At Last! The Seo Magic Bullet...

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  • SEO
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Get hit hard by Panda?... Sucks, doesn't it!
Google is so mean and unfair aye?

Um No!..

Just remember, Every time someone goes down in rankings it also means someone else is going up.

I see so many threads here, (and many other places,) Where people want to know the secret to seo, the magic bullet to backlinks, How dense should my keywords be, Should I still leave replies on no follow blog comments etc...

The truth is... Who cares.

I just read a great post here..
Never Worry About an Algorithm Update Again, a History | SEOmoz

It sums up the whole seo thing rather nicely I think. Real seo is just simply good marketing. Offering an amazing product and getting real people engaged with your site/brand. It's about adding real value to peoples lives.

I mean think about it...

Go to alexa.com and have a look at the top trafficked (..Is that a word? I'm not sure,) sites. They are all the big brands like google, facebook etc. Now do a backlink check on those sites.

Wow! They have a rather impressive amount of those backlinks thingys don't they!

Now, Do you think they have an seo team that goes out and posts articles on article directories. Or people that post spammy comments on other peoples blogs all day to get those backlinks.

NO. Of course not.

Instead they have added some sort of REAL VALUE to the world.

The problem with this for many people is that this tactic is not a get rich overnight scheme... INFACT it might even be considered by some as HARD WORK. And so they keep using their article spinners and those crappy forum profile creation bot thingy-ma-jigs..

Which is all fine and good. I mean these tactics do work of course.

FOR NOW...

But there will come a day when they won't.

The Question is...

Are you going to be worried when that day comes?

or...

Are you not even going to notice because you are just too busy adding value to your market and therefore unaffected by the change?

Thanks, Peter
#backlinks #blackhat #bullet #keywords #magic #seo #whitehat
  • Profile picture of the author nunugenius
    thanks peter, inspirate

    doing old class at panda atmosphere
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  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    No offense & I'm all for quality, but that articles main goal is to sell a $399 product (see 2nd hyperlink in the article (link in OP)).

    Chances are very high, that's a paid link.
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    • Profile picture of the author Peter ONeill
      Originally Posted by yukon View Post

      No offense & I'm all for quality, but that articles main goal is to sell a $399 product (see 2nd hyperlink in the article (link in OP)).
      Hi Yuhon,

      Yeah I can appreciate what you are saying, but I don't think them having a link in their post that leads to a sales page in anyway dilutes the message.

      Thanks, Peter
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  • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
    Originally Posted by Peter ONeill View Post



    I mean think about it...

    Go to alexa.com and have a look at the top trafficked (..Is that a word? I'm not sure,) sites. They are all the big brands like google, facebook etc. Now do a backlink check on those sites.

    Wow! They have a rather impressive amount of those backlinks thingys don't they!

    Now, Do you think they have an seo team that goes out and posts articles on article directories.
    I've thought about it. Those companies all have marketing departments and full time public relation employees. Most got seed funded with multi million dollar venture capitalist funds. They also have a team of full time nicely paid programmers

    They bear little resemblance to the average Joe or Jane at WF. No magic bullet just a ton load of cash that most do not have.
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    • Profile picture of the author Peter ONeill
      Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

      I've thought about it. Those companies all have marketing departments and full time public relation employees. Most got seed funded with multi million dollar venture capitalist funds. They also have a team of full time nicely paid programmers

      They bear little resemblance to the average Joe or Jane at WF. No magic bullet just a ton load of cash that most do not have.
      Hi Mike,

      I think you bring up a great point.

      I agree with you. They have far greater resources than what most of us do... But I also don't think most of us are trying to be the number one site in the world. And I don't think we have to have a boat load of cash to provide great value to our market.

      Here is an example perhaps a little closer to home for us I.Mers.

      I quite like reading the thinktraffic blog. Now I can't remember how long this blog has been going, but I think it is less than two years. His posts tend to be well thought out and thorough (No crappy 300 word articles bought from fiverr).. I.e they add real value to my life.

      I just did this search in google

      links:thinktraffic.net

      It came back with 25,200 results.

      As far as I am aware they are whitehat, just accumulating natural links from real people that see real value in the site.

      Also while I am talking about thinktraffic here is a link to a thinktraffic video that is talking very much about this same topic.


      How Fraser Cain Attracts 80,000 Search Visitors Per Day with Zero Link Building

      Wow! it's a great video... This guy gets 80,000 visitors a day. Crazy!


      Infact it's so good that I just gave it a backlink.

      Hmm How about that!

      Cheers, Peter.
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      • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
        Originally Posted by Peter ONeill View Post


        Infact it's so good that I just gave it a backlink.

        Hmm How about that!

        Cheers, Peter.
        Sorry to burst your bubble peter but I had a discussion with this same site owner not too long ago thats somewhere here on WF and as I recall I ran the backlink check on his site and found There WERE links built to the site tht were not organic. Seems like the same guy because he was selling his keyword tool as well. Not recently built links but he did not just build it and they came. There were links built.
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      • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
        This is the analogy I would use as far as the difference between putting up a site with great content and doing link building vs. putting up a site with great content and not building any links.

        It is like opening a restaurant with incredible food, an unbeatable menu, a wonderful beer selection with no Coors Lite, Bud Light, or any other crap (this is one of my top requirements for a good restaurant ), hiring the best chef around, finding and training the most incredible wait staff, and then just opening the doors. No sign out on the street. No newspaper ads. No radio ads. No TV ads. Not even a website.

        You are just hoping that people somehow notice the building, get curious enough to stop in, are overwhelmed with the great service and amazing food, and then tell all their friends about it.

        Now that may or it may not happen. But wouldn't your restaurant stand a much greater chance of succeeding if you marketed it?
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        • Profile picture of the author Peter ONeill
          Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

          This is the analogy I would use as far as the difference between putting up a site with great content and doing link building vs. putting up a site with great content and not building any links.

          It is like opening a restaurant with incredible food, an unbeatable menu, a wonderful beer selection with no Coors Lite, Bud Light, or any other crap (this is one of my top requirements for a good restaurant ), hiring the best chef around, finding and training the most incredible wait staff, and then just opening the doors. No sign out on the street. No newspaper ads. No radio ads. No TV ads. Not even a website.

          You are just hoping that people somehow notice the building, get curious enough to stop in, are overwhelmed with the great service and amazing food, and then tell all their friends about it.

          Now that may or it may not happen. But wouldn't your restaurant stand a much greater chance of succeeding if you marketed it?
          Hi Mike,
          I really like your post and I think it makes a lot of sense. As I have now mention a couple times in this thread (But had failed to mention in my op and before you had posted your post, but I have now discussed in post #19 and #20) I am not at all against backlinks. I am all for promoting yourself on the internet and as a result this will lead to backlinks.

          Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

          ..and then just opening the doors. No sign out on the street. No newspaper ads. No radio ads. No TV ads. Not even a website.
          As I mentioned in my OP I believe that real seo is just good marketing. So in terms of relating this to your great metaphor above this would relate to the part where you mention advertising etc.

          In others words what you are saying is find where your market is hanging out and send them a message that is relevant to there interests and explains the benefits they will get from doing business with you.


          In contrast however doing low value backlinking such as comment spam and forum profile linking using automated software is a very different metaphor all together.

          That's kind of like finding out my local newspaper (which has a HUGE following) is running a competition to find the best restaurant in town. Readers have to phone in to vote. (After all a backlink is just like a vote too)

          I find a way to block my phone number and so therefore I can call in and vote many times with out the newspaper knowing. As a result I win. I get lots visitors as a result of the publicity.

          But OH NO..

          The News paper improves it's phone system and it can now see that I cheated.

          Oh SNAP.

          As a result I am banned from entering the competition ever again and the paper corrects its mistake and tells everyone of the real winner. People stop coming in and life sucks once again.

          Dam it!

          Thanks, Peter
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      • Profile picture of the author yukon
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Peter ONeill View Post

        Hi Mike,

        I think you bring up a great point.

        I agree with you. They have far greater resources than what most of us do... But I also don't think most of us are trying to be the number one site in the world. And I don't think we have to have a boat load of cash to provide great value to our market.

        Here is an example perhaps a little closer to home for us I.Mers.

        I quite like reading the thinktraffic blog. Now I can't remember how long this blog has been going, but I think it is less than two years. His posts tend to be well thought out and thorough (No crappy 300 word articles bought from fiverr).. I.e they add real value to my life.

        I just did this search in google

        links:thinktraffic.net

        It came back with 25,200 results.

        As far as I am aware they are whitehat, just accumulating natural links from real people that see real value in the site.

        Also while I am talking about thinktraffic here is a link to a thinktraffic video that is talking very much about this same topic.


        How Fraser Cain Attracts 80,000 Search Visitors Per Day with Zero Link Building

        Wow! it's a great video... This guy gets 80,000 visitors a day. Crazy!


        Infact it's so good that I just gave it a backlink.

        Hmm How about that!

        Cheers, Peter.
        Lol, another link selling a product.

        I'm not trying to be a smart azz, but both links are a sales pitch.

        I watched the video & realized that guy is a member here on WF, I remember the domain.

        First he doesn't care about which keywords he ranks for, then the sales pitch kicks in & all of a sudden keywords are his main goal.

        Typical sales pitch...

        Lol, click the link in the quote above (No links for you! (soup nazi on Seinfeld).
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        • Profile picture of the author Buyseech
          Originally Posted by yukon View Post


          Lol, click the link in the quote above (No links for you! (soup nazi on Seinfeld).
          Ok i just pissed in my pants. LOL Soup nazi

          But jokes aside, these 20 posts on the forum and sales letter pitchčposts are getting a bit annoying. I sometimes promote a post, which has no products etc to sell, but its related,free and useful.

          Hopefully this issue gets resolved soon.

          Sincerely, Buyseech
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  • Profile picture of the author Goath
    @ Peter

    Some niches are too small to "let the customers to do the SEO for you"..

    You are completely right. But the strategy yo outlined should ONLY be considered by people who are ONLY focusing on their MAIN business.

    If you are building a lot of niche websites to make A LOT of money... you don't have the time for that bull-SHEIZE!
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    • Profile picture of the author Peter ONeill
      Originally Posted by Goath View Post

      @ Peter

      Some niches are too small to "let the customers to do the SEO for you"..
      Hi Goath, Yeah some niches are much harder than others to get this kind of thing going...

      Also some of them are just a bit more boring to the end user, (so therefore less likely to get links naturally.) For example, A local plumbers site.
      However this does not mean it can't be done. With a bit of clever marketing I'm sure it could.

      Originally Posted by Goath View Post


      If you are building a lot of niche websites to make A LOT of money... you don't have the time for that bull-SHEIZE!
      Yes your right. This wouldn't work if your doing a lot of niche sites in which you don't have the time....

      But thats kind of the point really. As the years go on and competition grows and search engines get smarter there will come a day where niche sites won't be such a quick throw up kind of job. (I'm not suggesting that they are now.. Just that they will require even more work.)

      The sites that will do well and outrank the competition will be the market leaders... The sites that real people find valuable.

      Thanks, Peter
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  • Profile picture of the author Charley Brown
    Mike, that is an excellent analogy.

    Great content is definitely important, but you are shorting yourself if you think that great content alone will bring in organic traffic and make you a ton of money.
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    • Profile picture of the author packerfan
      Here's the SEO magic bullet...

      Think like a real company...

      1. Actually have something of value to offer, and have a market identified to sell to.

      2. Submit a press release or 10 like any real business would do.

      3. Do a little link building, blog commenting, guest posting, etc.

      3. Use paid advertising (call it paid links if you want), might be a service or just buying some links.

      4. I guess that's about it.

      If you're offering something of real value, you'll get some natural links. But until that happens you better submit some press releases, build some links, etc.

      There's no magic bullet. The game never really changes. People just have a fundamental misunderstanding of what they're trying to accomplish. If you thought of your micro niche site as a real business, and made every decision accordingly, think of how differently you'd do things.

      Would you go spam a forum, or actually offer value so the people that click through the link on your signature already like you?

      Would you spam blogs, or offer genuine value to the discussion and try to build real relationships with the blog owner?

      Would you build 10,000 profile links or would you write 1 killer guest post for your new blogger friend?
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      • Profile picture of the author Peter ONeill
        Originally Posted by packerfan View Post

        Here's the SEO magic bullet...

        There's no magic bullet. The game never really changes. People just have a fundamental misunderstanding of what they're trying to accomplish. If you thought of your micro niche site as a real business, and made every decision accordingly, think of how differently you'd do things.

        Would you go spam a forum, or actually offer value so the people that click through the link on your signature already like you?

        Would you spam blogs, or offer genuine value to the discussion and try to build real relationships with the blog owner?

        Would you build 10,000 profile links or would you write 1 killer guest post for your new blogger friend?
        Hi packerfan,

        Great post, thanks for sharing. I think you sum things up rather nicely

        Cheers, Peter
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  • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
    Pete I was able to locate the thread here

    http://www.warriorforum.com/adsense-...traffic-2.html

    in post 52 I believe I showed that the site in question CLEARLY utilized backlinking by using a number of "add my URL" like directory links. Cain never denied it though responding to me several times.
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    • Profile picture of the author Peter ONeill
      Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

      Pete I was able to locate the thread here

      http://www.warriorforum.com/adsense-...traffic-2.html

      in post 52 I believe I showed that the site in question CLEARLY utilized backlinking by using a number of "add my URL" like directory links. Cain never denied it though responding to me several times.
      Hi Mike,

      Thanks for sharing
      A very interesting read indeed.

      First of all let me clarify to everyone.. I am not against link building at all. But I am against linkbuilding that doesn't add value. (and yes I agree the directory listings mentioned in your link probably don't add much value.)

      I'm not against them because I think they are bad or evil or anything like that. But because I don't believe they will give you as great a return on investment in the long term.

      (Obviously I can't back that up with stats as the future is not ours to see. It is just a philosophy that I hold by observing how the search engines have evolved in the last ten years and then imaging them getting smarter as the years go by.)

      Building backlinks in ways that add value and that you can leverage I find are much better (and if I'm totally honest with you I simply find them more fun.)

      A great example of backlinking that I am a fan of is guestblogging. Your doing it to get a backlink from a high pr site and if they have a good amount of traffic as well as your article actually being great you are quite likely to get natural backlinks to that article as well as real people who will start to follow your brand.

      When we talk about "backlinking" like this it is just another word for "good marketing" really.

      Sure universetoday.com would probably have less seo traffic if they didn't have those links you mentioned. But they probably would have even far less traffic if they just had crappy articles that didn't add value.

      Another point worth discussing is that ultimately we as marketers are not really after backlinks, or high rankings.. We are really after traffic that in turn leads to some sort of conversion. (ie a Sale, opt-in etc.)

      In this sense having valuable content will help kill two birds with one stone, as it very quickly builds the trust from your reader that is needed in order for the conversion to take place.

      Going back to thinktraffic as an example and bearing in mind the concept that when we take a look at the big picture we aren't really interested in rankings or backlinks but rather traffic and conversions it is quite interesting to look at thinktraffics monthly report.

      December 2011 Monthly Report – Think Traffic and Expert Enough

      Now obviously in terms of conversions he doesn't share his sales figures here (for thinktraffic at least.. he does mention his other blogs sales.) But we can see new sign ups, retweets etc. And they are not bad.

      Another thing that is interesting is the number of returning visitors. 40%

      Why is this important to the seo statergy of "adding value" you might ask?

      Well it shows that the benefit of creating valuable content is not exclusive to "getting backlinks." Your return on investment is also Trust, more "direct traffic", and more "referring traffic".

      As the years go by I am sure Seo as a service will merge more with conversion rate optimisation.

      And Value content will be at the heart of this.

      Now for another example of getting backlinks by creating value check this out...

      links:conversionxl.com

      5,100 backlinks. Not Bad for a blog that is a couple of months old.

      Now I haven't gone through all the links to see if there are any directory links
      or anything like that. There might be. But really who cares if there are a few. The value content is much more likely to be the cause of his traffic successes.

      Thanks, Peter
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  • Profile picture of the author FreeMeal
    I've had a little web directory for years and it still surprises me how many massive global brands are still paying SEO companies to post links on my directory*, and no doubt many others. They're probably getting forum profile links and blog comments too!

    So yes, even the big players are paying for crappy links to boost their SERP's (Granted Google and facebook are highly unlikely to be).

    *EDIT* lol. I wonder if i could get a few mega-corporations de-indexed by showing Google their recipes?!! >
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  • Profile picture of the author patrich
    Originally Posted by Peter ONeill View Post


    I mean think about it...

    Go to alexa.com and have a look at the top trafficked (..Is that a word? I'm not sure,) sites. They are all the big brands like google, facebook etc. Now do a backlink check on those sites.

    Wow! They have a rather impressive amount of those backlinks thingys don't they!

    Now, Do you think they have an seo team that goes out and posts articles on article directories. Or people that post spammy comments on other peoples blogs all day to get those backlinks.

    NO. Of course not.

    Instead they have added some sort of REAL VALUE to the world.
    If you believe that any of those sites gained their popularity purely from publishing good content, you are very naive to say the least.

    Even if indirectly, they were building and paying for backlinks just like everyone else does. You can pay to be a member of a blog network and submit posts for backlinks, or you can pay for mainstream advertising to get noticed and gain backlinks that way, but it all boils down to the same thing, paying for promotion and marketing, most marketers just don't have the money to pay for TV promos or print advertising.

    Ever seen a movie or tv show where someone says "Just Google it"? You do know that is advertising right, the producers were payed to include that line, it wasn't included because they liked the site. It's called "Product Placement", every time you watch a movie and see a can of Pepsi in the background, the producers were payed for that soda can to be there.

    Sites like Google and Facebook spend millions of dollars on backlinks, they just do it in a "round a bout" way, through other marketing platforms.

    I firmly believe in quality content and adding value and appreciate the message that you conveyed in regards to both, however, quality content alone isn't going to get you very far. You have to bring people to that content, for anyone to realize that it is quality in the first place and in order to do that, you need backlinks or marketing in one form or another.
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    • Profile picture of the author Peter ONeill
      Hi Patrich,
      Thanks for your insights,

      Originally Posted by patrich View Post

      Even if indirectly, they were building and paying for backlinks just like everyone else does. You can pay to be a member of a blog network and submit posts for backlinks, or you can pay for mainstream advertising to get noticed and gain backlinks that way, but it all boils down to the same thing, paying for promotion and marketing, most marketers just don't have the money to pay for TV promos or print advertising.

      Ever seen a movie or tv show where someone says "Just Google it"? You do know that is advertising right, the producers were payed to include that line, it wasn't included because they liked the site. It's called "Product Placement", every time you watch a movie and see a can of Pepsi in the background, the producers were payed for that soda can to be there.

      Sites like Google and Facebook spend millions of dollars on backlinks, they just do it in a "round a bout" way, through other marketing platforms.

      I firmly believe in quality content and adding value and appreciate the message that you conveyed in regards to both, however, quality content alone isn't going to get you very far. You have to bring people to that content, for anyone to realize that it is quality in the first place and in order to do that, you need backlinks or marketing in one form or another.
      I agree with what you have said here Patrich. Like I said in my original post "Real seo is just simply good marketing"

      One thing I didn't mention however in my original post is that I am not at all against creating backlinks. (I have however now mentioned this in post #19 where I explain in more detail as to why.)

      When I use the word "Marketing" I am using it in its traditional sense.

      Product.
      Price.
      Promotion.
      Distribution.

      The internet is just another type of "promotion" channel as well as being just another type of "Distribution" channel.

      So paying for a genuine promotion that indirectly leads to backlinks very much fits into My "real seo is just good marketing" statement.

      Originally Posted by patrich View Post

      If you believe that any of those sites gained their popularity purely from publishing good content, you are very naive to say the least.
      I never said they gained popularity from publishing good content. I said they added great value to people lives. This is a different concept indeed.

      And going back to the traditional sense of marketing (as mentioned above) this fits in to the "product" category. Using google and facebook as an example again. There success is not down to having good content but rather having a unique product, (some might argue against this ) that solves a problem for their market.

      In this sense we can see that seo is not a stand alone branch of internet marketing and that by having a great marketing mix which adds value to your target markets life will give you a return on investment (via backlinks, build up trust, increased conversions, brand loyalty etc) which is far greater than that of doing something simply just to try and trick an algorithm to increased our serp rankings, only to find you are dumped back down again the next time there is a major algorithm update.


      Thanks, Peter
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