Here's How to Avoid The Google Dance & Sandbox

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  • SEO
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I often hear folks talking about their sites dancing and in the sandbox, whilst I don't want to have another debate as to whether these effects exist or not, I'm going to offer some tips to prevent it from happening and what to do if it happens to one of your sites.

BTW; Matt Cutts from google has stated many times that algorithmic and manual based penalties do exist and I've had many sites experience the dancing and sandbox effect, however this year I haven't had any since I've naturally developed my own system to avoid it.

These rules apply mostly to new sites, which the dance/sandbox effects mostly happen on.

Ok, here goes;

To prevent the dance/sandbox effects;

1) Make sure you have at least 3 pages of 1,000+ words combined of unique content on your site before building links.

2) Make sure you have a privacy policy and contact details clearly visible somewhere, ideally on their own inner pages. Google likes to show sites which have stated policies, this helps cover their butt as well.

3) To start on a new site, I find doing a press release the best thing, you get clean links from authority sites, try going with a press release service that has a PR7+ domain, that way you will get your link inside their domain, links from high authority sites act as stablizers for your ranking. Google likes these links, it shows trust, it shows it's passed a human filter, as a PR7 news site wouldn't link to a spammy viagra site, google uses this as a spam filter. Appearing in google news is a good way to look like your site has gone viral too, which will help when building a spurt of authority links at the same time. I use this step in my own service.

4) Don't build too many links targeting a high search volume keyword to begin with. This looks like obvious manipulation for traffic. Develop a list of at least 10 related keywords, and start by randomly building links to the lower traffic keywords first, then start slowly on your main high traffic keywords.

5) Try and send as much traffic to your site at the same time of building a lot of links, google does use Alexa rankings in determining page popularity, so it looks unnatural if you acquire 1,000 links and your site has had less than 100 visitors, try doing some solo ads or a free giveaway or something to drive traffic, I've found getting more IP addresses to visit your site helps.

6) Don't do forum profile blasts directly to your money site! This is probably the biggest cause of penalities and the associated dancing/sandbox effects. In fact try and steer clear of any backlink vendor that uses automated software to create your links, it's just not good to get 1000s of link farm links in a short period of time. Build your links consistently.

7) Try and get links that are surrounded by 100% unique relevant content. Google is on a war path against link farms, my theory is they don't have a problem with link creation so long it's in tandem with unique content generation, google is always hungry for more new content, the more content it has in it's index the more options it has to show users for more search queries. This is why article blasts of 1000s of links won't necessarily cause dancing/sandbox, but profile blasts do, because they're not surrounded by content, they're a obvious manipulation of the system.

8) Keep adding content to your site when it's new, every bit counts. Building new content at the same time as building new links definitely helps, gives the appearance of natural growth.

9) Add some high authority links, that is, links on the actual pages with high page rank, these are the most powerful links you can get and will propel your rankings more than any other, also they are a good defensive link to have, it's a strong vote from an authority source.

Now, if you find yourself in a google dance or sandbox, you can try this;

1) Immediately check for duplicate content on your site, and if so, remove it.

2) Add more unique content.

3) Keep building links, your natural reaction will be to stop, however you must continue building, a big drop off in link velocity won't help.

4) Whatever keyword you've been using in your link building, stop using that, get a list of 5 low search long tail related keywords and manually build backlinks using those keywords. You need to diversify your incoming anchor text.

5) Try getting a link from a very high page rank site, with one site I had last year that was dancing like crazy I added it into the yahoo directory ($299 per year) and within a week of the yahoo link being indexed the site stabilized and jumped to the bottom of page 1 for my target keyword, I think largely because yahoo is a PR9 site plus being in the directory is a signal to google the site has been manually human reviewed which means it passes a certain level of integrity.

6) Be patient, seriously, dancing or sandbox isn't something to freak out about, as long as you remain in the index you will always come back, it's just a matter of when, some penalties last 50 days, others 90 days, other 180 days, however you can change these automatic time lapses by altering your link profile and more importantly your on-page where most of the penalties originate from.

That's it, nothing special, you've probably heard most of it before, but like anything else it's just doing the basic things well all the time and you will succeed.

I'm also going to state my opinion, that in 99% of the cases of de-indexing, it's an on-site issue that the website owner doesn't or won't recognize.

You can't get de-indexed for link building. If so, no site would be left on google, since we would have all blasted each other out of the index already.

Well that's it, I hope this post helps at least one person from dancing around the serps.
#avoid #dance #google #sandbox
  • Profile picture of the author Talen
    2) Make sure you have a privacy policy and contact details clearly visible somewhere, ideally on their own inner pages. Google likes to show sites which have stated policies, this helps cover their butt as well.
    Sorry but this would have no effect on a Google dance in any way shape or form. This only applies to adsense.
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    • Profile picture of the author LiftMyRank
      Originally Posted by Talen View Post

      Sorry but this would have no effect on a Google dance in any way shape or form. This only applies to adsense.
      I respectfully disagree with you, I've seen non-adsense sites affected where this was the only on page issue I could see, plus whether it's 100% true or not who cares, for 5 minutes of your time it's worth it, it's all about risk management.

      Google has stated they use over 400 different signals to rank, so I'm quite sure one of them is "does site have stated privacy policy", "does site have contact info", showing sites which meet these criteria increases the integrity of their search results, they don't want a whole bunch of one pagers on page 1 with affiliate ads slutted all over them. Privacy is a huge issue for google and it's their Achilles heel in terms of legal exposure. In fact I've heard reputable SEO experts claim adding a valid phone number to their site helped their authority, which makes sense, large reputable companies have valid phone numbers listed, thin affiliate sites don't.
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      • Profile picture of the author Talen
        Originally Posted by John Moore View Post

        I respectfully disagree with you, I've seen non-adsense sites affected where this was the only on page issue I could see, plus whether it's 100% true or not who cares, for 5 minutes of your time it's worth it, it's all about risk management.

        Google has stated they use over 400 different signals to rank, so I'm quite sure one of them is "does site have stated privacy policy", "does site have contact info", showing sites which meet these criteria increases the integrity of their search results, they don't want a whole bunch of one pagers on page 1 with affiliate ads slutted all over them. Privacy is a huge issue for google and it's their Achilles heel in terms of legal exposure. In fact I've heard reputable SEO experts claim adding a valid phone number to their site helped their authority, which makes sense, large reputable companies have valid phone numbers listed, thin affiliate sites don't.
        You aren't required to have a privacy policy or contact page unless you have adsense on site and google has never publicly stated that your pages must have this if you don't have adsense. Google has also never publicly stated what 400 factors are in their signals for ranking so you can be quite sure but it is still speculation that no one else has ever believed.

        I also find it very hard to believe that a phone number on site helps authority...it will help customers but that's about it.
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  • Profile picture of the author warner444
    thanks, this seems like it will work too.
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  • Profile picture of the author cooler1
    Thanks for the info. Which free press release sites do you recommend submitting to?

    I read an ebook which said they submitted a PR to some free PR sites and got 12,000 backlinks from it. Is this rare to get so many backlinks from 1 PR? How many backlinks do you typically get?
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    • Profile picture of the author LiftMyRank
      Originally Posted by cooler1 View Post

      Thanks for the info. Which free press release sites do you recommend submitting to?
      I don't recommend free press releases, good links cost money. I have my own exclusive access to the wires, you can see more detail in my WSO link in my sig.
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  • Profile picture of the author TVrick
    Thanks John. Some great info here for a newbie. Much appreciated.
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  • Profile picture of the author Steven Miranda
    Some decent tips in your post but... I don't think any site can 'avoid' the Google dance or sandbox effect. The Google dance from what I know if simply Google re-evualting SERP sites. The sandbox I don't believe is a negative thing such as a penalty but Google doing live experiments on SERPs. They admitted it themselves here:

    Official Google Blog: Another look under the hood of search
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  • Profile picture of the author JSProjects
    Pretty good overview overall.

    I'd throw in that you should avoid most fiverr services on a new site. I consistently see threads & posts from people who's rankings have dropped massively after ordering a service from fiverr.

    Dropping after building a ton of backlinks isn't uncommon. Usually, if they're high quality backlinks, you'll come back pretty quickly and at a higher position. But if they're junk backlinks you'll probably come back at a much lower position.
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  • Profile picture of the author supershoesclub
    It must be a useful idea for avoiding the google dnacing and sandbox.i am wondering whether it is harmful if we use the articles from the article directories to our own blog?
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  • Profile picture of the author teqrecon
    Thank you for your nice post!
    My site is new and once it was in Google sandbox, I was totally freaked out!
    But luckily I got help and guide from some experts. Now it goes well!
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  • Profile picture of the author xylement
    great info john. really appreciate this. Thanks for the sharing!
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  • Profile picture of the author keepgoin
    Interesting thread, excellent tips. Thanks!

    Andy :-))
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  • Profile picture of the author johnnyflex
    Thanks man, this is very useful because my site just got Sandboxed. I was a bit disappointed with it because it already gives me a good money then bam.. So, thanks again.
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  • Profile picture of the author barneystinson
    may i know what press release sites do you use
    could you please mention the amount of back links you build to your site during the initial months?
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  • Profile picture of the author onepace
    Originally Posted by John Moore View Post

    1) Make sure you have at least 3 pages of 1,000+ words combined of unique content on your site before building links.
    Where does this magic number come from?
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  • Profile picture of the author retsced
    Well, I actually enjoy the Google Dance. Myself and my girlfriend do the tango around the living room.
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    • Profile picture of the author LiftMyRank
      Originally Posted by Talen View Post

      You aren't required to have a privacy policy or contact page unless you have adsense on site and google has never publicly stated that your pages must have this if you don't have adsense. Google has also never publicly stated what 400 factors are in their signals for ranking so you can be quite sure but it is still speculation that no one else has ever believed.

      I also find it very hard to believe that a phone number on site helps authority...it will help customers but that's about it.
      I didn't say anything about being required, it's all about risk management, having it will remove that risk if it is a factor, if I were google and privacy being such a huge issue that it is, I would only serve up sites which have stated policies, this is my opinion.

      Originally Posted by barneystinson View Post

      may i know what press release sites do you use
      could you please mention the amount of back links you build to your site during the initial months?
      I have my own access to the wires, see my WSO in my sig for more info.

      Originally Posted by onepace View Post

      Where does this magic number come from?
      My magic hat, just kidding, it's just a number I feel comfortable with.
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  • Profile picture of the author ruff
    Hi, I'm fairly new to all of this but my site just got kicked out of the rankings on the newest update. I was already ranked at about 15 or so on the most competitive keyword I'm targeting, but just from that last update, my site and all its pages got kicked out.

    I don't have adsense on that site. It's fairly new so I only have about 5 to 6 pages of 700+ words of content each. I have about 2 or 3 affiliate links to Amazon all throughout the site so I guess that's not spammy in a way.

    I was waiting for it to get to 100 views a day before monetizing with adsense but I guess that will be farther off into the future now that I will have to work my way again into the serps.

    So I guess you're right that this recent change does not involve adsense or spammy ads. I'm very interested in making a privacy policy page since that's one thing I haven't tried yet. Do you have any template or website I can check to copy a privacy policy page from?

    Thanks for the post. Your suggestions looked like spot on and there's no harm in trying them.
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  • Profile picture of the author Greenfatman
    Great thread, I think for just who falled on the google trap, can follow these suggestions.

    I have a site of 3 post 300 words + policy, about, contact pages it was in spot 1# on google, I had some gigs from fiverr, after 3 months disappeared completly.I did nothing to put it back, jusk came in spot 1# the other day and right now after this new update it's spot #3.

    To press realese a site, it needs to be new?

    Regards,
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    • Profile picture of the author easyrider7
      My affiliate site lost all its Google rankings two days ago. A few hours before this happened I suddenly got a big boost in my rankings to the highest level they had ever been. I was getting excited and then bang - all gone! BTW, I haven't been doing anything remotely naughty by Google's standards.
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  • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
    Originally Posted by John Moore View Post

    2) Make sure you have a privacy policy and contact details clearly visible somewhere, ideally on their own inner pages. Google likes to show sites which have stated policies, this helps cover their butt as well.
    This is complete BS.

    I have privacy policies on less than 10% of my websites. Those are the only ones showing AdSense ads. I very rarely see any of my sites do any dancing. The ones that have bounced around have almost always been the AdSense sites.

    The privacy policy has nothing to do with authority or quality of a website. It has everything to do with Google covering its butt on AdSense.
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    • Profile picture of the author LiftMyRank
      Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

      This is complete BS.

      I have privacy policies on less than 10% of my websites. Those are the only ones showing AdSense ads. I very rarely see any of my sites do any dancing. The ones that have bounced around have almost always been the AdSense sites.

      The privacy policy has nothing to do with authority or quality of a website. It has everything to do with Google covering its butt on AdSense.
      Geez, someone is a little sensitive, no need to make a snide remark, I simply stated this was my opinion to help remain in good stead with google and that it can only help, never did i say it was necessary to prevent dancing, this is just my opinion, hope you can understand that without making derogatory remarks.
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      • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
        Originally Posted by John Moore View Post

        Geez, someone is a little sensitive, no need to make a snide remark, I simply stated this was my opinion to help remain in good stead with google and that it can only help, never did i say it was necessary to prevent dancing, this is just my opinion, hope you can understand that without making derogatory remarks.
        I'm not sensitive at all. It wasn't a snide remark. It was just pointing out something that is pure speculation with nothing to back it up.

        If you are going to post something like that, then back it up with some proof. Show everyone a SERP where the top pages have privacy policies and there is another page that has an equally good backlink profile, onpage SEO factors, and content, but is inexplicably ranked lower. The only difference being the privacy policy.

        You said,
        Google likes to show sites which have stated policies
        Where is the proof of this?


        Now, does it hurt to have a privacy policy? No, of course not. Do visitors care if there is a privacy policy? I think in the vast majority of cases, probably not. I know I certainly do not go seeking them out when I visit a page.
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  • Profile picture of the author Bank
    Thanks John for your post! much appreciated, and I agree with you, having a privacy page can only help your trust profile, definitely won't hurt it, thanks again.
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  • Profile picture of the author Josh MacDonald
    The Google Dance is good. It's showing you that Google is aware of your SEO efforts. I build links until the Google dance, then I just wait it out and slowly stop building links.
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  • Profile picture of the author 36burrows
    Your site will always dance around the results as you build links which is normal, but this is excellent advice for not getting sandboxed for months on end which is what happened to one of my first sites.
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    • Profile picture of the author LiftMyRank
      Originally Posted by Bank View Post

      Thanks John for your post! much appreciated, and I agree with you, having a privacy page can only help your trust profile, definitely won't hurt it, thanks again.
      Your welcome, thanks.

      Originally Posted by Josh MacDonald View Post

      The Google Dance is good. It's showing you that Google is aware of your SEO efforts. I build links until the Google dance, then I just wait it out and slowly stop building links.
      Agreed, I like to keep building links into the dance.

      Originally Posted by 36burrows View Post

      Your site will always dance around the results as you build links which is normal, but this is excellent advice for not getting sandboxed for months on end which is what happened to one of my first sites.
      Your welcome, and agreed, it's normal to dance, however you can minimize the effects.
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  • Profile picture of the author rakesh1600193
    There is nothing like sandbox.

    Yes if your site is fluctuating it juts because of you are making lot of backlinks

    But this is temporary continue with your work. You will be settled with in few days.
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    • Profile picture of the author silverage
      Originally Posted by rakesh1600193 View Post

      There is nothing like sandbox.

      Yes if your site is fluctuating it juts because of you are making lot of backlinks

      But this is temporary continue with your work. You will be settled with in few days.
      Thanks for your input rakesh1600193. It's always hard for online businesses to distinguish between high priced SEO companies and the few who actually deliver results for them.

      Clearly, since you are the only person on here who doesn't believe there is such a thing as the sandbox, I'm sure you've helped many people wanting the services of an SEO company to get one step closer to making the right decision.

      Thank you for a great post John. New sites are always susceptible to the sandbox and you will rarely be advised about a potential problem, never mind how to do your best to avoid it.
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  • Profile picture of the author adammck
    Thanks for the post, I've taken some advice and updated my site which lost a lot of rankings just recently.
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    • Profile picture of the author westportclan
      Great post. Some good advice which I am putting to use right now as I try to get my site out of the sandbox/dance and back onto the radar. There must be more methods of speeding up the process of getting back onto Google's radar after being dumped to page 50+. Sitting waiting seems unnatural.
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  • Profile picture of the author dagaul101
    Nice tips, the salient points is to make it look as natural as possible, which is what Google wants
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  • Profile picture of the author dofollow
    Pretty lengthy post but the topic is great and the post itself is definitely worth the Bookmark. Will surely come back to it later.
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  • Profile picture of the author anwar001
    These are nice tips. Though I don't agree with some of the points, but over all these are good guidelines for people to follow for new sites.
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  • Profile picture of the author WorkitSmart
    Originally Posted by John Moore View Post

    6) Be patient, seriously, dancing or sandbox isn't something to freak out about, as long as you remain in the index you will always come back, it's just a matter of when, some penalties last 50 days, others 90 days, other 180 days, however you can change these automatic time lapses by altering your link profile and more importantly your on-page where most of the penalties originate from.
    John, Can you plz explain what you mean "by altering your link profile" as found in the above quote?

    Also, how do we alter our link profile..

    thx, d
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    • Profile picture of the author troybh
      Seriously paying $300 a year for the yahoo directory? Seems like a wasted $300 to me.
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      • Profile picture of the author LiftMyRank
        Originally Posted by adammck View Post

        Thanks for the post, I've taken some advice and updated my site which lost a lot of rankings just recently.
        Your welcome.

        Originally Posted by westportclan View Post

        Great post. Some good advice which I am putting to use right now as I try to get my site out of the sandbox/dance and back onto the radar. There must be more methods of speeding up the process of getting back onto Google's radar after being dumped to page 50+. Sitting waiting seems unnatural.
        Just keeping adding unique content to your site and keep drip feeding links.

        Originally Posted by dagaul101 View Post

        Nice tips, the salient points is to make it look as natural as possible, which is what Google wants
        Exactly!

        Originally Posted by dofollow View Post

        Pretty lengthy post but the topic is great and the post itself is definitely worth the Bookmark. Will surely come back to it later.
        Thanks!

        Originally Posted by anwar001 View Post

        These are nice tips. Though I don't agree with some of the points, but over all these are good guidelines for people to follow for new sites.
        Thanks!

        Originally Posted by WorkitSmart View Post

        John, Can you plz explain what you mean "by altering your link profile" as found in the above quote?

        Also, how do we alter our link profile..

        thx, d
        Try and diversify the incoming anchor text to your site, don't have 90% of your links containing the same keyword, try and build links with the anchor text "click here", "more info here", "find out more", etc.....make it look natural to google, don't leave footprints of manipulation.

        Originally Posted by troybh View Post

        Seriously paying $300 a year for the yahoo directory? Seems like a wasted $300 to me.
        May I ask what site you've tryed this on and didn't see an effect?
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  • Profile picture of the author estherselenne
    Banned
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    • Profile picture of the author troybh
      Well google has stated ever so clearly that they do not like or give credit for paid backlinks. Google used to suggest submitting to yahoo but doesnt anymore. Yahoo directory is probably giving you no juice at all. I never tried it but was wondering if you are sure of the positive effects of the yahoo directory. Seems like you were doing a lot of other things so I assume you are not sure about this effect.
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  • Profile picture of the author shafiqkamal
    hi,

    thanks for the tips. i have a question though. i am not sure if my website is sandboxed or not. in total, i have 9 urls in my current website to rank for. out of the 9 urls, only 2 are found as according to sescout. i've checked in google to see if my website have been indexed by entering "site:http://mysite.com" and it shows that my site has been indexed. It has been 2 weeks since I've added my content and this is the 2nd week where i'm suppose to start my linkbuilding stage.

    so my question is, is my site being sandboxed? if so, what do you think i should do to get it out of there? or, is it safe to just forget that site and build a new one instead?
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  • Profile picture of the author onlineweb
    Hi John

    Very useful information to get out of sandbox. Thanks for good stuff.

    By the way how often you (we) have to do Press Release for a site? Is one time enough or...?
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  • Profile picture of the author Theeban
    Those are useful information, unique content and quality backlinks are very important to get rank on Google. At the same time, I do not think we have to spend $299 with yahoo to get listed, instead, we can go for about 3-4 local directories which have at least PR5 or so and get free links - That will give a good impression about the site to Google.
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    • Profile picture of the author willcraw88
      Is it good for SEO to change the title and description tags of a site to help with avoiding sandboxing and/or google dance? I am new to SEO and would like to know as I too have experienced sandboxing and the infamous google dance recently with my site which hit the 1st page at #1 of google and then danced between page 1 and page 5 for weeks now! :confused:

      Any help would be appreciated.

      Thanks

      Will
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  • Profile picture of the author gearmonkey
    Originally Posted by John Moore View Post

    6) Don't do forum profile blasts directly to your money site! This is probably the biggest cause of penalities and the associated dancing/sandbox effects. In fact try and steer clear of any backlink vendor that uses automated software to create your links, it's just not good to get 1000s of link farm links in a short period of time. Build your links consistently.
    Bingo!

    This here is the main cause for major Google dance/sandbox. I've learned the hard way that it's better to get 1 PR6 backlink instead of a 50,000 scrapebox spam comments or forum profile blasts.
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  • Profile picture of the author braydenblake
    Awesome resource indeed, thank you so much for sharing this.
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