"SEO" is a bug in the Google Algorithm...(b*tch if you want but...)

22 replies
  • SEO
  • |
Most don't realize this but from a programming standpoint...SEO as it is exists & is taught is due to BUGS in the Google algorithm.

If the algorithm worked as intended there would be no point to SEO because people would get the perfect results to their search queries based on relevancy, quality, authority.

Google doesn't want people to force rankings period. They want people to naturally rank for what their site is legitimately relevant for in conjunction with it's true value based on quality & authority.

Google wants SEO to be so simple that there is no need for people to try or "do stuff" for SEO purposes.

The concept of creating sites around keywords for profit is a dying business model. The only seo Google really wants from people is relevancy and anything that will help real people find answers for whatever they are looking for.

Think about the whole concept of profiting from relevant keywords as a stand alone business model (traffic brokering). It make no sense. By it's nature the business model's primary focus is exploiting flaws in the search engines. It is not user centric. There is no real customer, service or product.

(don't say your product is content, if that was the case your focus would be a on creating great content....not finding keywords and THEN creating content around your keywords...)

If you go about building websites by finding keywords in niches your wrong in Google's eyes. It's a done deal.

The long term focus Google wants from businesses and marketers is brand & micro brand awareness campaigns. They want people who deserve authority to create authority and build relevancy on their sites/platforms for their topic....

P.S. - You can still focus on old style SEO, keyword based marketing, etc because it does work to some extent for now & the next few years. But honestly those days are numbered. Google is always working toward removing the bug known as SEO and they will get there at some point.

~Build brands and businesses not websites...
#algorithmbtch #bug #google #seo
  • Profile picture of the author K1
    CPC is down in the latest quarter, they've been getting more people to click on ads over the last several years with their quality score algo for adwords.So ding the sites doing SEO cuz they're paying for SEO anyways, people will likely flock to adwords when that happens.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6146610].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    Really, you say keywords are a dying business model?

    Do you think that the billions of keywords promoted on Adwords is a dying business model?

    Keywords pay the bills, If you don't believe me go check Googles latest quarterly earnings report.

    True, quality content is key for return traffic, but building content on the wrong things will have you ranking #1 on a keyword that very few people will ever search for.

    You can build a brand & target keywords at the same time, it's been going on for years & will continue to happen years from now.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6146663].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author JSProjects
      Originally Posted by yukon View Post

      Really, you say keywords are a dying business model?

      Do you think that the billions of keywords promoted on Adwords is a dying business model?

      Keywords pay the bills, If you don't believe me go check Googles latest quarterly earnings report.

      True, quality content is key for return traffic, but building content on the wrong things will have you ranking #1 on a keyword that very few people will ever search for.

      You can build a brand & target keywords at the same time, it's been going on for years & will continue to happen years from now.
      Quoted for truth.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6146670].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Daniel Deegan
      Originally Posted by yukon View Post

      Really, you say keywords are a dying business model?

      Do you think that the billions of keywords promoted on Adwords is a dying business model?

      Keywords pay the bills, If you don't believe me go check Googles latest quarterly earnings report.

      True, quality content is key for return traffic, but building content on the wrong things will have you ranking #1 on a keyword that very few people will ever search for.

      You can build a brand & target keywords at the same time, it's been going on for years & will continue to happen years from now.
      I was typing up a post about keywords when you posted this. Indeed keywords have a role but it aint in SEO outside of basic relevancy usage
      Signature

      ****************************************
      Spy & Track Winning Facebook Ads

      Spy & Track
      Winning Google Content Network Ads
      Spy & Track Winning Bing & Google PPC Search Ads
      â„¢ACP - Click Here For Details
      ****************************************

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6146691].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author yukon
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Daniel Deegan View Post

        I was typing up a post about keywords when you posted this. Indeed keywords have a role but it aint in SEO outside of basic relevancy usage
        You ever wonder why Google has <bold> text in the SERPs while doing a search? Both Organic & PPC are built on keywords (relevancy & exact match).

        I worked in machine programming for 9 years, there is no human on this Earth that can write a program 100% bug free (impossible). I don't agree that Googles algo. allows SEO because it has bugs, they allow SEO for a variety of reasons, but the main reason that Google allows SEO to happen is, Google is NOTHING without the free content (SERPs) they scrape from the net.

        Google doesn't have much choice for allowing SEO, they can't charge a fee for their organic SERPs (they don't own the rights to the content they display in the SERPs), heck nobody would use it, the general public expects the SERPs content to be free. Free SERP content is the traffic lure, that's what delivers billions & billions of free traffic each year & places that traffic directly in front of Adwords advertisements.

        Google doesn't care about you, me, or anyone else, they care about keeping the general public returning to the SERPs & hopefully clicking an Adwords Ad. I'm not supporting Google & I'm also not bashing Google, it is what it is, a business.

        Before anyone shouts "D@mn Google & their Adwords", grow up, it's a business model that obviously works. It's business, it's not personal.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6147951].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Daniel Deegan
          Originally Posted by yukon View Post

          Google doesn't care about you, me, or anyone else, they care about keeping the general public returning to the SERPs & hopefully clicking an Adwords Ad. I'm not supporting Google & I'm also not bashing Google, it is what it is, a business.

          Before anyone shouts "D@mn Google & their Adwords", grow up, it's a business model that obviously works. It's business, it's not personal.

          Dude this is my point. Googles goal is to give the general public the best experience possible. When you try to manipulate Google to rank your site when your not a true authority or brand but someone just looking to exploit keyword opportunities and algorithmic bugs your just asking to get burned in the long run.
          Signature

          ****************************************
          Spy & Track Winning Facebook Ads

          Spy & Track
          Winning Google Content Network Ads
          Spy & Track Winning Bing & Google PPC Search Ads
          â„¢ACP - Click Here For Details
          ****************************************

          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6148245].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Daniel Deegan
    Think about that for a second...in one sense you can say that greedy Google just wants people to start buying into adwords. Yes they do. But adwords aint what it use to be. It's now geared more toward real businesses and brands. (meaning not many quick hit affiliates, etc.)

    Keyword marketing makes sense from a PPC stand point. Keywords help businesses connect relevant products and services to the people searching for them. To Google it makes more sense for a real business to just pay for PPC/Ads then pay for SEO....

    Why?..because that's how it works in all other mediums and channels for the most part and thats what Google wants. Businesses off-line buy advertising and paid marketing in some form. Free advertising comes from publicity and word of mouth. That's what Google is trying to model.

    SEO as it is today was never suppose to be an industry or part of a business model. On-line brand optimization & campaign management is what they had in mind. But getting to that point has and will take time. But it will happen for sure.
    Signature

    ****************************************
    Spy & Track Winning Facebook Ads

    Spy & Track
    Winning Google Content Network Ads
    Spy & Track Winning Bing & Google PPC Search Ads
    â„¢ACP - Click Here For Details
    ****************************************

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6146684].message }}
  • Well, there are many high quality sites, but only 10 spots on Google´s first page. If nobody does SEO who or what decides who is the most beautiful in town?

    When there is something everybody wants to have, but not everybody can have, then there is going to be a fight. So far it´s who can make the most/best backlinks. What kind of fight will be there without SEO. How can you make money without building a shop/affiliate site without researching keywords and find the best places to sell? Or shouldn´t anyone want to make money at all? Should you build your store in the desert and believe in "Build it and they will come"? That´s what they tell us, don´t do any SEO at all.

    Are the happy ones that replaced the penalized ones, not doing any SEO at all? Didn´t they optimize their pages and also made links to manipulate the search results? That´s the game and everybody is doing it. Large companies may have whole SEO departments.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6146946].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Daniel Deegan
      Originally Posted by affiliated survivor View Post

      Well, there are many high quality sites, but only 10 spots on Google´s first page. If nobody does SEO who or what decides who is the most beautiful in town?

      When there is something everybody wants to have, but not everybody can have, then there is going to be a fight. So far it´s who can make the most/best backlinks. What kind of fight will be there without SEO. How can you make money without building a shop/affiliate site without researching keywords and find the best places to sell? Or shouldn´t anyone want to make money at all? Should you build your store in the desert and believe in "Build it and they will come"? That´s what they tell us, don´t do any SEO at all.

      Are the happy ones that replaced the penalized ones, not doing any SEO at all? Didn´t they optimize their pages and also made links to manipulate the search results? That´s the game and everybody is doing it. Large companies may have whole SEO departments.
      Here's the thing, everyone wants the top spots for a keyword. That's how most people do SEO. Google wants the best and most relevant site for a keyword to be in top spots.

      Those first page listings are prime real estate. Just like in the off-line world only truly successful or major brands are located in the best and most high traffic areas. That is exactly what Google wants to achieve.

      They want the first page listing of every commercially viable keyword to be filled with the most relevant and valuable major and micro brands. It's not good news for the little guy or people who don't want to become a real authority or brand/micro brand.

      The writing is on the wall. It's pretty straight forward what they are trying to do. The only thing you need to do if you want to focus on long term SEO is ask 1 question...

      Is this action or optimization working to help Google's goal of providing the best results & user experience possible?
      Signature

      ****************************************
      Spy & Track Winning Facebook Ads

      Spy & Track
      Winning Google Content Network Ads
      Spy & Track Winning Bing & Google PPC Search Ads
      â„¢ACP - Click Here For Details
      ****************************************

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6147256].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author dp40oz
    Originally Posted by Daniel Deegan View Post

    Most don't realize this but from a programming standpoint...SEO as it is exists & is taught is due to BUGS in the Google algorithm.

    If the algorithm worked as intended there would be no point to SEO because people would get the perfect results to their search queries based on relevancy, quality, authority.

    Google doesn't want people to force rankings period. They want people to naturally rank for what their site is legitimately relevant for in conjunction with it's true value based on quality & authority.

    Google wants SEO to be so simple that there is no need for people to try or "do stuff" for SEO purposes.

    The concept of creating sites around keywords for profit is a dying business model. The only seo Google really wants from people is relevancy and anything that will help real people find answers for whatever they are looking for.

    Think about the whole concept of profiting from relevant keywords as a stand alone business model (traffic brokering). It make no sense. By it's nature the business model's primary focus is exploiting flaws in the search engines. It is not user centric. There is no real customer, service or product.

    (don't say your product is content, if that was the case your focus would be a on creating great content....not finding keywords and THEN creating content around your keywords...)

    If you go about building websites by finding keywords in niches your wrong in Google's eyes. It's a done deal.

    The long term focus Google wants from businesses and marketers is brand & micro brand awareness campaigns. They want people who deserve authority to create authority and build relevancy on their sites/platforms for their topic....

    P.S. - You can still focus on old style SEO, keyword based marketing, etc because it does work to some extent for now & the next few years. But honestly those days are numbered. Google is always working toward removing the bug known as SEO and they will get there at some point.

    ~Build brands and businesses not websites...
    The only way to decide the proper result is by having indicators telling the algorithm what the proper result is. These indicators will forever be dependent on some percentage of human interaction (backlinks, discussion, popularity, likes ect..) so as long as there is search then people will have some control over rankings.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6146973].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Daniel Deegan
      Originally Posted by dp40oz View Post

      The only way to decide the proper result is by having indicators telling the algorithm what the proper result is. These indicators will forever be dependent on some percentage of human interaction (backlinks, discussion, popularity, likes ect..) so as long as there is search then people will have some control over rankings.
      I agree, there will always be indicators that will be in the site owners control which means some people will try and figure out ways to optimize. But Googles goal is to make site owner optimization a non factor beyond some very basic relevancy optimizations and user experience metrics. Any variable that can be easily manipulated via automation is a bug and will be squashed over time.
      Signature

      ****************************************
      Spy & Track Winning Facebook Ads

      Spy & Track
      Winning Google Content Network Ads
      Spy & Track Winning Bing & Google PPC Search Ads
      â„¢ACP - Click Here For Details
      ****************************************

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6147164].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
    Originally Posted by Daniel Deegan View Post


    If the algorithm worked as intended there would be no point to SEO because people would get the perfect results to their search queries based on relevancy, quality, authority.
    umm... Just one question Daniel - how do sites or pages get authority?

    Google is always working toward removing the bug known as SEO and they will get there at some point.
    IF you can answer the question above without SEO playing any part whatsoever then you have a point but if you can't or it can be shown that SEO can play a part in gaining authority then you will be shown to be blowing a whole lot of hot air.
    Signature

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6147107].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Daniel Deegan
      Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

      umm... Just one question Daniel - how do sites or pages get authority?



      IF you can answer the question above without SEO playing any part whatsoever then you have a point but if you can't or it can be shown that SEO can play a part in gaining authority then you will be shown to be blowing a whole lot of hot air.
      Hey Mike, if you read my original post I specifically say SEO as people teach it today. SEO will always exist but it will mean more of what it was intended to.

      Search engine optimization meaning your optimizing in a way that helps the search engines create a good user experience and deliver the best results possible for a search term.

      The way people do SEO now is not to help Google and the end user. Most people do SEO to help themselves and their own site rank higher or to get an edge over the competition. That works against Google's goals.
      Signature

      ****************************************
      Spy & Track Winning Facebook Ads

      Spy & Track
      Winning Google Content Network Ads
      Spy & Track Winning Bing & Google PPC Search Ads
      â„¢ACP - Click Here For Details
      ****************************************

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6147202].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
        Originally Posted by Daniel Deegan View Post

        Hey Mike, if you read my original post I specifically say SEO as people teach it today. SEO will always exist but it will mean more of what it was intended to.
        You are fudging. I quoted what I was referring to verbatim

        If the algorithm worked as intended there would be no point to SEO because people would get the perfect results to their search queries based on relevancy, quality, authority.
        By your own admission SEOs are designed to operate by signals of authority. its not a bug if SEO accomodates that.

        The way people do SEO now is not to help Google and the end user. Most people do SEO to help themselves and their own site rank higher or to get an edge over the competition. That works against Google's goals.
        SEO is done many different ways by different people right now. To answer the question that you are dodging because it blows up your point - Sites and pages get authority from links. People do SEO now by promoting their sites to people who can recommend their site by links. If tomorrow it becomes social signals no different just a different kind of "link". You can call it manipulating but companies call it promoting their business.

        Recommendations from human beings is a central component of ALL Search engines not a bug. As long as that is the case companies will

        contact the people for recommendations "unnaturally"
        buy recommendations
        leverage their others sites and resources to get those recommendations.


        SEO TODAY is about all those things. You ARE blowing smoke.
        Signature

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6147765].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Daniel Deegan
          Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

          You are fudging. I quoted what I was referring to verbatim



          By your own admission SEOs are designed to operate by signals of authority. its not a bug if SEO accomodates that.



          SEO is done many different ways by different people right now. To answer the question that you are dodging because it blows up your point - Sites and pages get authority from links. People do SEO now by promoting their sites to people who can recommend their site by links. If tomorrow it becomes social signals no different just a different kind of "link". You can call it manipulating but companies call it promoting their business.

          Recommendations from human beings is a central component of ALL Search engines not a bug. As long as that is the case companies will

          contact the people for recommendations "unnaturally"
          buy recommendations
          leverage their others sites and resources to get those recommendations.


          SEO TODAY is about all those things. You ARE blowing smoke.
          You seem to be missing a big chunk of what I'm saying.Of course there will always be some form of SEO. Just as you pointed out the increased weight being given to social signals. But there is a big difference from todays SEO and the vision Google has for SEO.

          My entire point is that you should base your SEO strategy on the goals & vision Google has for it's primary product, which is it's search engine. Not some bugs in a algorithm.

          Think about Googles vision long term instead of just focusing on what works now.

          To continue on with your example of getting a recommendation or link from other sites either through buying it or other means. If you have a reputable site that Google sees as an authority are you going to link out to some dodgy site because they paid you good money?

          Sure their will be manipulation, social circles, etc. But the barrier to entry is going to be having a quality site or brand to begin with since who you associate with and who associates with you matters. Intentionally promoting a site or brand is not a bad thing in it self.

          Promoting a site, thats just built around a collection of keywords with the intent to rank those keywords is not the type of site Google wants in the top 10 long term.

          So many people have pushed SEO as a business model and strategy when it's just a tactic within a website or brand promotional strategy.

          I hope lots of newer folk read this whole thread and really think about all the arguments and point of views in this thread as it might help them gain some clarity.
          Signature

          ****************************************
          Spy & Track Winning Facebook Ads

          Spy & Track
          Winning Google Content Network Ads
          Spy & Track Winning Bing & Google PPC Search Ads
          â„¢ACP - Click Here For Details
          ****************************************

          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6148222].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
            Originally Posted by Daniel Deegan View Post

            My entire point is that you should base your SEO strategy on the goals & vision Google has for it's primary product, which is it's search engine. Not some bugs in a algorithm.
            A) you have not established that there are any bugs as you relate them to SEO. Its just talk really.
            B) Google's vision is Google's vision. My job is to promote MY business not Googles.

            Think about Googles vision long term instead of just focusing on what works now.
            You suffer in your arguments from too many unfounded assumptions. You assume wrongfully that I or SEO today is not focused long term because you are painting every SEO with the same brush. I don't do anything for the short term. I give content because its a solid long term strategy both for ranking and for my customers sites in terms of return traffic. Its what works but SEO also works. I can show you site after site ranking that has been SEOed by SEOs providing great content AND promoting their sites to other webmaster to get links. You assume again its one or the other for you to claim that all of SEO is a bug. Its totally false.

            Promoting a site, thats just built around a collection of keywords with the intent to rank those keywords is not the type of site Google wants in the top 10 long term.
            And? I don't have any qualms with your ideas about MFAs but somehow against all that is real you are co-opting the MFA mentality into some general statements about SEO which have nothing rooted and grounded in MFAs.

            Clarity is what you are not giving by telling newbies the SEO in general is a bug in the algo and by telling them that their pages need not give consideration to what people search for which is in fact where keywords come from. SO of course if I want to get traffic to my site from people searching for my keywords. Theres nothing wrong with that and no bug is involved. Its a matter of balance.
            Signature

            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6148426].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author Daniel Deegan
              Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

              A)
              Clarity is what you are not giving by telling newbies the SEO in general is a bug in the algo and by telling them that their pages need not give consideration to what people search for which is in fact where keywords come from. SO of course if I want to get traffic to my site from people searching for my keywords. Theres nothing wrong with that and no bug is involved. Its a matter of balance.
              Mike what I'm telling newbies is to focus only on SEO that is beneficial to Googles vision. Which in most cases is very basic SEO and value or brand awareness driven promotions.

              Sure they can focus on whats good for them as you said you do. But if you want to be part of Googles bussiness model then you should be trying to work with them not take advantage of temporary flaws or gaps in their system.

              Google is trying to make it clear what they want from websites and web masters, but their is a disconnect from what they want and how their algorithm performs. There goal with every update is to make that disconnect smaller and smaller.

              Those who focus on the current flaws in the ranking system are playing a losing game long term. Look how many posts from people there are about how they feel like the lost all this hard work, etc.

              Why? Cause odds are they listened to and followed the wrong philosophy and advice. To many SEO's teach the wrong mindset & philosohpy in my oppinon which is just doing newer people a disservice.

              As I said, there is nothing wrong with promoting your site or business but if you have the wrong strategy or driving force behind your promotions then you are doing something that is going to probably come and bite you on the ass.

              SEO is a tactic that should be dictated by a real business strategy or driving force. The problem is so many people use SEO as their strategy or driving force. That is a problem and a crucial mistake for anyone serious about business. Unless your in the business of selling or teaching SEO of course.

              Btw, I appreciate the discussion and love a good debate so I thank you for that Mike and everyone else. I'm not trying to prove anything as fact. I'm trying to stimulate and expand my own mind and those reading and participating in this thread. I try and check my ego at the door when I post so I can give and get the most value from the forum.
              Signature

              ****************************************
              Spy & Track Winning Facebook Ads

              Spy & Track
              Winning Google Content Network Ads
              Spy & Track Winning Bing & Google PPC Search Ads
              â„¢ACP - Click Here For Details
              ****************************************

              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6150363].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                Originally Posted by Daniel Deegan View Post

                Sure they can focus on whats good for them as you said you do. But if you want to be part of Googles bussiness model then you should be trying to work with them not take advantage of temporary flaws or gaps in their system.
                Daniel you are back pedalling because your point was no good to begin with. The whole premise in this thread was that SEO itself is a bug. Jut come clean. The thesis of the thread is a crock.

                Those who focus on the current flaws in the ranking system are playing a losing game long term. Look how many posts from people there are about how they feel like the lost all this hard work, etc.
                What hard work? appealing to the masses within IM on this board hardly makes any point about SEO overall. Truth? You want the truth? Most people crying here didn't lose all their hard work because they didn't put in any. This board has for years favored spinning, push button link building and Fiverr like services. All the whining now essentially is because Oh no Google finally decided to crack down on what it ALWAYS said it would crack down on.

                Now here is the rub - Step outside of places like WF and TP and bhatworld and most SEOs wouldn't touch those techniques with ten feet poles. So exactly how does Google cracking down on spun content, stupidly sent thousands of trashy links with the same anchor text, discounting bought links on link farms prove anything about SEO in general. Hint- it doesn't

                To many SEO's teach the wrong mindset & philosohpy in my oppinon which is just doing newer people a disservice.
                You are buried deep in your IM thinking of SEO. "Many SEOs" are found in places like SEOmoz, searchengineland etc and they have no such wrong mindset. Like I said you are over generalizing

                SEO is a tactic that should be dictated by a real business strategy or driving force. The problem is so many people use SEO as their strategy or driving force. That is a problem and a crucial mistake for anyone serious about business. Unless your in the business of selling or teaching SEO of course.
                WHy would it change if you were in the business of teaching SEO? There goes your mass assumption machine going again. It never stops. Seomoz for example teaches SEO and emphasizes a strong business model with a real business strategy. There is not a Seo I know that teaches otherwise but here you are making massive generalizations about the state of SEO based on your IM experience. SHeesh you would think that there are not thousands of mid sized businesses, corporations even smaller businesses with great business modals that use SEO

                If your point is that people are practicing the wrong kind of SEo then state that in the thread title not some awful bogus nonsense about SEO being a bug in and of itself. Theres nothing you are clearing up. such titles and Ops just muddy the water

                I'm not trying to prove anything as fact. I'm trying to stimulate and expand my own mind and those reading and participating in this thread. I try and check my ego at the door when I post so I can give and get the most value from the forum.
                I'm sorry but the ego is all over this thread from the very title where you tell people SEO is a bug and imply that anyone that disagrees can "b*tch if you want". So lets not play games here you very much have been stating things as fact (that aren't) and that ego needs a double check at the door. I like a good debate too but I value honesty way higher.

                Sorry if you think I am coming down hard on you but frankly my cup runneth over with these , SEO is dead, SEO is a bug, if you build it they will come, I'm quitting SEO threads. They just are pathetic to me because what they are really saying is they don't know what SEO is outside of a very limited perspective.
                Signature

                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6182268].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Bigfoot1
    Great post.

    Long term, the industry must start focusing on offering value instead of trying to make quick cash.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6147270].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author GeorgR.
    Most don't realize this but from a programming standpoint...SEO as it is exists & is taught is due to BUGS in the Google algorithm.

    If the algorithm worked as intended there would be no point to SEO because people would get the perfect results to their search queries based on relevancy, quality, authority.

    Google doesn't want people to force rankings period. They want people to naturally rank for what their site is legitimately relevant for in conjunction with it's true value based on quality & authority.
    I have to agree and disagree at the same time. Let me explain.

    If it were the case, if the algorithm "worked" as we are told it is allegedly supposed to work, it would be the greatest thing ever.

    It would be that we all "just" need to make great sites with great content, and do not EVER anymore to care about rankings, backlinks etc.

    Give me a day, i make you a great site. Give me some days or weeks...i fill the site with great and helpful content. The problem: In the past, the subsequent link building and the SEO made the MAJORITY of the work. Without any links or SEO your site is not worth **** since no one will know it even exists.

    Do you think we "like" to spend the biggest part on a site to actually rank it? 20% of actual work to create a site, the remaining 80% attempts to give the site rankings?

    You know, if it was true, any SEO and webmaster would be the luckiest man on Earth, because it would mean from now on, we can ignore all the link building and SEO and focus on simply making sites which "rank by themselves using magic"?

    Here is the problem: It won't happen!

    Because it's not a "bug" in Google's algorithm, it's simply how Google works, the simple fact that Google lists sites in a sequential/hierarchical order 1. 2. 3. - 10. etc. and beyond. According to Google's fundamentally flawed philosophy, eg. there can not be several sites which are on-par in terms of value since ONE site will always be either below or above one other.

    This goes so far that the vast majority of traffic to sites is almost exclusively happening for sites which are listed as 1., 2. or 3. in Google -with all the zillion other sites which are not in the "top" #3 barely getting any traffic whatsoever. Flawed? You bet!

    Google can tell us what they want - there is ALWAYS factors which will influence the rankings, and there is reason to assume there will always be ways to influence and manipulate those factors.

    I would be first person here jumping up and down happily if i was convinced that "the age of SEO" is over, because this would actually save me a *******load of time. No backlinks needed anymore, no article submissions, no bookmarks, no outsourcing etc. What a wonderful world that would be! You just make a nice site and two weeks later you are on-top with other high quality sites.

    But: I am not buying this in the slightest.

    Do you really believe this?

    If the algorithm worked as intended
    The intention was and still is that according to Google, even with BILLIONS of web sites today, only 10 can be listed on the first page. Do you think that from, say, 5 Million of "Acne" sites, 4.999.990 are crap and only 10 are worthy to be on the first page (where only 1., 2., 3. get the most of the traffic?)

    It doesn't need a high IQ to see that the whole system is flawed, somehow, no matter how many pandas, penguins, sheeps or flamingos they will let loose in the future. And as long as Google retains the idiocy to "rank" sites in a hierarchical way, as long there will be bugs and unfairness and unfair advantages...which should be a logical thing because it is hardly normal that from millions of sites only a select few getting all the traffic. The flaw and the "bug" sits much, much deeper...it sits at the core of how Google functions as a search engine.
    Signature
    *** Affiliate Site Quick --> The Fastest & Easiest Way to Make Affiliate Sites!<--
    -> VISIT www.1UP-SEO.com *** <- Internet Marketing, SEO Tips, Reviews & More!! ***
    *** HIGH QUALITY CONTENT CREATION +++ Manual Article Spinning (Thread Here) ***
    Content Creation, Blogging, Articles, Converting Sales Copy, Reviews, Ebooks, Rewrites
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6147943].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Daniel Deegan
      Originally Posted by GeorgR. View Post

      I have to agree and disagree at the same time. Let me explain.

      If it were the case, if the algorithm "worked" as we are told it is allegedly supposed to work, it would be the greatest thing ever.

      It would be that we all "just" need to make great sites with great content, and do not EVER anymore to care about rankings, backlinks etc.

      Give me a day, i make you a great site. Give me some days or weeks...i fill the site with great and helpful content. The problem: In the past, the subsequent link building and the SEO made the MAJORITY of the work. Without any links or SEO your site is not worth **** since no one will know it even exists.

      Do you think we "like" to spend the biggest part on a site to actually rank it? 20% of actual work to create a site, the remaining 80% attempts to give the site rankings?

      You know, if it was true, any SEO and webmaster would be the luckiest man on Earth, because it would mean from now on, we can ignore all the link building and SEO and focus on simply making sites which "rank by themselves using magic"?

      Here is the problem: It won't happen!

      Because it's not a "bug" in Google's algorithm, it's simply how Google works, the simple fact that Google lists sites in a sequential/hierarchical order 1. 2. 3. - 10. etc. and beyond. According to Google's fundamentally flawed philosophy, eg. there can not be several sites which are on-par in terms of value since ONE site will always be either below or above one other.

      This goes so far that the vast majority of traffic to sites is almost exclusively happening for sites which are listed as 1., 2. or 3. in Google -with all the zillion other sites which are not in the "top" #3 barely getting any traffic whatsoever. Flawed? You bet!

      Google can tell us what they want - there is ALWAYS factors which will influence the rankings, and there is reason to assume there will always be ways to influence and manipulate those factors.

      I would be first person here jumping up and down happily if i was convinced that "the age of SEO" is over, because this would actually save me a *******load of time. No backlinks needed anymore, no article submissions, no bookmarks, no outsourcing etc. What a wonderful world that would be! You just make a nice site and two weeks later you are on-top with other high quality sites.

      But: I am not buying this in the slightest.

      Do you really believe this?

      The intention was and still is that according to Google, even with BILLIONS of web sites today, only 10 can be listed on the first page. Do you think that from, say, 5 Million of "Acne" sites, 4.999.990 are crap and only 10 are worthy to be on the first page (where only 1., 2., 3. get the most of the traffic?)

      It doesn't need a high IQ to see that the whole system is flawed, somehow, no matter how many pandas, penguins, sheeps or flamingos they will let loose in the future. And as long as Google retains the idiocy to "rank" sites in a hierarchical way, as long there will be bugs and unfairness and unfair advantages...which should be a logical thing because it is hardly normal that from millions of sites only a select few getting all the traffic. The flaw and the "bug" sits much, much deeper...it sits at the core of how Google functions as a search engine.
      Great post!

      I hear ya. And your indeed right in many ways. But when you keep Google's vision and goal in mind you can see the direction they are heading and what they are working toward very clearly. It's obviously not going to be a smooth ride but you want to be focus your efforts not so much on whats working now in the serps as much as what makes sens long term for the serps.

      Ideally you want to focus on methods where both ideologies line up. Meaning what your doing to promote your site fits with Googles vision. If you focus just on whats currently working then your building on sand and asking to get burned.

      Google learns from its mistakes. It then is able to tell who took advantage of it's bugs. It then works toward correcting those bugs and at the same time tries to slap those who took advantage of the bugs.

      That is there general philosophy and pattern they follow. The choice is yours. You can focus on the now and keep churning sites instead of building a business, unless that is your business...
      Signature

      ****************************************
      Spy & Track Winning Facebook Ads

      Spy & Track
      Winning Google Content Network Ads
      Spy & Track Winning Bing & Google PPC Search Ads
      â„¢ACP - Click Here For Details
      ****************************************

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6148286].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Peter ONeill
    Originally Posted by Daniel Deegan View Post

    Most don't realize this but from a programming standpoint...SEO as it is exists & is taught is due to BUGS in the Google algorithm.

    If the algorithm worked as intended there would be no point to SEO because people would get the perfect results to their search queries based on relevancy, quality, authority.

    Google doesn't want people to force rankings period. They want people to naturally rank for what their site is legitimately relevant for in conjunction with it's true value based on quality & authority.

    Google wants SEO to be so simple that there is no need for people to try or "do stuff" for SEO purposes.

    The concept of creating sites around keywords for profit is a dying business model. The only seo Google really wants from people is relevancy and anything that will help real people find answers for whatever they are looking for.

    Think about the whole concept of profiting from relevant keywords as a stand alone business model (traffic brokering). It make no sense. By it's nature the business model's primary focus is exploiting flaws in the search engines. It is not user centric. There is no real customer, service or product.

    (don't say your product is content, if that was the case your focus would be a on creating great content....not finding keywords and THEN creating content around your keywords...)

    If you go about building websites by finding keywords in niches your wrong in Google's eyes. It's a done deal.

    The long term focus Google wants from businesses and marketers is brand & micro brand awareness campaigns. They want people who deserve authority to create authority and build relevancy on their sites/platforms for their topic....

    P.S. - You can still focus on old style SEO, keyword based marketing, etc because it does work to some extent for now & the next few years. But honestly those days are numbered. Google is always working toward removing the bug known as SEO and they will get there at some point.

    ~Build brands and businesses not websites...
    Nice post Daniel.

    I agree with what you have said here and sadly I new that as I read it that a large amount of the replies that come after it would venomusly disagree with you. Sad.

    The best way to build good search rankings is to have a real business that offers real value and does real marketing.

    Cheers Peter
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6731758].message }}

Trending Topics