The end of all Rental Contextual backlink Networks? What would you do?

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A student of mine forwarded an interesting video from Terry Kyle (a guy some of you may know) over the weekend to me. With the closing of BMR taking new subscribers and all the reports of sites getting deindexed it was interesting since Terry ran a home page backlink service and now says they are near dead EXCEPT for highly specialized and private ones.

Reports are coming in from a lot of sources that Google is on the prowl but it was to be expected. Home page backlinks , BMR etc have all one HUGE flaw. they are just too easy for anyone to see what they are doing. It takes about five seconds to identify a rental blog network site. Worse they are wide open to the public. Anyone with a couple of dollars can put up a few dollars and in time see huge amount of the domains in use. If Google is on the hunt for these services to deindex them then they can get them easily . Period

Its worth it to point out to those who think this is the end of all contextual links that it is nothing even close. If it is at the end its just the end of rental networks. Way before there were home page backlink providers there were networks that helped ranked sites and there will forever be. Those domains can be setup differently and are not obvious like seeing a hundred links from a hundred different niches on one page or a bunch of near worthless 300 word articles all with links. I haven't had any of my sites deindexed but they are not up for rental spots and I can control quality for myself and clients. So the technique is not dead but cheap rental might be.

So is he right? are they dead? and if so how will Imers counteract that? Google has lowered the value of almost all other kinds of links most Imers relied on

Article directory links
Forum profilelinks
Web 2.0 links etc.

It would take a whole lot more work now to rank than it did even a year and a half ago and the next Panda update is waiting in the wings.
#backlink #contextual #end #networks #rental
  • Profile picture of the author outwest
    Basically so what, Is my take
    If and I said IF this were true, the algo will catch everyone abusing it and it will catch your competition outranking you because of it, so we are all in the same boat

    its not as if there is a certain class of people who can get away with it, and others cant

    so if it does happen, it will even the playing field and IMO make it EASIER to rank in many cases for high competition kws since everyone will be playing with the same rules
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by outwest View Post

      Basically so what, Is my take
      If and I said IF this were true, the algo will catch everyone abusing it and it will catch your competition outranking you because of it, so we are all in the same boat

      its not as if there is a certain class of people who can get away with it, and others cant
      Really Has nothing to do with a class of people though- only to do with how the sites are setup. it will never affect all your competition because not everyone sets their sites up the same way or use rental networks. Losing link opportunities never makes it easier only harder to rank. You are just assuming that all your competitors would be doing the exact same thing. In most serps they are not.

      Frankly this affects Imers more. People with more money to spend will not be affected at all. No algo can determine that a link was or was not bought and no lgo can look at a site with good and relevant content to the links on it and determine it is not a legitimate link. An algo can spot too many links and potentially too many different subjects though so thats why services that only make money by adding more and more are getting dinged.
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  • Profile picture of the author MaverickUK
    Are you trying to plug your signature Mike? Seems like it to me.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by MaverickUK View Post

      Are you trying to plug your signature Mike? Seems like it to me.
      Good for you. I don't have affiliates or I would sign you up. If you knew anything about WF you would know that most people ignore sigs unless someone like you brings them up. So thanks for the extra advertising

      Fortunately or unfortunately I have nothing to do with what Terry Kyle said and thats what prompted this thread.
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  • Profile picture of the author dp40oz
    Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

    A student of mine forwarded an interesting video from Terry Kyle (a guy some of you may know) over the weekend to me. With the closing of BMR taking new subscribers and all the reports of sites getting deindexed it was interesting since Terry ran a home page backlink service and now says they are near dead EXCEPT for highly specialized and private ones.

    Reports are coming in from a lot of sources that Google is on the prowl but it was to be expected. Home page backlinks , BMR etc have all one HUGE flaw. they are just too easy for anyone to see what they are doing. It takes about five seconds to identify a rental blog network site. Worse they are wide open to the public. Anyone with a couple of dollars can put up a few dollars and in time see huge amount of the domains in use. If Google is on the hunt for these services to deindex them then they can get them easily . Period

    Its worth it to point out to those who think this is the end of all contextual links that it is nothing even close. If it is at the end its just the end of rental networks. Way before there were home page backlink providers there were networks that helped ranked sites and there will forever be. Those domains can be setup differently and are not obvious like seeing a hundred links from a hundred different niches on one page or a bunch of near worthless 300 word articles all with links. I haven't had any of my sites deindexed but they are not up for rental spots and I can control quality for myself and clients. So the technique is not dead but cheap rental might be.

    So is he right? are they dead? and if so how will Imers counteract that? Google has lowered the value of almost all other kinds of links most Imers relied on

    Article directory links
    Forum profilelinks
    Web 2.0 links etc.

    It would take a whole lot more work now to rank than it did even a year and a half ago and the next Panda update is waiting in the wings.
    Mike self owned networks are obviously a more natural and better way to do things if done properly but they're not for everyone. The problem lies in the upstart cost, maintenance and chance of monumental loss due to possible deindexing.

    When looking at ROI right now networks like BMR ect.. are a safer investment. They are still proven to work as of today (I can attest to that) and the risk is minimal because all you are investing is a small monthly payment. Sure your sites can tank but anybody relying on Google for money better be ready to move on to new sites because nobody is safe regardless. We are all playing the system and open to be hit regardless of how white hat seeming. Panda proved that even sites "playing by the rules" can get hit.

    Now if BMR and similar networks stop working like you claim they are, then thats a whole other story. But until that day the risk to ROI still favors them IMO.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by dp40oz View Post

      Mike your self owned networks are obviously a more natural and better way to do things if done properly. The problem lies in the upstart cost, maintenance and chance of monumental loss due to possible deindexing.
      Despite mavs comments my sole answer to this is NOT your own networks. Most Imers are not of the mind to build their own. thats why I said the days of "cheap" networks may be over and I think thats what Terry Kyle is getting at as well. Like I just said in another thread IMers are going to have to deal with providers that build their networks differently with an eye toward lower OBL and quality control. SO they are going to have to charge more. Thats why i asked the question - What will you do? Its not just about building networks because many cannot or will not

      We are all playing the system and open to be hit regardless of how white hat seeming. Panda proved that even sites "playing by the rules" can get hit.

      Now if BMR and similar networks stop working like you claim they are, then thats a whole other story. But until that day the risk to ROI still favors them IMO.
      This isn't about BMR not being worth the money. I've recommended them to people. What Terry's point is is that they cannot survive being deindexed by Google. They simply cannot buy new domains and set them up as fast as Google can deindex their investment. Has little to do with them working - THEY CLEARLY DO. Its about their survival not their effectiveness. Takes alot of money to buy aged domains with PR and setup these sites up. Its probably why BMR stopped taking new customers. IF they can limit their exposure they may be able to limit their risk and survive.
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      • Profile picture of the author dp40oz
        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

        Despite mavs comments my sole answer to this is NOT your own networks. Most Imers are not of the mind to build their own. thats why I said the days of "cheap" networks may be over and I think thats what Terry Kyle is getting at as well. Like I just said in another thread IMers are going to have to deal with providers that build their networks differently with an eye toward lower OBL and quality control. SO they are going to have to charge more. Thats why i asked the question - What will you do? Its not just about building networks because many cannot or will not



        This isn't about BMR not being worth the money. I've recommended them to people. What Terry's point is is that they cannot survive being deindexed by Google. They simply cannot buy new domains and set them up as fast as Google can deindex their investment. Has little to do with them working - THEY CLEARLY DO. Its about their survival not their effectiveness. Takes alot of money to buy aged domains with PR and setup these sites up. Its probably why BMR stopped taking new customers. IF they can limit their exposure they may be able to limit their risk and survive.
        To be honest with all that said I am tempted to buy your course.
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  • Profile picture of the author MaverickUK
    I think it's safe to say we can take what Terry Kyle says with a pinch of salt to be honest, there are many things he has claimed in the past that have turned out to not quite be as they seem. Hell, he even claimed there was epic stuff in his most recently released SEO course however it turned out to be low-grade crap that even Spongebob Squarepants would know.

    Anyway, i wasn't trying to offend you, it just seems that maybe you're trying to take advantage of all the scaremongering that has been going on lately. People keep waffling about how they are doomed and SEO or link networks are over, but that isn't the case and probably won't be for a very long time.

    But hey, none of us know what the big G are doing and never will. So let's just keep being skeptical eh!
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by MaverickUK View Post

      I think it's safe to say we can take what Terry Kyle says with a pinch of salt to be honest, there are many things he has claimed in the past that have turned out to not quite be as they seem
      I can agree with that. What he said about OBL not mattering to me was always pretty bad advice. I don't mention him as an expert but as guy that used to run a fairly popular home page network. That said he has put out some good stuff in these forums in the past and I do have a certain amount of respect for him.

      Hell, he even claimed there was epic stuff in his most recently released SEO course however it turned out to be low-grade crap that even Spongebob Squarepants would know.
      From what I saw of it it wasn't bad but look SEO courses will always get slapped by some because they assume everyone knows SEO. From what I see in these forums there are alot of people who would do well to take a course.

      Anyway, i wasn't trying to offend you, it just seems that maybe you're trying to take advantage of all the scaremongering that has been going on lately. People keep waffling about how they are doomed and SEO or link networks are over, but that isn't the case and probably won't be for a very long time.
      I'm sorry but I don't think you really know what is going on. I don't come from it from user angle and neither does Terry. We come at it from the SEO network builder angle and there is no scaremongering. its a FACT that many SEO networks have been deindexed. HPBS are not closing down service that made them serious cash just to "scaremonger". Sure some people are crying about their results etc but when you do an info search for your domain and it does not show up its not subjective. Its gone and so is your investment.

      If you must know I brought this subject up because I felt I have to both in private and in public because people associate home page backlink networks with SEO networks in general. I already got emails from clients asking me what I think about it. SO I am talking about it here as well. Will I point out how networks youown yourself or are run by other can be set up in a way that doesn't get them deindexed? Yes.

      I asked the question because HPBS may very well NOT be dead but there is no doubt that Google is after them. its not scaremongering to point out the evidence. The thing that people can do about those facts now is to choose not just the easiest networks that allow you to put up any junk but to pick networks that have quality policies that might survive (thats not a sig plug as I don't run any such rental services).

      Theres always another side to the scaremongering and thats those who just don't want to hear facts as long as they are not be affected. People are crying about loss rankings and complain as you want about that they are entitled on a board that is for such discussion.
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  • Profile picture of the author rjd1265
    BMR closed its doors bc they have too many members for the amount of quality blogs they have. If they signed more people up this would render the blogs useless.

    I still use them and have seen great results.

    My take on all this is so what....Once Google changes something there will be a team out there that already has the fix. Google knows it has to play somewhat nice with us. 95% of there money comes from advertising and if they piss us all off they will be done. You can only monopolize a market and play dictatorship for so long before you fall. It is a fact and has been proven for thousands of years.
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  • Profile picture of the author outwest
    BMR must be making like 100k per month
    just a guess
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  • Profile picture of the author Tom L
    I've done some tests with BMR. The sites that had 300+ links from them (set up around a year ago) all went from page 1 to 100+.

    BMR is still working but don't rely on it too heavily as in a few months you will cry... lol.

    Regards,

    TomL
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  • Profile picture of the author BarryOnline
    In terms of ranking, they do still work, that is why Google is deindexing them.

    HPBL's were gold but if not set up properly they are easy to spot. I think Google can find the poor quality ones algorithmically because they leave such a clear footprint.

    Quality HPBL networks now should look like real sites. People who build HPBL networks should ask themselves this question - Would my sites pass a manual review by Google?

    Gone are the days of just having a single page with links. Instead, each site should be niche specific, with plenty of pages of unique content, minimum OBL and look the part.
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  • Profile picture of the author patrich
    There has been a lot of buzz over the weekend and today about the recent unnatural link notices, deindexations and penalties from Google. I just wanted to point out that there was a new Panda update rolled out as well as a number of things changed in the algorithm, which is very likely the cause of a lot of these problems.

    I have seen probably a hundred different people today that are reporting these unnatural link emails from google, to the extent that a few people were thinking it was a system error on Google's part, which I highly doubt btw.

    Anyways, those that are looking for some answers might want to check out this article:

    More specifically, at the bottom of the page where it says:

    Panda update. This launch refreshes data in the Panda system, making it more accurate and more sensitive to recent changes on the web.
    and

    Link evaluation. We often use characteristics of links to help us figure out the topic of a linked page. We have changed the way in which we evaluate links; in particular, we are turning off a method of link analysis that we used for several years. We often rearchitect or turn off parts of our scoring in order to keep our system maintainable, clean and understandable.
    and

    Spam update. In the process of investigating some potential spam, we found and fixed some weaknesses in our spam protections.
    There are also a couple of mentions in that article about updating local search results and queries, which may be resulting in ranking decreases for many of those on the forum that are currently competing in local markets. So, they may think they have a penalty when in fact they were simply affected by the tweaks to the search results.
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  • Profile picture of the author RayW
    I really wish we had a Google employee on the forum.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by RayW View Post

      I really wish we had a Google employee on the forum.
      We could and he or she wouldn't say a word. Why would they put themselves at risk. In this case however none is needed. Multiple services are reporting loss of sites to deindexing. Its not just people complaining about their loss of position in the results.
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  • Profile picture of the author learnrope
    Google hates paid backlinks, To take the punch out of this industry, the quickest easiest way would be to hit a big dog. If Google identified many of BMR's blog network, then at the same day just deindexed or slapped all the sites that have paid to be on it, wouldn't that send a shiver down the IM spines. Would make Panada look nothing more than a zit (pimple) of a 13 year old boys face. I know of about 60 blogs that I believe are in their net work, following backlinks form two young sites I knew had had BMR campaigns. They stand out like a sore thumb, actually really stand out like a horny horse.

    All they (Google) have to do, is get 10 virgin blogs, do NO other marketing on them, go throw a few grand at BMR, then see the back links they find them selves, maybe get a human to check and confirm the footprint, then ad all the IM websites that blog is linking to and Slap them hard, until they are back on the WF begging.

    Last year Matt Cutts was pretty blunt about it, De-indexing was just a matter of time.
    http://www.youtube.com/GoogleWebmast...23/kFcJ7PaLoMw
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by learnrope View Post

      Google hates paid backlinks, To take the punch out of this industry, the quickest easiest way would be to hit a big dog.
      Actually it seems that has in fact happened with a bunch of services but you have to realize when a service gets hit with massive deindexing of their sites they are not likely to announce it to their subscribers. They are more likely to quietly deal with it. Unless some of their subscribers start checking on the domains they wouldn't even know they are hit. A deindexed site can still show PR in the toolbar

      So could BMR recently have just decided to close new users because they needed to upgrade etc? Sure but if the reason for the upgrades and having too many users for the sites they have was because a bunch were deindexed I wouldn't expect them to include that info. So you never know.
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