How Many Backlinks?

14 years ago

Here is what I do:

On a new site no more than 50 per week.

Make the first 50 as high quality as possible (.edu, .gov, high page rank & authority sites).

As your site grows and becomes more popular you can slowly start adding more than 50 per week.

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Doug Slaton

14 years ago

I add them little by little while some folks really pour them on. My research indicates it's not so much how many as it is how consistent you are in getting them.

So whatever number you pick 10, 20 or even 100 a day the secret sauce is to continue getting about that same number everyday.

Some sites just naturally go ballistic with people linking back to them. But I'd say the majority of sites out there make a site owner earn every single back link and I'll bet that Google knows this too.

So if you don't have a crazy hot site you probably want to go easy on backlinks, just my thoughts.

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russmarsha 14 years ago

I also wonder about this, but one thing i keep reading, and it makes sense is that google shouldnt penalize you for over linking, otherwise your competitors would do it to knock you out.

Russ
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LetsGoViral

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TheCG

With all of the talk about backlinks and how you need them for rank, at what rate do you guys add them?

Is it a couple a day, 100 a day or more?

How many is too many before you get into trouble with Google?

I know that no one here will know an absolute answer but I am just trying to get an adea of what the long term folks do.

Appreciate the assist.

The amount of backlinks required to rank well purely relies on the competition for the specific keyword or keyphrase.

When I open a new site I run a quick backlink campaign through some regular tools, bookmark it, reddit, digg it, social media and all that jazz. Then I leave it alone for a while and backlink it whenever I see an opportunity. For example, reading a blog on a relevant topic or answering questions in some forum. This seems to work well in the long term.

Of course, some backlink packs from time to time do not hurt at all. But again - I am doing this since I choose relatively low competition phrases. If you want to rank with the big boys you will have to bring in the big toys (expensive SEO tools and the like).

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bgmacaw

14 years ago

You should get links very, very, slowly, especially if you're competing in the same niches I'm working in.

Really, what matters is the authority of the links you're getting, not how quickly or how many.

Here's something to think about. When icanhascheezburger launches a new domain, they'll link to it from all of their other sites, giving it about 125K links right out of the box. It will gain more and more links quickly as people find something funny there. They aren't penalized for this at all but it's likely that the new site go to the top of search results and stay there. You'll see the same thing happen when other networks such as TMZ, Huffington Post, ZDNet or Breitbart launch new sites. Building a network of mutually supportive authority sites rules.

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subashchandrapoudel

14 years ago

There is no backlink limit.

You can accumulate 100000 links each day.
But you can get into problem if today you got just two links in a day and the other day you get 10000 links.

So there is no limit but you should not get a big bump , go slowly and gradually.

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brendanwenzel

14 years ago

I agree with the bgmacaw about the authority of the link. It's also important to have relevant links from sites that are in the same niche as yours. So you get authority and related links in your on your way and you don't need as many.

As far as the number if you're working on a brand-new site I would try to keep it under about 100 a month for the first six months and then you can start moving up the number from there. That's just my opinion.

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TheCG

14 years ago

Originally Posted by brendanwenzel

I agree with the bgmacaw about the authority of the link. It's also important to have relevant links from sites that are in the same niche as yours. So you get authority and related links in your on your way and you don't need as many.

As far as the number if you're working on a brand-new site I would try to keep it under about 100 a month for the first six months and then you can start moving up the number from there. That's just my opinion.

What if you have a hard time finding places to backlink in your niche? One of my niches is very small (at least there aren't many places to post for links in it) so I have been linking to whatever I could just to get them.

What would you recommend in this case?

Thanks!

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dawnbreaker

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TheCG

Base from the interviews and to other SEO contractors... They told me that google allows only for 5-7backlinks per hour....

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Ouroboros

14 years ago

If I understand the google algorythmn(sp?) correctly, and no one does...

Backlinks, like anything else, should appear natural.

A new site with few links that suddenly has hundreds...hmm?

Adding links at a rate that increases over time would be my advice, and if you have a sudden news item in your niche that you have the scoop on, make a post you're proud of and backlink the hell out of it.

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birddog200

14 years ago

The quality of the site linking in are important. But large numbers of link help too.
I see some saying that you have to make it look natural, and don't build to many at once. "This is False"
I build thousands one day and leave it till next time I feel like building links. None of my approx. 200 site get sand boxed or penalized. I usually stay within the first 5 results on page 1.
Just build your links and get some quality one in there also.

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TheCG

14 years ago

Originally Posted by birddog200

The quality of the site linking in are important. But large numbers of link help too.
I see some saying that you have to make it look natural, and don't build to many at once. "This is False"
I build thousands one day and leave it till next time I feel like building links. None of my approx. 200 site get sand boxed or penalized. I usually stay within the first 5 results on page 1.
Just build your links and get some quality one in there also.

OK, this is something I have been wanting to ask someone and you sound perfect for it.

With 200 sites, what kind of routine do you have for keeping them up?

Right now I am manually backlinking, outsourcing some social bookmarking and backlinking, doing some article marketing (manually to each site myself) and making the articles into videos and sending them out to a dozen or so video sites with a video submitter.

Doing these things for just a few sites is very time intensive so how in the heck do you do it for 200 and as I asked earlier, if you don't mind sharing, what is your routine for this?

Thanks alot!

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birddog200

14 years ago

I have to outsource almost everything. I will do some stuff myself, like customer service on new sites. But just until the people I outsource to know all of the correct answers to the questions, Then I turn the new site over to them as well.
Outsourcing is so cheap, I don't know why everyone doesn't do it.

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derh

14 years ago

Originally Posted by birddog200

I have to outsource almost everything. I will do some stuff myself, like customer service on new sites. But just until the people I outsource to know all of the correct answers to the questions, Then I turn the new site over to them as well.
Outsourcing is so cheap, I don't know why everyone doesn't do it.

May I ask who your outsourcing companies are...I'm having time finding trustworthy companies that are within my price range.

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bgmacaw

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Ouroboros

A new site with few links that suddenly has hundreds...hmm?

It happens all the time and quite naturally.

Other than the examples I mentioned above...

Sites go viral all the time and get tons of links very rapidly. For example, the "Don't touch my junk" guy's blog just got 1000's of links in about a day, many of them tasty news authority links (too bad he doesn't know junk about onsite SEO).

Sites get added to sitewide links such as top/recent comments, footer links, blogroll links and such quite frequently, resulting in 100's of links overnight in some cases. Some people around here have a panic attack when this happens but it's completely natural.

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halmo

14 years ago

Originally Posted by bgmacaw

It happens all the time and quite naturally.

Other than the examples I mentioned above...

Sites go viral all the time and get tons of links very rapidly. For example, the "Don't touch my junk" guy's blog just got 1000's of links in about a day, many of them tasty news authority links (too bad he doesn't know junk about onsite SEO).

Sites get added to sitewide links such as top/recent comments, footer links, blogroll links and such quite frequently, resulting in 100's of links overnight in some cases. Some people around here have a panic attack when this happens but it's completely natural.

Doesn't Google relate the number of sudden backlinks to the amount of traffic when it decides whether it seems natural or not? e.g if there is a new site, and suddenly 10,000 new backlinks appears with no or very little traffic - isn't that when google gets concerned?

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bgmacaw

14 years ago

Originally Posted by halmo

Doesn't Google relate the number of sudden backlinks to the amount of traffic when it decides whether it seems natural or not?

Google doesn't have this data if the site doesn't have Analytics installed and, even if the site has it, they've claimed many times not to use this data for ranking search position.

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halmo

14 years ago

Originally Posted by bgmacaw

Google doesn't have this data if the site doesn't have Analytics installed and, even if the site has it, they've claimed many times not to use this data for ranking search position.

Interesting. Never knew before that analytics had to be installed even for google to know the traffic of any site for themselves.

So, why is there so much talk about ensuring that people build links slowly. I understand that some high authority and well-established sites can launch new sites quickly with great exposure, but even if google doesn't use your analytics data, they can easily know the age of the domain.

I know there are difference in opinion about link building fast (or slowly), but there seem to be a consensus among many people that google places great emphasis on linkbuilding looking natural. Hence the many advice for slow linkbuilding.

Just trying to sort out this issue and see the underlying things -- what is true, what it not among all the things I hear.

Thanks
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bgmacaw

14 years ago

Originally Posted by halmo

So, why is there so much talk about ensuring that people build links slowly.

Several reasons.

1. Voodoo (aka wishful thinking) SEO.

2. A SEO 'guru' said it.

3. Lack of confidence in the value of their site(s).

4. Trying to fit link building into a tidy pattern when, in the real world, it's very chaotic.

I could probably think of a few more if I thought about.

Originally Posted by halmo

even if google doesn't use your analytics data, they can easily know the age of the domain.

Currently they don't appear to use domain age info directly in their ranking algorithms although I think this may change as they try to blunt the influence of exact match domains, domain flipping and expiring domain buying. They do track link age though and use this in ranking which can give the impression that they're using domain age. (This is something I figured out after spending a few hundred dollars on 10+ year old domains that weren't established domains.)

Originally Posted by halmo

I know there are difference in opinion about link building fast (or slowly), but there seem to be a consensus among many people that google places great emphasis on linkbuilding looking natural.

Natural, in this context, means statistically natural which means how well a particular linking pattern fits into probability distributions, Bayesian analysis and other such complex statistics. Patterns can be used to predict outcomes, sources and such but there are limits to how well this will work. Entropy (aka chaos) in large systems like the Internet make accurate, large scale, predictions very unreliable so they have to stick to searching for well known patterns and ignore outliers and other anomalies.

Oops, I almost started a lecture on statistics and chaos theory again. Better stop before peoples' eyes glaze over...

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halmo

14 years ago

Originally Posted by bgmacaw

Natural, in this context, means statistically natural which means how well a particular linking pattern fits into probability distributions, Bayesian analysis and other such complex statistics. Patterns can be used to predict outcomes, sources and such but there are limits to how well this will work. Entropy (aka chaos) in large systems like the Internet make accurate, large scale, predictions very unreliable so they have to stick to searching for well known patterns and ignore outliers and other anomalies.

Oops, I almost started a lecture on statistics and chaos theory again. Better stop before peoples' eyes glaze over...

Thanks

I have actually always liked statistics, so I enjoyed the bits of statistics in your explanation.

So, are you saying that Google uses pattern detection for each site (which is what I have believed); and not on the scale of the Internet (due to the scale of chaos)? Obviously, they must still take Internet-scale patterns into account in some ways, but the individual site statistics must be the ruling fact for their rankings and other decisions.

I actually asked my original questions also in terms of ensuring that a new site doesn't get un-indexed or sandboxed by Google. Obviously, if a site gets ranked anywhere, it must have not been un-indexed, But where is the line where a new site would risk being un-indexed or sandboxed due to linkbuilding practices that Google might not like, or to any other practices? I know there might be no fine line, but at least an estimated line.

Thanks
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bgmacaw

14 years ago

Originally Posted by halmo

So, are you saying that Google uses pattern detection for each site (which is what I have believed); and not on the scale of the Internet (due to the scale of chaos)?

Of course, I don't know exactly what they do but I can make guesses based on my long experience in software development and education in statistics. My guess is that they use a relatively small database (aka sample set) of known spamming patterns/techniques to determine what a site is doing. Due to the chaotic nature of the Internet they have to use rather tight pattern analysis. I also haven't seen any convincing evidence that this is a direct analysis of a site but simply matching site datapoints to known pattern datapoints.

In other words, a natural linking pattern is a chaotic pattern or one that does not fit a set known pattern. On the flipside, the more common and publicized a particular pattern becomes, say, for example, popular profile link packets, the more likely patterns associated with it will end up in the pattern database.

Originally Posted by halmo

But where is the line where a new site would risk being un-indexed or sandboxed due to linkbuilding practices that Google might not like, or to any other practices?

The risk is in matching enough patterns, getting reported a lot in Webmaster Tools or bragging about how you beat Google enough for Google to do a semi-automated or manual quality review. Some site types will get deindexed immediately and automatically upon detection, such as those built using YACG, BANS or other affiliate/content scrapping scripts. Some get a cursory glance by a visual inspector who makes a quick determination based on the look of the index page. Others get singled out for a more in detailed proctologist style investigation.

But really, all you need to do in order to avoid trouble is to build the most authoritative links you can using patterns that not everyone and their sister's brother's cousin is using, use good basic onsite SEO and have decent, keyword relevant, content. If you do this, in most cases, you'll attract additional unsolicited links and rank high and be more or less stable in your rankings.

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halmo

14 years ago

Originally Posted by bgmacaw

Of course, I don't know exactly what they do but I can make guesses based on my long experience in software development and education in statistics. My guess is that they use a relatively small database (aka sample set) of known spamming patterns/techniques to determine what a site is doing. Due to the chaotic nature of the Internet they have to use rather tight pattern analysis. I also haven't seen any convincing evidence that this is a direct analysis of a site but simply matching site datapoints to known pattern datapoints.

In other words, a natural linking pattern is a chaotic pattern or one that does not fit a set known pattern. On the flipside, the more common and publicized a particular pattern becomes, say, for example, popular profile link packets, the more likely patterns associated with it will end up in the pattern database.

The risk is in matching enough patterns, getting reported a lot in Webmaster Tools or bragging about how you beat Google enough for Google to do a semi-automated or manual quality review. Some site types will get deindexed immediately and automatically upon detection, such as those built using YACG, BANS or other affiliate/content scrapping scripts. Some get a cursory glance by a visual inspector who makes a quick determination based on the look of the index page. Others get singled out for a more in detailed proctologist style investigation.

But really, all you need to do in order to avoid trouble is to build the most authoritative links you can using patterns that not everyone and their sister's brother's cousin is using, use good basic onsite SEO and have decent, keyword relevant, content. If you do this, in most cases, you'll attract additional unsolicited links and rank high and be more or less stable in your rankings.

Very good points. Great discussion. Thanks.

Thanks

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TheCG 14 years ago

[QUOTE=bgmacaw;2896462]
Currently they don't appear to use domain age info directly in their ranking algorithms although I think this may change as they try to blunt the influence of exact match domains, domain flipping and expiring domain buying. They do track link age though and use this in ranking which can give the impression that they're using domain age. (This is something I figured out after spending a few hundred dollars on 10+ year old domains that weren't established domains.)

I cannot count the number of times I have been told to add on time to a domain to give me an edge over a competing site because Google likes for it to look like you are going to be around for a while.

The reasons generally given are that spam sites usually only register for year.
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BlogTyrant

14 years ago

To be honest it is so messy it is hard to tell.

What does work very well, however, is to put up backlinks at a staggered rate when you get on the front page of Delicious.com or Stumble. Make them look organic.

I don't do this type of thing on Blog Tyrant but I did on a different project a few years ago with lots of unrestricted success.

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dndoseller

14 years ago

I find no matter how many you add it takes a while for Google to discover and index them anyway. I'd keep it in the hundreds per day max.

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tpw

14 years ago

I stick to any number I can do consistently for several weeks.

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dadamson

14 years ago

To me its all about quality, consistancy, and permanency. Do as many as you can from places with high pr, ensure they will not be deleted or moderated out and get some contextual links where possible.

Consistency really is the key, so if you build loads one month, build loads the next month, building momentum has proven to be very successful for both myself and my clients

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scott g

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Ryan Even

Here is what I do:

On a new site no more than 50 per week.

Make the first 50 as high quality as possible (.edu, .gov, high page rank & authority sites).

As your site grows and becomes more popular you can slowly start adding more than 50 per week.

Originally Posted by Doug Slaton

I add them little by little while some folks really pour them on. My research indicates it's not so much how many as it is how consistent you are in getting them.

So whatever number you pick 10, 20 or even 100 a day the secret sauce is to continue getting about that same number everyday.

Some sites just naturally go ballistic with people linking back to them. But I'd say the majority of sites out there make a site owner earn every single back link and I'll bet that Google knows this too.

So if you don't have a crazy hot site you probably want to go easy on backlinks, just my thoughts.

Between yesterday and today, I created somewhere around 250 backlinks. Now, I may not get credit for all of them but I'm going to try my damn hardest!

Pinged and meta indexed all 250 URLs, as well as created 5 RSS Feeds (50 links in each) that I blasted out to RSS Directories today! Ya know, to help backlink my backlinks... because the quicker they're indexed the quicker I get credit!!

My new site will be 2 weeks old on Sunday and it has about 900 BL inks according to Y! and about 600 BLinks according to my G Webmaster Tools.

It's a very competitive niche... I moved up 76 spots today, compared to two days ago, in the Google SERPs! LOL! 181 to 105!

How sad!

CHEERS!

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TheCG

14 years ago

Originally Posted by scott g

Between yesterday and today, I created somewhere around 250 backlinks. Now, I may not get credit for all of them but I'm going to try my damn hardest!

Pinged and meta indexed all 250 URLs, as well as created 5 RSS Feeds (50 links in each) that I blasted out to RSS Directories today! Ya know, to help backlink my backlinks... because the quicker they're indexed the quicker I get credit!!

My new site will be 2 weeks old on Sunday and it has about 900 BL inks according to Y! and about 600 BLinks according to my G Webmaster Tools.

It's a very competitive niche... I moved up 76 spots today, compared to two days ago, in the Google SERPs! LOL! 181 to 105!

How sad!

CHEERS!

OK, how do I do this?

"Pinged and meta indexed all 250 URLs, as well as created 5 RSS Feeds (50 links in each) that I blasted out to RSS Directories today! Ya know, to help backlink my backlinks... "

I know about pinging a new post on your site, I do that every time with pingler, pingoat, etc. Is it the same?

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scott g

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TheCG

OK, how do I do this?

"Pinged and meta indexed all 250 URLs, as well as created 5 RSS Feeds (50 links in each) that I blasted out to RSS Directories today! Ya know, to help backlink my backlinks... "

I know about pinging a new post on your site, I do that every time with pingler, pingoat, etc. Is it the same?

HERE'S A GOOD ONE GUYS:

No it's different. Say you go to this squidoo lens and post a comment with your KEYWORDs as the hyperlink.... First of all, this lens is PR3 and the comment links are DOFOLLOW!

What I do is copy this squidoo lens' URL (because my backlinks is at this URL). I would then ping and meta index this squidoo lens' URL and create an RSS feed with a link to this lens' URL (along with many other URLs that contain a link back to my site). Backlinking my backlinks basically to ensure I get credit for them!

It's just like pinging a brand new post on my blog - I want the Search Engines to find it and index it right? Well, I want the searches engines to re-crawl and re-index this squidoo lens so that they give me credit for my backlink!

Does this make sense?

I create all of my RSS Feeds myself. This thread describes in detail how I create Valid RSS Feeds with 50+ URLs from different sites using Textpad, Notepad, or Wordpad.

Hope this helps a little!

CHEERS!

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TheCG

14 years ago

Originally Posted by scott g

HERE'S A GOOD ONE GUYS:

No it's different. Say you go to this squidoo lens and post a comment with your KEYWORDs as the hyperlink.... First of all, this lens is PR3 and the comment links are DOFOLLOW!

What I do is copy this squidoo lens' URL (because my backlinks is at this URL). I would then ping and meta index this squidoo lens' URL and create an RSS feed with a link to this lens' URL (along with many other URLs that contain a link back to my site). Backlinking my backlinks basically to ensure I get credit for them!

It's just like pinging a brand new post on my blog - I want the Search Engines to find it and index it right? Well, I want the searches engines to re-crawl and re-index this squidoo lens so that they give me credit for my backlink!

Does this make sense?

I create all of my RSS Feeds myself. This thread describes in detail how I create Valid RSS Feeds with 50+ URLs from different sites using Textpad, Notepad, or Wordpad.

Hope this helps a little!

CHEERS!

OK, I think I understand it.

You post a comment on a blog then you take the URL from the blog post you commented on and submit it to pingler or pingoat or a like service.

About the RSS feeds.......I will have to read that post you named because while I have heard of them, I do not know how to do any of that yet. LOL

Thanks!

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rolough

14 years ago

Consistency is key. If you build 100 backlinks in one day, then the next week you stop, then one day again you build 250 links, Google will probably sandbox you. Slow and steady wins the race, while being consistent.

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dawnbreaker

14 years ago

I also read that if you backlink on 10 blogs/websites with PR+5, your backlink is same or equal to 500 backlinks with no PR's...

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alexhudson000 14 years ago

blog commenting is the best way to have more backlinks
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Jason Perez O'Connor

14 years ago

build how you like, if link building could harm your site, I think we'd have a lot of complaining affiliates saying their competition took them out!

Just remember, a press release, or any number of other reasons could net you alot of links.

What's google gonna say? "hey jimmie, that site of yours had too many incomming links last tuesday at 8 pm, its the sandbox for you"! Ofcourse not. What I would say is to make sure you get good quality links (doesn't always have to be relevant either) and to beat opponents research the locations of their links etc.

P.S how can people be naive enough to think google would punish a site because sometimes it acquires more links at one go? common sense people.

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SGdarling

14 years ago

there is no limit for backlinks, but you have to keep building them regularly. According to my experience if the site is new, it is better to start from a small number of daily or weekly link growth and increase it each month. It will look natual for the search engines. Also you need to build links from different types of sites and pages.

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dawnbreaker

14 years ago

I would like to share this to you... I have an SEO friend and told me that "You need to do at least 75-100 backlinks a day... Then Google will not sandbox you site/blog"

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scott g

14 years ago

Originally Posted by dawnbreaker

I would like to share this to you... I have an SEO friend and told me that "You need to do at least 75-100 backlinks a day... Then Google will not sandbox you site/blog"

75 to 100 a day so I don't get sandboxed!? Damn I better get on that! I've only made like 5 today LOL! And Google has only seemed to have found a couple out of the hundreds I did the last couple days

Patience Grasshopper.

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Eager2SEO

14 years ago

I add 10-15 a day. Some guy here who claims to have hundreds of sites showed a month old site that had 3000+ paid backlinks (and they are PR 0-3 autoblog type links). His site ranks #1 for the keyword. So there goes the back link myth. I think he knows what he is doing and where to get links from.

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aldovacano

14 years ago

there are lots of factor that you have to take care while building backlinks to your site.

The first thing you need to learn is that your backlink building process must look like normal so google dont flag your site, for example if you site is new and have only few pages it wont make sense that it get lots of backlinks from start.

also a site without traffic could not make sense for google how this site is getting backlinks from other and it doesnt get any traffic?

my best advice is to get some good backlinks from high ranking sites and also keep working on your backlinks everyday so it will look normal to google that your site is adding new backlinks everyday.

good luck there.

Thanks

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