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  • SEO
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Just been updated that there's been some Panda killing again. A few of my sites went down the drain.

Official Google Webmaster Central Blog: Another step to reward high-quality sites

Anyone experiencing it?
#2012 #end #panda update #seo #webspam
  • Profile picture of the author wAvision
    yeah tons...
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    They Say You Can't...Show Them How
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  • Profile picture of the author Devin X
    Banned
    Yes and no. I asked about this in this thread, here.
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  • No, it's not the end of SEO.

    It is just a game of ping pong that goes back and forth. People with $$$ and knowledge of the right software tools will still be able to game the search engines.

    However, for the "little" guy (one man operations), it will be much more difficult. Especially if he/she is trying to do it all himself/herself.

    Johnathan
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    Pick a product. Pick ANY product! -> 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9
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    • Right said, now SEO is not possible for the single working person
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      • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
        Originally Posted by Seo service provider View Post

        Right said, now SEO is not possible for the single working person
        What?????

        That's is a REALLY limited view and definitely WRONG WRONG WRONG!!!!
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        nothing to see here.

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    • Profile picture of the author hadsek
      @ SeekSuccess

      I second your opinion but I doubt the search engines are even close to being capable of properly filtering that.The line between natural and unatural is often blurred.Not to mention dwelling on this criterion alone will return lots of poor results, too.
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  • Profile picture of the author dallas2g5
    Pretty bold statement...hope its not true :/
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    • Profile picture of the author JSProjects
      Originally Posted by dallas2g5 View Post

      Pretty bold statement...hope its not true :/
      Don't worry. It's not.

      Google is trying to make things harder. But they've been doing this for years and the smart ones keep evolving & implementing new techniques.
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      • Profile picture of the author Jeff Schuman
        Here is an example of what Google ranks #10 for the phrase "make money"

        make

        They may have good intentions, but in reality they can not control who links to your site or my site and they have decided to go ahead and punish everyone as their solution to that.

        In the end I suggest running to social media and finding ways to get quality traffic that way. Forget Google as in the long run you can never win a game that you do not understand the rules for, and the rules change in the middle of the game.
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        Jeff Schuman - Blog Writer For Hire! Buy affordable, quality niche blog articles. Fast turnaround.
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  • Profile picture of the author seoleaf
    Seems like this time Google are targeting bad quality websites. As defined by google's quality guidelines, Webmaster Guidelines - Webmaster Tools Help

    some old mature site which has been massively promoted and involved in buying backlinks has dissapear. Other site which has lesser backlink build to it dropped a few notch, and new sites without just proper backlink build to it is maintaining.

    This is the statement published today from Google

    "In the next few days, we’re launching an important algorithm change targeted at webspam. The change will decrease rankings for sites that we believe are violating Google’s existing quality guidelines. We’ve always targeted webspam in our rankings, and this algorithm represents another improvement in our efforts to reduce webspam and promote high quality content. While we can't divulge specific signals because we don't want to give people a way to game our search results and worsen the experience for users, our advice for webmasters is to focus on creating high quality sites that create a good user experience and employ white hat SEO methods instead of engaging in aggressive webspam tactics."
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  • Profile picture of the author serafina
    Google Sh**, Many of my sites were affected. SO what's link buillding work right now?
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  • Profile picture of the author retsek
    Well maybe the big part of why you're hurting is that you don't even understand that this last update wasn't even Panda.
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  • Profile picture of the author sovereignn
    SEO Has been changing since the beginning

    We learn to adapt and we conquer
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  • Profile picture of the author Mary Davis
    I don't think it's the death of SEO - it's the re-birth of innovation.

    Some people will opt to use white-hat methods to continually improve their web content, while others will choose to use black-hat methods or models. Undoubtedly some people will find a new way to subvert Google's target objective of upholding a better web experience through unique and original content.

    Which method will you choose?

    Ebiz Mom
    Marketing with Integrity

    P.S. - One of my favorite quotes:


    “Discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking what no one else has thought.”

    Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
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  • Profile picture of the author Ashera
    The end of automated SEO, garbage link schemes, and spun content, yes. The end of SEO? No.
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    If you don't change direction, you'll end up where you're going.
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  • Profile picture of the author haffow
    its not true...SEO is still rock the internet marketting
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  • Profile picture of the author John Romaine
    Ive been posting SOLID original high quality content here Start An SEO Business | SEO Blog on my blog and guess what?

    My rankings are no-where to be found.

    This is the problem. You post high quality original conent and you get lousy results. You post a mediocre article and backlink the hell out of it, and you get good search placement rankings.

    Why cant these monkeys get it right?

    Surely they should be investing more time towards identifying GOOD content, as opposed to penalising the BAD stuff.

    ...urgh.
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    BS free SEO services, training and advice - SEO Point

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    • Profile picture of the author thedog
      Originally Posted by John Romaine View Post

      Ive been posting SOLID original high quality content here Start An SEO Business | SEO Blog on my blog and guess what?

      My rankings are no-where to be found.

      This is the problem. You post high quality original conent and you get lousy results. You post a mediocre article and backlink the hell out of it, and you get good search placement rankings.

      Why cant these monkeys get it right?

      Surely they should be investing more time towards identifying GOOD content, as opposed to penalising the BAD stuff.

      ...urgh.
      I hear ye, I've been working hard on a site for 2 months, brought it from no where to page 7, then top of page 3... now back on page 6.

      I've been adding videos, original content to article directories and web 2.0's... I mean, what exactly are we supposed to be doing?

      This was a non affiliate site.

      My affiliate sites have taken a hammering... most of which are EMD'S... are they targeting EMD'S? who knows?

      Now I'm hearing that you shouldn't be using google analytics for any of your sites?

      The thing is, I can see a lot of my competition hasn't been effected... so, If they find one of your sites, breaking their rules, what ever they are, does that mean they go after all your sites? that are using the same GA account and hosting account?

      In essence, de-ranked by association?

      I've been trying to keep up with Google's updates, and understand them, and work in their guidlines... their main message is original content, and no link stuffing, or ALN etc...

      I've played their game... at least I thought I was...

      Are we supposed to have different hosting accounts now for each site?
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    • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
      Originally Posted by John Romaine View Post

      Ive been posting SOLID original high quality content here Start An SEO Business | SEO Blog on my blog and guess what?

      My rankings are no-where to be found.

      This is the problem. You post high quality original conent and you get lousy results. You post a mediocre article and backlink the hell out of it, and you get good search placement rankings.

      Why cant these monkeys get it right?

      Surely they should be investing more time towards identifying GOOD content, as opposed to penalising the BAD stuff.

      ...urgh.
      That's the real core of what's going on.

      It's not a one-sided thing.

      Yes they're trying to expose good content - but just having good content is not enough.

      And if you do mass link building (yes, profile links are spam to Google too) then your great content will not show up because they'll slap you because of your links.

      People seem to think this stuff is all about penalising bad sites - it's not. It's also about stopping good sites being artificially high because of mass linking.

      The stuff that has worked for years is now the same stuff that will get your site slapped either out of site or out of the index completely.

      So - the only way to be sure that you're safe is - Good content AND good links.

      Andy
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      nothing to see here.

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      • Profile picture of the author Shanti10
        Its been said before but this just gives a big boost to a competitor who wants to take you down by simply getting loads of crappy links to your sites. Whoosh, you are gone. Has Google thought this through?

        Here is the silly reply from Google:

        Google works hard to prevent other webmasters from being able to harm your ranking or have your site removed from our index. If you're concerned about another site linking to yours, we suggest contacting the webmaster of the site in question. Google aggregates and organizes information published on the web; we don't control the content of these pages.

        I can see a whole new business model for some unscrupulous guys - 'buy our competitor destruction services!'.

        Come on Google, sort it out.
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        • Profile picture of the author colourofspring
          Google works hard to prevent other webmasters from being able to harm your ranking or have your site removed from our index. If you're concerned about another site linking to yours, we suggest contacting the webmaster of the site in question. Google aggregates and organizes information published on the web; we don't control the content of these pages.

          That's Google's official answer to how you tackle negative SEO - you contact those 30,000 forum owners and ask them to remove those dodgy forum profiles your competitor built for your site for $5. If you can't do that, you're categorised as "webspam". But hey, if you can spare the many months to get those links removed (and rely on the goodwill of thousands of people), Google may reconsider your site.
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      • Profile picture of the author Jit Lim
        There's been reports across various IM forums over the last few days. Not sure what's going on. Anyone here has inside info on or know anyone on the inside of what's changed apart from the official stuff?
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      • Profile picture of the author thedog
        Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

        So - the only way to be sure that you're safe is - Good content AND good links.
        What's a good link these days? I know the obvious bad links... but, what exactly is a good link?
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        • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
          Originally Posted by thedog View Post

          What's a good link these days? I know the obvious bad links... but, what exactly is a good link?
          A normal, in context, relevant link that makes sense for what you might expect from a normal recommendation/link to a site.

          i.e -
          articles with good content and relevant link.
          press releases
          Sensible blog comments (on related blogs with rational content/post)
          Twitter posts with link
          Facebook messages with link
          Web2.0 related content with link


          Etc. etc.

          It's not just about the links themselves but the context, number etc.

          So if you only 2000 links to your site and they all came from web2.0 profiles on russion gaming sites, with no content - that will get you slapped.

          If you just had one - it probably wouldn't matter.

          Also - it depends on whether a Google human has looked at your site/links.

          If they see that all your links come from 10 places and those places solely use links they don't like - then they're not stupid and you might expect to get slapped.

          Basically it's simple - if you do any link building to falsely increase your Page Rank you can expect a slap at some point.

          You may get away with it for a while, maybe not.

          If one of your competitors see your dodgy links and reports your site - you'll get slapped very quickly.

          This whole notion of "links can't hurt your site - because otherwise your competitors could hurt you" that people blindly run around saying is out of date. I've been saying it for ages now, but with the recent Google updates many thousands of people are now feeling the impact of it.

          There's no fixed line in the sand about what you can expect and how long it will take. If you try and ruin your competitors by buying crap links to their site - you should realise that when you make a payment you are leaving a trail and you can be prosecuted for such things, so don't take the consequences of negative activities too lightly either.

          Andy
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          nothing to see here.

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        • Profile picture of the author Mohan Harianto
          Originally Posted by thedog View Post

          What's a good link these days? I know the obvious bad links... but, what exactly is a good link?
          today, we cann;t find good link
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    • Profile picture of the author Gerald Arno
      Banned
      Originally Posted by John Romaine View Post

      Ive been posting SOLID original high quality content here Start An SEO Business | SEO Blog on my blog and guess what?

      My rankings are no-where to be found.

      This is the problem. You post high quality original conent and you get lousy results. You post a mediocre article and backlink the hell out of it, and you get good search placement rankings.

      Why cant these monkeys get it right?

      Surely they should be investing more time towards identifying GOOD content, as opposed to penalising the BAD stuff.

      ...urgh.
      It seems that Google is not necessary rewarding sites with great content. Also, it seems that Google is simply not allowing skilled people to rank successfully.

      What worked for 4 months, is just not working as well anymore.

      If you want to succeed in SEO you need a hell load of creativity and willingness to adjust to those never ending changes.

      It´s a lot different compared with Forum Marketing, list building, etc.

      You have more control over those marketing approaches than you have over SEO.
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      • Profile picture of the author John Romaine
        Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

        That's the real core of what's going on. It's not a one-sided thing.
        So are you saying they're trying to reward sites that contain good content? Because if that's the case, I'm not seeing much evidence of that.

        Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

        And if you do mass link building (yes, profile links are spam to Google too) then your great content will not show up because they'll slap you because of your links.
        I've not done any of that on this site, purposely, to see if my content would rank well, based on its own merit. This hasn't been the case unfortunately.

        Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

        People seem to think this stuff is all about penalising bad sites - it's not. It's also about stopping good sites being artificially high because of mass linking.
        Penalising bad sites makes sense, as does good sites with artificial links. But what about GOOD sites, that only have natural links???? Given what I've seen/experienced, that doesn't appear to be enough either?

        Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

        So - the only way to be sure that you're safe is - Good content AND good links.
        Publishing good content is easy. Getting good quality links isn't. You know after I published about 25 articles, I decided to send seomoz, seo round table, search engine land, seobook, and search engine journal an email asking if they would be willing to link to my site, or perhaps link to one of my articles. (My site is SEO related)

        I made sure I was sincere in my email and worded it in a way that demonstrated that I was genuine about my request. I wasnt just out to push some crappy thin affiliate site. I provided them with everything they needed to assess my site.

        Do you know how many replies I got back?

        NONE. Not even a "thanks but no thanks.."

        The truth is. No one gives a ****, about you, your website, or your product. And why should they?

        Given that, getting "good quality links" is virtually impossible. Okay, its not impossible, but its extremely hard. I'm getting sick and damn tired of Matt Cutts saying "....engage with other webmasters and ask them to link to you..." It just doesnt happen that way.

        Google's perception of the web is seriously skewed.

        Writing good quality content and getting other webmasters to link to you, just doesnt work, which is probably the very reason why, people turn to link building networks and pushing artificial links.

        Why would person B spend days or months on end, tirelessly emailing other site owners, asking for a link, when person A, simply spins a chunk of garbage, publishes it, then pushes artificial links and it ranks in 3 days?

        I understand that Google acknowledges this as problematic, but this issue has been around for YEARS.

        Is it getting any better???? I dont know....

        Andy, I agree with what you're saying, Im not arguing the point, however out of interest, just recently, I went about purposely publishing comprehensive articles (some 2,000 words long) all of which contain onsite links, images, useful resources, and links to other (helpful) sites. In essence, I really ramped up my efforts to deliver the best quality content I could.

        Even though these articles are getting social engagement (likes, +1's, tweets and so on) ...they're absolutely NOWHERE in the SERPS. Actually I wrote about what I did in this article here.

        Actually this site has a bounce rate of 44%, a 40% return visitor count, as well as an average time onsite of 4+ minutes.

        Again, I agree with your points Andy, it just gets frustrating ...thats all.

        *shrug...

        Originally Posted by thedog View Post

        Now I'm hearing that you shouldn't be using google analytics for any of your sites?
        Nah man, Id say thats a rumour. I know a few high profile marketers and they all recommend GA. I use it, too, for all of my sites.

        Originally Posted by thedog View Post

        The thing is, I can see a lot of my competition hasn't been effected... so, If they find one of your sites, breaking their rules, what ever they are, does that mean they go after all your sites? that are using the same GA account and hosting account?

        In essence, de-ranked by association?
        Hmm, yeah, who knows. There's really no way of knowing for certain. What's interesting is your wording there.."breaking the rules, whatever they are"

        I couldnt have said it better myself.

        Originally Posted by thedog View Post

        Are we supposed to have different hosting accounts now for each site?
        Of course not.

        Originally Posted by thedog View Post

        What's a good link these days? I know the obvious bad links... but, what exactly is a good link?
        A good link will be from a site where no one cares about you, your site, or your offer.

        Good luck

        Originally Posted by GeraldGigerl View Post

        It seems that Google is not necessary rewarding sites with great content.
        You don't say.

        This whole Google thing really doesnt make much sense at all.

        Its like getting called for a foul in a game of sport, when you ....

        1. Dont clearly understand the rules
        2. The rules (those that you are aware of) constantly change
        3. The rules really are anyones best guess
        4. You do your best to play with good intentions and those that obviously break them are the ones scoring all the goals.

        *..shakes head.
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        • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
          Originally Posted by John Romaine View Post

          So are you saying they're trying to reward sites that contain good content? Because if that's the case, I'm not seeing much evidence of that.


          I've not done any of that on this site, purposely, to see if my content would rank well, based on its own merit. This hasn't been the case unfortunately.


          Penalising bad sites makes sense, as does good sites with artificial links. But what about GOOD sites, that only have natural links???? Given what I've seen/experienced, that doesn't appear to be enough either?
          Hey John,

          I hear you.

          The thing is - to describe what is a complicated subject (when you try to be general) we're using simple labels and generalisations. As with anything - this stuff doesn't come down to generalisations.

          Your niche makes a MASSIVE difference.

          If all of the sites you're trying to get links from are run by SEO's - there's a good chance that they have the "what's in it for me?" syndrome and are just focused on getting links in rather than out, and when they link out it's to equally big sites.

          Why should they care about your site?

          I bet if you had the right USP they would.

          For example if you had just found out that a well-known celebrity had used blackhat seo to get search visibility over someone small who had a long established site and this person emailed you with evidence - your post exposing the situation would probably get picked up all over the internet and happily republished with links by all the sites you're struggling to get responses from.

          This is a little bit different but when I played drums in a band there were many venues that wouldn't allow new bands to play because they wanted to be sure of good attendance and so they only booked bands with a big following. My band asked several times to play at some of them and were always turned down. Bands we knew that were better than us and had more of a following and even had an agent trying to get them their gigs also couldn't get gigs in those venues.

          One night we got a call from one of them saying their band for that night had let them down and were we able to turn up within the hour and do a gig that night. We had all our own gear and a van so it was easy to say yes. We played that gig. From then on we had gigs in all of the exlusive venues whenever we wanted them because we built a reputation of being reliable, fun and always drawing a crowd. Some of those venues would try to book us a year in advance.

          So while what we were doing had not really changed - the thing that got the people we were trying to engage with to care about us what that we solved a problem for them and made it clear we were able to do that again and again.

          People value reliable sources.

          Don't give up. If you're creating great content it may not be getting visibility yet (never just rely on content alone) but what it will be doing is building a stack of collatoral that at some point someone will see the value of and it might be the thing that tips the scales.

          The last time I tried to get any of the big SEO names to do anything was about 8 years ago and they were happy to because I was doing something which they didn't have the time to do and were happy to help me in order that they could have it to offer to their customers.

          You should never have a business model that means you need to rely on other people, but don't try to do everything alone - even if all you did was join forces (and lists) with 1/2 dozen other seo WF members - I bet that leverage would empower you quite a lot.

          Andy
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          nothing to see here.

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    • Profile picture of the author celente
      Originally Posted by John Romaine View Post

      Ive been posting SOLID original high quality content here Start An SEO Business | SEO Blog on my blog and guess what?

      My rankings are no-where to be found.

      This is the problem. You post high quality original conent and you get lousy results. You post a mediocre article and backlink the hell out of it, and you get good search placement rankings.

      Why cant these monkeys get it right?

      Surely they should be investing more time towards identifying GOOD content, as opposed to penalising the BAD stuff.

      ...urgh.

      Just sent my 7 monkeys at seven typewriters to this post!

      have only used my whip on them 3 times today. :p
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      [DELETED]
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      • Profile picture of the author Ashera
        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

        I think it s your links. the way you are doing it in your sig for example. Those days are just about done.
        I have to agree on this one. Out of context anchor text links are just about useless or even worse, harmful nowadays.
        Signature
        If you don't change direction, you'll end up where you're going.
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  • Profile picture of the author WorkOnline
    SEO is not dead. It's natural for everybody to experience ups and downs. We just have to work hard to make it till the end.
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    • Profile picture of the author Tizzko
      It's the end of spammy crappy spinning blog networking fiverring type of SEO, yes.
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  • Profile picture of the author YasirYar
    Definitely not the end of SEO. The Google update has just changed the way things need to be done hereon. I do believe the next few months will be very volatile, but Google will get it right soon enough.

    SEO is always going to be there. People will continue to optimize their websites to rank highly, even though the techniques by which they do this has been evolving since the idea of SEO first evolved.

    I know a lot of people are frustrated right now, but I do believe if your content was good and SEO techniques were legitimate, you will get back your rankings soon.
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    • Profile picture of the author seeksucces
      Originally Posted by YasirYar View Post

      Definitely not the end of SEO. The Google update has just changed the way things need to be done hereon. I do believe the next few months will be very volatile, but Google will get it right soon enough.

      SEO is always going to be there. People will continue to optimize their websites to rank highly, even though the techniques by which they do this has been evolving since the idea of SEO first evolved.

      I know a lot of people are frustrated right now, but I do believe if your content was good and SEO techniques were legitimate, you will get back your rankings soon.
      I am starting to think people don't understand SEO at all. IMO from all my experience, as time moves on, SEO is going to completely die. Google doesn't want you to 'pay' for your rankings in any way, shape, or form. So, as Google converges further to where they want to go, all of the methods people use that are not 'natural' methods are going to stop working, and you will no longer need SEO experts.

      All that you are going to need is to publish super high quality on your site.

      I find this a hard subject that someone could argue with. All of the methods that Google has been eliminating recently (with Panda for example) have made methods of manipulating their system harder. I see that this is going to be the case for a long time moving forward, and that SEO is to become totally obsolete and unnecessary as any unnatural SEO building will be unwarranted and could potentially penalize your site for not being natural.
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      • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
        Originally Posted by seeksucces View Post

        All that you are going to need is to publish super high quality on your site.

        I find this a hard subject that someone could argue with.
        That's because you're missing a huge element of the situation - It's virtually impossible to automate the determination of what is 'super high quality'.

        Unless every site on the internet is manually assessed - you can never get this right and therefore there will always be automation trying to make a best guess effort at that judgement.

        The biggest difference in all the recent Google changes has been nothing to do with the content of people's sites, but in how Google determine the judgement about the value of that site - which comes down to the response it illicits from it's visitors.

        This is why they are discounting all the crap links that used to add up to some small value and even penalising people for trying to trick them.

        They'll always need to make a judgement about your website based on:

        1 - user experience. (speed of loading, amount of content, relevance of content etc.)
        2 - response of user (do people stay on your site, how many pages do they consume, do they talk about it on social networks, do they republish your content, do they 'rate' your content (Google+, Facebook Likes etc.), do they bookmark it).

        If you have a great site that no-one links to - it's irrelevant.

        If you have a crap site that people link to - your links will be assessed and penalised if they look manipulated.

        Google make their money from charging people to advertise - they create value for their advertisers by ensuring they show the best results for the searches being made so that they have a large user base.

        SEO is not going anywhere - you just need to use your brain and move with the times.

        Search marketing is getting bigger all the time.

        Andy
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        nothing to see here.

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        • Profile picture of the author seeksucces
          Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

          That's because you're missing a huge element of the situation - It's virtually impossible to automate the determination of what is 'super high quality'.

          Unless every site on the internet is manually assessed - you can never get this right and therefore there will always be automation trying to make a best guess effort at that judgement.

          The biggest difference in all the recent Google changes has been nothing to do with the content of people's sites, but in how Google determine the judgement about the value of that site - which comes down to the response it illicits from it's visitors.

          This is why they are discounting all the crap links that used to add up to some small value and even penalising people for trying to trick them.

          They'll always need to make a judgement about your website based on:

          1 - user experience. (speed of loading, amount of content, relevance of content etc.)
          2 - response of user (do people stay on your site, how many pages do they consume, do they talk about it on social networks, do they republish your content, do they 'rate' your content (Google+, Facebook Likes etc.), do they bookmark it).

          If you have a great site that no-one links to - it's irrelevant.

          If you have a crap site that people link to - your links will be assessed and penalised if they look manipulated.

          Google make their money from charging people to advertise - they create value for their advertisers by ensuring they show the best results for the searches being made so that they have a large user base.

          SEO is not going anywhere - you just need to use your brain and move with the times.

          Search marketing is getting bigger all the time.

          Andy
          Everyone on this forum can focus on SEO all they like. But focusing on SEO is exactly the opposite of how Google sees naturally built high quality sites.

          A high quality site with natural links is essentially a site that just focused on one thing, providing value, benefit, and high quality to their user. The more of that there is, the more people are going to choose to link to this information because it is valuable.

          As an example, if the Hardvard Law School President publishes a paper about a really important subject, he is naturally going to get linked from reputable sources, and this article is going to get high rankings and good traffic. Where is the SEO? There isn't because even thinking about SEO is a flawed mentality and over time, Google is going to eliminate "thinking about SEO based sites." The real value and the real quality sites are going to be the one's getting rankings.
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      • Profile picture of the author YasirYar
        Originally Posted by seeksucces View Post

        I am starting to think people don't understand SEO at all. IMO from all my experience, as time moves on, SEO is going to completely die. Google doesn't want you to 'pay' for your rankings in any way, shape, or form. So, as Google converges further to where they want to go, all of the methods people use that are not 'natural' methods are going to stop working, and you will no longer need SEO experts.

        All that you are going to need is to publish super high quality on your site.

        I find this a hard subject that someone could argue with. All of the methods that Google has been eliminating recently (with Panda for example) have made methods of manipulating their system harder. I see that this is going to be the case for a long time moving forward, and that SEO is to become totally obsolete and unnecessary as any unnatural SEO building will be unwarranted and could potentially penalize your site for not being natural.

        Do you really think Google will be able to come up with an update that people will just not be able to manipulate? I'm sorry, but I can never see that happening.

        People have done it before, and they will do it again. It is all a matter of keeping up with the trends. Sure, it won't be as easy as it once was where you'd just run Scrapebox and reach number 1 in position. SEO is slowly becoming more and more difficult to understand and carry out, and that trend will continue, but to say that people will not be able to optimize their websites because of a Google update, that is a misunderstanding as far as I am concerned.

        I completely agree that content is playing an increasing role, but there is always going to be a role for intelligent link building. The methods by which it is done, however, has and will continue to change rather dramatically.
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  • Profile picture of the author Premier Plugins
    I think this is a turn-point in Google SEO. Those of you who are doing the "right" stuff will have little to worry about after the storm clears. You'll likely come back with better rankings than before.

    The latest big algorithm update, and the following demonstration, that showed the true power of "negative SEO" has to have Google in a hurricane of putting out fires. I'd expect the next month or two to be extremely volatile in terms of consistency. From everything I've researched, it's like Google has said "Alright we screwed up there, Screw EVERYONE! We're going to fix it no matter who we stomp on to do it!"

    If this is smacking your traffic numbers in the toilet, look at this as a nudge to diversify. If you're doing things right, after you've re-established your traffic through alternate means, you'll be pleasantly surprised when things settle down and Google is showing you the love again.

    Mark this as the biggest "Google Dance" to date, but don't let this lesson fade too quickly.
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    • Profile picture of the author seeksucces
      Originally Posted by Premier Plugins View Post

      I think this is a turn-point in Google SEO. Those of you who are doing the "right" stuff will have little to worry about after the storm clears. You'll likely come back with better rankings than before.

      The latest big algorithm update, and the following demonstration, that showed the true power of "negative SEO" has to have Google in a hurricane of putting out fires. I'd expect the next month or two to be extremely volatile in terms of consistency. From everything I've researched, it's like Google has said "Alright we screwed up there, Screw EVERYONE! We're going to fix it no matter who we stomp on to do it!"

      If this is smacking your traffic numbers in the toilet, look at this as a nudge to diversify. If you're doing things right, after you've re-established your traffic through alternate means, you'll be pleasantly surprised when things settle down and Google is showing you the love again.

      Mark this as the biggest "Google Dance" to date, but don't let this lesson fade too quickly.
      If your content was built via natural means, you don't have anything to worry about at any update. It is best to anticipate these changes and only provide valuable content. If you are using any grey hat methods, you will most likely be faced with risk moving forward if Google discovers ways you are illegitimately getting rankings now. This being the case, it isn't even worth it to build your site on these grey hat methods. If you build your business off of these methods and then all of the sudden Google penalizes you once they figure it out, it isn't going to be worth it at all.
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      • Profile picture of the author thedog
        Originally Posted by seeksucces View Post

        If your content was built via natural means, you don't have anything to worry about at any update.
        But was is NATURAL?

        If I make a hubpage, with unique content, have 1 link back to my main site and 1 to another web 2.0, or youtube vid... is this natural?

        I'm not being funny, I have no idea if this is or isn't... I read on here that it isn't... and that Google sees this as a way to manipulate them.

        I've no problem following the rules... but they're just saying unique content and be creative?

        Ok.... so, unique content... do I link it to my main site, my 2nd tier sites... can I use anchor text?

        It's all just a bit vague, I just don't want to be wasting my time on something that doesn't work, or worse, hurts my sites.

        I can see a surge of WSO's on the way....
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        • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
          Originally Posted by thedog View Post

          It's all just a bit vague, I just don't want to be wasting my time on something that doesn't work, or worse, hurts my sites.

          I can see a surge of WSO's on the way....
          You don't need a WSO to tell you what to do.

          This is simple.

          You're making it too complicated.

          If you just go out and create great content and link it to relevant great content - there's no problem.

          If you make thin content that is blatent advertising or obviously just for the link then you may need to be concerned.

          Your little site with a few dozen links from articles and videos is not going to set off any alarms. If you pay for 10,000 wiki links, .edu links, blog comments, web2.0. profiles etc.. THAT WILL set off alarms. Maybe not right away but the very first time a Google human takes a look.

          If you're still confused about this stuff - just set up a Google Webmaster Tools account and take a look at your site with it.

          It will rapidly become OBVIOUS if your links are natural or not and whether Google has any other reason to think your site might be dodgy.

          There are already a LOT of WSO's claiming to be "post panda - google friendly" which are selling mass link building which will get your site slapped.

          People try to lump everything into one when it comes to SEO - there are no one-size fits all answers.

          If someone tells you they can guarantee your rankings will go up - they're full of crap (it all depends on your site, your niche etc... if you gave them a one-word keyword in a highly competitive niche for a website that is under a Google penalty - they will make zero impact to it).

          If someone tells you that they can sell you thousands of 'natural' links - they're full of crap. Unless those are hand written, hand posted and not mass generated or with poor irrelevant content then they'll get you slapped.


          This is good really as it brings the landscape back to basics - you need a solid marketing plan with good content and interaction with your market.

          Andy
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          • Profile picture of the author jessuccess
            ^ Good answer Andy. I still see lots of people pushing crazy link-building software and gimmicks. Automated this and that with dirty little tricks.... those are the things that google is pissed off about. They know WAY more about us than we think they do. Creepy google, gotta love them. If we only had a network of cool people in the internet marketing industry going to each of our sites every day, spending 10-15 minutes browsing and clicking (to please the bigG), then we'd be good to go.

            Let's work on being more legit in our business and not believe all of the hype about how all of these new awesome automated tools are going to make us millionaires. Google sells advertising, nearly everything they give us is free. Why should we try to cheat them out of making money.

            I'm NOT saying people here aren't being legit... but LOTs of people are not being legit then they are selling their ideas to internet marketers that think they are doing the right thing. Oh the ugly web we've weaved.
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      • Profile picture of the author Premier Plugins
        Originally Posted by seeksucces View Post

        If your content was built via natural means, you don't have anything to worry about at any update. It is best to anticipate these changes and only provide valuable content. If you are using any grey hat methods, you will most likely be faced with risk moving forward if Google discovers ways you are illegitimately getting rankings now. This being the case, it isn't even worth it to build your site on these grey hat methods. If you build your business off of these methods and then all of the sudden Google penalizes you once they figure it out, it isn't going to be worth it at all.
        Yes, this is precisely what I said in the post you quoted. So basically you said the exact same thing as the post you quoted. :confused:

        Originally Posted by Andyhenry

        That's because you're missing a huge element of the situation - It's virtually impossible to automate the determination of what is 'super high quality'.
        And this. Until search engine spiders can actually read (comprehend, understand, infer, etc), there will always be SEO tactics and ways to manipulate the rankings in your favor.
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  • Profile picture of the author s62731
    Google are just trying to kill off spam!

    The main people who need to worry are those warriors who sell back-link packages.

    It is clear spun content that does not make sense, or that carries a link irrelevant to the article are more than worthless, they are damaging.

    At the same time, social media links are worth more and more.

    - Links in tweets
    - Google +1 votes
    - Facebook likes and links in Facebook comments

    More of these and less crap.

    10 solid links are better than 1000 **** links. Always have been.
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  • Profile picture of the author marketinguk
    I think seo in terms of backlinking is dying and i have used this on many of my sites but now i have been penalised so in the long run it failed. I am focusing my attentions on building things properly from now on and i think everyone on this forum who have relied on backlinks should do the same.
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  • Profile picture of the author brettb
    Why are people complaining? Most folk here are gaming the system. Look at people like Pat Flynn. His security guard site has spammy links everywhere. That's the sort of site that Google needs to spank and spank hard.
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    • Profile picture of the author thedog
      Originally Posted by brettb View Post

      Why are people complaining? Most folk here are gaming the system. Look at people like Pat Flynn. His security guard site has spammy links everywhere. That's the sort of site that Google needs to spank and spank hard.
      Well, I just mentioned in another thread... for my main niche, and keyword, the number 1 spot, is a spammy looking adsense site.

      It has 5 adsense blocks, the limit is supposed to be 3.

      It's only got 300 words of content, and most of it's not even related to the keyword.
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  • Profile picture of the author ProAffiliate01
    I wonder what would happen if we just focused on providing good quality content that easily flowed from our pens or keyboard, if that would be best. I would like to just forget about SEO if I could.
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    • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
      Originally Posted by ProAffiliate01 View Post

      I wonder what would happen if we just focused on providing good quality content that easily flowed from our pens or keyboard, if that would be best. I would like to just forget about SEO if I could.
      Nothing would happen - no-one would find your site.

      No matter how great your content is - you still need some level of marketing activity to get people to it. If it's amazing and viral then that can build quickly once you get it started, but standing on a desert island alone with a sign for free gold nuggets doesn't get you any customers.
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  • Profile picture of the author seosuperman
    Yes year 2012 is not ending year of SEO.SEO is a long term needed tachnique to improve our business in the world...........
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  • Profile picture of the author inter123
    Majority of SEO companies are definately not going to go out of business any time soon.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rick Britton
    all seems good to me

    I have seen my rankings steadily rising this year without doing much...
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  • Profile picture of the author braincandy7
    What a ridiculous question or statement! "2012-end-search-engine-optimization"

    Search Engine Optimization is just that..........using the best techniques for the current situation. People will always be optimizing their sites for best results. The rules may and do change constantly. Adapt or die.

    The other alternative is to ignore google to a degree. Create good quality content that your readers/viewers will enjoy. If you do this rather than creating shallow spun rubbish build only to rank then google will like you anyway.

    They also have stated that they don't mind people optimizing their sites well for the google bots. They do want you to use proper meta tags, titles and headers. It helps them to identify your sites theme and content more quickly which help them.

    Optimized sites with good content will not really suffer. It's over optimized sites with rubbish content that will.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ravikanth
    And I was assuming it is just the END OF THE WORLD. OMG End of SEO is worse
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  • Profile picture of the author Charanjit
    How long does it take for the dust to settle after the change as some of my sites are jumping like mad?
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    • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
      Originally Posted by Charanjit View Post

      How long does it take for the dust to settle after the change as some of my sites are jumping like mad?
      it depends a lot on where your links come from and how many of those places are getting slapped by Google.
      Signature

      nothing to see here.

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  • Profile picture of the author WebPen
    Another end-of-SEO thread eh?

    So even though some people's sites are going down, that can't mean anyone's are going up.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ian Varnava
    Originally Posted by seoleaf View Post

    Anyone experiencing it?
    Yes, experiencing it big time.

    An improvement in rankings that is.

    And yes, 2012 is the end of SEO, 2013 will probably be the end of search engines altogether, and shortly after the end of the internets.
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  • Profile picture of the author Clara H
    Well if you believe all the Mayan calendar controversy, 2012 is the end of everything.
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  • Profile picture of the author BerlinSEM
    SEOs not dead, but the old spammy tactics are going to be much less effective and more likely to hurt you. Social will come eventually, its impact on rankings will grow. SEO will not go away, it just won't be about being no. 1 on a SERP anymore, it will define itself broader as a way to drive organic traffic to sites.
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  • Profile picture of the author Chri5123
    Do you mind? - I am trying to hold the sky up!

    That article does not say it is the end of SEO.

    I daresay it but as long as a search engine exists there will ALWAYS be SEO - it always needs to bring up results right.

    Just looks like they are taking a measure against "spammy" sites - if you have a site that uses keywords as in the example and articles that they show then yes you are in trouble.

    But that isn't SEO anyway...

    Chris
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  • Profile picture of the author savvybizbuilder
    It's not the end of SEO probably the end of black hat, its time to work on proper SEO method.
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  • Profile picture of the author upendraets
    there was my keyword on 4th SERP of google and now it is in 250 so, now i feel that 2012 is the End of SEO.
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    • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
      Originally Posted by upendraets View Post

      there was my keyword on 4th SERP of google and now it is in 250 so, now i feel that 2012 is the End of SEO.
      That's crazy talk.

      Look around - Google are not penalising EVERY site on the internet.

      Only sites with little/poor content or that have dubious linking or poor loading/structure.

      If your site was doing great and is now not doing great it's probably one of 2 things:

      1 - The sites that linked to you got penalised.
      2 - You got penalised because of bad links

      If you get rid of the bad links Google will remove the penalty.
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  • Profile picture of the author devshakya
    it is not the end of seo, its just google updates to improving his results.
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  • Profile picture of the author mosthost
    The average person would shed no tears if SEO died.
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  • Profile picture of the author Theeban
    Come on guys, SEO will end when the world is ending.. SEO is still growing industry, as it is one of the technology area, there are more frequent changes coming to market, but it never ends till internet is there, because if there is no search engines, people can't find sites easily on internet..... (from my view)
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    • Profile picture of the author zannix
      You know what's funny? Many of you say Google is penalizing "thin sites". I have plenty of thin sites. And their pages rank well regardless.

      That is because what is ranking in the SERPs is your page and not your entire website. If someone just wants to check the ferry schedule, do you think they'd like to read about the manufacturing process of ferries? No, they'd like to see the damn schedule. And leave immediately after. To catch the goddamn ferry.

      That sort of page doesn't require 500 words, 500 backlinks, nor does it require social signals or visitors to spend 10 minutes on it. Yet it can be of a great value to people browing the web for such information.

      Think about it, there are many web pages out there that are like this.

      Now would you say "F*ck 'em, nuke 'em!" if you were Google?
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  • Profile picture of the author Pyramid Linkers
    Its the end of crappy SEO. If you apply write good content, apply quality link building, and participate in social interaction you will be in good shape.
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  • Profile picture of the author BabyGotBackLinks
    Let's be honest with ourselves, if you're on this forum then most likely you are looking for ways to boost your rankings that google does not like.
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  • Profile picture of the author AnmolJ
    Its Just The Thing That Google Want Us To Do SEO As They Want!
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  • Profile picture of the author SeoKnightsInc
    2012 End of World !!!


    End of SEO (Why people post anything they dont even know about :rolleyes

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  • Profile picture of the author kimseo
    Rightnow the complete google search result is messed up. Here is the top 3 for "online"
    Free Online Games - Free Games Played Online
    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_and_offline
    Free Online Users - Online Users Counter


    i don't understand how google justify this search result
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  • Profile picture of the author madison75074
    Evidently it is not just the spammy sites getting hit. I have read numerous accounts on other forums of solid sites with all original content just disappearing. I really feel for some of the people that concentrated all their efforts on one site in order to insure quality only to be struck down by Google.
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    • Profile picture of the author seoleaf
      Originally Posted by madison75074 View Post

      Evidently it is not just the spammy sites getting hit. I have read numerous accounts on other forums of solid sites with all original content just disappearing. I really feel for some of the people that concentrated all their efforts on one site in order to insure quality only to be struck down by Google.

      my sites which was hit contains all quality contents, no keyword stuffing, 1 outgoing link to authority site eg wikipedia and all original. And it's a PR 5 site 30 pages (all original) with premium theme, and 2 adsense block. All clean and no crazy pop up. And it's "KAPUT" - non existence - FINISHED!

      The funny thing is that a new comer with 4 blog post - ugly theme - fill with infolinks advert, site registered on Feb - NO 1!!!!

      Nice one Goofu**gle
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  • Profile picture of the author hirithk
    hai
    it's not the end of seo, it's just ping pong game
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  • Profile picture of the author albertderio
    If you are follow Google guidelines then you can do easily seo for your wesites. Thanks...
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  • Profile picture of the author chensmith62
    Yes, SEO of any site is not a big problem. But 2012 is really the end of SEO.
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  • Profile picture of the author LeoTran
    Its a game, Google game. If dont know how to play it right, so lets play and earn experiences. If fail, we play again and play better. I think.
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  • Profile picture of the author ashish123
    hi,
    This is not true.SEO will never end it is forever.
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  • Profile picture of the author ashish123
    hi,
    This is Not True.SEO will never end .
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  • Profile picture of the author jammu1317
    Google is changing it's algorithm in that way so no one can understand but SEO will never end.
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  • Profile picture of the author radivoj
    SEO will still exist, Google won't destroy search results, they want more to people move to PPC paid traffic, we see how SEO will stand by end of 2012...
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    • Profile picture of the author cuppa
      Using SEO to appeal Google is not reliable any more. I am putting more focus on traffic buying methods for the rest of year 2012.
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  • Profile picture of the author ritmix
    Google dont like from seo and changing it's search system but finaly people will choose this again.
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  • Profile picture of the author dbwebdesignz
    No.

    Its the end of over optimization
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  • Profile picture of the author footfoot
    Too many websites on the internet now competing for their slice of the pie, It's just more competitive which makes it seem like seo is dead.
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  • Profile picture of the author Beardo
    The fact that Google doesn't want to share how it ranks pages is proof enough that SEO is not dead.
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  • Profile picture of the author studentmedia
    i think this bold statement just for the black hat seo tricks and the people who are doing just black hat seo to get their site at top should change their strategy.
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  • Profile picture of the author stuxbot
    I don't think so 2012 end of SEO but we have to work hard. I the coming year is end of black hat SEO.
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    • Profile picture of the author Jeremy123
      As long as there are search engines there will be seo,

      Bing and Yahoo hold pretty stable rankings, maybe people should make websites around Yahoo and Bing keyword search counts, they may have less searches but at least your rankings will be stable.

      Google is pretty hope and pray. :confused:
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  • According to my point of views seo can't never die because it is process of making site popular in the internet world.
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  • Profile picture of the author rizoalbert
    Its the beginning of the challengers.Google is being updated from 2002 and we are updating ourselves.We can bit it like the pasts.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mister Ozzy
    SEO will never end but misuse of SEO will, so no keyword stuffing, no manipulative link profiles, no extreme anchor texting, no article spinners etc.

    Type "Does Google consider SEO to be spam" in YouTube and Matt Cutts from Google will answer your exact question.
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  • Profile picture of the author seomilo
    SEO will die after Google dead

    Just keep updated yourself with Google changes then you see "SEO will never die".

    Cheers!
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  • Profile picture of the author IsaacWendt
    I feel that SEO isn't so much how to "SEO" anymore not that makes much sense but more how to market your website in more traditional ways, plus having knowledge of the web, links and social media.

    Just make sure every time you build a link or a page of content, ask yourself would you or your friends/family link to this and rave about it? if not don't build it. And if you're too lazy to build quality then your in for a **** of a ride.

    I just had to change the way I thought about building links, it sucked but I had to do it and I will be better off for it.
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  • Profile picture of the author mcatt
    Of it were the end what would designate one site from the next as far as placement? Traffic, content, age, etc...?
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