Scaling the micro niche sites...

by TryBPO
277 replies
  • SEO
  • |
Hello there warriors!

My business partner and I own a small outsourcing company in the Philippines. We are going through some tough times lately and decided to get into the micro niche AdSense play by taking advantage of the low cost labor here.

We started December 2nd and have been able to build out about 10 sites a week bringing us to almost 70 sites in total. All have multiple pages of original content (about 5 on average) and while they won't win any design awards, the WordPress theme maximizes our CTR while providing a good experience for the visitor. We intend to keep this rate up until we can build a decent living off of solely AdSense revenue.

We are averaging more than $5 a day the past seven days and had our best day yesterday of $11.82 (not bad for a Sunday!). While I am encouraged by our initial success, I wanted to see if anyone out there has tried this massive scaling approach. What are the pitfalls? How do I avoid the Google slap (we are adhering very closely to the AdSense TOS, so I am talking more on the search side)? When can we expect to start making $50 a day? $100 a day? Any advice for managing such a large number of sites with varying content (our Google doc is getting pretty complicated)?

And the biggest question -- can micro niche sites really make you enough to sustain a business or do you have to build out the winners to become an authority?

My hope here is to start a meaningful discussion on micro niche scaling and how to be successful at it quickly.

Thanks!
#micro #niche #scaling #sites
  • Profile picture of the author TryBPO
    Amazing to me that no one seems interested in this. Is anyone out there producing a large amount of niche sites profitably?
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    • Profile picture of the author Jeremy Banks
      Originally Posted by TryBPO View Post

      Amazing to me that no one seems interested in this. Is anyone out there producing a large amount of niche sites profitably?
      All I do is niche sites and I am making a good full time income from them, I would want to make A LOT more then $10 a day from 70 niche sites!

      For that you would be better to build an authority domain and build 70 websites worth of content on on, that way you aren't polluting the internet with so many domains.
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      • Profile picture of the author TryBPO
        Originally Posted by Jeremy Banks View Post

        All I do is niche sites and I am making a good full time income from them, I would want to make A LOT more then $10 a day from 70 niche sites!

        For that you would be better to build an authority domain and build 70 websites worth of content on on, that way you aren't polluting the internet with so many domains.
        Jeremy, sorry we're not living up to your expectations... :rolleyes:

        Alternatively, we could say to other people, "We would rather diversify our sites rather than being STUCK at the mercy of a few websites and their ability to earn." It's just different ways to go about doing the same thing, no? Also, you have to remember that when you're building sites so quickly, they haven't all had a chance to reach earnings "capacity" yet. Sure, if we'd built them over two years, that wouldn't be a very good $$ amount per day, but many of those sites were not yet earning anything.

        The reason we've focused on more specific sites is simple...you get a much quicker return and answer as to whether the site will be worth it or not. We'd rather not spend months and months building out a site to find it's a dud.

        So you think it would be better to build authority sites and have less sites full of more pollution? Is that your strategy?

        It will be interesting when you finally get enough people on your list to "reveal" all your secrets. Alternatively, they can go to our site and find it out now, for free!
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  • Profile picture of the author jborjaperez
    I am very interested and have been wanting to try a massive scaling approach.. But.haven't gathered up the courage to go all out. Plus, people keep posting about google banning them for no reason.. How have you produced so many sites so fast? are you doing keyword research?

    -j
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    • Profile picture of the author TryBPO
      Thank you for responding.

      We run an outsourcing company and have a team of agents in the Philippines. Most of these agents are assigned to other projects/companies, but we always try to remains overstaffed to cover sick-days, vacations, etc.

      Most of our agents are SEO savvy and so we've decided to launch a content campaign, monetized via AdSense. we did a few test runs to make sure we had a process down that works for our troops and then plunged forward, doing some A/B testing on the sites.

      Our agents are able to cover the content writing, WP setup, link-building, social commenting, etc. We provide them the researched keywords and let them go at it.

      Currently, we're tracking everything via Google Docs but it's a little messy/confusing with all of the information we're trying to track. We're thinking we'll switch to a more traditional CRM (Salesforce? vTiger? Sugar?) in the future.

      We've read about many WF posters setting this up as a side-business for themselves or doing it part-time, but we haven't heard much from people in our situation. We thought it would be an interesting approach, anyway.

      What's keeping you from really going for it now? Worry about not being ranked, issues with Google, etc?
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      • Profile picture of the author WealthWithin
        Originally Posted by TryBPO View Post

        Thank you for responding.

        We run an outsourcing company and have a team of agents in the Philippines. Most of these agents are assigned to other projects/companies, but we always try to remains overstaffed to cover sick-days, vacations, etc.

        Most of our agents are SEO savvy and so we've decided to launch a content campaign, monetized via AdSense. we did a few test runs to make sure we had a process down that works for our troops and then plunged forward, doing some A/B testing on the sites.

        Our agents are able to cover the content writing, WP setup, link-building, social commenting, etc. We provide them the researched keywords and let them go at it.

        Currently, we're tracking everything via Google Docs but it's a little messy/confusing with all of the information we're trying to track. We're thinking we'll switch to a more traditional CRM (Salesforce? vTiger? Sugar?) in the future.

        We've read about many WF posters setting this up as a side-business for themselves or doing it part-time, but we haven't heard much from people in our situation. We thought it would be an interesting approach, anyway.

        What's keeping you from really going for it now? Worry about not being ranked, issues with Google, etc?
        I have about 100 sites (most are done during last few months) and the results are mostly similar to yours.

        I have built a custom tracking system to keep track of all the domains, keywords and rank checking. Also it's hooked up with my analytics account so that I can check which keywords bring in the most of traffic. It also has an export feature, so that I can directly export all data to my VA.

        Build your own tracking/maintenance script. Salesforce/vTiger/Sugar is an overkill for this job.

        I'm planning to launch another 100 sites. But I've paused it for a moment till I can automate most of the publishing work.

        The model works, but it's not 'get rick quick'.

        How do you choose your domains? Do you go for exact match or do you go for hyphens or stop words?
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      • Profile picture of the author derekad
        Originally Posted by TryBPO View Post

        Thank you for responding.

        We run an outsourcing company and have a team of agents in the Philippines. Most of these agents are assigned to other projects/companies, but we always try to remains overstaffed to cover sick-days, vacations, etc.

        Most of our agents are SEO savvy and so we've decided to launch a content campaign, monetized via AdSense. we did a few test runs to make sure we had a process down that works for our troops and then plunged forward, doing some A/B testing on the sites.

        Our agents are able to cover the content writing, WP setup, link-building, social commenting, etc. We provide them the researched keywords and let them go at it.
        How much do you pay agents per service? And where did you found them?
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        • Profile picture of the author TryBPO
          Originally Posted by derekad View Post

          How much do you pay agents per service? And where did you found them?
          These are employees of our Philippines corporation. Their pay varies, based on their position in the company (Agent, Project Lead, or Team Lead) and is slightly above average for our location.

          We hardly have to look. We get resumes sent to us from friends of current employees, walk-in job applicants, and from the random job advertisements posted around town or online.

          My business partner and I personally interview every new hire, but we have a process that weeds people out before they get to us, so we end up hiring most of the people we meet with.
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  • Profile picture of the author DireStraits
    I would be assessing your strategy somewhat, because 70 sites, each an average of 5 pages in size, is still quite a large amount of content for the relatively small income you're currently making.

    You should be focusing on doing better keyword research, and - perhaps, by the sound of it - more backlinking, to increase your search-engine rankings (if you're not currently in the top 3 for most of your keywords), traffic and thus the number of clicks you're getting.
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    • Profile picture of the author TryBPO
      DireStraights - Yes, you're right on both accounts.

      Point 1 - We began by trying to target the "low hanging fruit" in that we attacked niches that had fairly low search volume, but we thought would be easy to rank for. The idea being that let's see how successful our process is at ranking first and move up from there. What we're finding now is that with a partial % of "I don't know why the hell that site isn't working" problems you have to target slightly higher niche/traffic keywords than we started with and we've made the adjustment moving forward.

      Point 2 - We're towards the bottom of the first page or on the second for most of our keywords, so we're in the game but not yet ranked. Only about 20 or so of the sites are even 30 days old, so I'm not too worried about it (and several of those sites are 1-3) but we've put together a pretty aggressive linkbuilding campaign with multiple approaches. We benefit from the low cost of labor in that we can over-do some work that we might not be able to afford to do in the US.
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    • Profile picture of the author StoneWilson
      Originally Posted by DireStraits View Post

      I would be assessing your strategy somewhat, because 70 sites, each an average of 5 pages in size, is still quite a large amount of content for the relatively small income you're currently making.

      You should be focusing on doing better keyword research, and - perhaps, by the sound of it - more backlinking, to increase your search-engine rankings (if you're not currently in the top 3 for most of your keywords), traffic and thus the number of clicks you're getting.
      Right, for micro-niche websites keyword reaserch is the most important work to do. Spend too much time on contents building won't help much, spend more time on generating traffic and finding highestly converted layout.
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  • Profile picture of the author InitialEffort
    The biggest problem I find in scaling a niche website is volume. So say you have a website on cordless drills because that was the only good drills keyword. Then you need to move to screwdrivers etc, but then you run into not having an EMD. I've built one authority website and I can say that 90% of the pages are a waste as only a few actually generate income after fairly intense backlinking. It is all about the keyword and not about simply having content for the sake of having more content.
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    • Profile picture of the author TryBPO
      I definitely know where you're coming from as far as running into "niche" problems about scaling a specific site, but what we're talking about is scaling the "niche site process" and not any particular niche site.

      What we're attempting to do is standardize the process and use our low-cost outsourced employees directly to rebuild and automate, does that make sense?
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    • Profile picture of the author WilliamBerg
      It works but you will become more exposed to google changes which is why I abbandon this method a long time ago. A few years back, MSN search and mini adsense sites where pure gold.
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      • Profile picture of the author TryBPO
        Originally Posted by WilliamBerg View Post

        It works but you will become more exposed to google changes which is why I abbandon this method a long time ago. A few years back, MSN search and mini adsense sites where pure gold.
        We are a bit worried about that. What types of changes are you talking about specifically? What do you do now to stabilize and protect you AdSense income?
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        • Profile picture of the author Cataclysm1987
          Google dances a lot more nowadays. I can't even imagine owning 70 sites and only making 5-10 bucks per day.

          I would suggest doing some aggressive list building and creating a few real authority sites with tons of content and building up web 2.0 sites, articles and videos to drive a crap load of traffic to squeeze pages and blogs instead of building a giant portfolio of sites that may or may not rank, depending on how Google is feeling.

          Google is a finicky little lady, so you need a multi tiered approach to please her. Leverage the page rank of other sites for traffic in addition to building your own sites as you have little trust built up if you rely only on mini sites and no Web 2.0s or authority sites.
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          • Profile picture of the author TryBPO
            Originally Posted by Cataclysm1987 View Post

            Google dances a lot more nowadays. I can't even imagine owning 70 sites and only making 5-10 bucks per day.
            We have a team here in the Philippines we directly manage and employ. So that makes it a lot easier. If I were sitting at home doing it all myself, I would be lucky to get 5 sites up in the same time period. As it is, our team is not occupied with other projects so this is perfect for them to be working on.

            Originally Posted by Cataclysm1987 View Post

            I would suggest doing some aggressive list building and creating a few real authority sites with tons of content and building up web 2.0 sites, articles and videos to drive a crap load of traffic to squeeze pages and blogs instead of building a giant portfolio of sites that may or may not rank, depending on how Google is feeling.

            Google is a finicky little lady, so you need a multi tiered approach to please her. Leverage the page rank of other sites for traffic in addition to building your own sites as you have little trust built up if you rely only on mini sites and no Web 2.0s or authority sites.
            We are trying. We have a pretty extensive link building and social media approach. As you know leveraging overseas workers for such tasks is very cost efficient.

            I am a bit worried that are tactics are very "2008", but hopefully some of them still work. They must because some of our sites (about 40%) are ranking on the first page or high second page. As time goes on we will simply have more sites ranking which we can expand on and dump the one that don't rank. It's a lot to manage and maintain, but that's but of the fun right?

            Do you have any specific suggestions for micro niche sites?
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  • Profile picture of the author Clyde
    You're doing it wrong, I'm getting 1k sites up every 2-3 months and I only have 1 VA.

    Automation.
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    • Profile picture of the author TryBPO
      Originally Posted by clyde View Post

      You're doing it wrong, I'm getting 1k sites up every 2-3 months and I only have 1 VA.

      Automation.
      Wow, that's quite a few. We looked at some totally automated sites, autoblogging, etc. and thought, at least for us, that was too far outside the scope of what we thought we wanted to do, but I know there are people doing it. (successfully?)
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      • Profile picture of the author Cataclysm1987
        Google pretty openly hates autoblogs.

        If you can find a way around it, be their guest.
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        • Profile picture of the author TryBPO
          Originally Posted by Cataclysm1987 View Post

          Google pretty openly hates autoblogs.

          If you can find a way around it, be their guest.
          I imagine you are responding to "clyde", but just for clarification, we are not using autoblogs. All content is original.

          1000 sites every 3 months with only one VA requires more than automation. It requires cutting corners and therefore putting your revenue at risk. Getting all you sites sandboxed would be a real nightmare.
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          • Profile picture of the author brchap
            Don't listen to the naysayers. It can be done, and with enough time and consistency, you will do it too.

            Build your 100 or 200 sites and then focus on getting each and every site into one the top 3 positions for your targeted keyword.

            A common mistake is trying to rank too quickly.

            I know lots of people will encourage you to blast your way to the top with 10k profile links (or whatever the latest SEO trick is), but I have had amazing success with slower, more consistent link building... no more than 10 backlinks per day.

            I mean, if you think about it, that's 300 links per month, and over 1000 links in about 4 months. Not many people have the dedication to do this for that long, and it all looks very natural to Google. If you do it slowly, your site will dance less... and (usually) just keep rising.

            After that, you work on your CTR... but, that's another story.
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            • Profile picture of the author TryBPO
              Thanks, Bradley!

              That's pretty much what we're doing. Looking back at some of our early sites were starting to get ranked pretty well and we're expecting the same from some of our later sites in time. The plan is to work on the sites for the first 3 months and then give them some time, let them sit, and see where we're at in 6 months.

              @erictan678 - You might be right, but you have to put much more work in per site initially and you don't see results nearly as fast. If we had a higher failure rate with that approach, we wouldn't know for months and more efforts would be wasted. You're right though in that it can be more efficient, we just thought the smaller sites was a better initial approach to start.
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    • Profile picture of the author 4morereferrals
      Originally Posted by clyde View Post

      You're doing it wrong, I'm getting 1k sites up every 2-3 months and I only have 1 VA.

      Automation.

      WPMU? Please spill the beans willl ya?

      PM or otherwise ... how?
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      • Profile picture of the author TryBPO
        @4more referrals - From some of the MFA sites we've seen and most of the complaints about having their network de-indexed, AdSense account banned, etc. we think most of the problem was that the publishers were not following guidelines and were, in most cases, WAY outside of what is acceptable.

        Think auto-generated, scraped content, heavy back-linking from sketchy sources, using social media sites to promote click fraud (Please click on my sites so I get PAID!!! types of posts) and the like.

        We're pretty new to this side of the business, but everything we've seen/heard from Google so far is PROMOTING us to get better visibility, more clicks, etc. Of course, that's coming from the AdSense team and not the search team so you have to take it with a grain of salt.

        We've done nothing sketchy with our sites and do have plans to expand a few of them, based on their success. Our content is original and (mostly) written by our guys after researching the topic, we usually extend links to true authority sites to help the user get even more information, have required policy statements on the site, etc.
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    • Profile picture of the author dotgirish
      Originally Posted by Clyde View Post

      You're doing it wrong, I'm getting 1k sites up every 2-3 months and I only have 1 VA.

      Automation.
      WOW This is huge , are you setting up auto blogs? If its blogs with genuine content, I assume you are shelling $$$ too. Interested to know more , do you have any reports or so on how you do this.
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  • Profile picture of the author erictan678
    wouldn't it be better and maybe more cost-effective if you build a larger site and add pages that target each keyword niche?
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  • Profile picture of the author Doug Pretorius
    Hey Justin, I've been at this for 3 weeks less than you, building out a single site, and doing all the work myself. I'm averaging about the same income as you with about 33% of the amount of content.

    I tried the micro sites thing and never got anywhere with it. With the exception of 1 site (where I ended up putting in about 20 pages of content) I never got onto page 1 with any of them so didn't get traffic and didn't make money.

    I think the single site (or a small collection of 'authority' sites) is the best way to go these days. My site is totally unaffected by the 'google dance'. It goes up and down in the serps for individual keywords on a daily basis but overall traffic is steadily growing week by week.
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    • Profile picture of the author TryBPO
      33cents - It's encouraging to hear you're having similar results with the one site approach. I wonder what you did wrong with the minisites...we don't seem to be having the same problem at this point.

      We hear what you're saying about the larger, authority site. Many of our minisites are setup in such a way that we can easily expand on them and some of them are general enough to where it wouldn't be awkward to expand. The plan is to take a couple of the winners and expand them into true authority sites with lots of pages of targeted content. With a large enough base of sites and growing, a failure there wouldn't cost us much and allows us to explore other options in expanded sites.

      We're at just under $10/day now. It's a bit early to estimate, but I'm guessing we'll be at $50 a day by May/June. If that's true, our plan would be to heavily expand at that point, doubling or tripling efforts and site creation. In addition, we would be expanding some of our earlier sites and taking a stab at creating larger authority sites from the beginning and we'll be happy to share our results there as well.
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      • Profile picture of the author M Thompson
        Justin,

        When i started in IM I build hundreds of sites, at one point I had over 1 million pages in google. I made a very good income from this alone.

        However since then I've got rid of most of my sites and have a much more flexible business model.

        I build 4 or 5 page sites and always use original content. I make sure i always get backlinks to every page. then I sit back and let google do the research for me. Some keywords will be winnners others won't .

        Grab the winners and expand the pages around those keywords. Use analytics or a rank tracking plugin to find the new keywords that are being used to find your site and build those pages as well.


        One bit of secret sauce (which I've just this very minute decided to call my racehorse method) to add is after 3 months sell off the worst performing sites, use the money to create new sites and promote the better performing ones.

        After a few years you'll end up with a stable of thourogobred sites .
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        • Profile picture of the author TryBPO
          Originally Posted by M Thompson View Post

          One bit of secret sauce (which I've just this very minute decided to call my racehorse method) to add is after 3 months sell off the worst performing sites, use the money to create new sites and promote the better performing ones.

          After a few years you'll end up with a stable of thourogobred sites .
          Interesting, we have thought of the same thing to offset the costs of setup and continued site build outs. Do you sell the sites individually or in a package?

          Looking forward to having a stable full of thoroughbred sites! Hope it won't take "years" though. If it does take that long, it at least better be making some sort of return above and beyond monthly setup costs. Otherwise it seems you are just throwing good money after bad.

          Originally Posted by WealthWithin View Post

          The model works, but it's not 'get rick quick'.

          How do you choose your domains? Do you go for exact match or do you go for hyphens or stop words?
          Yeah, we figured it would take at least 6 months to cover expenses and a year to make back investment. After that though it should be earning nicely. By the end of two years it should be enough to replace an average income in the USA. Which, in the Philippines, allows you to live quite nicely.

          We always go for EMD when looking at domains. We are testing using hyphens now, but the jury is still out. Our first few batches did not use hyphens and we had good success. It's a pain though when you come across a low competition, high paying keyword, only to find all the EMD are taken.

          More importantly, how are you choosing your keywords? I'm not talking research after you have an idea -- we all know (or should!) how to use Market Samurai or the like. I'm talking about coming up with the idea in the first place.
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          • Profile picture of the author M Thompson
            Originally Posted by TryBPO View Post

            Interesting, we have thought of the same thing to offset the costs of setup and continued site build outs. Do you sell the sites individually or in a package?
            sell them individually you should make more
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        • Profile picture of the author 4morereferrals
          Originally Posted by M Thompson View Post

          Justin,

          I build 4 or 5 page sites and always use original content. I make sure i always get backlinks to every page. then I sit back and let google do the research for me. Some keywords will be winnners others won't .
          .
          Building a 5 page site - even with original content ... how do prevent soooo many sites form appearing yo google as thin MFA sites and keep the account from shlappage and closure?

          I mean you have to put adsense on to find the performers or race horses i suspect - so do you do that before or after the site gets more content?

          How many domains/sites/blogs we talking here?

          Hope you can assist with one of my biggest mental hurdles.

          I have about 50 sites in the process right now - but only two Im willing to put adsense on ... 7-15 unique articles on each [ well these are some of the first to hit page one too but ... ]

          Any guidance to get me over this concern of account ban and amounts of content and practices to keep the investments safe would be appreciated.
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          • Profile picture of the author M Thompson
            Originally Posted by 4morereferrals View Post

            Building a 5 page site - even with original content ... how do prevent soooo many sites form appearing yo google as thin MFA sites and keep the account from shlappage and closure?

            I mean you have to put adsense on to find the performers or race horses i suspect - so do you do that before or after the site gets more content?

            How many domains/sites/blogs we talking here?

            Hope you can assist with one of my biggest mental hurdles.

            I have about 50 sites in the process right now - but only two Im willing to put adsense on ... 7-15 unique articles on each [ well these are some of the first to hit page one too but ... ]

            Any guidance to get me over this concern of account ban and amounts of content and practices to keep the investments safe would be appreciated.

            I put adsense on from day 1 and never have a problem...

            I suppose there must be 70 to 80 sites at the moment.

            it's probably not an idea to believe everything you read, rely on your own testing. I've 1 page site rank #1 and earn upto $20 a day. that didn't get expanded for over a year.

            It might just be that google know the sites are good quality and i always use original content and they get expanded over time.

            Personally I think the key is original content, not just rehashed versions of other peoples content but something that new and original.
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  • Profile picture of the author priyankeshu
    im doing similar work but alone and managed to create around 5 sites last year. My suggestion is that just keep building content on the pages and backlinks through article directories and text link ads or something.

    Traffic will improve. It is easier to make $1 from one site a day and make 10 sites rather than getting a site to make $10 a day. You are at it. But it is not an easy task at all, best of luck..

    The worse part about this technique is that google might not like this method. So my suggestion would be to add at least some relevant content into the sites as it will make your business more stable. It will be more relevant for advertisers and google will be happy from you too ..
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  • Profile picture of the author TryBPO
    Thank you, Kevin!

    @M Thompson - We will for those that are at least making a little revenue. We were thinking for those that are making (well) under $1 a day, we might bundle them together. It would be hard to sell one making $3/month for much I imagine, but bundled with others at $50/month it might not make for a bad offer?
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  • Profile picture of the author mbmehmet
    I don't see how scaling such an empire of mini adsense sites provides any real value. Lets be honest here and not kid anyone. You can tell me till your blue in the face that you are providing a service to consumers and I will come right back at you and tell you B*LL S**T.

    Why not concentrate on building a few sites that you could focus on. With your outsourcing I am sure you can really grow them out, less dilution, allowing you to really make those few sites a labour of love.

    I scaled the mini adsense model to over 120 sites and that feeling of not accomplishing or providing any value really made it not a passion, but a chore. I certainly don't miss those days where one day I am an expert of garden lawnmowers and the next a source for boat part reviews.

    I ditched all my sites apart from a select 5, worked on them daily. Each have over 250 pages of content and I am doing quite well ;-)
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    • Profile picture of the author TryBPO
      Originally Posted by mbmehmet View Post

      I don't see how scaling such an empire of mini adsense sites provides any real value. Lets be honest here and not kid anyone. You can tell me till your blue in the face that you are providing a service to consumers and I will come right back at you and tell you B*LL S**T.

      Why not concentrate on building a few sites that you could focus on. With your outsourcing I am sure you can really grow them out, less dilution, allowing you to really make those few sites a labour of love.

      I scaled the mini adsense model to over 120 sites and that feeling of not accomplishing or providing any value really made it not a passion, but a chore. I certainly don't miss those days where one day I am an expert of garden lawnmowers and the next a source for boat part reviews.

      I ditched all my sites apart from a select 5, worked on them daily. Each have over 250 pages of content and I am doing quite well ;-)
      Agreed, but even you admit you tried the micro niche site approach first. It's a great way to hone your skills while making a reliable profit. I think the single site approach simply takes too long to see real results. Let's be honest, there are people on this board still struggling to make $1 a day after a year of writing content and building out their site, never mind the $20 we just passed yesterday after only doing this for 2 months.

      A viable, profitable, model with a return of your investment in a reasonable time frame is more important to me than having something I'm really passionate about. Because at $100 a day you can be passionate about anything.
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      • Profile picture of the author M Thompson
        Originally Posted by TryBPO View Post

        Agreed, but even you admit you tried the micro niche site approach first. It's a great way to hone your skills while making a reliable profit. I think the single site approach simply takes too long to see real results. Let's be honest, there are people on this board still struggling to make $1 a day after a year of writing content and building out their site, never mind the $20 we just passed yesterday after only doing this for 2 months.

        A viable, profitable, model with a return of your investment in a reasonable time frame is more important to me than having something I'm really passionate about. Because at $100 a day you can be passionate about anything.

        Agreed, but in addition having a selection of small niches is a great way to find the sites that you can expand out and create into authority sites.

        People need to ask themselves which would they prefer to do.

        1. build a large authority site from the start put all their resources into a handful of these and hope they succeed

        or

        2. create a selection of small sites then after you have stats choose the ones you want to build up.


        If the data we get from google was correct and accurate we could all do option 1. Unfortunately the data is very poor, so you need to collect your and analyse your own data.

        How many times have you had a keyword at #1 that google said gets 3000 searches a month and you get 30 visitors ... or how many times do you get 40 visitors a day at #3 for a term that's supposed to have 800 searches a day.
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    • Profile picture of the author TryBPO
      Originally Posted by mbmehmet View Post

      I don't see how scaling such an empire of mini adsense sites provides any real value. Lets be honest here and not kid anyone. You can tell me till your blue in the face that you are providing a service to consumers and I will come right back at you and tell you B*LL S**T.

      Why not concentrate on building a few sites that you could focus on. With your outsourcing I am sure you can really grow them out, less dilution, allowing you to really make those few sites a labour of love.

      I scaled the mini adsense model to over 120 sites and that feeling of not accomplishing or providing any value really made it not a passion, but a chore. I certainly don't miss those days where one day I am an expert of garden lawnmowers and the next a source for boat part reviews.

      I ditched all my sites apart from a select 5, worked on them daily. Each have over 250 pages of content and I am doing quite well ;-)
      @mbmehmet - What you're saying resonates loud and clear, but we're not doing this as a hobby or as a "labor of love". We're good at building machines and so I won't be putting my blood/sweat/tears into it anyway...I don't particularly care what we're writing about, honestly.

      That being said, in the end, I'd like to have a bit more than a huge network of mini-sites, but I do get some pleasure out of employing more Filipinos here, working with them on a daily/weekly basis, teaching them new internet/seo tricks, etc. If that were what I built I might be ok with that.

      How are mini sites much different than large AdSense sites like Mahalo, without the branding? Of course, I'd much rather build that type of comprehensive site (Think cruisesfrom.com, eHow, etc.) ultimately, but you have to start somewhere, right? I'm not willing to invest my own money (and/or money from investors) building out a site that I'm not sure I can deliver on from the beginning. Jason C can start Mahalo because he's used a proven method before and is simply doing it again. I'm not that sure of my skills in the area yet...

      At this point, it's our traditional outsourcing business that is funding the project. Our (modest) income from that business has allowed us to try this out for virtually no cost. If the model continues to work I could scale this 3x, 5x, 10x to what we're doing today. (A few choke-points in the engine aside...we're working on getting ourselves out of the way there)
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  • Profile picture of the author darcie
    it is pretty awesome to work with small niche and the best way is try to rank it for spot number one or two as this is the life of your online business. small niche are easily to do with quick work but big site need time and most ppl give off when got no result
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  • Profile picture of the author 4morereferrals
    So .... where did this end up to date?

    How many sites?

    What kind of serps were achieved?

    Daily adsense revenues?
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  • Profile picture of the author TryBPO
    Wow, it's been a while!

    We continued with the project, creating around 50 sites/month Dec - Mar. We've found success here and increased to 2x in April. 90-100 sites. We're a bit behind on site creation with the scale-up, but have around 260 sites up now in total, with another 35 or so domains purchased and getting ready.

    80%+ (I don't know the exact number) of our Dec/Jan sites are sitting on the first page for associated keywords and they bring in a full 65%+ of our revenue, currently.

    We're just under $60/day for the month of April. The project is now self-funding, through our selling some of the AdSense site networks on Flippa. (We're under the username TryBPO) and we should be able to continue to self-fund as we scale. Right now, we plan on staying at 100 sites/month through the next couple of months, with a chance of being at 300-400/month by December. (hopefully)

    It's definitely profitable for us, but it's a real grind. My business partner and I have had to be more involved at different points in the process with so many sites, but we're still working our way out further. Instead of scaling personnel here, we decided to turn various team members into Project Leads, where they outsource much of the work to others and merely supervise the process.

    We sold our second auction for 5 sites on Flippa today for $1,500 and my business partner is in San Diego, CA at a coffee shop in a meeting with a Google AdSense rep as i write this...going pretty well!
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    • Profile picture of the author DireStraits
      Originally Posted by TryBPO View Post

      and my business partner is in San Diego, CA at a coffee shop in a meeting with a Google AdSense rep as i write this...going pretty well!
      Well, that's a revelation - truly.

      I remember way back in one of John (XFactor) Robinson's AdSense threads, in which he mentioned being in contact with an AdSense rep around the time that he was focusing on creating micro-niche MFA sites. I was pretty astounded that Google were prepared to go to such lengths to cultivate the efforts of such publishers when they seem to have adopted a "No Mass MFA" stance, and were simultaneously de-indexing a great many of them and terminating AdSense accounts to boot.

      Now, I know Google aren't strictly against MFA sites as such (gosh, they'd be in trouble if they were) - they just don't seem to want people pumping out exact-match-domain, "xfactor"-themed, thin-content MFA sites with blatantly manipulated backlink-profiles - but I know that even some very successful (income-wise) publishers had the hammer dropped on their little (and sometimes not-so-little) networks by "Judge G".

      Myself, I kept the number of my sites relatively low, invested some significant time into each, and tried to build each out as much as possible whilst keep them high-quality. The result is that each began to earn a few dollars (or pounds, in my case) daily, and I've never had any run-ins to date.

      But given the rate at which you're pumping these things out, and the methodologies you're using to do that and get them ranking, I'm honestly quite surprised that Google - who I assume must know exactly what the score is, given your being so open about it - are perfectly fine with that. :confused:

      I hope this observation won't in any way be construed negatively - the point I'm making is that "Google are a strange company whose actions are sometimes a little uncomfortably inconsistent and whose motives are somewhat hard to fathom". :p
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      • Profile picture of the author mightydough
        "Is all that we see or seem but a dream within a dream?" ~ Edgar Allan Poe
        That's profound! You got me thinking. Real deep.
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        You are what You think.

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  • Profile picture of the author sgrey34
    Wow, an old thread but I would like to see updated results as well.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rough Outline
    Your revenue seems awfully low from 70 sites, what are the total traffic figures?
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    • Profile picture of the author TryBPO
      Originally Posted by Rough Outline View Post

      Your revenue seems awfully low from 70 sites, what are the total traffic figures?
      Well that's a punch in the gut...the sad part is we have a lot more than 70 sites!

      Traffic is consistently going up, but we've pulled in 12K unique visitors in the last 7 days.

      I've looked around and our RPU (Revenue Per Unique Visitor) is pretty low... under half what others have or claim to have.
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      • Profile picture of the author Rough Outline
        Originally Posted by TryBPO View Post

        Well that's a punch in the gut...the sad part is we have a lot more than 70 sites!

        Traffic is consistently going up, but we've pulled in 12K unique visitors in the last 7 days.

        I've looked around and our RPU (Revenue Per Unique Visitor) is pretty low... under half what others have or claim to have.
        Well I've got two main sites for Adsense income and one site has had 6k views and £11 so far this month, my other site has 230 views and £4 for this month so far.

        As much as churning out tonnes of sites is good, I'd focus on 1 or 2 sites at a time, get them up to speed and move onto the next 1 or 2 sites.
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  • Profile picture of the author 4morereferrals
    Thanks TryBPO!!!

    Great update.

    Will be interested to hear how the meeting with your G Adsense Rep ends up like.

    Please keep us updated.
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  • Profile picture of the author TryBPO
    Interesting...

    So I just got off the phone with my business partner who just finished lunch after meeting with the Google AdSense rep and here are a few highlights from that meeting.

    - We were actually invited to this meeting...I thought it was sent to everyone in the area and those that replied got in...nice!
    - They want people that are creating sites...not MFA sites. Our sites, although boring, are not considered MFA.
    - You MUST have 100% unique content. (We do) Do not duplicate content from elsewhere, use auto-blogs, etc.
    - They really do manual reviews...but manual reviewers do NOT have the authority to shut down AdSense accounts...ours would be fine as-is.
    - Contrary to popular belief, they do not shut down AdSense accounts on a whim, unless something REALLY bad is going on with the account. They will give any reasonable publishers fair warning on what needs to be corrected.
    - We messed up (and are a little stupid) by simply using the code provided from our WP templates and not matching them to our AdSense account ads. Therefore, Google doesn't know which blocks/ads are performing better and have not been able to optimize for our sites. Very stupid, rookie mistake on our part and (wink wink, nudge nudge) she told us we might do much better by fixing that.
    - Good luck getting an "actual" account rep...reserved for top .00001% of publishers. (Think New York Times level)
    - 250x300 and skypscraper blocks are generally used by the premium advertisers.
    - (In our particular case) We're better off going with 2 blocks and a link unit, rather than 3 blocks and a link unit. (250x300, skyscraper, and linkunit)
    - Although we have personal AdSense accounts and a business AdSense account...don't bother mixing/matching there at all. Although it's acceptable to have those accounts, you might throw up some flags there...better to be avoided... (We asked about this as it would allow us to track more URL channels)
    - Some major publishers have tested wrapping text vs. not wrapping and not wrapping generally has won out.
    - Our tactic (And xFactor and others) of putting the ad block right below the title is aggressive, but acceptable. Putting something like "Click Here", "Hot Deals Today" etc. would be going too far.
    - AdWords targets heavily by whether you're logged into your Google account or not. If logged in, it will try to show ads that are good for YOU and not as heavily based on content. (Shoe ads on a funeral site, for example) If not logged in, the weight goes to the content.
    - Very helpful, knowledgeable, and friendly

    What a cool experience! I only got to talk to my partner for a short period of time, but we have some things that we think might greatly improve our income and are anxious to test them out.

    Thoughts?
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    • Profile picture of the author DireStraits
      Originally Posted by TryBPO View Post

      Interesting...

      So I just got off the phone with my business partner who just finished lunch after meeting with the Google AdSense rep and here are a few highlights from that meeting.

      - We were actually invited to this meeting...I thought it was sent to everyone in the area and those that replied got in...nice!
      - They want people that are creating sites...not MFA sites. Our sites, although boring, are not considered MFA.
      - You MUST have 100% unique content. (We do) Do not duplicate content from elsewhere, use auto-blogs, etc.
      - They really do manual reviews...but manual reviewers do NOT have the authority to shut down AdSense accounts...ours would be fine as-is.
      - Contrary to popular belief, they do not shut down AdSense accounts on a whim, unless something REALLY bad is going on with the account. They will give any reasonable publishers fair warning on what needs to be corrected.
      - We messed up (and are a little stupid) by simply using the code provided from our WP templates and not matching them to our AdSense account ads. Therefore, Google doesn't know which blocks/ads are performing better and have not been able to optimize for our sites. Very stupid, rookie mistake on our part and (wink wink, nudge nudge) she told us we might do much better by fixing that.
      - Good luck getting an "actual" account rep...reserved for top .00001% of publishers. (Think New York Times level)
      - 250x300 and skypscraper blocks are generally used by the premium advertisers.
      - (In our particular case) We're better off going with 2 blocks and a link unit, rather than 3 blocks and a link unit. (250x300, skyscraper, and linkunit)
      - Although we have personal AdSense accounts and a business AdSense account...don't bother mixing/matching there at all. Although it's acceptable to have those accounts, you might throw up some flags there...better to be avoided... (We asked about this as it would allow us to track more URL channels)
      - Some major publishers have tested wrapping text vs. not wrapping and not wrapping generally has won out.
      - Our tactic (And xFactor and others) of putting the ad block right below the title is aggressive, but acceptable. Putting something like "Click Here", "Hot Deals Today" etc. would be going too far.
      - AdWords targets heavily by whether you're logged into your Google account or not. If logged in, it will try to show ads that are good for YOU and not as heavily based on content. (Shoe ads on a funeral site, for example) If not logged in, the weight goes to the content.
      - Very helpful, knowledgeable, and friendly

      What a cool experience! I only got to talk to my partner for a short period of time, but we have some things that we think might greatly improve our income and are anxious to test them out.

      Thoughts?
      Interesting stuff. Thanks for posting.

      Some of this could probably be considered "common knowledge" or "logical assumption", except a lot of it is never publicly acknowledged/refuted or even touched upon by Google, on their various blogs or elsewhere. So it's nice to hear it "from the horse's (gorilla's??) mouth", so-to-speak.

      Thanks for posting that, anyhow.
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  • Profile picture of the author JoshuaG
    Thank you for the update.
    Your post about the meeting with the rep. was super helpful and very reassuring.
    Keep up the good work, keep us updated, and best of luck with your business!
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  • Profile picture of the author MarathonMan
    Thanks for posting the info, very interesting - some of it I'd never heard before.

    I have about a dozen sites and am currently pulling in between $200 and $250 a day - but I wasn't making that much in the first few months after I launched my sites. If you have quality content it takes a few months for your content to "mature" and rise to the top - use that time to keep building good sites, and soon you'll have a steady stream of sites you built months ago reaching critical mass and starting to earn real money. I'd say you could easily be making hundreds a day with a network like that.
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  • Profile picture of the author kevstorrs
    very interesting... i have considered a similar scaling of micro niche sites... have you used any other monetizing methods to supplement adsense?

    one question - what are your yearly domain-name costs for 100+ sites? this is the one area that i was wary about the scaling, as each site would have a fixed cost associated with it?
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    • Profile picture of the author TryBPO
      Originally Posted by kevstorrs View Post

      very interesting... i have considered a similar scaling of micro niche sites... have you used any other monetizing methods to supplement adsense?

      one question - what are your yearly domain-name costs for 100+ sites? this is the one area that i was wary about the scaling, as each site would have a fixed cost associated with it?
      No other methods except selling some of the sites on Flippa. We are documenting the process on our new site AdSenseFlippers.com -- check it out!

      We are considering some affiliate plays. Our niches are just so far and wide that this is tough to do sometimes. I'll let you know how it goes though.

      Our domain costs are factored into our site setup -- currently running at about $35-$40 per site. For renewals we drop the real losers (sites not ranked or have not paid for themselves). With coupon codes and bulk discounts you can get the fees down to a reasonable level. We still spend $400 a month on renewals though.
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    • Profile picture of the author M Thompson
      Originally Posted by kevstorrs View Post

      very interesting... i have considered a similar scaling of micro niche sites... have you used any other monetizing methods to supplement adsense?

      one question - what are your yearly domain-name costs for 100+ sites? this is the one area that i was wary about the scaling, as each site would have a fixed cost associated with it?
      Each site will cost about $9 less if you get a wholesaler account, however that shouldn't be a consideration, If a site is making $1 a month it's still in profit,

      A bigger problem is maintenance, 100 sites are a problem to maintain, and promote.

      If i was starting out again I'd get 10 sites, then every 3 months sell off the worst performing ones and invest the money in new sites and the most profitable , after a few years you'd have 10 profitable sites earning you a full time living.
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      • Profile picture of the author TryBPO
        Originally Posted by M Thompson View Post

        Each site will cost about $9 less if you get a wholesaler account, however that shouldn't be a consideration, If a site is making $1 a month it's still in profit,

        A bigger problem is maintenance, 100 sites are a problem to maintain, and promote.

        If i was starting out again I'd get 10 sites, then every 3 months sell off the worst performing ones and invest the money in new sites and the most profitable , after a few years you'd have 10 profitable sites earning you a full time living.
        GoDaddy has a domain club discount which will automatically give you discounts on renewals, I think it's around $7 or so, but you'd have to verify the price.

        I tend to agree with the maintenance issue, but most of our sites are pretty non-competitive and are truly set and forget. We will probably take some of our better domains and really flesh out some authority sites that make us a higher average $$ per month, but in the meantime our process seems to be working for us and we'll stick with the crazy site creation, heh.

        We view it this way - We're filling/exploiting a hole in the content. Eventually, those holes will get filled by better, even more specific content. (Either from us adding more or from others filling those gaps) In the meantime, there's a lack of content in these specific niches and so we're adding value. It's not amazingly high-quality value, but it is filling a role. (hole)
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        • Profile picture of the author 4morereferrals
          Originally Posted by TryBPO View Post

          GoDaddy has a domain club discount which will automatically give you discounts on renewals, I think it's around $7 or so, but you'd have to verify the price.

          I tend to agree with the maintenance issue, but most of our sites are pretty non-competitive and are truly set and forget. We will probably take some of our better domains and really flesh out some authority sites that make us a higher average $$ per month, but in the meantime our process seems to be working for us and we'll stick with the crazy site creation, heh.

          We view it this way - We're filling/exploiting a hole in the content. Eventually, those holes will get filled by better, even more specific content. (Either from us adding more or from others filling those gaps) In the meantime, there's a lack of content in these specific niches and so we're adding value. It's not amazingly high-quality value, but it is filling a role. (hole)

          Justin,

          Why do you not have any concerns about the fact these [ all 261 ive seen ] are pure MFA sites?

          Soooo many people have claimed to have lost their serps/indexation and adsense accounts doing Adsense this way.

          1 home page - identical themes - 3 ads above the fold - and 3-4 articles of content ... and as you readily admit - its not "stellar" articles... but not bad either.

          How is this not the anti-thesis of what google indicates they want from publishers? What makes you feel the investment is safe?

          the link profiles seem to be of the same nature as everyone elses [ profiles and articles ]

          Man - this is confusing to me. Most everyone who toiled for this model - got slapped into oblivion - yet Google wants to buy you lunch?

          Kudos to you guys frankly .... but ... the signals from google are boggling.
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          • Profile picture of the author TryBPO
            Originally Posted by 4morereferrals View Post

            Justin,

            Why do you not have any concerns about the fact these [ all 261 ive seen ] are pure MFA sites?

            Soooo many people have claimed to have lost their serps/indexation and adsense accounts doing Adsense this way.

            1 home page - identical themes - 3 ads above the fold - and 3-4 articles of content ... and as you readily admit - its not "stellar" articles... but not bad either.

            How is this not the anti-thesis of what google indicates they want from publishers? What makes you feel the investment is safe?

            the link profiles seem to be of the same nature as everyone elses [ profiles and articles ]

            Man - this is confusing to me. Most everyone who toiled for this model - got slapped into oblivion - yet Google wants to buy you lunch?

            Kudos to you guys frankly .... but ... the signals from google are boggling.
            Sure we have concerns. The truth is we have suffered some sites going through the "Google Dance", but to this day we have had only one site not go into the Google cache, which we think may be related to the content being not original. None have been permanently removed from the cache or buried in anyway. However, we have an army of sites covering many different topics. When one falls out another steps in it's place. I like to call the phalanx approach to internet marketing.

            The only explanation I have for this is that the Google Search teams and AdSense teams are completely separate. One has a commitment to users and the search experience, while the other has a commitment to Google's advertisers and the publishers that make it work. The truth is micro niche sites provide a solution for Google where there is a lack of content for certain terms and subjects that advertisers want to advertise in. That last part is key and is the reason the AdSense team met with us to help with on page optimization. They want us to succeed and keep producing content.

            I would also say the "horror stories" of AdSense accounts being banned or entire niche networks being dumped from the SERPs are mostly people doing something completely against the rules. People getting traffic from unethical sources like porn networks. Or clicking on their own ads in mass. Or simply not following the AdSense TOS (i.e. no contact form or privacy notice).

            The one thing the AdSense rep said to me was that Google will never ban your AdSense account without a notice asking you to fix something first. This comes straight from the horse's mouth so I am inclined to believe it, despite what I have read on forums. Most of those people probably ignored the warnings from Google or couldn't figure out how to run niche sites effectively while following the rules.
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            • Profile picture of the author Dellco
              Originally Posted by TryBPO View Post

              Sure we have concerns. The truth is we have suffered some sites going through the "Google Dance", but to this day we have had only one site not go into the Google cache, which we think may be related to the content being not original. None have been permanently removed from the cache or buried in anyway. However, we have an army of sites covering many different topics. When one falls out another steps in it's place. I like to call the phalanx approach to internet marketing.

              The only explanation I have for this is that the Google Search teams and AdSense teams are completely separate. One has a commitment to users and the search experience, while the other has a commitment to Google's advertisers and the publishers that make it work. The truth is micro niche sites provide a solution for Google where there is a lack of content for certain terms and subjects that advertisers want to advertise in. That last part is key and is the reason the AdSense team met with us to help with on page optimization. They want us to succeed and keep producing content.

              I would also say the "horror stories" of AdSense accounts being banned or entire niche networks being dumped from the SERPs are mostly people doing something completely against the rules. People getting traffic from unethical sources like porn networks. Or clicking on their own ads in mass. Or simply not following the AdSense TOS (i.e. no contact form or privacy notice).

              The one thing the AdSense rep said to me was that Google will never ban your AdSense account without a notice asking you to fix something first. This comes straight from the horse's mouth so I am inclined to believe it, despite what I have read on forums. Most of those people probably ignored the warnings from Google or couldn't figure out how to run niche sites effectively while following the rules.
              Yes, you are right, the Google Search Quality dept and the Adsense dept are separate, and that is because their aims are (at least on paper), obviously different.

              I'd not believe everything the Adsense guys tell you, because they can get literally, overruled by the Search Quality dept.

              The horror stories are far from limited to people doing blatantly wrong stuff.

              I've seen many cases for those who came forward, their network took a big hit, and they lost like most of their income when their sites got penalized. And you can easily see for example, in this Panda update, many previously high earning Premium Adsense publishers taking big hits, like Tim Carter, who was once the poster child for Adsense. He was featured by Adsense itself as a success story.

              As for Adsense giving a warning before taking action, that is just disinformation from Adsense, plain and simple. The vast majority of the time, no warning is given. The bot is the one doing the talking.
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              • Profile picture of the author 4morereferrals
                Originally Posted by Dellco View Post

                And you can easily see for example, in this Panda update, many previously high earning Premium Adsense publishers taking big hits, like Tim Carter, who was once the poster child for Adsense. He was featured by Adsense itself as a success story.

                As for Adsense giving a warning before taking action, that is just disinformation from Adsense, plain and simple. The vast majority of the time, no warning is given. The bot is the one doing the talking.
                Where is there info on his post Panda traffic?

                edit: let me google that for meeeeself :-)

                http://www.google.com.cy/support/for...76717183&hl=en
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                • Profile picture of the author Dellco
                  Originally Posted by 4morereferrals View Post

                  Where is there info on his post Panda traffic?

                  edit: let me google that for meeeeself :-)

                  earnings way down since 12 april 2011 - AdSense Help
                  Yep that's the one

                  Also others who said they had 100-hundreds of little niche MFAs saying their income fell down (the few who came forward). The search quality guys are the top dogs within Google, not the Adsense guys.
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  • Profile picture of the author TryBPO
    Recurring domain costs aren't much of a concern for us, really. If the sites, on average, make us $10/month each long-term, the $8 or so per year for a domain renewal is not that big of a deal.

    For those few (Most likely under 5%?) that made us less than the cost of the domain over the previous year we can just let the domain expire and re-purpose the content or something. At this point it looks like that will be quite rare.

    It's aggressive, but I'd like to have close to 1,400-1,500 sites up by the end of the year. Cost would be around $11,000 per year on renewals, I'm estimating? Still...7% (or less) of gross there, right?
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  • Profile picture of the author kevstorrs
    great! been reading through the site, interesting to follow your progress!

    i guess adsense is great in this sense because you don't require customised monetization for each site. do you also factor your hosting into the set-up charges?

    i actually came across your sites on flippa by accident too. nicely presented. i might be interested in taking a few off your hands to add to my adsense portfolio, and to get an idea for how the micro-niche sites work, so let me know when you are next selling some!
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  • Profile picture of the author Josh MacDonald
    Originally Posted by TryBPO View Post

    When can we expect to start making $50 a day? $100 a day?
    This is one of the most wild questions I've ever seen asked. You've given us no numbers on CPC or number of global searches or even your CTR. If your not making over $2/day/site you should read the link in my sig. Your CTR must be over 5%.
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    • Profile picture of the author gurvinderpal
      How you guys register domins. I guess in most of the cases EMD is registered and parked.

      .org and .net also seem to get grabbed.

      If you register domains with hashes or use some alternate keywords
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      • Profile picture of the author pr0n1x
        Hello.
        How do you build backlinks to your sites? What software do I use? At what cost you a single site?
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        • Profile picture of the author DireStraits
          Originally Posted by pr0n1x View Post

          Hello.
          How do you build backlinks to your sites? What software do I use? At what cost you a single site?
          With a name like pr0n1x, I'd have imagined you'd be well-versed in the art of using "link-bait" to attract backlinks?
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        • Profile picture of the author TryBPO
          Originally Posted by pr0n1x View Post

          Hello.
          How do you build backlinks to your sites? What software do I use? At what cost you a single site?
          We use a combination of manual backlinking and SENukeX. Total cost per site (with backlinking, content and domain registration) is about $35-$40.
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      • Profile picture of the author TryBPO
        Originally Posted by gurvinderpal View Post

        How you guys register domins. I guess in most of the cases EMD is registered and parked.

        .org and .net also seem to get grabbed.

        If you register domains with hashes or use some alternate keywords
        Only .com, .net and .org. No dashes. If the EMD is not available we move on and choose another niche. There are a lot out there!
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        • Profile picture of the author gurvinderpal
          Do you think that .info have chances of ranking in top 5.
          I registered around 20 .info and have achieved page 1 rankings for 3 domains which I have done link building and earning 1-2$ average from those 3.

          If its long term to build a portfolio of .info since I am going to put alot of effort into them ot go with .com , .org or .net only
          Originally Posted by TryBPO View Post

          Only .com, .net and .org. No dashes. If the EMD is not available we move on and choose another niche. There are a lot out there!
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          • Profile picture of the author TryBPO
            Originally Posted by gurvinderpal View Post

            Do you think that .info have chances of ranking in top 5.
            I registered around 20 .info and have achieved page 1 rankings for 3 domains which I have done link building and earning 1-2$ average from those 3.

            If its long term to build a portfolio of .info since I am going to put alot of effort into them ot go with .com , .org or .net only
            We've tested this a bit and found that .info's were simply harder to rank than com/net/org and we don't use them anymore.

            Now EVERY time we say that, we get someone telling us something like, "but I have X number of .info's ranked on the first page!" We're not saying you CAN'T get .info's ranked...of course you can...it's just more difficult for us than a com/net/org. Since we're not stuck searching in any particular niche, why hassle with it? We just move on and pick a different keyword, no big deal.

            There's also the fact that, in general, .info's sell for less on the open market. I don't know this for a fact, but my guess is that we get more than the $6.00 saved on domain purchase back when we sell the sites as com/net/org's.
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            • Profile picture of the author gurvinderpal
              Thanks very much for taking time to reply to my questions.

              Highly Appreciated.

              Best of Luck....
              Originally Posted by TryBPO View Post

              We've tested this a bit and found that .info's were simply harder to rank than com/net/org and we don't use them anymore.

              Now EVERY time we say that, we get someone telling us something like, "but I have X number of .info's ranked on the first page!" We're not saying you CAN'T get .info's ranked...of course you can...it's just more difficult for us than a com/net/org. Since we're not stuck searching in any particular niche, why hassle with it? We just move on and pick a different keyword, no big deal.

              There's also the fact that, in general, .info's sell for less on the open market. I don't know this for a fact, but my guess is that we get more than the $6.00 saved on domain purchase back when we sell the sites as com/net/org's.
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    • Profile picture of the author TryBPO
      Originally Posted by macdonjo View Post

      This is one of the most wild questions I've ever seen asked. You've given us no numbers on CPC or number of global searches or even your CTR. If your not making over $2/day/site you should read the link in my sig. Your CTR must be over 5%.
      Really? I thought it was a rather simple question. Some sites make more than $2 a day, some don't . Average CTR is (EDITED - Against ToS to give out CTR).

      I will look at the link and let you know what I think.
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  • Profile picture of the author theplugindude
    Make it try to rank for different keywords and add more valuable content.

    In that way - Your sites will become authority sites and you will earn more money.

    Add more content too and DONT make it an autoblog.

    I am developing 100 sites too.

    Lets see what happens..it will be a 200K turnover if I flip them all(Lol)

    I am pretty serious about my project and you should too!

    Thanks
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  • Profile picture of the author athanne
    for us beginners we will learn a lot from this experiences .looking forward
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  • Profile picture of the author bastiansen
    Banned
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    • Profile picture of the author pr0n1x
      You mentioned that you have about 300 sites. At flippa.com you sell packages of sites that have the same design.
      You all sites have the same design?
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      • Profile picture of the author TryBPO
        Originally Posted by pr0n1x View Post

        You mentioned that you have about 300 sites. At flippa.com you sell packages of sites that have the same design.
        You all sites have the same design?
        Yes, that's correct...it's from a free WP theme. We've tried out (and sold, i think) some sites with different templates, but found the original the most effective.
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  • Profile picture of the author dagaul101
    Sure micro niche sites can work, onbly have to look at some of the big names in the classifieds who survive strictly on Adsense revenue, just continue what you are doing, rinse and repeat and before you know it the $50 per day milestone will be passed
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  • Profile picture of the author TryBPO
    We've passed the $50/day mark already, averaging $53/day in April. We should be at right around $100/day on average in June, but it will depend on how many of the sites we sell off over the next 4-6 weeks, heh.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ernie Lo
    You are going about this the wrong way IMO. You would make a heck of a lot more money and have less costs just by adding more pages to your existing sites instead of making 1000 5 page websites.

    Google would prefer it as well
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    • Profile picture of the author jerytohn
      Originally Posted by Ernie Lonardo View Post

      You are going about this the wrong way IMO. You would make a heck of a lot more money and have less costs just by adding more pages to your existing sites instead of making 1000 5 page websites.

      Google would prefer it as well
      So, it would be better if you added more pages and back-linking each of them? Is this what you would have done?
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      • Profile picture of the author DireStraits
        Originally Posted by jerytohn View Post

        So, it would be better if you added more pages and back-linking each of them? Is this what you would have done?
        The thing is, by concentrating your off-site SEO on a smaller number of sites, as opposed to diluting your efforts by doing it across huge numbers of them, each site will amass more power and authority over time. New pages that you add will then require less page-specific backlinking to rank, as there will be so much more link-juice already flowing through your sites' veins.

        It does, of course, take a lot longer to get into that position, which is why many believe small sites with exact-match domains are the better option. But neither strategy is necessarily superior. One just takes a little more of a long-term view, whereas the other can bring you quicker returns in the short-term ... but can sometimes necessitate more ongoing work over the long-term.

        This is the reason I stopped building out new AdSense sites, instead pouring my efforts into expanding those I already had.
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        • Profile picture of the author TryBPO
          Originally Posted by DireStraits View Post

          It does, of course, take a lot longer to get into that position, which is why many believe small sites with exact-match domains are the better option. But neither strategy is necessarily superior. One just takes a little more of a long-term view, whereas the other can bring you quicker returns in the short-term ... but can sometimes necessitate more ongoing work over the long-term.

          This is the reason I stopped building out new AdSense sites, instead pouring my efforts into expanding those I already had.
          We absolutely agree with this. My preference would be to have less sites with more content. Eventually, I think we'll go that route...it seems the most likely option for us. The fact is, though, that our smaller sites are earning and we're not convinced of our skills in building out a site with more content and having it earn more. In fact, our limited experience in this has been that the additional pages added do not come CLOSE to earning enough to make this valuable.

          For now, I think we'll continue to build on our success. We seem to be quite capable at building small earners and they tend to sell very well for us when it's time to sell them off. Worst case, we're giving proven revenue sites to those who can then build them out. (Either adding more content successfully, turning them into affiliate sites, etc.) That then becomes their story...but we're good at pumping out sites that are quick earners...shouldn't we focus on that? That seems to be a winner for us...why head into an unknown? Couldn't we just be the guys that give starter sites that then hand them over to those that turn them into success stories?

          I would add, to everyone who's mentioning Panda...isn't that an argument against the larger sites? We didn't see a hit there at all. Pointing to something that didn't negatively effect us as a reason to stop doing what we're doing doesn't make for a very good argument why we shouldn't do it, right?
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    • Profile picture of the author TryBPO
      Originally Posted by Ernie Lonardo View Post

      You are going about this the wrong way IMO. You would make a heck of a lot more money and have less costs just by adding more pages to your existing sites instead of making 1000 5 page websites.

      Google would prefer it as well
      Perhaps, but every indication says Google is fine with it. Things could change, you never now.

      The management of so many sites is tough, but because we are in the Philippines and have direct employees, our costs are very low. We wouldn't be able to do it if we had to go through a middle man.
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  • Profile picture of the author omegaeapen
    this is a nice go! Could you tell us how much you earn from those 300 sites monthly?
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    • Profile picture of the author TryBPO
      We give a complete breakdown of revenue on our site. Check our sig and look for "Income Reports"

      Only around 200 of the 300 are currently earning...because the other 100 are still so new.
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  • Profile picture of the author KennethYu
    I'm an Adsense publisher myself. I have done a ton of Xfactor sites. However, I find my best income coming from adding more articles to each micro niche site. Even 10-20 high quality articles seem to be magic formula in quadrupling the income of each individual site, or even more. I had clunkers that became viable earners just by the addition of articles.

    The key is HIGH QUALITY well-researched articles, not just keyword-optimized ones. Google seems to examine quality signals coming from different articles, that's why Panda slapped all the big article directories that just pump out ****e content with zero quality but keyword-optimized.

    The easiest way? Go to free magazine sites, download relevant magazines in your niche and get your writers to rewrite them. You can target keywords but I find by just doing this alone, I'm getting high quality traffic that's translating to adsense clicks.

    Scale it to hundreds of high quality articles on a single site and that's when you see the sheer power. I mean... Look at eHow. They're going to hit revenues of $200 million in Adsense income a year purely from this model.

    Something to think about?
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    • Profile picture of the author TryBPO
      Originally Posted by KennethYu View Post

      I'm an Adsense publisher myself. I have done a ton of Xfactor sites. However, I find my best income coming from adding more articles to each micro niche site. Even 10-20 high quality articles seem to be magic formula in quadrupling the income of each individual site, or even more. I had clunkers that became viable earners just by the addition of articles.

      The key is HIGH QUALITY well-researched articles, not just keyword-optimized ones. Google seems to examine quality signals coming from different articles, that's why Panda slapped all the big article directories that just pump out ****e content with zero quality but keyword-optimized.

      The easiest way? Go to free magazine sites, download relevant magazines in your niche and get your writers to rewrite them. You can target keywords but I find by just doing this alone, I'm getting high quality traffic that's translating to adsense clicks.

      Scale it to hundreds of high quality articles on a single site and that's when you see the sheer power. I mean... Look at eHow. They're going to hit revenues of $200 million in Adsense income a year purely from this model.

      Something to think about?
      Agreed and we are looking at expanding some of our sites. However, we have a repeatable process that is very scalable and profitable. That is tough to resist as a business owner.
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  • Profile picture of the author WealthWithin
    Can you explain a bit more on the personal account vs business adsense account?


    I'm earning a decent amount on my personal account, but I'm thinking of getting a new business account. Mainly because I'd like to grow it as a business, and also as a safety net if something goes wrong with the personal account.

    Is there anything questionable about this?
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    • Profile picture of the author TryBPO
      Originally Posted by WealthWithin View Post

      Can you explain a bit more on the personal account vs business adsense account?


      I'm earning a decent amount on my personal account, but I'm thinking of getting a new business account. Mainly because I'd like to grow it as a business, and also as a safety net if something goes wrong with the personal account.

      Is there anything questionable about this?
      Not sure what you mean by "business account". Do you mean payments going to a corporation instead of an individual? As I see it that is the only difference.
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      • Profile picture of the author WealthWithin
        Originally Posted by TryBPO View Post

        Not sure what you mean by "business account". Do you mean payments going to a corporation instead of an individual? As I see it that is the only difference.

        I was referring to the following in your post.


        "- Although we have personal AdSense accounts and a business AdSense account...don't bother mixing/matching there at all. Although it's acceptable to have those accounts, you might throw up some flags there...better to be avoided... (We asked about this as it would allow us to track more URL channels)"
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        • Profile picture of the author TryBPO
          Originally Posted by WealthWithin View Post

          I was referring to the following in your post.


          "- Although we have personal AdSense accounts and a business AdSense account...don't bother mixing/matching there at all. Although it's acceptable to have those accounts, you might throw up some flags there...better to be avoided... (We asked about this as it would allow us to track more URL channels)"
          Ah, ok...

          We both have personal AdSense accounts and our corporation has an AdSense account as well. We were considering starting to add sites to our personal accounts so that we'd be able to track the URL channels. One AdSense account only allows you to track up to 200 URL channels (500 for certain approved accounts) and so we'd hate to be putting up more sites that we're not able to track their success.

          After discussing with the Google rep, she said that it wouldn't be a good idea to mix our business sites into our personal AdSense accounts. Not that we're not allowed to have each of those accounts...we are...but it might throw up some red flags that are problematic. (or automatically found? not sure here) Even though we'd be doing it for legitimate reasons she said it would look "fishy" and that we shouldn't do it, so we've agreed to not do it...make sense?
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          • Profile picture of the author freddylan
            I am currently following this thread with interest and will share my experience with my 100 micro niche xfactor template:
            Just one month ago, a strange thing happen to me, i was building since 3 month 100 mini web page all about traveling place with very low competition keywords. All my web page ranked in the first a second page of the serps (because of very low competition i think).

            For the last 50 i had the "good idea" to just put one page of very short content and in the site map a link to all the other (older) waiting to get indexing fast and adding more content Little by little. i was just linking in one way : the newer to the older (site nº 50 link to all site nº 1 to nº 49, site n º 51 link to all site nº 1 to nº 50, site n º 52 link to all site nº 1 to nº 51….etc) . My surprise was to see my older web page in just 2 days after adding the last bunch of 50 mini site (in just over 2 days) get a loss of 100 position all in the same day?

            All the mini site are in public domains, hosting with hostmonster with adsense, google analytic and using a very simple template in html.

            THE STRANGEST THING IS THAT A FEW OF MY MINI SITE WHICH WERE NOT LINKED OR EVEN COMPLETELY DIFFERENT WERE AFFECTING AS WELL (THE OLDEST ONE)!
            Now i have 50 mini sites with one month age, with almost no content, no back links in the 2nd page of Google and my oldest one with more content and back link in position 80 to 100?
            Before this Google slaps I was doing quite well with my first 20 micro niches all in 1st page with increasing incomes and UV.
            Justin are you using the same template, same hosting, same adsense account, analytic, Whois public and not be penalized?
            After now 5 weeks my oldest 50 micro niche are still de-ranked !, do you think they will come Back in the 1rst page (very low competition) ?
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    • Profile picture of the author pr0n1x
      How do you choose a niche for web sites? I've seen you make websites for keywords with a very small number of queries per month, for example cubicledecoration.net only 720 requests for statistics Google, whether it is rational? I also checked out your keywords for advertisers through spufy.com and found that in your niche virtually no advertisers. Please Explain how you choose a niche, or you select them for Guess?

      Just visiting your site, I noticed that the relevance of the announcements is very small. How much you get in the middle for 1 click? From my experience I can say that 5000 page impressions = ~ $ 100, whether this is true for you?
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      • Profile picture of the author TryBPO
        Originally Posted by pr0n1x View Post

        How do you choose a niche for web sites? I've seen you make websites for keywords with a very small number of queries per month, for example cubicledecoration.net only 720 requests for statistics Google, whether it is rational? I also checked out your keywords for advertisers through spufy.com and found that in your niche virtually no advertisers. Please Explain how you choose a niche, or you select them for Guess?
        Our keyword research is pretty intensive and takes up the most time for my business partner and I...we're working on ways to push that work to our team right now so that we can begin to take ourselves out of the process, but haven't got that completely worked out yet. With the keyword mentioned above, you're right in that it doesn't receive many searcher per month. In fact, the site's only earned us an average of $5/month for the previous two months. Why did we pick that keyword? My guess was that we picked it because of the ease with which we thought we could get it ranked.

        Each week we try to get a range of sites. We target those that we think will be worth quite a bit to us, those we think we can easily rank, even if they're not worth as much, etc. By mixing it up like that, we tend to make less money per site each month...but it minimizes risk as well. If we needed a minimum of $30/month per site, we wouldn't target keywords like this, but because it works for us with lower dollar amounts it still makes sense.

        Originally Posted by pr0n1x View Post

        Just visiting your site, I noticed that the relevance of the announcements is very small. How much you get in the middle for 1 click? From my experience I can say that 5000 page impressions = ~ $ 100, whether this is true for you?
        I'm not sure what you mean here in the first sentence. The last sentence seems to be pretty close to true for us, though.
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  • Profile picture of the author Vincent1988
    Love this thread. It keeps me motivated
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  • Profile picture of the author Zeb
    Nice thread but there's something on my mind. You mentioned that an adsense rep took the time to see you, but you're based in the Philippines. Does google have adsense reps in the Philippines? hmmm....
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    • Profile picture of the author TryBPO
      Originally Posted by Zeb View Post

      Nice thread but there's something on my mind. You mentioned that an adsense rep took the time to see you, but you're based in the Philippines. Does google have adsense reps in the Philippines? hmmm....
      Great question! I'm not sure if Google has AdSense reps in the Philippines and, even if they do, they probably don't have any in Davao City, which is where we're based. (If they don't, they really should...I could see the Philippines growing quickly with the number of AdSense publishers here...)

      We were contacted through our AdSense account. Our corporation is based out of Los Angeles and they contacted us with two possible meeting locations...LA and San Diego. My business partner (Joe) just happened to be taking a 6 week trip to the US right before the meeting date and it worked out, which is what prompted him to respond. If this wasn't a planned trip I doubt we would have responded at all, so I'm glad it worked out.
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  • Profile picture of the author TryBPO
    Hey Freddy,

    I can't speak to your specific situation because I don't know all the details. I can say that we don't link our sites together, new to old. I don't know that this had anything to do with your situation, however, as it seems you're having problems with some of your non-linked sites as well?

    Yes, we're using the same things across the board...all public information. To be clear, we've had a few sites disappear. Some of them came back to an even better position than they were before. Others did not come back to the same spot or barely appear in the SERPs now. It's not a big concern for us...it's accounted for and doesn't seem to change the overall average for the sites. When one site goes away, another seems to step it up and earn more during the same period.

    I'm pretty sure that the more sites you have and the more diverse the topics, the more you'll find stability with average rankings, UV's, earnings, etc. Even still, our earnings have bounced quite a bit. We were at a $40.13 low on 5/13 and a $82.34 high on 5/16, but we've still seen a steady rise in income.

    In fact, here's the cool thing. We're currently tracking our average income in the first month for all sites, second month for all sites, etc. For example, the sites we earned in Dec made $X on average per site in Dec (Month 1) They made $Y on average per site in Jan (Month 2) and so on. With a few months history now, we've got some fairly consistent numbers and you can review them here and compare if you'd like:

    Income Report - April 2011 | AdSense Flippers

    Click on the image about halfway down the page to take a closer look.

    As it stands today:

    Month 1: $0.56 per site
    Month 2: $3.60 per site
    Month 3: $7.03 per site
    Month 4: $10.75 per site

    And so on.

    The data gets much less reliable as it goes further out, because we have less sites in there in comparison and used to get the averages. Additionally, I made the silly mistake when I set it up, basing it on the URL purchase date. In April/March the URL purchase date and the date the site was actually setup varies by up to a couple of weeks...I should have based it on site setup date...ugh. It means, most likely that the sites setup in April/May will show lower earnings and harm the averages (skew the numbers) a bit....I might have to go back and change that in the future.

    Anyway, we've tried to be as honest and as transparent with the process as we possibly can. We're really doing nothing that's terribly special or unique at this point. We didn't buy a magic bullet WSO or anything...just pulled information from the boards here and put it together. The IMPORTANT things that I think stand out for us are:

    1. We have a team of low-cost labor employed by us and working for us directly through our company.
    2. We've taken a heavy process-oriented approach from our experience at scaling processes in other industries via outsourcing and applied to this process

    We're pretty skilled at tracking as well and think our organization has added to our success.
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    • Profile picture of the author freddylan
      Hey Justin,

      Thanks for your honesty. It is funny I discover one of your post on the market samurai forum (If I well remember) just a few day s ago I made some research (spy) on your strategy and it is looking very similar to mine. After that I found this post on the WF

      I try to share my experiences because I get (I think) google slap using the same strategy ! The only difference is that I was linking my micro niche together just because they are really complementary (big mistake). I do not outsource and I am doing all the process myself writing and spinning (great learning experience and time consuming). The scary thing is as you understand, some of my non-linked sites (2 or 3) in totally different niche were affect in the same time and for that, I ve no answer ? I try to warm you that it can happen!

      I check my position with rank checker every day and it look like that google choose the first 50 mini site in the same order and drop all their position in one nite to 80 or 100 place ! Actually it was my olders sites because like you I keep them by date of buying the url !

      Now I d’ont know if google can find a footprint with rank cheker or other tools for checking your position ?

      I will just change a little bit my strategy with buying very similar domain, (on my wife name with different hosting, different adsense code, no analytic and private whois) and try to get rank in the same position that my best de-ranked site !
      I will change the template using wordpress instead of simple html and spin the articles on my oldest sites to use them on the new ones, just to see what happen!

      My first 10 mini sites were giving me around 8 $ a day with adsense only in their first month (just 4 or 5 of them) ranked in the 1st page of google (fr) and when I try to duplicate and scale it, I never get more and now I am on just 1 $ a day!

      Warriors what do you think ?
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      • Profile picture of the author TryBPO
        Originally Posted by freddylan View Post

        Hey Justin,

        Thanks for your honesty. It is funny I discover one of your post on the market samurai forum (If I well remember) just a few day s ago I made some research (spy) on your strategy and it is looking very similar to mine. After that I found this post on the WF

        I try to share my experiences because I get (I think) google slap using the same strategy ! The only difference is that I was linking my micro niche together just because they are really complementary (big mistake). I do not outsource and I am doing all the process myself writing and spinning (great learning experience and time consuming). The scary thing is as you understand, some of my non-linked sites (2 or 3) in totally different niche were affect in the same time and for that, I ve no answer ? I try to warm you that it can happen!

        I check my position with rank checker every day and it look like that google choose the first 50 mini site in the same order and drop all their position in one nite to 80 or 100 place ! Actually it was my olders sites because like you I keep them by date of buying the url !

        Now I d'ont know if google can find a footprint with rank cheker or other tools for checking your position ?

        I will just change a little bit my strategy with buying very similar domain, (on my wife name with different hosting, different adsense code, no analytic and private whois) and try to get rank in the same position that my best de-ranked site !
        I will change the template using wordpress instead of simple html and spin the articles on my oldest sites to use them on the new ones, just to see what happen!

        My first 10 mini sites were giving me around 8 $ a day with adsense only in their first month (just 4 or 5 of them) ranked in the 1st page of google (fr) and when I try to duplicate and scale it, I never get more and now I am on just 1 $ a day!

        Warriors what do you think ?
        Really unfortunate to hear, Freddy.

        As far as making footprints and that sort of thing, we haven't done that at all. We add all of our sites to Analytics, Webmaster tools, etc. We're not trying to do anything Google wouldn't like and so we don't feel that hiding is necessary.

        It is frightening, though, hearing your stories and those of others. It makes me think if so many people are complaining about AdSense banning, de-indexing, etc. they can't all be doing something wrong, can they? That being said, we won't use their issues as a reason not to act. Instead, we continue to go in full-force, knowing that there's a possibility these things could happen to us as well.

        We're happy to share our experiences, even though we know a high percentage of people probably won't be following it or taking any action. It makes me feel a bit better knowing that at least we didn't charge for the info we provide! :-)
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        • Profile picture of the author Dellco
          Originally Posted by TryBPO View Post

          Really unfortunate to hear, Freddy.

          As far as making footprints and that sort of thing, we haven't done that at all. We add all of our sites to Analytics, Webmaster tools, etc. We're not trying to do anything Google wouldn't like and so we don't feel that hiding is necessary.

          It is frightening, though, hearing your stories and those of others. It makes me think if so many people are complaining about AdSense banning, de-indexing, etc. they can't all be doing something wrong, can they? That being said, we won't use their issues as a reason not to act. Instead, we continue to go in full-force, knowing that there's a possibility these things could happen to us as well.

          We're happy to share our experiences, even though we know a high percentage of people probably won't be following it or taking any action. It makes me feel a bit better knowing that at least we didn't charge for the info we provide! :-)
          I suppose there will always be a risk when it comes to making lots of sites like these. I personally have a suspicion that Google generally does not like such sites but will welcome the income they get and so, "reserves" a percentage of small search results for these sort of sites. How much of a percentage is anyone's guess.

          After all, they are helping ICANN's (and they are a registrar themselves so I heard) bottom line too, from all the numerous EMD registrations everyday, LOL.

          I don't think a lot of people are not taking action, you will be surprised many are, but probably luck doesn't favor them and things like getting deranked, deindexed, or account banning happens to them.

          You could be one of the exceptions.
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          • Profile picture of the author Jeremy Banks
            This is the method I use to make around $200-$300 a day, got the proof on my blog if you don't believe me. I like to build a few micro niche sites, then related niche sites, then a related authority site and link up from all my related niche sites.
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        • Profile picture of the author freddylan
          Originally Posted by TryBPO View Post

          Really unfortunate to hear, Freddy.

          As far as making footprints and that sort of thing, we haven't done that at all. We add all of our sites to Analytics, Webmaster tools, etc. We're not trying to do anything Google wouldn't like and so we don't feel that hiding is necessary.

          It is frightening, though, hearing your stories and those of others. It makes me think if so many people are complaining about AdSense banning, de-indexing, etc. they can't all be doing something wrong, can they? That being said, we won't use their issues as a reason not to act. Instead, we continue to go in full-force, knowing that there's a possibility these things could happen to us as well.

          We're happy to share our experiences, even though we know a high percentage of people probably won't be following it or taking any action. It makes me feel a bit better knowing that at least we didn't charge for the info we provide! :-)
          thank Justin for sharing, i subscribe to your blog and will follow your progress, and i will share as well when something notable happen to me, i am taking action.
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    • Profile picture of the author freddylan
      Sorry just bumping, i forget to subscribe to this thread
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  • Profile picture of the author ro1h02n4
    Hey Justin,

    I have one question for you. Do you use dedicated IPs for every website or do you use shared ones?

    Thanks and good luck with your project!
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    • Profile picture of the author TryBPO
      Originally Posted by ro1h02n4 View Post

      Hey Justin,

      I have one question for you. Do you use dedicated IPs for every website or do you use shared ones?

      Thanks and good luck with your project!
      Shared hosting. We've noticed a little bit of down-time and slow load times, but our sites are not very intensive and we have a ton of sites there. Will pick up another hosting package here soon, though, i think.
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      • Profile picture of the author ro1h02n4
        Originally Posted by TryBPO View Post

        Shared hosting. We've noticed a little bit of down-time and slow load times, but our sites are not very intensive and we have a ton of sites there. Will pick up another hosting package here soon, though, i think.
        I guess I did't make myself very clear. My question was if you use unique IP for every site?

        I operate also almost 75 websites (5 niches) but last days all my sites loosed their SERP positions and I have to investigate and improve myself to get them back quickly. That's why I'm asking you about the IPs. After we've started share IPs between sites and not use unique ones for each one, everything started go wrong.

        Maybe there is just an coincidence and Panda master slapped me for some mistakes we've done.

        Thanks for your time!
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        • Profile picture of the author Jeremy Banks
          Originally Posted by ro1h02n4 View Post

          I guess I did't make myself very clear. My question was if you use unique IP for every site?

          I operate also almost 75 websites (5 niches) but last days all my sites loosed their SERP positions and I have to investigate and improve myself to get them back quickly. That's why I'm asking you about the IPs. After we've started share IPs between sites and not use unique ones for each one, everything started go wrong.

          Maybe there is just an coincidence and Panda master slapped me for some mistakes we've done.

          Thanks for your time!
          I have 3 different hosting accounts so that splits the I.P's up. I only have one adsense account though and I use it on two of my hosting accounts so google could make the connection if they needed to. I just try to make even my micro sites so they provide value so if google looked into my sites they wont nuke my account.
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        • Profile picture of the author freddylan
          Originally Posted by ro1h02n4 View Post

          I guess I did't make myself very clear. My question was if you use unique IP for every site?

          I operate also almost 75 websites (5 niches) but last days all my sites loosed their SERP positions and I have to investigate and improve myself to get them back quickly. That's why I'm asking you about the IPs. After we've started share IPs between sites and not use unique ones for each one, everything started go wrong.

          Maybe there is just an coincidence and Panda master slapped me for some mistakes we've done.

          Thanks for your time!
          If you find a solution or understand what happen, please share it, my 50 web site are still between 50 to 100 position down in the serp after 37 days now !
          thanks a lot for sharing
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        • Profile picture of the author TryBPO
          Originally Posted by ro1h02n4 View Post

          I guess I did't make myself very clear. My question was if you use unique IP for every site?

          I operate also almost 75 websites (5 niches) but last days all my sites loosed their SERP positions and I have to investigate and improve myself to get them back quickly. That's why I'm asking you about the IPs. After we've started share IPs between sites and not use unique ones for each one, everything started go wrong.

          Maybe there is just an coincidence and Panda master slapped me for some mistakes we've done.

          Thanks for your time!
          Nope same IP for every site. I think it maybe be a coincidence, but make sure you are not trying to connect the sites, especially if they are in unrelated niches.
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          • Profile picture of the author Shaon Sha
            Originally Posted by TryBPO View Post

            Nope same IP for every site. I think it maybe be a coincidence, but make sure you are not trying to connect the sites, especially if they are in unrelated niches.
            I do have 2GB reseller hosting account with single IP, so 20 MB space would be enough for a single site averaging 100 visitors in a day?

            Thanks
            Shaon
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          • Profile picture of the author ro1h02n4
            Originally Posted by TryBPO View Post

            Nope same IP for every site. I think it maybe be a coincidence, but make sure you are not trying to connect the sites, especially if they are in unrelated niches.

            Thanks Justin.

            I'm asking this because all my 75 website dropped in the SERPs and I thought that this happened because I've shared one unique IP per 3 different websites.

            Now I know that my assumption was wrong and I have to work on something else because my websites are in the Google's inferno.

            My BL's strategy it is totally wrong.

            Thanks man!
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            • Profile picture of the author freddylan
              i agree, i had the same issue with 50 of my web site de-ranked or sand boxed after trying to connect them (just one link) but in totally related niche !
              Best is to avoid any kind of link (i think) between you empire.
              Someone have an idea to get back in your ranking after that ( already one and a half month)?
              thanks
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              • Profile picture of the author ro1h02n4
                Originally Posted by freddylan View Post

                i agree, i had the same issue with 50 of my web site de-ranked or sand boxed after trying to connect them (just one link) but in totally related niche !
                Best is to avoid any kind of link (i think) between you empire.
                Someone have an idea to get back in your ranking after that ( already one and a half month)?
                thanks

                Hey Freddy,

                I didn't linked them (link farming). I changed them from using unique IPs addresses (Internet Protocol addresses) provided by my hosting company to using shared IPs....several websites using same IP addresses.
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  • Profile picture of the author sojibrahman
    when i recharece a keyword all time i affried about number of indexing page.ther have a keyword so low competition and hug amount search volume such as 80,000 [er month but this keyword make 25,00,000 search result.So can i build so much backlink and can i get 1st position on this keyword?
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    • Profile picture of the author falconsfire
      Hey TryBPO,

      Awesome thread, really inspiring for a newbie like me. I find it really interesting also that you're getting traffic from the images on your sites.

      Where do you guys get your images from? Buying them probably would add to the cost of the website which add to the total site costs which isn't great. Can you just cut and paste from google image search?

      thanks!

      PS. The other thing which is awesome is how much your sites have been selling for on Flippa, over $1195 for 4 sites!! that's amazing, nice to get funds to add to the $$ machine hehe
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  • Profile picture of the author TryBPO
    Jeremy,

    Interesting strategy. We have an off-line client that we're talking with about a similar approach, using the mini-sites to build his authority sites traffic. We're talking about testing it out with 50-100 sites for him and seeing where it goes from there.
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    • Profile picture of the author Jeremy Banks
      Originally Posted by TryBPO View Post

      Jeremy,

      Interesting strategy. We have an off-line client that we're talking with about a similar approach, using the mini-sites to build his authority sites traffic. We're talking about testing it out with 50-100 sites for him and seeing where it goes from there.
      Traffic from the mini sites is really just an added bonus to my overall strategy. I'm in it for the money!! It sort of goes like this

      • Micro niche site
        • about 2 weeks to a month to build and rank for desired keyword
        • Only going after one or two keywords
        • Make about 5 or 10 of these
        • Should make $5-$20 a day on adsense
      • Niche site
        • Takes a month - 3 months to build and rank and get decent traffic
        • Targeting about 10-20 keywords and building links to internal pages
        • Should make $20-$50 a day
        • Make a few of these
      • Authority site
        • Take up to a year to rank for high competition keyword
        • Targeting TONNES of keywords and getting lots of long-tail search
        • making over $100 a day (hopefully, I have two in the works now)
      So you see I make money all along the way. If I was just trying to rank an authority site I would think making a bunch of micro sites might be a waste of time and effort. Why not just put all that effort into creating quality content for the authority site. Creating link bait, viral videos, spend time finding link partners and so on.

      I just use that method because I built them to make money, might as well use them to link up to my other sites.
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      • Profile picture of the author axus_auto
        Originally Posted by Jeremy Banks View Post

        Traffic from the mini sites is really just an added bonus to my overall strategy. I'm in it for the money!! It sort of goes like this

        • Micro niche site
          • about 2 weeks to a month to build and rank for desired keyword
          • Only going after one or two keywords
          • Make about 5 or 10 of these
          • Should make $5-$20 a day on adsense
        How would you define these micro niche sites? How many exact local searches per month and CPC to get $5 - $20 per day? Also, do they have to be position 1 to earn that kind of money
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        • Profile picture of the author TryBPO
          Originally Posted by axus_auto View Post

          How would you define these micro niche sites? How many exact local searches per month and CPC to get $5 - $20 per day? Also, do they have to be position 1 to earn that kind of money
          From our testing you're looking at a target of $10 per month. That requires at least 900 exact searches a month and a CPC of at least $1 if your are on the bottom of page one. If you find keywords with more searches or an easier to rank first page you can adjust your numbers.

          We always like to be very conservative in our estimates. We want our target to be realistic. We know that if our process is followed, we get on the first page 80% of the time within 60 days. About 30% of the time we are in the first 3.

          It's a numbers game and if you approach it that way it works out beautifully.
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  • Profile picture of the author Halfdantimm
    Thank you, TryBPO, for an incredibly inspiring post! I am currently building niche sites as well, manually, why it takes a bit of time. Build up 4½ so far, and I am planning on building 50. Keep this thread going - Amazingly interesting!
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    • Profile picture of the author Shaon Sha
      Hii

      I am very much new here and I joined here because of this post.. excellent one.. I am also about to start this business model..

      so any tips or suggestion for a newbie in this business model?

      Thanks
      Shaon
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      • Profile picture of the author TryBPO
        Originally Posted by Shaon Sha View Post

        Hii

        I am very much new here and I joined here because of this post.. excellent one.. I am also about to start this business model..

        so any tips or suggestion for a newbie in this business model?

        Thanks
        Shaon
        Don't give up! Get the process down yourself from A-Z before outsourcing. This way you know what people are doing and if you are being ripped off or not. Patience and perseverance is the only way to approach the micro niche model.

        One of us was about to give up when we only made $32 in th first month, but spent more than $1000 in domain registrations (we created 44 sites) and full time assistants (we had two people working for us full time). It wasn't until month 3 that we began to see the light.

        Now the system it very profitable and produces healthy sites every month. The ball of wax just keeps growing, almost feeding on itself. Add it to our sales through Flippa.com and it makes for a nice revenue stream.

        The last bit of advice -- if you get stuck at a specific point just ask!
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        • Profile picture of the author Shaon Sha
          Originally Posted by TryBPO View Post

          Don't give up! Get the process down yourself from A-Z before outsourcing. This way you know what people are doing and if you are being ripped off or not. Patience and perseverance is the only way to approach the micro niche model.

          One of us was about to give up when we only made $32 in th first month, but spent more than $1000 in domain registrations (we created 44 sites) and full time assistants (we had two people working for us full time). It wasn't until month 3 that we began to see the light.

          Now the system it very profitable and produces healthy sites every month. The ball of wax just keeps growing, almost feeding on itself. Add it to our sales through Flippa.com and it makes for a nice revenue stream.

          The last bit of advice -- if you get stuck at a specific point just ask!
          Thanks a lot for your suggestions and inputs; I outsource only content writers which I am doing for many years for some clients (I mean I have writers in my network and I manage them to get my/client work done, this is where I make some money because Indian writers are very cheap) apart from that I could handle all the works related to SEO and web design.

          Thanks a lot again for your support.

          Shaon
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  • Profile picture of the author InTheMaking
    Sorry if you've answered this question before but.. how many websites do you have right now? and how much are they making in total?

    The reason why I ask is,

    1.Having many websites seems like a bunch of excessive work
    2.Creating content/backlinking for all of these websites month after month will get tiresome.
    3.Losing track of each website will be easy
    4.Maintaining all the websites will be hard
    5.If you get slapped, they'll all probably go down with it.

    I know you have outsourced workers but doesn't it make sense to focus on higher search volume keywords with the same competition? And find something that works and scale that? Maybe spend more time on keyword research?

    I mean I'm finding keywords that have 10-30k exact searches/month with EMD's avail and in about a week I've landed on my the first page making me 10-20 a day. I haven't outsourced anything I just know which niches convert.

    I would spend all this time creating an authority site that will bring in 100-200/day.
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    • Profile picture of the author TryBPO
      InTheMaking - We have quite a few sites. Around 350 domains purchased, around 300 sites up and running, and around 250 that are ranked.

      I'll try to answer your points:

      1. They're set and forget...not excessive. Only excessive if we expand them, which we probably will for some of the sites.

      2. Not any more tiresome than creating content for a couple of sites. I don't do anything, anyway...it's all done through our "machine"

      3. Easy to lose track of them? How's that?

      4. We really don't do any maintenance to speak of.

      5. This is an assumption? I'd be more worried if I had only one site. If we got slapped on that site "all" of our sites would go down, right?

      I'd like to spend "all this time" working on sites that make $1,000 per day...that would be GREAT! All the same, what we're doing is working for us and making us a pretty decent return on our (small) investment.

      You would have us stop the profitable process we're doing...stop the machine...and try something new? Wouldn't it be better to continue to do what we're doing and ADD something new, if what we're currently doing is working? Or did you just want us to try to do what you're doing? I don't get it....

      If you can knock out sites like this that make $100/day you're way better than us at this, I guess. That's fine though...it takes all levels, right?
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      • Profile picture of the author InTheMaking
        Originally Posted by TryBPO View Post

        InTheMaking - We have quite a few sites. Around 350 domains purchased, around 300 sites up and running, and around 250 that are ranked.

        I'll try to answer your points:

        1. They're set and forget...not excessive. Only excessive if we expand them, which we probably will for some of the sites.

        2. Not any more tiresome than creating content for a couple of sites. I don't do anything, anyway...it's all done through our "machine"

        3. Easy to lose track of them? How's that?

        4. We really don't do any maintenance to speak of.

        5. This is an assumption? I'd be more worried if I had only one site. If we got slapped on that site "all" of our sites would go down, right?

        I'd like to spend "all this time" working on sites that make $1,000 per day...that would be GREAT! All the same, what we're doing is working for us and making us a pretty decent return on our (small) investment.

        You would have us stop the profitable process we're doing...stop the machine...and try something new? Wouldn't it be better to continue to do what we're doing and ADD something new, if what we're currently doing is working? Or did you just want us to try to do what you're doing? I don't get it....

        If you can knock out sites like this that make $100/day you're way better than us at this, I guess. That's fine though...it takes all levels, right?

        I guess your right, when you have a whole system behind you. I was going from my experience. Having 10 sites to try and keep in the top 10 can get tiresome adding content, doing my backlinking etc when it's just me doing all of it.

        And when you say your just "setting and forgetting" well why? Obviously each website is going to make a few dollars a month, but if you pump out these sites and grab the #1 spot and forget it, sooner or later it's going to fall.

        I guess I'm just speaking from experience, obviously your knowledge is working the best for you so keep going at it.

        When I talked about finding something that works, you do have an automated system pumping out sites and making money from adsense which is a great way to earn some money. You are also correct by what I meant was to ADD other sources of income, CPA offers, Affiliate offers etc.

        I'm just speaking from what I know, best of luck!
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      • Profile picture of the author axus_auto
        Originally Posted by TryBPO View Post

        InTheMaking - We have quite a few sites. Around 350 domains purchased, around 300 sites up and running, and around 250 that are ranked.

        Just curious to know if you use brand names in your domain names? For me, it is hard to find EMDs that are generic

        What would be your take on trademarked domain names?
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        • Profile picture of the author TryBPO
          Originally Posted by axus_auto View Post

          Just curious to know if you use brand names in your domain names? For me, it is hard to find EMDs that are generic

          What would be your take on trademarked domain names?

          We sometimes use brand names but we never specifically target them. Out of all the domains we own, we have only been contacted 3 times by companies asking for us to relinquish the domain. We complied and that was the end of it.

          Our take is this -- be careful with trademarked names and make sure they never make up too much of your AdSense army, no more than 10-20%. You can't avoid them altogether as there are some very nice niches out there that contain trademarked names.

          If you are contacted by actual legal council, give up the site. You probably have invested very little in the micro niche site and it's not worth them going to your host or AdSense to cause your trouble. The cyber squatting law is very clear -- if they own the trademark, they own the domain. You might be able to negotiate a settlement (we have tried and failed), but your time is better spent on new sites and looking for better niches.
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          • Profile picture of the author axus_auto
            Originally Posted by TryBPO View Post

            We sometimes use brand names but we never specifically target them. Out of all the domains we own, we have only been contacted 3 times by companies asking for us to relinquish the domain. We complied and that was the end of it.

            Our take is this -- be careful with trademarked names and make sure they never make up too much of your AdSense army, no more than 10-20%. You can't avoid them altogether as there are some very nice niches out there that contain trademarked names.

            If you are contacted by actual legal council, give up the site. You probably have invested very little in the micro niche site and it's not worth them going to your host or AdSense to cause your trouble. The cyber squatting law is very clear -- if they own the trademark, they own the domain. You might be able to negotiate a settlement (we have tried and failed), but your time is better spent on new sites and looking for better niches.
            Thanks for the advice. Some of the brand name domains are just too juicy to let the opportunity pass
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    • Profile picture of the author freddylan
      "I mean I'm finding keywords that have 10-30k exact searches/month with EMD's avail and in about a week I've landed on my the first page making me 10-20 a day. I haven't outsourced anything I just know which niches convert."

      can you share your strategy and which kind of niches that can convert so fast? if you can rank on 1st page of google in just one week with this kind of keyword (what is your SOC, CTR, CPM ?) i will be very thankfull.

      Thanks again Justin for this great thread.
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      • Profile picture of the author InTheMaking
        Originally Posted by freddylan View Post

        "I mean I'm finding keywords that have 10-30k exact searches/month with EMD's avail and in about a week I've landed on my the first page making me 10-20 a day. I haven't outsourced anything I just know which niches convert."

        can you share your strategy and which kind of niches that can convert so fast? if you can rank on 1st page of google in just one week with this kind of keyword (what is your SOC, CTR, CPM ?) i will be very thankfull.

        Thanks again Justin for this great thread.
        I use CPA a lot, for instance The iPad 2 just came out. I grabbed a keyword with about 4400 Exact Searches/month, did my backlinking strategy I always do and landed on the first page. I toss up "win a free iPad" with the 30-40 visitors I get to my website right now I have 1-2 conversions. 8.00/conversion = $8-16/day.

        It's simple when you keep it simple.
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        • Profile picture of the author Jeremy Banks
          Originally Posted by axus_auto View Post

          How would you define these micro niche sites? How many exact local searches per month and CPC to get $5 - $20 per day? Also, do they have to be position 1 to earn that kind of money
          For exact monthly local searches I never dip below 1500 usually going for 1500-3000 and sometimes more, but one of my sites has (supposedly) 3600 local monthly searches and I get 200-300 visits a day with a bit of long tail or related search results sending traffic.

          I NEVER look at CPC when choosing a keyword, but my sites tend to get .30-$1.00 per click.

          Position 1 is nice, but some float around 2,3,4

          Usually the main keyword will have 2500 monthly searches with other related keywords having 1000, 700, 500 etc so I go after all those as well
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        • Profile picture of the author freddylan
          "I use CPA a lot, for instance The iPad 2 just came out. I grabbed a keyword with about 4400 Exact Searches/month, did my backlinking strategy I always do and landed on the first page. I toss up "win a free iPad" with the 30-40 visitors I get to my website right now I have 1-2 conversions. 8.00/conversion = $8-16/day.

          It's simple when you keep it simple."

          Thanks a lot, you just give me a great idea, i have as well a mini page on the ipad with 4400 exact search (it is really true!)
          and i was very proud of me to get the first page in a week on its launch in march 2011! but it was very short just 2 weeks and since it is still sandboxed or de-ranked. i had during this 2 weeks 30-40 UV a day as well, but only adsense and amazone affiliate and my total income was about 1 $...
          i think my mistake was in my back link strategie : i just do article marketing using UAW, submitting 3 spun article in UAW in a rate of 3 article by days but with the same title and res box!! and after a few days my web page disappear from the serps.
          Can you tell me which exact cpa offer are you using, i will test it as well and hopefully have the same result as you (if my web page get out of the sandbox one day).
          Can you as well explain a little bit "my backlinking strategy I always do" to share the big line of your backlink strategy

          thanks a lot i will keep it simple
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          • Profile picture of the author InTheMaking
            Originally Posted by freddylan View Post

            "I use CPA a lot, for instance The iPad 2 just came out. I grabbed a keyword with about 4400 Exact Searches/month, did my backlinking strategy I always do and landed on the first page. I toss up "win a free iPad" with the 30-40 visitors I get to my website right now I have 1-2 conversions. 8.00/conversion = $8-16/day.

            It's simple when you keep it simple."

            Thanks a lot, you just give me a great idea, i have as well a mini page on the ipad with 4400 exact search (it is really true!)
            and i was very proud of me to get the first page in a week on its launch in march 2011! but it was very short just 2 weeks and since it is still sandboxed or de-ranked. i had during this 2 weeks 30-40 UV a day as well, but only adsense and amazone affiliate and my total income was about 1 $...
            i think my mistake was in my back link strategie : i just do article marketing using UAW, submitting 3 spun article in UAW in a rate of 3 article by days but with the same title and res box!! and after a few days my web page disappear from the serps.
            Can you tell me which exact cpa offer are you using, i will test it as well and hopefully have the same result as you (if my web page get out of the sandbox one day).
            Can you as well explain a little bit "my backlinking strategy I always do" to share the big line of your backlink strategy

            thanks a lot i will keep it simple
            freddy you seem a lot like myself a couple of months ago, I'm going to pm you with my skype, add me there and I'll tell you everything you need to know.
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            • Profile picture of the author freddylan
              Originally Posted by InTheMaking View Post

              freddy you seem a lot like myself a couple of months ago, I'm going to pm you with my skype, add me there and I'll tell you everything you need to know.
              Thanks a lot.
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  • Profile picture of the author JamesM
    Thanks for sharing Justin. Out of interest, have considered using an ad server that would help manage you ad blocks and also allow you to use affiliate and CPA offers on a page-level basis?

    I recently did this myself and managed to double the income from the sites in question.
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    • Profile picture of the author TryBPO
      Originally Posted by JamesM View Post

      Thanks for sharing Justin. Out of interest, have considered using an ad server that would help manage you ad blocks and also allow you to use affiliate and CPA offers on a page-level basis?

      I recently did this myself and managed to double the income from the sites in question.
      Interesting you should say this because it was recommended to us by the AdSense optimization team when we met with them last month. It's down the list of things to do, but yes it is something we want to implement.

      Who are you using?

      Was it hard to do?
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      • Profile picture of the author Shaon Sha
        What is it all about Ad server?

        Thanks
        Shaon
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        • Profile picture of the author TryBPO
          Originally Posted by Shaon Sha View Post

          What is it all about Ad server?

          Thanks
          Shaon
          The one that the Google AdSense rep recommended to me was their Double Click For Publishers Small Business. I have not looked into it much yet, but you could find more info here:

          https://www.google.com/dfp/info/sb/i...adserving_page
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          • Profile picture of the author Shaon Sha
            Thank you Justin,

            I have a query on hosting; a 2GB reseller (shared) account would be enough for 20 sites? i.e 100 mb for each

            Where you buy bulk domain names from?

            Thanks
            Shaon
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            • Profile picture of the author TryBPO
              Originally Posted by Shaon Sha View Post

              Thank you Justin,

              I have a query on hosting; a 2GB reseller (shared) account would be enough for 20 sites? i.e 100 mb for each

              Where you buy bulk domain names from?

              Thanks
              Shaon
              More than enough for simple single keyword 5 page niche sites.

              We use GoDaddy for everything.
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              • Profile picture of the author Shaon Sha
                Thanks a lot Justin..

                Sorry if I am throwing so many questions..

                do you submit each sit xml map to Google webmaster tool?

                Shaon
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  • Profile picture of the author TryBPO
    Yes, we submit sitemaps to GWT for each of our sites.

    Many people take the approach of trying to be "sneaky" with Google, trying to "trick" users into clicking ads, etc. and we think that's a bad approach. We'd rather be overly transparent. We feel it builds trust and helps other open up, providing us tips and tricks that we never would have learned otherwise.

    We (try to be) very engaging with the people that are active on our site and hopefully learn from them as much as they learn from us. We're by no means experts or "gurus"...we're just like you, but happen to have a cheap labor source readily available to us and experience in running outsourcing campaigns.
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    • Profile picture of the author Shaon Sha
      Originally Posted by TryBPO View Post

      Yes, we submit sitemaps to GWT for each of our sites.
      So, how do you do this; do you submit each xml site map manually to GWT? and do we need to repeat the process whenever we add new pages?

      Is there any tools to automate this process; I am familiar with Wordpress and I am used only with html, which one would be better for these kind of micro niche sites?

      Thanks
      Shaon
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      • Profile picture of the author DireStraits
        Originally Posted by Shaon Sha View Post

        So, how do you do this; do you submit each xml site map manually to GWT? and do we need to repeat the process whenever we add new pages?

        Is there any tools to automate this process; I am familiar with Wordpress and I am used only with html, which one would be better for these kind of micro niche sites?

        Thanks
        Shaon
        I use the "MU" functionality of Wordpress for my network of AdSense/Amazon sites, and a single, central installation of this plugin automatically generates XML sitemaps for every single one of my sites, and keeps them automatically updated each time a page is added/removed.

        You submit the URL to your XML sitemap via GWT once for each site, when it's first launched, and Google then automatically "pulls in" the sitemap periodically to look for updates, with no further action required on your part.
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        • Profile picture of the author Shaon Sha
          Originally Posted by DireStraits View Post

          I use the "MU" functionality of Wordpress for my network of AdSense/Amazon sites, and a single, central installation automatically generates XML sitemaps for every single one of my sites, and keeps them automatically updated each time a page is added/removed.

          You submit the URL to your XML sitemap via GWT once for each site, when it's first launched, and Google then automatically "pulls in" the sitemap periodically to look for updates, with no further action required on your part.
          Thanks a lot mate..

          In my case my pages are html static, still I dont need to resubmit my sitemap feed to GKT whenever I add new pages? so I just need to submit only once?

          Thanks
          Shaon
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  • Profile picture of the author agnelrollins194
    Google is a woman very demanding, so you need a multi-tiered approach to please him. Take advantage of the PageRank of web traffic to other sites, but also build your website you have built up trust if you rely only on a mini-sites or Web 2.0s, or sites of authority.
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  • Profile picture of the author retsek
    I also use the Network functionality in Wordpress for my army of small niche sites. It makes life so much easier. All my sites share a single copy of the themes and plugins directory. Thats makes it a snap to update themes, tweak ad layout across dozens of sites, update plugins and update wordpress itself.
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  • Profile picture of the author TryBPO
    Yes, we manually submit sitemaps to GKT and use the Google Sitemap XML plugin available for Wordpress.
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  • Profile picture of the author TryBPO
    Nice!

    We just got our AdSense channels bumped to 500 from 200. That will make reporting on individual URL's much easier. You can check out our May 2011 income here:
    Income Report - May 2011 | AdSense Flippers

    Quick update: We're up to 391 URL's with around 350 sites up. Someone asked us recently if we use one hosting account or multiple. We've continued to use one, unlimited hosting account via GoDaddy. In our experience, people mention hosting account for two reasons:

    1. Hide from Google
    Unless you're breaking the ToS, doing something shady, etc. this seems a bit silly to me. They can find you so easily with the other tools we use, that this isn't an issue for us, honestly.

    2. Avoiding server downtime
    A bit more valid...there are times where we noticed all of our sites were down, loading slow, etc...but you would still have these problems, they'd just be split up over multiple accounts, unless you had a dedicated server...and even then there are problems. According to Joe who's a bit more technical than me, the traffic and storage we have on our sites is negligible and any heavy loads or slow load times would probably be from someone else on the server.
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    • Profile picture of the author Shaon Sha
      Congrats Justin...

      Your story is much inspiring...

      I would like to know if you follow any kind of link building process for your sites?

      Thanks
      Shaon
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  • Profile picture of the author Halfdantimm
    Thanks for all the brilliant info!

    Are you still using SeNuke X to build links, or has that changed?
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  • Profile picture of the author James-
    The the OP, it sounds like you have done all the hard labor work already. If you stop making sites now and concentrate your efforts on link building to get the majority of your sites ranked 1-5 then that would dramatically improve your earnings.

    But then you already knew that right? Not sure why you havnt wanted to do this sooner rather than making more sites
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    2 nuts walked into a bar, 1 was assaulted! :p

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    • Profile picture of the author InTheMaking
      TryBPO, I was talking to you earlier about adsense sites and I was saying how they must have been the lowest source of income for a site, so I gave it a try. Threw up about 5-7 sites, most were EMD's, I think 2 were not.

      Within a matter of 2-3 weeks my adsense income is about 20-30/day. I guess the big winner with adsense is that any and all sites make money regardless of the keyword, etc.
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      • Profile picture of the author TryBPO
        Originally Posted by InTheMaking View Post

        TryBPO, I was talking to you earlier about adsense sites and I was saying how they must have been the lowest source of income for a site, so I gave it a try. Threw up about 5-7 sites, most were EMD's, I think 2 were not.

        Within a matter of 2-3 weeks my adsense income is about 20-30/day. I guess the big winner with adsense is that any and all sites make money regardless of the keyword, etc.
        Way to go! Yes it all comes down to a numbers game. If you figure out when you will recover your initial investment and how to scale it, you will have a nice source of income for a long time.

        Best of luck!
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        • Profile picture of the author Deltia
          Hi TryBPO,

          First i want to say thanks as i got my first domain a while back from a thread you did on here so it really gave me that first big push to get started i'm finally starting to rank decently for it and seeing traffic on the up and up now which is great!

          couple of questions

          i have seen from your sites that you have a standardized theme - is this a pre built available one or one you got designed/built by yourself?

          i have a list of EMD's i have found , but their CPC given by GKT aren't always that high. do you have a definitive cut off for level of CPC or do you balance it around the search volume?

          Thanks,
          Dan
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          • Profile picture of the author TryBPO
            Originally Posted by Deltia View Post

            Hi TryBPO,

            First i want to say thanks as i got my first domain a while back from a thread you did on here so it really gave me that first big push to get started i'm finally starting to rank decently for it and seeing traffic on the up and up now which is great!

            couple of questions

            i have seen from your sites that you have a standardized theme - is this a pre built available one or one you got designed/built by yourself?

            i have a list of EMD's i have found , but their CPC given by GKT aren't always that high. do you have a definitive cut off for level of CPC or do you balance it around the search volume?

            Thanks,
            Dan
            That's great to hear Dan, thanks!

            We've tried a couple of themes and noticed similar #'s. The one we're currently (mostly) using is free and we had one of our guys modify it just a bit.

            We don't have a definitive cut off as you mentioned, we do base it around search volume. The reason we've done this, really, is for diversity. We have some sites that receive a ton of traffic, low CTR, and low CPC...but they earn enough simply because of the amount of traffic. Truthfully, for those sites, we'd probably be better off monetizing differently, but haven't got to that yet.
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    • Profile picture of the author TryBPO
      Originally Posted by James- View Post

      The the OP, it sounds like you have done all the hard labor work already. If you stop making sites now and concentrate your efforts on link building to get the majority of your sites ranked 1-5 then that would dramatically improve your earnings.

      But then you already knew that right? Not sure why you havnt wanted to do this sooner rather than making more sites
      Good point James and we may start working on link building efforts, but we have also found the secondary market is quite ripe for our sites as well. With our access to cheap labor, we can build out our network while selling some sites to cover our overhead. Think of it as a dividend reinvestment strategy for AdSense niche sites.
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    • Profile picture of the author TryBPO
      Originally Posted by James- View Post

      The the OP, it sounds like you have done all the hard labor work already. If you stop making sites now and concentrate your efforts on link building to get the majority of your sites ranked 1-5 then that would dramatically improve your earnings.

      But then you already knew that right? Not sure why you havnt wanted to do this sooner rather than making more sites
      James, you make a really good point. We decided to take a look at this recently, and determined that our ROI for adding content to current sites vs. adding new sites was about the same, when you look at our entire network overall:
      Minisite Vs. Authority Site: Content ROI Is Key | AdSense Flippers

      When you look at our "Top Tier" sites, however, adding content looks like it gives a better ROI, because we already know which of those sites have made it to that top tier status, allowing us to focus on those that are best setup and in position to earn.

      We compare it to setting u pa social networking site...most understand that the value is in collecting the users first...you can find out how to monetize them later. Our users, here, are the sites themselves...we can figure out how to really optimize them for maximum earnings later. Our advantage to social networking sites, though, is that even ACQUIRING the users is a profitable process for us...so we're happy to continue until we find that our efforts would be better served by tending to the flock we currently have...make sense?
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  • Profile picture of the author TryBPO
    Wow...

    So we just had our first $100 plus day strictly from AdSense earnings! We've had a couple of $90+ days, but this was our first day of breaking that barrier.

    Thanks so much to everyone's that's helped us along, taught us so much, etc. It's quite a bit of work, but we've been able to make it happen within 6 months and we're very excited about the future. Due to the fact we're scaling up, we'd really like to be at the 9K - 10K/month range by December...we'll let you know how it goes!!
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    • Profile picture of the author Shaon Sha
      Congrats Justin for your 100 a day....

      so how many sites you running as of now? if you dont mind.
      I had a query about link building somewhere above, you might have missed it in your celebrations!..
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      • Profile picture of the author InTheMaking
        TryBPO, you mentioned you just had your first $100 day and as I recall you have about 350 websites?

        Would it be not better to go for higher searched terms? The reason why I say that is because I took your advice and jumped in with adsense and within a month I'm up to about 20-30/day on average with yesterday being my biggest day of $50.98 with adsense.

        Obviously it's not usually this high but this is just me doing my backlinking/content writing myself and I still go to school lol.

        It seems as if you guys are wasting too much time on low search terms or don't have the ability to rank for more competitive terms.
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        • Profile picture of the author TryBPO
          Originally Posted by Shaon Sha View Post

          Congrats Justin for your 100 a day....

          so how many sites you running as of now? if you dont mind.
          I had a query about link building somewhere above, you might have missed it in your celebrations!..
          Thanks! It has been a long 7 months but we are finally there!

          We are at 416 active URL channels, but please remember we have ramped up production to 25 sites a week recently, so 50 of those sites were created in the last 2 weeks and 25 of those domains were just bought on Monday. So I would say this only represents a network of about 341 sites. And some of those are still under a month old!

          Sorry we missed your back linking question -- right now all links are built manually through forums, profiles, and article directories (using well known link packages or free tools). We build 40-100 links this way per site. We have tried SENukeX but think it is over kill for micro niche stuff like this.

          Originally Posted by InTheMaking View Post

          TryBPO, you mentioned you just had your first $100 day and as I recall you have about 350 websites?

          Would it be not better to go for higher searched terms? The reason why I say that is because I took your advice and jumped in with adsense and within a month I'm up to about 20-30/day on average with yesterday being my biggest day of $50.98 with adsense.

          Obviously it's not usually this high but this is just me doing my backlinking/content writing myself and I still go to school lol.

          It seems as if you guys are wasting too much time on low search terms or don't have the ability to rank for more competitive terms.
          Please keep in mind that some of our sites have not come to full revenue maturation at this point. If we stopped production now, our daily numbers would surely continue to increase.

          That said, you are right, we need to go after terms with larger search volume. We have tweaked our keyword research formula to go after terms with more SEO competition, a lower CPC, but still a weak first page and more searches per month. In the beginning it was all about a repeatable process that is scalable and works a large percentage of the time. The low hanging fruit so to say. Now that we know that works, we can move on to bigger and better things.
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          • Profile picture of the author Shaon Sha
            Originally Posted by TryBPO View Post

            Sorry we missed your back linking question -- right now all links are built manually through forums, profiles, and article directories (using well known link packages or free tools). We build 40-100 links this way per site. We have tried SENukeX but think it is over kill for micro niche stuff like this.
            "using well known link package means; something you have mentioned in your handbook?

            I just started building sites, as beginning and to see some early result I found for keywords very less search volume like 500, with high competition (competition box is full in GKT) and high CPC like $15 plus with very less SEO competition too. But when I checked the same keyword in wordtracker paid tool the search volume is too high may be traffic from Yahoo, Bing and all..

            would you recommend to start with these kind of keywords?

            Thanks
            Shaon
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            • Profile picture of the author TryBPO
              Originally Posted by Shaon Sha View Post

              "using well known link package means; something you have mentioned in your handbook?

              I just started building sites, as beginning and to see some early result I found for keywords very less search volume like 500, with high competition (competition box is full in GKT) and high CPC like $15 plus with very less SEO competition too. But when I checked the same keyword in wordtracker paid tool the search volume is too high may be traffic from Yahoo, Bing and all..

              would you recommend to start with these kind of keywords?

              Thanks
              Shaon
              Yes, stuff we mention in our free handbook like OnlyWire and SubmitYourArticle. There are also some forum/profile link packages out there, that work to a lesser degree.

              I can't speak to the effectiveness of Wordtracker over GKT but sticking with the exact match searches in GKT works best. Starting off, it's best to be concerned with search volume over CPC, as sometimes AdSense will show ads unrelated to you sites content.

              First page competition should be the biggest indicator of what you should go after -- a tough first page will mean you have to put in a lot of work to rank, which translates into extra time and money. Starting out you don't have that. Go after the low hanging fruit and work your way up!
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        • Profile picture of the author Shaon Sha
          Originally Posted by InTheMaking View Post


          Obviously it's not usually this high but this is just me doing my backlinking/content writing myself and I still go to school lol.
          Hello InTheMaking.... congrats for your success and you did it in a month?? amazing..

          How many site do you have for this result and what is your link building procedure?

          Thanks
          Shaon
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  • Profile picture of the author Shakd
    I have also wanted to go all out and scale up. Just scared of the outcome when I'm not really ready to take on so many at a time. Still fairly new to the system.
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    • Profile picture of the author TryBPO
      Originally Posted by Shakd View Post

      I have also wanted to go all out and scale up. Just scared of the outcome when I'm not really ready to take on so many at a time. Still fairly new to the system.
      Go for it! At first I (Joe) was very concerned about scaling the process. I had heard so much about AdSense account being banned, deindexing, etc that I thought it was too risky. Then Justin showed me the light. Things have been very good to us in the last few months.

      It was a tough road getting here however. Expect to put a lot of man hours in for not much pay out in the first few months. Just be patient!
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  • Profile picture of the author mmsearch
    Not sure if anyone asked this yet- but I was wondering if you could shed some light on a couple questions i have.

    1. where do you find the pictures that you use on your sites?

    2. I notice that your main post on your home page is the keyword you are targetting.
    How do you come up with the titles/keywords for the other articles on your sites.

    Anyway thanks for this thread and for your site- learned quite a bit
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    • Profile picture of the author TryBPO
      Originally Posted by mmsearch View Post

      Not sure if anyone asked this yet- but I was wondering if you could shed some light on a couple questions i have.

      1. where do you find the pictures that you use on your sites?

      2. I notice that your main post on your home page is the keyword you are targetting.
      How do you come up with the titles/keywords for the other articles on your sites.

      Anyway thanks for this thread and for your site- learned quite a bit
      Sure, we're pretty open about our process.

      1) We simply search Google Images for related terms (not exact match) and use those images. We stay away from sites with obvious copyrights or trademarks. In a pinch, we'll use stock images.

      2) Market Samurai using the primary keyword as our root. Open up the filters a bit (lower SEOC, but lower SEOV and exact match searches). Sometimes you need to get creative if the primary if very specific. But Market Samurai really does all the work.

      Hope that helps!
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  • Profile picture of the author mmsearch
    Great- thanks for the info!

    Really helps out a lot. I was kind of stuck at this point.
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    • Profile picture of the author dnwn
      TryBPO (Justin and James);

      You may not imagine how happy I was when I found your thread. I really appreciate your detailed explanation and congratulate your success. The reason why I am really happy is that I am doing the same thing as you do but what I do is not exactly same.

      I am completely new in IM. I am a full-time engineer so I did not have time to look into the details of AdSense and all about. I tried to buy some sites which generate extra revenues but I was ripped off more than $50K total. I basically lost all my first house down payment. It was a complete disaster.

      After that I thought I needed to build micro niche AdSense sites with others help (not buying a big sites) so I found some active Flippa AdSense sellers last year. I made a contract to build 500+ AdSense in one year. The project is going on now and will be done by the end of this year. I will get them all next year. Currently the developer uses their own affiliate ids so that I could lower the total project cost. I did not know all the issues about Google Panda etc but I start to know a bit about those...then I started to worry about the project that I am pursuing since I will lose all my investment again at one time. But there was nothing I could do because the project was rolling...

      Now I was motivated to know all about the AdSense sites and SEO work so when I get 500+ sites under my control I can handle them. I purchased 7 domains last Friday and they were the first domains to me in my life. I do not know what to do but I purchase them first and need to move. Right now I am searching a good writer and seems like one lady is willing to dedicate.

      All my domains are keywords with monthly local search more than 5,000 and most of them are coupon sites...A bit worry about trademark laws and high competitions. I do not know how I should do SEO works but I will face it and think about it when I have all articles for the sites.

      I have several questions if you can answer.

      1) Google tax report: I know that Google will report my AdSense earnings to IRS. My intention is not to pay proper tax but want to know some information. I would like to know when Google are reporting. I will have an AdSense account option 'hold my earnings' which makes Google does not send my earnings to me (my earnings will sit at the account and Google will not pay until I disable this option). In this case, does Google still report my earnings to IRS every year?
      2) Transferring sites over to me: When all sites currently under development are transferring to my AdSense ID's, is it dangerous to have all in a single day? Since sites would be all aged, there would be no sandboxed issues, right?
      3) Your Wordpress theme: Could you tell me how I can get the Wordpress them that you use? Would you like to share it with me? I think you mentioned that you tweak the basic them a little bit. When I go into cPanel and install Wordpress, I had all the same format. I do not know how to change and fix it with the formats that you used. Can you explain briefly?
      4) I still do not understand the issue 'You submit the URL to your XML sitemap via GWT once for each site, when it's first launched, and Google then automatically "pulls in" the sitemap periodically to look for updates, with no further action required on your part.' What is XML sitemap?

      I registered your mailing list and downloaded AdSense flipping blueprint. Thanks a lot for information.

      PS- the free pdf's name (file name) for your site has one misspelling if I am not wrong. 'Flopping' should be 'Flipping', right?
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      • Profile picture of the author TryBPO
        Originally Posted by dnwn View Post

        TryBPO (Justin and James);
        It's Joe, BTW, but that's ok I probably need to get my name out a bit more!

        Originally Posted by dnwn View Post


        You may not imagine how happy I was when I found your thread. I really appreciate your detailed explanation and congratulate your success. The reason why I am really happy is that I am doing the same thing as you do but what I do is not exactly same.
        Glad to hear it! Be sure to stop by our site and join the discussion. There's a lot of out there and we all have similar issues and successes. There's plenty of business to go around, so we feel being upfront and open about most of the process is a good idea.

        Originally Posted by dnwn View Post

        I am completely new in IM. I am a full-time engineer so I did not have time to look into the details of AdSense and all about. I tried to buy some sites which generate extra revenues but I was ripped off more than $50K total. I basically lost all my first house down payment. It was a complete disaster.
        Wow, $50k is a lot to spend on a network of sites. The best way to get into this is to dip your toe in first and test the water. Go easy in the beginning. Build some sites yourself and understand the process, so you know what you are getting into. Then, if you want to build a network quickly, but don't have the time to organize outsourcers or do it yourself, buy a small number of earning sites to start things off. Use the dividends to reinvest in new sites.

        Originally Posted by dnwn View Post


        After that I thought I needed to build micro niche AdSense sites with others help (not buying a big sites) so I found some active Flippa AdSense sellers last year. I made a contract to build 500+ AdSense in one year. The project is going on now and will be done by the end of this year. I will get them all next year. Currently the developer uses their own affiliate ids so that I could lower the total project cost. I did not know all the issues about Google Panda etc but I start to know a bit about those...then I started to worry about the project that I am pursuing since I will lose all my investment again at one time. But there was nothing I could do because the project was rolling...

        Now I was motivated to know all about the AdSense sites and SEO work so when I get 500+ sites under my control I can handle them. I purchased 7 domains last Friday and they were the first domains to me in my life. I do not know what to do but I purchase them first and need to move. Right now I am searching a good writer and seems like one lady is willing to dedicate.

        All my domains are keywords with monthly local search more than 5,000 and most of them are coupon sites...A bit worry about trademark laws and high competitions. I do not know how I should do SEO works but I will face it and think about it when I have all articles for the sites.
        The "high competitions" worries me the most. If you are new, you really need to go after the low hanging fruit. Look for first pages with little to no exact match of your keyword in the title, domain, and URL. Then look at inlinks to all of these pages using a tool like Market Samurai or Long Tail Pro (you could do it manually through Yahoo Site Explorer too). Pages with more than 40 inlinks are going to be hard to beat quickly. If many of the results (more than 5) have that with exact match in the title/domain/URL then stay away.

        Originally Posted by dnwn View Post

        I have several questions if you can answer.

        1) Google tax report: I know that Google will report my AdSense earnings to IRS. My intention is not to pay proper tax but want to know some information. I would like to know when Google are reporting. I will have an AdSense account option 'hold my earnings' which makes Google does not send my earnings to me (my earnings will sit at the account and Google will not pay until I disable this option). In this case, does Google still report my earnings to IRS every year?
        If you haven't filed the payment options I don't know how Google could report your income, but I am not a tax professional either. I would recommend setting up a corporation and doing it right. Don't fool around here and lose your earnings.

        Originally Posted by dnwn View Post

        2) Transferring sites over to me: When all sites currently under development are transferring to my AdSense ID's, is it dangerous to have all in a single day? Since sites would be all aged, there would be no sandboxed issues, right?
        Well, we have transferred sites to people with new AdSense accounts without issue. However, I would advise trickling them in slowly especially if you have a lot of income.

        You need to know the difference between the AdSense team and the search team at Google. The AdSense team can ban your AdSense account for TOS violations, but can't sandbox or deindex your sites. That's the search team and they do it for a variety of reason including spammy links on your site or duplicate content.

        Originally Posted by dnwn View Post

        3) Your Wordpress theme: Could you tell me how I can get the Wordpress them that you use? Would you like to share it with me? I think you mentioned that you tweak the basic them a little bit. When I go into cPanel and install Wordpress, I had all the same format. I do not know how to change and fix it with the formats that you used. Can you explain briefly?
        Just Google search "ProSense Blue" and you will find it. We modified it a bit, but you should be able to use the basic layout. I also recommend CTR Theme. You can change your theme from the WP admin page under "Appearance".

        Originally Posted by dnwn View Post

        4) I still do not understand the issue 'You submit the URL to your XML sitemap via GWT once for each site, when it's first launched, and Google then automatically "pulls in" the sitemap periodically to look for updates, with no further action required on your part.' What is XML sitemap?
        An XML sitemap is simply a map of all pages on your site.

        Use the WP plugin "xml sitemap feed" and it will do everything for you. Create a link to the page created by this plugin (domain.com/sitemap.xml) in your site's footer. Submit this link to Webmaster Tools under Sitemap Submission.

        Originally Posted by dnwn View Post

        I registered your mailing list and downloaded AdSense flipping blueprint. Thanks a lot for information.

        PS- the free pdf's name (file name) for your site has one misspelling if I am not wrong. 'Flopping' should be 'Flipping', right?
        You're welcome, but 'Flopping' is the correct term. Flopping refers to flipping sites that are under performing in your network while flipping is simply reselling any website you created or bought.
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  • Profile picture of the author JackPowers
    Cool thread.

    I have to agree that going for 1st-3rd is worth it most of the time. Remember that about 50% of all searchers click the top 3.
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    • Profile picture of the author TryBPO
      Originally Posted by JackPowers View Post

      Cool thread.

      I have to agree that going for 1st-3rd is worth it most of the time. Remember that about 50% of all searchers click the top 3.
      Agreed, checkout this link for more info:

      Google Organic SEO Click Through Rates
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  • Profile picture of the author mmsearch
    Hey again - have some further questions if you dont mind

    Had a peek at some of the sites you had for sale- i noticed that you have filled in all the fields for all in one seo for each and every post.

    Can you give me your thoughts on this? The reason i ask is that i had some sites built for me in the past and the person said it wasnt necessary to fill in all the info for all in one on every post- ie descript and kw.

    Should i be doing this? Is it better for seo purposes?

    THanks
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    • Profile picture of the author TryBPO
      Originally Posted by mmsearch View Post

      Hey again - have some further questions if you dont mind

      Had a peek at some of the sites you had for sale- i noticed that you have filled in all the fields for all in one seo for each and every post.

      Can you give me your thoughts on this? The reason i ask is that i had some sites built for me in the past and the person said it wasnt necessary to fill in all the info for all in one on every post- ie descript and kw.

      Should i be doing this? Is it better for seo purposes?

      THanks
      We use the All-In-One SEO plugin because it's easy for our reps to use and is built into our "system". The title and description are important (should be enticing, as it's what will be seen on the SERP and helps people decide whether they want to click through or not). The meta keywords are not looked at by Google, but i believe Bing/Yahoo still looks at them? Either way, easy to fill in...just takes a few seconds.
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  • Profile picture of the author Halfdantimm
    Hey there! :-)

    I noticed you used SubmitYourArticle to build backlinks for the new sites. Have you considered using Article Marketing Robot, or is there a reason why you chose SMA?
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  • Profile picture of the author TryBPO
    Hey Halfdan!

    No particular reason, really. We were looking at UAW and SYA and I had a conversation with an outsourcing client (non IM, but does some IM personally) that said he went through the same decision-making and chose SYA for the ezine submissions. (I don't know...maybe UAW didn't do ezinearticles at the time?) Anyway, we went with SYA and didn't look back.

    Funny thing, we no longer use SYA to submit to EA. We take the unique content and submit to EA first and then submit various versions to the network on SYA.

    I've actually used SYA for article marketing for AdSenseFlippers, but chose not to spin the articles at all...just good content syndicated through their network. I might lose some of the benefits of the uniqueness, but since I wrote the articles I just didn't feel good about spinning them at all. I've been wondering about spinning overall, but that's for another discussion, I guess.
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  • Profile picture of the author Barry Unruh
    Hey Joe,

    I just read a couple of posts on your Blog concerning your use of Market Samurai and your Keyword Research methods. Very nice process, but brings up one question in my mind.

    Is there a reason you do not use the Adwords CPC figures in Market Samurai and prefer to use the information in Google Adwords Keyword Tool? It just seemed like an extra step since the numbers are available in MS.


    FYI for anyone who has not read those posts, you should...They are here:

    Our Keyword Research Strategy Part 1 | AdSense Flippers

    Our Keyword Research Strategy Part 2 | AdSense Flippers

    Great thread here of the Warrior Forum and very informative blog...Thanks for all the great info.

    Barry
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  • Profile picture of the author TryBPO
    Hey, Barry...thanks for the KW strategy mention!

    We do use MS to get a cpc estimate, but since we're in the Google Keyword Tool in part 2 anyway, we double check the cpc stats that MS pulled. We're there anyway and it's a quick head-check. Not to mention the fact that MS can be a bit off. We've seen it off by as much as 4x what we thought we were going to get vs what Google Keyword Tool shows.

    No tools are perfect or exactly correct, of course, but it's a good way to verify the numbers look good...especially if you're getting down to it and about to purchase domains. I'm going through this step as I write this, actually.

    By the way, a friend of mine wrote a book titled, "Hey Joe" about the craziness of living in the Philippines. Whether you live here now or are considering coming out here, it's worth a read if you want to check it out:
    Amazon.com: Hey, Joe (9789719303312): Ted Lerner:...Amazon.com: Hey, Joe (9789719303312): Ted Lerner:...
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  • Profile picture of the author boxoun
    You mentioned adsense under post titles is "aggressive" are you still doing this and can you comment any further on it as related to tos?
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  • Profile picture of the author TryBPO
    Hey there,

    The AdSense rep we met with used the term "aggressive" which is why we mention it. It's hard to hear my tone when I write it, but basically she told us it's fine.

    What would NOT be fine, however, is if your post title was something like this:

    Click here for the best deals:

    We avoid post titles that would encourage people to click on the ads...that, I think, would be too far.
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    • Profile picture of the author markowe
      Originally Posted by TryBPO View Post

      Hey there,

      The AdSense rep we met with used the term "aggressive" which is why we mention it. It's hard to hear my tone when I write it, but basically she told us it's fine.

      What would NOT be fine, however, is if your post title was something like this:

      Click here for the best deals:

      We avoid post titles that would encourage people to click on the ads...that, I think, would be too far.
      I keep mulling over this - I have a site that would increase revenue by 30-50% if I did this, but I am just a bit wary of it, despite what you say above. I guess the problem might be if the increase in CTR leads to a decrease in the conversion rate, i.e. too many idle clickers - that could be a problem. So am still kind of in two minds about this, even though I am doing it on some sites.
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      • Profile picture of the author TryBPO
        Originally Posted by fekfek View Post

        I didn't say stop. I just wondered what is your goal.
        Our 3 primary goals:

        1) Make enough passive income that we can retire on a beach somewhere or at least afford to take jobs doing something cool that pays peanuts. We are probably 1-2 years from this goal.

        2) Make the site building machine self perpetuating while using site sales only for quick capital in new ventures or that dream holiday of traveling India, South America and Eastern Europe. We have almost achieved this and should have it by the end of the year, if we hit projections.

        3) Have enough passive income to attract large investors for a sale with or without the site building machine. Imagine if we had $20k passive a month without auctions. Could we get a 20x multiple using a broker or other means on the entire library? Would including the site building machine increase this multiple? By how much? We are setting up the accounting to prepare (i.e. cost tracking for due diligence) for this now. By the middle of next year, we should be ready for this if we hit projections.

        Originally Posted by markowe View Post

        I keep mulling over this - I have a site that would increase revenue by 30-50% if I did this, but I am just a bit wary of it, despite what you say above. I guess the problem might be if the increase in CTR leads to a decrease in the conversion rate, i.e. too many idle clickers - that could be a problem. So am still kind of in two minds about this, even though I am doing it on some sites.
        Be careful and don't take short cuts to increase CTR. It's better to focus on new sites or expanding your current winners. The revenue will come, just be patient. There is nothing worse than getting slapped from Google because you are trying to trick users.
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        • Profile picture of the author markowe
          Originally Posted by TryBPO View Post

          Be careful and don't take short cuts to increase CTR. It's better to focus on new sites or expanding your current winners. The revenue will come, just be patient. There is nothing worse than getting slapped from Google because you are trying to trick users.
          My thought exactly. Only, I thought that you WERE using those "aggressive" layouts with the Adsense directly under the H1 (and not getting into trouble for it)? But yes, I will probably stick with quality and build the quantity - last thing I want is to jeopardise my Adsense account.

          All the best with your goals - you had a plan and have stuck to it. That's more than MOST people coming into this business do!
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        • Profile picture of the author fekfek
          Originally Posted by TryBPO View Post

          Our 3 primary goals:

          1) Make enough passive income that we can retire on a beach somewhere or at least afford to take jobs doing something cool that pays peanuts. We are probably 1-2 years from this goal.

          2) Make the site building machine self perpetuating while using site sales only for quick capital in new ventures or that dream holiday of traveling India, South America and Eastern Europe. We have almost achieved this and should have it by the end of the year, if we hit projections.

          3) Have enough passive income to attract large investors for a sale with or without the site building machine. Imagine if we had $20k passive a month without auctions. Could we get a 20x multiple using a broker or other means on the entire library? Would including the site building machine increase this multiple? By how much? We are setting up the accounting to prepare (i.e. cost tracking for due diligence) for this now. By the middle of next year, we should be ready for this if we hit projections.
          I am pretty sure that you will be able to retire on a beach somewhere and I beleive it will be closer than 2 years.

          Actually what I'd like to ask is - based on your assumptions and researches- to what extent is it possible to grow with a business of microniche sites?

          10,000 sites? 50,000 sites? 100,000 sites? 500,000 sites?
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          • Profile picture of the author TryBPO
            Originally Posted by fekfek View Post

            I am pretty sure that you will be able to retire on a beach somewhere and I beleive it will be closer than 2 years.

            Actually what I'd like to ask is - based on your assumptions and researches- to what extent is it possible to grow with a business of microniche sites?

            10,000 sites? 50,000 sites? 100,000 sites? 500,000 sites?
            10k sites would be huge. If we average our normal return per site per month that would be over $100k per month! I don't think I would need much more than to be happy, lol.

            Now, "could" more be done? Sure, I imagine there is theoretically no ceiling at this point. You would have to put better controls in place to automate and track things with so many sites (like a CRM), but I do not see why you would reach an upper limit. There are so many niches out there (and new ones being introduced every week) so keywords wouldn't be an issue.

            All that said, there might be some technical limitation we are unaware of at this stage preventing us from breaking your milestones. Since we only have around 700 sites, it's tough for me to say with absolutely certainty that there is no limit. Shameless plug here, but I encourage you to watch the continuing experiment over at AdSenseFlippers.com. If we encounter any issues, I'm sure we will share.
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  • Profile picture of the author fekfek
    TryBPO, thank you for letting us know your great business.

    I'd like to ask your goals if you don't mind. For example, when are you going to stop creating new sites? when you reach 100,000 microniche sites? or even more maybe
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    • Profile picture of the author TryBPO
      Originally Posted by fekfek View Post

      TryBPO, thank you for letting us know your great business.

      I'd like to ask your goals if you don't mind. For example, when are you going to stop creating new sites? when you reach 100,000 microniche sites? or even more maybe
      Why would we stop? :confused:
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      • Profile picture of the author fekfek
        Originally Posted by TryBPO View Post

        Why would we stop? :confused:
        I didn't say stop. I just wondered what is your goal.
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  • Profile picture of the author TryBPO
    Hey Mark,

    While we do use ads right under the H1, it's not misleading in any way which, I think, is the idea my partner Joe was trying to convey.

    Nothing like "Cheap pool covers, click below!" type titles. Or lining images up that match the exact ads on the site, making the reader think the ads are content or that they're buying the exact thing in the image from you directly...that kind of thing.
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    • Profile picture of the author Shaon Sha
      Hello Justin,

      Finally I decided to move to wordpress....
      would like to know do you make "posts" or "pages" for you website pages?

      I guess you make posts and hide the dates using a plug in, but I have seen "Pages" on right column in your sites

      Thanks
      Shaon
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      • Profile picture of the author TryBPO
        Originally Posted by Shaon Sha View Post

        Hello Justin,

        Finally I decided to move to wordpress....
        would like to know do you make "posts" or "pages" for you website pages?

        I guess you make posts and hide the dates using a plug in, but I have seen "Pages" on right column in your sites

        Thanks
        Shaon
        Hey Shaon!

        It's really just personal preference, but we create a Post for the Primary article and make the Secondary articles pages. There are other successful guys and girls that make all of their content Posts, though...it was just easier this way with our original theme and we stuck with it.

        When determining which secondary phrases to target, we perform new keyword research for each site we've purchased and get a list of anywhere from 10 - 100 additional keywords that are related and fit our criteria. When then select those that we think are a good fit and go with those keywords, but you could really choose any.

        In the past we've targeted some higher volume secondary keywords (1K - 5K exact match searches), but I'm not sure that's the best strategy. It might be better to go after the REALLY long tail stuff (150 - 500 exact match searches, 4 or more words long) so that you have a good chance to rank for that exact phrase.
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  • Profile picture of the author TryBPO
    Originally Posted by prawnballs View Post

    I've been using images from Amazon and linking them through an affiliate link to the item. But I wonder if anyone has experience with whether this harms potential Adsense revenue on the same site, or whether long term things are likely to balance out?

    I would expect that people might gravitate towards the images, especially if they are high on the page and immediately visible upon landing. So just pondering whether these exits points are going to be detrimental.
    Our corp is in California and right as we got to testing Amazon they dropped their affiliate program for the state. (DOH!)

    I've always stated I think you should probably have AdSense OR Amazon affiliate links...not because it's so bad to blend but because one or the other is going to provide a higher RPM and, whichever that is, you should go with that ONLY.

    I'm not so sure I'm right there, though. I've been looking at some authority sites as a test and there are situations where it's better for the USER to offer products for sale via affiliate links AND throw some AdSense on the pages that are mostly content based. If you're thinking from the user perspective and about what they're looking for, it might be better for them.

    I'll also mention the fact that we've had plenty of emails regarding things like, "I really like the white ___ you have on the site...can I buy that?"... That tells me a product offer was what they were really looking for there, right?
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    • Profile picture of the author Shaon Sha
      Thanks a lot Justin..
      How do you add Google analytics code to your wordpress sites? do you use any particular plug in?

      Thanks
      Shaon
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  • Profile picture of the author TryBPO
    Shaon,

    We add Analytics manually to the theme after we've created the profile. You can take a look at all of the plugins we use here:
    The Technology Behind Our Niche Sites | AdSense Flippers

    Of particular interest might be the Date Exclusion and the ManageWP plugins...those seem to be plugins not everyone uses.
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    • Profile picture of the author Shaon Sha
      Originally Posted by TryBPO View Post

      Shaon,

      We add Analytics manually to the theme after we've created the profile. You can take a look at all of the plugins we use here:
      The Technology Behind Our Niche Sites | AdSense Flippers

      Of particular interest might be the Date Exclusion and the ManageWP plugins...those seem to be plugins not everyone uses.
      Thanks a lot, I have gone through this page when you posted... I really dont miss your posts.. I have fixed the analytics stuff..

      one more query on this, sorry if this out of topic to this thread..
      How do I make nofollowm no index tags to pages like privacy policy, contact form, disclaimer etc? I have all in seo and google xml sitemap generator, is there anyway we can do through them or manually?

      Thanks
      Shaon
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  • Profile picture of the author abhibh
    Just went through the whole thread again and I must say it has been a good journey for you guys. Just a quick question do you build adsense sites clients too ?
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    • Profile picture of the author TryBPO
      Originally Posted by abhibh View Post

      Just went through the whole thread again and I must say it has been a good journey for you guys. Just a quick question do you build adsense sites clients too ?
      Hey there...thanks! It's been quite an experience. When we first got into the "IM community" my initial impression was that it was a bunch of people trying to sell another group of people some recycled crap to make money. There is some of that, of course, but we've met some pretty amazing entrepreneurs, creatives, etc. along the way...pretty cool.

      We get asked if we sell sites directly quite a bit and the standard answer is no. We know we're probably leaving quite a bit of money on the table, but our auctions tend to get pretty high multiples as-is. Even though there's some auction costs that come with listing on Flippa, the additional exposure we get for AdSenseFlippers on Flippa is phenomenal and selling private we'd lose that exposure.

      That being said, we are experimenting with one guy we particularly liked and wanted to work with...but I don't think we'll be doing that on a very large scale. The other issue is that we want to KEEP a good portion of our sites for the passive income! We're (mostly) only selling sites so that we can continue to ramp up production...it allows us to expand without coming out of pocket...we're just reinvesting profits.

      We are open to building "teams" of people with our outsourcing company that can create sites similarly and on a regular basis, but there's a minimum number of agents and the cost is significant...probably outside the scope of individual part-time IMers.

      With our hesitancy to sell knowing that we can do better WITHOUT selling in many cases, it does bring to question those who are selling...why do they not have the same issues with it that we do, you know?
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  • Profile picture of the author Scott Kennedy
    So you went from around $150 per month to just over 10k according to your site in less than 8 months. Great work dude!
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    • Profile picture of the author TryBPO
      Originally Posted by Scott Kennedy View Post

      So you went from around $150 per month to just over 10k according to your site in less than 8 months. Great work dude!
      Thanks, man!

      To be fair, we probably SPENT 8K on the project in July...around 5K or so on niche site creation and another 3K on alternate projects we're working on. Also, only around 3.3K of that was from passive, AdSense income in July...the rest was from selling websites.

      All-in, we're probably in for right around 30K so far in costs...ugh! We've been reinvesting any additional $$ into creating more sites, so we haven't realized much of the revenue we've received so far. Still...I like where it's going! We're working hard to catch the likes of Spencer from NichePursuits and Pat Flynn, lol.
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  • Profile picture of the author Deltia
    Hi guys,

    I have a couple of questions about the prosense theme you use.
    Firstly, do you have a download link to where I can get it as I have looked and downloaded one but it seems to only give me a blank white page with a title and no menus or anything to change any settings.

    Secondly, does the theme come with an easy built in system to add your adsense blocks or do you have to add them manually to your posts/pages?

    Thanks!
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    • Profile picture of the author TryBPO
      You can try here:

      ProSense: An Adsense Ready SEO Wordpress Theme

      I warn you though the theme is no longer being supported so there are compatibly issues.

      Everything needs to be added manually. For the less technically inclined we suggest CTR Theme. Extremely easy to use.

      Originally Posted by Deltia View Post

      Hi guys,

      I have a couple of questions about the prosense theme you use.
      Firstly, do you have a download link to where I can get it as I have looked and downloaded one but it seems to only give me a blank white page with a title and no menus or anything to change any settings.

      Secondly, does the theme come with an easy built in system to add your adsense blocks or do you have to add them manually to your posts/pages?

      Thanks!
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  • Profile picture of the author Izzy9
    Wow, I have always thought about this kind of scaling but I am still doing the groundwork. I'll keep going back to this thread. Good luck!
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  • Profile picture of the author eezymoney
    Great information here - I have also been worried about building many mini niche type sites and then having them wiped away overnight. But, you have put my mind at ease, as long as the site provides some sort of extra information to the user and isn't totally crap or copied etc then google shouldn't have any reason to nuke them!

    Will be following your progress.
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    • Profile picture of the author TryBPO
      Originally Posted by eezymoney View Post

      Great information here - I have also been worried about building many mini niche type sites and then having them wiped away overnight. But, you have put my mind at ease, as long as the site provides some sort of extra information to the user and isn't totally crap or copied etc then google shouldn't have any reason to nuke them!

      Will be following your progress.
      Full disclosure here: We have seen a drop in a number of sites recently. Be sure to check out our latest income report for details:

      Income Report - September 2011

      That said, I still think this is a viable model in scale and the issues we've had recently can be overcome through better back linking and a smaller footprint. Still we want to be honest and upfront about the risks before anyone attempts this themselves.
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      • Profile picture of the author 4morereferrals
        First off - hat tip to you gents. Pretty impressive "effort" being tossed at this model. I say it takes a lot of faith and cajones to toss this kind of effort and monetary investment in this endeavor. Impressive.

        Im trying to find out if youre both BAT SH!T crazy or freaking brilliant! [ Im sure you guys wonder the same at times too - hehehehe ]


        Couple questions ....

        So is the overall model to more about FLIPPING than adsense passive income?

        Sites Created: 86 (168 last month)
        AdSense Earnings: $3,695.68 ($4,275.23 last month)
        Flippa Sales: $19,445.00 ($6,510 last month)
        Private Sales: $2,762.60 ($3,600 last month)
        • Domains: $50.00
        • Sites: $2,712.60
        Affiliate Sales: $108.51 ($50.00 last month)
        Total: $26,011.79 ($14,435.23 last month)
        The reason I ask is - without the FLIPPA and site sales - this model is red ink central - at least my initial foray into adsense has been.

        I see the TOTAL revenues - and they look pretty stellar - but zero'ing in on the Adsense income only - raised my eyebrow a bit.

        168 sites last month

        Adsense Income last month - $4,275

        168 x $9 domains with privacy [ minimum ] - $1,512

        168 x 5 articles [ min ] x $3.5 [ min ] = $2,940

        Total Costs - $4,452.00 lost $150 or so bucks - not the end of the world - when viewed on that snapshot.

        Now ... Here's where I think things get interesting for this model. Not for the faint of heart investor ...

        If I'm not mistaken - this info graphic http://adsenseflippers.com/wp-conten...-September.jpg indicates [ if Im not mistaken - that you guys have built a total of 890 websites since late 2010. 890 ... wow!

        After 890 sites Adsense passive revenues with micro niche adsense sites is producing < $5k monthly

        890 x $9 domain fee = $8,000

        890 x 5 articles x $3.5 per article = $15,575

        Im sure there are other setup hosting and time trouble and treasure expenses not calculated in here but those are the main ones - domains and content.


        Looking at the math of the ROI for the invest [ sans FLIPPA sales ] seems OK - if youve got the intestinal fortitude - cant image too many of the folks playing here on the forum here do - me included. > $45k [ up front ] I estimate for the HOPE that it will yield a $5k a month income stream.

        So was selling some winners for large multiples part of the plan all along to fund the build out of the rest of the sites or ... did it come out of necessity [ Sbivenkleister bro ... we ve jut dumped another 10k in site builds and adsense rev's just took a hit - perhaps we use some other funding sources than out of pocket? ]

        What determines when a site goes up for sale?

        - what google serps do they need to have?
        - what adsense revenues do they need to have [ daily/monthly ]?
        - how much content - as a minimum do you put on?


        What kind of multiples are you accepting as a min for sale/reserve?

        Thanks for sharing all your data. Appreciate any further clarifications you care to share.

        Thanks
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        • Profile picture of the author TryBPO
          Hey There!

          Great "meat and potatoes" questions and points...let me try to address them specifically:

          Originally Posted by 4morereferrals View Post

          First off - hat tip to you gents. Pretty impressive "effort" being tossed at this model. I say it takes a lot of faith and cajones to toss this kind of effort and monetary investment in this endeavor. Impressive.

          Im trying to find out if youre both BAT SH!T crazy or freaking brilliant! [ Im sure you guys wonder the same at times too - hehehehe ]
          Thanks! We're definitely not sure either...

          Originally Posted by 4morereferrals View Post

          So is the overall model to more about FLIPPING than adsense passive income?

          The reason I ask is - without the FLIPPA and site sales - this model is red ink central - at least my initial foray into adsense has been.
          Great question...both, I think? Hence: AdSenseFlippers :-) Originally, we were at around 10 sites/week. I think if we would have maintained that level since December we would have seen profitability and could have SLOWLY started to scale up growth once the process was profitable on its own. The problem with that is it would have simply taken too long to build up a large enough amount of sites to make it interesting. Our thought was that we could sell off some sites, realize their earning potential up-front to improve cash-flow, and reinvest that into the business, doubling down on our investment.

          Originally Posted by 4morereferrals View Post

          I see the TOTAL revenues - and they look pretty stellar - but zero'ing in on the Adsense income only - raised my eyebrow a bit.

          168 sites last month

          Adsense Income last month - $4,275

          168 x $9 domains with privacy [ minimum ] - $1,512

          168 x 5 articles [ min ] x $3.5 [ min ] = $2,940

          Total Costs - $4,452.00 lost $150 or so bucks - not the end of the world - when viewed on that snapshot.
          At one point we were spending around $40 per site...but that later went up to around $50 per site. (Our domains are around $7 with free privacy with GoDaddy and their domain club discounts) Just to estimate, let's say around $8,000-$8,500 spent.

          Originally Posted by 4morereferrals View Post

          Now ... Here's where I think things get interesting for this model. Not for the faint of heart investor ...

          If I'm not mistaken - this info graphic http://adsenseflippers.com/wp-conten...-September.jpg indicates [ if Im not mistaken - that you guys have built a total of 890 websites since late 2010. 890 ... wow!

          After 890 sites Adsense passive revenues with micro niche adsense sites is producing < $5k monthly

          890 x $9 domain fee = $8,000

          890 x 5 articles x $3.5 per article = $15,575

          Im sure there are other setup hosting and time trouble and treasure expenses not calculated in here but those are the main ones - domains and content.
          Again, I'd say taking a spend of $45 per site is about right...around 40K spent on the project. To be clear, I think we've made around 22K via AdSense and around 60-65K on everything else...mostly from site sales...

          Originally Posted by 4morereferrals View Post

          Looking at the math of the ROI for the invest [ sans FLIPPA sales ] seems OK - if youve got the intestinal fortitude - cant image too many of the folks playing here on the forum here do - me included. > $45k [ up front ] I estimate for the HOPE that it will yield a $5k a month income stream.

          So was selling some winners for large multiples part of the plan all along to fund the build out of the rest of the sites or ... did it come out of necessity [ Sbivenkleister bro ... we ve jut dumped another 10k in site builds and adsense rev's just took a hit - perhaps we use some other funding sources than out of pocket? ]
          It is a pretty heavy investment, yes...but required for decent potential gains, I think. Remember, we're not dumping nest eggs into this project...our primary "job" is our outsourcing company. I think Joe mentioned in a recent interview that we came to that conclusion along the way, but it was my intention all along to sell sites and bankroll growth. We had a bit of a disagreement along the way where I said we should take more of our own investment and put it into the sites without selling so many off, but we came to the agreement that we'd fund it through sales instead.

          Originally Posted by 4morereferrals View Post

          What determines when a site goes up for sale?

          - what google serps do they need to have?
          - what adsense revenues do they need to have [ daily/monthly ]?
          - how much content - as a minimum do you put on?
          I don't know if our strategy was best, actually, but I can tell you what we've done at least. We would find "batches" of sites that, when combined, looked to be relatively stable over the last few months. We would try to include a few that were well ranked (top 5) and a few that were not (bottom of first page or second page) so that there was growth opportunity for the buyer. We would find these batches in each particular month (Starting with Dec and moving our way forward). When we ran out of good batches, we would lump the rest of those sites together and have a fire sale for the "rest" of the sites. (You'll notice from our auctions these are the batches that have more than 10 sites with heavily varied rankings) This strategy wasn't always possible, due to limitations as to where the sites ACTUALLY were, but was the general process we followed.

          Instead of adding content a few months before the sale (to beef up revenue for the sites) we offer content as bonuses for the auction hitting certain thresholds. We figured it was a good way to over-deliver for the buyers as well and give them a good start towards improving revenue on the sites. I'm not entirely sure that was the best strategy...it might be better to add content a few months before selling to maximize value. An argument could be made as to why we just don't build all the sites out right now. (or at least those we thought we could get the best return from) It's a fair question...maybe we should? We're considering bringing on a superstar conversion expert, giving him/her at small team of agents and doing exactly that...maybe paid on a performance-based model. We're awfully busy, though.

          To be perfectly, brutally honest...Joe and I have been successful at task-based management, but we're moving into an area (both here and with our TryBPO business) where we need to expand our model upwards and it's sort-of new territory for us. I'm sure we'll struggle through it and get it down eventually.

          Originally Posted by 4morereferrals View Post

          What kind of multiples are you accepting as a min for sale/reserve?

          Thanks for sharing all your data. Appreciate any further clarifications you care to share.

          Thanks
          All of our auctions start at $1.00 with No Reserve. We do think that's the fairest way to determine the price and it gives EVERYONE an opportunity, but it's strategic as well...we know it helps us get maximum value on the auctions. We continued increasing the BIN offer and it seemed to max out around 25X. We've received around 20X on average for our auctions.

          I'm rehashing a bit from the information on our website...hope it's helpful!
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          • Profile picture of the author TryBPO
            Another point I think we don't always make clear but SHOULD is this:

            Just because we've had some success with this strategy doesn't mean it will necessarily work for you.

            There could be any number of reasons as to why it would work for us and not for you. (Our access/experience in working with low-cost labor, background in seo, little tweaks here and there, luck, etc.) I think there's PLENTY to learn from what we've done (things that worked AND the things that failed!) and that's why we've decided to share it all.

            We may find continued success...or this may crash down on our heads. (Hoping for the former, not the latter, of course) Either way, we plan to continue documenting our decisions and strategies in the hope that they're helpful. We've had quite a bit of traffic and mentions recently, but want to make it clear that there are no guarantees here...we would suggest taking the bits you like, discarding those you don't, and coming up with your own strategy and process that's effective.
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  • Profile picture of the author kaka1404
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    • Profile picture of the author markowe
      Originally Posted by kaka1404 View Post

      Wow, an old thread but I would like to see updated results as well.
      OP posted the link to their blog with all their latest results: Income Report - September 2011 | AdSense Flippers

      Looks like the latest Panda iteration/s are affecting a great many of us...
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      Who says you can't earn money as an eBay affiliate any more? My stats say otherwise

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  • Profile picture of the author Daniel Wilson
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    • Profile picture of the author markowe
      Originally Posted by Daniel Wilson View Post

      Have you considered waiting for website to pay off its expenses and then selling it through flippa?
      You haven't read the whole thread, methinks
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  • Profile picture of the author chrome
    In the game of mass niche sites, quality & automation are the key. I know those two words typically go together, but with the right tools it can certainly be done. I've been doing it successfully for 7 years.

    You need to be able to build hundreds of sites per day and I prefer them to be in blocks of 5, no more than 10 on a unique IP.

    You also need to auto generate your content in a drip fashion to look natural.

    You can certainly make a healthy 5 figures monthly with this method.
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    • Profile picture of the author TryBPO
      For those of you looking for an update to this thread, I encourage you to check our site where we post regular monthly income reports. October was down a bit since September, mostly due to decreased site sales and panda. Still we are keeping the door open and letting you know both our successes and failures.

      AdSenseFlippers.com
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  • Profile picture of the author TryBPO
    Hey, just wanted to give a quick update as to how we're doing with our "scaling the niche sites" project.

    We've created over 2,000 niche sites and have brought in over $300,000 in the last 18 months. WOW! I just went back through and read this entire thread...it's amazing how far we took this in less than two years.

    Unfortunately, the latest EMD Update hit us pretty hard. (More about that here) It massively hurt our traffic and earnings on our sites...much more than Panda/Penguin did, unfortunately.

    We're expecting to take a hit to our revenue in the next few months with the damage done to our sites. Sites that don't earn don't tend to sell very well on Flippa. We'll be spending the next few months regrouping and "leveling up" our process on niche site creation. Ultimately, we'd like to answer the question as to whether we can use the same process to build out sites with massive value to the end user as well. Time will tell!

    Either way, we've had a fantastic run with niche sites to date and we're excited about where we're headed from here. Plenty of people told us when we started that "niche sites were dead", "AdSense is horrible", etc. We listened, but didn't let it affect our goals or the work we put into achieving them.

    Once we've made adjustments to our process and are building out our new sites I'll be back for another update to let you know how it's coming along. Thank you so much for the support over the years...it's been phenomenal!
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  • Profile picture of the author elperuanito
    Justin, how are you guys doing? Managed to bring back any of your sites? I basically started my IM journey because of you guys (though now leaning towards authority sites) and people like Pat Flynn. Unfortunately my sites were hit by the EMD update as well, just as I was starting to earn a bit of money through Adsense. Won't be giving up though, seeing the first couple of $ coming in was a great feeling!
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    • Profile picture of the author TryBPO
      Originally Posted by elperuanito View Post

      Justin, how are you guys doing? Managed to bring back any of your sites? I basically started my IM journey because of you guys (though now leaning towards authority sites) and people like Pat Flynn. Unfortunately my sites were hit by the EMD update as well, just as I was starting to earn a bit of money through Adsense. Won't be giving up though, seeing the first couple of $ coming in was a great feeling!
      Glad to hear we helped get you started...sorry to hear some of your sites took a hit with the last update!

      Joe and I have both been off the grid for the last couple of weeks. We were in Bangkok, Thailand to give a presentation to a group of our peers and spent a week before and a week after relaxing and recharging the batteries, mostly.

      We're both back now and ready to get to work. We have 3 main areas of focus through the end of the year.

      1. New brand/content for the outsourcing side of our business
      2. Tweak our niche site creation process to be more in-line with what Google's looking for
      3. Move up the value chain in creating much larger, higher-earning sites and fumbling our way through the process

      I'm literally 2 hours in and catching up on email. (I got an email regarding this reply) All three of these things aren't easily whipped together, unfortunately...it's going to take some time to flesh them out. Will have more about it when we're further along. :-)
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      • Profile picture of the author marco005
        Hi,

        One thing I not so understand with this micro niche site adsense business model is this;


        How can a niche site with max. 5 pages with a search volume from 1000 exact (only the main page) makes 50 or 100$ in month with adsense?????

        When your main page has 1000 search volume and the other 4 pages each page lets say 300 search volume that is =2200 search volume.

        When all your sites rank on spot 3-5 in google first page, than you get lets say 8% traffic from this 2200 search volume= 176 visitors in month.

        When google pays you $0,50 per click you will get;

        by 5% ctr= 8x0,50= 4$ in month income!!!
        by 10% ctr= 16x0,50= 8$ in month adsense income!!!

        When you can rank 100 such micro niche sites in google spot 3-5, you will make 400-800$ adsense income in a month.

        Not 50-100$ in a month for one micro niche site with 5 pages.

        How you make that 50-100$ in month with one micro niche site???
        Only with adsense or only with clickbank products (without list)

        Or does find keywords who has 1000 search volume for each page =5 pages with x1000 search volume?????

        Or how you make that-can you explain me that a little bit?

        best wishes
        marco005
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        • Profile picture of the author nik0
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          Originally Posted by marco005 View Post

          Hi,

          One thing I not so understand with this micro niche site adsense business model is this;


          How can a niche site with max. 5 pages with a search volume from 1000 exact (only the main page) makes 50 or 100$ in month with adsense?????

          When your main page has 1000 search volume and the other 4 pages each page lets say 300 search volume that is =2200 search volume.

          When all your sites rank on spot 3-5 in google first page, than you get lets say 8% traffic from this 2200 search volume= 176 visitors in month.

          When google pays you $0,50 per click you will get;

          by 5% ctr= 8x0,50= 4$ in month income!!!
          by 10% ctr= 16x0,50= 8$ in month adsense income!!!

          When you can rank 100 such micro niche sites in google spot 3-5, you will make 400-800$ adsense income in a month.

          Not 50-100$ in a month for one micro niche site with 5 pages.

          How you make that 50-100$ in month with one micro niche site???
          Only with adsense or only with clickbank products (without list)

          Or does find keywords who has 1000 search volume for each page =5 pages with x1000 search volume?????

          Or how you make that-can you explain me that a little bit?

          best wishes
          marco005
          They never said they make $50-100/month per site, in fact they have stated that they make on average $6/month per site or anywhere close to that. The flippa sales value does make it around $100 as they often get 20*monthly for their sites. With a cost price of $30-50 per site that's a good profit.
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  • Profile picture of the author TryBPO
    Hey Marco,

    nik0 nailed the answer above.

    The only thing I'd add is that you're trying to come up with hard #'s on keyword search volume that is anything but. Sites we thought would kill it on the first page don't and sites we didn't have great expectations for end up doing quite well with some random secondary or long tail keyword.
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  • Profile picture of the author marco005
    Hi,

    @TryBPO, thanks for your clearing answer. But nada nada, there are enough marketers who says that micro niche sites makes 50-100$ with adsense,enough there who telling such stories.

    I think it is real that such a micro site makes either 20-30$ with adsense (the most) some perhaps little bit more, but micro sites who makes 3-5$ a day with adsense are not the norm (?), this are heavy keywords who are not easy to rank, there you must spend not so little money for an good seo agent.

    PS: What is your experience, from 50 different micro niche sites howe much of them will be rank on spo #3-5 on googles first page- 20% or 30%?? And the rest will be complett fail??

    best wishes
    marco005
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    • Profile picture of the author TryBPO
      Hey Marco,

      I can't speak for those who are reporting $50-$100/month per niche site other than to say that this has not been the case for us.

      Honestly, if you're looking for someone to convince you to get started with niche sites, you won't get that from us. We're not selling a course or anything...we don't have a horse in that race. Additionally...just because WE have a certain experience or earnings threshold that we're comfortable with, who's to say that it will be a good fit for you? We don't even know if you'll have similar results. (better OR worse than us)

      I think you're over-analyzing as part of the "resistance"...that thing inside of you that keeps you from taking action as you convince yourself not to do it because of this, that, etc.

      It's been quite a while, but when we looked at it we saw that 70ish% of our income was coming from 30ish% of our sites. We consider a site a "loser" if it's not making enough to pay for its domain renewal the next year. Don't quote me...but I think that's around half of the sites we build. Keep in mind we've built quite a few sites as part of a large scale operation...if we were just starting off again we'd probably reign in the niche selection to have a higher % of successful sites.

      Hope that helps, for what it's worth...
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  • Profile picture of the author elperuanito
    Justin, are you guys still building? One thing I am wondering about while doing KW research now... if the EMD is now no longer as significant and you can't over optimise the on-page how do you decide if the keyword is worth going after? Have you changed your page 1 analysis strategy?
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    • Profile picture of the author TryBPO
      We're still building out sites, but only at about 25-30% of what we were doing before. We cut out outsourced content and are doing it all in-house.

      KW research is still fine as is (we believe) EMD's. (Even though it was called the EMD update, we're confident there were factors other than having an EMD that were penalized) We've toned down our on-site SEO quite a bit to match the sites of ours that were NOT hit and to make them stand out less.

      Check our September 2012 income report to see the details about the on-site changes we made in-depth.
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  • Profile picture of the author elperuanito
    Cool! Will do that now. Have any of your sites recovered ranking? Considering I followed your method, maybe mine will as well once I follow the onsite recommendations...
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  • Profile picture of the author TryBPO
    Hey elperuanito,

    We'd went through a site improvement process last year when we first took a hit. Ultimately, it was a bit of a wash...some sites came back, but others were still tanked. We broke even on our investment in time, $$, and resources in fixing the sites.

    I'm working on a process improvement myself right now for our top earning sites. I'm going to turn it into a case study and break everything down in a series of posts...more to come soon! I don't know how successful it will be...but will share openly/honestly to see if we can figure this out together.
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    • Profile picture of the author nik0
      Banned
      Originally Posted by TryBPO View Post

      Hey elperuanito,

      We'd went through a site improvement process last year when we first took a hit. Ultimately, it was a bit of a wash...some sites came back, but others were still tanked. We broke even on our investment in time, $$, and resources in fixing the sites.

      I'm working on a process improvement myself right now for our top earning sites. I'm going to turn it into a case study and break everything down in a series of posts...more to come soon! I don't know how successful it will be...but will share openly/honestly to see if we can figure this out together.
      That's great, looking forward to read about it.

      Hey something different, you just launced this Intellitheme "theme", I like the technique, I don't like the theme (although I haven't even seen it live but I'm just in love with a different theme that fits perfectly with my wishes). So how about a Intelliplugin? Is that an option, I just love the split testing stuff.
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  • Profile picture of the author elperuanito
    nik0, good call. I'd love a plugin. Not sure how that would work considering the plugin depends on the placement of ads within the theme?
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    • Profile picture of the author nik0
      Banned
      Originally Posted by elperuanito View Post

      nik0, good call. I'd love a plugin. Not sure how that would work considering the plugin depends on the placement of ads within the theme?
      I guess it would need some work yes but the market is probably large enough for such thing.
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  • Profile picture of the author TryBPO
    Hey nik0,

    We've definitely discussed a plugin...that's what we were looking at originally. Ultimately, there was a technical reason that we had to create the theme and not a plugin if I remember right.

    In future versions, we're planning to include a plug-and-play, "build your own preset" option...that's in the works.

    One thing I'm really looking forward to is this: We're collecting a TON of data on all of our sites and everyone that's downloaded and using the theme. We'll be able to improve future presets based on actual data from real users...cool, eh?
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  • Profile picture of the author elperuanito
    Justin - that's awesome. Will definitely pick this theme up at some point for my niche sites. They're dormant at the moment, still deciding whether to try a new batch of sites or just focus completely on authority sites (which is what I'm doing now).

    Are you finding good success with your new sites now, similar to your old batches? Or has it become a lot more difficult to rank?

    Also, it's good to see that you're still building. MikeFromMaine stopped and it seems the WSOtesters have as well (unless you've heard from them?). Don't know many other adsense builders that have blogged as extensively and are still sticking around!
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  • Profile picture of the author TryBPO
    We took a pretty big hit with the EMD Update, but we've seen "some" signs of things returning to normal and some of our later sites are cruising along nicely. Cutting down our on-site SEO will help I think and cause our sites to stand out less. Since we're doing less sites, I'd also like to target slightly less niched-down keyphrases...we were doing so many that sometimes our KW selection got a bit ridiculous, hehe.

    We've made slight adjustments and will continue to roll out through the end of the year and beyond. Next year we're planning a "Niche Site 2.0" process that, I think, will allow us to level up the process and target higher-end buyers for our sites. It's a bit more complicated and involved, though...
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  • Profile picture of the author elperuanito
    Awesome, I look forward to seeing your progress!

    I might try a new batch of sites with your theme and do things slightly differently. Might do a combination of EMD and branded domains, pick a couple of KWs and no weird long-tail EMDs as I was doing before. Will let you know how that goes...
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  • Profile picture of the author TryBPO
    We're planning to take the theme with us in 2013 when we create the leveled-up sites.

    I think we'll probably create some templates in Thesis first. (No reason to develop new presets until we've proven the model!) Once we get something up/running there we'll then go and create those presets in our theme.

    Here's an idea I think is pretty interesting: We'd like to test Ad Units Vs. Products.

    We might have one preset that rotates through and has a list of products that you can purchase. When someone clicks the product to buy we'll have a "Not Available" screen with email capture. The user can put in the images and estimated profit on those products and then, over time, can determine whether they'd make more money with actual products or with ads...I think that's a pretty cool idea.
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  • Profile picture of the author marco005
    Hi,

    Thanks to TryBPO. Oh yes the WF Forum toois full of these offer promises; "Niche site buidling you make 50-100$ month or make 100-3000$ month, enough such offers here.

    Yes to concentrate on take action is better than to overthink/analysis.

    Alltough;

    Listen,when 2 persons are in the same subniche lets say health;

    Both persons has same good quality niche theme,same age (new under 1 year)
    both has emd domain, same number of quality written articles with same length of words
    both has same organic search traffic (without socicl traffic).
    Then the adsense income for both must similiar ,why should there be a big difference?

    See on flippa when you choose these criterias to search for a niche, some sites who are similiar like my example above, has similiar (not complete the same) adsense income. This can be an indicator this is not science proof.
    For same niche sites the difference should be not so big.

    best wishes
    marco005
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    • Profile picture of the author nik0
      Banned
      Ah okay, bummer about the plugin.

      Just an idea, maybe it can help you guys, but this is what I am going to do, instead of focusing on micro niche I will focus on mini niche instead.

      Let's say my keyword is barbecue grills, then I plan to make like 3 categories:

      best barbecue grills
      barbecue grill reviews
      <BRAND> barbecue grills

      Then the posts inside those categories would all have their category name in the url like:

      - where to buy the best barbecue grills
      - best barbecue grills for sale
      - etc.

      That way you're creating a natural silo and high relevance. Instead of throwing up to generic 500 word articles I will aim for 800+ words with tons of detail so that you're really providing some value to the visitor (hard to do that with a kw like "pink digital camera's").

      Perhaps add some other articles like tips when buying a barbecue grill, what to look for blablabla.

      Normally product keywords are a bit tougher but it does open the doors to more ways of monetizing, you can make your site a price comparison one or just focus on Amazon in the summer and replace it with Adsense in the winter (I think that's a good way to handle seasonal products).

      Then throw up in total like 20-30 long articles and you create a real authority on that front. I found that Google really likes such sites so you can go a bit more wild on the link building. It probably won't start to rank out of it self.

      Cost break down:

      $10 domain
      $250 content
      $100-200 link building

      Estimated profit: $100-200/month, or in other words $2-4k sales value at Flippa.

      Ranking approach, don't target the category pages with the matching keywords, point it at the homepage and the juice will find it's way. We've been getting awesome results with this lately. This way you naturally focus muliple keywords on the homepage, lower chance of getting penalized, and your inner pages are also safe from penalization as you won't build a single link to those (okay maybe a few supporting links but that's it).

      Only use unique content in your tier 1 links and a few dozen high PR links to get things going, just with bookmarks and some article submissions you won't get there.

      In case you're not ready to setup your own network then you can contact me obvious :p , we'll work something out

      The only tough part about this is scaling up as you need good writers who really do some research. Finding 1-2 decent writers who are capable of that isn't too hard, but finding a dozen of such people might become pretty nasty. At least that's my point of struggle right now.
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      • Profile picture of the author marco005
        WOW!

        Thanks to nik0 for sharing that info very clearly!
        PS: Do you target for your posts (inner pages) keywords with 1000 search volume or higher or lesser??
        Which monetize way adsense or amazon??


        best wishes
        marco005
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        • Profile picture of the author nik0
          Banned
          Originally Posted by marco005 View Post

          WOW!

          Thanks to nik0 for sharing that info very clearly!
          PS: Do you target for your posts (inner pages) keywords with 1000 search volume or higher or lesser??
          Which monetize way adsense or amazon??


          best wishes
          marco005
          Not really, it sure won't hurt to pick titles that get's some searches though, but the main traffic should come from your main keywords and all extra is a bonus.

          If it's about products I would start out with Amazon, and it if converts poor then switch to Adsense. If you have a limited amount of categories I would make sure that the main category keywords have at least a few thousands searchers per month each.
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      • Profile picture of the author yukon
        Banned
        Originally Posted by nik0 View Post

        Ranking approach, don't target the category pages with the matching keywords, point it at the homepage and the juice will find it's way. We've been getting awesome results with this lately. This way you naturally focus muliple keywords on the homepage, lower chance of getting penalized, and your inner pages are also safe from penalization as you won't build a single link to those (okay maybe a few supporting links but that's it).

        No offense but that doesn't make any sense to me, If your worried about pages ever getting slapped.

        You can't change the Index page URL but you can change internal pages/URLs all day long. Sounds to me like your going about it backwards for trying to prevent a slapped page/URL.

        There's also nothing normal about only building links to an Index page.
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        • Profile picture of the author nik0
          Banned
          Originally Posted by yukon View Post

          No offense but that doesn't make any sense to me, If your worried about pages ever getting slapped.

          You can't change the Index page URL but you can change internal pages/URLs all day long. Sounds to me like your going about it backwards for trying to prevent a slapped page/URL.

          There's also nothing normal about only building links to an Index page.
          Whether it makes sense or not is irrelevant as we got exceptional results multiple times by taking this approach. Like I said, you create a natural anchor txt profile for the homepage instead of just focusing on 1 or 2 keywords for each page (see we already optimize each page for the matching keywords, so if we also focus on anchor txt links it's like double optimizing and Google can detect that real easy). Google will figure out which pages are most relevant for each keyword anyway and rank it accordingly.

          There is no need to change the index page when you do it right from the start and like I said, it's not the homepage that will start to rank for all those kw's, it will be the appropriate pages as Google is pretty smart about that.

          Almost every website out there has most links pointed at the homepage so it's completely natural and as I stated somewhere in the post it can't hurt to point a few links on some inner pages / posts to lift them a bit more when necessary.

          You know what's the thing, let's say a post or category page is optimized for: "best barbecue grills", then people automatically start to back link with that exact anchor and just throw in a few click here's and domainname / url as anchor to make it natural. Imo Google will still see that as manipulation and 100% of the same keyword anchor txt as the rest is irrelevant to the page so that just doesn't work well to vary it up and to add totally different keywords (although relevant keywords) hardly gives you a benefit to rank so that's why it's better to focus on the homepage (top of the pyramid) with different keywords so that it can flow better in the pyramid / silo style.

          We've been doing this recently but the results really speak for it self and are truelly exceptionally, many #1 rankings are the results of this with actually few links and quite some competition.
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          • Profile picture of the author yukon
            Banned
            Originally Posted by nik0 View Post

            Whether it makes sense or not is irrelevant as we got exceptional results multiple times by taking this approach. Like I said, you create a natural anchor txt profile for the homepage instead of just focusing on 1 or 2 keywords for each page (see we already optimize each page for the matching keywords, so if we also focus on anchor txt links it's like double optimizing and Google can detect that real easy). Google will figure out which pages are most relevant for each keyword anyway and rank it accordingly.

            There is no need to change the index page when you do it right from the start and like I said, it's not the homepage that will start to rank for all those kw's, it will be the appropriate pages as Google is pretty smart about that.

            Almost every website out there has most links pointed at the homepage so it's completely natural and as I stated somewhere in the post it can't hurt to point a few links on some inner pages / posts to lift them a bit more when necessary.

            You know what's the thing, let's say a post or category page is optimized for: "best barbecue grills", then people automatically start to back link with that exact anchor and just throw in a few click here's and domainname / url as anchor to make it natural. Imo Google will still see that as manipulation and 100% of the same keyword anchor txt as the rest is irrelevant to the page so that just doesn't work well to vary it up and to add totally different keywords (although relevant keywords) hardly gives you a benefit to rank so that's why it's better to focus on the homepage (top of the pyramid) with different keywords so that it can flow better in the pyramid / silo style.

            We've been doing this recently but the results really speak for it self and are truelly exceptionally, many #1 rankings are the results of this with actually few links and quite some competition.

            If it's working for you, go for it.

            I build my sites a little different, the concept is simple. I treat each category as a relevant individual mini site. I pump up the Category landing page with it's own sub-pages, then point links from the Category pages at the Index page.

            I've also been creating a few small internal link wheels, which have been getting me Google Sitelinks for multiple keywords. That's kinda fun because you can get 4-5 links in the SERPs per ranked page, plus the competition won't usually figure out the link wheel, unless they really know what they're doing. You should test that on a ranked page, it's extra free links in the SERPs.
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            • Profile picture of the author nik0
              Banned
              Originally Posted by yukon View Post

              If it's working for you, go for it.

              I build my sites a little different, the concept is simple. I treat each category as a relevant individual mini site. I pump up the Category landing page with it's own sub-pages, then point links from the Category pages at the Index page.

              I've also been creating a few small internal link wheels, which have been getting me Google Sitelinks for multiple keywords. That's kinda fun because you can get 4-5 links in the SERPs per ranked page, plus the competition won't usually figure out the link wheel, unless they really know what they're doing. You should test that on a ranked page, it's extra free links in the SERPs.
              Absolutely

              What do you exactly mean with pumping up the category page with sub pages? You make pages instead of posts is what you mean to say or? Or do you just add other supporting pages of content or something?
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  • Profile picture of the author TryBPO
    Hey nik0,

    We liked that strategy...it's similar to Spencer's from NichePursuits. In fact, we'd tried that out with two sites quite a while back. Unfortunately, it failed miserably for us. (To be fair...we'd purchased domains and I'm pretty sure those domains were tainted/penalized...we blogged about our failure here.)

    We'll be testing something similar to this with our sites moving forward.

    Additionally, we're planning at coming at niche sites from a completely different perspective in 2013. We're going to approach it with a user-centric approach... I think that's something we've missed in the past. (We're happy, advertisers are happy, Google AdSense is happy, etc...but the actual users that come across our sites? Meh...)
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    • Profile picture of the author nik0
      Banned
      Originally Posted by TryBPO View Post

      Hey nik0,

      We liked that strategy...it's similar to Spencer's from NichePursuits. In fact, we'd tried that out with two sites quite a while back. Unfortunately, it failed miserably for us. (To be fair...we'd purchased domains and I'm pretty sure those domains were tainted/penalized...we blogged about our failure here.)

      We'll be testing something similar to this with our sites moving forward.

      Additionally, we're planning at coming at niche sites from a completely different perspective in 2013. We're going to approach it with a user-centric approach... I think that's something we've missed in the past. (We're happy, advertisers are happy, Google AdSense is happy, etc...but the actual users that come across our sites? Meh...)
      Yeah I read about your authority site there indeed, however did you use long ass articles of 800-1000 words with real in depth information about the products/keywords or were it just the regular 500 word pieces that you also use for your micro sites?

      Also it's important to pass some good juice, a dozen or perhaps a few dozen BMR posts will probably not cut it as those posts stayed on the homepage for like 1-2 days.

      Also to make this a success I think your main keywords (root page and categories) should have at least like 15.000 exact searches/month.

      Another thing that I probably forgot to mention is that the bounce rate of the sites that we tried this on was insane low <5% as the homepage didn't really have content, only small snippets with the read more tag. That way the keyword density increases pretty much (as the kw was in each title) but in a natural way so perhaps Google knows how to recognize that as well without treating it like manipulating the stuff.
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      • Profile picture of the author nik0
        Banned
        Just reading that posts of yours again and you seem to take a decent approach there with site A and your results weren't that bad either, 2100 visitors in 30 days, if you passed on some more juice you might have hit #2 and hit the 100/day mark.

        You took a bit of a different homepage approach, instead of using read more tags for each post you uploaded an 800 word well researched article, well each to it's own of course, if it doesn't screw the bounce rate too much then why not.

        Crucial point: Conversions!

        Yeah I'm no star at that either but $4 in 30 days, damn.

        Either way, I think when you get 100 uniques a day you should make at least $100/month from that to make it worthwhile.
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        • Profile picture of the author TryBPO
          Hey nik0,

          Yes, approach was working well with Site A, but visitors weren't converting. Much like you, we only had snippets of content on that site, so the bounce rate was extremely low...most clicked through to the category pages or blog posts to get the information they were looking for.

          The content on both was 800-1,200 words and pretty quality...we had 3-4 star writers on TextBroker research the content and I edited it personally, added photos, etc.

          Even though neither worked out, I'm not convinced it was the process that was the problem. BMR posts, tainted domains, poor $$ niche selection, etc...thinking all of that had more to do with it.

          Originally Posted by nik0 View Post

          Just reading that posts of yours again and you seem to take a decent approach there with site A and your results weren't that bad either, 2100 visitors in 30 days, if you passed on some more juice you might have hit #2 and hit the 100/day mark.

          You took a bit of a different homepage approach, instead of using read more tags for each post you uploaded an 800 word well researched article, well each to it's own of course, if it doesn't screw the bounce rate too much then why not.

          Crucial point: Conversions!

          Yeah I'm no star at that either but $4 in 30 days, damn.

          Either way, I think when you get 100 uniques a day you should make at least $100/month from that to make it worthwhile.
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          • Profile picture of the author nik0
            Banned
            Originally Posted by TryBPO View Post

            Hey nik0,

            Yes, approach was working well with Site A, but visitors weren't converting. Much like you, we only had snippets of content on that site, so the bounce rate was extremely low...most clicked through to the category pages or blog posts to get the information they were looking for.

            The content on both was 800-1,200 words and pretty quality...we had 3-4 star writers on TextBroker research the content and I edited it personally, added photos, etc.

            Even though neither worked out, I'm not convinced it was the process that was the problem. BMR posts, tainted domains, poor $$ niche selection, etc...thinking all of that had more to do with it.
            Yeah some different skills come into play there, I have one somewhat of an authority site, well actually just a poor ugly site with 100 articles is what I mean to say (poor written as well but that's not what matters for the example). Thing is that with the few visitors it gets the CTR is only 0.25%, looks like close to what you're getting.

            The other site that I talked about above also converts very poor, till date it made a few dozen dollars, I think this also has to do with poor niche selection, so yeah quite some different skills come into play to be successful with this model.
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      • Profile picture of the author marco005
        Hi nik0,

        yes I have little budget no huge.
        little budget to build monthly 1-2 small micro niche sites for content writer andfor 1-2 fiverr backlink gigs.


        best wishes
        marco005
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  • Profile picture of the author marco005
    Hi,

    Thanks nik0!
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  • Profile picture of the author marco005
    Hi,

    Thats great 2100 visitors in 30 days, but is it not worth make a test to promote clickbank products who has a payout of 20-25$ per sale?? With targed good affiliate products you earnings will be grow up.

    best wishes
    marco005
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    • Profile picture of the author nik0
      Banned
      Originally Posted by marco005 View Post

      Hi,

      Thats great 2100 visitors in 30 days, but is it not worth make a test to promote clickbank products who has a payout of 20-25$ per sale?? With targed good affiliate products you earnings will be grow up.

      best wishes
      marco005
      It's just that Clickbank has almost nothing of value to offer so hard to find a product that you can stand behind without shaming yourself deeply.

      Yep that's Clickbank.

      I once browsed that site and came up with some 3d animation software, I thought well that looks legit, let's promote that. Few months later I had several comments from people saying that it was a ripoff of some shareware/freeware program. At that point I was 100% sure, Clickbank sucks.

      I would suggest to take a look at CommissionJunction instead.
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  • Profile picture of the author elperuanito
    yukon - do you have a more detailed post about how do you do your internal structure? Also, what's your backlink strategy?
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  • Profile picture of the author marco005
    Hi,

    Thanks nik0, also I should stay away from cb products, but does CJ has more serious products/vendors?? Or you can recommend me other similiar affili networks who has serious products and vendors?? Or only CJ?

    PS:Linkbuilding, with a very small budget or for free its hard. An authorithy page building like your structure with 5-10 categorys and 5-7 posts for each category (25 posts summary) , you must build backlinks for each of your posts (inner pages)?

    It is enough to build a little linkwheel with 5 web 2.0 properties each has 25 spun articles-each article link back to your money site inner page (post in category) , each web2.0 article blast out with IMT RSS Submitter and to 20 rss feeds?? Is that worth it is enough to get a good rank on google first page?

    Or is it better to buy 1 fiverr gig from dino stark (link first to an web2.0 propertie)?? Or is 1 big fiverr gig (from dino stark)

    or fiverr gigs from
    Dino_stark will build eminent backlink pyramid with 5000 profiles,most dofollow,include some edu gov,good seo for youtube by using xrumer senuke scrapebox for $5, only on fiverr.com?

    or from themesplice?

    or from By yesrams?

    But I have not the money to buy a fiverr gig for each inner page in your example of 25 inner pages (posts) you must buy 25x5$ fiverr gigs, that is way too much investment. Buy 1 or 2 fiverr gigs and link first to 1 web2.0 propertie and form then to your home page, are here 1-2 of these fiverr gigs enough to get a goodranking on google first page or on page two??


    best wishes
    marco005
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    • Profile picture of the author nik0
      Banned
      Originally Posted by marco005 View Post

      Hi,

      Thanks nik0, also I should stay away from cb products, but does CJ has more serious products/vendors?? Or you can recommend me other similiar affili networks who has serious products and vendors?? Or only CJ?

      PS:Linkbuilding, with a very small budget or for free its hard. An authorithy page building like your structure with 5-10 categorys and 5-7 posts for each category (25 posts summary) , you must build backlinks for each of your posts (inner pages)?

      It is enough to build a little linkwheel with 5 web 2.0 properties each has 25 spun articles-each article link back to your money site inner page (post in category) , each web2.0 article blast out with IMT RSS Submitter and to 20 rss feeds?? Is that worth it is enough to get a good rank on google first page?

      Or is it better to buy 1 fiverr gig from dino stark (link first to an web2.0 propertie)?? Or is 1 big fiverr gig (from dino stark)

      or fiverr gigs from
      Dino_stark will build eminent backlink pyramid with 5000 profiles,most dofollow,include some edu gov,good seo for youtube by using xrumer senuke scrapebox for $5, only on fiverr.com?

      or from themesplice?

      or from By yesrams?

      But I have not the money to buy a fiverr gig for each inner page in your example of 25 inner pages (posts) you must buy 25x5$ fiverr gigs, that is way too much investment. Buy 1 or 2 fiverr gigs and link first to 1 web2.0 propertie and form then to your home page, are here 1-2 of these fiverr gigs enough to get a goodranking on google first page or on page two??


      best wishes
      marco005
      We just focus on the homepage instead of link building each post. You can also focus on the category pages if you wish, then you only have 3-5 pages to link to.

      However without a budget you won't come far I'm afraid. If you want to make money you need to invest, so if you don't have money go get a job first and save money. If neither of that is an option then you better find a new hobby or be prepared to put a lot of manual work into it. E-mailing webmasters begging for links, trying to find other relevant sites to get a link from etc etc. as just with web2.0's and some tiered spam I don't think you'll get very far.
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  • Looks like you got yourself a self-styled micro empire growing there fellow. what have you been up to lately in developing this idea?
    It sounds like perpetual success is not too far.
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  • This really sound like an idea worth tackling, though maybe later on in my schedules. But how does an individual actually massive alot of these sites with just ONE single VA?
    Now that's masterminding on a level a step above the rest.
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    • Profile picture of the author nik0
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Creativistenterprise View Post

      This really sound like an idea worth tackling, though maybe later on in my schedules. But how does an individual actually massive alot of these sites with just ONE single VA?
      Now that's masterminding on a level a step above the rest.
      it seems you're mixing up posts from different users, the one above said he had a site that makes like $1k/month within a few months. He didn't mention anything about numbers of sites, while the Adsenseflippers crew do have 1000's of sites but they also have a little army of VA's/employees.
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  • Profile picture of the author MRamocsai
    Seems like the model has expanded quite well for you. Just goes to show that if you can publish and market you can make money. Good motivation for those new to making money and should remind them that if they want traffic they need to consistently write about topics that people are searching for.

    If you follow up a good chunk of targeted traffic with some SEO and other marketing tactics (even just the basics) then you will see traffic. It'll take a good amount of time and persistence, but it will work, and you're already doing it by writing on this forum. Once you start getting consistent traffic you need to find the best monetization method but remember that it doesn't have to bee AdSense.

    AdSense is quite good for making money off of content, I will say that. But look into Amazon's program for potential affiliate sales via products related to your topics (products that offer solutions in particular) as well any independent programs related to your niche (CPA and affiliate networks).

    You can't go wrong by taking notes from the Adsense Flippers website. I've browsed the site in the past and it does offer some solid advice for building websites/blogs and getting traffic. Thanks for the case study, once again
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  • Profile picture of the author DPM70
    I think it's funny how Yukon's posts get over-shadowed by the SEO providers recently. Yukon is part of brand "Intelligent SEO" - and what's more - it's free.
    Signature
    I don't build in order to have clients. I have clients in order to build. - Ayn Rand
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    • Profile picture of the author nik0
      Banned
      Originally Posted by DPM70 View Post

      I think it's funny how Yukon's posts get over-shadowed by the SEO providers recently. Yukon is part of brand "Intelligent SEO" - and what's more - it's free.
      Yeah well it's a method that works better then most things these days so I think it's only a good thing that multiple people shine a light on it, it's not like everyone is going to browse through Yukon's old posts.

      It's a good concept that needs to be shared, especially in these times.
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  • Profile picture of the author DPM70
    The thing is - it doesn't need to be shared. I've noted multiple occasions where Yukon has shared one of his self-tested gems and it has been up for sale by some unscrupulous black-hatter ******* the next day.

    It's a symptom of a well-received and highly trafficked site, I suppose. Like John Galt - maybe Yukon should withdraw his services from the world - And join us in the gulch.
    Signature
    I don't build in order to have clients. I have clients in order to build. - Ayn Rand
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    • Profile picture of the author nik0
      Banned
      Originally Posted by DPM70 View Post

      The thing is - it doesn't need to be shared. I've noted multiple occasions where Yukon has shared one of his self-tested gems and it has been up for sale by some unscrupulous black-hatter ******* the next day.

      It's a symptom of a well-received and highly trafficked site, I suppose. Like John Galt - maybe Yukon should withdraw his services from the world - And join us in the gulch.
      What a bullshit that it doesn't need to be shared.
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  • Profile picture of the author Becker13
    Banned
    basing your whole income Micro niche adsense sites....are the dumbest thing...in the whole world

    Work 2 years on micro niche sites...maybe....MAYBE....hit 200 a day...that has a very high chance of being smashed

    Work 2 years on real businesses fueled by SEO....More than likely hit 500-1000 a day...that will last for a lifetime


    =P
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    • Profile picture of the author Brendan Mace
      Originally Posted by Becker13 View Post

      basing your whole income Micro niche adsense sites....are the dumbest thing...in the whole world

      Work 2 years on micro niche sites...maybe....MAYBE....hit 200 a day...that has a very high chance of being smashed

      Work 2 years on real businesses fueled by SEO....More than likely hit 500-1000 a day...that will last for a lifetime


      =P
      Any particular reason that you're choosing to be a d-bag? Adsense Flippers are LEGIT!
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    • Profile picture of the author nik0
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Becker13 View Post

      basing your whole income Micro niche adsense sites....are the dumbest thing...in the whole world

      Work 2 years on micro niche sites...maybe....MAYBE....hit 200 a day...that has a very high chance of being smashed

      Work 2 years on real businesses fueled by SEO....More than likely hit 500-1000 a day...that will last for a lifetime


      =P
      You are missing the point completely.

      It was about creating a process that was damn easy to replicate on a massive scale, executed by VA's and selling the sites at Flippa for a good monthly that most people don't get, afaik there haven't been much moments where A.F reached $200/day, most months they made $4k/month directly from Adsense but either way that's not what this is about. It's about creating a robotic process that can be upscaled hugely without needing much skills. And as long as it brings in the money, why not!

      These days it has become a little harder to automate all of it, but still not impossible, and that's what the guys will be focusing on right now if they want to continue what they started.
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  • Profile picture of the author elperuanito
    The money is in selling the sites at 20x.
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  • Profile picture of the author uk099
    I agree the money is selling the sites if i can get sites to earn 100 dollars a month per month for 3 months then great.

    How does one justify 20x earnings on a 3 month old site or a 1 month site ?
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    • Profile picture of the author TryBPO
      Originally Posted by DPM70 View Post

      I think it's funny how Yukon's posts get over-shadowed by the SEO providers recently. Yukon is part of brand "Intelligent SEO" - and what's more - it's free.
      Yukon continues to provide great info about AdSense and niche sites when and where he can. He's pretty good at dispelling the myths that pop up over and over again here...I don't know how he has the patience for it, really.

      People will always take your free information and try to bottle it up, package it, and sell it to someone else. Frustrating...but there's no way around it, really.

      Originally Posted by Brendan Mace View Post

      Any particular reason that you're choosing to be a d-bag? Adsense Flippers are LEGIT!
      Thanks, Brendan! It's a valid marketing strategy to pick a fight with others to get some attention...although I think that strategy brings its own problems as well. It's usually helpful to look at what someone's selling (In Becker's case...an SEO package for the types of sites he's promoting) to better understand their bias. Take us, for example. We walk people through our exact process for creating sites, and then sell those same sites to those that don't have the time or interest in figuring it out themselves to get started.

      That being said, him and his partner have pieced together some good information and present it well, which is helpful...I've gotten some good information from them.

      Originally Posted by nik0 View Post

      You are missing the point completely.

      It was about creating a process that was damn easy to replicate on a massive scale, executed by VA's and selling the sites at Flippa for a good monthly that most people don't get, afaik there haven't been much moments where A.F reached $200/day, most months they made $4k/month directly from Adsense but either way that's not what this is about. It's about creating a robotic process that can be upscaled hugely without needing much skills. And as long as it brings in the money, why not!

      These days it has become a little harder to automate all of it, but still not impossible, and that's what the guys will be focusing on right now if they want to continue what they started.
      Thanks, nik0...I absolutely agree. In face, we gave a presentation on it in Bangkok last month called "Building Human Machines" and we published a podcast (today) talking about the difference between a business and just being a niche site builder.

      You're also spot-on about our focus. We're tweaking the engine or "machine" as we head into 2013.

      Originally Posted by elperuanito View Post

      The money is in selling the sites at 20x.
      We'd make money at 10x (which is what we initially planned on) and still be profitable...just not as much as we'd like.

      I'd argue that 18-25x IS what the market is at. The reason you have some that get 10x is because of all the shady sellers out there selling snake oil at 2-3x bringing the average down.

      We didn't pull 20x out of a hat. We were offering sites on Flippa at $1 with No Reserve and the bidding was going beyond that.

      Originally Posted by uk099 View Post

      I agree the money is selling the sites if i can get sites to earn 100 dollars a month per month for 3 months then great.

      How does one justify 20x earnings on a 3 month old site or a 1 month site ?
      The market should justify the price, right? My friends here in the Philippines look at me incredulously when I tell them a 1-hour massage can cost $100 in the US ($6 here in the Philippines for the equivalent).
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      Website Brokers - We can help you sell businesses making $500 to $50K per month.

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  • Profile picture of the author uk099
    Thank you for the response and also great podcast.

    It fortifies my idea niche sites are not a business on their own.
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    • Profile picture of the author TryBPO
      Originally Posted by uk099 View Post

      Thank you for the response and also great podcast.

      It fortifies my idea niche sites are not a business on their own.
      Someone in the comments (Shinu) on our blog brought up sites like ezinearticles, ehow, etc. being examples that don't meet the parameters mentioned in the podcast, but would probably still be qualified as a "business". It was a pretty good point...we were just trying to highlight that knocking out niche sites in your underwear at your Mother's house is not really "building a business" - Although it may lead to one someday! :-)
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      Website Brokers - We can help you sell businesses making $500 to $50K per month.

      Free Website Valuation - How much is your website really worth? Find out here, free.
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