Adsense Arbirtrage Using MSN Adcenter?

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Hey Guys,

I am thinking about trying this method out. I understand Adsense Arbitrage was working like a charm for many adsense publishers back in the day. Obviously now you cannot use adwords to drive traffic to your adsense websites thanks to Google.


However has anyone thought about driving traffic to Adsense websites using MSN Adcenter? Or CPV?

I am thinking of trying this out using MSN Adcenter and driving traffic to a blog website with high paying adsense.

My question is, will I loose my adsense account if I were using this method?
#adcenter #adsense #arbirtrage #msn
  • Profile picture of the author Michael Ten
    sounds like an interesting idea. and i am not sure if you'd lose your account....
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  • Profile picture of the author Vikram73
    Is the CPC on MSN AdCenter low enough (relative to AdSense click throughs) to allow for 'arbitrage' to occur?

    Also - MSN & Yahoo are getting more careful about their SEM - not as hardcore as AdWords mind you.

    Not saying this isn't possible - just throwing out some caution before you potentially lose some very profitable and necessary access to Google/MSN.

    -Vikram
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  • Profile picture of the author syedasim786
    Good Point, I have also been looking into third party PPC networks, and I will probably start with the third party networks. I am going to do some more research to see if arbitrage would be possible. And I might try a campagin for 2 weeks to see how it turns out, if I have more than 4 campaigns that are not making any profit from the aribtrage model using third party engines than I am going to drop this idea.

    I was just wondering if anyone has tried this method before. Or if Google will remove my adsense accounts.
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  • Profile picture of the author bfas
    Great idea in theory, but you will lose your Adsense account. Quickly. Google will see where the traffic is coming from, just as you can track PPC traffic in GA or your logs.

    bfas
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  • Profile picture of the author GuerrillaIM
    I have seen many people in this forum complaining of getting their account banned after doing this. I have never tried it first hand and I don't intend to as I don't want hassle of losing my account.
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    • Profile picture of the author paulgl
      Huge difference between PTC and PPC. Adwords and
      other programs like it are not PTC, but pay per click.
      Perfectly legit. There was some misconception that you
      can't use adwords. It became not cost efective, thus I
      think people took that to mean banned.

      It is a lose-lose proposition. The percentage of clicks you
      get would be so low, you would never recoup the cost.

      I say "never," but I'm sure there is some money to be made somewhere.

      If you had really high keywords, perhaps. But then think logically.
      You would be paying the same rate to get a visitor. How can you
      make more than pennies?

      I'm sure there is somebody here who makes money doing it.

      Ahhh. But then we have the real way to do it.
      You may want to know a little known case study
      https://www.google.com/adsense/stati...calCoding.html

      The trick, according to the google case study, is to get a high
      percentage of buyers for what you are selling. Then, the others
      who visit may be more interested in clicking on an ad.

      So, you should sell something(or get leads) using adwords, put adsense on the
      landing page for the non-buyers.

      Paul
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      • Profile picture of the author johnsmith2011
        There is a common misperception that click arbitrage schemes are prohibited in the Google Adsense program. But a thorough review of Google's terms, conditions and policies will reveal that there is no rule that expressly prohibits this practice.

        What another user pointed out is that Adsense rules prohibit sending "paid to click" traffic to your site. This is not the same as "pay per click" traffic. The first instance is where you are paying a fee for folks to come to your sites and click on your Adsense ads. This violates Google's rules and for good reason.

        The second term is what is described in the original question. An example would be someone who pays to run ads on the MSN Adcenter network in order to drive new traffic to his/her site that displays Google Adsense advertisements. The hope in this case would be that the traffic from Adcenter is sufficiently cheap enough and the Adsense click through rate and earnings per click amount sufficiently large enough to allow you to turn a profit. This is what is called click arbitrage.

        It's not easy but it is possible to do. I am currently running an Adcenter campaign where my average CPC is about .xx cents. I send users over to my site and enough of them eventually click on my ads and I earn $x.xx per click. I've been doing this for about 3 months and am earning approximately $3 for every $1 that I invest in advertising.

        It's perfectly within Google's rules as long as you conform to their landing page guidelines. Likewise, it's within MSN's rules as long as you also conform to their page quality guidelines.
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        • Profile picture of the author 4morereferrals
          Originally Posted by johnsmith2011 View Post

          There is a common misperception that click arbitrage schemes are prohibited in the Google Adsense program. But a thorough review of Google's terms, conditions and policies will reveal that there is no rule that expressly prohibits this practice.

          What another user pointed out is that Adsense rules prohibit sending "paid to click" traffic to your site. This is not the same as "pay per click" traffic. The first instance is where you are paying a fee for folks to come to your sites and click on your Adsense ads. This violates Google's rules and for good reason.

          The second term is what is described in the original question. An example would be someone who pays to run ads on the MSN Adcenter network in order to drive new traffic to his/her site that displays Google Adsense advertisements. The hope in this case would be that the traffic from Adcenter is sufficiently cheap enough and the Adsense click through rate and earnings per click amount sufficiently large enough to allow you to turn a profit. This is what is called click arbitrage.

          It's not easy but it is possible to do. I am currently running an Adcenter campaign where my average CPC is about .xx cents. I send users over to my site and enough of them eventually click on my ads and I earn .xx per click. I've been doing this for about 3 months and am earning approximately $3 for every $1 that I invest in advertising.

          It's perfectly within Google's rules as long as you conform to their landing page guidelines. Likewise, it's within MSN's rules as long as you also conform to their page quality guidelines.
          Good read - thanks for that explanation. I was under the misconception too that PPC traffic to ----> adsense landing pages was taboo ... but during some Adsense KW research - I found a rather prominent multi-zillion page site doing exactly that ... buying cheap clicks on page 2 of the organic results and landing the traffic on a page laden with higher cpc rate adsense offers.

          PPC and arbitrage not in my skillset - but is rather intriguing ...
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          • Profile picture of the author F1SEO
            I think any kind of arbitrage will not be so good with Google, if detected.

            Bringin people on a cheap keyword to a high paying niche adsense page got pretty much stamped out by G, at least from Adwords to Adsense. Using MSN rather than Adwords is just doing the same thing and I think you may risk your relationship with G.
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  • Profile picture of the author superSEO2011
    I wouldn't do anything to annoy big G!
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  • Profile picture of the author Zeb
    I think the terms are not to use paid traffic to ur adsense sites. I wouldn't risk an adsense account using the methods mentioned in this thread...
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  • Profile picture of the author Teleologist
    Where in Google's TOS is doing adsense arbitrage forbidden? I haven't been able to find anything that says this.
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    • Profile picture of the author johnsmith2011
      Originally Posted by Teleologist View Post

      Where in Google's TOS is doing adsense arbitrage forbidden? I haven't been able to find anything that says this.
      If folks would take the time to thoroughly read and understand the Adsense terms of service and policies, they'd realize that arbitrage is not prohibited. That's not to say you can slap up a half-empty page, throw some Adsense ads on it and start bringing in PPC traffic from Adcenter and expect not to run afoul of the Google cops.

      You have to conform to all of the Adsense page quality rules. You have to have relevant and useful content.

      Read the Program Policies section about "Traffic Sources" and you'll see what I mean:
      "Google ads may not be placed on pages receiving traffic from certain sources. ...
      To ensure a positive experience for Internet users and Google advertisers, sites displaying Google ads may not:
      Receive traffic from online advertising unless the site complies with the spirit of Google's Landing Page Quality Guidelines. For instance, users should easily be able to find what your ad promises. "

      The operative word here is "UNLESS". You cannot receive traffic from online advertising (read, MSN Adcenter traffic) UNLESS the site complies with the spirit of Google's landing page quality guidelines.

      You basically need your site to comply with the quality guidelines set up for both the Adsense and Adwords programs. If you do so, you should have no problems bringing in traffic from a source like MSN Adcenter.

      Personal Update: I've been purchasing traffic from Adcenter and sending users to my site which runs Adsense ads for approximately three months now, and the results have been spectacular.

      Give it time. You may not see a profit right away. In my first month, I barely broke even. But I think that's because Google withheld credit for many of my clicks during my first month, only to release the funds the following month.

      Last month was my best month ever in the four years I've been in the Adsense program. January 2011 is starting out even better. Sunday and Monday of this week have been my best 2 days EVER in terms of revenue. By far.
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      • Profile picture of the author Boris_yo
        I understand that if your website complies with AdSense and AdWords website quality guidelines, then you are allowed to do arbitrage?

        Maybe i am missing a boat, but i don't want to risk it.
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        • Profile picture of the author paulgl
          Yes, you are allowed to use PPC. BUT...and this is a HUGE BUT....

          It is a lose-lose proposition.

          Back in the day, PPC was easily managed, defeated, and cheap.
          Those days are over. You are now competing against sly players
          and PPC programs that are not as lax. Is MSN any less interested
          in quality landing pages?

          There is no way you will ever profit by expecting adsense clicks via
          PPC. The math does not work out.

          You should have a viable service that gets interested clicks. But, some
          visitors don't exactly like yours and would like more info. Then you can collect
          a few pennies from adsense. But it would pale in comparison to what
          you are selling or offering up front.

          In order for adsense to work on pages advertised in PPC, you must have a
          profitable product to sell up front. Adsense is a distant second.

          The primary reason for using PPC is not for an adsense click.

          Paul
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          • Profile picture of the author johnsmith2011
            Wow. I guess some people aren't satisfied no matter how I put it, are they?

            I have made good money doing Adcenter to Adsense arbitrage in the financial services sector. I've been doing it for months with tremendously profitable results. I'm paying an average .25 cents CPC on adcenter and making 10 to 20 times that amount per click on Adsense. My click through rate is healthy enough to earn a profit.

            Why do folks continue to say this is either "risky" or prohibited? Read the program rules. There's nothing risky or prohibited if you're following the program rules.

            No you don't need a redirect page. I actually think that might violate landing page quality guidelines dictated by MSN.

            I don't understand why folks here think you have to approach this dishonestly or try to game the system or figure out which keywords are the highest paying and then build your site around those keywords.

            All you have to do is succeed in the Adsense program is create a quality web site and get people to visit it. No scams. No nonsense. Just make good web sites and get people to visit them.
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            • Profile picture of the author Gunedat
              Seems there are interesting point of views being posted. Personally, I would like to try this strategy.
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              • Profile picture of the author VedoMedia
                Arbitrage is not allowed, however, if your site is promoting something/product of some sort and gives value to the user, and you decide to put up adsense on it as well, that is fine.

                However, the site should not be made for adsense.
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                • Profile picture of the author johnsmith2011
                  Originally Posted by VedoMedia View Post

                  Arbitrage is not allowed, however, if your site is promoting something/product of some sort and gives value to the user, and you decide to put up adsense on it as well, that is fine.

                  However, the site should not be made for adsense.

                  Vedo,
                  You are incorrect. There is nothing in Adsense's rules that prohibits arbitrage or the use of PPC sources of traffic. Read the user agreement and terms of use. If you can cite something that I may have missed, I'd greatly appreciate it. But I have thoroughly read Adsense policies and this type of traffic is NOT prohibited and I've used it off and on for the last 4 years.

                  I urge you to cite the section that you think prohibits this activity. I suspect you've made the mistake of confusing PPC traffic with PTC traffic. PTC is expressly prohibited by adsense, and with good reason.
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                  • Profile picture of the author VedoMedia
                    Arbitrage is not allowed and I'll tell you why. According to Google, they will not accept those "made for adsense" sites for ppc traffic from adwords.

                    You can try all you want, but 99 percent of the time if they see a bunch of adsense ads and no content, or barley any user benefit, they will not allow it.

                    You can read more about their landing page quality system on their adwords help section.


                    Arbitrage in my opinion, are adsense made sites, since if I throw up an ad in a already established site and authority site, I'm not really expecting people to click on it and only have it there for some extra revenue if need be.

                    Also if you do arbitrage and keep on submitting these poor landing pages, your account will get suspended eventually. So add value to the user first, and then if you have room I would advise only adding one ad slot or 2 max on the landing page, but definitely dont try for the ads to be your main revenue source...
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                    • Profile picture of the author johnsmith2011
                      Originally Posted by VedoMedia View Post

                      Arbitrage is not allowed and I'll tell you why. According to Google, they will not accept those "made for adsense" sites for ppc traffic from adwords.

                      You can try all you want, but 99 percent of the time if they see a bunch of adsense ads and no content, or barley any user benefit, they will not allow it.

                      You can read more about their landing page quality system on their adwords help section.


                      Arbitrage in my opinion, are adsense made sites, since if I throw up an ad in a already established site and authority site, I'm not really expecting people to click on it and only have it there for some extra revenue if need be.

                      Also if you do arbitrage and keep on submitting these poor landing pages, your account will get suspended eventually. So add value to the user first, and then if you have room I would advise only adding one ad slot or 2 max on the landing page, but definitely dont try for the ads to be your main revenue source...
                      Vedo,
                      Thank you for the input and I'll explain why I disagree with you.
                      First, Adsense or other PPC programs are the primary source of revenue for many, many sites. Take a newspaper for example. They're not there to sell you anything. Most provide web content free of charge. This is a resource and they use either an in-house advertising program or they contract with a provider like Google for PPC and PPI programs.

                      The key is that the newspaper is in and of itself a valuable resource. There's nothing wrong with monetizing such a valuable resource while giving away content for free.

                      In my case, I'm a former newspaper writer who happens to have excellent writing skills. The sites I create are always 100 percent unique, well written and highly informative. I don't launch a site until it is complete with many, many pages of valuable, original content. I want to give that content away to my readers for free and I frequently update it with blog postings and new subject matter. I can earn a nice income by placing Adsense ads on the pages. I can do even better when I advertise my site and bring in more readers through Adcenter.

                      Newspapers and other media do the same thing. They constantly advertise their product and web site on the radio, tv and sometimes even through online advertising - all in hopes of attracting an ever larger readership base.

                      I think you're making a seriously faulty assumption that informational sites whose sole source of revenue is Adsense somehow fall into the MFA category. Are my sites intended to earn me money? Of course. But are they of low quality with little original content? No. They're great sites with excellent information and excellent writing.

                      Further, you're trying to discourage folks from fully monetizing a page by placing fewer ad blocks on it. Why? This makes no sense. Adsense has rules that state how many sets of ads you can have on each page of your site. As long as your site conforms to their quality guidelines and you don't exceed the limits on ad blocks they place on you, there's nothing to worry about.

                      I don't understand the paranoia here about Adsense. Make a good site. Bring in visitors. Earn money. It's a very simple premise.
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