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Competition Analysis - Grrrrrr!!

by junilerick
23 replies
  • SEO
    • |
I've come across a pretty decent keyword with over 5000 global searches and $10 CPC. Yet I'm not sure if I should go for it since even though all of the first page results aren't optimized for it in terms of title, description, or H1 tags, almost all of the are PR 5.

Traffic travis has deemed it as "relatively easy" but I know how unreliable the competition analysis feature on most (if not all) keyword tools can be.

What do you guys think?
#analysis #competition #grrrrrr
  • Profile picture of the author allenjohn
    Do an allintitle:"keyword" search on Google and see how many results you get...those are your genuine competition i.e. people actually targeting the term...

    regards Allen
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    • Profile picture of the author junilerick
      Originally Posted by allenjohn View Post

      Do an allintitle:"keyword" search on Google and see how many results you get...those are your genuine competition i.e. people actually targeting the term...

      regards Allen
      Uh... sorry but that's pretty bad and potentially misleading advice. The allintitle command is a horrible way of judging the strength of competition. Perhaps the quantity, yes, but I don't see how that matters.
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      • Profile picture of the author allenjohn
        Originally Posted by junilerick View Post

        Uh... sorry but that's pretty bad and potentially misleading advice. The allintitle command is a horrible way of judging the strength of competition. Perhaps the quantity, yes, but I don't see how that matters.
        Of course it matters. That's the whole point.... still, you seem to know a lot so I'm not sure this is a genuine plea for help.... regards Allen
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        • Profile picture of the author junilerick
          Originally Posted by allenjohn View Post

          Of course it matters. That's the whole point.... still, you seem to know a lot so I'm not sure this is a genuine plea for help.... regards Allen
          I don't get it, why exactly does it matter?

          Your true competition are only those that are on the first page. Even if there are ten million pages with the keyword in the title, it doesn't necessarily make it harder to rank for. It just means that there "a lot" of competing pages, it is in no way indicative of the strength of competition except for as preliminary general gauge.

          Alternatively, even if there are only 10,000 results with allintitle, the competition on the first page can still be incredibly tough. In fact, this isn't that uncommon.
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          • Profile picture of the author cashcow
            Originally Posted by junilerick View Post

            I don't get it, why exactly does it matter?

            Your true competition are only those that are on the first page. Even if there are ten million pages with the keyword in the title, it doesn't necessarily make it harder to rank for. It just means that there "a lot" of competing pages, it is in no way indicative of the strength of competition except for as preliminary general gauge.

            Alternatively, even if there are only 10,000 results with allintitle, the competition on the first page can still be incredibly tough. In fact, this isn't that uncommon.

            "discount student flights" for example only has a measly 4680 allintitle, yet the competition for first page is extremely tough.
            I think allintitle is important when you are narrowing down keywords to use for a niche (in the beginning of the keyword research phase) but at the point that you are at now, the allintitle would only be important to see for the top 10 pages which, you already have determined, do not have the keyword in the title.

            Ummm... Saswati ... I think (hope) that you have posted in the wrong thread.

            Lee
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    • Profile picture of the author bnwebm
      Ah, just Google? You're not actually painting an accurate picture of searches and competition then.

      Originally Posted by allenjohn View Post

      Do an allintitle:"keyword" search on Google and see how many results you get...those are your genuine competition i.e. people actually targeting the term...

      regards Allen
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    • Profile picture of the author celente
      Originally Posted by allenjohn View Post

      Do an allintitle:"keyword" search on Google and see how many results you get...those are your genuine competition i.e. people actually targeting the term...

      regards Allen
      this is true. That would be the best way to see. I spend about 1 hour a day per week just checking this to stay on the top of my game.
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  • Profile picture of the author pva4sale
    hello there, I am new here, how does it works
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    • Profile picture of the author junilerick
      Originally Posted by pva4sale View Post

      hello there, I am new here, how does it works
      How does what work?
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  • Profile picture of the author Bruce99
    Originally Posted by junilerick View Post

    I've come across a pretty decent keyword with over 5000 global searches and $10 CPC. Yet I'm not sure if I should go for it since even though all of the first page results aren't optimized for it in terms of title, description, or H1 tags, almost all of the are PR 5.

    Traffic travis has deemed it as "relatively easy" but I know how unreliable the competition analysis feature on most (if not all) keyword tools can be.

    What do you guys think?
    isnt this how long is a piece of string kind of question. I mean you seem to know what seo is all about and have done some preliminary analysis. The real question is how much time and money can you throw at it, and what kind of ROI are you looking at?
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    • Profile picture of the author junilerick
      Originally Posted by Bruce99 View Post

      isnt this how long is a piece of string kind of question. I mean you seem to know what seo is all about and have done some preliminary analysis. The real question is how much time and money can you throw at it, and what kind of ROI are you looking at?
      Yeah, I've got a pretty solid grasp on most of the general aspects of SEO, but I've never tried building a site under these circumstances before so I thought I'd get some input from people who actually "been there, done that."

      As with how much time and money I'm willing to throw at it and the ROI, isn't that exactly what I'm asking here. It looks profitable, but if it's going to take 2 years and 8 months to get there, then obviously the ROI isn't going to be worth it.
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  • Profile picture of the author cashcow
    That's an interesting question. It could be that there are no other pages that google thinks are appropriate for that term and has picked this PR5 pages just because they have authority. Perhaps your new page could beat them?

    One thing you might do is analyze the anchor text in the backlinks to all the competitors to see how many sites are linking back to them with your target term in the anchor text.

    Like Bruce said, if you think it will be wildly profitable then it could be worth spending the time/money to get onto page 1.

    Lee
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    • Profile picture of the author junilerick
      Originally Posted by cashcow View Post

      That's an interesting question. It could be that there are no other pages that google thinks are appropriate for that term and has picked this PR5 pages just because they have authority. Perhaps your new page could beat them?

      One thing you might do is analyze the anchor text in the backlinks to all the competitors to see how many sites are linking back to them with your target term in the anchor text.

      Like Bruce said, if you think it will be wildly profitable then it could be worth spending the time/money to get onto page 1.

      Lee
      Thanks for the advice. Although I'm not sure how to analyze the anchor text unless I'm doing it manually, which would probably take forever considering how many links most of them have.

      I suppose open site explorer can actually do that, but I don't have the paid version, meaning I can only see like 10 links lol..
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      • Profile picture of the author bnwebm
        Market Samurai provides anchor text info, as does Majestic.

        Originally Posted by junilerick View Post

        Thanks for the advice. Although I'm not sure how to analyze the anchor text unless I'm doing it manually, which would probably take forever considering how many links most of them have.

        I suppose open site explorer can actually do that, but I don't have the paid version, meaning I can only see like 10 links lol..
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      • Profile picture of the author cashcow
        Originally Posted by junilerick View Post

        Thanks for the advice. Although I'm not sure how to analyze the anchor text unless I'm doing it manually, which would probably take forever considering how many links most of them have.

        I suppose open site explorer can actually do that, but I don't have the paid version, meaning I can only see like 10 links lol..
        If you have Market Samurai this is really easy - just go to the SEO Competition page and click the little down arrow thing at the end of the url line, you'll be able to do an anchor text analysis that will show you all the anchor text pointing back to the page.
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        • Profile picture of the author junilerick
          Originally Posted by cashcow View Post

          If you have Market Samurai this is really easy - just go to the SEO Competition page and click the little down arrow thing at the end of the url line, you'll be able to do an anchor text analysis that will show you all the anchor text pointing back to the page.
          My trial period ran out and I'm spread kind of thin financially at the moment, so....

          Anyway I seriously doubt that they would have an anchor text using that keyword, because it doesn't really occur naturally in sentences and they obviously aren't optimizing their site for it. Still, I'm not sure how the PR will factor into all this.
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          • Profile picture of the author JoshKelsey
            Forgot about the pagerank and analyze the backlinks.
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  • Profile picture of the author bnwebm
    I always use several tools and base my decision to build a site on a consensus. Yes, Google is the largest most significant search engine, but collectively, the other ones (Bing, etc.) aren't insignificant and could be income you're sacrificing.
    Anyway, I use the major tools (MNF,MS, Google keyword tool) but also compare those results with Majestic. I also thoroughly research what the competition is or isn't doing. As you said, Meta is pretty easy to "outdo". Backlinking however, can be more work, resulting in less ROI at least initially.
    I'd suggest making a list of factors, not just the major ones and make an informed decision instead of a popular one.

    Originally Posted by junilerick View Post

    I've come across a pretty decent keyword with over 5000 global searches and $10 CPC. Yet I'm not sure if I should go for it since even though all of the first page results aren't optimized for it in terms of title, description, or H1 tags, almost all of the are PR 5.

    Traffic travis has deemed it as "relatively easy" but I know how unreliable the competition analysis feature on most (if not all) keyword tools can be.

    What do you guys think?
    Signature
    My blog, because nothing is a more powerful marketing tool than a well written article.
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    • Profile picture of the author junilerick
      Originally Posted by bnwebm View Post

      I always use several tools and base my decision to build a site on a consensus. Yes, Google is the largest most significant search engine, but collectively, the other ones (Bing, etc.) aren't insignificant and could be income you're sacrificing.
      Anyway, I use the major tools (MNF,MS, Google keyword tool) but also compare those results with Majestic. I also thoroughly research what the competition is or isn't doing. As you said, Meta is pretty easy to "outdo". Backlinking however, can be more work, resulting in less ROI at least initially.
      I'd suggest making a list of factors, not just the major ones and make an informed decision instead of a popular one.
      Well I believe the most important factors are whether or not the keyword is in the url, title, description, and H1 tag. I don't know what other factors you think I should be looking at.
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      • Profile picture of the author bnwebm
        Those are the most important meta factors. You'll get varied opinions, but in my experience, content quality and density, while not primary factors of competitive analyses, are relevant for conversions and even for clickthroughs. I'm meticulous in analyzing the top ten competitors in terms of the content they provide, how fast their index page loads, the quality (or lack thereof) of the site design. I think like a consumer, or at least I attempt to think in those terms. It's easy to put up meta tags, but you can be number one rank on Google and it can mean nada in terms of revenue.
        As an example, I have a site that had been pushed down a page or two by meta-rich sites that had crap, spun content or even no content. When Panda became a reality, my site, which had unique, quality, relevant content jumped into the number one slot and has been there ever since. Mind you, this happened with no manipulation on my part. I became number one in a slew of meta-optimized sites. It speaks volumes about what sites stand out when it comes to the eyes of the consumer. Very different from what most tools will tell you.


        Originally Posted by junilerick View Post

        Well I believe the most important factors are whether or not the keyword is in the url, title, description, and H1 tag. I don't know what other factors you think I should be looking at.
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  • Profile picture of the author JoshKelsey
    The only sites you need to analyze are the top ten (well really top 3). There can be 10 million results and be an easy market to break into.. or there can be 100 results and be incredibly difficult.

    Is there an EMD (exact match domain) available to you (.com, .net, .org) or the exact match with hypens? Are there EMD's in the top 10 already that you would be competing against?

    Look at the top few results, analyze their backlinks: are they spam, quality, mix of both? Can you gain more / better links? Depends on your budget and ability.

    Rate the quality of their content. Do you have the budget or the ability to have the best content available of those in top 10?

    Are they matched via broad match or are they targeting the term with a title / page.

    Competitive analysis is about what you can pull off. What's easy to some is very difficult to others.

    Use tools to to find places to focus on. After that use your brain.


    Originally Posted by junilerick View Post

    I've come across a pretty decent keyword with over 5000 global searches and $10 CPC. Yet I'm not sure if I should go for it since even though all of the first page results aren't optimized for it in terms of title, description, or H1 tags, almost all of the are PR 5.

    Traffic travis has deemed it as "relatively easy" but I know how unreliable the competition analysis feature on most (if not all) keyword tools can be.

    What do you guys think?
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  • Profile picture of the author tbsweet52
    Depends on what the niche is. Competition for me doesn't really matter, but that depends on how fast you want (or need) to rank.

    One of my sites just cracked the top 10 for a keyword in which its top 10 results had an average PR of 3 and domain age of 10 years. When I first started out I knew it would take awhile, but in the end it would pay off.
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  • Profile picture of the author TBInternetMarketing
    Well that is a good start if they aren't well optimized. What you need to focus on now is what kind of backlinks those top 10 sites have. Are they low quality, or high PR ones?
    If you think you can create more quality links than they have that should give you the answer.
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