Higher PR with 301 redirects?

charto911

16 years ago

do you have any other links going back to your site and if so whats the link value in terms of its PR and OBL?

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fun-games

16 years ago

Umm is this for real? I don't think it has anything to do with the fact that you have other sites redirected there. It's obviously due to existing links pointing to your site. PR has almost nothing to do with on-page attributes.

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enigma2k 16 years ago

Yes I have about 4 other links to the domain. Their PR is between 3-6.
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- paulgl 16 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by enigma2k
  
  Yes I have about 4 other links to the domain. Their PR is between 3-6.
  
  Then you've answered your question. If the 31 are PR0 or N/A, then they
  are contributing zip to PR.
  
  Paul
  
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  enigma2k 16 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by paulgl
  
  Then you've answered your question. If the 31 are PR0 or N/A, then they
  are contributing zip to PR.
  
  Paul
  
  But getting PR5 just from 4 backlinks with PR 3-6?!
  
  Thanks
  
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  paulgl 16 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by enigma2k
  
  But getting PR5 just from 4 backlinks with PR 3-6?!
  
  Quite possible. But I suspect that there are a few more floating around that you may
  not know about. Too many people here talk about zillions of backlinks. And fall flat
  on their collective faces. Many threads here talk about get thousands of free
  and quite useless backlinks as if it's going to matter. Look back at some of my posts.
  A handful of high PR, quality backlinks works wonders. It's not attractive because so
  many are hung up on the business of buying, selling, or even giving away methods
  of tons of backlinks.
  
  Paul
  
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Steven Heron

16 years ago

enigma2k, I don't think anyone has answered your question because they don't know the answer. I don't either. I'd be surprised if anyone here does.

I'd love to know though, but we'd really need to register 30 dropped PR4+ domains, along with a brand new PR0 domain, and 301 redirect the 30 PR4+ dropped domains to the PR0 domain, and see the results. I'm not aware of any experiments that have done this, but if anyone does know of any, I'd love to see the study and the results too.

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GuerrillaIM

16 years ago

You can get PR5 with one PR6 link in some cases.

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SledgeHammer

16 years ago

Originally Posted by enigma2k

I have a domain with PR 5 and about 31 domains that have a 301 redirect to his domain.
Now I am wondering if it is really possible that these 31 domains pushed my 1 domain to pagerank 5? These 31 domains were all new and were registered 1 year ago.

One domain's PR will not flow to other with the help of a redirect. That's a fact.

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GuerrillaIM 16 years ago

Originally Posted by SledgeHammer

One domain's PR will not flow to other with the help of a redirect. That's a fact.

Sorry, you are wrong. It does.
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intelinside

16 years ago

I think the flow works backwards.

I had a PR2 domain and then I purchased a new domain and 301 redirected it to this PR2 domain. After a week or so, the new domain had PR2 of its own.

But then I used this new domain as my new site's domain and after 2-3 days it dropped to 0.

So, It seems that redirected domains have no value of their own rather they take the values from the site they are redirecting to.

I may be wrong though

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GuerrillaIM

16 years ago

Originally Posted by intelinside

I think the flow works backwards.

I had a PR2 domain and then I purchased a new domain and 301 redirected it to this PR2 domain. After a week or so, the new domain had PR2 of its own.

But then I used this new domain as my new site's domain and after 2-3 days it dropped to 0.

So, It seems that redirected domains have no value of their own rather they take the values from the site they are redirecting to.

I may be wrong though

People seem to mis-understand what a 301 actually is.

301 Re-direct = permananet redirect

This means that lets say I have PR6 website but I want to change domain names, I can setup a 301 from old domain to new domain and all link juice rankings etc from old site will be passed to new site (assuming you do it right).

It has been a bl*ckhat technique for years to register a domian, spam links at it, then point it to a site you want to rank, this stops your competitors seeing where your links are coming from.

If you are forwarding domains with no inbound links there will be no noticable effect. But if you forwad domains that have lots of backlinks pointed at them you can see the pagerank increase.

But in OP's case it looks like he has got PR value from a few IBL on high PR pages. If a PR6 is almost a PR7 then its common to get at least a PR5 with a single link from it.

Toolbar value means nothing for SEO, it is just an indicator to assess weight of links when taken into consideration with several other factors.

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Peter Gregory

16 years ago

Originally Posted by GuerrillaIM

I can setup a 301 from old domain to new domain and all link juice rankings etc from old site will be passed to new site (assuming you do it right).

I do agree with most of what you have said, but want to clear up that not ALL link juice rankings will be passed in redirect. There is some loss of PR which was confirmed in an interview Eric Enge did with Matt Cutts earlier this year.

Eric Enge interviews Matt Cutts

Eric Enge: Let's say you move from one domain to another and you write yourself a nice little statement that basically instructs the search engine and, any user agent on how to remap from one domain to the other. In a scenario like this, is there some loss in PageRank that can take place simply because the user who originally implemented a link to the site didn't link to it on the new domain?

Matt Cutts: That's a good question, and I am not 100 percent sure about the answer. I can certainly see how there could be some loss of PageRank. I am not 100 percent sure whether the crawling and indexing team has implemented that sort of natural PageRank decay, so I will have to go and check on that specific case. (Note: in a follow on email, Matt confirmed that this is in fact the case. There is some loss of PR through a 301).

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Mike Grant

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Peter Gregory

I do agree with most of what you have said, but want to clear up that not ALL link juice rankings will be passed in redirect. There is some loss of PR which was confirmed in an interview Eric Enge did with Matt Cutts earlier this year.

Eric Enge interviews Matt Cutts

Eric Enge: Let's say you move from one domain to another and you write yourself a nice little statement that basically instructs the search engine and, any user agent on how to remap from one domain to the other. In a scenario like this, is there some loss in PageRank that can take place simply because the user who originally implemented a link to the site didn't link to it on the new domain?

Matt Cutts: That's a good question, and I am not 100 percent sure about the answer. I can certainly see how there could be some loss of PageRank. I am not 100 percent sure whether the crawling and indexing team has implemented that sort of natural PageRank decay, so I will have to go and check on that specific case. (Note: in a follow on email, Matt confirmed that this is in fact the case. There is some loss of PR through a 301).

Redirects do not pass 100%.

The loss of juice is approximate to one link per redirect.

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Peter Gregory 16 years ago

Originally Posted by mgtarheels

Redirects do not pass 100%.

Isn't that what I said or were you just agreeing with me
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- Mike Grant 16 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Peter Gregory
  
  Isn't that what I said or were you just agreeing with me
  
  Yeah
  
  Just putting a figure on it.
  
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GuerrillaIM

16 years ago

Thanks Peter, I had not seen that before, I had suspected but never seen it confirmed.

Well, it goes to show that 301 redirects do pass PR, just not all of it. I also suspect that Google will be doing something to try to detect the difference between someone moving a single domain, and someone who is buying several domains and forwarding them to the same point to try and get a SEO boost.

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Peter Gregory

16 years ago

Originally Posted by GuerrillaIM

Thanks Peter, I had not seen that before, I had suspected but never seen it confirmed.

Well, it goes to show that 301 redirects do pass PR, just not all of it. I also suspect that Google will be doing something to try to detect the difference between someone moving a single domain, and someone who is buying several domains and forwarding them to the same point to try and get a SEO boost.

Probably not a bad suspicion at all, but I can think of instances that would be normal for multiple domains to redirect to the same domain. One that comes to mine is branding opportunities such as craigslist owning the .com and .net and redirecting to the main .org. Also one other instance is when someone buys up common misspellings for the main domain so they can take advantage of type in traffic that could be misspelled. Granted you would probably have to have a pretty decent brand for these to be effective, but those are some examples of reasons sites would do this that would not be underhanded in any way shape for form.

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thesisavenue

16 years ago

good anythink

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barutiwa

Banned 16 years ago

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GuerrillaIM

16 years ago

Originally Posted by barutiwa

Let's say I operate 20 domains off 1 hosting account and I decide to put up a separate index page and distinguishable web sites on that 1 account. Wouldn't Google consider those domains as separate and distinctive; and, therefore each domain will have a independent PageRank from Google?

Yes of course.

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mongooz

16 years ago

Everyone has a different view about this its quite confusing!

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williamkmohr

16 years ago

i am fully confused in page ranking methods, is there is standard or correct Algonquin used for page rank

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intelinside

16 years ago

if it is really possible that these 31 domains pushed my 1 domain to pagerank 5?

No, it is not possible.

Yes, 301 is a best way of moving your sites (or PR) to your new site but they themselves have no value of their own now as they have transferred everything to their new site, but there must be mechanism how things get transfer.

With regards to backlinks, they might check the WHOIS data (domain age,ip,owner info etc) or website content, to figure out whether the site that has been redirected to, has any thing common between them. The more common things exist between the two, the better value will get transferred to the new site.

If not, one might get a domain with 1000 backlinks and then do a 301 redirect to its site to get benefit of those 1000 backlinks but I guess search engines are smart enough to figure this out.

Just out of curiosty, how much additional traffic do you get from these 31 additional domains you got?

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Find

16 years ago

Build web 2.0 sites to generate PR and to share this PR with your 31 domains. These domains have 0PR so this means no link juice for your main site

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GuerrillaIM

16 years ago

I just listened to Matt Cutts live broadcast on webmaster radio. He says 301 re-directs lose a "miniscule" amount of PR as long as you are only forwarding one or two domains. He also says if you are doing lots of domain re-directs they will lose more PR, and if you are trying to "chain" the domains then they may see this as suspicious and its risky to do.

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Mike Grant

16 years ago

Originally Posted by GuerrillaIM

I just listened to Matt Cutts live broadcast on webmaster radio. He says 301 re-directs lose a "miniscule" amount of PR as long as you are only forwarding one or two domains. He also says if you are doing lots of domain re-directs they will lose more PR, and if you are trying to "chain" the domains then they may see this as suspicious and its risky to do.

He didn't say chains are suspicious and risky. Not at all.

He said they absolutely understand and follow even 3 redirects in a chain.

He said anything over 5, most engines will struggle to follow. He did not say it is risky or suspicious.

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paulgl

16 years ago

Originally Posted by enigma2k

I have a domain with PR 5 and about 31 domains that have a 301 redirect to his domain.
Now I am wondering if it is really possible that these 31 domains pushed my 1 domain to pagerank 5? These 31 domains were all new and were registered 1 year ago.

It seems enigma2k has not returned.

If those 31 domains are "new," and just redirecting during their whole life,
I doubt if they had any PR to pass along. So they would not help. One would have
had to build some sort of backlinking program with them. They probably contributed
nothing, as enigma2k kind of sounded like they were redirecting domains. Maybe
even parked and forwarded.

There would only be a risk if one were trying to schmooze google, as always.
Many large, well know websites with popular type-in domains buy each and
every misspelling and forward it to their main site. Or at least buy as much as
they can. I know walmart has walmart, wal-mart and wallmart.

I suppose using 31 domains to do nothing except try and improve PR would
not be a great thing to do. Too time consuming building up PR of 31 sites
to do any good before redirecting.

Paul

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hitmark

16 years ago

Ya this can be the reason, try to get some links pointing to your forums. If the 301 redirect is recently done then wait for few days and see what is happens.