*July 27th UPDATE* Week 22: The Great SEO Link Building Service Experiment of 2011

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Hello Warriors! Long time lurker here on the forums, and I've finally decided to do my part to increase everyone's rankings and earnings!

First off, let me be honest here. I dislike link building. I dislike it so much that I rarely do any.

I have multiple sites on various topics where I just write content and I enjoy it. I'd rather write content for hours than troll the internet to get other sites to link to me or wade through manual article submissions. I post links to my content to a handful of social networking sites and generally leave it at that. About 10-15% of my posts find their way onto the first page of Google for the keyword I target in the article.

However, I've noticed lately that it doesn't take much SEO juice to kick one of my contented targeted keywords up the rankings from page 5 to page 1.

Everyone has their opinion on which link building technique works best. Some people swear by article marketing, some swear by directory submissions, some live by forum profile links, some spam blog comments.

Everyone has their opinion, but no one seems to be presenting any hard facts to back up their opinion. I'm a facts kind of guy.

Which of these options is best? Can a link building service actually work to drive a site up the rankings for a fairly competitive keyword? Are article submissions better than optimized content farms? Are they better than profile link blasts?

I'm too nervous to try this on any of my current sites. I'm a white hat good content site builder. I've never had a site deindexed or deranked by Google in the 2.5 years I've been doing this and I don't want to kill my current income stream.

So I'm starting a bunch of new sites, throwing on my Grey Hat and running The Great Link Building Service Experiment to check out which link building services work the best.

Not having the time or inclination to do a ton of manual link building, I am going to focus on testing different link building services.

To start I scoured the web for opinions on the best link building services.
And what did I find? A sea of people and companies all pushing their own link building services. They were all different prices for different numbers of links. Some have their own content networks, some create forum profiles or posts, some article marketing, some spam blog content. But they all have the same problem, it's impossible to tell if they work from the sales page or reviews. Some seem to do far more for $47 a month than those who charge or sell software for $197 a month.

All the reviews I could find online are untrustworthy junk by affiliate marketers trying to get you to click. Heck, I have no problem buying something through an affiliate link, but the affiliate damn well better earn their commission by actually telling me something useful about the service that I couldn't find anywhere else.

So I'm putting my money where my mouth is to provide YOU, Fellow Warrior, with the data you need.

Which Is The Best Link Building Service?

Here is exactly what I'm doing:
  1. Register 5 very similar domains for a specific keyword on the same day. I've already done this step. I've kept them as close to the keywords as possible. For example, bestseoexperiment.org, bestseoexperiment.com, bestseoexperiment.net, best-seoexperiment.org, and best-seoexperiement.com. NOTE, those aren't the domains, I'm picking a product keyword with medium competition that at least makes the investment in SEO services worthwhile.
  2. Install Wordpress on 5 different shared hosting accounts - This way all five domains will be on distinct IP address. Also completed!
  3. Create main page content. I will create and manually spin a home page article for each site. I will try very hard to keep similar length, similar keyword density and similar SEO value (number of h2 and h3 tags with the same keywords targeted, each good sized at 800-900 words, etc). Also completed!
  4. I will submit each of the 5 sites to a couple social media sites and RSS feed sites using different profiles. This is simply to get Google and Yahoo to find them before the link building starts. I'm doing this step today.
  5. Buy a subscription to the five candidate link building services listed below. I'll point each subscription at one of the sites. I'll try to keep the linking natural by mixing up my submissions as much as allowed on the service (50% main keyword targeted, 35% related keyword targeted, 5% URL targeted, 5% "Click Here" targeted).
  6. Create new content. I'll create new similar content subpages on each site and point the next month's link building service 50% at the home page and 50% at one of those new pages for related keywords to get some deep link love.
  7. Track the results! On at least a weekly basis I'll track the Yahoo reported number of links, the keyword positions and search engine traffic for each site and make pretty charts and graphs. At the end I'll do a overall backlink value analysis on each site
Again, the goal here is to keep the sites and content similar enough for a good test, but unique enough to avoid any duplicate content penalties.

BuildMyRank vs LinkAloha vs Unique Article Wizard vs 1WayLinks vs Good Old Fashioned SEO Elbow Grease

Here are the five services in the running. I chose these based on cost and opinions around the web as the best bang for the buck with minimal effort.

BuildMyRank
1waylinks
LinkAloha
Unique Article Wizard
My SEO Elbow Grease

I have more details on each of these services and why I chose them on my site (check my sig below) and which services I decided to pass over.

I plan on running this experiment for at least six months so as to give each service a chance to shine. I will post updates throughout.

Depending on how this goes, I've got many more of these hard data experiments up my sleeve that I'll be sharing over the coming months.

If anyone has a very compelling argument why I should test a different service other than the five above, make your case fast. I'm signing up for all these starting early next week.

Questions, comments and advice always welcome!

UPDATE Week 2/3: Seeing some rankings!
UPDATE Week 4: Moving Up Fast
UPDATE Week 4.5: More Data Per Request
UPDATE Week 5/6: BMR Hits Page 1
UPDATE Week 7: UAW Finally Kicks In
UPDATE Week 8/9: The Ignoring
UPDATE Week 10/11/12: The Ignoring Ends
UPDATE Week 13/14/15: Sandboxed And Back Again
UPDATE Week 16/17/18/19/20/21/22: Five Months In

If you find this experiment useful, please click the THANKS Button right below --------------VVVVV
#2011 #building #buildmyrank #experiment #great #link #link building #seo #service #unique article wizard
  • Profile picture of the author jfhamil
    Great - this is an awesome experiment. I will be checking in frequently to see how it is going. Thanks! Jean
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  • Profile picture of the author mozesteven
    Thank you ElectronPlumber - I always stay tune to this great experiment. I will even read every step you post here.

    Regards,
    Mozesteven
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  • Profile picture of the author luckymom78
    Not very many voters I voted, it will be interesting to see how it turns out
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  • Profile picture of the author chrisadams008
    Nice tips. I hope this is effective so that it can also help us. Thank you for sharing.
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  • Profile picture of the author ameerulislam10
    Originally Posted by ElectronPlumber View Post



    I plan on running this experiment for at least six months so as to give each service a chance to shine. I will post updates throughout.


    Depending on how this goes, I've got many more of these hard data experiments up my sleeve that I'll be sharing over the coming months.


    If anyone has a very compelling argument why I should test a different service other than the five above, make your case fast. I'm signing up for all these starting early next week.


    Questions, comments and advice always welcome!


    Stay tuned!
    Looks like we are heading to a great case study. Please make sure you update your progress on this particular thread. I'm subscribing to this thread and want to be part of your experiment. Thanks
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  • Profile picture of the author stuartpanter
    hi, are there any updates on this project in the pipeline,
    thanks
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  • Profile picture of the author pmg2712
    I am lurking for the same!!!
    Article directories with fresh articles is the best way, google loves it!
    It is a slow going process though.
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  • Profile picture of the author ElectronPlumber
    Update: Week 1
    This is going to be a LONG experiment, as everyone tends to agree on one thing about link building, most of the time you don't see the results for weeks or months. I'm figuring that if a service doesn't show any significant rankings in six months, then it's pretty worthless. It's going to cost me about $300 per service to find out though, but I figure you guys are worth it right?

    All five sites are up and running. Here is the exact setup:

    All sites are Wordpress 3.0.4 with the Thesis theme.
    All have 800-900 word articles on them, each hand written by me, three sections with title, h2 and h3 tags containing the main keywords.
    All three have an About, Contact, and Privacy Policy, and Sitemap page.
    No Adsense or links out yet. Only well targeted content about the niche.

    Site 1: Godaddy Shared Hosting Account #1
    Site 2: Godaddy Shared Hosting Account #2
    Site 3: Hostgator Shared Hosting Account #1
    Site 4: Hostgator Shared Hosting Account #2
    Site 5: Godaddy 4g Shared Hosting Account #1

    No sites are ranking for any keywords.

    Week 1 Plan:
    1) Create 5 new Mixx, Reddit and StumbleUpon accounts, link each site. This is to give each site a semi equal link footing to start with and make Google and Yahoo take notice of each site semi-naturally.
    2) Purchase and setup the four services listed above, one per site.

    More updates as they happen!
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  • Profile picture of the author dejoliet31
    WOW! This is a wonderful case study that will shed factual light on a subject that has long been based on opinion. Though the final results require patience, I will be one of those greatly anticipating the data that will surely come.

    Congrats on committing the time and resources to conduct this experiment.
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  • Profile picture of the author AbsolutJake82
    Impressive....I will be interested to see the results!
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  • Profile picture of the author Riatsala
    Thanks for doing this. I'll be watching with interest...
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  • Profile picture of the author faysal969
    Thank you very much for your nice and informative article.

    It will help a wide range of people.
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  • Profile picture of the author jonnyhardbaked
    Wonderful! this will help me in writing an article
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  • Profile picture of the author mozesteven
    Unique Article Wizard is my choice as we are not only put links everywhere but we also have to provide good articles to the network.

    Any update?

    Regards,
    Mozesteven
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  • Profile picture of the author ElectronPlumber
    UPDATE: Week 2/3
    Ok, the summary: All sites are up, all sites are getting link love from their respective service, some rankings are starting to show up but nothing worth getting excited about yet.

    I want to give each service a couple of weeks to even out before giving out any real numbers. I signed up for some at the start of last week and others near the end of the week and that might be affecting the data so far.

    On a scale of 1-10 for difficulty, with 10 being most difficult, I'd put my three word keyword at a 4 and the two word version at a 6. For reference, I would rate the keyword "insurance" a 10 on this scale, "car insurance" a 9, "car insurance quotes" an 8, down to "children's toy car insurance policy" a 0.

    If I can rank my three word keyword on the first page of Google with one of these services, I figure it's WELL worth the $50 a month.

    For your number crunchers, the three word has:
    1000 Exact Searches Per Month
    26,000 SEOTC (All in Title Competition)
    27,000 SEOUC (All in URL Competition)
    1,300,000 SEOC (Any mention on a page Competition)

    The two word has:
    10,000 Exact Searches Per Month
    495,000 SEOTC (All in Title Competition)
    365,000 SEOUC (All in URL Competition)
    2,600,000 SEOC (Any mention on a page Competition)

    Some interesting points so far...

    Google Preferred Indexing The .Com Version!
    The only .com version in the experiment had all pages indexed in Google before any links were created, even my placeholder pages that just had "Coming Soon!" on them! The two .org's and two .net's still aren't fully indexed by Google for all 10 pages I put in the sitemap, even with some backlinking. Could just be a coincidence, but I think it's telling enough to take a second look in a follow up experiment.

    Google Doesn't Care About My Keyword Stuffed Domain
    All five domains in the experiment are exact keyword stuffed, and yet none of them are in the top 1000 for that keyword for a broad search on Google! Some are barely in the top 500 exact phrase search for Google! Most are showing up in the 10-150 range for an exact phrase search on the phrase in Yahoo and Bing though.

    Yahoo And Bing Did Care About My Keyword Stuffed Domain
    In fact, three of my domains are in the top 20 for an exact phrase search (in quotes) on Bing, one is even at position 9! Still barely in the top 150 for that as a broad search (the kind everyone actually does) but it's a good start for a 3 week old domain.

    -------------
    Week 2/3 Conclusions
    Again, take this info with a grain of salt. This is only 5 domains and certainly not a statistically significant sample size at ALL. Coincidences may be at work here in these first few weeks. I expect any coincidences to even out in a few months of using these link building services.

    So far after less than a week live, two of the services are making a decent sized standout on Yahoo and Bing ranking in the top 100, but I'm not going to tell you which yet. They are the 1st and 3rd services I started using, and were started about 5 days apart.

    Stay Tuned!
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  • Profile picture of the author Jusiam
    Looks interesting! Bookmarked the thread.
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    • Profile picture of the author I Still Got It
      Interesting thread, I will certainly be following your adventure. I have been testing BMR for about 6 weeks, the service is great but you have to keep adding fresh articles daily as your links are soon pushed off the PR page.
      I have been building my own network of PR 2 - 5 sites and im trying various little experiments on them (ie article links v blogroll links etc)
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      • Profile picture of the author aa411853
        Originally Posted by I Still Got It View Post

        Interesting thread, I will certainly be following your adventure. I have been testing BMR for about 6 weeks, the service is great but you have to keep adding fresh articles daily as your links are soon pushed off the PR page.
        I have been building my own network of PR 2 - 5 sites and im trying various little experiments on them (ie article links v blogroll links etc)
        Do you have evidence that the post falling off the front page actually effects your SERPs? I've got sites of my own that are on page 1 for competitive terms for which I've done hardly any link building, BMR or other, in months (so there are no homepage links) and the SERPs are very steady.

        If you were trying to build page rank sure you want the link right on the homepage, but that's not the purpose of BMR of course.
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        • Profile picture of the author I Still Got It
          Originally Posted by aa411853 View Post

          Do you have evidence that the post falling off the front page actually effects your SERPs? I've got sites of my own that are on page 1 for competitive terms for which I've done hardly any link building, BMR or other, in months (so there are no homepage links) and the SERPs are very steady.

          If you were trying to build page rank sure you want the link right on the homepage, but that's not the purpose of BMR of course.
          Not criticizing BMR at all, I find it an excellent service but my niche is rather competitive so I think it helps to be constantly building links.

          My main competitors link profile shows many blogroll links across a wide range of blogs(all with minimal content) It seems to work for him, so this is what Im looking to add to my other methods ie - BMR, Blog posts, Directories and old fashioned link requests.
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          • Profile picture of the author Digitel
            I am so impressed and it is very interesting to see the results.
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          • Profile picture of the author ElectronPlumber
            Originally Posted by I Still Got It View Post

            Not criticizing BMR at all, I find it an excellent service but my niche is rather competitive so I think it helps to be constantly building links.

            My main competitors link profile shows many blogroll links across a wide range of blogs(all with minimal content) It seems to work for him, so this is what Im looking to add to my other methods ie - BMR, Blog posts, Directories and old fashioned link requests.
            Any bump you get from being on the front page on a BMR site is very temporary, since most articles don't stay on there for more than 12 hours. I think it does REALLY help in getting them indexed though.

            While I am not doing it in this experiment, pretty much everyone who says they are very successful with a link building content network like BMR or 1WayLinks has also done work building backlinks to the articles, either directly or by heavily backlinking an RSS feed that contains all their article links. Might keep that in my pocket as a follow up experiment.

            So far the only service I'm trying that doesn't provide an exact list of the links is Unique Article Wizard. They provide a list of sites your article is submitted to, but it's been about 50/50 on those actually existing or not. BMR, 1WayLinks and LinkAloha all provide a nice list of links to the articles or profiles published.
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            • Profile picture of the author ElectronPlumber
              Week 4 Update

              Alright, now we're talking. Some major movement during week 4! Note that this is week 4 since registering the sites and week 3 of using each service.

              Finally started to rank with Google this week.

              The score for my main 3 word keyword:
              The site using BuildMyRank is at the top of Page 2 of Google!
              The site using 1WayLinks is on Page 4 of Google.
              The site using LinkAloha is on Page 5 of Google.
              The site using UniqueArticleWizard is on Page 16 of Google
              The site using my own homegrown SEO is not in the first 20 pages.

              Check my site (in my sig) for more detailed results.

              Also the top three sites are starting to get a trickle of search traffic for some long tail keywords, only 5-10 visitors a day, but still nice to see. I might put some Adsense on there next week just for kicks.

              It'll be interesting to see if any sandboxing kicks in on any of these in the coming weeks or if they keep climbing.

              Feel free to hit me with questions if anyone wants more details about how I've setup these sites.
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  • Profile picture of the author bummed.out
    Wow! Thank you for taking the time to do this. I really appreciate you offering to share your findings for something this comprehensive.
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  • Profile picture of the author ryanjm
    This doesn't surprise me w/BMR. It is very good at getting a site to page 2 or 3 quickly. But I will be very very surprised if it continues to move up from where it's at now.
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    • Profile picture of the author Fraggler
      Originally Posted by ryanjm View Post

      This doesn't surprise me w/BMR. It is very good at getting a site to page 2 or 3 quickly. But I will be very very surprised if it continues to move up from where it's at now.
      It doesn't suprise me, either.

      I am a massive fan of BMR and it is my bulk backlink builder of choice. It will get a keyword to page 1 pretty quickly if you are a little selective with your keyword choice.

      It always gives me a reasonable boost for established and more competitive keywords too.
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      • Profile picture of the author ElectronPlumber
        Originally Posted by niplag View Post

        It would be interesting to know if the site ranking at page 2 of Google was a .com
        Nope niplag! The BMR site that is on Page 2 is actually one of the .org's. The 1WayLinks site has jumped up today to join it on Page 2, that one is a .net. The LinkAloha site is .com and that's moved up to Page 3.

        Originally Posted by thetruth23 View Post

        Nice thread!

        Could you give us more details in how you're utilising each service?

        BMR: how many posts per day are being submitted? Are they all short posts or are you doing longer articles too?
        LinkAloha: how many links are you drip feeding per day?
        Etc for the other services...
        Here are updated numbers for today. Note that I post this data and more on my site each week (Google "Electron Plumber") if you want to see more details. Actually climbed a bit from when I wrote these up on Sunday.

        The BuildMyRank Site is a .org
        • Google Rank: 11
        • Pages Indexed: 8
        • Yahoo reported Backlinks: 12
        I have only created 16 links on BMR so far, only short posts just over the 150 word limit. I did one shot of 8 to start, another shot of 8 early last week. No dripping here, since there were so few. I'm working on another 8 pack right now to hopefully drive me to Page 1. Why 8 at a time? That seems to be the number of articles I can write in one sitting without my head exploding.
        --------------------------------------

        1WayLinksSite is a .net
        • Google Rank: 14 (just hit 14 today!)
        • Pages Indexed:8
        • Yahoo reported Backlinks: 144
        So far I have used 360 article submissions total on BMR. Only one long article fairly well spun with two links. I varied the link text via spinning a bit here to make it look slightly more natural. Dripped at a rate of around 20 a day.

        --------------------------------------

        Link Aloha Site is a .com
        • Google Rank: 34
        • Pages Indexed: 9
        • Yahoo reported Backlinks: 15
        So far 440 links created by LinkAloha, dripped at around 20 a day. I started this one 4 days earlier than the 1WayLinks subscription, thus the number difference.

        --------------------------------------

        UniqueArticleWizard Site (.org)

        • Google Rank: 170 (actually dropped from 147 since Sunday)
        • Pages Indexed: 7
        • Yahoo reported Backlinks: 15
        UAW reports that article was submitted to 263 "article directories", which seems to be 13 article directories and 250 random low quality autoblogs. I have no idea how many were actually accepted and published but I've found about 40 that were and 40 that hit 404 pages before I got bored clicking links in the list.

        Compared to the other three above, I'm really not impressed at all with UniqueArticleWizard unfortunately. There is too much work manually spinning three 300 word article versions and too much uncertainty that they won't be published to justify a higher cost for lower results.

        There is a good chance I'm going to kick UniqueArticleWizard to the curb early. I'd be far better off doubling my LinkAloha subscription and paying for some written articles on BMR with that $67 or switching to another service for the duration.

        Anyone have a favorite service that I should consider switching to? Article Marketing Robot or LinkVana or SEOLinkVine maybe?
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        • Profile picture of the author Enzo Ewens
          Include AMR for your Campaigns, and your Own HIGH PR Blog Network (Web 2.0) if you can manage to build High PR To them.
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    • Profile picture of the author simonmon
      Originally Posted by ryanjm View Post

      This doesn't surprise me w/BMR. It is very good at getting a site to page 2 or 3 quickly. But I will be very very surprised if it continues to move up from where it's at now.
      Very interesting you said that. I've been using BMR for some months now for 4 domains & it gets me to page 2 - 3 quickly as you said. This includes doing PR blog commenting & article subs. But I need to be giving an extra push to make further progress. You sound like you have some experience here. I would appreciate any suggestions you may have? I saw it mentioned that backlinking your backlinks is important. I can see how that helps, but does it?
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      • Profile picture of the author scottuga44
        isnt it time for an update? very interested in this thread, great job so far!!!
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  • Profile picture of the author niplag
    It would be interesting to know if the site ranking at page 2 of Google was a .com
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  • Profile picture of the author thetruth23
    Nice thread!

    Could you give us more details in how you're utilising each service?

    BMR: how many posts per day are being submitted? Are they all short posts or are you doing longer articles too?
    LinkAloha: how many links are you drip feeding per day?
    Etc for the other services...
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  • Profile picture of the author JScoppa
    Love the thread and the updates. I will be sure to follow this one!
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    • Profile picture of the author garben2011
      Originally Posted by JScoppa View Post

      Love the thread and the updates. I will be sure to follow this one!
      Cool stuff!

      I really enjoy a good case study. Keep thinking I'll do one myself one day soon.

      Looking forward to seeing how yours turns out. Anytime we can gain some real intelligence from an in the trenches test like yours it's a good thing!
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      • Profile picture of the author niplag
        Looking forward to the next update!
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  • Profile picture of the author MarksWineClub
    I use BMR (well I have for around a month now) and was intrigued when you said people build links to those posts.

    Do you mind sharing any more info there? What type of links etc? If I make a 200 profile run from sick submitter, would that be helpful? More?
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    • Profile picture of the author alco
      What's the chance Google may 'out' these services and why is UAW doing so badly? It seems to be the one that is most talked about from Reading various IM forums.
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      • Profile picture of the author ElectronPlumber
        Originally Posted by alco View Post

        What's the chance Google may 'out' these services and why is UAW doing so badly? It seems to be the one that is most talked about from Reading various IM forums.
        Alco, I think most of these services are setup in a way that Google would be unable to "out" them completely. If they haven't done so by now, it's unlikely they will in the near future. The sites your links get on do not interlink to each other, so even if Google discovers one they won't find the others. That doesn't mean they can't notice your site having an unnatural link profile that only consists of keyword stuffed text and manually burying your site. The sites in this experiment are certainly at risk for that, but it's worth it to see the value of each of these services in a vacuum so to speak.

        I don't think UniqueArticleWizard is doing that badly, just that it's doing really badly compared to the other three.

        I posted an article on my site evaluating exactly why I think UniqueArticleWizard isn't succeeding like the others. It's way too long to copy here. Go check it out if you want more details.

        Originally Posted by MarksWineClub View Post

        I use BMR (well I have for around a month now) and was intrigued when you said people build links to those posts.

        Do you mind sharing any more info there? What type of links etc? If I make a 200 profile run from sick submitter, would that be helpful? More?
        Well Mark, BMR does backlinking to your articles automatically. So it might be less useful to add to it. If you decide to go with one of the other services like 1waylinks or LinkAloha you might want to do some backlinking to those pages to help boost them. I will likely go back in a few months and backlink my articles to give them a boost, but I don't want to cloud the results of this experiment while it's still in progress.
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  • Profile picture of the author MarksWineClub
    Interesting stuff as always. Thanks for the response and insight.

    I think everyone is going to really enjoy tracking the progress over time.

    Thanks again
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    Read our most recent articles on wine, this month it's that unappreciated region called Napa Valley.

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  • Profile picture of the author perfect
    Thank for your time and this great work you are dong right now.
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    Submit your articles to www.365articledirectory.com FREE, approval within 48 hours

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    • Profile picture of the author Boricua
      I've tried all of them!

      BuildMyRank.com and the similar one, LinkVana.com are networks to provide link juice, actual power to your domain authority mainly on the eyes of Google.

      Networks like UniqueArticleWizard, Isnare, ContentCrooner, SubmitYourArticle are the ones quite enough of us focus (and should) for getitng traffic from articles - not link juice!

      ArticleRanks, MyArticleNetwork, SeoLinkVine and the similar are great networks, however! Reality, they bring the traffic over time, over the trans-course of several months as their system keeps accepting the articles.

      Winner in my books for link juice? BuildMyRank for link juice! Quite a few happy campers using my services that are already reporting PR 4 links and its quite obvious when you see the actual report on their graphic, so they're fantastic.

      Winner in my books for traffic? UniqueArticleWizard! It would had been isnare, but they take weeks, and I mean WEEKS to actually approve/submit if you have 100's of articles in their queue.

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      • Profile picture of the author ElectronPlumber
        Week 5/6 Update

        Week 5/6 seems to have separated the wheat from the chaff so to speak.
        A little late with this update, but since I had already posted a week 4 and a half update here, I figured I'd wait a little bit longer.

        The quick summary: One site is now on Page 1 of Google! One site near the top of Page 2, another on Page 3. Two sites aren't anywhere to be found in the first 20 pages of Google. I had my first Adsense revenue appear this week as well.

        So far I'm getting darn good results from three of the services and actually saw my first revenue! I added some Adsense blocks to one of the sites last week and started getting some clicks.

        I'm really encouraged by the success here, seeing as how I have some more lucrative keywords I'd like to go after. Time will tell if these results continue, as well as what happens after I shut off the link building faucet at the end of this.

        The BuildMyRank Site: Google Rank 9
        The LinkAloha Site: Google Rank 13
        The 1WayLinks Site: Google Rank 36
        The UniqueArticleWizard Site: Google Rank 200+
        The My Own SEO Site: Google Rank 200+

        More detailed numbers in the full update on my site.

        This update is actually late because I've spent the last week starting a couple more unrelated sites to take advantage of the fact that you can use BuildMyRank to post up to 10 articles a day per site for up to five sites on their basic plan. No point in paying for it just to use for one site right?

        I know that my own SEO site is sucking wind because I've been completely blowing it off and putting my time other places. Hell, I told you guys right up front that I hated link building, probably too much to think I could overcome that.

        Anyone paying monthly for UniqueArticleWizard may want to seriously reconsider. The links from it aren't doing ANYTHING for my site in terms of Google Rank, and I haven't seen a single click from any natural traffic from those 200+ articles that UAW distributed. My opinion is that UAW is $67 a month down the toilet.

        I've learned so much from this first experiment that I'm thinking of starting a second one in April to settle the duplicate content argument once and for all. More updates to come.

        Questions and comments always welcome!
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  • Profile picture of the author rr1455
    Great job.... What has your cost been so far? Have you tried any way to get $$$ back?
    Keep up the great work...
    Roger
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  • Profile picture of the author nunugenius
    buildmyrank is great, but in additional you must pay more for writers
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    • Profile picture of the author ElectronPlumber
      Originally Posted by nunugenius View Post

      buildmyrank is great, but in additional you must pay more for writers
      Well, not if you write your own articles which is what I've been doing. You could certainly break the bank here buying 150 word articles at $2.50.

      If you wanted to max out the 10 article a day limit per site for 5 sites at $2.50 an article buying them from BMR, that's $3750 a month! it would be far less expensive to hire a couple offshore content writers in the Philippines for $350 a month each.
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      • Profile picture of the author ElectronPlumber
        Originally Posted by thetruth23 View Post

        Nice! That's pretty cool. I second Roger's question...how much so far has been spent on each service so we can have an idea of ROI?

        Also, what are you using to track rankings?
        For rank tracking I'm using Market Samurai with some manual visual verification.

        Originally Posted by rr1455 View Post

        Great job.... What has your cost been so far? Have you tried any way to get $$$ back?
        Keep up the great work...
        Roger
        Note that I purposefully DID NOT optimize this experiment for making revenue up front. Heck, only one of the sites has Adsense on it yet. I purposefully picked a keyword niche that was harder than I would usually go for in order to have a better spread of competition for the sites to rank against. The keyword goes for about $1 a click in Adsense, which is also lower than I would usually go for. BUT it's a niche I know a great deal about and that made it much easier to write 5 copies of the site and all the resulting articles to go with it for this experiment.

        For a total, I'm probably around $400 in the hole total right now for all 5 sites.

        I'll have to add up the cost on each site and keep a running total. 1WayLinks has a nice $7 first month special trial that helped lower the initial cost on that one. The rest were $50 or $60 each, plus around a $8 yearly domain registration. I won't count hosting since I'm piggybacking on hosting I'm already paying for.

        I'll add Adsense to all 5 sites this week, then add a "Revenue Generated" figure to each site in upcoming weekly reports.
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      • Profile picture of the author HarryPothead
        Originally Posted by ElectronPlumber View Post

        Well, not if you write your own articles which is what I've been doing. You could certainly break the bank here buying 150 word articles at $2.50.

        If you wanted to max out the 10 article a day limit per site for 5 sites at $2.50 an article buying them from BMR, that's $3750 a month! it would be far less expensive to hire a couple offshore content writers in the Philippines for $350 a month each.
        This is a brilliant idea..thanks for sharing.
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  • Profile picture of the author thetruth23
    Nice! That's pretty cool. I second Roger's question...how much so far has been spent on each service so we can have an idea of ROI?

    Also, what are you using to track rankings?
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  • Profile picture of the author App Developers
    Excellent case study! I will have to bookmark and read up on the updates!!
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  • Profile picture of the author Ian Varnava
    I think The Link Juicer should be worthy of this experiment. I've seen some decent results with it on lower competition niches.
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    • Profile picture of the author ElectronPlumber
      Originally Posted by Ian Varnava View Post

      I think The Link Juicer should be worthy of this experiment. I've seen some decent results with it on lower competition niches.
      So many backlink services out there, so little time!

      I'd never even heard of The Link Juicer before. Looks a little bit like OnlyWire with the social media focus but on steriods with the nested backlinks and automatic account creation. Those were the two things that kept me from paying Onlywire.

      While it might make the results for Site #4 more questionable in the long run, I could ditch UAW and switch over to The Link Juicer for that site just to stir the pot so to speak. That site is so far in the depths here that if The Link Juicer can bring it back to life, it would be very meaningful.

      Honestly, I personally don't have high hopes here for it competing with the current top three services. Everyone argues about what works for SEO and what doesn't, but after you read and experiment enough you can get a good sense for what to expect. And one thing most people can agree on is that 10 links from unique IPs give more weight than 100 repeat links from 1 IP. Since The Link Juicer seems to only create links from ~40 Social Media sites, having 1500 links a month from those 40 sites likely won't accomplish more than 40 links will.

      However, I'm VERY interested in using it as a link booster for all the links the other services have created. I was looking at both Backlink Energizer and OnlyWire for this and really wasn't interested in making tons of my own accounts.

      Ian (or anyone else familiar with The Link Juicer), how easy would it be to point those 1500 backlinks a month at a list of say 500 different pages? Do you need to enter them all in manually or would it take a list?
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      • Profile picture of the author garben2011
        Originally Posted by ElectronPlumber View Post

        I'd never even heard of The Link Juicer before. Looks a little bit like OnlyWire with the social media focus but on steriods with the nested backlinks and automatic account creation. Those were the two things that kept me from paying Onlywire.

        Since The Link Juicer seems to only create links from ~40 Social Media sites, having 1500 links a month from those 40 sites likely won't accomplish more than 40 links will.

        However, I'm VERY interested in using it as a link booster for all the links the other services have created. I was looking at both Backlink Energizer and OnlyWire for this and really wasn't interested in making tons of my own accounts.
        Just wanted to mention I have a subscription to TLJ. It actually does more than what you are thinking. Each project you set up (depending on how much work you want to do) can (1) publishes your content (articles) on a variety of blogs (which makes it all seem a lot like auto-blogs to me), (2) Turn your articles into a sort of mini e-book and submits them to dozens of software directories and (3) automatically builds social bookmark backlinks to your articles to help them get indexed. I might have missed something but those are the three big benefits I saw in it.

        As a pure backlink building tool... it seems to do a decent job. I got in-context links (coming from within my articles) and many of those links were indexed as well as the social bookmarks pointing to those links (maybe they build a layer of links to the SBs as well - I'm not sure). Add in the extra benefit of the links coming from your ebook software (they become executables) being distributed to the software sites and TLJ seemed to offer more for the money than the other services I checked out.

        I wasn't thrilled with it because I simply didn't care for my articles being included on some of the sites in their network so I am canceling my subscription. But that is just because I am more interested in a high-quality content distribution network something like where I would handpick sites to submit to... only it is automated as much as possible. I'm a quality over quantity nut so don't really care for any of these mass link building methods but wanted to give it a test so I could speak from experience instead of speculation. I think the majority of the sites in any of these BL networks probably rarely see any human visitors and so to me they are a waste of time and money.

        Just my view on it. Like I said, as a pure BL builder it probably does a very good job indeed so if you are only interested in building links for the robots then it is worth checking into.
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        • Profile picture of the author unikbit
          hi to all

          what do you think about AMR ? can be added into this competition?

          thanks for your great test
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        • Profile picture of the author mathman
          I've never really trusted link building services before because I want to make sure i'm getting good quality links rather then links from farms and such.

          If this experiment yields significant results, I will definitely try my hand at using the services.
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  • Profile picture of the author seye
    nice thread here,over at backlinks forums there are huge complaints there about diminish ranking effect BMR is having on there site they all seem to say they got stock or deindex after 10 BMR links this all start after the panda update.since you are reporting something different i think go for BMR now.
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    • Profile picture of the author ElectronPlumber
      Yeah, I'm actually seeing excellent results from BMR. I need to do the next update, the BMR site is now at spot #5 for my keyword!

      Note the following probably has something to do with it:
      1. My site is extremely well keyword targeted.
      2. My site is 100% hand written.
      3. I have hand written all my BMR articles around the same topic as the site.
      4. Hidden BMR secret #4 that I'll probably reveal at the end of the experiment.
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      • Profile picture of the author MrWonton
        Originally Posted by ElectronPlumber View Post

        Hidden BMR secret #4 that I'll probably reveal at the end of the experiment.
        Is it something to do with the position of your anchor text in the article? :p
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        • Profile picture of the author perswealth
          Originally Posted by MrWonton View Post

          Is it something to do with the position of your anchor text in the article? :p
          That was exactly what i was thinking, and i heard this tip from someone else before.
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          • Profile picture of the author zach86
            Originally Posted by perswealth View Post

            That was exactly what i was thinking, and i heard this tip from someone else before.
            Is that good to put anchor text in the first sentence, or in the last sentence just like "author box"?
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            • Profile picture of the author ElectronPlumber
              Originally Posted by MrWonton View Post

              Is it something to do with the position of your anchor text in the article? :p
              Originally Posted by zach86 View Post

              Is that good to put anchor text in the first sentence, or in the last sentence just like "author box"?
              Oh, I'm not giving away all my BMR secrets just yet. Gotta save some secrets for a WSO at the end of this right?
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              • Profile picture of the author ElectronPlumber
                Update Week 7

                Quick Summary for the impatient: The BMR site is now holding steady at position #5. The UAW site popped back up into the running!

                Honestly, it's hard to keep my hands off this experiment! I'm trying to keep all these sites consistent with no backlinking other than the service assigned to each. I KNOW at this point I can pop all these sites onto page 1 for some good keywords by making a couple of high PR backlinks and interlinking the sites, but that would totally destroy the integrity of the data here and I want each site to be a clean representation of each service. See what I do for my friends here the Warrior Forum?

                Note the return of the UAW site! I was shocked to see it pop up onto page 3 earlier last week before drifting to page 4. I guess it just too a little longer that the other services. It'll be VERY interesting to see what happens to it going forward. Looks like I am going to have to renew my UAW subscription after all!

                A couple people have commented about rumors they've heard about BMR having issues and the Google Panda update. You can see in my numbers below that this has NOT been the case for me. Note again that all my sites are high quality hand written unique content VERY relevant to the keyword topic. I think that after Panda you cannot point low value backlinks at a low quality site and have much of an effect. You either need high PR backlinks and/or a high quality site to rank these days.

                The numbers for week 7:

                The BuildMyRank Site: Google Rank 5
                The LinkAloha Site: Google Rank 15
                The UniqueArticleWizard Site: Google Rank 33
                The 1WayLinks Site: Google Rank 40
                The My Own SEO Site: Google Rank 200+

                More detailed numbers in the full update on my site. Questions always welcome!
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                • Profile picture of the author pr0n1x
                  It would be very interested to hear about your competitors.
                  For example site that you promote with BMR.
                  Which sites are located on the first line, which they have PR as they have backlinks, etc.
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  • Profile picture of the author seye
    hmm BMR all the way,good stuff there bro how competitive is your niche or site backlink with bmr. i found a niche suitable for adsense but the compt is high with a couple of pr4 on the first page do you think BMR will get me to the first page in a month.waz up with the linkahloha backlink site is it holding up and increasing in the searp
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  • Profile picture of the author zach86
    I start using BMR today.

    I notice you mention in your post that your BMR domain got removed. Is that domain only have one home page even w/o privacy & about page? And seems like BMR accepted it at the beginning and then remove it?

    My domain has homepage, about page, contact form page and sitemap page and they approved, is that likely to be removed later because I only have 2 pages have real content?
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  • Profile picture of the author chinabness
    Wow, interesting!
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  • Profile picture of the author links900
    So according to your experiment BMR is good.Well like to see your final update but do all these sites are of same niche and keywords
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  • Profile picture of the author nettech
    Fantastic thread and well done for all the time, effort and resources you have put into this experiment.

    Quick questions, with UAW, what is your rate of submissions per day, how many words were your articles and finally did you spin them?

    All the best
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    • Profile picture of the author ElectronPlumber
      Originally Posted by nettech View Post

      Fantastic thread and well done for all the time, effort and resources you have put into this experiment.

      Quick questions, with UAW, what is your rate of submissions per day, how many words were your articles and finally did you spin them?

      All the best
      Thanks nettech! For UAW I've submitted two 600 word articles at 30 submissions per day, which I think was the maximum I could do. They were spun only at than the three versions of each paragraph, I didn't use any spin text in each paragraph.

      For the next one I'm going to try spinning some synonyms in each sentence as well as spinning the link text to give more variations on my keywords per link, see if that causes a jump.
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  • Profile picture of the author wwtmarketman
    Very interesting....
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  • Profile picture of the author akira07
    Wow, interesting thread. I’ve bookmarked this thread.

    I used the UAW since 1 month ago.
    Not a lot of backlinks from UAW submission which can be found through tracker sites such as backlinkwatch.com.
    But after reading your thread, I think the articles that are distributed by the UAW just require more time to be indexed and give effect to the SERP.

    Anyway, from these 2 submissions on your UAW, how many backlink can be tracked via tracker sites such as backlinkwatch.com?
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    • Profile picture of the author wonderd
      Im a little confused... you did something extra to the website using the BMR service? Which is why your at position 5? How is this even a real experiment then? Please explain.
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      • Profile picture of the author ElectronPlumber
        Originally Posted by wonderd View Post

        Im a little confused... you did something extra to the website using the BMR service? Which is why your at position 5? How is this even a real experiment then? Please explain.
        No, nothing extra on the BMR linked website itself. Just some things I did with the BMR service itself with the article length, positioning of the links, and link text that I think really helped.
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        • Profile picture of the author Adaptise
          Originally Posted by ElectronPlumber View Post

          No, nothing extra on the BMR linked website itself. Just some things I did with the BMR service itself with the article length, positioning of the links, and link text that I think really helped.
          Very interesting thread, I've been wondering about subscribing to one of these networks myself, so this is very interesting.

          However, your note here kinda puts me off, because it sounds like what you are doing here isn't being replicated on the other services, so it's a little unbalanced wouldn't you say....? Sounds like BMR is getting a huge benefit of the doubt here
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  • Profile picture of the author delfinparis
    EP - you've inspired me to do my own experiment! I'm finishing up the post now - it's on Matt LaClear's newest WSO where he posts 100 links a day for five keywords, one url, for an entire year. Thanks for this GREAT experiment!
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  • Profile picture of the author RichardF
    Thanks for taking the time to document your efforts. I'm a big fan and heavy user of BMR myself, and I'm loving it. This goes to show just how effective it can be. I'm finding that in some cases you really don't need more than a handful och BMR links to rank well (low comp niches).
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    • Profile picture of the author LiamP
      Hi ElectronPlumber,

      Firstly, thanks for the experiment and posting the results, it's very informative.

      Secondly, another thread got me thinking and I was wondering if you could post a screenshot from TrafficTravis or MS showing what the competition you are up against? I'm interested in what Domain Ages/PR/BLP/BLS/InTitle you have beaten so far and also what there is still to beat. You can black out domains and keywords.
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  • Profile picture of the author akira07
    There is no more update? I'm waiting for it
    I just started to using BMR
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  • suck networks:seolinkvine,thelinkjuicer,uaw
    build my rank and article ranks are good
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  • Profile picture of the author syahbiz
    i love this case study, buildmyrank works great
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  • Profile picture of the author Fornicating
    Been checking this out over the course of a few weeks, fantastic that you are doing this and extremely interesting to see how they are going to work out. Glad you stuck with all of them rather than ditch the ones that did not work to begin with, as ranking does tend to be a long term business.

    Waiting to see the finale, how long you thinking of letting it run now??
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  • Profile picture of the author akira07
    I think BMR is unbeatable
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  • Profile picture of the author logoonlinepros1
    One way link is best in any algorithm which google introduce after a one year.
    I give my vote to one way links.
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    • Profile picture of the author ameerulislam10
      Originally Posted by logoonlinepros1 View Post

      One way link is best in any algorithm which google introduce after a one year.
      I give my vote to one way links.
      One way link Google introduces? I didn't really understand. Can you explain further?

      Thanks
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  • Profile picture of the author webmaster1742
    Great!
    It's very interesting really.
    Thank you very much for sharing.
    Alex
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    (CB Top 100 Affiliates)
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  • Profile picture of the author ElectronPlumber
    UPDATE WEEK 8/9

    In the last 30 days I have created ZERO backlinks to these sites, mostly to see what would happen if I stopped the link building for a month. That, and I have a seasonal site that only receives much traffic in the spring and summer that I wanted to go full tilt on and used the link services on that site for the month. So far the combined power of the four of them have given it quite a jump.

    The plan is to go back to making the full set of links per site this week and see what jumps and what doesn't.

    Oddly enough, after stopping the links for 4 weeks, all the sites dropped a little bit EXCEPT the BuildMyRank site which popped up even more. That site actually made me a profit this past month, having made more money than I paid out in monthly charges for BMR. Of course, it's the third month I've paid for it so the site as a whole is still in the red. But it's showing that the main keyword is profitable and the site design works well. It's only averaging 15 visitors a day right now, so if the rankings hold it shouldn't be hard to get that to 10-20x the traffic for a bunch of related keywords in the next 6-12 months and be earning a nice chunk of change per month off it.

    And now the results.

    The numbers for week 8/9:

    The BuildMyRank Site: Google Rank 4
    The UniqueArticleWizard Site: Google Rank 25
    The 1WayLinks Site: Google Rank 30
    The LinkAloha Site: Google Rank 42
    The My Own SEO Site: Google Rank 200+

    More detailed numbers in the full update on my site. Questions always welcome!
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    • Profile picture of the author ElectronPlumber
      And now to answer some of the questions from last week:

      Originally Posted by pr0n1x View Post

      It would be very interested to hear about your competitors.
      For example site that you promote with BMR.
      Which sites are located on the first line, which they have PR as they have backlinks, etc.
      Originally Posted by LiamP View Post

      Hi ElectronPlumber,

      Firstly, thanks for the experiment and posting the results, it's very informative.

      Secondly, another thread got me thinking and I was wondering if you could post a screenshot from TrafficTravis or MS showing what the competition you are up against? I'm interested in what Domain Ages/PR/BLP/BLS/InTitle you have beaten so far and also what there is still to beat. You can black out domains and keywords.
      I put an image from Market Samurai of the competition for my main keyword on my website since I can't seem to upload images here at WF. Check it out here. Market Samurai doesn't show AllInTitle or AllInUrl anymore unfortunately, but I did it manually:

      AllInTitle: 45,000
      AllInURL: 40,000

      The BMR site shows up at position #3 for the AllInTitle search, but not in the top 20 for the AllInURL search.

      Originally Posted by unikbit View Post

      hi to all

      what do you think about AMR ? can be added into this competition?

      thanks for your great test
      Looking back I guess I never mentioned this in the post, but the first article on my site discusses why I chose UAW over AMR. I'm thinking about a followup experiment using the 4-5 other services I passed up, but not sure if I'll ever get around to it.

      Originally Posted by Sevenhelmets View Post

      Very interesting thread, I've been wondering about subscribing to one of these networks myself, so this is very interesting.

      However, your note here kinda puts me off, because it sounds like what you are doing here isn't being replicated on the other services, so it's a little unbalanced wouldn't you say....? Sounds like BMR is getting a huge benefit of the doubt here
      Sevenhelmets, you have to remember these services are all VERY different. I'm using each service in a vacuum here, no cross over or extra links not provided by that service. For example, LinkAloha is only links, no content or article needed. UAW and 1WayLinks rely on user provided article directories or blogs. BMR creates it's own closed network of sites. BMR has created around 30 links, UAW around 200, 1WayLinks around 650, and LinkAloha over 1000. The links here aren't created equal, nor could they ever be really. One service lets you put in one link per article, one two, and the other three.

      The goal is to see how much SEO juice I can get from each service for about $50 a month.

      Technically BMR is actually more work, since writing 30 articles take a lot longer than spinning an article for 1WayLinks or creating three unique versions for UAW.

      So is it 100% entirely fair here? No. But is it really really really darn interesting and educational to see how each service boosts 5 different cloned sites in the SERPS when used completely on it's own? Hell yeah!

      Originally Posted by Fornicating View Post

      Been checking this out over the course of a few weeks, fantastic that you are doing this and extremely interesting to see how they are going to work out. Glad you stuck with all of them rather than ditch the ones that did not work to begin with, as ranking does tend to be a long term business.

      Waiting to see the finale, how long you thinking of letting it run now??
      I'm really hoping to keep it up for 6 months, until around August, but probably doing links every other month. From what I've seen so far I think these sites have the potential to earn me a lot of money this holiday season and I'll probably start building some high PR links and cross linking in September in preparation for the November/December Amazon goldrush.
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  • Profile picture of the author richfit
    Bottom line on link building: the old schoo methods of link building still work and actually are back in action. With testing on hundreds of domains we've proven it.

    Link building is still a must do but when it's coupled with social media it's much more powerful, in fact a necessary ingredient in today's ranking environment!
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  • Profile picture of the author 78Amy
    Looks like your own SEO stuff could use a little work

    Really, thanks for sharing! This is good stuff!
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    • Profile picture of the author ElectronPlumber
      Originally Posted by 78Amy View Post

      Looks like your own SEO stuff could use a little work

      Really, thanks for sharing! This is good stuff!
      Yeah, my ElectronPlumber site SEO is terrible. Other than some social media submissions years ago I haven't bothered.

      I've been thinking about paying someone to do a nice custom theme for it and finally going pro with it.
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  • Profile picture of the author lukemeister
    Wow this is awesome - I've sort of noticed the same thing you have about BMR having good staying power after not linking anymore, but I've never seen any evidence to help verify it
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  • Profile picture of the author Rach72
    I'm just going to join the ranks of those thanking you for doing this. My article submission service just imploded and was tossing up between AMR and UAW - but I'll definitely check out BMR now .....

    BTW - I hope that you have a monetized this experiment on your site and have become an affiliate for all the services - this is such a great experiment, it'd be a shame to waste it? (tee hee)
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  • Profile picture of the author RichardF
    Thanks for the update! Not surprised that the BMR site is holding steady, and even improving, I'm getting great results from them as well (and have been for months now).
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    • Profile picture of the author Val Kinsky
      I have been reading this thread with fascination.

      I have used 1waylinks service a little while ago and had to cancel as it became extremely time consuming writing all the content for the service. Once you go beyond 10 sites you need to build links to, it becomes extremely time consuming to write all the content, particularly if all your sites are in different niches. You can't just write one article and include links to different sites (only if they are in the same niche). But the most frustrating thing was that Google pretty much very quickly found out what I was doing and would discard most of the links that have been built. One day I would see 100 new links pointing to my site (built over 30 day period) and then a week later I would only see 30 left, pretty much back to where I was before I started with the service. That repeated over the next 2 months. So I cancelled.

      There are other factors that Google looks into. If you happen to have a .com domain you can pretty much rank for whatever keyword with very little back-linking. For instance I have this hyphenated .net domain that I can only find on Google page 15; however, its .com counterpart is on page 1 at #2 position. I thought that may be this guy has lots of links - nope, just 2 SB links and only one page of content. My poor hyphenated .net site has 7 unique articles and 4 SB backlinks, and it's on page 15.

      This is very discouraging, because I thought Google would reward me for the content but they don't seem to care. I do have a couple new .com sites though that went straight to Google's page 1 or 2 with just one article and no back-linking.

      Whatever this latest Google update is, they seem to be rewarding .com domains that are highly targeted and built just around one keyword. You will be propelled to page 1 or 2 without any back-linking whatsoever. Just make sure you pick up low to low-medium competition keywords.

      As much as this experiment fascinates me, I don't think it actually would prove anything (I hope it will, though).
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      • Profile picture of the author mekap04
        Its great you are doing such a thread. I've used BMR and UAW and both are good although I think BMR is far better. I will follow along with this thread as I am interested in the results from the rest of the services.
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      • Profile picture of the author ElectronPlumber
        Originally Posted by Val Kinsky View Post

        I have been reading this thread with fascination.

        I have used 1waylinks service a little while ago and had to cancel as it became extremely time consuming writing all the content for the service. Once you go beyond 10 sites you need to build links to, it becomes extremely time consuming to write all the content, particularly if all your sites are in different niches. You can't just write one article and include links to different sites (only if they are in the same niche). But the most frustrating thing was that Google pretty much very quickly found out what I was doing and would discard most of the links that have been built. One day I would see 100 new links pointing to my site (built over 30 day period) and then a week later I would only see 30 left, pretty much back to where I was before I started with the service. That repeated over the next 2 months. So I cancelled.

        There are other factors that Google looks into. If you happen to have a .com domain you can pretty much rank for whatever keyword with very little back-linking. For instance I have this hyphenated .net domain that I can only find on Google page 15; however, its .com counterpart is on page 1 at #2 position. I thought that may be this guy has lots of links - nope, just 2 SB links and only one page of content. My poor hyphenated .net site has 7 unique articles and 4 SB backlinks, and it's on page 15.

        This is very discouraging, because I thought Google would reward me for the content but they don't seem to care. I do have a couple new .com sites though that went straight to Google's page 1 or 2 with just one article and no back-linking.

        Whatever this latest Google update is, they seem to be rewarding .com domains that are highly targeted and built just around one keyword. You will be propelled to page 1 or 2 without any back-linking whatsoever. Just make sure you pick up low to low-medium competition keywords.

        As much as this experiment fascinates me, I don't think it actually would prove anything (I hope it will, though).
        Val, these are the types of things I'm hoping to find out here. Matt Cutts from Google has stated that their algorithms don't give any more or less weight to a .com than .net or even .info. They're all treated equally for ranking. My findings are the opposite of what you are saying too. The winning domain here so far is a .org. For a while the .net was in close second.

        In any experimental analysis, it's important to remember that correlation doesn't imply causation. The fact that more people are seen with umbrella's when it's raining does NOT mean that umbrella's cause it to rain.

        First off, all links are not created equal. The top site in this experiment is a .org and only reports 11 links, while the .com on page 3 reports 75ish. It's like comparing money as if all were equal. I'll take 10 $500 bills over 500 $1 bills any day.

        Second, you can't compare the ranking of a site with 7 pages as a .net to one with 1 page as a .com and say the .com is the reason it ranks better. Internal linking structure, on page SEO factors, and that all important backlink QUALITY and the rest play a huge role here.

        That's why the 5 sites in the experiment are as IDENTICAL as possible where it counts. On page SEO, number of keywords in title tags, number of internal links and number of external links are all EQUAL. To avoid any duplicate content issues they have hand written unique content that is similar enough for SEO purposes.

        I can pretty much say with certainty that having good content on a well designed site with good backlinks will far outweigh any .com vs .org vs keyword stuffed domains. In fact, my highest affiliate earning site in my portfolio gets 90% of it's traffic from Google and is not a .com and is not keyword matched at all!

        Don't sweat the minor stuff. Stop chasing field mice when you should be out hunting deer.
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        • Profile picture of the author Val Kinsky
          Hi Electron Plumber,

          Thanks for your detailed reply. I can't wait to see what your final conclusions will be.
          With regard to my .net domain, I think the most important factor here that played against me was the fact that it was a hyphenated domain. I never dabbled in hyphenated domains before, and that's probably why I am so frustrated. I actually launched 3 hyphenated sites one after another - 1 .net and 2 .coms with exact same onpage SEO that I would normally do, all 3 low comp niches. I expected them to pop up after being indexed at least somewhere on Google's page 4, if not 2 or 3. Instead, they did not show up in search results at all. They were all fully indexed, and not showing in search results, like anywhere at all. I finally submitted them to Google for re-consideration, as I figured out they must've hit some sort of filter. All 3 had unique content and only white-hat SEO. Miraculously, 5 days later all 3 emerged from nowhere, but started really badly - all beyond Google's page 10.
          Anyway, if Matt Cutts says they are not biased against .org, .net, or .info domains, I do think they treat hyphenated domains differently. At least, this is my experience.
          Where your experiment becomes very interesting to me is that I normally would not start building any links at all for the first two months because your website's position in search results will be extremely volatile anyway, links or no links. I don't think Google really pays attention to your link-building while your site is still too young, and may even punish you if you build too many. This is the only factor that makes me think that you might not get, how can I put it, realistic results.
          But I am looking forward to hear the results whatever they are.
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      • Profile picture of the author GardeniaShrub
        Originally Posted by Val Kinsky View Post

        I have used 1waylinks service a little while ago and had to cancel as it became extremely time consuming writing all the content for the service. Once you go beyond 10 sites you need to build links to, it becomes extremely time consuming to write all the content, particularly if all your sites are in different niches. You can't just write one article and include links to different sites (only if they are in the same niche). But the most frustrating thing was that Google pretty much very quickly found out what I was doing and would discard most of the links that have been built. One day I would see 100 new links pointing to my site (built over 30 day period) and then a week later I would only see 30 left, pretty much back to where I was before I started with the service. That repeated over the next 2 months. So I cancelled.
        Do you mean the links you created got deindexed by Google (i.e. you checked by dropping the urls into G?) Or do you mean that you checked Yahoo site explorer and they showed 100 links one week and 30 links the next?

        Yahoo site explorer has been providing unreliable data for a while and also, Yahoo is not Google, so what you see in site explorer has nothing to do with what G has picked up and recognised.
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        • Profile picture of the author ameerulislam10
          Originally Posted by GardeniaShrub View Post

          Do you mean the links you created got deindexed by Google (i.e. you checked by dropping the urls into G?) Or do you mean that you checked Yahoo site explorer and they showed 100 links one week and 30 links the next?

          Yahoo site explorer has been providing unreliable data for a while and also, Yahoo is not Google, so what you see in site explorer has nothing to do with what G has picked up and recognised.
          I have noticed that in in yahoo site explorer as well. I saw few links in one day and those links were gone in another day. And day after that it came back and the next day it went away again. What kind of joke is that?

          And what is found in yahoo site explorer is obviously what yahoo spiders crawled not what big G crawled.
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        • Profile picture of the author Val Kinsky
          Originally Posted by GardeniaShrub View Post

          Do you mean the links you created got deindexed by Google (i.e. you checked by dropping the urls into G?) Or do you mean that you checked Yahoo site explorer and they showed 100 links one week and 30 links the next?

          Yahoo site explorer has been providing unreliable data for a while and also, Yahoo is not Google, so what you see in site explorer has nothing to do with what G has picked up and recognised.
          That would be Yahoo site explorer. I also use Backlink Checker from online-utility.org, but it as unreliable as Yahoo. Google itself rarely reports any links at all, so there is no way of knowing what they are aware of. I just checked backlinks of one of my competitors who shows more than 800 backlinks in Yahoo, but only 8 backlinks in Google. This shows how extremely notorious Google is for under reporting links.

          I am not sure what Google thinks of backlinks any more. One of my sites have just been pushed from position 2 to 3 on Google's page 1 by a site that has no backlinks at all (Yahoo, Google or backlink checker). It does have more content, though. However, my site does have 4 .edu links, so supposedly it should have outweighed a site with no links. Well, ...not really.
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        • Profile picture of the author ElectronPlumber
          Originally Posted by GardeniaShrub View Post

          Do you mean the links you created got deindexed by Google (i.e. you checked by dropping the urls into G?) Or do you mean that you checked Yahoo site explorer and they showed 100 links one week and 30 links the next?

          Yahoo site explorer has been providing unreliable data for a while and also, Yahoo is not Google, so what you see in site explorer has nothing to do with what G has picked up and recognised.
          A Google link: search is pretty much useless. Unfortunately Yahoo Site Explorer still remains the #1 FREE method for backlink tracking data. You certainly can't count on it to be completely accurate, but it gives you a decent indicator if your valid backlink count is going up or down. If your backlinks are going away, it usually means they were of such low value that they were deindexed very quickly.

          If anyone has a better service for finding out indexed backlinks, I'd love to know about it.
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          • Profile picture of the author Val Kinsky
            Originally Posted by ElectronPlumber View Post

            A Google link: search is pretty much useless. Unfortunately Yahoo Site Explorer still remains the #1 FREE method for backlink tracking data. You certainly can't count on it to be completely accurate, but it gives you a decent indicator if your valid backlink count is going up or down. If your backlinks are going away, it usually means they were of such low value that they were deindexed very quickly.

            If anyone has a better service for finding out indexed backlinks, I'd love to know about it.
            I don't think it's the question of low or high quality links. Google or Yahoo have no ability or manpower to assess for quality millions of backlinks created daily. What they can do though, is to have an algorithm in place that would determine the age of your domain, and then compare the unique traffic you get and the number of backlinks created, and simply discard a percentage of backlinks to bring it down to what would be a more natural backlink pattern. Too many times I saw some of my more relevant and valuable links go, and some crappy links stay.
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          • Profile picture of the author GardeniaShrub
            Originally Posted by ElectronPlumber View Post

            A Google link: search is pretty much useless.
            True - but if you know the urls of your backlinks, you (or someone you pay) can drop the urls into G's search box to see if they show up in the results. It's pretty much the only reliable way of checking whether the backlinks you create are getting indexed.

            Yahoo and Google are pretty much universes apart in what they will index. I've often found backlinks listed in Yahoo that have never been indexed by G (and vice versa).

            Add to that the fact that yahoo Site Explorer is on it's way out and the increasing glitches in what they report, and checking your backlinks in Yahoo is pretty much a waste of time.
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  • Profile picture of the author ankushkohli
    Really long thread but interesting to read this.
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  • Profile picture of the author Newyork204
    Hey man,

    Just wanted to say I really like what you are doing. I love concrete data and there is not enough of it in the Internet marketing world. Keep up the good work. The only problem with hard data is black hat artists then exploit it sooner or later and then its worthless because Google has to yet again change their algorithm. But nevertheless I think what you are doing is fantastic!
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  • Profile picture of the author ElectroArticles
    I've seen alot of SEO case studies before, but i don't think i've ever seen a case study involving different services - It's usually manual link building with xrumer or scrapebox blasts thrown in.
    Going to keep an eye on this, good luck!
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  • Profile picture of the author OneManSEO
    This post helped me decide which network to try out. BMR has made my life easier and worth the hefty price IMO. It cut into my margin, but it also allowed me to double the number of SEO contracts I can handle...

    Electron Plumber...thank you for increasing my cash flow.
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  • Profile picture of the author webmaster1742
    It's very interesting and informative.
    Hope it will be helpful for everyone.
    Thank you very much.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ryan79
    Did you get any article on buildmyrank network not indexed yet?
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    • Profile picture of the author Jaysmyne
      Hey There!

      I must say, I read this thread with great interest. I've got a site - that I've been quite litterally spending hours upon hours building and manipulating only to have it continously stuck at the bottom of page #1 for my primary keyword term. I've been looking for a boost in the SERPs and using my outsourced team I think I'm going to go ahead and train them to use "BuildMyRank" I'm excited to see how my own personal experiment turns out. Because, I can see huge profits in the near future if sites start to rank properly.

      Jaysmyne AKA Danielle
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    • Profile picture of the author ElectronPlumber
      Originally Posted by Ryan79 View Post

      Did you get any article on buildmyrank network not indexed yet?
      So far everything on the BMR site everything is listed as "indexed" and I do believe that it was when the checked it.

      However, probably around half are no longer indexed when I actually check in Google. It would appear that once they get pushed off the first or second page of the BMR site the likely drop out of the index.

      I'm forming a technique where I use all four of the current services I'm testing to back link each other and see if the indexing and back link counts rise. That might be experiment #3 or #4 after this one.
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      • Profile picture of the author jimkirk1943
        Originally Posted by ElectronPlumber View Post


        However, probably around half are no longer indexed when I actually check in Google. It would appear that once they get pushed off the first or second page of the BMR site the likely drop out of the index.
        Well that does`nt sound very good does that mean that once the article is off the first couple of pages the PR and the juice passed down disappear completely ??
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        • Profile picture of the author ElectronPlumber
          Originally Posted by jimkirk1943 View Post

          Well that does`nt sound very good does that mean that once the article is off the first couple of pages the PR and the juice passed down disappear completely ??
          I just checked all 52 of the articles I've posted to BMR. 11 of them are no longer indexed. So that's around a 20% fallout rate. Note that only about 32 of those are for this experiment. Oddly enough, all the ones I posted in February and early March are indexed, then the later March and April ones have fallout. May ones are indexed.

          So does that mean they are gone for good? Or they might pop back into the index as Google discovers the backlinks to them? If I hear from anyone at BMR about it, I'll let you guys know.
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          • Profile picture of the author yc.ng
            Thanks for the sharing. My BMR fallout rate is around 10% over 3 months, 500 posts+.

            By using only BMR is insufficient to maintain a ranking. Suggest to include UAW and AR, plus web 2.0 & .edu properties.
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      • Profile picture of the author Heavenstorm
        Originally Posted by ElectronPlumber View Post

        So far everything on the BMR site everything is listed as "indexed" and I do believe that it was when the checked it.

        However, probably around half are no longer indexed when I actually check in Google. It would appear that once they get pushed off the first or second page of the BMR site the likely drop out of the index.

        I'm forming a technique where I use all four of the current services I'm testing to back link each other and see if the indexing and back link counts rise. That might be experiment #3 or #4 after this one.
        Hi electronplumber,

        i am following your thread closely as I am using BMR myself too...got a little worried when you mention your posts were deindexed. I checked most of my posts from last month and almost all are still indexed though.. not sure why yours got deindexed
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  • Profile picture of the author dagaul101
    Nice experiment, I know many people will be impatient with a 6 months delay, but it will give you a truer picture as to which service to stick by
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    • Profile picture of the author ElectronPlumber
      Originally Posted by dagaul101 View Post

      Nice experiment, I know many people will be impatient with a 6 months delay, but it will give you a truer picture as to which service to stick by
      Thanks dagaul101! Seeing at how these sites were all ranked using each service makes me think that all 4 can hit page 1 or 2 in the 6 month time frame. Time will tell!
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      • Profile picture of the author Bozigian
        Ok, maybe people can help me

        for website buildmyrank, i look at website

        i dont understand.
        if i get 59$ month package, what they do to my website?

        if i have website page 1 google, and use 59month package, will that keep website page 1?
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  • Profile picture of the author scottuga44
    If I sign up for BMR, would I need any other form of backlinking. I know it depends on niche, but lets say your average micro niche that isnt very competitive.
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    • Profile picture of the author OneManSEO
      Originally Posted by scottuga44 View Post

      If I sign up for BMR, would I need any other form of backlinking. I know it depends on niche, but lets say your average micro niche that isnt very competitive.
      If you were a collector of priceless eggs, would you put them all in one basket for safe keeping?
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  • Profile picture of the author akira07
    I've joined to BMR since 15 days ago (taking trial) and satisfied with it.
    My website ranked up from page 10 to page 4 with only 10 articles (outsourcing to BMR)
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  • Profile picture of the author Jaysmyne
    I just wanted to check back and say I signed up for BMR and I'm quite please with the results one of my keywords jumped 19 spots on google from the bottom of page 4 or 5 to the bottom of page 2. Which is exciting! My main keyword hasn't improved any but soon as the G recognizes it I'm hoping I move up the listings. I've been struggling at the bottom of page one for one of my main keywords....So I'm hoping this helps break my plateau so to speak.
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  • Profile picture of the author yuxx109
    I've read your detailed Experiment report of these link building services. I have two questions to ask.
    1. How many post did you post for one site everyday on Build My Rank?
    2. Have you BMR site ever droped the rank from top postions to 200+?
    I purchased an aged domain and build a review site in the past two weeks. All are 800 words high quality orignal articles. After 25 post to BMR service in one week, all the inner page rankings droped from top 50 to nearly 1000 position of google. I post 2-3 post everyday. I didn't alter the anchor text of the link and I only build links to one inner page.
    How to get my site back? Can you give me some suggestion? thanks.
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    • Profile picture of the author ElectronPlumber
      Originally Posted by scottuga44 View Post

      If I sign up for BMR, would I need any other form of backlinking. I know it depends on niche, but lets say your average micro niche that isnt very competitive.
      Originally Posted by OneManSEO View Post

      If you were a collector of priceless eggs, would you put them all in one basket for safe keeping?
      Exactly. I am using all these services by themselves each on one site so I can more accurately judge and compare them. I would NOT suggest this as your only SEO strategy for a site.

      Originally Posted by yuxx109 View Post

      I've read your detailed Experiment report of these link building services. I have two questions to ask.
      1. How many post did you post for one site everyday on Build My Rank?
      2. Have you BMR site ever droped the rank from top postions to 200+?
      I purchased an aged domain and build a review site in the past two weeks. All are 800 words high quality orignal articles. After 25 post to BMR service in one week, all the inner page rankings droped from top 50 to nearly 1000 position of google. I post 2-3 post everyday. I didn't alter the anchor text of the link and I only build links to one inner page.
      How to get my site back? Can you give me some suggestion? thanks.
      1. For the site that is ranking #3, I have posted a total of 32 articles to BMR. It was in 4 groups of 8 articles, over the course of about 6 weeks.
      2. Nope, my sites are now almost 10 weeks old and the BMR site is still sitting pretty at position #3. I don't know enough about your site, would you be willing to post it? Most likely you have lost old backlinks to that aged domain. So when you bought it you probably had old backlinks to subpages that you then removed. It takes a while for Google to catch up, so your site probably had that link power for a few weeks and now it's gone. Either that or you've been deindexed for some reason or have a manual penalty. Check out the FAQ I wrote on reasons for losing rankings at: http://www.warriorforum.com/adsense-...deindexed.html
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  • Profile picture of the author rvrabel2002
    Hey Electron Plumber,
    Great thread, Ive been following for several weeks. I personally was debating between linkvana and BMR for a couple of weeks (this was back in January) and chose BMR well before I ever came across this thread. Glad I did that, it seems to be ahead of the game!

    Anyway, I had a quick question about your technique, how long are your BMR posts?

    I have about 100+ posts so far and about 95% of them are 150 words each (or so). But i'm wondering if your strategy involves posting longer article type posts, or just sticking with short ones. Let me know, thanks.

    Rob
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    • Profile picture of the author retsek
      Originally Posted by rvrabel2002 View Post

      Hey Electron Plumber,
      Great thread, Ive been following for several weeks. I personally was debating between linkvana and BMR for a couple of weeks (this was back in January) and chose BMR well before I ever came across this thread. Glad I did that, it seems to be ahead of the game!

      Anyway, I had a quick question about your technique, how long are your BMR posts?

      I have about 100+ posts so far and about 95% of them are 150 words each (or so). But i'm wondering if your strategy involves posting longer article type posts, or just sticking with short ones. Let me know, thanks.

      Rob
      I would also like to know this.

      I've been posting mostly 200 word articles. But sometimes I do 350 and link to the homepage and an internal page in one article. Any thoughts on that technique.

      It's really hard to track my results with BMR, because the sites I'm working on right now all have varied link sources. (profiles, blog comments, article directory, high pr homepage links, sitewide links, social bookmarks). and everything is on scheduled RSS/pings through Linklicious for the next two months.
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      • Profile picture of the author heavysm
        I have used BMR for about 5 of my sites ranging from low to high competition keywords and I definitely recommend only 150 words per article submission. I have experimented with 300-600 word submissions and 150 per post is no doubt the most effective.

        I personally do not use BMR to get directly to page one. It can easily get you to the top of page 2 but going onto page one often requires other methods: blog comments, articles syndication/directory submissions, etc.

        When i first tested BMR i hit my highest competition site with 10 posts per day for about two and a half weeks. This got me bouncing between #11 and #6. I had over 170 posts for my one keyword and i got no farther than #6, and it quickly went back to #11 when i lowered posts to 5 daily.

        I strongly suggest BMR if you can't get your site within the second page. Thereafter you should employ other methods depending on your competition.
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  • Profile picture of the author miker501
    I've read this with great interest. I have recently started using BMR, but hell, writing all those blurbs is hard work. I was trying to do 50 per day (10 for each domain) but am down to 30 or so. How long does it take to see a movement in the serps on average?

    I outsourced some to, what turns out to be a great gig on FIVERR. Perfect grammar and really well written. Thought I'd share it.

    4 x 150 word BMR posts for a fiverr

    I'll report back on my rankings as time goes on.

    Cheers
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    • Profile picture of the author roomservice
      Originally Posted by miker501 View Post

      I've read this with great interest. I have recently started using BMR, but hell, writing all those blurbs is hard work. I was trying to do 50 per day (10 for each domain) but am down to 30 or so. How long does it take to see a movement in the serps on average?

      I outsourced some to, what turns out to be a great gig on FIVERR. Perfect grammar and really well written. Thought I'd share it.

      4 x 150 word BMR posts for a fiverr

      I'll report back on my rankings as time goes on.

      Cheers

      Better find one writer to do 100 posts.
      It's far too much hassle to outsourse such stuff on fiverr.

      I have now working 5 writers for me; they all write 100 posts for $50
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      • Profile picture of the author miker501
        Originally Posted by roomservice View Post

        Better find one writer to do 100 posts.
        It's far too much hassle to outsourse such stuff on fiverr.

        I have now working 5 writers for me; they all write 100 posts for $50
        I guess so, but I have used a number of writers who can't seem to put a sentence together. I admit to using a few non native speakers too, and the grammar just doesn't work.

        Fiverr is a bit of a hassle, but at least I can get good quality posts that will pass first time. BMR charge $2.50 per post, others on this WF want $1.50. This guy is charging $1.25 for great work.

        I might ask him for a discount for 50 posts or something. Good writers are hard to find so when I find one, I want to use them!!!
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  • Profile picture of the author JoeMack
    Hi...

    Wow, this is probably one of the best detailed, best documented, and best updated "experiment" that I have seen posted on the Warrior Forum (and I have seen many over the years).

    Thank you for taking the time and effort to conduct the experiment and share it on the forum. Great educational tool for everyone here.

    JoeMack
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  • Profile picture of the author HappyHourInfo
    Very interesting thread...I will add BMR to my SEO arsenal.
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  • Profile picture of the author Brandomatic
    Great thread. I like this experiment. Seems like BMR is useful, will check it out.
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  • Profile picture of the author wtktg1
    Any updates? I had also subscribe to BMR recently
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  • Profile picture of the author retsek
    This is my second week with BMR for two medium competition sites.

    Both have 50 articles each, split between the main keyword/homepage and subpages. I've been blasting the links that get indexed with about 500 profile links each drip feed 30 per day through linklicous.

    So far, the sites haven't budged.
    I'll keep at it though.
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  • Profile picture of the author sojibrahman
    what a great experiment for backlink.I very much like it.No wi bookmark this page and i also experiment about that
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  • Profile picture of the author 2d0k
    An outstanding thread. I just subscribed from BMR and hoping for positive results. It's a good thing that this thread is up..

    Any updates?
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    Hasta La Victoria Siempre!

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  • Profile picture of the author milton11011
    just read all of these. thanks man. this is gonna save me a ton
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    Just starting off my attempt at internet marketing. First venture is a teeth whitening site that I'm trying to monetize. Always appreciate feedback.
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  • Profile picture of the author Apollo-Articles
    Hi There,

    Out of interest how many articles do you publish a day via Build my rank?

    And how would you change that for new sites?

    Thanks,

    Sam
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    • Profile picture of the author rinor81
      I try to build a link a day for any keyword at first so it wouldn't look like a blast...how are other doing with the service? Do you see it helping you?

      No updates yet?

      I check this thread daily and still the same...would love to hear more news...

      Good Luck all,
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  • Profile picture of the author NicheSiteAWeek
    I can see why BMR tops the list .. un-spun unique content dripped over multiple class C blocks do work.. if you dont mind answering, how many unique posts did you make using BMR? Also were you just making 150 worded blurbs or used more words?
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    Free Private Blog Network Links for Testimonials! <= PM me
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  • Profile picture of the author Tizzko
    How much is BMR paying you to do this "study" ?
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    • Profile picture of the author ElectronPlumber
      Originally Posted by Tizzko View Post

      How much is BMR paying you to do this "study" ?
      Interesting comment from a two month old account with no thanks and only 17 posts. :rolleyes:

      Honestly, I could care less which service "wins" here. BMR is actually the biggest pain in the ass since it requires unique content constantly, while LinkAloha is the least work of all of them. UAW and 1WayLinks are actually really great because they can use spun content which is far cheaper to produce. What I hope is that all 4 of them win which means I make money on four of my sites.

      No one paid me anything to do this experiment. Go check out my website and other posts on this forum. I'm probably one of 10 honest internet marketers you'll find out of the tens of thousands out there. Seriously. HOWEVER, much like 100% of the other people on the forum, I'm still trying to make money.

      I think you can be totally completely honest and actually make money as an Internet marketer. So far, so good.

      About 75% of my total online profits come from the Amazon affiliate program. I use SEO and honest reviews to match real people with real products they are looking for and make money at it. I like Amazon because there is no crap. People buy the product from Amazon and if they don't like it they can send it back. No scammy ebooks, no special "programs", no hidden rebills. Real world hard products.

      This experiment is 100% on the up and up. I am NOT and have never been in contact with anyone who works for the four services profiled here. Nor do I ever plan to.

      That all being said, you think I'd put all this work into an experiment and share such a level of detail here on WF and not try to make money on it?

      From the affiliate links on my website over the past 4 months I have received around $250 from BMR, $150 from Link Aloha, $100 from 1WayLinks, and not a darn thing from UAW ( I should probably check my affiliate link and make sure it's working!). That's all in affiliate commissions from people who clicked through my website and bought the services I'm working with here, no special kickbacks. Compare that with the $800 I've shelled out on these services so far.

      My goals with this experiment are as follows:
      1. Earn at least $1000 monthly total from Amazon and Adsense with the five websites I'm promoting with these services if not more. After the six months are up, I'll start cross linking and it appears I can place all five sites on Page 1 for my main keyword and at least 1 site on Page 1 for a much harder keyword. After that, I'll create a site going for that much harder keyword and point backlinks from all five of these sites at it and see if I can double or triple the monthly earnings.
      2. Earn affiliate commissions with the four services such that they pay for themselves on an ongoing basis. At some point after the six months are up, I'm going to write a full review of all the services at my site, backlink those reviews and hope to continue earning from them for years to come.
      3. Earn traffic to my site and have some good percentage that likes what I write, subscribe, and return regularly which will earn me advertising dollars. I'll only do this by creating great useful sharable content or else people won't bother, right?
      So far, I'm well on my way to accomplishing all three. All without tricking anyone and by being perfectly honest.

      Does that answer your question Tizzko?
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      • Profile picture of the author Tizzko
        Originally Posted by ElectronPlumber View Post

        Does that answer your question Tizzko?
        Yes it does, thank you. I've read some of your other posts and appreciate what you have to say. My comment was more tongue in cheek than anything. I just have to tell you that I'm really shocked that BMR is outperforming the others by such a large margin. I knew it was a solid service, but I wasn't expecting by this much.. which is where my comment above was generated from.
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  • Profile picture of the author dirtyhair
    yeah good call man. great post here
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    • Profile picture of the author pr0n1x
      how many articles you send to BMR? thanks
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      • Profile picture of the author yoshi74
        Hi, firstly great post! Interesting to read. Thought I would add my two cents to let you know how I got on with BMR.

        I've used for about 8 months across a range of sites, range of keywords, niches, etc.

        I really like the concept as I don't particularly like spinning and for me it offers a way of getting links submitted in neat packets (5 or 10 at a time) and is a process where you can just sit down every day or so and churn out 10-20 links a day which are highly focused on your keywords.

        However... I totally agree with some of the previous posters that you will struggle to get to the top of page one with BMR alone.

        The effectiveness of the links seems to have dropped off in the period I've used the service. Now this isn't to blame BMR; it's probably more a result of Google changes in recent months. Nevertheless, in isolation, its not quite the force it was once.

        My analagy would be that BMR operates a bit like a balloon with a hole in it. You will see initial results quickly, but upping your efforts will only take you so far. And of course when you reduce your efforts, the effects start to diminish.

        While their indexing rates are high, when a post does get deindexed then a greater proportion of your link juice goes. So for example, if you suddenly lose 2 links when you have only submitted 10, then you are 'down' 20% power- and of course the power that BMR links seem to give maybe makes this seem to have a more disproportional drop on your SERPS (possibly?).

        My personal approach now is to use BMR as a quick way to get a page indexed and noticed by Google in the first instance. I then start to introduce other services and methods to move up the rankings.

        Maybe its just my personal experience but I've tended to find that around 10-20 posts is probably the best time investment/ return. For quite a number of terms this has got me the best movement - where I've gone above this figures the movement in the SERPs doesn't seem as strong. In one instance I've put in around 100 posts but haven't ranked higher than I did with the initial 10.

        Also bear in mind that this is a fairly labour intensive tool (or expensive) when you start to use it on a number of sites.

        Now having said that, you can still get good results from a handful of posts, especially on lower competition keywords which is why I still like the service.

        I think that going forwards you have to have more link diversity to rank well in Google. So while BMR should be in your arsenal I think you are going to need more for long term high rankings.

        What would have been really interesting for this experiment would have been if one of the test sites made use of all services. Maybe one for the future?
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        • Profile picture of the author colecov
          Originally Posted by yoshi74 View Post

          Hi, firstly great post! Interesting to read. Thought I would add my two cents to let you know how I got on with BMR.

          I've used for about 8 months across a range of sites, range of keywords, niches, etc.

          I really like the concept as I don't particularly like spinning and for me it offers a way of getting links submitted in neat packets (5 or 10 at a time) and is a process where you can just sit down every day or so and churn out 10-20 links a day which are highly focused on your keywords.

          However... I totally agree with some of the previous posters that you will struggle to get to the top of page one with BMR alone.

          The effectiveness of the links seems to have dropped off in the period I've used the service. Now this isn't to blame BMR; it's probably more a result of Google changes in recent months. Nevertheless, in isolation, its not quite the force it was once.

          My analagy would be that BMR operates a bit like a balloon with a hole in it. You will see initial results quickly, but upping your efforts will only take you so far. And of course when you reduce your efforts, the effects start to diminish.

          While their indexing rates are high, when a post does get deindexed then a greater proportion of your link juice goes. So for example, if you suddenly lose 2 links when you have only submitted 10, then you are 'down' 20% power- and of course the power that BMR links seem to give maybe makes this seem to have a more disproportional drop on your SERPS (possibly?).

          My personal approach now is to use BMR as a quick way to get a page indexed and noticed by Google in the first instance. I then start to introduce other services and methods to move up the rankings.

          Maybe its just my personal experience but I've tended to find that around 10-20 posts is probably the best time investment/ return. For quite a number of terms this has got me the best movement - where I've gone above this figures the movement in the SERPs doesn't seem as strong. In one instance I've put in around 100 posts but haven't ranked higher than I did with the initial 10.

          Also bear in mind that this is a fairly labour intensive tool (or expensive) when you start to use it on a number of sites.

          Now having said that, you can still get good results from a handful of posts, especially on lower competition keywords which is why I still like the service.

          I think that going forwards you have to have more link diversity to rank well in Google. So while BMR should be in your arsenal I think you are going to need more for long term high rankings.

          What would have been really interesting for this experiment would have been if one of the test sites made use of all services. Maybe one for the future?
          Thanks for taking the time to write this. Part of my SEO strategy is for every new site I create, I do 10 BMR posts for it (along with a bunch of other link building methods). I was just questioning whether or not I should be grinding out 10 posts per day on each site or whatever. I'm glad I read this because it is a lot of work and I'm just going to keep sticking to my original plan!

          By the way, a site that used all the services would have been an awesome idea for this experiment!
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          • What a truly amazing post! This stuff is golden. You will honestly search high and low to find this kind of experiment online done honestly.

            One question I have though for you, roughly how many BMR posts did you submit for the domain? I see they allow 10 per day. Did you make use of this, or did you just submit 1 or 2 a day which amounted to about 50 a month.

            I'd be interested in testing BMR by outsourcing it as you suggest, but would be interested to know what pace to ask my contractor to submit links at.

            Thanks in advance.
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            • Profile picture of the author ElectronPlumber
              Originally Posted by TBInternetMarketing View Post

              What a truly amazing post! This stuff is golden. You will honestly search high and low to find this kind of experiment online done honestly.

              One question I have though for you, roughly how many BMR posts did you submit for the domain? I see they allow 10 per day. Did you make use of this, or did you just submit 1 or 2 a day which amounted to about 50 a month.

              I'd be interested in testing BMR by outsourcing it as you suggest, but would be interested to know what pace to ask my contractor to submit links at.

              Thanks in advance.
              Thanks TB! Glad you find the info useful. Every once in a while I think to myself "...I could make a lot more money every month if I just picked one of these five sites and pointed all the services at it, flipped it, repeated with the second site..." but then I wouldn't be learning anything about what really affects ranking and what doesn't. The traffic and subscribers on my site has jumped over the past few months as well. Plus all the great people and connections I've met here at WF so it's totally worth the effort.

              I'm already setting up my next experiment to put all the duplicate vs spun vs unique content arguments to bed once and for all.

              I have not taken full advantage of the 10 posts per domain per day limit on BMR at all. In fact, a number of people have agreed that after the first 30-50 posts, they don't see much extra benefit.

              Here is my EXACT post count with BMR so far:

              8 on 2/20/2011
              8 on 3/7/2011
              8 on 3/17/2011
              8 on 4/2/2011
              10 on 5/29/2011 targeting my main keyword
              20 on 6/1/2011 targeting two sub-keywords
              10 on 6/11/2011 magic trick to climb out of the SANDBOX!

              Yeah, that's right, the home page and two sub pages I targeted on the BMR site disappeared from the Google index completely on 6/3/2011, right after throwing 30 posts at it.

              It's back at position 3 as of 6/13/2011 after throwing 10 "special" BMR posts at it.

              Coincidence? Maybe, but only the three pages I'd been targeting with keyword links were deindexed for that week. I'm pretty darn sure it was the sudden jump in link building. I've never been one to believe in any sort of "sandbox" but after seeing it first hand, I think there is a unnatural link penalty at work in the Google algorithm and my BMR site AND LinkAloha sites ran head first into it. It's really hard to say for sure without more testing.

              The LinkAloha home page is also deindexed right now, but I haven't made any effort to get it out yet like I did the BMR site. More details on exactly what happened when I post the next update, hopefully I'll have it finished tonight or tomorrow.

              Stay tuned!
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              • Profile picture of the author markowe
                Originally Posted by ElectronPlumber View Post

                I'm already setting up my next experiment to put all the duplicate vs spun vs unique content arguments to bed once and for all.
                Now THAT I will be very interested to hear. I have my own circumstantial evidence, but I haven't really been able to split-test anything. I know which result I want to hear - that "spinning" is a complete red herring and a waste of time. I hate spinning with a passion, and if I can avoid it I would be very very pleased! (I have got SOME results in a low-competition niche without spinning, but others are proving trickier).

                The good thing is that even if you come to the conclusion that spinning is pointless, no-one will believe you anyway, because it is such an ingrained belief among SEOers. But I would nod knowingly...

                If spinning DOES make a difference, well, I guess I'll just have to join the ranks of people filling the Net with crap. Or look for other ways...
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                Who says you can't earn money as an eBay affiliate any more? My stats say otherwise

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              • Originally Posted by ElectronPlumber View Post

                Here is my EXACT post count with BMR so far:

                8 on 2/20/2011
                8 on 3/7/2011
                8 on 3/17/2011
                8 on 4/2/2011
                10 on 5/29/2011 targeting my main keyword
                20 on 6/1/2011 targeting two sub-keywords
                10 on 6/11/2011 magic trick to climb out of the SANDBOX!
                Wow, I'm amazed how few posts you actually made. I was thinking it would be at least 50 a month if not more.
                Just looking at your linking pattern, I wonder if perhaps what got you penalized was the 30 links in 2 days after no activity for almost 2 months (From 2nd April - 29th May).

                Thanks
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                • Profile picture of the author ElectronPlumber
                  Originally Posted by TBInternetMarketing View Post

                  Wow, I'm amazed how few posts you actually made. I was thinking it would be at least 50 a month if not more.
                  Just looking at your linking pattern, I wonder if perhaps what got you penalized was the 30 links in 2 days after no activity for almost 2 months (From 2nd April - 29th May).

                  Thanks
                  While it is certainly possible, the LinkAloha site was hit at about the same time, but the UAW and 1WayLinks sites were not.

                  I strongly suspect it's more due to the unnatural linking pattern with the sites more than anything else and those last 10 BMR articles that brought it back to life were to counteract that linking pattern.
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              • Profile picture of the author mytoy78
                Originally Posted by ElectronPlumber View Post

                Thanks TB! Glad you find the info useful. Every once in a while I think to myself "...I could make a lot more money every month if I just picked one of these five sites and pointed all the services at it, flipped it, repeated with the second site..." but then I wouldn't be learning anything about what really affects ranking and what doesn't. The traffic and subscribers on my site has jumped over the past few months as well. Plus all the great people and connections I've met here at WF so it's totally worth the effort.

                I'm already setting up my next experiment to put all the duplicate vs spun vs unique content arguments to bed once and for all.

                I have not taken full advantage of the 10 posts per domain per day limit on BMR at all. In fact, a number of people have agreed that after the first 30-50 posts, they don't see much extra benefit.

                Here is my EXACT post count with BMR so far:

                8 on 2/20/2011
                8 on 3/7/2011
                8 on 3/17/2011
                8 on 4/2/2011
                10 on 5/29/2011 targeting my main keyword
                20 on 6/1/2011 targeting two sub-keywords
                10 on 6/11/2011 magic trick to climb out of the SANDBOX!

                Yeah, that's right, the home page and two sub pages I targeted on the BMR site disappeared from the Google index completely on 6/3/2011, right after throwing 30 posts at it.

                It's back at position 3 as of 6/13/2011 after throwing 10 "special" BMR posts at it.

                Coincidence? Maybe, but only the three pages I'd been targeting with keyword links were deindexed for that week. I'm pretty darn sure it was the sudden jump in link building. I've never been one to believe in any sort of "sandbox" but after seeing it first hand, I think there is a unnatural link penalty at work in the Google algorithm and my BMR site AND LinkAloha sites ran head first into it. It's really hard to say for sure without more testing.

                The LinkAloha home page is also deindexed right now, but I haven't made any effort to get it out yet like I did the BMR site. More details on exactly what happened when I post the next update, hopefully I'll have it finished tonight or tomorrow.

                Stay tuned!


                Hey there Matey,

                I'm intrigued...What is your 'special' BMR post technique? I thought I was failry well versed in all things 'BMR', but you have suitably piqued my curiosity with this one...

                I wait with baited breath

                Many thanks

                Colni
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                • Profile picture of the author JB777
                  Originally Posted by mytoy78 View Post

                  Hey there Matey,

                  I'm intrigued...What is your 'special' BMR post technique? I thought I was failry well versed in all things 'BMR', but you have suitably piqued my curiosity with this one...

                  I wait with baited breath

                  Many thanks

                  Colni
                  Perhaps instead of linking one single keyword or phrase he needed to link other pages with other keywords and phrases, sort of a market correction. Part of a good backlink strategy is diversification (deep linking). Need to keep things looking natural.
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                  • Profile picture of the author mytoy78
                    Originally Posted by JB777 View Post

                    Perhaps instead of linking one single keyword or phrase he needed to link other pages with other keywords and phrases, sort of a market correction. Part of a good backlink strategy is diversification (deep linking). Need to keep things looking natural.
                    I agree, and on that note, it is worth being aware that 'Build My Rank' isn't the silver bullet that some people's hype would have you believe. It is however a very important part in my seo strategy, but you should take advantage of other link building opportunities as well. I'm having great results with a recent WSO on using software submission to create Backlinks!

                    Colin Armour
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                    • Profile picture of the author carp104
                      Hey ElectronPlumber,

                      Have you built any backlinks to your BMR backlinks, or are you simply doing only BMR straight to your sites?
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                • Profile picture of the author ElectronPlumber
                  Originally Posted by mytoy78 View Post

                  Hey there Matey,

                  I'm intrigued...What is your 'special' BMR post technique? I thought I was failry well versed in all things 'BMR', but you have suitably piqued my curiosity with this one...

                  I wait with baited breath

                  Many thanks

                  Colni
                  Hey, I gotta save SOME secret tricks for a WSO at the end of this experiment right?

                  Nah, screw that. I'm not that kind of guy. I'll include it in this new update!

                  Week 13/14/15 Update:

                  The BuildMyRank Site: Google Rank 3
                  The UniqueArticleWizard Site: Google Rank 12
                  The 1WayLinks Site: Google Rank 22
                  The LinkAloha Site: Google Rank 200+ (In the Sandbox)
                  The My Own SEO Site: Google Rank 200+

                  A number of people have commented here that they had a site "sandboxed" by using BMR on a new site or right after making a huge backlink blast to a site. And an equal number of people who say that there is no such thing as a "sandbox".

                  Matt Cutts has stated openly that people think there is a sandbox because there are some things in their algorithm that would lead to a "sandbox like effect".

                  Google engineers aren't stupid. But luckily for us, their hands are somewhat tied in this battle. They can't make wholesale changes that would severely impact the existing ability for Google to provide relevant high quality search results. They don't want to "sandbox" the next peopleofwalmart.com or icanhazcheezeburger.com because they go viral.

                  Based on my experiment, I think that the problem has everything to do with the quality of your Link Profile. It's about link text keyword stuffing and almost nothing do to with low quality links vs high quality links.

                  If a certain high percentage of your links are for the same keyword for a certain amount of time without enough corresponding junk keyword links that page is penalized almost to 0. This is the "Oh No! I built a ton of links and now I'm in the SANDBOX!" moment.

                  Google will keep that page at the very bottom of the index until the link profile rebalances itself ("I kept building links and now I'm out of the sandbox!" or "I waited three months and kept posting and not I'm out of the sandbox!"). From what I saw, I'd bet that duplicate content plays a big part as well.

                  I actually left the LinkAloha site in the same state for the past month. I plan on hitting it with the same link profile fixing technique this week and seeing if I can duplicate the recovery.

                  I wrote up all the details and data on what I saw and how I climbed out of the so called Sandbox for my BMR site. It's waaaaaaaay to long to post here (over 1000 words), but if you want to know exactly happened and how I climbed out of the sandbox I posted it here: My Site Was Sandboxed And How I Climbed Out Of It
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                  • Originally Posted by ElectronPlumber View Post


                    The BuildMyRank Site: Google Rank 3
                    The UniqueArticleWizard Site: Google Rank 12
                    The 1WayLinks Site: Google Rank 22
                    The LinkAloha Site: Google Rank 200+ (In the Sandbox)
                    The My Own SEO Site: Google Rank 200+
                    Still loving this thread.
                    Could you tell us how many backlinks are showing in Yahoo Explorer for the UAW site? I'd be quite interested to know how many of these actually show up and get indexed in the end out of the number you have submitted. I've used some other article submission tools and it's all very well submitting your articles to hundreds of directories, but with the ones I tried not many of them ever got indexed by Google.

                    Thanks
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        • Profile picture of the author ryanjm
          Originally Posted by yoshi74 View Post


          Maybe its just my personal experience but I've tended to find that around 10-20 posts is probably the best time investment/ return. For quite a number of terms this has got me the best movement - where I've gone above this figures the movement in the SERPs doesn't seem as strong. In one instance I've put in around 100 posts but haven't ranked higher than I did with the initial 10.
          Confirmed. I have over 1,000 posts in the system and I've seen this effect over and over for all of my sites that I've used BMR on. I started a thread about it in another forum several months ago and dozens of others reported the same thing. Anything over 15 posts or so will have just about zero effect on your rankings.

          This is a great service to use on a lot of sites for a month or so, but after that you're just spinning your wheels.
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  • Profile picture of the author Teacherman
    Absolutely great little experiment! So the end result is that BMR may actually be worth the monthly fee. Has anyone done a comparison between BMR and the Authority Link Network?
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  • Profile picture of the author oh2534
    I am so impressed
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    • Profile picture of the author eastonmaxx
      So do we get the next "weekly" update soon? I think my mouse is wearing out from clicking refresh on Electron Plumber too much

      I started using Link Aloha a week and a half ago on a site that I hadn't worked on in almost 2 years, went from 4th page of google to 3rd page after a few days, im pretty happy with the jump and hope to see it go farther up the SERPs

      Now back to refreshing your webpage! :p
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  • Profile picture of the author atrbiz
    BMR is definitely the best blog network I've used! In regards to the article writing, I'm currently getting BMR posts for only $.75-$1.00/150 word post
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    • Profile picture of the author WhosGotMoves
      Originally Posted by atrbiz View Post

      BMR is definitely the best blog network I've used! In regards to the article writing, I'm currently getting BMR posts for only $.75-$1.00/150 word post
      Any chance you can share where you outsource this service to? Or even PM? Great price IMO..
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      • Profile picture of the author ElectronPlumber
        After a month with no real updates it's about time! I really wanted to start link building again with these services before posting the next update but other projects got in the way unfortunately and here we are.

        But today is a new day and I have finally submitted the next set of articles and links to the four services in question so we should be seeing some more movement here in the next update.

        With a two month break from link building I would have expected more of a ranking drop at this point, but most services seem to be holding their own or even improving.

        I've started tracking a couple of the keywords I've built sub-pages for on each site. Almost all four service sites are ranking for most of these keywords, despite not having any link building done specifically for them. Seems that they are ranking based on the strength of the internal links off my main pages. Probably no surprise to note that the BMR site is in the lead for those as well, but the other services are holding their own too.

        It's REALLY important to note that while BMR has been the leader here since pretty much day one, it IS MORE WORK and thus technically a "higher cost" than the other services.

        For example, where 1WayLinks costs $47 a month it only take a few hours to write and spin a decent post to make hundreds of links. Doing the same with BMR takes 3-4x the time in writing unique articles or paying someone else to do it.

        For the most part, in terms of cost being approx equal each month it's the effort amount that puts the services right where I would expect. BMR is the most work and doing the best. UAW and 1WayLinks are less effort and doing well but not as well as BMR. LinkAloha is by far the least effort by a WIDE margin, but isn't doing as well as the other three. But the nice thing to see is that they are ALL having an ranking effect when compared to site #5 with little or no links.

        The numbers for weeks 10/11/12:

        The BuildMyRank Site: Google Rank 3
        The 1WayLinks Site: Google Rank 11
        The UniqueArticleWizard Site: Google Rank 19
        The LinkAloha Site: Google Rank 37
        The My Own SEO Site: Google Rank 200+

        More detailed numbers on the sub-pages and other keywords in the full update on my site in my sig, it's too much detail to post here.

        Questions and comments always welcome!
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  • Profile picture of the author nicktyler
    This is a great experiment. I have been thinking about taking the plunge and giving tools like this a go and this really helps with the decision.

    Do you know if BMR only takes English language sites?
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    • Profile picture of the author ChrisWF
      Hi ElectronPlumber

      thanks for all your work and all the Details you give to us.

      Here is a suggestion that helps keep track on all the figures.
      CanĀ“t you put your rankings in one or more Excel charts, do a screenshot from that chart and post it here in the Thread?

      Would be a lot more easier to get an overview on whats going on.


      Thanks again
      Chris
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  • Profile picture of the author nicktyler
    Chris ahs a good idea

    Then you could make pertty graphs over the experiment perion and we could all go "ohh" and "ahh" like at a fireworks display
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    • Profile picture of the author Honest Abel
      ElectronPlumber,

      I want to send you a big thank you for all the time and meticulous effort you are putting into this and for sharing so many extra details. It is much appreciated! I also appreciate your straightforward honest approach.

      I have been wary of trying these automated and semi-automated link services for fear it would erase all my "elbow grease" efforts. I notice you chose to not try this on your established sites. How are you feeling about this now after using these services for several weeks?
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      • Profile picture of the author nicktyler
        Originally Posted by Honest Abel View Post

        ElectronPlumber,

        I want to send you a big thank you for all the time and meticulous effort you are putting into this and for sharing so many extra details. It is much appreciated! I also appreciate your straightforward honest approach.

        I have been wary of trying these automated and semi-automated link services for fear it would erase all my "elbow grease" efforts. I notice you chose to not try this on your established sites. How are you feeling about this now after using these services for several weeks?
        This is the best question yet on this thread. I will be very interested in the answer. I have the same thoughts as Honest Abel.

        I think it needed to be all new sites for control and Electron Plumber at one point mentiones that he did use the programs for his established sites for a while while they were "in season".

        I would be interested to know what peoples thoughts are as the how dark or light is the material to make the hat ElectronPlumber is wearing in this experiment??
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        • Profile picture of the author rinor81
          Originally Posted by nicktyler View Post

          This is the best question yet on this thread. I will be very interested in the answer. I have the same thoughts as Honest Abel.

          I think it needed to be all new sites for control and Electron Plumber at one point mentiones that he did use the programs for his established sites for a while while they were "in season".

          I would be interested to know what peoples thoughts are as the how dark or light is the material to make the hat ElectronPlumber is wearing in this experiment??
          I think it's a one size fits all hat...

          We're not doing anything illegal here and we basically put links in high PR blogs, so what's the problem?

          Building links manually will take ages and more and still you're not sure it will help. This is a day by day help for link building so it's a great service I enjoy using.

          I am sick and tired of Google changes the rules every Monday or Thursday just because he wishes, forgetting it was us, the affiliate and the small sites that helped him grow and beat Yahoo...
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          • Profile picture of the author Honest Abel
            I can't help but try to view this from Google's perspective (don't you know they are reading this thread with great interest!). You would think they'd be actively trying to figure out a way to at least ignore links (if not demote or ban sites) that are generated from spun content so I would be really hesitant still to use 1WayLinks and Unique Article Wizard because of this - even if these haven't been "slapped" already, I fully expect them to be slapped in the future. I also suspect if we took a look at LinkAloha's links, we'd understand why they aren't doing as well - maybe unnatural distribution, maybe unnatural language, whatever - Google seems to have already picked on it somewhat and will likely pick up on it more in the future. Looking at it from Google's perspective, the only one of these services that seems reasonable is BuildMyRank because unique quality controlled content is being produced - although I still worry about such things as lower than average content and an unnatural progression of links. However, I still think BuildMyRank will win out over the others long term in the eyes of Google. BUT.... I'm STILL hesitant to use it on my best sites.

            I employ "white hat" methods, not only because it's the ethical thing to do, but because I personally think white hat methods are more evergreen - and I like evergreen much more than chasing the latest trick. I'd be interested in seeing this experiment continue on in a "vacuum" with only one service per site being used to see how they compare through a couple of major Google updates. THAT would be the ultimate experiment I think. Each site could still be monetized while this was going on.
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            • Profile picture of the author rinor81
              Originally Posted by Honest Abel View Post

              I can't help but try to view this from Google's perspective (don't you know they are reading this thread with great interest!). You would think they'd be actively trying to figure out a way to at least ignore links (if not demote or ban sites) that are generated from spun content so I would be really hesitant still to use 1WayLinks and Unique Article Wizard because of this - even if these haven't been "slapped" already, I fully expect them to be slapped in the future. I also suspect if we took a look at LinkAloha's links, we'd understand why they aren't doing as well - maybe unnatural distribution, maybe unnatural language, whatever - Google seems to have already picked on it somewhat and will likely pick up on it more in the future. Looking at it from Google's perspective, the only one of these services that seems reasonable is BuildMyRank because unique quality controlled content is being produced - although I still worry about such things as lower than average content and an unnatural progression of links. However, I still think BuildMyRank will win out over the others long term in the eyes of Google. BUT.... I'm STILL hesitant to use it on my best sites.

              I employ "white hat" methods, not only because it's the ethical thing to do, but because I personally think white hat methods are more evergreen - and I like evergreen much more than chasing the latest trick. I'd be interested in seeing this experiment continue on in a "vacuum" with only one service per site being used to see how they compare through a couple of major Google updates. THAT would be the ultimate experiment I think. Each site could still be monetized while this was going on.
              If you want your site to stay, you should never use only one link building method. If you use other methods as well as BMR you will show you are diverse and you'll have better chances to progress...of-course quality counts as well but you should always use more methods to show Google you're diverse.
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              • Profile picture of the author Honest Abel
                I completely agree about diversity of method. I also think it's important to be patient and stretch out the "elbow grease" methods over time (let it more naturally progress). I think I will likely try the BMR on some of my sites soon but probably hold off on my best ones until I see how BMR promoted sites fare in the next Google update or two. If they like it, I do too :-) My suspicion is that too much of a good thing may get people whacked (using BMR TOO much) but people who use it at a reasonable level and combine it "elbow grease" methods will improve their rankings with it - I'm thinking long-term when I make this prediction. Of course, I could be wrong :-)

                The other services being tested here just seem too risky to me to apply to even my less important sites.
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            • Profile picture of the author bitriot
              Originally Posted by Honest Abel View Post

              I can't help but try to view this from Google's perspective (don't you know they are reading this thread with great interest!). You would think they'd be actively trying to figure out a way to at least ignore links (if not demote or ban sites) that are generated from spun content so I would be really hesitant still to use 1WayLinks and Unique Article Wizard because of this - even if these haven't been "slapped" already, I fully expect them to be slapped in the future. I also suspect if we took a look at LinkAloha's links, we'd understand why they aren't doing as well - maybe unnatural distribution, maybe unnatural language, whatever - Google seems to have already picked on it somewhat and will likely pick up on it more in the future. Looking at it from Google's perspective, the only one of these services that seems reasonable is BuildMyRank because unique quality controlled content is being produced - although I still worry about such things as lower than average content and an unnatural progression of links. However, I still think BuildMyRank will win out over the others long term in the eyes of Google. BUT.... I'm STILL hesitant to use it on my best sites.

              I employ "white hat" methods, not only because it's the ethical thing to do, but because I personally think white hat methods are more evergreen - and I like evergreen much more than chasing the latest trick. I'd be interested in seeing this experiment continue on in a "vacuum" with only one service per site being used to see how they compare through a couple of major Google updates. THAT would be the ultimate experiment I think. Each site could still be monetized while this was going on.
              I would not lump in article directories with link generating programs. Article directories are more link syndication. Link generating programs are syndication in their own right, but they basically exist just to game google rankings without providing any reciprocal value to google which would make me nervous.
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              • Profile picture of the author Honest Abel
                Originally Posted by bitriot View Post

                I would not lump in article directories with link generating programs. Article directories are more link syndication. Link generating programs are syndication in their own right, but they basically exist just to game google rankings without providing any reciprocal value to google which would make me nervous.
                Article directories? Are you referring to Unique Article Wizard?

                If so, they knowingly accept spun content - black hat in my opinion and definitely not evergreen. I've never seen a spun content ploy that didn't eventually get banned or demoted by Google, as it should IMHO.
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                • Profile picture of the author ElectronPlumber
                  Wow! So many good questions and comments! I'll try to answer a couple at a time and get to all of them eventually. If I miss yours in the pile send me a PM and remind me.

                  Originally Posted by Honest Abel View Post

                  ElectronPlumber,

                  I want to send you a big thank you for all the time and meticulous effort you are putting into this and for sharing so many extra details. It is much appreciated! I also appreciate your straightforward honest approach.

                  I have been wary of trying these automated and semi-automated link services for fear it would erase all my "elbow grease" efforts. I notice you chose to not try this on your established sites. How are you feeling about this now after using these services for several weeks?
                  Originally Posted by nicktyler View Post

                  This is the best question yet on this thread. I will be very interested in the answer. I have the same thoughts as Honest Abel.

                  I think it needed to be all new sites for control and Electron Plumber at one point mentiones that he did use the programs for his established sites for a while while they were "in season".

                  I would be interested to know what peoples thoughts are as the how dark or light is the material to make the hat ElectronPlumber is wearing in this experiment??
                  Originally Posted by rinor81 View Post

                  I think it's a one size fits all hat...

                  We're not doing anything illegal here and we basically put links in high PR blogs, so what's the problem?

                  Building links manually will take ages and more and still you're not sure it will help. This is a day by day help for link building so it's a great service I enjoy using.

                  I am sick and tired of Google changes the rules every Monday or Thursday just because he wishes, forgetting it was us, the affiliate and the small sites that helped him grow and beat Yahoo...
                  I am certainly wearing a Grey Hat here Honest Abel. One can argue that these services are a very small step away from paying for links which is against the Google Terms of Service.

                  The general consensus among SEO experts is that you will not be deindexed or lose rankings by buying or building suspect links since that would make it easy to get your competition deindexed. Don't like whomever is ranking #1 for your favorite keyword? Spam 10,000 profile links then report them to Google and you can take their place. So what can Google do other than not count those links? Very little.

                  Now if these were your only links I'd say that's pretty much the end of your site ranking, so always diversify your links to prevent this.

                  I'm now using these services for the majority of my sites, and seeing some decent ranking jumps for it. I plan to use them to get every new site I start off the ground and into the top of the SERPS, since you kind of need people to find your site before they can link back to you naturally.

                  BUT, I'm also risk adverse. I won't use any of these services on my first and oldest site. It now ranks on the first page of Google for somewhere around 20 darn good keywords and hundreds if not thousands of other long tail keywords, all 100% using White Hat painfully slow link building methods over the past three years. I can point a couple sidebar links on that site at any new site I make and give a huge initial boost.

                  So for me, the potential payoff is COMPLETELY worth the very small risk for all new sites I create and most of my existing sites. But I'll always keep that first site in my back pocket just in case.

                  Does that make sense?
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                  • Profile picture of the author rinor81
                    Originally Posted by ElectronPlumber View Post

                    Wow! So many good questions and comments! I'll try to answer a couple at a time and get to all of them eventually. If I miss yours in the pile send me a PM and remind me.







                    I am certainly wearing a Grey Hat here Honest Abel. One can argue that these services are a very small step away from paying for links which is against the Google Terms of Service.

                    The general consensus among SEO experts is that you will not be deindexed or lose rankings by buying or building suspect links since that would make it easy to get your competition deindexed. Don't like whomever is ranking #1 for your favorite keyword? Spam 10,000 profile links then report them to Google and you can take their place. So what can Google do other than not count those links? Very little.

                    Now if these were your only links I'd say that's pretty much the end of your site ranking, so always diversify your links to prevent this.

                    I'm now using these services for the majority of my sites, and seeing some decent ranking jumps for it. I plan to use them to get every new site I start off the ground and into the top of the SERPS, since you kind of need people to find your site before they can link back to you naturally.

                    BUT, I'm also risk adverse. I won't use any of these services on my first and oldest site. It now ranks on the first page of Google for somewhere around 20 darn good keywords and hundreds if not thousands of other long tail keywords, all 100% using White Hat painfully slow link building methods over the past three years. I can point a couple sidebar links on that site at any new site I make and give a huge initial boost.

                    So for me, the potential payoff is COMPLETELY worth the very small risk for all new sites I create and most of my existing sites. But I'll always keep that first site in my back pocket just in case.

                    Does that make sense?
                    A complete and very educated answer my dear friend.

                    Keep us posted with your progress and we'll keep you...

                    Take care.
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                    • Profile picture of the author ElectronPlumber
                      Originally Posted by atrbiz View Post

                      BMR is definitely the best blog network I've used! In regards to the article writing, I'm currently getting BMR posts for only $.75-$1.00/150 word post
                      Originally Posted by WhosGotMoves View Post

                      Any chance you can share where you outsource this service to? Or even PM? Great price IMO..
                      I've started outsourcing mine to someone I found on freelancer.com. So far I've received around 100 articles each 150 words long for $1 per and the quality has been great. It's not award winning journalism, but they read well and were 100% accepted on the BMR network. I added my links manually, but you can find a lot of experienced BMR writers on freelancer.com that will also submit the articles for you, links and all.

                      Sure it's more work than just having BMR write them for $2.50 each, but I saved $150 by spending an hour or two finding a freelancer and manually editing them. I'll put that money to much better use. I peg my personal time at around $75 an hour. If I can save over that with a service, it's generally worth it to me.

                      I'm going to spin them together too and use them for 1WayLinks and UAW. So for $100 I'll get thousands of articles out of those 100.

                      I'm writing a post on my site about how I screened the 25-30 people that applied to my freelancer job and picked 2 that have been flawless so far.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Honest Abel
                    Originally Posted by ElectronPlumber View Post

                    Wow! So many good questions and comments! I'll try to answer a couple at a time and get to all of them eventually. If I miss yours in the pile send me a PM and remind me.







                    I am certainly wearing a Grey Hat here Honest Abel. One can argue that these services are a very small step away from paying for links which is against the Google Terms of Service.

                    The general consensus among SEO experts is that you will not be deindexed or lose rankings by buying or building suspect links since that would make it easy to get your competition deindexed. Don't like whomever is ranking #1 for your favorite keyword? Spam 10,000 profile links then report them to Google and you can take their place. So what can Google do other than not count those links? Very little.

                    Now if these were your only links I'd say that's pretty much the end of your site ranking, so always diversify your links to prevent this.

                    I'm now using these services for the majority of my sites, and seeing some decent ranking jumps for it. I plan to use them to get every new site I start off the ground and into the top of the SERPS, since you kind of need people to find your site before they can link back to you naturally.

                    BUT, I'm also risk adverse. I won't use any of these services on my first and oldest site. It now ranks on the first page of Google for somewhere around 20 darn good keywords and hundreds if not thousands of other long tail keywords, all 100% using White Hat painfully slow link building methods over the past three years. I can point a couple sidebar links on that site at any new site I make and give a huge initial boost.

                    So for me, the potential payoff is COMPLETELY worth the very small risk for all new sites I create and most of my existing sites. But I'll always keep that first site in my back pocket just in case.

                    Does that make sense?
                    Thanks for the response and thanks again for sharing the details of the experiment. It is fascinating reading.

                    We are on the same wavelength with regards to BML (off-white to very pale grey IMHO) and what sites to use it with but my personal feeling about the others (medium grey to black IMHO) is still to avoid using them due to their specific tactics which I firmly believe will eventually get sites whacked and smacked :-)
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            • Profile picture of the author markowe
              Originally Posted by Honest Abel View Post

              I employ "white hat" methods, not only because it's the ethical thing to do, but because I personally think white hat methods are more evergreen - and I like evergreen much more than chasing the latest trick.
              I am with you on that. But what would you consider "white hat" (not to deviate from the thread too much)? And do you think that "white hat" is of necessity harder work than bl@ckhat "shortcuts"? Bearing in mind that practically all off-site SEO is effectively a form of manipulation of the SERPS...

              Not knocking what you are saying - I keep away from the more spammy methods like forum profiles, comment spam etc. too - just wondering about your take on it.
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              • Profile picture of the author Honest Abel
                Originally Posted by markowe View Post

                I am with you on that. But what would you consider "white hat" (not to deviate from the thread too much)? And do you think that "white hat" is of necessity harder work than bl@ckhat "shortcuts"? Bearing in mind that practically all off-site SEO is effectively a form of manipulation of the SERPS...

                Not knocking what you are saying - I keep away from the more spammy methods like forum profiles, comment spam etc. too - just wondering about your take on it.
                I don't think off-site activities that lead to links to a site you own as necessarily "manipulation" - for example, most people who post to this forum have something meaningful and useful to say and most have links to something in their sig - they aren't manipulating anything to get those links posted. If you post a link to a new article on Twitter (and maybe it is re-tweeted) that isn't manipulation, etc, etc.....UNLESS you are over-doing it maybe.
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  • Profile picture of the author RichardF
    Nice to see BuildMyRank is still dominating! It's my favorite too by far.
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  • Profile picture of the author blueorca17
    This is a pretty cool thread. I like how you've tested all of these services on separate domains. BMR looks like a winner...I might just have to try it out.
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  • Profile picture of the author ONEWOLF
    Thanks for the diligent and through work. Very much appreciated. I have always used a link building service (hoist,SEO Juice, and BMR) but always in combination with other techniques like social bookmarking,article marketing,directory submissions, and forum commenting.
    I still have a difficult time measuring all of my efforts, but this study is a step in the right direction, Thanks.
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  • Profile picture of the author kirstie
    @honestable ... spun articles may be black hat, but they can be very evergreen and overwhelmingly powerful. Take for instance solarhome.org, it ranks #1 for solar panels and #2 for solar panel and #2 for solar power.

    How did it get there? Approximately 250+ websites exactly like this ...

    planetbiodiesel dot org
    eco-living dot com
    aquasolar dot com
    earthcall dot org
    energyusernews dot com

    They are all spun content with alternating templates. Whether you are for article spinning or against it, there is no denying the fact it is behind at least one multi million dollar operation and has been for a couple years I've been keeping an eye on it.
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  • Profile picture of the author mcimicata
    I agree with Abel "I employ "white hat" methods, not only because it's the ethical thing to do, but because I personally think white hat methods are more evergreen - and I like evergreen much more than chasing the latest trick.".
    I think that is super cool that you can rank so well with these methods, but Google will update their algorithm to cope with these backlinks.

    I am 24 years old, so I would rather spend 3 months building solid Evergreen backlinks that will be around forever than having to continually build backlinks to keep my site's ranking.

    It is definitely cool to see you ranking so well with these tools, and comparing all of them. Thanks!
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    • Profile picture of the author ElectronPlumber
      Originally Posted by mcimicata View Post

      I agree with Abel "I employ "white hat" methods, not only because it's the ethical thing to do, but because I personally think white hat methods are more evergreen - and I like evergreen much more than chasing the latest trick.".
      I think that is super cool that you can rank so well with these methods, but Google will update their algorithm to cope with these backlinks.

      I am 24 years old, so I would rather spend 3 months building solid Evergreen backlinks that will be around forever than having to continually build backlinks to keep my site's ranking.

      It is definitely cool to see you ranking so well with these tools, and comparing all of them. Thanks!
      People always talk about evergreen backlinks, which basically means stays around forever, yet no one seems to be able to define what makes a backlink evergreen.

      I've had great backlinks on a site homepage disappear when a webmaster decides they want to keep their page rank for themselves. I've had guest posts with links on sites go from dofollow to nofollow when the site changes their policies. I've had a darn good article with a PR4 pointing to one of my sites disappear during a redesign. No link is forever.

      You really think a company like Google will take the time to manually deindex the tens of thousands of sites that are part of link networks? It's like whack a mole. They deindex one and three others will pop up in their place. They will get thousands of complaints from people who were mistakenly caught in their net and have to manually review them.

      Building backlinks is like any other business decision and should be made as such. It's all about managing risk vs time vs cost vs benefit. Picture your typical supermarket. There are different costs, risks, times and benefits associated with sourcing their meat or fish locally vs buying it frozen. Fresh and local is what everyone wants but requires local processing, more risk of spoilage and more cost. Large factory processed and frozen is easiest and cheapest. There are small markets that sell fresh and local and use that as a point to bring people in and develop a dedicated customer base, but it's really hard and costly to scale. Most supermarkets that make the most money use processed cheap factory meat.

      Start thinking about your link building the same way. I'm not saying one is "better" than the other, just that there is money in both.
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      • Profile picture of the author rinor81
        Originally Posted by ElectronPlumber View Post

        People always talk about evergreen backlinks, which basically means stays around forever, yet no one seems to be able to define what makes a backlink evergreen.

        I've had great backlinks on a site homepage disappear when a webmaster decides they want to keep their page rank for themselves. I've had guest posts with links on sites go from dofollow to nofollow when the site changes their policies. I've had a darn good article with a PR4 pointing to one of my sites disappear during a redesign. No link is forever.

        You really think a company like Google will take the time to manually deindex the tens of thousands of sites that are part of link networks? It's like whack a mole. They deindex one and three others will pop up in their place. They will get thousands of complaints from people who were mistakenly caught in their net and have to manually review them.

        Building backlinks is like any other business decision and should be made as such. It's all about managing risk vs time vs cost vs benefit. Picture your typical supermarket. There are different costs, risks, times and benefits associated with sourcing their meat or fish locally vs buying it frozen. Fresh and local is what everyone wants but requires local processing, more risk of spoilage and more cost. Large factory processed and frozen is easiest and cheapest. There are small markets that sell fresh and local and use that as a point to bring people in and develop a dedicated customer base, but it's really hard and costly to scale. Most supermarkets that make the most money use processed cheap factory meat.

        Start thinking about your link building the same way. I'm not saying one is "better" than the other, just that there is money in both.
        Great post man, I agree with everything said here, well done and good luck to us all!
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        • Profile picture of the author Val Kinsky
          I have read the last two posts with fascination. I have tried both methods (automated and manual link-building) and came to a conclusion that none is a panacea. Automated link-building is faster but those links don't tend to stay long, and manual links stay longer, but God, they are so time-consuming.

          I never really paid too much attention to 404 errors until recently. Some of my older and bigger sites ended up with too many broken links, which generated hundreds of 404 errors, and the sites started losing rankings. And Google does not like too many 404 errors. So, the more links you build, the more links will get broken over time. I have realized I need to stay on top of my broken links, if I want my sites to rank well.

          Bottom line, I agree that links are links, there are no evergreen links, you will have to keep building links if you want to compete for profitable keywords. And I also realized I should outsource manual link-building the same way I outsource automated.

          To me, there are no good or bad link-building methods. We build links because Google wants us to, otherwise we wouldn't bother.
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      • Profile picture of the author Honest Abel
        Originally Posted by ElectronPlumber View Post

        People always talk about evergreen backlinks, which basically means stays around forever, yet no one seems to be able to define what makes a backlink evergreen.

        I've had great backlinks on a site homepage disappear when a webmaster decides they want to keep their page rank for themselves. I've had guest posts with links on sites go from dofollow to nofollow when the site changes their policies. I've had a darn good article with a PR4 pointing to one of my sites disappear during a redesign. No link is forever.

        You really think a company like Google will take the time to manually deindex the tens of thousands of sites that are part of link networks? It's like whack a mole. They deindex one and three others will pop up in their place. They will get thousands of complaints from people who were mistakenly caught in their net and have to manually review them.

        Building backlinks is like any other business decision and should be made as such. It's all about managing risk vs time vs cost vs benefit. Picture your typical supermarket. There are different costs, risks, times and benefits associated with sourcing their meat or fish locally vs buying it frozen. Fresh and local is what everyone wants but requires local processing, more risk of spoilage and more cost. Large factory processed and frozen is easiest and cheapest. There are small markets that sell fresh and local and use that as a point to bring people in and develop a dedicated customer base, but it's really hard and costly to scale. Most supermarkets that make the most money use processed cheap factory meat.

        Start thinking about your link building the same way. I'm not saying one is "better" than the other, just that there is money in both.
        For clarity, I meant evergreen tactics, not evergreen links. I basically meant tactics that will work for a very on time and will NOT get you banned or demoted later on. If a link disappears, no big deal - others will fill its place and then some as the site matures if I offer something of real value on the site. However, if a technique is used that is black hat (or really grey) what may work to get you some higher ranking today and in the near future may not just disappear later, it may actually PENALIZE the site.

        I respect your testing methods very much but I also think it's important to think very long term, regardless of how well a particular method may be working today.
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        • Profile picture of the author ElectronPlumber
          Originally Posted by Honest Abel View Post

          For clarity, I meant evergreen tactics, not evergreen links. I basically meant tactics that will work for a very on time and will NOT get you banned or demoted later on. If a link disappears, no big deal - others will fill its place and then some as the site matures if I offer something of real value on the site. However, if a technique is used that is black hat (or really grey) what may work to get you some higher ranking today and in the near future may not just disappear later, it may actually PENALIZE the site.

          I respect your testing methods very much but I also think it's important to think very long term, regardless of how well a particular method may be working today.
          Agreed. Due to the success of these services, I'm starting to see my link building and website promotion strategy VERY differently than I did six months ago.

          I've read about this technique before, but the effectiveness never quite hit me before. I think having a hierarchy of sites is the way to go.

          At the top is your money site, the one with the darn good unique content that attracts real readers and customers.

          Below that are sites with unique content written by other people that is really just to attract customers through SERPS.

          Below that are the spun/auto-blog sites that simply exist to get pages indexed for links.

          And below that are all these link building services.

          Point each one up the chain, add an appropriate number of grey to light grey to very light grey to white hat links up the chain as well from other sources, and build my own SEO network. Isolate cells of sites by different IPs, different Adsense accounts and Google Analytics accounts.

          Has anyone done this in the past? How did it work?
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          • Profile picture of the author Honest Abel
            Think about this from the perspective of an internet user (who is not an internet marketer) trying to use Google and other search engines to find information. What you are proposing puts FAR more lower quality sites out there just to get ONE really good site - this very seriously affects the user experience - it becomes more difficult to find QUALITY information or even to find RELEVANT information. The more this gains popularity, the more dilute the quality becomes. You have now contributed to the problem that Google and other search engines are forced to constantly fight. Now put yourself in the shoes of a Google engineer trying to figure out what to do about this situation. How can they program their system to deal with this problem - how can they design their system to automatically detect this "pyramid scheme?" AND the better your system works the more motivated they are going to be to find a way to detect it - and of course deal with it. Any new search engine that can do this much better will get noticed by users - and Google knows that so they are even more motivated to deal with it.

            I'm all for marketing quality sites but any plan that includes the intentional development of a whole network of lower quality sites is not something I can endorse - from an ethical perspective and what's best for the internet overall and from the perspective of what is good for the marketer really long-term.

            Originally Posted by ElectronPlumber View Post

            Agreed. Due to the success of these services, I'm starting to see my link building and website promotion strategy VERY differently than I did six months ago.

            I've read about this technique before, but the effectiveness never quite hit me before. I think having a hierarchy of sites is the way to go.

            At the top is your money site, the one with the darn good unique content that attracts real readers and customers.

            Below that are sites with unique content written by other people that is really just to attract customers through SERPS.

            Below that are the spun/auto-blog sites that simply exist to get pages indexed for links.

            And below that are all these link building services.

            Point each one up the chain, add an appropriate number of grey to light grey to very light grey to white hat links up the chain as well from other sources, and build my own SEO network. Isolate cells of sites by different IPs, different Adsense accounts and Google Analytics accounts.

            Has anyone done this in the past? How did it work?
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          • Profile picture of the author JennyBizz
            Originally Posted by ElectronPlumber View Post

            Agreed. Due to the success of these services, I'm starting to see my link building and website promotion strategy VERY differently than I did six months ago.

            I've read about this technique before, but the effectiveness never quite hit me before. I think having a hierarchy of sites is the way to go.

            At the top is your money site, the one with the darn good unique content that attracts real readers and customers.

            Below that are sites with unique content written by other people that is really just to attract customers through SERPS.

            Below that are the spun/auto-blog sites that simply exist to get pages indexed for links.

            And below that are all these link building services.

            Point each one up the chain, add an appropriate number of grey to light grey to very light grey to white hat links up the chain as well from other sources, and build my own SEO network. Isolate cells of sites by different IPs, different Adsense accounts and Google Analytics accounts.

            Has anyone done this in the past? How did it work?
            Pat from the Smart Passive Income Blog outlined a very similar strategy on his blog. He went into great detail on how he does it, too! It's one of his most popular posts to date and has generated over 700 comments.

            THE Backlinking Strategy That Works | The Smart Passive Income Blog
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  • Profile picture of the author mytoy78
    Hey,

    I just wanted to say thank you for the update. I've been tracking this thread for the last couple of months now and have really enjoyed it. I love build my rank adn have seen mt serps for my main key word jump from 47 to 7 with only forty articles.


    Thanks and keep up the great work.

    mytoy78
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    • Profile picture of the author Cliff_OBA
      Hi -stumbled onto this, and have had a great time reading through everything. Probably should have done 20 other things in that time, but I'm a sucker for stats and good experiments.

      I'll be checking in on this to see how things are coming along. I've been on the fence for a while with BMR, as it seems expensive and/or time consuming to max out the possible links. But from your results, I have something to think about.
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  • Profile picture of the author dirtyhair
    great post
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  • Profile picture of the author mytoy78
    Wow, it's great to see such a lively debate going on here in this thread. I do agree, although I am a huge BMR fan, link diversification is the way forward. Remember the old saying. "Never put all of your eggs in one basket".

    Thank you ElectronPlumber, I am a big Fan!!!!
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    • Profile picture of the author Jmeer
      Honest Abel,

      I don't know where you are coming from.
      When you read the description on the BMR site then you can see:
      that they have an "....empire of aged, high page rank domains...".

      And also "Network consists of high quality, aged domains only (PR1-PR6PR7)"

      So what do you mean with: "whole network of lower quality sites"

      If this were the case we would not see the results that the op has.
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      • Profile picture of the author Honest Abel
        My last comments were not directed at the BMR service but rather the proposal to create a "pyramid" of sites each linking to the next level where the bottom level uses dark gray tactics and less grey up the pyramid thereby "protecting" the "top site" (i.e. quality site).

        IMHO, the BMR service is the lightest grey of the tactics being tested in this experiment but not pure white of course.

        Originally Posted by Jmeer View Post

        Honest Abel,

        I don't know where you are coming from.
        When you read the description on the BMR site then you can see:
        that they have an "....empire of aged, high page rank domains...".

        And also "Network consists of high quality, aged domains only (PR1-PR6PR7)"

        So what do you mean with: "whole network of lower quality sites"

        If this were the case we would not see the results that the op has.
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  • Profile picture of the author rahmanpaidar
    Nice post and wonderful experiment. still need a little more time but the first results are eye catching.
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  • Profile picture of the author ameerulislam10
    @ElectronPlumber, one thing came into my mind many times when I was following your case study. The competition for each keyword is not the same. So is it really a justice for you to declare one service better than the other like that?
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    • Profile picture of the author ElectronPlumber
      Originally Posted by ameerulislam10 View Post

      @ElectronPlumber, one thing came into my mind many times when I was following your case study. The competition for each keyword is not the same. So is it really a justice for you to declare one service better than the other like that?
      Ameerulislam10, I am targeting the EXACT SAME KEYWORDS on all five sites. When I say one site ranks #3 and one ranks #13, that's for the same keyword. And all four services I'm testing here cost around $50 a month. The only main difference is the effort needed for each service.

      I also took great pains to manually rewrite each page five times but keeping the same keyword density for my targeted keywords on all five sites.
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      • Profile picture of the author ameerulislam10
        Originally Posted by ElectronPlumber View Post

        Ameerulislam10, I am targeting the EXACT SAME KEYWORDS on all five sites. When I say one site ranks #3 and one ranks #13, that's for the same keyword. And all four services I'm testing here cost around $50 a month. The only main difference is the effort needed for each service.

        I also took great pains to manually rewrite each page five times but keeping the same keyword density for my targeted keywords on all five sites.
        Ok, What about the domain name? That is a big factor as well right? Are they close enough?
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        • Profile picture of the author ElectronPlumber
          Originally Posted by ameerulislam10 View Post

          Ok, What about the domain name? That is a big factor as well right? Are they close enough?
          You just jumped to the last page without reading the initial post, didn't you?

          From the first page:
          Originally Posted by ElectronPlumber View Post

          Here is exactly what I'm doing:
          1. Register 5 very similar domains for a specific keyword on the same day. I've already done this step. I've kept them as close to the keywords as possible. For example, bestseoexperiment.org, bestseoexperiment.com, bestseoexperiment.net, best-seoexperiment.org, and best-seoexperiement.com. NOTE, those aren't the domains, I'm picking a product keyword with medium competition that at least makes the investment in SEO services worthwhile.
          I also go into more detail on which site has which name and extension on the posts at my site (check my sig).
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          • Profile picture of the author ameerulislam10
            Originally Posted by ElectronPlumber View Post

            You just jumped to the last page without reading the initial post, didn't you?

            From the first page:
            [/LIST]I also go into more detail on which site has which name and extension on the posts at my site (check my sig).
            Possibly I forgot, it's been long since I read your first post. :p
            Signature
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  • Profile picture of the author yoshi74
    This really is a great experiement but I've just done one of my own this week which I thought I would drop in. Its not exactly scientific but make of it what you will.

    A week is a short period of time to gauge results and of course we have all these ongoing updates with Google at present.

    But here goes -

    Two articles in Ezine.

    Both unique, 500 words.
    Both targeting different keywords in same niche but with simliar ranking profiles, competition (according to SEO tools).

    - First article submitted about 3 months ago. Ranking at 90 in Google UK (fallen away from initial 'new article ranking boost' - previously on page 2)

    - Second article submitted about 2 weeks ago. Ranking at 20 in Google UK after starting about position 9 on page one.

    - No other linking being done to articles at present.

    5 BMR added last week for each on exact main keyword match.

    Today -

    - First article has jumped to page one, position 8
    - Second article has droppped to 116th

    So what to make of this? Well firstly you would think that the lowest ranked article would have moved up as it should technically be easier to move up from position 90 than to jump from page two to page one... but it has actually fallen away over this time...

    Yet the newer article has had a pretty big jump in terms of SERPS for the limited SEO done.

    It will be interesting to see if this changes over the next week or so.

    So what does this show? I don't know is the honest answer.... but its interesting... :-)
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    • Profile picture of the author 4webmaster
      You trick Google? Google will trick you!

      Originally Posted by yoshi74 View Post

      This really is a great experiement but I've just done one of my own this week which I thought I would drop in. Its not exactly scientific but make of it what you will.

      A week is a short period of time to gauge results and of course we have all these ongoing updates with Google at present.

      But here goes -

      Two articles in Ezine.

      Both unique, 500 words.
      Both targeting different keywords in same niche but with simliar ranking profiles, competition (according to SEO tools).

      - First article submitted about 3 months ago. Ranking at 90 in Google UK (fallen away from initial 'new article ranking boost' - previously on page 2)

      - Second article submitted about 2 weeks ago. Ranking at 20 in Google UK after starting about position 9 on page one.

      - No other linking being done to articles at present.

      5 BMR added last week for each on exact main keyword match.

      Today -

      - First article has jumped to page one, position 8
      - Second article has droppped to 116th

      So what to make of this? Well firstly you would think that the lowest ranked article would have moved up as it should technically be easier to move up from position 90 than to jump from page two to page one... but it has actually fallen away over this time...

      Yet the newer article has had a pretty big jump in terms of SERPS for the limited SEO done.

      It will be interesting to see if this changes over the next week or so.

      So what does this show? I don't know is the honest answer.... but its interesting... :-)
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    • Profile picture of the author Honest Abel
      Yoshi,

      This is interesting.

      I would be interested to hear if the relative results stay the same after a few more weeks/months.

      Seems reasonable to me that the older one would have more organic links and therefore more to balance out those new links and keep it diverse.

      Originally Posted by yoshi74 View Post

      This really is a great experiement but I've just done one of my own this week which I thought I would drop in. Its not exactly scientific but make of it what you will.

      A week is a short period of time to gauge results and of course we have all these ongoing updates with Google at present.

      But here goes -

      Two articles in Ezine.

      Both unique, 500 words.
      Both targeting different keywords in same niche but with simliar ranking profiles, competition (according to SEO tools).

      - First article submitted about 3 months ago. Ranking at 90 in Google UK (fallen away from initial 'new article ranking boost' - previously on page 2)

      - Second article submitted about 2 weeks ago. Ranking at 20 in Google UK after starting about position 9 on page one.

      - No other linking being done to articles at present.

      5 BMR added last week for each on exact main keyword match.

      Today -

      - First article has jumped to page one, position 8
      - Second article has droppped to 116th

      So what to make of this? Well firstly you would think that the lowest ranked article would have moved up as it should technically be easier to move up from position 90 than to jump from page two to page one... but it has actually fallen away over this time...

      Yet the newer article has had a pretty big jump in terms of SERPS for the limited SEO done.

      It will be interesting to see if this changes over the next week or so.

      So what does this show? I don't know is the honest answer.... but its interesting... :-)
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  • Profile picture of the author livemusic
    ElectronPlumber, you said there is an article about how you chose freelancers at your site... can't find it and I don't see a search button.
    Signature

    Bill

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  • Profile picture of the author ElectronPlumber
    I said I was going to write an article about how I chose my BMR freelancers. It's on my long list of stuff to do. So is adding a search field to my site.
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  • Profile picture of the author OneManSEO
    I've noticed that the PR update hit BMR pretty hard. The number of PR1 sites doubled this week and I've only posted a handful of new posts, so I am guessing it auto updated their chart too.

    It didn't seem to hurt my rankings, so whatev.
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    • Profile picture of the author aa411853
      Originally Posted by OneManSEO View Post

      I've noticed that the PR update hit BMR pretty hard. The number of PR1 sites doubled this week and I've only posted a handful of new posts, so I am guessing it auto updated their chart too.

      It didn't seem to hurt my rankings, so whatev.
      PR values are all over the place right now, so it's hard to tell what the right values are. We cycle thru all of our sites about once every 3-4 days, and already some sites have different PR values than they did when the first update hit. And like everyone else is reporting we've had some crazy stuff too like PR1s go to Pr5s and 6s, which I don't think is correct. And likewise we've had Pr5s and 6s drop to 3s and 4s. Remains to be seen how this all will shake out. Even still as everyone knows PR isn't as useful of a gauge as it once was.
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  • Profile picture of the author ameerulislam10
    Hei, ElectronPlumber . On 27th Google updated PRs, Any changes in your sites?
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    • Profile picture of the author ElectronPlumber
      Originally Posted by ameerulislam10 View Post

      Hei, ElectronPlumber . On 27th Google updated PRs, Any changes in your sites?
      Woah thanks ameerulislam10! I hadn't even considered checking the PR on these sites until you asked.

      BMR Site: PR 1
      1WayLinks Site: PR 2
      LinkAloha site: PR 1
      UAW Site: PR 0
      My Control Site: PR 0

      So that's certainly interesting. It appears that you can buy page rank.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rough Outline
    I joined BuildMyRank partially because of this thread, one of my sites is currently sitting at approximately 3rd to 4th for it's main keyword, only after less than 10 posts to the entire. Very impressed by BMR to say the least.
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    • Profile picture of the author Adaptise
      Originally Posted by Rough Outline View Post

      I joined BuildMyRank partially because of this thread, one of my sites is currently sitting at approximately 3rd to 4th for it's main keyword, only after less than 10 posts to the entire. Very impressed by BMR to say the least.
      I'm also in the same boat - after reading this thread (and another review post by someone else), I jumped in, and definitely impressed by the results so far. Will start ramping things up big time with BMR in the coming month...
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    • Profile picture of the author ElectronPlumber
      Originally Posted by Rough Outline View Post

      I joined BuildMyRank partially because of this thread, one of my sites is currently sitting at approximately 3rd to 4th for it's main keyword, only after less than 10 posts to the entire. Very impressed by BMR to say the least.
      I think the key here is to not overdo any one link building activity. I have certainly done that on these experiment sites without a doubt to keep the results clean. I plan on keeping all four of these services active after this experiment is over, and rotating links through them for all my new sites.

      To prove it's worth it I'm going to take this experiment one or two months further and point ALL the services at my 5th "control" site and see what happens.

      This month even with a week spent "sandboxed" the BMR site has earned $100 in affiliate commissions, which is about double the monthly BMR cost. From a couple years of experience, I find that my sites sales quintuple (multiple by five) during the November and December holiday months. So if these rankings hold, I'm anticipating profiting by at least $1500 on this one site by the end of the year.

      I'm already starting to see traffic from long tail keywords that I haven't done any link building for. I think if I can focus on and get some of the sub pages to start ranking I can probably kick that up to $2500 by the end of the year and double that next year.

      Yeah yeah, don't count your chickens before they hatch. But still, if I can kick out 10 more similar sites in my spare time before the end of the year, it'll make for a nice 2012...
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      • Profile picture of the author rinor81
        I use BMR for 5 of my sites but I don't see results like you guys...

        The sites are not new and I can't jump my sites with the keywords I'm promoting. One site has a keyword stuck on page 2, another site I see my keywords for dancing between pages 5-7 and I use it for almost two months now....

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        • Profile picture of the author Dellco
          Originally Posted by rinor81 View Post

          I use BMR for 5 of my sites but I don't see results like you guys...

          The sites are not new and I can't jump my sites with the keywords I'm promoting. One site has a keyword stuck on page 2, another site I see my keywords for dancing between pages 5-7 and I use it for almost two months now....

          After being a BMR user for a long time, I can conclude a few things:

          If Google doesn't really like your site or your page, you will never rank it with BMR no matter how many posts you make. On the other hand, IF Google likes your site or your page, or at least gives a hint that it does, you can likely see better/good results with BMR.

          Also, if you target a competitive keyword, forget it.... BMR might help slightly, assuming you make a ton of posts (think like 100-200 posts for that one keyword) but that's all.....Anything after that is redundant. By competitive, I mean big keywords that many others are also going after.

          Some posts here on WF have said that effectiveness of BMR flatlines after about 20-30 posts. I can agree with them, through experience. If your keyword doesn't budge after 20-30 posts, it will never move "much" beyond that, if any at all....

          Also, it is always best practice to diversify your link sources. Don't just use BMR alone, because it is not a miracle worker. The problem is if you write the posts, because it's time consuming, and that might take up time that could be used for other link building activities (if you don't have much time or energy to begin with).

          Hope this helps.
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          • Profile picture of the author rinor81
            Originally Posted by Dellco View Post

            After being a BMR user for a long time, I can conclude a few things:

            If Google doesn't really like your site or your page, you will never rank it with BMR no matter how many posts you make. On the other hand, IF Google likes your site or your page, or at least gives a hint that it does, you can likely see better/good results with BMR.

            Also, if you target a competitive keyword, forget it.... BMR might help slightly, assuming you make a ton of posts (think like 100-200 posts for that one keyword) but that's all.....Anything after that is redundant. By competitive, I mean big keywords that many others are also going after.

            Some posts here on WF have said that effectiveness of BMR flatlines after about 20-30 posts. I can agree with them, through experience. If your keyword doesn't budge after 20-30 posts, it will never move "much" beyond that, if any at all....

            Also, it is always best practice to diversify your link sources. Don't just use BMR alone, because it is not a miracle worker. The problem is if you write the posts, because it's time consuming, and that might take up time that could be used for other link building activities (if you don't have much time or energy to begin with).

            Hope this helps.
            Hey man,

            Yes, this helps a lot....I just hope it will help as I write more because I don't know whether it will work and that I wrote enough and no go....

            I know I need to diversify my links, think I'll get back next week to publish on article directories again a bit....
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  • Profile picture of the author Dominium
    Hmm, looks like Build my Rank is winning... I thought that it would the UAW :/ I always liked Articles for backlinks. Oh well, good luck! And thanks for this whole "experiment"

    Cheers,
    Dominium
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  • Profile picture of the author XIIIzen
    Even when BMR is winning the experiment so far, I'm a bit sad I can't use it since they do not accept sites in foreign languages. Still the experiment has brought a lot of insight about the other services too.

    If anyone knows of a similar services as BMR for Spanish sites I would love to hear from it.
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  • Profile picture of the author Heavenstorm
    i have a low competition keyword which i had 200+ bmr posts on it but it just will not move to the first page. It was rank #13...and together with electronplumber lastest post, I realise my mistake was building links onnly to 1 keyword. I began varying my anchor text and ta dah~ my keyword is now in page 1... always learning something new!
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    • Profile picture of the author freddylan
      Great thread, i just spend an hour to read it entirely and it is very informative.

      On my part i am using UAW at the moment to try to rank in the 1st page a bunch of 100 mini web page with EMD and very low competition, let see what happen!.

      It seem that a this moment UAW have the best ROI ?

      A big thanks and i will follow this experiment.
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    • Profile picture of the author mahmoud747
      Originally Posted by Heavenstorm View Post

      i have a low competition keyword which i had 200+ bmr posts on it but it just will not move to the first page. It was rank #13...and together with electronplumber lastest post, I realise my mistake was building links onnly to 1 keyword. I began varying my anchor text and ta dah~ my keyword is now in page 1... always learning something new!
      Really good advice
      but when you vary the anchor text, do you use related anchor text or just any other one ?
      and what is the the percentage of the targeted anchor text in all backlinks ?
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      • Profile picture of the author ElectronPlumber
        Originally Posted by mahmoud747 View Post

        Really good advice
        but when you vary the anchor text, do you use related anchor text or just any other one ?
        and what is the the percentage of the targeted anchor text in all backlinks ?
        From when the BMR site was sandboxed:
        • I had over 65% of my links going to one keyword
        • I had only 6% for my site name
        • I had less than 10% not keyword stuffed
        • I had close to doubled the amount of links in two days
        Then I posted enough "new" links to change it to:
        • Brought it to under 55% for my main keyword
        • Brought my site name links over 10%
        • Expanded my keyword stuffed diversity
        • Brought my "junk" link diversity up over 5%
        I pulled that from a much longer article on my site about when my BMR and LinkAloha sites were sandboxed for link diversity problems and how I fixed it and ranked both sites again.
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        • Profile picture of the author maveric
          Originally Posted by ElectronPlumber View Post

          From when the BMR site was sandboxed:
          • I had over 65% of my links going to one keyword
          • I had only 6% for my site name
          • I had less than 10% not keyword stuffed
          • I had close to doubled the amount of links in two days
          Then I posted enough "new" links to change it to:
          • Brought it to under 55% for my main keyword
          • Brought my site name links over 10%
          • Expanded my keyword stuffed diversity
          • Brought my "junk" link diversity up over 5%
          I pulled that from a much longer article on my site about when my BMR and LinkAloha sites were sandboxed for link diversity problems and how I fixed it and ranked both sites again.
          Wow, this is really good stuff! Great to see some actual data as opposed to the ominous info we see so much of.

          One question on the sandboxing: How do you know the sites would not have come back without any change in direction? In other words, I wonder what would have happened if you would have continued on the same path. (sorry if this has already been answered elsewhere)

          I'll be following this for sure, and look forward to more experiments!
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          • Profile picture of the author mytoy78
            I have to second all of the above comments, I'm now advising all my Build My Rank client's my team and I write for to use this model of anchor text and link diversification.

            I'm also putting it into effect this weekend on my own sites, as I don't want to see them plummet downawards through the serps.

            Many thanks

            Colin Armour
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          • Profile picture of the author ElectronPlumber
            Originally Posted by maveric View Post

            Wow, this is really good stuff! Great to see some actual data as opposed to the ominous info we see so much of.

            One question on the sandboxing: How do you know the sites would not have come back without any change in direction? In other words, I wonder what would have happened if you would have continued on the same path. (sorry if this has already been answered elsewhere)

            I'll be following this for sure, and look forward to more experiments!
            Maveric, I can't say 100% for certain that they would not have eventually come back naturally. But I can say that I'm 99.9% convinced.

            You need to clear your mind of everything you've heard about Google being arbitrary, that stuff just happens sometimes, that the "Google Dance" is something you just need to wait out, that no one know how long "sandboxing" lasts.

            The Google search algorithm is a piece of software that runs on a machine. It's governed by mathematical formulas that are limited in their complexity. Why? Because they need to crunch TRILLIONS of webpages on a minute by minute basis with almost instant speed. If the algorithms were too complex, it would take too long to give you results and you'd go use Bing or Yahoo. You can actually figure out the exact what and why of it through testing like this. Sure, they tweak it sometimes, but never so radically that it would hurt the quality they've built up.

            So how do I know?

            First, it happened with my BMR site. I let it sit for a week, no change. Then I fixed my backlink profile, 2 days later the site ranked again.

            Then is happened with my LA site. I let that sit for a full month, no change. Then I fixed my backlink profile, 2 days later the site ranked again.

            Now it's started happening this week with my 1WL site. How about this, you guys tell ME how long you want me to let it sit like that before I hit it with a better backlink profile to bring it back. Sound fair?
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            • Profile picture of the author carp104
              I've just signed up for BMR and have been diversifiying my links but my site fell from 4th to 6th since using it. It is most likely too early to tell, but I have only been using it for two weeks now and only built about 7 links. About half of those are to my main keyword (site name) and the others are random or to sub-pages.

              Am I doing something wrong here or do I just need to wait a little longer?
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              • Profile picture of the author Shakespeared
                Ok, I jumped in on the free trial of BMR because of this thread too. I just got in today so I obviously can't report anything but I'll check back to confirm any amazing good/bad results.

                Thanks for this ElectronPlumber. Helped me make up my mind!
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                • Profile picture of the author OneManSEO
                  Originally Posted by Shakespeared View Post

                  Ok, I jumped in on the free trial of BMR because of this thread too. I just got in today so I obviously can't report anything but I'll check back to confirm any amazing good/bad results.

                  Thanks for this ElectronPlumber. Helped me make up my mind!
                  I find the free trial to be extremely limited...I had to upgrade quickly.
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  • Profile picture of the author chrisc616
    I've learned so much from this thread, but by far the most important thing is the information on the sandbox. I can almost say for certain that you are accurate with this analysis. I think so many people get "stuck in the sandbox" because all of their links are for one or two keywords.

    This definitely does not look natural to google, and I believe by balancing out your like anchor text, you can get your site back to where it belongs in the rankings. I can't wait to test this out on a couple of my sites that have disappeared from the rankings.
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  • Profile picture of the author bikeswine
    I'm a forum newbie but I've been playing around at SEO since before I can recall it being called SEO. I have to say that the information on the Google sandbox is absolutely great. What is said makes perfect sense but it's just theory until this test. Very good thing to keep in mind while backlinking to diversify my anchor texts.

    I used BMR for two months and discontinued it, not because of its performance but because I felt like I wasn't posting enough to get my money's worth. From what you've posted it seems as though 15-20 posts a month can really make a difference. I was feeling like I needed 150-200 posts a month to be worth my money and I can't write that much nor can I afford to outsource that many articles. I might give BMR a second look after seeing your results.
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    • Profile picture of the author ElectronPlumber
      Originally Posted by rinor81 View Post

      I use BMR for 5 of my sites but I don't see results like you guys...

      The sites are not new and I can't jump my sites with the keywords I'm promoting. One site has a keyword stuck on page 2, another site I see my keywords for dancing between pages 5-7 and I use it for almost two months now....

      Originally Posted by Heavenstorm View Post

      i have a low competition keyword which i had 200+ bmr posts on it but it just will not move to the first page. It was rank #13...and together with electronplumber lastest post, I realise my mistake was building links onnly to 1 keyword. I began varying my anchor text and ta dah~ my keyword is now in page 1... always learning something new!
      Originally Posted by bikeswine View Post

      I'm a forum newbie but I've been playing around at SEO since before I can recall it being called SEO. I have to say that the information on the Google sandbox is absolutely great. What is said makes perfect sense but it's just theory until this test. Very good thing to keep in mind while backlinking to diversify my anchor texts.

      I used BMR for two months and discontinued it, not because of its performance but because I felt like I wasn't posting enough to get my money's worth. From what you've posted it seems as though 15-20 posts a month can really make a difference. I was feeling like I needed 150-200 posts a month to be worth my money and I can't write that much nor can I afford to outsource that many articles. I might give BMR a second look after seeing your results.
      Don't forget that BMR isn't magic, any more than Google is magic. It simply goes a little bit further OUT OF THE BOX than the other services do.

      What does BMR do differently than the others?
      1. Puts your articles and keywords on the front pages of sites that have pagerank for at least a day or two, enough time for Google to notice them.
      2. Backlinks those articles from other articles they that also benefit from #1. I've noticed that the backlink anchor text is random and has nothing to do with my niche.
      3. Makes you create unique content.
      I really think that #1 and #2 have FAR more do to with the success than #3 does. I'm constrained by the bounds of this experiment to make it fair, but I really think that if I manually did #2 for 1Waylinks and UAW, they would provide FAR more benefit than they are out of the box, maybe even more than BMR. I might do this as a future experiment.

      But up next for me after this experiment is over is really testing #3. Does duplicate content make a difference vs spun content vs unique content for backlink purposes.
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      • Profile picture of the author bikeswine
        Thanks for your thoughts on BMR and all of your experimenting. I did like the fact that BMR backlinked my links and thought that had to help. I recently paid for a service that when I checked out my links discovered that none of them were even indexed because they were on garbage blogs that Google had de-indexed. It might have been because of spun content but I have no way to be sure - you'll have to figure that out in a later experiment.

        Thought you - and everyone else - might be interested to know someone is doing a similar experiment using backlink services that require no work, just money. It's actually a tribute to you since they were inspired by your experiment.

        (I can't post the link because I haven't contributed much here yet, but search for backlink-service-backlinking-service-test, it's in this forum.)
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  • Profile picture of the author chrisc616
    Hi I have really enjoyed your case study. I'm using BMR, but I'm trying to decide how long I should proceed with each domain. I've heard that the benefits start to level off after 20-30 posts. What is your experience with this? Also do you have any tips to make the posts more effective? I'm doing all 150 word posts. I have one site I'm trying to make an authority site with over 100 pages. Do you think it would be worth it to start writing posts for each page? Thanks for any suggestions you may have.
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    • Profile picture of the author ElectronPlumber
      Originally Posted by chrisc616 View Post

      Hi I have really enjoyed your case study. I'm using BMR, but I'm trying to decide how long I should proceed with each domain. I've heard that the benefits start to level off after 20-30 posts. What is your experience with this? Also do you have any tips to make the posts more effective? I'm doing all 150 word posts. I have one site I'm trying to make an authority site with over 100 pages. Do you think it would be worth it to start writing posts for each page? Thanks for any suggestions you may have.
      I think there are a lot of factors at play here.

      I suspect that Google has multiple ways of detecting and discounting backlink spamming. Multiple backlinks from the same IP or site with the same keywords are likely ignored for anything with PR 1 or lower.

      At a certain point, low power backlinks for the same keywords don't help in a way you can notice.

      Picture a plane ticket and think of a single unique article PR0 backlink like you get on BMR is $1. $49 will get you from Washington to NYC one way coach off hours during a sale. That's 49 BMR links. For $100 you can get the same coach seat at a better time. For $400 you can fly business class, for $1000 you can fly first class. For $20,000 you can charter a private jet. Or for $30,000,000 you can buy your own personal jet.

      You can't get a private jet for $300, which is the maximum number of links you can make in a month on BMR. You would have to do that for 30,000 months! But $50 will get you to your destination.

      See where I'm going with this? At a certain point, PR0 backlinks don't help because the jet is too big to buy $1 at a time. Now picture a PR1 link being $10, PR2 being $100, PR3 being $1000, PR4 being $10,000, PR5 being $100,000, and each PR6 being $1,000,000 and you can start to see yourself owning that jet.

      So yes, I'd say 30 posts PER MONTH for your main page but for keyword variations after the first month and 10-20 for each sub-page total for that 100 page site. Yeah, that's a lot of BMR articles, but you can get them done for about $1 each on a freelancer site.
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  • Profile picture of the author bobbyp21
    Thanks ElectronPlumber, this is one of the most interesting and informative posts that I have ever read on WF. We all owe you a debt of gratitude, if not some money.

    One thing though, everyone keeps talking about the Google "sandbox" and I don't want to be a nit picker but a site dropping for a day or a week isn't really "sandboxed". Its when it drops for a month or 3. Usually all you do is start backlinking the hell out of it and it bounces back stronger than when it got sandboxed. This is been done by hundreds of people over on the Bluefart forums.

    The other thing that I enjoy is that Google is one heck of a partner if you think about it. They seem to be going out of their way to kiss up to the major players, meaning big corporations with huge budgets. We normal people have to continuously figure out what works and what just got downgraded.

    The argument about "white hat" and "grey hat" cracks me up too. What we consider white hat now like manual backlinking or blog posts was considered black hat just a few years ago.

    One other thing that was fun. I have an older site thats about 3 years old that I work on every once in a while and had just read something about broken links hurting PR. So I found a wordpress plugin and did a removal of over 500 broken links thinking this will be great.

    Almost immediately, the next day, my traffic dropped 90%!!! I didn't put 2 and 2 together at first. I checked google to make sure I was not de-indexed but it seemed fine. I did searches and my pages were still there too. I am regaining my traffic each day and expect to be back to normal hopefully within a month. But it just goes to show you that Google is always watching and even when you do something totally "white hat" you can be penalized.

    Thanks again.
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    • Profile picture of the author ElectronPlumber
      Originally Posted by bobbyp21 View Post

      Thanks ElectronPlumber, this is one of the most interesting and informative posts that I have ever read on WF. We all owe you a debt of gratitude, if not some money.

      One thing though, everyone keeps talking about the Google "sandbox" and I don't want to be a nit picker but a site dropping for a day or a week isn't really "sandboxed". Its when it drops for a month or 3. Usually all you do is start backlinking the hell out of it and it bounces back stronger than when it got sandboxed. This is been done by hundreds of people over on the Bluefart forums.
      Bobbyp21, the theory that I am putting forward AND backing up with experimental data is that there is NO time component to being sandboxed. You don't need to "wait it out" for a month or 3. Nor is it dependent on how many links you have or have not made.

      It's entirely dependent on the quality of your backlink profile. Go over a certain percentage of low quality backlinks for the same keywords without any link text diversity and Google thinks you are trying to trick it. And rightly so.

      That variable one or six or twelve month time component people always talk about with "the sandbox" is not that Google makes your site wait, it's the time it takes for those low quality keyword stuffed links to drop out of the index or your natural backlinks to grow and bring your backlink profile in line with what Google thinks is natural.

      I have replicated the same exact results now on two sites and still sitting on another sandboxed site as a third data point. As soon as I diversify my backlink profile on a sandboxed site, poof, the site is back in the rankings.

      Note that this does NOT apply for a deindexed site. See my FAQ here for the difference between deindexed, penalized, and sandboxed: http://www.warriorforum.com/adsense-...deindexed.html
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      • Profile picture of the author bobbyp21
        Originally Posted by ElectronPlumber View Post

        Bobbyp21, the theory that I am putting forward AND backing up with experimental data is that there is NO time component to being sandboxed. You don't need to "wait it out" for a month or 3. Nor is it dependent on how many links you have or have not made.
        Thanks for the great response ElectronPlumber. I appreciate you pointing this out, I had missed that part. I truly appreciate you sharing your knowledge.
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  • Profile picture of the author HarryPothead
    Thanks for your posts and thread on WF. I've been following closely your thread "Great SEO experiments on link building services"

    You've mentioned in one of your post that the adsense CPC for the keywords chosen for the services is $1 or less and the keywords are competitive.

    You also mentioend that usually you select keywords that are less competitive and with adsense clicks much more than $1...for your own SEO optimized sites.

    How do you find keywords with less competition but with good CPC? Is there any specific plan or idea you followed while doing this research?

    I wanna create my first Adsense websites and am confused how to search for high paying keywords yet they are low competitive?
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    • Profile picture of the author ElectronPlumber
      Originally Posted by HarryPothead View Post

      Thanks for your posts and thread on WF. I've been following closely your thread "Great SEO experiments on link building services"

      You've mentioned in one of your post that the adsense CPC for the keywords chosen for the services is $1 or less and the keywords are competitive.

      You also mentioend that usually you select keywords that are less competitive and with adsense clicks much more than $1...for your own SEO optimized sites.

      How do you find keywords with less competition but with good CPC? Is there any specific plan or idea you followed while doing this research?

      I wanna create my first Adsense websites and am confused how to search for high paying keywords yet they are low competitive?
      This is my first shot at trying to go after a narrow keyword. Again, my example above of "best seo experiment" isn't my keyword, but it's about what I'm going for here. I usually setup a site to go after a much harder keyword like "best seo" or "seo reviews", something with far more reach and monthly searches.

      And you know what? Only one of my sites actually ranks on page 1 for that hard keyword that I initially targeted! I use that keyword as a long term goal for 2 or 3 or 4 years from now. Until then, I write individual sub-pages for easier keywords and get THOSE onto Page 1, then I check my search stats and find other easier keywords that I should target.

      It's easier to rank a site for 20 easy keywords than it is for 1 hard keyword, and the extra long tail searches you'll get will make you the same if not more traffic and money.

      But sorry, no magic plan for finding keywords. I sit and play with the Google Adwords keyword tool on my laptop while my wife watches TV and just look for keywords manually. I tried Market Samurai for a while, but found it too slow and unreliable.

      Gut feel is enough for me. Some people say only go for keywords that have 1000+ monthly searches, but don't skip that 500 monthly search one if the first 10 results in Google are really weak for it (a bunch with 0 page rank, few exact keyword matches in the title, etc).
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      • Profile picture of the author HarryPothead
        Originally Posted by ElectronPlumber View Post

        It's easier to rank a site for 20 easy keywords than it is for 1 hard keyword, and the extra long tail searches you'll get will make you the same if not more traffic and money.

        But sorry, no magic plan for finding keywords. I sit and play with the Google Adwords keyword tool on my laptop while my wife watches TV and just look for keywords manually. I tried Market Samurai for a while, but found it too slow and unreliable.

        Gut feel is enough for me. Some people say only go for keywords that have 1000+ monthly searches, but don't skip that 500 monthly search one if the first 10 results in Google are really weak for it (a bunch with 0 page rank, few exact keyword matches in the title, etc).
        Thanks..that's great tip.
        Also it's good to know that to find the good keyword I need to do "what I'm doing right now" in a more productive way viz : dig google keyword tool more deeply for better results
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        • Profile picture of the author kimhopkins
          I just ran into this thread yesterday and I just wanted to say thanks, ElectronPlumber, for setting up this SEO experiment. This may be my favorite thread of all time!
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      • Profile picture of the author JustSomeWarrior
        Originally Posted by ElectronPlumber View Post


        And you know what? Only one of my sites actually ranks on page 1 for that hard keyword that I initially targeted! I use that keyword as a long term goal for 2 or 3 or 4 years from now. Until then, I write individual sub-pages for easier keywords and get THOSE onto Page 1, then I check my search stats and find other easier keywords that I should target.
        That's the method I'm using. In the mean time, I gotta keep writing articles for other people to pay the bills. It's currently bringing in 4k to 6k a month... I can't wait until the site does that by itself. I haven't even made a single dollar, yet.
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