Hiring VA is 100x better than buying backlinking/SEO services

by Adie
42 replies
  • SEO
  • |
Blog mass commenting, forum mass posting, and other services that involves blasting, mass submissions, and other multiple postings at a time are useless.

Before, I was lazy. I wanted my sites to be seen on top without breaking a sweat - but I failed terribly.. One of the sites I wanted to rank desperately was gone into oblivion when Google penalized it and never recovered - until I deleted the site totally and let the domain sit in blank content for 8 months. I purchased most of the cheap blasting services and implemented to that site but gained nothing. I think there were around 3,000 edu backlinks, thousands of blog comments, and hundreds of forum posts..plus dozens of wiki pages.. all thrown into trash can...

Earlier this year I decided to try again as the domain is very important to me and the product associated with that domain is really impressive and best seller. I posted 5 unique articles and started to build backlinks manually. I posted 5 articles in some popular article directories and submitted all pages to social bookmarks (around 50) all manually. I submitted the site to rss directories all manually. Some forum signatures... I never bought any back linking package again. The site started to climb on google page. It's domain keyword has more than 100K exact result and competition is extremely high. In short, after the latest PR update, it got PR 2, and now on 5th position at the first selling a minimum of 6 daily since it appeared on 1st page last week.

I started blog commenting again. I searched for niche-related blogs and I found fewer than 20 within the. All of those blogs are very strict in allowing blog comments but I tried. I posted comments on old pages with at least PR3 in all blogs within the day. I checked my traffic stat after 2 days and found out that all blog admins visited my site. All of them approved my comment except that one who haven't check my link yet (I think the admin haven't logged-in to his blog yet)

After comments were approved, I am getting some traffic and even comments from other users....

I am not talking against other people's business that sells these kind of services. I am just talking about the truth and it's up to other members to follow what they think are effective..... I will never waste a single cent again to those blasters and instead, I'll continue hiring VAs to do everything manually for me....
#100x #backlinking or seo #buying #hiring #services
  • Profile picture of the author Adie
    I sent you a PM where you can get some hard working people.
    Anyway, I don't mind doing everything manually as ranking right now is a battle of hard work. before, it was a battle of software...
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  • Profile picture of the author fedor50
    Quality post. Mass spammy links are not the key to ranking well in the days of Panda and Penguin. Manual Link Building is the key to success nowadays
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    • Profile picture of the author linkdestiny
      Originally Posted by fedor50 View Post

      Quality post. Mass spammy links are not the key to ranking well in the days of Panda and Penguin. Manual Link Building is the key to success nowadays
      I disagree I have ranked plenty of website with automated software.
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      • Profile picture of the author Adie
        Originally Posted by linkdestiny View Post

        I disagree I have ranked plenty of website with automated software.
        When was that? So do you recommend to use these software?
        Not in my wildest dreams....
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        • Profile picture of the author linkdestiny
          Originally Posted by Adie View Post

          When was that? So do you recommend to use these software?
          Not in my wildest dreams....
          I have been doing linkwheels and linkpyramids before and after Panda and Penguin....it takes alot of things to beat them...and I am not saying that manual backlinking is a bad thing...It is not but I am saying that software backlinks are not useless and dead. You have to be versatile with your link building, keywords, and URL you use to backlink.
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        • Profile picture of the author EdwardDennis
          Originally Posted by Adie View Post

          When was that? So do you recommend to use these software?
          Not in my wildest dreams....
          Guess your dream is not wild enough then.

          Don't blame the tool, blame the user.
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  • Profile picture of the author nik0
    Banned
    Good luck finding a VA that can write solid English in case you want to use him to e-mail webmasters, leave forumposts or comments at relevant blogs. It will never get approved.
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    • Finding quality VAs takes time and you have to know where to look. Have you tried bestjobs.ph or onlinejobs.ph? And you also have to remember that VAs are employees. You have to give them specific instructions, motivate them, encourage them, challenge them, and pay them well if you want them to do their best.
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  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    Creating content/links/sites is easier than babysitting a VA.
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    • Profile picture of the author nik0
      Banned
      Originally Posted by yukon View Post

      Creating content/links/sites is easier than babysitting a VA.
      Pfff tell me about it, imagine you have to manage a whole bunch of them :S

      Oh well, once you've explained everything a million time you only need to hire someone for quality control.
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    • Profile picture of the author Adie
      Originally Posted by yukon View Post

      Creating content/links/sites is easier than babysitting a VA.
      If you can code, promote, build backlinks for 10 to 20 sites then go ahead...
      If you are surrounded by spam software of course you don't need a VA....
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  • Profile picture of the author Mike Grant
    Originally Posted by Adie View Post

    Blog mass commenting, forum mass posting, and other services that involves blasting, mass submissions, and other multiple postings at a time are useless.
    And that's where I stopped reading from LOL'ing too hard.
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  • Profile picture of the author the_viking
    What's a VA?
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    • Profile picture of the author yukon
      Banned
      Originally Posted by the_viking View Post

      What's a VA?
      VA = Virtual Assistant

      Basically hiring someone to do the things you don't want to do, usually boring/simple repetitive jobs.
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  • A skilled VA can help you business grow and save you time. Some VAs are better than others - you just need to find one that meets your requirements. VAs can submit your site to web directories, write content, plan events, and help you build a strong online presence.
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    -> Get Profile Backlinks here
    -> #1 Virtual Assistant Service Hire Your Own Virtual Assistant To Work JUST For You
    -> Ezine Articles Service Let Us Build Your Article Portfolio Today!
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  • Profile picture of the author mosthost
    What a fantastic thread, filled with totally unbiased comments
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    • Profile picture of the author nik0
      Banned
      Originally Posted by mosthost View Post

      What a fantastic thread, filled with totally unbiased comments
      Oh you rather read comments from people who have not worked with dozens of VA's, makes perfect sense :rolleyes:
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      • Profile picture of the author mosthost
        Originally Posted by nik0 View Post

        Oh you rather read comments from people who have not worked with dozens of VA's, makes perfect sense :rolleyes:
        You've become quite the sarcastic back-biter, haven't you? I was referring to people who are promoting their own VA services.
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  • Profile picture of the author nik0
    Banned
    Well, even if they promote their own services they have quiet a few good points in their posts. Especially this John guy, he doesn't promote his self, he sends them to job sites in the Phillipines:

    "Finding quality VAs takes time and you have to know where to look. Have you tried bestjobs.ph or onlinejobs.ph? And you also have to remember that VAs are employees. You have to give them specific instructions, motivate them, encourage them, challenge them, and pay them well if you want them to do their best."

    And MrsVA isn't saying that bad things either.

    Yes I'm quiet a sarcastic back-biter
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  • Profile picture of the author Kenrick C
    Hiring and training VAs in the Philippines are time consuming. You have to give them step by step instructions and create their weekly assignments. Power outages, computer problems, dengue, and other excuses pop up from time to time. When you have to adjust your strategy by making changes, you will be reminded how painful hiring and training VAs are; because you more than likely will have to train your VAs again or hire replacements.

    I have had more bad VAs than good ones. Some of the VAs who turned out to be bad; were good in the beginning. A few weeks, some of your VAs are good as gold. Then all of a sudden their work quality and timeliness, decline substantially. Other VAs are lemons from the beginning and no matter how much they tell you that they need the work to pay their bills and support their family and how religious and righteous they are; their work ethic and deliverables produced are just as bad as when they first started. Then finally, there are your gems who successfully complete their work on time consistently.

    Good article writers are hard to find; even though many of them state that they are experts in English and served as an editor for "X" - fill in the blank. The only good one I found thus far, did not complete his work on time. I believe he had multiple writing jobs. Although his work quality was excellent, I had to let him go after he continued to turn in his work late after three warnings.

    In the long run, I believe using VAs is still worthwhile due to amount of man hours you can receive for the monthly investment. However, you must be prepared to deal with the minuses and realize outsourcing does not necessarily free up your time; because there are hidden time consuming traps that will appear once you start.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
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      • Profile picture of the author Kenrick C
        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

        Only reason Americans or Europeans wouldn't give you a list of excuses too is because they laugh in your face when they hear the pay and so never become VAs. Seems like most people don't even think of the idea of incentives. All you can read on the main board is how much is enough or too much.

        The funny part is the total contradiction between what people say they want out of their VAs and their expectation for them to continue being good VAs. Why would they be?

        We want the VAs to be smart, fluent in reading and writing english, have good internet connection and be tech savvy.

        All the things that will make them know with the world wide web right in front of them that they are being paid a dog's salary by Western standards. Frankly if they are really smart they stay with you long enough to learn your system , keywords and SEO strategies and then go and outrank you. They speak really good English and can say "see ya suckers" good too.
        The VAs list their own salary on onlinejobs.ph. Plus, their pay although low compared to Western standards is really good in their country. Also, cost of living in the Philippines is a lot lower than in the US. I could live very comfortably off of $1000 a month in the Philippines.

        The same could be said for the multi-billion dollar IT outsourcing companies based in India. Their Global Delivery Models provide Fortune 100-1000 clients with up to 40% savings leveraging tech savvy workers from India.

        The pay in India and cost of living are not nearly as high as Western standards as well. That is why outsourcing is popular in third world countries due to factors including labor arbitrage.

        Most of my VAs from the Philippines, do not have the ambition, know how, or financial means to become one of my competitors.
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        • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
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          • Profile picture of the author Kenrick C
            Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

            Yeah but none of that changes the fact that if they are smart they can make more. nada. I've heard it all before but if you don't put in some incentive for your VAs to make more as you do then the bright ones move on. Westerners simply assume the people who start out and fizzle are unreliable or have character issues when at least in some of the smart cases its just that you don't float their boat anymore so they take on other customers as well or just take a hike on you.


            The VAs signed up to complete jobs at their desired pay scale. It is up to them to honor their agreements or skip out on them completely for whatever the reason may be.

            Huge difference you are missing is that the workers can't wake up one morning put up a website and reproduce what the fortune 100-1000 client does. the VA in many cases can put up a website with the same content that his internet marketing VA employer does. He ought to because he wrote the content

            The reference to Fortune 100-1000 companies is not regarding the ability for workers in third world countries to produce websites. It is in reference to these workers knowing that they are not paid as much as their counterparts in Western countries. The GDM models consist of a lower percentage of foreign workers working onsite at client sites while most of their counterparts work in their native countries.

            So why would these workers in India and the Philippines happily work for lower pay relative to their Western counterparts? Maybe because their pay is really good for them in their countries and they are happy to have a job when most of their fellow citizens are living in poverty.


            No on needs to be informed of that. We all know that.


            LOL. Well yes "your VAs from phillipines" because you have pretty much indicated that your VAs have mostly stunk. I wouldn't try and make that as a sweeping standard for phillipines VAs or you would pretty much indicate a good bit or racism/nationalism. on your part.

            My VAs are not the same as all VAs in the Philippines. I know all of my VAs well and we chat about their lives in general. I have even visited a few of them this summer when I went to Boracay and Manila.

            thats not even a coherent point anyway. They are supposedly smart to be good enough to write good content that represents your interest and company well. Frankly you don't know diddly about their ambition. You only know how they have responded to your pay scale and their not being gung ho with your job might in fact indicate precisely that - terrific ambition which last time I checked indicates wanting more.

            I know about my VAs ambition because I always ask them about their goals and take the time to teach them about the purpose of their jobs for their personal development. Like I stated earlier, the VAs on onlinejobs.ph list their desired salary, job, and working hours.
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            • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
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              • Profile picture of the author Kenrick C
                Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                Every week there are people in all kinds of professions in every country that quit when they FEEL they are being taken and they sign up as well for the pay scale to whatever job they are doing. The fact that people agree to a pay scale doesn't at all mean that you won't generally get what you pay for especially when they actually start doing the work.



                Thats simple and elementary. they can't relocate whereas if their job is building websites they CAN create them in their own country or find greener pastures with others that can employ them right where they are.

                I won't go any further except to say most Imers claims that their pay is so great for their VAs have never lived in a third world country and don't understand that truly poor people in those countries would neither own or know how to operate a computer. They also seem oblivious to the class systems within the countries that see people live better than middle class americans.

                So the idea that all they aspire to is to be out of poverty is false. the really educated ones have much higher goals that will take them away from lower paying jobs.

                If that were not a fact then these people would hold on to the jobs with both hands and be proud of working them. The fact that people can barely find Good Vas or hold on to them proves the point that the pay is not as great as Imers claim. Work incentive is about pay so if you are not having a good experience look first at the incentives you give.

                Anyway..... Imers are entrenched in their ideas on this subject as if its their right to pay little and nothing so thats all I have to say on it.
                I believe you are making an assumption that these VAs are getting exploited because their pay is lower than those in Western countries.

                You must realize that several workers feel that they are underpaid even those in the US.

                However, the market dictates how much money a person can acquire for his or her services or abilities. So one VA can earn 5000 PHP a month while another can earn 80,000 PHP a month.

                It is up to the worker to accept the job or not.

                Also, each worker can quit when he or she wants and can be replaced by another candidate at any time.

                The definition of what is a good VA varies from person to person. My standards are a lot higher than most.

                Just because most of the VAs I dealt with did not meet my standards, does not mean I do not have success with outsourcing.

                I just replaced those VAs until I found the VAs I liked. There are more VAs available in the Philippines than there are jobs. And it is going to stay that way for many more years.

                All of my VAs are poor and have been able to work odd end jobs at places like Jollibee or in a call center to save money to purchase a laptop with mobile Internet.

                In fact, one of my VAs showed me her mother's home yesterday via Skype video chat that was heavily damaged by a sendong and most of the kitchen's wall and roof were destroyed.

                Likewise, she was using 4000 PHP of her monthly salary to have the wall and roof repaired a little at a time.

                For my good VAs, I provide them with incentives or extra money for their excellent work from time to time. I gave one of my VAs 8000 PHP so she could buy a round trip plane ticket to Manila instead of spending 7 days on a boat, purchased a new laptop for another VA for 22,000 PHP, and gave another VA a pay raise so she can keep the electricity on in her parent's house since her father passed away.
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                • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                  Originally Posted by Kenrick C View Post

                  I believe you are making an assumption that these VAs are getting exploited because their pay is lower than those in Western countries.
                  Of course many are. I can't tell you that you are but yes many are and with the very rationale that you gave - since they live in country where people are poor they ought to happy that they are working. However my point is that if you have more bad experiences than good then you ought to look at your incentives. SO I am not just preaching but talking practicalities.


                  All of my VAs are poor and have been able to work odd end jobs at places like Jollibee or in a call center to save money to purchase a laptop with mobile Internet.
                  Sorry but you continue to misunderstand the word poor in terms of third world countries. the Poor do not work at call centers to save money to buy laptops. they use it to eat. Frankly alot of the people at that site you keep mentioning are kids just out of college still living with their parents. Doesn't take a genius to figure out they would tend be less reliable.

                  Like I said I can't tell whether you exploit your VAs but there is no doubt that some Imers do and use some of the same excuses. Frankly many have the idea that they should pay about what they pay for a monthly use of SenukeX give or take a $100 So its rent a human being and get rich mentality and I have no sympathy for when it doesn't work out for them. They richly deserve that it doesn't.

                  Whenever you talk about how low you can pay a human being rather than whats fair or you can truly afford you are being a lousy human being and what goes around comes around.
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              • Profile picture of the author nik0
                Banned
                Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                Thats simple and elementary. they can't relocate whereas if their job is building websites they CAN create them in their own country or find greener pastures with others that can employ them right where they are.

                I won't go any further except to say most Imers claims that their pay is so great for their VAs have never lived in a third world country and don't understand that truly poor people in those countries would neither own or know how to operate a computer. They also seem oblivious to the class systems within the countries that see people live better than middle class americans.

                So the idea that all they aspire to is to be out of poverty is false. the really educated ones have much higher goals that will take them away from lower paying jobs.

                If that were not a fact then these people would hold on to the jobs with both hands and be proud of working them. The fact that people can barely find Good Vas or hold on to them proves the point that the pay is not as great as Imers claim. Work incentive is about pay so if you are not having a good experience look first at the incentives you give.

                Anyway..... Imers are entrenched in their ideas on this subject as if its their right to pay little and nothing so thats all I have to say on it.
                Yep, reality check, the poor ones might make $100/month with a job as fisherman or something like that, and those are not the ones that have a computer let alone an internet connection in their homes. Instead they often live packed with 6-8 people in a small house.

                What you see with a lot of VA's is that you're actually not dealing with the VA's itself but with their manager, I'm not talking about the large firms like in Vietnam but more people who have rich parents. Who take the job and let their friends work from their home or they rent a small office and take care of it there. So while you think you deal with the guy who does the "actual" work you are often somewhat betrayed. I think this is also the cause of the many mistakes and the many misunderstandings, their English is often not that great and they have to explain the job to their workers so with the translation a lot of the information can get lost.

                Lately I had a guy from China, asked him to install 50+ websites for me, he quoted me $4,-/site but I didn't want to pay more then $1.50-2.00, simple math is that he could do all those sites in 1-2 days and then still it would be paid extremely well. But no way that he was gonna do it for that money. Probably had some rich dad lol.

                Also what I notice and that we had some quiet heated discussions about is that the VA managers don't see it as their duty to quality control the work of their workers so there you go again.

                I think if you really want to find a good VA who can do many tasks in a reliable way that you have to think about $600-700/month to make it worth it for them but what do most IM'ers think then? Oh fine $600-700 no problem but then they have to work at least 80hrs a week for me.

                Sure there are exceptions but this is how it indeed works most of the time.
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      • Profile picture of the author slix
        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

        Only reason Americans or Europeans wouldn't give you a list of excuses too is because they laugh in your face when they hear the pay and so never become VAs. Seems like most people don't even think of the idea of incentives. All you can read on the main board is how much is enough or too much.

        The funny part is the total contradiction between what people say they want out of their VAs and their expectation for them to continue being good VAs. Why would they be?

        We want the VAs to be smart, fluent in reading and writing english, have good internet connection and be tech savvy.

        All the things that will make them know with the world wide web right in front of them that they are being paid a dog's salary by Western standards. Frankly if they are really smart they stay with you long enough to learn your system , keywords and SEO strategies and then go and outrank you. I mean its not like they don' t know all your link resources right? They speak really good English and can say "see ya suckers" good too.
        I couldn't have said it better myself :-) I worked for a certain USA based SEO company for almost a year as a VA. Unfortunately, I lost my job a couple of weeks ago due to some unforeseen circumstances (not related to me) and after checking out hourly rates on Odesk for VA jobs (like $2 per hour) combined with huge number of applicants...I realized something is clearly wrong with that picture :-)

        Even though I am not a native speaker, I certainly value my time more than $2/hour. If you are looking for a person who:

        - speaks/writes fairly good English
        - is experienced using various SEO methods/tools
        - can write/rewrite articles for w/e purpose
        - will take care of your sites like it's their own
        - is up to date on SEO
        - is able to send reports on a daily/weekly basis along with new ideas
        - and the list goes on...

        ...be prepare to pay more than $320/month ($2/hour x 40h/week)
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  • Profile picture of the author bsbear
    Don't they cost a lot though, compared to a one time payment for software?
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  • Profile picture of the author gearmonkey
    I use Magic Submitter. Problem solved =)
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    My Guitar Website | My SEO Blog - Advertising spots available.

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  • Profile picture of the author Aaron Autrey
    hey Adie, if you find a good NON spammy VA for blog commenting, please let me know. It's good, targeted traffic.
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    The good thing about this business is that "People don't succeed cause they aim too high and miss, no, they aim too low... and hit. Most people don't aim at all." (Les Brown)

    Not us... Not marketers. We live far above mediocrity. Always keep this in mind at all times..

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  • Profile picture of the author jasono
    It might not always be the case. First, you have to make sure that your VA doesn't do any spammy techniques and strategies. Two of the best sites to look for good VAs: onlinejobs.ph and directory.outsourcingautopilot.com
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    Learn how to make more money using outsourcing and virtual assistants while freeing up your valuable time. Visit http://outsourcingautopilot.com

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  • Profile picture of the author sofia25433
    Yeah, This topic is great,
    you can check this topic: http://www.warriorforum.com/warrior-...ml#post6790117

    Only $170 / month, I had 3 VA from this guy, his service is pretty good, I enjoyed working with him,
    I think you should negotiate and have a ticket,
    Good luck,
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  • Profile picture of the author nik0
    Banned
    Lol you still want to negotiate about $170/month or am I misunderstanding you
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  • Profile picture of the author mandos123
    All the guys who think tha VA is way to go.. Dont you think that high pr links are way to go? I mean seriously, you can spend that $300 for link rentings or private networks. Instead of building thousand and thousand of worthless n/a links day after day..
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  • Profile picture of the author Trevor
    Nice share Adie and you are right.

    Profile links, web directory links and other low-profile backlinks are useless these times, especially after the Penguin update. They may serve as 3-tier or 2-tier backlinks for indexation purposes, but for rankings they are pretty much worthless.

    Mass submission is not the way to go anymore. The game has changed and we, SEOs, have to adjust in order to survive.

    What works nowadays is high-PR backlinks from within content (that always worked) and generally in-content links. The higher the PR the better.

    As always quality is more important than quantity, that's why it's not advisable to do these mass submission and mass comments anymore. You won't get any SEO bonus from doing so and it can even do harm to your site.

    EDIT: Of course it's also important to diversify your backlinking profile, don't be after just one type of backlinks.
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  • Profile picture of the author marketwarrior06
    Banned
    That's the thing I love. I think if you hire some good people to help you in maintaining your online projects and to do the back linking projects for you then you are going to be lucky. Yes, It will cost you a little more than the software. but in the long run there will never be any kind of problem.
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  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    People always want a Cadillac with a Ford Pinto budget.

    Good luck with the maintenance.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kenrick C
    My three best VAs who have been with me the longest are the ones with the lowest monthly salary of $200, $150, and $120, respectively; salaries they listed on their onlinejobs.ph profile.

    I paid them a month in advance to build trust and continue to pay them a month in advance. I pay all of my established VAs a month in advance.

    However, I have been burned by others after I paid them a month in advance.

    Nonetheless, my top three VAs conduct data entry type work and do not write or rewrite articles.

    I provided each of them with at least four weeks of paid training via videos I recorded and 1 on 1 training using Skype video, ScreenLeap and Skype audio, and/or GoToWebinar; depending on their Internet connection at the time. Training is ongoing since I teach them new things from time to time.

    They complete their work on time everyday and if they have a problem, they let me know in advance via email or Skype. Around pay day, they typically ask me about the quality of their work.

    Granted I do not monitor the amount of hours they work but I believe the two lowest paid work at least 20-30 hours a week; which depends on their productivity.

    The one who is paid $200 a month works close to 40 hours a week.

    The one who is paid $120 a month, runs SEO Spyglass, export the data into a text file, open it in Excel, mentions how I can get a link from each of the sites with high PR, and emails me these spreadsheets each day.

    Once SEO Spyglass is running, she also creates the weekly assignment for my $150 a month VA and checks this VA's daily work. This $120 month VA also knows how to post on forums, leave blog comments, and post articles on Web 2.0, pdf, and edu blogs/wikis.

    The $150 a month VA takes articles from ArticleBuilder, inserts natural keyword anchors, insert images, and manually posts them on Web 2.0s., pdf sharing, and edu sites. She makes 35 posts a day. She creates tier links that lowers the overall percentage of my keyword anchor links.

    My $200 a month VA sets up campaigns using Magic Submitter (she used Senuke X in the past) for lower tier link building and will eventually start adding the MS links created into GSA Rank Tracker next month.

    I provide her with the articles she uses each week for these campaigns.

    Once the campaigns have been setup, she manually builds blog comments to my top tier links; like press release links.

    She knows how to use the Alive Link checker and how to check the PR of my tier links using ScrapeBox.

    My bad experiences with VAs predominantly came from those who required a lot higher monthly salary. This is a strange occurrence that I cannot explain.
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  • Profile picture of the author infoleather
    You have to give them specific instructions to motivate them, encourage them, challenge them, and their pay, if you want them to do their best.
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    Having some type of Leather double handle briefcase to hold your products in so that your Retro leather shoulder bags valuables are secure from the weather conditions is really important.

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  • Profile picture of the author MaryPabelate
    Banned
    It would be better if you have a small office working some employees with you..
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  • Profile picture of the author Henri Lind
    I had the same thing, wasted a lot of money on services. Better to hire a VA
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