Next Google Update Targets "Over-Optimization"

by retsek
46 replies
  • SEO
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Cutts says they've been cooking up something over the last few months that will be released in about a month or so that will give sites with "great content" a better chance to rank versus sites with poorer content and strong SEO.

Source: Too Much SEO? Google

I thought Google was already doing this since 2004/5. My guess is they are just turning up the dial.

So if you've got a good site, you don't need to worry.

If you're the type that worries about keyword density, has tons of backlinks from few sources, has alot of reciprocal links, has too few anchor text variety ..then you have a heads up.
#“overoptimization” #“overoptimization” #google #targets #update
  • Profile picture of the author DPM70
    Lol - I've been looking forwards to this one

    p.s. that's a great example of poorly written content right there in that link. Ironic.
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  • Profile picture of the author JSProjects
    Finally, someone who gets it.

    People are worrying over nothing, IMO. There's a huge difference between GOOD on-page SEO and overly optimized / low quality pages. Just because you're targeting certain keywords and optimizing your pages for them does not mean Google is going to slap them.
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  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    Good, I get tired of explaining to others about over optimizing their sites pages (example: keyword stuffing). Thing's like keyword density, meta-keywords, meta-descriptions, etc..., maybe they'll finally start paying attention & realize those types of things are not SEO.

    I hope Google hammers the heck out of the SERPs this next update for over optimized pages.

    What's funny is I'm 99.9% sure that you won't see any Wikipedia pages fall in the SERPs after the next SERP update (or any SERP update). This is funny because people have all these wiki pages right in front of their faces in the SERPs, but they never pay attention to why those pages are ranked.

    Want to know the secret?

    Themed pages, & proper internal/external links.
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    • Profile picture of the author King444
      Originally Posted by yukon View Post

      Good, I get tired of explaining to others about over optimizing their sites pages (example: keyword stuffing). Thing's like keyword density, meta-keywords, meta-descriptions, etc..., maybe they'll finally start paying attention & realize those types of things are not SEO.

      I hope Google hammers the heck out of the SERPs this next update for over optimized pages.

      What's funny is I'm 99.9% sure that you won't see any Wikipedia pages fall in the SERPs after the next SERP update (or any SERP update). This is funny because people have all these wiki pages right in front of their faces in the SERPs, but they never pay attention to why those pages are ranked.

      Want to know the secret?

      Themed pages, & proper internal/external links.

      Yes, the very funny truth yukon is, that anyone is 100% sure that you won't see any Wikipedia pages fall in the SERPs after the next SERP update (or any SERP update).
      But not because of the themed pages and any proper internal or external links, but just for a very simple reason.

      Want to know the secret yukon?

      Nov 2011 Sergey Brin, the co-founder of Google and his wife just have donated $500.000 to Wikipedia. AND Feb 2010, Wikipedia Receives a $2 Million Contribution From Google..

      Take care
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  • Profile picture of the author retsek
    I'm thinking that this might hurt sites that follow this model ->

    Exact Match Domain + 5 Pages of Content (2 of them are privacy policy and contact form) + Low Value Links.

    With sites that narrow, they can't help but "over optimize" in order to rank. And right now rank they do.

    I have a large informational site - about 500 pages indexed each with 1500 words or more. The site is going after 400 keywords and it has just as many competitors that follow the exactmatch model I described above of each those keywords. Over the last 3 months, I've been observing that a lot of them are falling or completely out of SERPs. But alot still remain and these are the ones that are very aggressive with on-page optimization (keyword stuffing, meta & title tags abuse, no outbound links), and limited inbound anchor text.
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    • Profile picture of the author yukon
      Banned
      Originally Posted by retsek View Post

      I'm thinking that this might hurt sites that follow this model ->

      Exact Match Domain + 5 Pages of Content (2 of them are privacy policy and contact form) + Low Value Links.

      With sites that narrow, they can't help but "over optimize" in order to rank. And right now rank they do.

      I have a large informational site - about 500 pages indexed each with 1500 words or more. The site is going after 400 keywords and it has just as many competitors that follow the exactmatch model I described above of each those keywords. Over the last 3 months, I've been observing that a lot of them are falling or completely out of SERPs. But alot still remain and these are the ones that are very aggressive with on-page optimization (keyword stuffing, meta & title tags abuse, no outbound links), and limited inbound anchor text.
      I forgot about EMDs, that would be interesting to see If G targets those sites.

      If G does target EMDs, good grief, I can hear the sob stories already, this SEO forum will be the most active forum on WF for at least a month.
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    • Profile picture of the author karismasand
      When you realize guys that Google works only with robots with an algorithm that include some variables.

      Is very easy to manipulate Google in SERPS now and in future.

      Google check a site in meta and after Panda check the content.

      Is impossible that Google to check each site manually all google do is to run a robot to check some parts of a site.

      Google also relates to a site over time based on information received from Analytics and webmaster tools. If these statistics show that the site is not what the user seeks he penalize the site and gives to another site chance to rank in SERPS. Thinks like this is happen in every morning

      This is just my opinion ...
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  • Profile picture of the author retsek
    Exact Match isn't actually the problem. It's when the topic and content are so laser targeted that it gets to point of being thin and spammy. How great will the content be on a site like - BlueCanadianKingSizedBeds.com - for example.
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    • Profile picture of the author rjd1265
      SEO will never die. So lets so you have 1,000 sites competing for a keyword and they all sites were writen by professinal copywriters......how will they determine who goes 1st, who goes last....SEO of course.

      Remember, these are robots that scrape your sites and as far as I know there are no robots the can interpret human interest and actual "great" content.

      You guys get too scared over these "Google Updates" They update every week you just dont know about it!
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  • Profile picture of the author jinx1221
    I think they are just giving less weight to certain things as far as on-site SEO goes. I mean, your average joe with great content might not even know what a META tag is, yet on the other hand, your site is chock to the teeth perfect with SEO, as well as all your incoming links being your targeted keywords, you are trying to do things to boost your site's rank.. so, its like yeah, you arent blatantly trying to cheat the system since onpage seo and 'normal' backlinking is a common practice, but really, in a way we are trying to cheat the natural system.

    In other words, like they say about BAM businesses, 'location, location, location', we should be saying, 'quality content, quality content, quality content'
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  • Profile picture of the author DPM70
    "there are no robots the can interpret human interest and actual "great" content."

    Bounce rate and social sharing gets as close as dammit.
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    • Profile picture of the author jinx1221
      Originally Posted by DPM70 View Post

      "there are no robots the can interpret human interest and actual "great" content."

      Bounce rate and social sharing gets as close as dammit.
      What?! Hehe! :confused:
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      • Profile picture of the author DPM70
        Originally Posted by jinx1221 View Post

        What?! Hehe! :confused:
        What other metric do you suggest, that exists, for determining "great content" or "human interest"? We can talk about authority links, but we already know that. We can talk about good networks, but we already know that.

        What is coming will blow away spun content and unnatural link schemes. The algo has moved on. What we'll see is advances in lexicological interpretation and orders of magnitude changes in actor-network theory.

        It's nothing new. Google has pushed constantly. That's why they flourish.
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        • Profile picture of the author yukon
          Banned
          Great content is one thing, that's for human traffic.

          Great content that is structured in a logical way is what Google wants, which goes right back to what human traffic will appreciate from the webmaster, great content that is easy to navigate.

          I know everyone says "Well, I did on-page SEO", I look at their sites & see a typical site with over optimized spammy looking pages. You know, the keyword density guys.

          The old saying "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink" totally fits the SEO community, because most just will not open their eyes & try & learn long term SEO. They want the easy/cheap fiverr type BS way out of SEO, how's that working out?
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  • Profile picture of the author DPM70
    hup!

    well it's too bad - that our friends - can't be with us today (well, it's too bad)
    the machine - that we built - would never save us, that's what they say...
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    • Profile picture of the author jadesource
      There was an old SNL skit where there is a Scotch Tape Store in the mall and gets very little business, because it's TOO targeted to have a store that just sells scotch tape.

      Then there was I think the Simpsons episode where Flanders opens a store for Left Handed People.

      I always take comfort in the fact that it's not the EMD, but the quality of the EMD. Or the cleverness of it.

      I'll take comfort in the quality of my pages, and the normalcy and hopeful intelligence of my fuzzy logic in targeting the niches.

      Then try my best to serve the customers.
      Hope that works.

      Mark
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      • Profile picture of the author DPM70
        Originally Posted by jadesource View Post

        There was an old SNL skit where there is a Scotch Tape Store in the mall and gets very little business, because it's TOO targeted to have a store that just sells scotch tape.

        Then there was I think the Simpsons episode where Flanders opens a store for Left Handed People.

        I always take comfort in the fact that it's not the EMD, but the quality of the EMD. Or the cleverness of it.

        I'll take comfort in the quality of my pages, and the normalcy and hopeful intelligence of my fuzzy logic in targeting the niches.

        Then try my best to serve the customers.
        Hope that works.

        Mark
        Well thought out - and straight from the heart and head.
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  • Profile picture of the author gearmonkey
    I always thought keyword stuffing in articles would be easy for Google to detect. That's why I never employed that tactic is because I think G will crack down on it.
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  • Profile picture of the author yukon
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    Originally Posted by King444 View Post

    Yes, the very funny truth yukon is, that anyone is 100% sure that you won't see any Wikipedia pages fall in the SERPs after the next SERP update (or any SERP update).
    But not because of the themed pages and any proper internal or external links, but just for a very simple reason.

    Want to know the secret yukon?

    Nov 2011 Sergey Brin, the co-founder of Google and his wife just have donated $500.000 to Wikipedia. AND Feb 2010, Wikipedia Receives a $2 Million Contribution From Google..

    Take care



    That doesn't have anything to do with SEO.

    Wikipedia can be beat in the SERPs. My point is, wiki doesn't fluctuate in the SERPs like most sites, because wiki has tightly themed pages & good link patterns.

    Notice how wiki has a lot of multiple SERP listings for the same keywords, anyone can do the same multiple SERP listings per single keyword without shelling out $500K.
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    • Profile picture of the author King444
      Originally Posted by yukon View Post

      That doesn't have anything to do with SEO.

      Wikipedia can be beat in the SERPs. My point is, wiki doesn't fluctuate in the SERPs like most sites, because wiki has tightly themed pages & good link patterns.

      Notice how wiki has a lot of multiple SERP listings for the same keywords, anyone can do the same multiple SERP listings per single keyword without shelling out $500K.
      Sorry, but all of us diden't got a $2 Million contribution from google yukon..

      A totally inappropriate comparison!
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      • Profile picture of the author nik0
        Banned
        That certainly has to do with the fact that Google favours certain sites much more then others. Amazon ranks at page 1 for every single product related keyword, and that is not cause they have a great internal linking to all these single pages, Google favors them hugely above other sites.

        Why? Cause they think Amazon earned it's stripes and gives the end-consumer a good deal. I see tons of product keywords rank at page 1 that aren't linked to from any page except from a very deep inner category a like page with pr n/a as well.
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        • Profile picture of the author retsek
          Originally Posted by nik0 View Post

          That certainly has to do with the fact that Google favours certain sites much more then others. Amazon ranks at page 1 for every single product related keyword, and that is not cause they have a great internal linking to all these single pages, Google favors them hugely above other sites.

          Why? Cause they think Amazon earned it's stripes and gives the end-consumer a good deal. I see tons of product keywords rank at page 1 that aren't linked to from any page except from a very deep inner category a like page with pr n/a as well.
          Amazon, like Wikipedia, earned its positions in the serps through offering a good experience for the user and having a good internal site structure. Now you go get millions of links and Google will love you too.
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      • Profile picture of the author yukon
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        Originally Posted by King444 View Post

        Sorry, but all of us diden't got a $2 Million contribution from google yukon..

        A totally inappropriate comparison!
        I'm talking proven SEO.

        Your money talk doesn't have anything to do with SEO.

        Stop talking about money long enough to look around the SERPs & you'll see what works. Don't use some other guys money donations as an excuse for not ranking in the SERPs.
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        • Profile picture of the author karismasand
          Originally Posted by yukon View Post

          I'm talking proven SEO.

          Your money talk doesn't have anything to do with SEO.

          Stop talking about money long enough to look around the SERPs & you'll see what works. Don't use some other guys money donations as an excuse for not ranking in the SERPs.
          Yukon, did you know how much pay big insurance company to google to stay on first page (not adwords)?

          Go on to there site and tell me what SEO do you see there

          For Google money is everything, Google is not a charity organization ... believe me ...

          Also you are a very smart guy - i just wanna let you know my opinion about you
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          • Profile picture of the author BarryOnline
            Originally Posted by karismasand View Post

            did you know how much pay big insurance company to google to stay on first page (not adwords)?
            Big insurance companies pay Google to rank organicaly:confused: - So why do they spend millions on SEO?
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          • Profile picture of the author yukon
            Banned
            Originally Posted by karismasand View Post

            Yukon, did you know how much pay big insurance company to google to stay on first page (not adwords)?

            Go on to there site and tell me what SEO do you see there

            For Google money is everything, Google is not a charity organization ... believe me ...

            Also you are a very smart guy - i just wanna let you know my opinion about you


            See my forum sig. for a summary.

            I don't think anyone is buying organic SERP positions.

            Yes, I've been on plenty of high ranking insurance sites & the SEO is there to justify their SERP positions.

            I'm not sure why people conjure up SERP ideas when the SEO proof is directly in front of them? It seems like people want something to be wrong & working against them in the SERPs. I'm far from being perfect, but I know what SEO works for me & I also know that any SERP position is attainable depending on how much work a person wants to invest into that specific keyword.
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  • Profile picture of the author attorneydavid
    What's funny is he talked about excess reciprocal links, which I thought they weren't suppose to be counting according to google guidelines already. If so it's really going to nail a bunch of white hats it's like their favorite technique.
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    • Profile picture of the author retsek
      Originally Posted by attorneydavid View Post

      What's funny is he talked about excess reciprocal links, which I thought they weren't suppose to be counting according to google guidelines already. If so it's really going to nail a bunch of white hats it's like their favorite technique.
      Reciprocal links do still work. Look at WebMB. They own about a half dozen other health sites, and all interlinked.
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  • Profile picture of the author GrowTraffic
    I agree about niche sites - it might not be the end of exact match domains yet however it's fairly likely that niche sites will be targeted which is a bit of a headache for me as I work on a number of verty niche websites and this doesn't really fit in with Google's big brand ethos.

    Not really sure what is meant by over optimisation but I'm sure this will be more about relevance than anything else - interesting that Cutts mentioned both on and offsite factors when discussing what over optimisation is.
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    • Profile picture of the author BigNorm
      Originally Posted by GrowTraffic View Post

      I agree about niche sites - it might not be the end of exact match domains yet however it's fairly likely that niche sites will be targeted which is a bit of a headache for me as I work on a number of verty niche websites and this doesn't really fit in with Google's big brand ethos.

      Not really sure what is meant by over optimisation but I'm sure this will be more about relevance than anything else - interesting that Cutts mentioned both on and offsite factors when discussing what over optimisation is.
      I agree that EMD's won't be a target as it's the over optimization of the site on what I would guess would be a on a page by page basis. This is where building sites with significant single page content will come into play. It's easier to have your site look as natural as possible with a 1000-1500 word article still using on site SEO than it is with a 500 word article stuffed to the hilt.
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      • Profile picture of the author mosthost
        Originally Posted by BigNorm View Post

        I agree that EMD's won't be a target as it's the over optimization of the site on what I would guess would be a on a page by page basis. This is where building sites with significant single page content will come into play. It's easier to have your site look as natural as possible with a 1000-1500 word article still using on site SEO than it is with a 500 word article stuffed to the hilt.
        A one page 'website' that consists of a 1500 word article is 'natural?' In what way?

        Do you think the average visitors wants to sit back and read all that?
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        • Profile picture of the author BigNorm
          Originally Posted by mosthost View Post

          A one page 'website' that consists of a 1500 word article is 'natural?' In what way?

          Do you think the average visitors wants to sit back and read all that?
          I was talking about the entire site have 1000-1500 content filled pages. And not to be a stickler, but if your content is engaging people are going to read it. How many times have you read through a newspaper article with no less than a 1000 words? Or better still, an article online.
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  • Profile picture of the author Proggy
    Well, I'm looking forward to this update!

    It will show if I'm on the right track with my site or not.

    When I search in Google for my keywords I find 8 sites above me on the 1st page all having content that's almost identically the same also they look very optimized for a certain small group of keywords. Hopefully the upcoming update will remove these 'duplicates' from the search results. Which in turn might result in having my site listed higher in the rankings
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  • Profile picture of the author BigNorm
    Yukon is correct when it comes to the structure of how a site is built and the impact it has on SERP's. Correct internal linking through the entire site including category to post to post outlay is what is going to ultimately help a person win over their competitors. It's easy to come along and find a low to medium search keyword and snatch the the first or second spot of Google due to the low competition. But then you get someone who knows how to structure a website and who goes after the same term and you'll lose out to them because they've built it to sustain and move up in position, not to temporarily snatch an easy victory.
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    • Profile picture of the author jhauer
      Originally Posted by BigNorm View Post

      Yukon is correct when it comes to the structure of how a site is built and the impact it has on SERP's. Correct internal linking through the entire site including category to post to post outlay is what is going to ultimately help a person win over their competitors. It's easy to come along and find a low to medium search keyword and snatch the the first or second spot of Google due to the low competition. But then you get someone who knows how to structure a website and who goes after the same term and you'll lose out to them because they've built it to sustain and move up in position, not to temporarily snatch an easy victory.
      On the subject of "correct internal linking", can anyone suggest a good resource for a noob to understand this concept with self hosted Wordpress sites? Theme options, plugins etc?
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      • Profile picture of the author retsek
        Originally Posted by jhauer View Post

        On the subject of "correct internal linking", can anyone suggest a good resource for a noob to understand this concept with self hosted Wordpress sites? Theme options, plugins etc?
        Start here for the basics: Internal Link - Best Practices for SEO | SEOmoz
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  • Profile picture of the author looking4adsense
    Google manually give sites like wikipedia and amazon weight to rank well. You can try create a new wikipedia article for a certain low competition keyword, and it'll immediately rank for that keyword in google, with 0 link building.
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    • Profile picture of the author yukon
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      Originally Posted by looking4adsense View Post

      Google manually give sites like wikipedia and amazon weight to rank well. You can try create a new wikipedia article for a certain low competition keyword, and it'll immediately rank for that keyword in google, with 0 link building.
      That's the power of an authority sites internal linking.

      Google isn't doing manual SERP ranking, Wikipedia can be outranked, just depends how bad you want the keyword/page ranked.
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  • Profile picture of the author jonnyhardbaked
    It's time for those SEOs who do the right thing in optimizing their webpages to shine. I've seen it before that spammers and those who are good are still even knowing that the one has done the right thing and the one has not.

    So It's a good shake in the world of SEO.
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    • Profile picture of the author orebian
      SEO really hasn't changed that much. It's just that gaming the system IS
      getting harder and harder.
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  • Profile picture of the author juliashing
    The case of over optimization is also punishable by Google.
    The concept of keyword stuffing is explained by Google. The sentences with the keywords much appear natural and should not sound as if keywords have been stuffed into them.
    This could result in a penalty
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  • Profile picture of the author SeoKnightsInc
    I listened to that video few days back and it doesn't surprised me much. Too much SEO'ed sites are already punished by the Google now they may be speeding up the process. Its really a good move as we should focus more on content then tricking crawlers.
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  • Profile picture of the author CShark
    Great insight I'd say. Next Google Update 3.4 in April is gonna slap the hell out of sites with over-optimized, rehashed content
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  • Profile picture of the author PriceMaster
    Heh... Better not to use too many tags!
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  • Profile picture of the author gtk29
    does it also target too many keywords in the meta tag?
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