a better ranking/more traffic/more human like but it's no different.

The only difference is the speed of link building and it's no different than hiring 50 out sourceworkers to link build or using eg SENuke.

Thanks
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Michael Nguyen

14 years ago

Originally Posted by StupidCupid

Automatic but with limitations.. let say not more than 50 links a day

Some would argue that search engines won't find all these links unless you do extra seo to the profile links eg post all links on one page and then bookmark.
50 links a day is a good idea when you working on money sites for diversification purposes.

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Neither. My favorite is magnetic which means people link to you without you placing links yourself. Between manual and automatic I will choose manual because there is a direct relationship of quality between Manual and automatic. Links that you can leave automatically tend to (not always) tend to be of lower quality.

I would disagree here because a profile link whether done automatic or manual is STILL the same quality link. You can set software to just register and then come back to the same account 5 days later (so that it's "established") and then leave the link and it would still be the same link if done manual.

Best regards
Michael

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Mike Anthony 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Michael Nguyen

I would disagree here because a profile link whether done automatic or manual is STILL the same quality link.

Theres more to backlinking than profile backlinks. One example - If you automate blog comments for example then you stand a MUCH higher chance of getting backlinks removed from the comments or not getting approval at all.

Besides if you automate backlinks too much then you are a spammer and can't possibly add much of value to the sites. That gets your site a reputation as a spammer and sites routinely lock off backlinks similar to how Warrior forums now doesn't allow discussion of those tools.
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StupidCupid

Banned 14 years ago

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MervikHaums

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Neither. My favorite is magnetic which means people link to you without you placing links yourself. Between manual and automatic I will choose manual because there is a direct relationship of quality between Manual and automatic. Links that you can leave automatically tend to (not always) tend to be of lower quality.

Originally Posted by StupidCupid

There are 86 websites this week syndicated my content and linked back to me.. I think that's more than manual and automatic

Completely agreeing with you guys!!

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Mike Anthony

14 years ago

Originally Posted by StupidCupid

There are 86 websites this week syndicated my content and linked back to me.. I think that's more than manual and automatic

The power of the magnetic link created by content.

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StupidCupid

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MervikHaums

14 years ago

Originally Posted by StupidCupid

I am getting hundreds of UK visitors per article every time I submitted an article to a particular article directory.. The content of this directory is being syndicated by around 90 directories.. that's how my article is being distributed..

.. that's also how I create most of my backlink...

Hey buddy, that 'd be greatly helpful if you can mention that directory url (at least in PM )

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StupidCupid

Banned 14 years ago

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MervikHaums

14 years ago

Originally Posted by StupidCupid

Its actually one of the directories listed here.. I don't know which one but every time I submit my article into this lists, I got that result..

http://www.warriorforum.com/adsense-...ed-google.html

Thanks ma friend. I already checked your thread and saved it too. Do you have any special favs among these?

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4d-media.ca

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

The power of the magnetic link created by content.

attraction rather than promotion - simple and elegant

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dburk

14 years ago

Originally Posted by 4d-media.ca

attraction rather than promotion - simple and elegant

Hi 4d-media.ca,

Yes, it is simple and elegant, however quite useless without the accompaniment of promotion.

Let me try to explain using basic math
Given:
A = Attraction
P = Promotion
R = Results

A is a multiplier of the results from P Thus:

(A10 * P10) + P10 = R110 (Most effective results)
(A0 * P10) + P10 = R10 (somewhat effective)
(A10 * P0) + P0 = R0 (zero effective results)

Linkbait, with no promotion applied, gets no traffic and therefore no response to what might otherwise be a very effective piece of content. The better the linkbait the more effective your results will be from promotional efforts.

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MervikHaums

14 years ago

Originally Posted by dburk

Hi 4d-media.ca,

Yes, it is simple and elegant, however quite useless without the accompaniment of promotion.

Let me try to explain using basic math
Given:
A = Attration
P = Promotion
R = Results

A is a multiplier of the results from P Thus:

(A10 * P10) + P10 = R110 (Most effective results)
(A0 * P10) + P10 = R10 (somewhat effective)
(A10 * P0) + P0 = R0 (zero effective results)

Linkbait, with no promotion applied, gets no traffic and therefore no response to what might otherwise be a very effective piece of content. The better the linkbait the more effective your results will be from promotional efforts.

Dburk, Cool..!! I appreciate it

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ARVolund

14 years ago

The question is not really automated vs manual but Quality vs crap......

Your example really has nothing to with automation itself.

If you want to submit quality well written articles to 15 well respected directories you can still automate the submission process and nothing is lost.

It is very hard to automate quality content but anything else in the process can and should be automated to save you time and energy.

It is not the automation that is the problem but poor automation that is the problem. You should automate any and all repetitive tasks as you can so it frees you up to do more productive work.

Even semi-automating task can save a fair amount of time and seriously does it really matter if you manually enter information into all the forms and fields you run into in any given day. Who would care and why.

Think of all the non-internet related tools you use everyday that makes your life easier and more productive.

It is not the process that matters it is the end result.

Richard

Originally Posted by MervikHaums

Hey guys,

its a saturated topic I know. But still I can see that lots of guys are going on with automatic link building like - through claims like isnare has got (1 article to 1000 sites and all lol) According to my knowledge its just like 1000 dumps.

If you submit an article manually to 10-15 good directories that'd work more than this. Because good website wont encourage automation there. They have manual editing all the time.

What do you think about this? Better link building is manual or automated?

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1 reply

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FPF Web Development

14 years ago

Originally Posted by ARVolund

The question is not really automated vs manual but Quality vs crap......

Your example really has nothing to with automation itself.

If you want to submit quality well written articles to 15 well respected directories you can still automate the submission process and nothing is lost.

It is very hard to automate quality content but anything else in the process can and should be automated to save you time and energy.

It is not the automation that is the problem but poor automation that is the problem. You should automate any and all repetitive tasks as you can so it frees you up to do more productive work.

Even semi-automating task can save a fair amount of time and seriously does it really matter if you manually enter information into all the forms and fields you run into in any given day. Who would care and why.

Think of all the non-internet related tools you use everyday that makes your life easier and more productive.

It is not the process that matters it is the end result.

Richard

I couldn't agree with you more.

Thanks

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FranksToys

14 years ago

I think its important to have a nice balance between the two. Manual generally allows for higher quality, where as automatic allows me to get the quantity I need.

Think about layering your links, meaning linking to your articles that you submitted to a directory with automatic tools such as Bookmarking Demon, or similar tools. That way your articles or other manual linkbuilding activities gain as much "linkjuice" as possible.

Thanks

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GuerrillaIM

14 years ago

Fully manual SEO is for sado masacists. There is always manual stuff you need to do but not using automation is just wasting your time

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JoshBrown

14 years ago

I hate to break it to you disbelievers, but major companies BUY their links through link brokers. So it's a manual process for sure.

As for the frequency, I never do more than 25 IBLS per week.

My two cents (HTH),
Josh

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Kpick

14 years ago

I use a little of both. As time goes one I believe it will be more and more manual stuff that will keep your ranking at the top.
There are only a few short cuts that you can take.

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glenbolton85

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StupidCupid Banned 14 years ago

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- MervikHaums 14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by StupidCupid
  
  If you are on link directory submission mode I don't think you still want to check the backlink page....
  
  Exactly Man! I prefer your way is the best - I mean semi automatic link building (not talking about directory submissions though) with form fillers. So the result is 100% Manual!!
  
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osho3

14 years ago

manually link building is best

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OrganicSeoGuru

14 years ago

Interesting thread, so I was wondering the following:

I create an article and then I a manually submit it to the top 15 article directories that do get google coming on through, like ezine, buzzle, whatever...

Now if I post the same article on each directory is that then considered duplicate content to the search engines ?

Will any of the backlinks to my site from the resource box for example count for anything ?

Thanks for your input.

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ARVolund 14 years ago

Yes.

Make sure you submit and get it accepted at ezine first to make the acceptance process easier.
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MervikHaums

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Marc-M

Interesting thread, so I was wondering the following:

I create an article and then I a manually submit it to the top 15 article directories that do get google coming on through, like ezine, buzzle, whatever...

Now if I post the same article on each directory is that then considered duplicate content to the search engines ?

Will any of the backlinks to my site from the resource box for example count for anything ?

Thanks for your input.

Many of such links have been considered as my website's backlinks with my own experience. By the way - I tried buzzle - do we have to apply to become a writer there??

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kea55

14 years ago

ok so can we get some good software recommedations?

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cpa-money

14 years ago

hello!

i tried both method:

1) manual submitting articles to 15 good directories - the results are very good.

2)auto submit the same article to 150+ garbage directories - got nothing, they dont indexed by google and i dont see them as a backlink although all the articles are alive.

so go for manuel submitting it is better

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ARVolund

14 years ago

Again though the difference was not manual vs automated the difference was good directories vs crap directories.

If you automate the process for submitting to those 15 good directories then you get the best of both worlds.

The problem is that a lot of you saying manual is best are using tools that do not do what you want them to do. You are taking what somebody else gives you and going with that.

Any submission process to any site can be automated. Pick the directories or sites you want to submit to and have good results with and automate those. Do not just buy some cheap submission software that submits to a bunch of directories that you do not like or that do not work for you.

Automate YOUR best processes, not the processes somebody else thinks you should be doing.

Richard

Originally Posted by cpa-money

hello!

i tried both method:

1) manual submitting articles to 15 good directories - the results are very good.

2)auto submit the same article to 150+ garbage directories - got nothing, they dont indexed by google and i dont see them as a backlink although all the articles are alive.

so go for manuel submitting it is better

Thanks
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MervikHaums 14 years ago

You 're right guys. Making our manual processes faster is a very good thing to achieve quicker results. So it's highly recommended to be with semi automated link building.
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ribas4

14 years ago

I prefer using unique articles wizard, it's can set up for how much do you want to submission directory..

just my opinion, thanks

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Rocketguy

14 years ago

semi automatic is the way to go. So you know where you are building links and can control everything, but it is a lot quicker then manual.

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moruz

14 years ago

Hi.
You must go for the manual process instead of the automated one.

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digitalstar

14 years ago

I prefer Manual link building. Automation giving results in a limited manner only. I had seen the best results only with Manual Link Building.

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ARVolund

14 years ago

What kind of limited results do you get with automation?

How can Google or anyone else for that matter tell how your linkbuilding was done?

They can not. There is absolutely no way for anyone to tell whether or not information you entered in a website was done manually by you, outsourced to somebody else or done by a bot. All they can see is the end result.

How the links are built do not matter at all only the quality of the job itself.

It is not automation that is the problem it is bad automation that is the problem.

Other than content you can automate any process that you do online. So you can not automate writing your articles for instance but you can automate submitting them to the exact same directories using the exact same steps you would use doing it manually.

I hope the luddites are in my niches,,,,,,

Originally Posted by digitalstar

I prefer Manual link building. Automation giving results in a limited manner only. I had seen the best results only with Manual Link Building.

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Tom Goodwin

14 years ago

Originally Posted by ARVolund

How can Google or anyone else for that matter tell how your linkbuilding was done?

They can not.

Amen.

If the output is the same for doing someting manual versus automatic, then no one can tell if it was done automatically or manually. What matters is the types of links, getting enough backlinks, etc. If you can do something automatically that you can do manually with the same output, to be blunt, you are stupid to do it manually.

Tom

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MervikHaums

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Tom Goodwin

Amen.

If the output is the same for doing someting manual versus automatic, then no one can tell if it was done automatically or manually. What matters is the types of links, getting enough backlinks, etc. If you can do something automatically that you can do manually with the same output, to be blunt, you are stupid to do it manually.

Tom

Yeah, that's true. But automated link building has got many limitations. The main thing is most of the top websites in any category won't support this. So either we have to do it manually or semi automatically using tools like roboform and all. But for sure - 100% automation is not possible in good sites.

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bay37

14 years ago

Originally Posted by MervikHaums

Yeah, that's true. But automated link building has got many limitations. The main thing is most of the top websites in any category won't support this. So either we have to do it manually or semi automatically using tools like roboform and all. But for sure - 100% automation is not possible in good sites.

Not true. Complete automation is possible. I do it all the time - write your own scripts/bots.

Just because such tools are not being sold to the masses doesn't mean they don't exist. There's a lot more money to be made using them than sharing them with newbs for $xx/month.

...and props to ARVolund aka Richard for talking sense.

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MervikHaums

14 years ago

Originally Posted by bay37

Not true. Complete automation is possible. I do it all the time - write your own scripts/bots.

Just because such tools are not being sold to the masses doesn't mean they don't exist. There's a lot more money to be made using them than sharing them with newbs for /month.

...and props to ARVolund aka Richard for talking sense.

Well said man!!

I'm wrong. Here 100%. Coz self made scripts work great as far as I know. But it require time and knowledge/money to build the script. Even with the sites I'm talking about like these automation can be possible. But how 100% is possible.? Even if we use tools like Roboform its semi automatic right? Can you correct me if I'm wrong with this point??

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bay37

14 years ago

Originally Posted by MervikHaums

Well said man!!

I'm wrong. Here 100%. Coz self made scripts work great as far as I know. But it require time and knowledge/money to build the script. Even with the sites I'm talking about like these automation can be possible. But how 100% is possible.? Even if we use tools like Roboform its semi automatic right? Can you correct me if I'm wrong with this point??

Any website can be automated. Yes it does require some knowledge...

I'm sure there are ways to prevent complete automation, but that normally completely destroys the user experience, making the methods/sites useless. Also, sometimes automating things isn't worth the time/effort - which is when you outsource stuff.

I'm not talking about Roboform either, that's far from automated.

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ARVolund

14 years ago

Maybe you can not automate some sites but I have personally not found a site that I was not able to automate. Some take more time than others but all that I have come across can be done.

What are these "top websites" that cannot be automated.

Richard

Originally Posted by MervikHaums

Yeah, that's true. But automated link building has got many limitations. The main thing is most of the top websites in any category won't support this. So either we have to do it manually or semi automatically using tools like roboform and all. But for sure - 100% automation is not possible in good sites.

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shaggard

14 years ago

Personally, if you are going with automatic I would go with SocialAdr. It is the closest thing to manual as you can get.

You place your link on their site and others bookmark it for you. They limit how much it can be linked so it does not look spammy. Plus you get different IPs bookmarking your site so it looks natural. And since you are not bookmarking your site, your social media places have different stuff.

That being said. I think manual is the best way to go. While I use SocialAdr, i do not rely on it. I build quality backlinks myself.

Thanks
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MervikHaums

14 years ago

Originally Posted by shaggard

Personally, if you are going with automatic I would go with SocialAdr. It is the closest thing to manual as you can get.

You place your link on their site and others bookmark it for you. They limit how much it can be linked so it does not look spammy. Plus you get different IPs bookmarking your site so it looks natural. And since you are not bookmarking your site, your social media places have different stuff.

That being said. I think manual is the best way to go. While I use SocialAdr, i do not rely on it. I build quality backlinks myself.

Hello Shaggard,

is this online tool just for social bookmarking websites or they provide the service for articles too??

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BandTShirts

14 years ago

Link Building is manual. it's not a automatic Process.

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Groovystar

14 years ago

It's not about the principle of it--the motive is the same and the effects are the same so the principle is irrelevant. The only reason you'd do manual link submissions is when you can't get the same results automatically. That's rather often IMO. i couldn't be making these posts of mine right here with my link in my sig, automatically, unless of course I wanted to just quickly get banned. Things like forum posts require a human touch.

{I've also picked up more tips and places to backlink through browsing the topics here than I would've just pressing a few buttons!}

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Abhinandangarg 14 years ago

Manual submission is best for Natural link building
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Highdefinition

14 years ago

Hi,

I think it would be better if you do both. You build links automatically and manually. What's important is that you make your link building look natural to Google.

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osho3

14 years ago

manual linkuilding is best

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shellybrown84

14 years ago

Manual submission are always best way to get value..

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ARVolund

14 years ago

I suppose it depends on what you mean by value.

For me value means getting the most return on my time that I can get.

Sometimes this means outsourcing, sometimes this means automation, and sometimes it means doing it myself.

The more repetitive something is the more it lends itself to automation.

Lets say I can put links on 500 sites and if I do it myself I can do 100 an hour so it will take me 5 hours of my time.

If I outsource it takes them a little longer so call it 6 hours plus 45 mins of my time to explain what I need and checking the results etc.

If I automate the process I spend 15 mins setting it up.

Now if I do it my self I get 95% a 95% success rate and end up with 475 links.

If I outsource the success rate will be a little lower call it 90% so I end up with 450 links

If I automate the success rate will be lower, lets lowball it and call it 60% so I end up with 300 links.

Lets use $10 an hour for my time and $2.50 for the person I outsourced to to make the math easy.

If I did them my self each link cost me about 10.5 cents each

If I outsource it each link cost me about 5 cents each.

If I automate it each link cost me about .8 cents each.

Now which is the better "Value"

Since there is no difference in the links themselves it is obvious which has a much better ROI.

Richard

Originally Posted by shellybrown84

Manual submission are always best way to get value..

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dburk

14 years ago

Originally Posted by ARVolund

I suppose it depends on what you mean by value.

For me value means getting the most return on my time that I can get.

Sometimes this means outsourcing, sometimes this means automation, and sometimes it means doing it myself.

The more repetitive something is the more it lends itself to automation.

Lets say I can put links on 500 sites and if I do it myself I can do 100 an hour so it will take me 5 hours of my time.

If I outsource it takes them a little longer so call it 6 hours plus 45 mins of my time to explain what I need and checking the results etc.

If I automate the process I spend 15 mins setting it up.

Now if I do it my self I get 95% a 95% success rate and end up with 475 links.

If I outsource the success rate will be a little lower call it 90% so I end up with 450 links

If I automate the success rate will be lower, lets lowball it and call it 60% so I end up with 300 links.

Lets use $10 an hour for my time and $2.50 for the person I outsourced to to make the math easy.

If I did them my self each link cost me about 10.5 cents each

If I outsource it each link cost me about 5 cents each.

If I automate it each link cost me about .8 cents each.

Now which is the better "Value"

Since there is no difference in the links themselves it is obvious which has a much better ROI.

Richard

Hi Richard,

In theory, you make a good argument for 100% automation, however there are a number of real-world issues that tend to mitigate much of the advantages you might have gained from 100% automation.

What looks good on paper does not always play out the same in practice. Let's take your example and apply some real-world attributes to get a more realistic vantage of automation in link building.

While some may argue that a bot can do a very good job of imitating a human, bots do have their limitations. Where bots fall short of humans is in the ability to adapt and solve problems. They can only do what they have been programmed to do, while a human has an unlimited capacity to adapt. well, at least some humans.

Then there is the very complex nature of human emotion, the capacity to sense the emotional element in a circumstance and pick up on very subtle nuances. Bots have not mastered these human qualities and it will likely be far into the future before we see anything that approaches human capacity. And when that day comes, it will be very likely that hiring a human will be much cheaper than that technology.

I would say where your evaluation of 100% automation falls short is that you allowed little consideration for the value of quality. While yes you did allow for a lower success rate, you seem to make the assumption that all links hold the exact same value, in real-world practice they do not.

From my observations, I believe the 60% success rate you assign to purely automated link placement to be a bit high, but not impossible. When we consider the sites that rejected the automated content, they may have represented 95% of the potential linking value from that group of sites. You see the sites that have the most influence on our ranking tend to be well moderated sites that have human webmasters, editors and moderators that are very good at picking up on those nuances that are uniquely human qualities.

Futhermore, those sites that aren't very good at discerning auto-generated content tend to disappear, or they adapt and delete your auto-generated links or the search engines completely devalue the links. Google, in fact, withholds the full value of backlinks until they have stood the test of time. Most auto-generated links do not stand the test of time and when you consider their value over the long term, you may find they fall far short of your original estimate.

Don't get me wrong, I am a fan of automation, but not where a human offers better value. And lets not forget that a bot is only beneficial when it is useful to humans. When you use bots to influence bots, it's only beneficial if the end result is more useful to humans than what a human could have achieved. The real world has an uncanny way of coming back and slapping you in the face with this reality.

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ARVolund

14 years ago

I appreciate the well thought out reply.

I agree on auto generated content. The content itself is something I outsource rather than automate. While it would be nice if I could figure out a way to automate content such as articles I do not think we are anywhere close to that at this point.

I did say that sometimes doing something myself or outsourcing does give the best value. You have to look at each instance and decide which tool or method is the best.

I have always said that the argument is not automation vs manual but good automation vs bad automation.

As a general rule I build and use my own bots. This does allow me to correctly automate the specific sites that I want to use. Does this take time to program? Of course it does but once it is done then the time savings can be tremendous.

Lets take article marketing as an example because it came up in another thread. The argument for manual submission was made that submitting an article to the top 15 article sites was better than submitting it to hundreds of crappy sites that you are able to do with some one size fits all bot that is sold to everybody.

I do not disagree but my argument is that automating those top 15 sites is the best solution of all. I can outsource 20 articles load them into a bot I create and then submit them to the exact sites that I have decided are best for my business. The whole process might take 15-20 mins out of my morning and there is no way for Google or anyone else to tell that I did not manually login and submit all those articles manually.

My point has always been to look at the end result not the process. If you can automate a process that gives you the same result ( or very close) as you would get doing it manually then you should. If you can not get the desired result then automation is not a good fit.

My problem is with people who somehow think that doing things manually gives their links some magical properties and that is just not the case.

As you say it is the quality that matters and I agree with that. If you look at a post, article, or backlink all that matters is the end result that you see, how it was done is completely immaterial. It matters not whether I wrote the article my self or paid someone to write it for me. It matters not whether or not I loaded my articles into a bot to submit or that I submitted them manually. What matters is whether the quality of the article is good and the submission was done correctly.

Actually the 60% I quoted was low. The types of activities I do automate are usually much higher than that. Now it does take some time to tweak things to get there but by the time I move a particular process to production mode I usually get around 80%+ success rate and most of those failures are captcha related.

Doing my own automation does give me one advantage, I can go down paths less traveled that others my find not worth their time. I know that this allows me to have a better success rate than if I was going after the same sites and links that everyone else is chasing.

Richard

Originally Posted by dburk

Hi Richard,

In theory, you make a good argument for 100% automation, however there are a number of real-world issues that tend to mitigate much of the advantages you might have gained from 100% automation.

What looks good on paper does not always play out the same in practice. Let's take your example and apply some real-world attributes to get a more realistic vantage of automation in link building.

While some may argue that a bot can do a very good job of imitating a human, bots do have their limitations. Where bots fall short of humans is in the ability to adapt and solve problems. They can only do what they have been programmed to do, while a human has an unlimited capacity to adapt. well, at least some humans.

Then there is the very complex nature of human emotion, the capacity to sense the emotional element in a circumstance and pick up on very subtle nuances. Bots have not mastered these human qualities and it will likely be far into the future before we see anything that approaches human capacity. And when that day comes, it will be very likely that hiring a human will be much cheaper than that technology.

I would say where your evaluation of 100% automation falls short is that you allowed little consideration for the value of quality. While yes you did allow for a lower success rate, you seem to make the assumption that all links hold the exact same value, in real-world practice they do not.

From my observations, I believe the 60% success rate you assign to purely automated link placement to be a bit high, but not impossible. When we consider the sites that rejected the automated content, they may have represented 95% of the potential linking value from that group of sites. You see the sites that have the most influence on our ranking tend to be well moderated sites that have human webmasters, editors and moderators that are very good at picking up on those nuances that are uniquely human qualities.

Futhermore, those sites that aren't very good at discerning auto-generated content tend to disappear, or they adapt and delete your auto-generated links or the search engines completely devalue the links. Google, in fact, withholds the full value of backlinks until they have stood the test of time. Most auto-generated links do not stand the test of time and when you consider their value over the long term, you may find they fall far short of your original estimate.

Don't get me wrong, I am a fan of automation, but not where a human offers better value. And lets not forget that a bot is only beneficial when it is useful to humans. When you use bots to influence bots, it's only beneficial if the end result is more useful to humans than what a human could have achieved. The real world has an uncanny way of coming back and slapping you in the face with this reality.

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dburk

14 years ago

Originally Posted by ARVolund

I appreciate the well thought out reply.

I agree on auto generated content. The content itself is something I outsource rather than automate. While it would be nice if I could figure out a way to automate content such as articles I do not think we are anywhere close to that at this point.

I did say that sometimes doing something myself or outsourcing does give the best value. You have to look at each instance and decide which tool or method is the best.

I have always said that the argument is not automation vs manual but good automation vs bad automation.

As a general rule I build and use my own bots. This does allow me to correctly automate the specific sites that I want to use. Does this take time to program? Of course it does but once it is done then the time savings can be tremendous.

Lets take article marketing as an example because it came up in another thread. The argument for manual submission was made that submitting an article to the top 15 article sites was better than submitting it to hundreds of crappy sites that you are able to do with some one size fits all bot that is sold to everybody.

I do not disagree but my argument is that automating those top 15 sites is the best solution of all. I can outsource 20 articles load them into a bot I create and then submit them to the exact sites that I have decided are best for my business. The whole process might take 15-20 mins out of my morning and there is no way for Google or anyone else to tell that I did not manually login and submit all those articles manually.

My point has always been to look at the end result not the process. If you can automate a process that gives you the same result ( or very close) as you would get doing it manually then you should. If you can not get the desired result then automation is not a good fit.

My problem is with people who somehow think that doing things manually gives their links some magical properties and that is just not the case.

As you say it is the quality that matters and I agree with that. If you look at a post, article, or backlink all that matters is the end result that you see, how it was done is completely immaterial. It matters not whether I wrote the article my self or paid someone to write it for me. It matters not whether or not I loaded my articles into a bot to submit or that I submitted them manually. What matters is whether the quality of the article is good and the submission was done correctly.

Actually the 60% I quoted was low. The types of activities I do automate are usually much higher than that. Now it does take some time to tweak things to get there but by the time I move a particular process to production mode I usually get around 80%+ success rate and most of those failures are captcha related.

Doing my own automation does give me one advantage, I can go down paths less traveled that others my find not worth their time. I know that this allows me to have a better success rate than if I was going after the same sites and links that everyone else is chasing.

Richard

Hi Richard,

Seems that we tend to mostly agree. If I understand you correctly, you do not use automation to compose the content, but instead use automation to distribute content that is created by skilled human authors. Furthermore, you have carefully selected sites that use human moderators to maintain a degree of quality. If this is what you are saying then we share a similar view of the proper role of automation.

To be fair, I think that perhaps both you and those espousing pure manual methods probably agree on more than you disagree. When you make a flat assertion about pure automation, many will assume that you mean just that, including auto-generated content. And those espousing pure manual methods may actually mean pure human created content placed on human selected and moderated websites, which seems to be your recommended method. In those critical elements you are in fact in agreement.

Perhaps a little clarity, such that you provided in your subsequent post will help the "manual method" advocates see that you are in agreement with the key elements of link building, which is content creation and placement selection by humans. For some it may simple be a matter of semantics that creates the illusion of disagreement.

Having said that, there are other possible motives that could be behind some of the cries for pure manual methods. Some of those may be that they market a service that offers pure manual methods as a feature of the service, they don't want to have to compete with highly automated marketers or the use a platform that is harmed in some way by this automation. Though I suspect most are just offended by the terrible wave of garbage being created by so many that use automated tools for content creation or indiscriminate distribution of useless self-serving content.

While I agree that mundane and repetitive tasks should be automated, but only if you can achieve better overall results. The trick is to determine which tasks are better performed by humans.

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MervikHaums

14 years ago

Originally Posted by dburk

Hi Richard,

Seems that we tend to mostly agree. If I understand you correctly, you do not use automation to compose the content, but instead use automation to distribute content that is created by skilled human authors. Furthermore, you have carefully selected sites that use human moderators to maintain a degree of quality. If this is what you are saying then we share a similar view of the proper role of automation.

Yes, well said my friend!! This is the best way to automate or in much words 'semi automate' things.!

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ARVolund

14 years ago

Well I have always said that it is the end results that count.

It really depends on what you are automating, obviously some thing lend themselves better than others. You might be surprised though just how much you can automate without being able to tell the difference.

For now there is really no way to automate good content so I outsource it.

I do not do blog comments anymore because I do not think those types of links are stable enough, lots of churn with those so you have to keep replacing links just to stay in place not to mention get ahead.

When talking about content though you need to keep in mind its purpose. Is it something that you want to get visitors to and try and rank like an ezine article or is it something that you are using just to get a link to your site? Different standards and for the second you can use a certain amount of automation successfully.

I would say that when most people are talking about linkbuilding they are talking about three main areas.

1. Articles- Whether on article sites, web 2.0 sites or blogs.

The articles themselves should not be automated but every other step of the process can and should be. I have not run across any site that I could not build a bot to submit to. The process is even simplifed if you keep going back to the same sites like ezine etc. Once you have the system in place you can load the article and then go do something else. If you write you own articles I would call this semi-automated if you outsource them I would call it mostly. If I can take delivery of 20 articles and post them where I want them to go with less than 30 mins work instead of hours that is mostly automated.

2. Blog commenting- Like I said this is not something I do but if you look around there are a lot of comments out there that both suck and stick. I would agree that the comments on sites that are moderate are most likely worth more though. You can automate the process of finding the blog you want to comment on which can save you quite a bit of time. Depending on how much you care about the quality this can range from semi to fully automated, I recommend semi.

3. Profile links- This leads itself quite well to automation. Very repetitive and not very complicated. Anybody who is building profile links by hand is completely out of their mind. There is absolutely no way to tell how a profile link was made by the quality.

I have noticed that some of the ones most adamant about manual being better just happen to have a link in their profile offering manual link building. Does make you wonder at the motivation.

Results is the key and how you measure them. I try and look at the ROI that I get for my time. There is a point of diminishing returns when you talk about quality so that is something to keep in mind as well.

Even if I automate a task and it is not quite as good as if I did it myself but it saves me a huge amount of time I have to balance the two and decide where to draw the line. This is true of outsourcing as well. Very rarely( except writing content) have I outsourced something and had it done as well as I would have done it myself. There is always that balance between the two and everyone has to decide for themselves where the line is. The thing I always come back to is ROI. Will that extra 5% increase in quality increase my income enough to make up for the extra time I have to spend fixing it? If not I let it go. If I think it will be worthi my time then I fix it before moving on.

This is true even with things we do 100% manually. Very few things that you do could not be improved in some way. You are always having to decide where to draw the line between quality, time and the return on your time.

Hmmm....I could probably get a lot more posts in if they were shorter. Must get off my soapbox and stop pontificating.

Richard

Originally Posted by dburk

Hi Richard,

Seems that we tend to mostly agree. If I understand you correctly, you do not use automation to compose the content, but instead use automation to distribute content that is created by skilled human authors. Furthermore, you have carefully selected sites that use human moderators to maintain a degree of quality. If this is what you are saying then we share a similar view of the proper role of automation.

To be fair, I think that perhaps both you and those espousing pure manual methods probably agree on more than you disagree. When you make a flat assertion about pure automation, many will assume that you mean just that, including auto-generated content. And those espousing pure manual methods may actually mean pure human created content placed on human selected and moderated websites, which seems to be your recommended method. In those critical elements you are in fact in agreement.

Perhaps a little clarity, such that you provided in your subsequent post will help the "manual method" advocates see that you are in agreement with the key elements of link building, which is content creation and placement selection by humans. For some it may simple be a matter of semantics that creates the illusion of disagreement.

Having said that, there are other possible motives that could be behind some of the cries for pure manual methods. Some of those may be that they market a service that offers pure manual methods as a feature of the service, they don't want to have to compete with highly automated marketers or the use a platform that is harmed in some way by this automation. Though I suspect most are just offended by the terrible wave of garbage being created by so many that use automated tools for content creation or indiscriminate distribution of useless self-serving content.

While I agree that mundane and repetitive tasks should be automated, but only if you can achieve better overall results. The trick is to determine which tasks are better performed by humans.

Thanks

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lexilexi

14 years ago

Many automated link building strategies are highly transparent. It takes me about 1 minute to go into Yahoo Site Explorer and find out if someone has been doing automated link building. It might not be so bad with profile links, but with comments... you don't want to annoy people - all they have to do is file a spam report with Google. Also, the top 10 for competitive keywords is just that - competitive. I bet there are webmasters out there who wouldn't think twice about blowing the whistle and making your site disappear if you were using spammy methods to try to outrank them. Better to post unique comments. If I can't add value to a blog with my comment, I move on. It's a slower road, but I mostly work in the realm of "evergreen content" and wish to build my empire on more solid foundations. You have to do something though.

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nossie

14 years ago

Arvolund is 100% right.

Automating a "manual linkbuilding process" is the way to go.

It looks like some of you people are afraid for any kind of automation. Thinking google has a spycam in your house seeing exactly what you are doing.

every business is build on automation.

The thing that manual linkbuilding always is much better even If i would automate the exact same manual process is the biggest bull**** i have ever heard.

But hey... please keep thinking like that and continue to give me free top spots for competitive keywords when you guys are wasting months on something that I do in 10 minutes.

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Mike Grant

14 years ago

All my backlinks are automatic. Great results.

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Sushie93

14 years ago

Only newbies and lazy people will use automated linkbuilding.
Manual linkbuilding is good but magnetic linkbuilding is better.

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Mike Grant 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Sushie93

Only newbies and lazy people will use automated linkbuilding.
Manual linkbuilding is good but magnetic linkbuilding is better.

Lol @ newbies.

Sure, buddy, sure.
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Gary Becks 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Sushie93

Only newbies and lazy people will use automated linkbuilding.
Manual linkbuilding is good but magnetic linkbuilding is better.

Lol! This coming from someone who is selling social bookmarking links at 5$ a pop... Classic..
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bioss

14 years ago

the best effect is to find manual place to put backlinks on forums profiles blogs and other places. Automatic backlinks only good for network not a client.

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marktellar

Banned 14 years ago

[DELETED]

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MervikHaums

14 years ago

Originally Posted by marktellar

I think manual link building is much better than the automatic as in automatic link building we can't recognize whether it is happening properly or not. As in manual link building we know all the posts and also it works well than the automatic.

But as the above guys have told already - if we create our own way to make the process automatic, we can get exact details of the link building process even after it get automated.

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ARVolund

14 years ago

Well I automate and I get a report of exactly which sites were successful. I suppose if you have just one website and lots of extra time manual is fine. I personally would rather do other money generating activities link finding new profitable niches and building more sites.

Richard

Originally Posted by marktellar

I think manual link building is much better than the automatic as in automatic link building we can't recognize whether it is happening properly or not. As in manual link building we know all the posts and also it works well than the automatic.

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normanc

Banned 14 years ago

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ARVolund

14 years ago

While there is some cost involved in automation it is always a matter of ROI.

You have to look at results vs cost and make sure that any program/method is worth doing. If something costs $50 a month you have to make sure that it saves you enough time that it is worth it.

Personally I rarely recommend monthly programs to people. There are plenty of commercial choices to chose from without locking yourself into a monthly fee. Now once you have some experience and knowledge about the process then you may well chose a plan with a monthly membership but starting out I generally do not recommend doing so.

I have personally tried most of the monthly memberships out there and I found that for the most part they are not worth the money, especially if you only have a website or two. Buying something outright makes it much easier to get a good return on the money you spent and that is what it is always about.

Richard

Originally Posted by normanc

As for me I chose to a manual manual link building because its applicable to all. And my main reason is, some of the automatic link building has a payment. And it cost a lot.

Thanks
1 reply

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MervikHaums 14 years ago

Originally Posted by ARVolund

Richard

Hello friend,

do you have any specific recommendation for automatic article submitters?? I mean any highly (or effectively) customizable one?? Thank you very much!
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ocsSEO01

Banned 14 years ago

[DELETED]

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MervikHaums

14 years ago

Originally Posted by normanc

As for me I chose to a manual manual link building because its applicable to all. And my main reason is, some of the automatic link building has a payment. And it cost a lot.

But definitely there will be a cost even if we setup this automation ourselves. The cost is just for the time frame we are going to save!

Originally Posted by ocsSEO01

yes manual submission is better and more effective rather than the automated software submission, and link building is not quantity it is the quality that counts.

I don't think so, just like quality - quantity is also very important.!

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jaratvit

14 years ago

Manual link-building is becoming less and less frequently used in business but it remains to be one of the the most inexpensive and effective ways for small businesses to rank well in the search engines. And it works especially well for local-specific businesses.

Thanks
1 reply

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ARVolund

14 years ago

How is it the most inexpensive. Building links by hand is the MOST expensive way to go. That is of course unless you do not value your time. Personally I do value mine so why would I take hours out of my productive day instead of automating it and spending my time trying to increase my income in other ways.

Richard

Originally Posted by jaratvit

Manual link-building is becoming less and less frequently used in business but it remains to be one of the the most inexpensive and effective ways for small businesses to rank well in the search engines. And it works especially well for local-specific businesses.

Thanks

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steffanlv

14 years ago

Using social media for manual link building has been working very well for the me this past year. I no longer submit original or spun articles to directories or free PR sites.

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samhig

14 years ago

at the end of the day, some work has to be done, if no work needs to be done, if no time needs to be spent then why so many people still fail to succeed online, why are still websites built, turned out to be profitable yet still sold??? Because the owner simply made too much money and became crazy? I guess it's the time and energy they have to put in, maybe sucked.

You can dump a link automatically without thinking whether it's crap, but how about otheres dump a link to your website --- suppose you are running a social media site like wesnare, how would you feel, can I ask you please?!

Children are not popped out from nowhere and money wasn't blowed to our feet by a windfall.

Thanks

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lorrainebiggs

14 years ago

Manual link building is better then automatic as we can get the better idea and easily come to know if the link is approved or not

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Abhi.garg

14 years ago

Manual link building is always good for site and serp.

Thanks

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MervikHaums

14 years ago

Hello guys,

can anybody advice a reliable article submission tool?? I don't mind even if its a paid one.

Thanks.

Thanks

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Profit123

14 years ago

I think manual link building is best, keep the quality up that way.

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dahlgren_m

14 years ago

A good mixture of both!

I automate ( includes outsourcing), or going to in the future:

Social Bookmarking
Profile Links
Video Submission
Some blog commenting

Manual Linking:

Article Directories
Some Blog Commenting
Web 2.0 (Squidoo, hubpages, zimbio)
.edu and .gov
International blog/ forum commenting

Why do something you hate if you can do it automatically!

Thanks

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sousen

14 years ago

Manual link Building processed is 100% unique and organic way to love Google.

Thanks
1 reply

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bay37 14 years ago

Originally Posted by sousen

Manual link Building processed is 100% unique and organic way to love Google.

LOL - epic post.

Yeah, love Google in a unique, organic way and you'll be set for life.

Love it.
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rypher21

14 years ago

manual linkbuilding gives much better results and its for a long term...though there are some automated that gives good results too..

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zenconsultants 14 years ago

Manual is the best option according to me. It gives better results compare to automatic.
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Vince_Altamura

14 years ago

Thanks guys for all the comments. I take the ones from the guys with the highest ranking in WF the most seriously. However, if I go down the semi-automated road, what is the best tool to help?

Thanks

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virtualminded

14 years ago

For everyone who's touting magnetic links, you have a point, but that just doesn't fly for certain types of sites. Especially if you want to get results in a timely manner.

Obviously automation has do be done properly for it to be effective. If you know what you're doing, automation and proper outsourcing will save you so much time and allow you to make a lot more money with that time. With more time you can handle more clients and/or enjoy more free time, instead of spending all day filling out submission fields and sending emails.

Thanks

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JackPowers

14 years ago

Manual to begin with, then full on attack automatic.

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kposs

14 years ago

With link building, as with anything else in business, you should be looking at your return on investment (in this case in terms of time and results). I'm all about effectiveness and efficiency. I like distributing articles because that meets both criteria for me. Whether you automate or outsource, consider what is most effective first, then figure out how to make that process as efficient as possible.

Thanks

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JaxxTiom

14 years ago

I would never recommend automation for a long term / non black hat type of website. This type of link building can catch up with you in many ways. Yes some of your links will probably stick, but this is all a bad practice in my opinion.

I would recommend doing it all by hand.

Thanks

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daalle

14 years ago

I like building link manually, but i also godt links from other who like the content on my site and link to it, i think this is the best way.

By writing good content you can get many links from people who like your content

Thanks

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fanatic123

14 years ago

Manual is always better. Automatic is a lame name for an easy way out. If you do it manually, you can always alter the things according to your requirements.

Thanks

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warner444

14 years ago

I do both, but try to be smart about the Auto stuff. Any auto method needs to be researched and planned. I was using SEO Linkvine, for example, only to discover most of the sites where articles are placed are total crap. I use LFE only to find a few months later 85% of the WPMU blogs were just gone.

Want to know a big secret to get automatic links? Create really good content! Challenge yourself to do better content. I do and maybe one day it will be as good as some I have seen.

Thanks

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Suka

14 years ago

put it this way... you have 10 article directories. you submit to everyday..
submitting to each one manually one at a time could take you what? 30 minutes?

Setting up the automation process to send the same article (spun properly ofcorse) to the 10 same directories will take maybe 5 minutes... then all you do is press submit and go make coffee..

Next come back and check the submit report and make sure all articles are there
Daily article submission complete in 5 minutes rather than 30+ minutes..

The exact same can be applied to bookmark submission, rss submission, pinging everything can be set up once, and all you do is press submit and you are then free to go play on the beach

Still want to do things manually?? :p

Thanks

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Link Building Automatic or Manual? Whats your Option?

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