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The Problem with Link Wheels.

by multiclickman
21 replies
  • SEO
    • |
Hi, I spent a lot of time studying structures but sincerely don't know the problem that google has with the link wheels.:confused:

:confused:What's the problem with the link wheels?:confused:

a) because all peripheral sites are connected, and google smells the footprints?

b) because all peripheral sites point to the main site?

c) both?



thank you.
#link #problem #wheels
  • Profile picture of the author tpw
    Both.

    Any footprint that points to an effort to manipulate Google's algo will be frowned upon. Especially since they want you to build for users and not them.

    Peripheral sites pointing to main would not be that much of an issue really, but it is another proof that you are trying to manipulate Google's algo.

    With the last Google update, a lot of the pages in the link wheel have been declared of no value, which short-circuits the entire process for you.

    If you are going to play games with Google's algorithms, leave fewer obvious footprints.
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    • Profile picture of the author Ldimilo
      Originally Posted by tpw View Post


      If you are going to play games with Google's algorithms, leave fewer obvious footprints.
      Perfectly said. I should point out that if most who use link wheels were to map out a page's links into a graph, they would very well see the issue and risks with what they are doing. Algorithms can sniff this kind of stuff out fairly quickly.

      The biggest problem with link wheels (or gaming links period) is that most of the content isn't meant to be seen by anyone. In fact, for the person who is using this strategy, they hope that NO ONE sees it.

      Besides being a huge time sink, it really isn't that efficient of a model either. Think about it this way...you could build this huge web of links that is going to provide you absolutely no immediate value (unless you rank, which is another story altogether), OR you could spend your time finding your market online, engaging your market, networking with the influencers and building a solid presence that transcends SEO. Do that, and you are closer to not only google proofing your business but actually making a difference within your market.

      It is more efficient of a model.

      Article marketing is the same thing. You could toss masses of spun articles out there that no one is going to see OR you could find where you market is and find a way to interact with your market via real syndication on real websites that get real traffic.

      Marketers making a difference? Who'd a thunk dat?
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    • Profile picture of the author Chri5123
      Originally Posted by tpw View Post

      Both.

      Any footprint that points to an effort to manipulate Google's algo will be frowned upon. Especially since they want you to build for users and not them.

      Peripheral sites pointing to main would not be that much of an issue really, but it is another proof that you are trying to manipulate Google's algo.

      With the last Google update, a lot of the pages in the link wheel have been declared of no value, which short-circuits the entire process for you.

      If you are going to play games with Google's algorithms, leave fewer obvious footprints.
      This ^

      As marketers you can't help BUT leave some kind of trial but as long as you make sure that your content is NATURALLY filtered through to Google and of VERY high quality you will actually get ranked better than any link wheel.

      In my experience anyway.

      Chris
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  • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
    Nothing is wrong with a link wheel. Interlinking each spoke on the wheel will cause a decay though, so you don't have perpetual juice being passed.

    A link push is the most effective way, which there is no footprint and there is nothing google can do to punish you.

    Even link wheels, you won't be penalized for... If anyone argues with that, then why aren't you doing it to your competition?
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    • Profile picture of the author Ldimilo
      Originally Posted by iAmNameLess View Post


      Even link wheels, you won't be penalized for... If anyone argues with that, then why aren't you doing it to your competition?
      Yeah, but the links will be devalued. If are exclusively using link wheels and the spokes are worthless, what is the difference between the links being penalized and them not having value? Either way, you are just wasting your time.
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      • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
        Originally Posted by Ldimilo View Post

        Yeah, but the links will be devalued. If are exclusively using link wheels and the spokes are worthless, what is the difference between the links being penalized and them not having value? Either way, you are just wasting your time.
        I have ranked over 40 sites, #1-3 ranking with a link wheel/push

        Wasting time? Hopefully you don't have SEO clients, and think that is a waste of time. If I thought link pushing was a waste, I'd be bartending right now. It is undetectable if done properly.

        Attached is an example of what I do. I usually do a bit more but you can see the concept here. I don't really interlink anything.
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        • Profile picture of the author tpw
          Originally Posted by iAmNameLess View Post

          I have ranked over 40 sites, #1-3 ranking with a link wheel/push

          Wasting time? Hopefully you don't have SEO clients, and think that is a waste of time. If I thought link pushing was a waste, I'd be bartending right now. It is undetectable if done properly.

          Attached is an example of what I do. I usually do a bit more but you can see the concept here. I don't really interlink anything.

          I am betting that you are not leaving obvious footprints.

          I don't close wheels, and I seldom point to target domains from each point on the spoke...

          I do build spokes, without the wheel, and I do not leave obvious footprints in the path...

          Yes the premise can be effective, but most people do it wrong...
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          • Profile picture of the author steveshills
            Link wheels do work still, but you really have to go the extra mile and build your web 2.0 link profiles, eg; adding more content, pictures, videos, not just one or two pages, i'm talking about 20 plus, and all with unique content.

            Interlinking can be done, but you must make it look more natural, and the best way is from social bookmarking accounts.

            Remember that you can build up these sites really easy, and dont forget about the blog commenting aspect, tell people in bold text to comment on your web 2.0 blogs, but it must be kept on topic.

            Also do take your time, i build some blogs for weeks before hitting the blog with a post for my money site.

            My advice is treat these blogs just like your money website, because after all its part of your business, with the affect of the google updates, i can now see the real power of web 2.0 again as a way of generating easy traffic to your money site, their great for backlinks but even more powerful for traffic gen.
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  • Profile picture of the author Landis
    Linkwheels in the traditional sense are/have been easily detected by google. Other types of structures such as link pyramids, linkpushing, and mininets still work.
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  • Profile picture of the author multiclickman
    Guys I really apreciate your comments, I didn't know anything about linkpushing and mininet (It's like a piramyd structure).

    Can you explain me what do you mean with mininet? and link pushin?

    Link pushing maybe it's like a queue of sites?
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    • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
      Originally Posted by multiclickman View Post

      Guys I really apreciate your comments, I didn't know anything about linkpushing and mininet (It's like a piramyd structure).

      Can you explain me what do you mean with mininet? and link pushin?

      Link pushing maybe it's like a queue of sites?
      Only one way links, no interlinking. You can view my attachment above for an example.
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      • Profile picture of the author Michael Shook
        Originally Posted by iAmNameLess View Post

        Only one way links, no interlinking. You can view my attachment above for an example.
        It is probably a great diagram but it is really hard to see. Is there a way to see it in a bigger form?
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        • Profile picture of the author Dave Rodman
          Banned
          The problem with how most people do link wheels is that none of the spokes have any value. They are worthless blog network links, web 2.0 links, blog comments, social bookmarks, etc.

          If you go back 7 or 8 years, people like Leslie Rohde, Jeff Johnson, and Michael Campbell all encouraged people to setup your own networks of sites. But people stopped doing that because it was more difficult to maintain (hide) all those sites. Instead they relied on others blog networks and web 2.0 sites.
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      • Profile picture of the author charto911
        Originally Posted by iAmNameLess View Post

        Only one way links, no interlinking. You can view my attachment above for an example.
        Do you offer that wheel ?
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    • Profile picture of the author basstrackerboats
      Originally Posted by multiclickman View Post

      Guys I really apreciate your comments, I didn't know anything about linkpushing and mininet (It's like a piramyd structure).

      Can you explain me what do you mean with mininet? and link pushin?

      Link pushing maybe it's like a queue of sites?
      Here's a good diagram for you:

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  • Profile picture of the author multiclickman
    Ok only one way, but mininet is the same thing?

    And why don't link the back sites also?
    ex:
    siteA-->SiteB-->MoneySite

    Why you don't link also SiteA to the MoneySite?
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    • Profile picture of the author tpw
      Originally Posted by multiclickman View Post

      Ok only one way, but mininet is the same thing?

      And why don't link the back sites also?
      ex:
      siteA-->SiteB-->MoneySite

      Why you don't link also SiteA to the MoneySite?

      If you link SiteA to the MoneySite, then the link to SiteB that also points to the MoneySite makes the footprint rather obvious, doesn't it?
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  • Profile picture of the author multiclickman
    ¬¬? sorry but I'm a noob
    whats the really thing that leaves the footprint in a web 2.0?
    ..........................................
    I se also that a lot of web 2.0 properties have dofollow links that are out of your control, so they are losing link juice that you need. There are any kind of web 2.0 properties that lose less link juice? or they are all the same?
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  • Profile picture of the author anislagan
    Thanks for the helpful tips here. I see a lot of backlinking services on this forum and this thread provides me very valuable inputs.
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  • Profile picture of the author jacked
    Originally Posted by multiclickman View Post

    Hi, I spent a lot of time studying structures but sincerely don't know the problem that google has with the link wheels.:confused:

    :confused:What's the problem with the link wheels?:confused:

    a) because all peripheral sites are connected, and google smells the footprints?

    b) because all peripheral sites point to the main site?

    c) both?



    thank you.

    It is mostly A. You can read about it more indepth if you check out the 2007 patents for google. But to put it simply, once a Google Spider goes through a series of links and at some point it lands back onto the original, it can tell that this is some sort of link wheel, and if this occurs often enough, the links will be devalued. This is why I only do Diverse Link Pyramids.
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  • Profile picture of the author jacked
    Yea, link pushing is basically the same as a link pyramid. You are basically making the links to your site stronger, by building or "pushing" more links or "link juice" through them.
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