ALERT: Google's New Attack On "Overly Optimized Sites"

by WebVyz
79 replies
  • SEO
  • |
This represents a business opportunity for those of us focused on generating quality content for SEO. It is, of course, a mortal danger for "grey-hat" SEO strategies.

From the article:
Google engineer Matt Cutts discusses the plans.

In search results, Google wants to "level the playing field" regarding "all those people doing, for lack of a better word, over optimization or overly SEO--versus those making great content and great sites," Schwartz quotes Cutts as saying, in a rough transcription.

"We are trying to make GoogleBot smarter, make our relevance better, and we are also looking for those who abuse it, like too many keywords on a page, or exchange way too many links or go well beyond what you normally expect," the transcript continues.

Schwartz reports that the changes will begin affecting search results "in the upcoming month or next few weeks," though he adds that Google had no official comment on the matter.

The Wall Street Journal reported earlier this week that Google is about to embark on the biggest-ever overhaul of its search system, one that involves "semantic search," as well as changes to search engine optimization, advertising, and page-ranking results.
Those of us who have been working on advanced natural language technologies see generated content as "relevant content" if it is intelligent enough to do what any good writer does:

Target the audience.

What this means is that any value proposition one wishes to convey must not only be clear and succinct, but it must be accompanied by translation technology that targets the terms in which the potential customer understands value.

More intelligent intervention is necessary in generation of semantically coherent synonyms and synonymous phrases. Humans can and, for the near future, must play a part in this. Automated generation however is entirely dependent on the cutting edge of natural language technologies.
#alert #attack #google #overly optimized sites
  • Profile picture of the author danr62
    Natural language technologies? What does that have anything to do with this? I don't think any robot will ever be able to turn out quality, valuable content like a real human writer can.

    Sorry, but your value proposition is not very clear nor succint. The amount of human intervention it takes to take machine generated content and make it semantically coherent is not at all worth the time it takes to do so.

    Just write your own articles or hire a competent writer and throw the spinners in the garbage.
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    • Profile picture of the author WebVyz
      Originally Posted by danr62 View Post

      Natural language technologies? What does that have anything to do with this? I don't think any robot will ever be able to turn out quality, valuable content like a real human writer can.
      I'll tell you this much:

      Human assisted artificial intelligence is an old field going back to mathematical logic theorem provers developed in the 1980s.

      Target audiences for market niches are many and varied. Market research to discover those target audiences is already being partially automated through a field called "data mining". Complementary technologies, such as statistical linguistics, are emerging on the presentation side.

      Originally Posted by danr62 View Post

      Sorry, but your value proposition is not very clear nor succint.
      I presented a statement about "value propositions" in general:

      Presenting them must take into account the "terms" in which the target audience understands "value".
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    • Profile picture of the author chazkey
      Originally Posted by danr62 View Post

      Just write your own articles or hire a competent writer and throw the spinners in the garbage.
      yep... and don't forget to optimize your site. If you build it, they won't come... lol

      Have Fun,
      Chaz Key
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  • Profile picture of the author AnniePot
    Interesting - thanks.

    It's already been noticeable that one of my blogs is doing very well with nothing more than a steady stream of high quality, pertinent information being added regularly. I've just written the content naturally with no keyword emphasis whatsoever. I've done absolutely nothing regarding SEO or backlinking.

    Clearly, relevance and regularity are now playing a big part in how Google now sees you.
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  • Profile picture of the author entrepreneurjay
    Good post just write high quality unique content for people first and Google second and you should be just fine.

    It will be interesting to see what's in store.
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
    "Attack"?

    LOL

    Perhaps "Making an Attempt to Focus More on Content" would be more accurate. If they can do it right, then it's a positive change.

    All the best,
    Michael
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    • Profile picture of the author WebVyz
      Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post

      "Attack"?

      LOL

      Perhaps "Making an Attempt to Focus More on Content" would be more accurate. If they can do it right, then it's a positive change.
      I certainly understand the perspective that says "Overly optimized SEO" is an "attack" on Google's page ranking algorithm hence Google is merely "defending" against such "attacks".

      I wanted to get the attention of the folks who know they need to raise the quality of their content.

      You would agree there are a lot of them reading these fora.
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      • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
        Originally Posted by WebVyz View Post

        I certainly understand the perspective that says "Overly optimized SEO" is an "attack" on Google's page ranking algorithm hence Google is merely "defending" against such "attacks".

        I wanted to get the attention of the folks who know they need to raise the quality of their content.

        You would agree there are a lot of them reading these fora.
        I was looking at is Google making the attack, but it looks like we are in agreement on this isssue.

        I was just going to give your response a simple thanks, but the fact that you used the proper plural of 'forum' warranted a written response.



        All the best,
        Michael
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      • Profile picture of the author Mister Rex
        Originally Posted by WebVyz View Post

        I certainly understand the perspective that says "Overly optimized SEO" is an "attack" on Google's page ranking algorithm hence Google is merely "defending" against such "attacks".

        I wanted to get the attention of the folks who know they need to raise the quality of their content.

        You would agree there are a lot of them reading these fora.
        Your problem lies in the fact that with every update, a new loophole to exploit is created. Thus, there is a neverending battle between good and evil and more times than not, evil sites will find a way to outrank good sites.

        SEO is a game.
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        • Profile picture of the author WebVyz
          Originally Posted by Mister Rex View Post

          Your problem lies in the fact that with every update, a new loophole to exploit is created. Thus, there is a neverending battle between good and evil and more times than not, evil sites will find a way to outrank good sites.

          SEO is a game.
          You will notice that Google is becoming more and more intelligent about closing loopholes. Yes that means others will become more intelligent about finding loopholes but ultimately what that means is that both sides are converging on natural language artificial intelligence.

          My entire point is that once we recognize the "game" is natural language artificial intelligence, we can sit back and reflect on what it is we want our various agents to do. Google's ultimate AI wants to let through what our ultimate AI wants to generate:

          Customer-centric presentation of value propositions.
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          • Profile picture of the author WebVyz
            Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill View Post

            Google is working on an algorithm to recognize natural language. The intelligent response would be to use natural language.
            Yes, the ultimate AI would not even present its primary sources, but would automatically construct content that the customer values. In other words it would cease being a search engine.

            That is a bit further off than being an intelligent search engine.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mister Rex
    This update is an update against brute force link building an exact match anchor text both rom backlinks and within internal linking structure.

    Have any of you sen those warnings in Webmaster Tools, yet? The ones that say you have unnatural links in your portfolio? That message is signed with, "We are pushing out a big ole algo update NEXT MONTH, and are warning you of your offenses." If you have not seen the message, it is because google does not see unnatural links in your portfolio.
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    • Profile picture of the author LilBlackDress
      Originally Posted by Mister Rex View Post

      This update is an update against brute force link building an exact match anchor text both rom backlinks and within internal linking structure.

      Have any of you sen those warnings in Webmaster Tools, yet? The ones that say you have unnatural links in your portfolio? That message is signed with, "We are pushing out a big ole algo update NEXT MONTH, and are warning you of your offenses." If you have not seen the message, it is because google does not see unnatural links in your portfolio.
      So what do they want you to do - go remove all your links?
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      • Profile picture of the author Mister Rex
        Originally Posted by LilBlackDress View Post

        So what do they want you to do - go remove all your links?
        No. Google is removing your links for you.
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  • Profile picture of the author mosthost
    Google is a bully.
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    • Profile picture of the author WebVyz
      Originally Posted by mosthost View Post

      Google is a bully.
      That may be true but it isn't because they're protecting their customers from noise.

      Do you have any evidence of favoritism in their page rank algorithm other than favoring signal and disfavoring noise from the customer's perspective -- however ineffective that algorithm might be?
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  • Profile picture of the author buildablogsite
    Hi

    Personally I think writing your own content for your own backlinks, think spinners can be used for backlinks to your backlinks to give them more weight but for direct links to your site definitely my own content.

    I always write the articles or web 2.0s for humans go back and optimize then go back and look for linking opportunities.

    This kind of work can be really time consuming but is worth it in the end.

    Talk Soon
    Joe
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  • Profile picture of the author WebVyz
    Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill View Post

    "Tautology ...
    Your critique would be valid were it not for the qualifier "cutting edge".

    In other words, the information conveyed (or at least intended to be conveyed) is that what people think of as automated content generation technology cannot be effective, let alone competitive, unless it is "cutting edge" natural language technology. Placed in context, it is clear that we are, and will be, dealing with substantial human intervention for at least the near future.
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    • Profile picture of the author deejones
      I can't really fault Google for trying. They are doing what IMers are encouraged to do, which is make their services more appealing to buyers. But I do understand why those who depend on Google find all of the constant changing annoying.

      As for these new changes, I'll wait and see how it actually works out. Because what they mean to happen and what actually ends up happening are sometimes two different things.
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  • Profile picture of the author Tim3
    Did Mr Cutts say what they would do about great content that was over-optimized?

    Let's see if there is any effect before crying 'Wolf'

    being as they tell us that good content "will be rewarded" but isn't.
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  • Profile picture of the author Chris Worner
    Am I the only person here who is jumping up and down with glee at this news?

    If you visit all the backlink forums, they are all soiling themselves in fear at this announcement, not to mention some major blog/link farms were identified and slapped silly as a result of this new update.

    -Chris
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    • Profile picture of the author larry65
      So, I have a question regarding this and the SEO optimization. If a person consistently puts new content on their page, marketing it towards whatever the article but with first focus being on good content, then isn't Google only going to move that up in ranks with interactions or comments on the articles? If I am putting up content everyday or try to everyday, does that mean you don't have to do backlinking? or what does that mean? Just curious and I am working on building a business online writing articles and doing affiliate marketing. Thanks for any clarifications
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      • Profile picture of the author WebVyz
        Originally Posted by larry65 View Post

        ...If I am putting up content everyday or try to everyday, does that mean you don't have to do backlinking?...
        Keep in mind the purpose of backlinking from Google's perspective:

        How relevant is your web page to known-value web pages?

        Now, given that's their purpose, the next question is: How can you "generate" relevant backlinking from known-value web pages?

        Here's another way of thinking about the problem:

        When you are out there using Google to search for potential customers, what keywords do you use and what do you do with the web pages returned by Google? How do you anticipate that a message you post at one of those pages (assuming they allow comments) will be valued by its readers and how do you know it will even have readers? If the page doesn't allow comments, how do you know the editorial authority will value the equivalent of a news release you send to them and how do you know what their readership is?

        Answering these questions requires diligence and intelligence.
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        • Profile picture of the author azmanar
          Originally Posted by WebVyz View Post

          Answering these questions requires diligence and intelligence.
          aka will involve : Lots Of Resources, High Cost, Headaches and carpal tunnel cramps.
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    • Profile picture of the author NicoleBeckett
      Originally Posted by Chris Worner View Post

      Am I the only person here who is jumping up and down with glee at this news?
      No, Chris, you're not :p

      Personally, I'm glad to see that Google is making changes like these, and it really shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone. After all, Google has always talked about things like user experience, writing for readers first and search engines second, etc. Now, they've apparently got the tools in place to see who's really doing right by their visitors and who's simply trying to cover up crappy content with optimization tools, techniques, and other SEO do-hickeys.

      To those of you that are freaking out, it's time to make your traffic more well-rounded. If you're relying on Google for everything, you're in a dangerous position.
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    • Profile picture of the author cashcow
      Originally Posted by Chris Worner View Post

      Am I the only person here who is jumping up and down with glee at this news?
      Nope, I am too.

      I used to build great content sites with tons of unique and expertly written articles. But they didn't really get a lot of traffic. It was time consuming and I didn't really make much money from them. Google even de-indexed one of them (one of those innocent blogs that got slammed in one of the big updates that they used to have back in the day). But left tons of crappy traffic equalizer sites up in their index.

      I was outranked by people who knew how to look for better keywords and do back linking. So, I joined them. I soon found that making crapping content was more profitable. It wasn't really as satisfying as having a nice blog with good content, but you have to pay the bills somehow.

      I'm embarrassed to say that I did my share of littering the internet with crappy articles. Sorry.

      Over the past year, though these methods have not been working much at all. I could sit around moaning about my crappy autoblogs that are dying but I'm actually pretty happy about it because now it means that I can go about writing good content and get rewarded for it with traffic.

      I don't have to be a slave to keywords and mutilate my articles so that I can make sure I mention my keyword phrases X amount of times. (Not saying keyword research is bad btw, just that sometimes it stifles the creativity when writing)

      I'm actually already seeing this happen on one of my blogs that really doesn't have any SEO done to it to speak of.

      I always knew Google just wanted good content, but to tell you the truth, I never thought they would actually be able to make their search recognize and reward it. Now it seems they just might be doing that. I only wish I had been smart enough to keep building quality blogs all this time instead of going over to "the dark side".
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  • Profile picture of the author Mike Linley
    Speaking of natural language, what is the OP's natural language because it is not English. I don't even think Google can understand all those big words that aren't even in dictionary.com or used anywhere else on the web. Is there some strategy he is using with these words to garner more attention from google?
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  • Profile picture of the author Leo Wadsworth
    Note that this is not just one update, but has been prominently announced as an ongoing effort. In another article, Matt Cutts talked about how often Google updates its algorithms. The average? About ONCE A DAY. Most of the updates are very small, like adding better parsing for a particular language or more synonyms, but then we have big rollouts, like Panda was.

    It is possible that spinners and software will keep going back and forth getting better and better (after all, if you use software to CHECK the articles, then software can GENERATE articles.... IF you know the rules). However, it is just plain better to write great content pointed at humans, while being aware of Google.

    Right now I recommend 1-2% keyword density, using the keyword in first and last sentence of content, and in the page title, and once in h1, h2, and h3 tags. I also recommend checking and using related words, but not going crazy. lsikeywords.com is a great free site for seeing what Google might be using as related words.

    I don't believe modest optimization like this will run afoul of Google. Instead, I expect it to be the right balance of being Google Friendly -- giving their software the reasonable hints it is looking for.

    However -- the prime mantra remains - write quality content for humans and you should be fine.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mister Rex
      Originally Posted by Leo Wadsworth View Post


      Right now I recommend 1-2% keyword density, using the keyword in first and last sentence of content, and in the page title, and once in h1, h2, and h3 tags. I also recommend checking and using related words, but not going crazy. lsikeywords.com is a great free site for seeing what Google might be using as related words.
      Horrible advice.

      1. Forget keyword density! Its all about semantic variations and relationships between phrases on the page.

      2. DO NOT put your keyword in the title, h1, h2 and h3 tags! Instead, use a semantic variation of the keyword in each of these elements. The variation can be slight, but if you have the same keyword optimized in all heading and title you are going to get into trouble.

      Headings are used to help aid the reader in understanding the flow of the content, plus recognizing a new section is being started. If every element was the same keyword, google KNOWS that true quality content does not repeat the same element through each degree of heading.

      3. Go crazy with phrase variations!
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      • Profile picture of the author cagliostro
        Originally Posted by Mister Rex View Post


        2. DO NOT put your keyword in the title,
        Are you crazy or something ?
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        • Profile picture of the author yukon
          Banned
          Originally Posted by Mister Rex View Post

          Horrible advice.

          1. Forget keyword density! Its all about semantic variations and relationships between phrases on the page.

          2. DO NOT put your keyword in the title, h1, h2 and h3 tags! Instead, use a semantic variation of the keyword in each of these elements. The variation can be slight, but if you have the same keyword optimized in all heading and title you are going to get into trouble.

          Headings are used to help aid the reader in understanding the flow of the content, plus recognizing a new section is being started. If every element was the same keyword, google KNOWS that true quality content does not repeat the same element through each degree of heading.

          3. Go crazy with phrase variations!


          I agree with everything except the page title. Adding the keyword once in the page title isn't overkill.

          The rest of the comment is exactly how it's done.

          I'm seeing a lot of peoples sites/pages that don't use proper page formatting.
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  • Profile picture of the author wadboram
    Could anyone tell me exactly what do does it mean a high quality content? is it correct grammar sentences or punctuation or relevant content.

    Also, the big G is doing a nasty plan to dominate all the IMers income and I can feel a monopoly strategic plan soon. They are the most hypocritical company I have ever seen. I still remember " Ads should not be above fold" Adsense issue.
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    • Profile picture of the author chazkey
      Originally Posted by wadboram View Post

      Could anyone tell me exactly what do does it mean a high quality content? is it correct grammar sentences or punctuation or relevant content.

      Also, the big G is doing a nasty plan to dominate all the IMers income and I can feel a monopoly strategic plan soon. They are the most hypocritical company I have ever seen. I still remember " Ads should not be above fold" Adsense issue.

      I just wrote a post on this. Check out nineeye.com/blog/

      It might give you a little insite as to why and what to expect.
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  • Profile picture of the author chazkey
    Funny, I think we have to many dome and gloom IMer's here. Stay focused on creating quality content and you're not going to have any problems.

    This update is a follow up to Google getting rid of sites that have too many ads on them. Look at all the sites Google just dumped in the last couple of months for Google Adsense. They don't care about the money. The care about the user experience. Sites that have too many ads and no content are the only ones that are really going to be effected by this.

    I have been having clients call me, my coaching students calling me, for what? Something else to worry about?

    The Sky Is Falling! LOL

    Chaz Key

    I wrote a post about it, go read it and leave me a comment. Just think you will get a nofollow backlink, lol.

    http://nineeye.com/blog/google/why-is-google-going-to-penalize-overly-optimized-sites-seoed-sites/
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  • Profile picture of the author wadboram
    @chazkey, so if we keep our old withing range SEO rules, sites will not be penalized?
    What about the backlinking methods ? forum profiles, blog commenting, etc.......... ?
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  • Profile picture of the author BIG Mike
    Banned
    I'm surprised more of you didn't see this coming

    Google has been developing semantic search since 2003 and now they're coupling it to the social aspects of search.

    The couple of years are going to be very cool where SEO is concerned.
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    • Profile picture of the author LeahRae
      Originally Posted by BIG Mike View Post

      I'm surprised more of you didn't see this coming

      Google has been developing semantic search since 2003 and now they're coupling it to the social aspects of search.

      The couple of years are going to be very cool where SEO is concerned.
      I agree. Google most definitely has been refining how it understands speech patterns. Everyone with a Google voice number has been giving Google valuable information on the way people form sentences and communicate. Granted the transcribing portion is not so hot when compared to Vlingo or Dragon Naturally speaking which leads me to believe that Google voice is not geared towards some kind of one stop voice mail system. It is probably more geared towards information gathering.

      I was just at the Google office here for a social networking presentation. The Google folks were gleefully explaining how Google is pulling data in from all over the internet and aggregating it for Google Plus accounts.

      There have been text readers for visually challenged people for years, apply the rules for forming a sentence in a language and Google could tell the difference between a formally spoken conversation vs a fake one. I would imagine the trick is in understanding slang and regional speech patterns.

      Google is also the assignee on a really large number of patent's that are directly related to speech patterns.

      L
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  • Profile picture of the author azmanar
    Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill View Post

    "Tautology (from Greek tauto, "the same" and logos, "word/idea") is an unnecessary repetition of meaning, using dissimilar words that effectively say the same thing (often originally from different languages). It is considered a fault of style and was defined by Fowler as "saying the same thing twice", if it is not apparently necessary or essential for the entire meaning of a phrase to be repeated. If a part of the meaning is repeated in such a way that it appears as unintentional, or clumsy, then it may be described as tautology."

    Tautology (rhetoric) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Back to the drawing board.
    whoaa ...

    An Overly Optimized Article = a Tautologic Article = crappy ... lol.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
    What happens if a very high quality page is "overly" optimized?
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    • Profile picture of the author SaSeoPete
      Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

      What happens if a very high quality page is "overly" optimized?
      My thoughts exactly.

      What's stopping your competitor of ordering 20k spammy blog comments on Fiverr to your site?

      Will YOU then get penalized?

      While I am all for high quality content - this might open a whole new can of worms for black hatters...
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    • Profile picture of the author MagicWhisper
      Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

      What happens if a very high quality page is "overly" optimized?
      EXACTLY!! People hear are ASSUMING that only crappy sites optimize, or "over optimize." I am sure that there are sites with great content that over optimize because there is no point in writing great content if no one can find it in the first place.
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  • Profile picture of the author Brendan Carl
    I like this idea. For those of us that actually spend time to write our own quality articles, we do not have to spend hours focusing on keywords, SEO, and backlinking. We can spend all of our time on writing great, original content. Google will reward us for this.

    I'm glad that my search results will yield more quality information from great writers, rather than bad quality content written (or spun) by a "writer" that only spent time on SEO and backlinking.
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  • Profile picture of the author schabotte
    If you are looking for good examples of writing, find yourself on old print encyclopedia set aimed at high school students. Almost without exception, the articles are well written with a robust vocabulary. If they include photos, there are captions to explain the photos. And when relevant, they point you to other articles in the encyclopedia to expand and broaden your knowledge on a subject area.

    Sounds an awful lot like what google wants. But as pointed out, how do you teach a machine to really parse meaning to make the value judgements that a person can make about quality?
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  • Profile picture of the author hellohellosharp
    There is this great plugin called SEO-Presser that everyone thought was really amazing...

    But this is the end of that stuff. You can't just stuff your content with the same keyword, and then bold it, underline it, etc and expect to rank for it.

    Google doesn't just look for your keyword, it looks for variations of it.
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  • Profile picture of the author AlexMcLeod
    I don't see what all this fuss is about. Readers want to read stuff that either:
    A. Answers their question
    or
    B. Is relevant to their search topic
    I think Google is doing a good job. They're getting junk sites out of the results pages, and that makes it easier to find what you're actually looking for.
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  • Profile picture of the author jasono
    Lots of SEO businesses just closed because of sites getting de-indexed. Poor people. That's what they get for being abusive.
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  • Profile picture of the author samjaynz
    This really isn't a big surprise here - Google are just putting into practice the important adage of "content is king". What they are saying is that you should spend more of your time creating good content that provides value to your readers (and those searching Google's index) RATHER than trying to game lower-quality content into an equivalent place.

    It's a fair deal IMHO.

    I actually just wrote a blog post about this new update at the Affilorama blog - check it out: Will Google Penalize Over-Optimized Websites? | Affilorama
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  • Profile picture of the author cashcow
    A lot of good sites get penalized during Googles changes, why would this change be any different?

    I'm sure some high quality sites will probably get slapped until Google is able to fine tune the algo to only slap crappy sites that are over optimized.

    I've already seen blog posts and other threads from people who got the "unnatural link building" message even though (according to them) they only had a few links from blog networks and that only made up a small portion of their overall link strategy so it seems Google is being rather aggressive with this.

    I was always under the impression that you couldn't be penalized due to spammy back links because otherwise your competitors would be able to get you penalized but it looks like I was wrong.
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  • Profile picture of the author zaco
    I got a message from Google today , I started to panic since I used a fiver gig for Article Samurai on some of my sites.. I used them once and I guess they built 130 links to my sites on 2 months period, the message was for joining Google adwords lol what a great relief..haha.. but I am worried that I will get deindexed as soon as they find that network..

    I don't use it anymore and I am worried that if I ask the gig owner to remove my articles then Google will notice that and I bet they are watching the after math of their change on few blog networks, people now will panic and start removing the links and Google will see it and penalize them as its a proof that the owner did it.. why would a competitor remove the links
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  • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
    Originally Posted by WebVyz View Post

    In search results, Google wants the same thing they have always wanted.
    Fixed that for you.

    SEO has always been regarded as a bug by search engine developers. The fact that it works at all means the search engine is not doing a good enough job. And they are hiring the smartest people they can find to fix this.

    Now, maybe you think it's smart to base your business on the foundation that you are better at this than a small army of the smartest people that the richest companies on the planet can find.

    And maybe monkeys will fly out of your butt, too.
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  • Profile picture of the author Randall Magwood
    I dont get Google now... nor will i ever get them later.
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  • Profile picture of the author Usmile
    Thank you for sharing this. I like that Google idea, because most people are starting to abuse the true spirit of web content. If you want to earn Googlebot's attention then your website must have the appropriate content along with good optimization.
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  • Profile picture of the author sqnwk
    How long before Google is irrelevant? With so much traffic and time spent on sites like facebook and twitter at some point it will translate into less search and traffic on google sites.
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  • Profile picture of the author MonopolyMan
    That last part of too much exchanging links or going beyond what they'd expect.

    I really. Reaaaally hope they're just talking about tracking outbound links to cut down on sidebar links or networks like 3WL etc...

    If they're actually going to start smacking sites for getting links then it doesn't matter how great your content is - because someones going to pay $20 on Fiverr to get you a penalty and rank their crap above you.

    Ranking on the quality of the site is a good step forward and pretty much what they've always tried to do. Ranking based on who seems to be doing the least offsite SEO is going to turn it into a mud flinging contest.

    Calling it now. If this happens networks like BMR and ALN can open back up and people will pay their monthly fee to link to their competitors sites.
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    • Profile picture of the author zaco
      Originally Posted by MonopolyMan View Post

      That last part of too much exchanging links or going beyond what they'd expect.

      I really. Reaaaally hope they're just talking about tracking outbound links to cut down on sidebar links or networks like 3WL etc...

      If they're actually going to start smacking sites for getting links then it doesn't matter how great your content is - because someones going to pay $20 on Fiverr to get you a penalty and rank their crap above you.

      Ranking on the quality of the site is a good step forward and pretty much what they've always tried to do. Ranking based on who seems to be doing the least offsite SEO is going to turn it into a mud flinging contest.

      Calling it now. If this happens networks like BMR and ALN can open back up and people will pay their monthly fee to link to their competitors sites.
      You cannot use BMR and ALN or whatever network that has been deindexed to build backlinks against your competitor.. they are not indexed anymore.. I hope Google clarifies the too much unnatural link building messages.. anybody can hurt anyone if they use such a system..
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      • Profile picture of the author MonopolyMan
        Originally Posted by zaco View Post

        You cannot use BMR and ALN or whatever network that has been deindexed to build backlinks against your competitor.. they are not indexed anymore.. I hope Google clarifies the too much unnatural link building messages.. anybody can hurt anyone if they use such a system..
        I used them as an example. There's plenty of other networks which will take my horribly spun content with massive footprints and link to my competitors.

        I don't think they'll clarify anything. I hope it doesn't come to this being a reality but I'm already seeing case studies on people blasting their competitors with obvious networks to see if they can get them a penalty.

        To be clear I understand why Google did what they did and it makes perfect sense. I'd love quality sites to win over backlinks but that's just not how it works at the moment.

        And it's going to take it even further from there if the quality sites that do exist can just be nuked by the ones trying to compete with them.
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    • Profile picture of the author Madrone
      Originally Posted by MonopolyMan View Post

      That last part of too much exchanging links or going beyond what they'd expect.

      I really. Reaaaally hope they're just talking about tracking outbound links to cut down on sidebar links or networks like 3WL etc...

      If they're actually going to start smacking sites for getting links then it doesn't matter how great your content is - because someones going to pay $20 on Fiverr to get you a penalty and rank their crap above you.

      Ranking on the quality of the site is a good step forward and pretty much what they've always tried to do. Ranking based on who seems to be doing the least offsite SEO is going to turn it into a mud flinging contest.

      Calling it now. If this happens networks like BMR and ALN can open back up and people will pay their monthly fee to link to their competitors sites.
      If that happens to much how long will it be before somebody does it to us. Just when I was starting to like IMing.
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  • Profile picture of the author mrconcdid
    The ones that say you have unnatural links in your portfolio? That message is signed with, "We are pushing out a big ole algo update NEXT MONTH, and are warning you of your offenses."
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  • Profile picture of the author Clandog
    Banned
    I for one think it is great that Google is doing this, to flush out those SEO people who take shortcuts and try to get people on the first page without deserving to be there.
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    • Profile picture of the author Steve Faber
      Originally Posted by Clandog View Post

      I for one think it is great that Google is doing this, to flush out those SEO people who take shortcuts and try to get people on the first page without deserving to be there.
      IF that's what they're really doing it will be great, and if they implement it properly it will be great.

      Question: If they don't want people optimizing their sites, why do they offer webmaster tools and analytics?

      The fact that they are penalizing you for inbouind links is preposterous. Now every website owner with a budget can just blast the crap out of their competitors until google penalizes them for "unatural" link activity. It could be someone trying to gain rankings, or it could be someone trying to get them taken away.

      What about writing a great piece of content or breaking something newsworthy. It will get a ton of links very rapidly. If the site is not a well known site with reputation, will Google view this as unatural link activity?

      Hmmmmm
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  • Profile picture of the author Steve Faber
    Google is helping naturally well-written content rank well.... except that in many cases they're really not. What it apears they may be doing is helping their advertising partners with huge corporate budgets rank well.

    As an example I give you what I found today when I was looking to see if it would be worth changing the starter on my Jeep Grand Cherokee myself, or if I should take it in to my local auto care provider.

    I searched on the term "How to Change a Starter on a 2002 Jeep Grand Cherokee"

    What I got back was a page of SERs from sites like eHOW and autorepairwiki with the following oh so enlightening article:

    "It may be best to change the starter in your Jeep Grand Cherokee if it is not functioning properly. Worn starters can begin to drag or lock up and not function at all. If your starter is exhibiting symptoms of wear, remove it from the truck and have it tested at an auto parts store. If you need a new one, you can purchase new and rebuilt starters through most auto parts stores and the Jeep dealership's parts department."

    It may be best to change my starter if it is not functioning properly....REALLY???? I should remove it and have it tested? No ****, Sherlock!!

    Unfortunately, that answer came not at all close to answdering the quesiton I actually asked, although there were several other verbatim copies of this garbage generality in other Google results on other simialar sites Google saw fit to rank in the top 10.

    Where were actual sites and Jeep forums owned by non corporate webmasters, where you really find the kind of articles that revealed what changing a Jeep starter entailed? Buried down on page 5 and 6. Way to go G.
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    • Profile picture of the author MonopolyMan
      Originally Posted by Steve Faber View Post

      Where were actual sites and Jeep forums owned by non corporate webmasters, where you really find the kind of articles that revealed what changing a Jeep starter entailed? Buried down on page 5 and 6. Way to go G.
      Give me a few weeks and some fiverr gigs - I'll have them down to page 10 just to be sure they're not competing with my $2 content.

      Thing is the majority of people will just assume this is the best results out there. Marketers will know fine well how many SERPS are littered with this kind of crap while the better sites are buried but everyone else can rest assured knowing that it's probably a good idea to replace something which needs replaced.

      Google - it may be best to change the Algorithm to actually reward quality sites properly if it is not functioning properly.
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      • Profile picture of the author azmanar
        Hi,

        When I did some search on G, the results were not relevant MOST OF THE TIME .... even until page 10. And those results were not relevant before and after the latest updates.

        Finally, I got myself some kool tools including 1 that scours multiple SEs. And then it will give me the most relevant results based on my Search Relevancy. Not many from G, though.
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        • Profile picture of the author thailanddave
          What everyone seems to forget is Google is a computer program. It can't tell if its looking at a good website or a bad website. It can only look for clues. If you arrange your website in a logical fashion, you'll do well.

          I make adsense sites. I use fiverr for my backlinking strategy. I get worried every time I hear about these google updates and end up making more money when they implement the change.

          Any company of any size has somebody doing SEO for them. We all use the same basic methods. So what clues will google look for that your site is over SEO'd?

          How bout if the only links you have are edu links and they are all from russia? Or you have all PR6-PR8 links but no PR0-1 links? There are bunches of clues if you think about it.

          The language reference is probably a reference to Dublin Cores. Check it out.
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  • Profile picture of the author wadboram
    I do remember in 2003 or this time around where Google's market share was around 35% versus Yahoo and MSN. I hope one day this will return back cause people now rely mainly on G. and their smart engineers are just turning the tables on internet earners.
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  • Profile picture of the author Theeban
    Well, from my point of view Google always gives good value to relevant (example: contextual) links and always treat content as king and gives penalty to over optimisation like using many keywords on a page for SEO purposes, and getting more backlinks (In other words, say using same anchor text to get many links... rather than using different anchor text), It seems they are going to be more smart based on above mentioned already stabled three important things on their algorithm,
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  • Profile picture of the author RevSEO
    Most of us have been preaching this for quite some time, its the only
    logical path that Google's gonna take, build websites for communities,
    for readers, and not for Google itself.

    Its the only logical path that Google can take, and the one they need to take.
    For far too long, lazy SEO has worked, and worked far too well. Granted SEO
    will still exist and work fine, but the days of spin and spam are over.

    Moving forward, build websites for USERS, for the people that are visiting your
    site and care about what you have to offer. Building for a Google bot is a short
    term strategy, and an in effective one at that.
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  • Profile picture of the author MarcusHichens
    I understand the thought process that Google has but just I don't see websites that are overly optimized being punished.
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    • Profile picture of the author ProPowerSEO
      Originally Posted by MarcusHichens View Post

      I understand the thought process that Google has but just I don't see websites that are overly optimized being punished.
      I think it depends what way you interpret it.

      For example, if you have a website, lets use www. health .com as an eg:

      If this site had 1000 links that where all using "health" as the anchor link text, and all 1000 were pointing to the home page only and none of the other indexed pages, would you think this was ethical? This could be looked at as "over optimization" therefore due a penalty.
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  • Profile picture of the author joetheseo
    If Google's goal was to spread controlled panic, fear, and propaganda throughout the SEO community, then they have definitely succeeded.

    2 of my clients dropped in ranks... everything else is normal here. Thankfully I never signed up for ALN or BMR... but ironically, the 2 clients that dropped had several ALN fiverr gigs purchased.

    The day heard about this update, I stepped up my game, building more relevant links etc. May have just saved my ass...
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  • Profile picture of the author GeeWhiz1
    Things are definitely being shaked up at the moment. I never fully optimize a website for "one particular" keyword. I like to have related keywords in other aspects of on-page seo. Always felt it looks more natural.
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  • Profile picture of the author Viramara
    I don't mean to brag here. I'm not an expert in SEO or something like that.....Just share...

    I have a website (local, actually) that survives Panda. He's hosted in WP, local hosting, and is 3 years in age. For the first year, it's in wordpress.com until I moved him to paid domain and hosting. The only "SEO" I did for him are pinging, adding relevant tag, and blogwalking. I rarely "stuff" keywords in him, leave alone counting keyword density. I updated him twice a month, sometimes once. This site generated 500 - 600+ UV/day, all organic. And yes, the traffic converted as well to sales, too. What I did over and over in 3 years are, giving my visitors what they want : in-depth, well-researched content, easy to navigate website. I knew a lot of sites nearby with my keywords are blatant salesy -- at least that's what my subscribers and visitors told me -- I do exactly the opposite : I ask myself ... "what do my visitors want when they visit my website?".

    I've had my other English site failed and getting sandboxed no matter how I've tried to highly optimize it, while others thrive from guest blogging, twitter, and forum traffic, no SEO. After I've noticed the pattern what makes one survive and other flop, then it hit me : When I focused too much on search engine , making it uber-priority, rather than the visitors experience when they visit my site, they'll flop hard and fast.

    You can make spun or auto-generated contents, play the keywords stuff in "suitable sentences" until it reached certain density, put script that matched your content with affiliate products, and have robotic troops sending bots for linking to your site. Then wham, you have a "ready-made, instant, optimized money-making website". But in the end, your consumers and visitors are humans. Humans can perceive value, robots can't. That's what the "new" Google considers.

    Think of your website like a boutique. You can make your boutique right in the main boulevard, paying insane $$ to afford the rent, but got very little or mostly non-buying visits. People just see your boutique outside, and "bleh, no". But if you beautify the showcase, provide your boutique visitors the best experience they could, and most importantly....the superstar-like clothes in affordable price (quality, quality content), how would that make a difference?

    So, does content still rules? My answer is, yes...more than ever, if you want to thrive in a long-term.

    ..........Again, just a little rant from a layman's eye .
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    • Profile picture of the author JDIZM
      Originally Posted by Viramara View Post

      I don't mean to brag here. I'm not an expert in SEO or something like that.....Just share...

      I have a website (local, actually) that survives Panda. He's hosted in WP, local hosting, and is 3 years in age. For the first year, it's in wordpress.com until I moved him to paid domain and hosting. The only "SEO" I did for him are pinging, adding relevant tag, and blogwalking. I rarely "stuff" keywords in him, leave alone counting keyword density. I updated him twice a month, sometimes once. This site generated 500 - 600+ UV/day, all organic. And yes, the traffic converted as well to sales, too. What I did over and over in 3 years are, giving my visitors what they want : in-depth, well-researched content, easy to navigate website. I knew a lot of sites nearby with my keywords are blatant salesy -- at least that's what my subscribers and visitors told me -- I do exactly the opposite : I ask myself ... "what do my visitors want when they visit my website?".

      I've had my other English site failed and getting sandboxed no matter how I've tried to highly optimize it, while others thrive from guest blogging, twitter, and forum traffic, no SEO. After I've noticed the pattern what makes one survive and other flop, then it hit me : When I focused too much on search engine , making it uber-priority, rather than the visitors experience when they visit my site, they'll flop hard and fast.

      You can make spun or auto-generated contents, play the keywords stuff in "suitable sentences" until it reached certain density, put script that matched your content with affiliate products, and have robotic troops sending bots for linking to your site. Then wham, you have a "ready-made, instant, optimized money-making website". But in the end, your consumers and visitors are humans. Humans can perceive value, robots can't. That's what the "new" Google considers.

      Think of your website like a boutique. You can make your boutique right in the main boulevard, paying insane $$ to afford the rent, but got very little or mostly non-buying visits. People just see your boutique outside, and "bleh, no". But if you beautify the showcase, provide your boutique visitors the best experience they could, and most importantly....the superstar-like clothes in affordable price (quality, quality content), how would that make a difference?

      So, does content still rules? My answer is, yes...more than ever, if you want to thrive in a long-term.

      ..........Again, just a little rant from a layman's eye .
      Nice post, I love the way your refer to your website as "He" =]
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      • Profile picture of the author Viramara
        What I don't understand is this : what objective parameters would Google consider as "quality"? Back in the old days, it's keyword density, keyword relevance, and backlinks amount. "Good quality" can be subjective, and very human-based. Is it based on how long (time) the visitors linger in a website? Amount of comments and RSS subscribes?

        Of course I'll thank Google if they can implement their plan well because I won't have to whore myself for keywords etc, and I can focus on indulging my visitors with content.


        Originally Posted by JDIZM View Post

        Nice post, I love the way your refer to your website as "He" =]
        LOL yes, he's like my little brother
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        • Profile picture of the author Mister Rex
          Originally Posted by yukon View Post

          I agree with everything except the page title. Adding the keyword once in the page title isn't overkill.

          The rest of the comment is exactly how it's done.

          I'm seeing a lot of peoples sites/pages that don't use proper page formatting.
          You are right! I didnt explain myself well on that one. I meant dont do it on every element of the site. But yes, it should be in the title!

          Originally Posted by Viramara View Post

          What I don't understand is this : what objective parameters would Google consider as "quality"? Back in the old days, it's keyword density, keyword relevance, and backlinks amount. "Good quality" can be subjective, and very human-based. Is it based on how long (time) the visitors linger in a website? Amount of comments and RSS subscribes?

          Of course I'll thank Google if they can implement their plan well because I won't have to whore myself for keywords etc, and I can focus on indulging my visitors with content.
          Quality now is best judged in site structure, hierarchy and semantic relationship between words within the content. Putting the focus back on the this new update to take place (is taking place) its about the quality of backlinks. That can be judged by over optimized anchor text, unnatural linking and other factors.
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  • Profile picture of the author StewieG
    Ya betta watch out!!!

    Cause G Gonna Kick Ya In Ya Ding Ding....
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  • Profile picture of the author TourPlanet
    I really thanks to google for doing this.. you know why, i've visited lots of sites that are on top of the google search but there is very bad quality content there and there are some sites that have low rank but there content is very good quality... so google should consider the content quality for the search rank...
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