Does Anyone Really Know Keyword Research?

16 years ago

It is possible to rank for ANY keyword! At least every time I do a search on anything, there is always a site in the page one, #1 position

.

And there are millions of long tail keywords where you can rank really quickly, like almost immediately.

I don't think method is your problem, but rather it doesn't sound like you know what is it you are after. With the list of products you own, it sounds more like you are looking for a silver bullet, and that just doesn't exist in the real world.

There are free training videos over at the Market Samurai Dojo that can explain how to find profitable keywords.

A free step-by-step training course that covers the whole gamut of market research, putting up a site, generating traffic, and conversion is available at:

The Challenge « The Challenge

The criteria there is to teach the method with something that you can rank for and monetize relatively easily. The idea is to make your first dollar online, and then you can scale up to making more money.

BTW, the criteria that trumps everything else is action since that is how learning actually takes place.

Marvin

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SingerRinging

16 years ago

A good source for this is the AdwordAnalyzer.com. Just type this into your search engine. I found it very useful. You want something with "low" competition. Not a lot of search results, so that your Keywords stand out from the crowd. Does this make sense?

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Dan C. Rinnert

16 years ago

Step 1: Pick a bunch of keywords related to your niche.

Step 2: Type them up and put them in an 18 pt. sans serif font in Word, double-spaced.

Step 3: Print.

Step 4: Cut to separate each keyword and/or keyword phrase.

Step 5: Pin to a dart board.

Step 6: Throw five to ten darts.

Step 7: Note the keywords the darts landed on and use those.

Step 8: Repeat if necessary.

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CDarklock 16 years ago

Originally Posted by Dan C. Rinnert

Step 7: Note the keywords the darts landed on and use those.

Statistically, this is equivalent to "use the longest keywords" in the long run.
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- JohnMcCabe 16 years ago
  
  Effective keyword research is part art, part science and part voodoo.
  
  It has to be that way. Otherwise, every person using the same tool would come up with the same results.
  
  I'd say you have way too many tools, and not enough time in the saddle with any of them to rely on them.
  
  My best advice is to pick one and work with it. Try stuff, see what works for you. Learn the strong points and weak points, and whether you end up with keywords you can rank for.
  
  You may find out that the one you chose initially doesn't suit the way you work or work well with the type of niches you are drawn to.
  
  When you find the one that works for you, stick to it until it no longer works for you.
  
  As far as competition, for most searches you competition is whatever is on page one of the search results, including the organic results, the ads, the related searches, search box and the back button.
  
  Some searches, particularly those targeting earlier steps in the buying process, can give you decent traffic even if you're on page two or three. These are generally high search volume, low competition keywords not directly related to buying intent. Larger, authority sites tend to to better on this type of search because you can lead the searcher through the process right on your site.
  
  I don't know if this helps, but I hope so...
  
  Thanks
  
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benintheworld

Banned 16 years ago

Originally Posted by Dan C. Rinnert

Step 1: Pick a bunch of keywords related to your niche.

Step 2: Type them up and put them in an 18 pt. sans serif font in Word, double-spaced.

Step 3: Print.

Step 4: Cut to separate each keyword and/or keyword phrase.

Step 5: Pin to a dart board.

Step 6: Throw five to ten darts.

Step 7: Note the keywords the darts landed on and use those.

Step 8: Repeat if necessary.

This is so cool!

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FrankBowman 16 years ago

Personally I use market Samurai and the Google Keyword Tool, thats it.

But thats only part of the equation. KW research and SEO go hand in hand. The problem is its almost like the chicken and the egg problem.

If you know SEO, KW research is much simpler because you can rank for KWs with high competition.

If you know KW research but are SEO ignorant, you're probably not going to get anywhere either.

My point is, learn some seo, find a kw with exact match search volume of 10K or less, try and get an exact match domain or an exact match plus one word at the end like "site" or "blog" and start adding content and backlinks, a lot of backlinks, to the site.

See how long it takes you to get to the top 2 listings on page 1. I say the top 2 because just being on page one doesn't mean tons of money. Most of the clicks on page one go to the top 2 listings, in fact clicks to positions 3 thru 10 don't add up to as many as 1 and 2.

See how long and how much work it takes and then adjust. If you see its taking too long, then move down to a kw with 5000 exact matches or less.

This is not going to happen over night, it takes time. There is no silver bullet, if there was, places like the Warrior Forum wouldn't exist and everybody would be working from their laptop on a beach in Aruba.

Good luck
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CDarklock

16 years ago

Originally Posted by smartsites

All I want to know is how I can find keywords that I really can rank with.

Make them up.

I made a single post in this forum once with the word "buburuboo" in it.

And right now, that post is #1 on Google for the keyword "buburuboo."

Now that I've made this post, chances are I'm going to outrank it because I said "buburuboo" more in this post than I did in my other one.

Trouble is, nobody is searching for "buburuboo."

It's not like "buburuboo" is a brand name or some other kind of useful word.

You are probably never going to make a dime if you build a site at buburuboo.com and write articles optimised for the keyword "buburuboo."

But you will almost certainly be #1 on Google.

Which leads me to the real point of this post.

Is what you are asking for really what you want?

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mrdomains

16 years ago

I´m not going to provide a "formula" here and now but, based on the amount of keyword research tools you have, I will express my feeling that you are doing too much analysis and not enough testing.

You don´t really need any tools at all since basic research can be done "manually". Some tools are great time-savers though.

I for one would put everything in your list aside apart from Market Samurai. That is all you need. Enter any topic, generate some keywords, analyze, select a few, and check out what page 1 looks like, and go from there.

What you should look for? It all depends on what kind of niche and who your target is. Some niches require low competition, credit-card-waving visitors to be profitable, others do fine with information seeking geek profiles. Many times, the only way to know for sure is to take the plunge and test. If one turns out to be the other, change your monetization of the site to suit.

Who do you want to attract, and how you are going to make money from that visitor. That is what matters.

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smartsites

16 years ago

Yes I know I'm over analyzing, I wouldn't say I'm trying to find a silver bullet but more of a blueprint or method. I have no problem with manual work as I've already spent a gazillion hours on this stuff. I'm basically looking to build small niche sites that I can rank for easily and then I will slowly build into more advanced keywords with articles etc.

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smartsites

16 years ago

Thanks Dan, That's a great strategy. Easy and to the point!

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MikeLiving

16 years ago

I just posted something in the SEO section where I said "I am in the business of ranking on page one."

Meaning that when I do my keyword research I look at only those on page one as my competition. I'm not trying to rank on page 30, I'm trying to rank on page one.

Because of that I don't pay attention to allintitle:, allinurl; or even "in quotes" search results. I'm not trying to rank for allintitle:keyword or even the keyword in "quotes." Nope I'm trying to rank for the keyword as its searched, which usually means typing the bad boy into Google and seeing who's on page one.

At that point I care about: Domain Age, Amount of Backlinks to the Page ranking, PageRank, and finally authority.

When it comes to exact match domains, I've ranked quite well with an extra word or two. The exact match is what you should shoot for (especially if going long-tail sub-niche) but sometimes we can't always have what we want.

If you get one thing out of this post, its that your competition is one page one. That's it. Don't even look at page two or three or 40. Thats not where you want to be...

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Barry Unruh

16 years ago

Originally Posted by smartsites

Please help me sift through and come up with a formula I can follow that works.

Have time to watch videos?

I'm not recommending you add another tool to your arsenal, but I would highly recommend you go visit the training Dojo at Market Samurai and watch their videos.

Noble Samurai - Dojo

If you want to follow along using their software then download the free trial, but you should be able to accomplish the same research strategies using your existing tools.

They give you their tested criteria, recommendations on how to use the keywords, etc.

Barry

P.S. Marvin recommended Ed Dale's Challenge, which is great training, but their keyword research modules are all done by the Market Samurai team. If you are only wanting keyword training stick with the Market Samurai Dojo. You can even subscribe using iTunes and put them all on your own PC.

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cfarmer

16 years ago

Try to only give yourself five minutes to pick a keyword for the niche you are in. Go see if the domain name is avialable if not, repeat. Dont overhtink just quickly go through each keyword you want to optimize. Set a timer up and when the bell rings force yourself to check a if a keyword is available.
You are definitely over thinking.

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sarahberra

16 years ago

There are a few different methods. I think people over complicate keyword research. It does seem confusing at first because google inflates the numbers in their research tool. Pick a niche and narrow it town. Dig deeper to find the golden keywords.

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Genghis John 16 years ago

I have found the Dojo at the Noble Samurai website quite helpful for analytical study.
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JonWebContent

16 years ago

Originally Posted by sarahberra

There are a few different methods. I think people over complicate keyword research. It does seem confusing at first because google inflates the numbers in their research tool. Pick a niche and narrow it town. Dig deeper to find the golden keywords.

The Google keyword tool is not inflated anymore. They made major improvements to it a few months ago. You should be able to trust the numbers now. Prior to September (?), they did inflate them.

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Jake Gray

16 years ago

I second Market Samurai. This has been a helpful tool for me.

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cevin

16 years ago

Originally Posted by londonwarrior

I use Market Samurai and it works great. You just ignore the keywords that you know are too hard to compete against and pick something in your league. You then build a site, get some backlinks and see how it does. The only real way to find out is to build a simple site and see if you get traffic/ranking. No keyword research tool get tell you if something will definitely work. It's just a rough guide to get you started on the right track. Some sites work and some don't. Just keep testing.

I agree on everything. Just get stuck with this tips. Test to see how you rankings respond. I also use M-Samurai, it's quiet good.

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gburke1 16 years ago

I use a combination of Wordtracker, Google Keyword Tool, and Market Samurai.

Have I ranked on page one yet? No... but I have just started using this method and I at least finally got my page ranked for a useful keyword.

I start with Wordtracker to find keywords with high search volume and low IAAT (In Anchor and Title) which generally means less competitive. Keep in mind Wordtracker results from Google are 'Broad Match'

I then go to the Google Keyword tool and search for the keyword with 'Exact Match' and/or 'Phrase Match' to see how many people are actually typing this exact keyword in to Google. Many times you find out phrases that have thousands of searches on 'Broad Match' are almost worthless when you search for them on Google Keyword tool.

Market Samurai is great to get a snapshot of the top 10. As everyone else says, they are your real competition, and this gives you an idea of what you are up against. Running the keyword through Market Samurai is the final step I take before link building.
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Ninawa

16 years ago

Well, I am also extremely confused when it comes to keyword researches. If I want to create a microniche website, then keyword research matters mostly. I see a keyword that gets 2000 searches which is good but when I create a blog or website for it I don't rank as good I guess it's because of competitors but how am I supposed to know how many real competitors I have for this keyword.

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JohnMcCabe

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Ninawa

Well, I am also extremely confused when it comes to keyword researches. If I want to create a microniche website, then keyword research matters mostly. I see a keyword that gets 2000 searches which is good but when I create a blog or website for it I don't rank as good I guess it's because of competitors but how am I supposed to know how many real competitors I have for this keyword.

For any given moment of time, a broad match search of your keyword will give the following primary competitors on the first SERP page...

> Around 10 organic results
> 8-10 Adwords ads
> 6-8 related searches links
> 2 search boxes (top and bottom)
> 1 back button

So landing on that first page is only the first step. Once you get there, you have to attract the click from a real human being, getting him/her to choose you over the thirtyish other choices...

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JonWebContent

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Ninawa

Well, I am also extremely confused when it comes to keyword researches. If I want to create a microniche website, then keyword research matters mostly. I see a keyword that gets 2000 searches which is good but when I create a blog or website for it I don't rank as good I guess it's because of competitors but how am I supposed to know how many real competitors I have for this keyword.

Have you used the Google keyword tool? If not, I recommend this. You can filter it by competition. Find profitable keywords that have low competition. WordTracker is great for finding long tail phrases that you never would have thought of.

Also, remember to include the keywords/phrases in the title tags of EACH page and don't overstuff the content with your keywords. Do these things and you will have a great shot at ranking high for useful key-phrases.

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JonWebContent

16 years ago

"If you know SEO, KW research is much simpler because you can rank for KWs with high competition."

This is correct........in time. But a good SEO will find profitable low competition keywords that you can realistically rank well for in a shorter period of time while you work your way up the rankings for the higher competition (and probably more profitable) keyword.

Even a good SEO cannot get an immediate high ranking for a highly competitive keyword, but they will work on getting that onto the 1st page of Google over time.

I don't think keyword research is easier for those of us that know SEO well. Really all you need to do is learn the Google Keyword Tool (or WordTracker, which is SLIGHTLY better) and have a somewhat creative mind. Seriously, that's really all there is to it. Everyone can read a simple chart that shows the amount of monthly searches and competition level. Decent amount of searches + low competition + "buying search phrase" = JACKPOT!!

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FrankBowman 16 years ago

I understand what you are saying Jon, I've just never understood why people try and rank for KWs with less than 1K in searches.

What is someone realistically going to do with a KW that get 300 searches per month?

Again, while there are other ways of making money online besides building KW researched and SEOed sites, if you do choose that route, don't you think it would be better to set a minimum search volume of 5K and just do what you need to do to get into the first two positions?

One other thing for those looking to build sites and rely on organic traffic, domain age is a big factor in my opinion, so trying to rank high with a new domain may be easier with longertail less searched for terms.

I buy a lot of aged domains, simply because of this fact.

What are you opinions on this Jon?
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smartsites

16 years ago

I've just signed up for the wordtracker trial and it's so confusing. I don't understand how their numbers work. They say that their listings show an average of how many keywords were typed in a year. I compare this to google keywords tool and it's way off. The same with Market Samurai, it's off too. I don't know whose number to trust