Guest Blogging Is Black Hat

ExpressFans

13 years ago

Personally i dont agree

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Mike Anthony 13 years ago

It is not black or even grey hat at all if there is no payment involved. If that were the case guest columnists in major news site would be black hat as well which is ridiculous.
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- gearmonkey 13 years ago
  
  It's not black hat. I recommend guess blogging as one of the best backlinking strategies right now.
  
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mosthost 13 years ago

Originally Posted by ExpressFans

Personally i dont agree

Tell me why.

The Black Hat does guest posts because he wants exact anchor text in-content one way permanent links. He usually pays for the privilege.

The White Hat donates content he writes specifically for the same reason!

Both want anchor text to influence Google. How many people can really live off the traffic from guest posts?
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Green Moon

13 years ago

Gray hat, maybe? If you are blogging on a site where your contribution benefits the real readers of the site, and both the post your topic and an accompanying link would be natural if written by the blogger or another writer on your topic, I don't see it as black hat.

Guest articles are natural in off-line publications and serve a combined purpose of providing value for the publisher and promotional value to the contributing author. If it natural IRL, I don't consider it black hat.

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mosthost

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Green Moon

Gray hat, maybe? If you are blogging on a site where your contribution benefits the real readers of the site, and both the post your topic and an accompanying link would be natural if written by the blogger or another writer on your topic, I don't see it as black hat.

Guest articles are natural in off-line publications and serve a combined purpose of providing value for the publisher and promotional value to the contributing author. If it natural IRL, I don't consider it black hat.

True. To be on the safe side, then, White Hat Guest Bloggers should insist that all links to their money websites are nofollow, right?

Since they're so White Hat and all they should not want a benefit from posting (other than the exposure they crave so deeply.)

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yukon

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by mosthost

True. To be on the safe side, then, White Hat Guest Bloggers should insist that all links to their money websites are nofollow, right?

Since they're so White Hat and all they should not want a benefit from posting (other than the exposure they crave so deeply.)

Lol, are you serious?

Your over analyzing external links for any quality guest post.

If your idea of guest post is spun crap, then I suppose a nofollow link would be a good idea. Just saying...

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mosthost

13 years ago

Originally Posted by yukon

Lol, are you serious?

Your over analyzing external links for any quality guest post.

If your idea of guest post is spun crap, then I suppose a nofollow link would be a good idea. Just saying...

I'm dead serious. We might have to bring 'CheekuGames' into this so he can deal with these serious malpractices I'm outlinining.

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yukon Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by mosthost

I'm dead serious. We might have to bring 'CheekuGames' into this so he can deal with these serious malpractices I'm outlinining.

Lol, did you see his latest thread before it self destructed.
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- Mike Anthony 13 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by yukon
  
  Lol, did you see his latest thread before it self destructed.
  
  Heee-larious stuff. IF I wasn't busy working on the solution to everyones network problems I'd get some popcorn and sit down watching WF all day today. BMR closing has people really woundup tight.
  
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dburk

13 years ago

Hi mosthost,

I think the notion that guest blogging is anything other than white hat is nonsense. Guest blogging is an excellent way to add value to the web.

There are some folks that that suggest that any type of website promotion is black hat, and that is just extreme hyperbole and FUD in my opinion. Often people say that because they are looking to rationalize and justify their mass web spamming activity.

My advice: Don't spam, instead add value to the web!

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mosthost

13 years ago

Originally Posted by dburk

Hi mosthost,

I think the notion that guest blogging is anything other than white hat is nonsense. Guest blogging is an excellent way to add value to the web.

There are some folks that that suggest that any type of website promotion is black hat, and that is just extreme hyperbole and FUD in my opinion. Often people say that because they are looking to rationalize and justify their mass web spamming activity.

My advice: Don't spam, instead add value to the web!

I have no problem with the genuine desire to 'add value to the web.' What a noble goal that is.

So do it without links pointing back to your website and I'll agree. As soon as you 'place anchor text' on a remote blog you've stepped over the line.

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dburk

13 years ago

Originally Posted by mosthost

I have no problem with the genuine desire to 'add value to the web.' What a noble goal that is.

So do it without links pointing back to your website and I'll agree. As soon as you 'place anchor text' on a remote blog you've stepped over the line.

Hi mosthost,

That seems like a somewhat jaded viewpoint to me. If you are adding links that point to sites that are helpful to users and contextually relevant, you are adding value, are you not?

As far as I know, Google has never suggested that you shouldn't link to helpful resources or to never provide source attribution. In fact, I have heard Matt Cutts refer to this type of link building as "meritorious links" and personally recommended it as a white hat method of promoting your website.

There is a difference between "earning" top rankings and web spam. You simply cannot earn rankings in highly competitive niches without solid web promotional activity. You seem to be taking the rather extreme position that any type of web promotion should be avoided if it might impact rankings. Thankfully, Google has never adopted such an extreme position.

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Mike Anthony

13 years ago

Originally Posted by mosthost

I have no problem with the genuine desire to 'add value to the web.' What a noble goal that is.

So do it without links pointing back to your website and I'll agree. As soon as you 'place anchor text' on a remote blog you've stepped over the line.

Good then you have just proven that you are wrong

. In many guest blogging situations its not the writer that places the links to a "remote blog" its the owner of the blog.

Anyway as I said your point is dead. Syndicated columnists have links to their main site all the time. Its part of their byline its standard and as white hat as white hat can get.

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mosthost

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Good then you have just proven that you are wrong

. In many guest blogging situations its not the writer that places the links to a "remote blog" its the owner of the blog.

Anyway as I said your point is dead. Syndicated columnists have links to their main site all the time. Its part of their byline its standard and as white hat as white hat can get.

My point isn't dead. It hasn't even remotely been addressed.

Syndicated columnists and 'SEO bloggers' aren't equivalent. However, even if they were IMHO it would be a black hat technique for them to write articles with exact anchor text in them to their pages, journalists or not. I see it happening all the time, especially in verticals where the PPC costs are very high.

IMHO, anyone putting exact anchor text into blog posts should think twice about what the one factor tying all these networks together really is.

If you write a post, place links in it, and then place it on a remote domain, you're already crossing the line.

The owner placing the links is even more suspicious. If the anchor text matches high paying keywords that link to another website where the author gets paid, I think the perception of a payoff can be achieved.

If Matt Cutts decides to go after these types of links quite a few more webmasters will end up where many find themselves today. I'm not saying they'll get a 'notice of unnatural links,' but they could see devaluation or penalties.

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affhelper

13 years ago

Guest posting shouldn't be considered black hat because there is a big major difference between a spammer getting links vs someone doing a guest post on an authority blog.

When you guest post you get an editorial link which means the owner reviewed your site and content before letting it go live.

Spammers' links do not get any editorial review. They just blast away.

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MikeFriedman

13 years ago

Originally Posted by affhelper

Guest posting shouldn't be considered black hat because there is a big major difference between a spammer getting links vs someone doing a guest post on an authority blog.

When you guest post you get an editorial link which means the owner reviewed your site and content before letting it go live.

Spammers' links do not get any editorial review. They just blast away.

Just to play devil's advocate here, but who is to say the owner really reviewed anything? Maybe they just said "Hey free content. I'll take it." They could have posted the article without reviewing the article or the site it linked to.

There is no way to know for sure.

And even if they did review the site it linked to, who is to say they are an authority to determine that site is ok? Did they know how to look for malware? Was the site offering a scam that they didn't understand and thought was legit?

Guest posting is still trying to manipulate Google. Is it maybe a cleaner way than spamming a bunch of blog comments on trashy sites? Yeah, probably. The end goal is still pretty much the same though.

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simona86

13 years ago

A blog owner may allow guest bloggers to post on his website for a few reasons. One may be that he is too busy to post regularly himself. Or he invites guest bloggers to add variety to his blog. Sometimes he may be able to get an established blogger to be a guest blogger to get more traffic.So i think it's not a black hat

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attorneydavid

13 years ago

Originally Posted by simona86

A blog owner may allow guest bloggers to post on his website for a few reasons. One may be that he is too busy to post regularly himself. Or he invites guest bloggers to add variety to his blog. Sometimes he may be able to get an established blogger to be a guest blogger to get more traffic.So i think it's not a black hat

All of which involves a quid pro quo in exchange for a link intended to manipulate search results. The only way Guest posting isn't a little grey is when it's done purely for traffic with a no-follow link.

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Mike Anthony

13 years ago

Originally Posted by mosthost

My point isn't dead. It hasn't even remotely been addressed.

Syndicated columnists and 'SEO bloggers' aren't equivalent. However, even if they were IMHO it would be a black hat technique for them to write articles with exact anchor text in them to their pages, journalists or not. I see it happening all the time, especially in verticals where the PPC costs are very high.

Its dead as doors. If it fits the context than yes even in the body of the article they can leave an anchor text that refers to something they are talking about. Happens all the time. Can and do sites get ranking boosts like that? Yes and its white hat. You cannot rationally claim a white hat status for one profession and then take the exact scenario and say its black hat when another profession does it.

Now what I think you are getting at is when you wink wink write an article and theres an understanding between you and the host blog that its just for the link and nothing else but in many occasions the blog is looking legitimately for content and rewards good content with that privilege.

What you have done in this thread though is make a blanket statement referring to guest blogging in general and though you swear you are right its what makes it entirely wrong. there are many scenarios in which a blogger writing on another persons site is acting EXACTLY like a syndicated columnist and in this day and age with some blogs being multi million dollar establishments with journalists credential and news coverage its just nonsense to make a distinction.

Originally Posted by mosthost

For that reason I can never reveal my proof, because to do so would cause a ripple so severe in White Hat Power Circles that I would probably have to hide to protect my life.

In fact, I'm beginning to think some of the White Hats may actually be Black Hats who are posing as White Hats to avoid the penalties their brethren have received.

LOL. Thats one thing I give you props for Most. even when you are dead wrong at least you are very entertaining - mean it sincerely. Like our style.

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Dellco 13 years ago

It depends on what "type" of guest blogging it is.

There is a whole industry out there where SEO companies liase between the writers and find/contact the blogs/bloggers, to get links for other people or companies.

So is money exchanged here? Usually. So is this black hat? You know the answer....

Money for links equals black hat according to Google, and money has already entered the equation, except it's people paying the SEO companies to get the whole thing arranged.

So there is actually commercial guest blogging and non commercial guest blogging. The former is still paying for links. Same thing as a blog network; no difference really. Tell it to Google.
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webdevpro

13 years ago

IMO guest blogging on reputed sites may not be said as "Black Hat" methods due to the quality (spelling, grammar etc) as well as the presentation of contents they allow on their sites.

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iamseo

13 years ago

In my opinion, Guest blogging is not a "black hat" method because by guest blogging blogger adds value to that blog(quality content) and in written if he puts references to his website. Its totally OK.

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ddshosting

13 years ago

Originally Posted by mosthost

Do you agree with my title?

Do you think the current practice of 'guest blogging' in exchange for 'in-content links' is a legit white hat tactic?

Personally, I think it's just as bad as 'mass guest blogging simulation' because the intent is the EXACT same thing.

I would say that as long as the guest blogging results in high quality content which is useful to users, then it doesn't really matter what the intent was in the first instance. Surely.

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keithneal

13 years ago

Why is this even being discussed like it matters?

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pdrs

13 years ago

Originally Posted by keithneal

Why is this even being discussed like it matters?

Bang on - I was going to say something quite similar to this

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mosthost

13 years ago

Originally Posted by pdrs

Bang on - I was going to say something quite similar to this

You were going to make a comment about how useless the thread was but couldn't come up with a witty way to say it?

Good thing the other guy thought of it first then.

BTW, thanks for the contribution. It was scintillating.

Looks like there are lots of touchy bloggers around these days!

CheekuGames is working on a solution for this anyway, so we won't have to wait long until White Hat guest bloggers are facing the same fate as everyone else.

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pdrs

13 years ago

Originally Posted by mosthost

You were going to make a comment about how useless the thread was but couldn't come up with a witty way to say it?

Good thing the other guy thought of it first then.

BTW, thanks for the contribution. It was scintillating.

Looks like there are lots of touchy bloggers around these days!

CheekuGames is working on a solution for this anyway, so we won't have to wait long until White Hat guest bloggers are facing the same fate as everyone else.

So now voicing your agreement with someone else is frowned upon?

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Quixx

13 years ago

It's just a matter of definition. A guest blogger excanges content for a link. That's a bought link.
If your definition of whitehat linkbuilding leans toward the strict side, then I don't think you can call it whitehat. There is exchange involved.. it's not a link being dropped by John Smith because he loved your site so much he decided to link out to it.

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patco

13 years ago

It is a well-known white hat method. Who told you that it is a black hat??? This is NOT right, do you have any proofs to think that guest blogging is a black hat?!? I am very curious what you are going to reply

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mosthost

13 years ago

Originally Posted by patco

It is a well-known white hat method. Who told you that it is a black hat??? This is NOT right, do you have any proofs to think that guest blogging is a black hat?!? I am very curious what you are going to reply

I do indeed have definitive proof. However, I long ago swore an oath to never collaborate with Google at the expense of a webmaster colleague.

For that reason I can never reveal my proof, because to do so would cause a ripple so severe in White Hat Power Circles that I would probably have to hide to protect my life.

In fact, I'm beginning to think some of the White Hats may actually be Black Hats who are posing as White Hats to avoid the penalties their brethren have received.

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sovereignn

13 years ago

It's just about as white hat as it gets

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jessiepadgal

13 years ago

Guest blogging is white hat. Most black hat, spammy attempts at it wouldn't be successful anyhow.

Seeing as quality is a factor it is already a light year away from 150 nonsensical words on a splog.

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rahulkashyap

13 years ago

guest blogging is very good increasing your website PR and backlinks it is very good formula get traffic

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footfoot

13 years ago

Some "black hat" is more Google friendly than others and this happens to be one of them.

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dburk 13 years ago

Originally Posted by footfoot

Some "black hat" is more Google friendly than others and this happens to be one of them.

Seriously? :confused:

You are calling something "Google friendly" and "black hat" in the same sentence? That seems a bit oxymoronic, don't you think? :rolleyes:
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sunray

13 years ago

In Google's eyes every action you take because of the search engines is black hat, at least what concerns your backlinks anyway. For them any backlink you placed yourself is like a click you made on your own Adsense ad.

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JDBradley

13 years ago

Black Hat is what ever google says is bad (at the moment) and white hat is whatever google says is good (at the moment). So guest blogging is white hat (at the moment).

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JSProjects

13 years ago

Originally Posted by mosthost

Do you agree with my title?

Do you think the current practice of 'guest blogging' in exchange for 'in-content links' is a legit white hat tactic?

Personally, I think it's just as bad as 'mass guest blogging simulation' because the intent is the EXACT same thing.

Not even close to being black hat.

All you're doing with this thread is being overly dramatic.

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dminorfmajor

13 years ago

It's very white hat unless you pay for them. When money exchanges hands is when it becomes Gray/Black hat.

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jimmyn 13 years ago

Originally Posted by dminorfmajor

It's very white hat unless you pay for them. When money exchanges hands is when it becomes Gray/Black hat.

Doesn't content cost money? Would they write it for free if they weren't getting the link?

Also on a separate point, how can anyone prove something is black hat when there is no clear definition of the term.

If you're optimising a post on a site for external linking the same way you would do for your internal linking, then you could say this is "black hat".
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thepresence

13 years ago

This is a great discussion about what is white versus black. Let me add my 2 cents. Google is now slightly favoring large, well-known websites over smaller ones. Do you know what many of these large companies do? They send out a note to all employees and have them go "like" and "+1" all of the articles that are on their site. Would you say this is "white" or "black"? How is this any different from someone paying $5 for the same result on a site like fiverr.com?

I own a guest blogging product that allows inbound, do follow, contextual links from many high PR websites. Is it black hat? No way. We mandate that all authors create articles that are unique and can stand on their own. These articles build great keyword anchor links to the authors main site.

Of course, Google has devalued most article sites and rightly so. Most of them are filled with rewritten, spammy, or duplicate content that provides no real value.

But, Guest Blogging done right is the new way to build solid inbound links.

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mosthost

13 years ago

The quality of 'guest posts' is very low for the most part. SEO companies writing articles for their clients with 3 exact anchor text links in them is hardly a tactic anyone could call 'white hat.'

'Thepresence' wrote: "I own a guest blogging product that allows inbound, do follow, contextual links from many high PR websites. Is it black hat?"

Indeed it is. It sounds so completely black hat that's it's now INDIGO.

The only people interested in that service are 'link builders' and 'SEOs.' They aren't writing to build their audience or their expertise. They're writing for the links.

The intention is merely to game Google, as usual.

BTW, I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade, here. I understand that you have to try and market your 'link scheme' as White Hat.

That said, the presence of the 'dofollow, contextual links' from 'high PR websites' is all the proof Google will need to devalue this method soon enough. The whole thing looks mighty unnatural to Google's algo I'm sure.

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tylerherman

13 years ago

Originally Posted by mosthost

The quality of 'guest posts' is very low for the most part. SEO companies writing articles for their clients with 3 exact anchor text links in them is hardly a tactic anyone could call 'white hat.'

'Thepresence' wrote: "I own a guest blogging product that allows inbound, do follow, contextual links from many high PR websites. Is it black hat?"

Indeed it is. It sounds so completely black hat that's it's now INDIGO.

The only people interested in that service are 'link builders' and 'SEOs.' They aren't writing to build their audience or their expertise. They're writing for the links.

The intention is merely to game Google, as usual.

BTW, I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade, here. I understand that you have to try and market your 'link scheme' as White Hat.

That said, the presence of the 'dofollow, contextual links' from 'high PR websites' is all the proof Google will need to devalue this method soon enough. The whole thing looks mighty unnatural to Google's algo I'm sure.

You are only looking at this from the standpoint of an IMer. What people allow the garbage articles SEO companies write to be posted on their blogs? Real blogs don't allow SEO garbage.

The whole blogging world is built upon commenting, sharing links and guest posting. I know it sounds crazy, but there are people who have blogs who write just for the fun of it, and don't try to make money. They don't care about SEO either.

Google is never going to consider guest post links black hat because blogging/guest posting/commenting is how the internet was built. Yah, if you have 500,000 comment links coming back to your 5 page niche site, Google might put the hammer down. But they are never going to discourage guest posts because guest posts are an important part of blogging.

Guest posting is a way to share information and different perspectives. It had a purpose before SEO and Google would be crazy to try to regulate the links created from it because real blogs don't let IM and SEO spammers write guest posts for them. As long as the quality remains high Google will never look down on guest posts.

So no it isn't black hat.

Guest posting has a purpose other than SEO.

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mosthost

13 years ago

Originally Posted by tylerherman

Guest posting is a way to share information and different perspectives. It had a purpose before SEO and Google would be crazy to try to regulate the links created from it because real blogs don't let IM and SEO spammers write guest posts for them. As long as the quality remains high Google will never look down on guest posts.

So no it isn't black hat.

Guest posting has a purpose other than SEO.

As soon as somebody shoves three anchor text links in there, the hat color changes

"Real blogs" as you call them seem to allow all sorts of self-serving links in them. You're confusing well-written and well-edited content with being 'White Hat.'

Sure, a lot of the quality of the content is fine. Still, the write was 'paid off' with 'Google-influencing' links. The author knows it. The blogger knows he paid for the content with backlinks. And Google knows what went down too.

I think people are being way to cocky about guest posting being untouchable.

The exact anchor text links could end up spelling doom.

I'm not saying it will happen, but in light of everything else Google has outlawed, it wouldn't surprise me to see them frown on this practice. Don't forget, article directories and link directories use to be "Okay" for many years before Google turned on the practice.

Even if guest blogging is working now, think about what will happen. It will get even more popular. It will be touted as a miracle cure for rankings. It will be abused UNMERCIFULLY. Then the exploit will be closed.

People should be prepared for that day. There's no use pretending that donating blog articles for backlinks is an accepted practice. It's tolerated by Google. For now.

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amiramin

13 years ago

If Guest blogging is black or gray hat. Then nothing is white hat

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mosthost 13 years ago

Originally Posted by amiramin

If Guest blogging is black or gray hat. Then nothing is white hat

You got it. Nothing is 'white hat.' White Hat SEO refers to 'doing nothing' to manipulate Google search.

In simple terms, someone would guest post out of the goodness of their heart, interest in the subject, or for exposure. As soon as they start guest posting for backlinks, they're now Black Hatters.
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- retsek 13 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by mosthost
  
  You got it. Nothing is 'white hat.' White Hat SEO refers to 'doing nothing' to manipulate Google search.
  
  Quoted for Truth!
  
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daweelmac

13 years ago

I guess not. Guest posting is not a black hat but a white hat. But the articles must be thoroughly moderated to avoid getting penalized by Google.

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gabibeowulf

13 years ago

This "war of the hats" thing is so exhausting...

I'm sure not even Google thinks in terms of white hat, grey hat, black hat, blue hat --> one of my favorites if you know what I mean.

I only care about what's working now ... and you'd be surprised as to what worked yesterday, or last year still works today.

Google may be "out to get us", but still they haven't cleaned up the web in the big purge they call panda. It's just scare tactics and smoke in the wind.

Should you solely rely on Google's traffic for you business? Hell no, but still .. as long as I can get a boatload of traffic from Google, I'll take that for as long as I can. And I don't care about labels white, black, gray, orange .. Seems silly to me.

Everything has an expiration date .. even so called "white hat practices" that google endorses today like "social interaction". Even Google may be rendered obsolete by the new kid on the block in the next future.

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Troyman

13 years ago

If you go by google's rules. Then anything you do that is offsite seo is considered black hat.

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yukon

Banned 13 years ago

Guest blogging isn't always about SEO/backlinks.

Get your sites name on a bunch of niche related blogs in a very short time & their followers/traffic will send you very targeted traffic.

Google is good for traffic but their not always the best traffic.

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tylerherman

13 years ago

Originally Posted by yukon

Guest blogging isn't always about SEO/backlinks.

Get your sites name on a bunch of niche related blogs in a very short time & their followers/traffic will send you very targeted traffic.

Google is good for traffic but their not always the best traffic.

Exactly. Those links are bringing you highly relevant traffic. You don't need Google because people can get to your site via other peoples sites. Similar to social media.

People forget there was a time before search engines. Google still has to value these links because they are quality. If they consider do-follow guest post links black hat then all do-follow links are black hat. Really all links would be black hat. If Google still values links guest post links are some of the highest quality links there are.

And if Google decides to ignore links altogether people will continue to guest post, for the relevant traffic and name recognition if nothing else.

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paul nicholls

13 years ago

guest posting is one of the best ways to build links

reason?

because google loves contextual links and they carry a lot of weight

so if you can get a link on a relevant/related site of yours then this will be super powerful

and no i dont class this as black hat at all

paul

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NXmarketeer

13 years ago

so... forbes, huffington post (past) and many many others are black hat?

i don't think so!

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jetsetter883

13 years ago

Originally Posted by mosthost

Do you agree with my title?

Do you think the current practice of 'guest blogging' in exchange for 'in-content links' is a legit white hat tactic?

Personally, I think it's just as bad as 'mass guest blogging simulation' because the intent is the EXACT same thing.

Tell us more, Rand

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Nicky Papers

13 years ago

Debates that involve comparing "Black Hat" to "White Hat" SEO practices needs to end.

Stop talking and start working!

Budget, experience, efficiency, and results will always prevail. Period.

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chukcha

13 years ago

If you are worrying about google and want to promote white hat only you should stop doing SEO right now.
There are no white hat .... actually I'm wrong there is such thing it's called adwords 100% white hat.
The rest can be interpreted differently by different people. I hope that make sense.

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dataprocessingoutsource

13 years ago

Guest blogging is a good way to making your brand and getting good ranking in search engine.

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OmarNegron

13 years ago

This is a funny topic of discussion. Made me laugh because I always thought of white hat and black hat as good vs evil when it comes to doing SEO. But then after some years of experience I realized that SEO itself is gaming the entire Google system so in the end we are all

"gaming the system"

The only way not to game the system is to write quality content and let people magically find you without you building backlinks. And honestly I do not see this happening.

Just a thought.